The folks behind The Silver Lining sent their near completed fan sequel to Activision for approval only to receive a C&D. More info on the official website:
http://www.tsl-game.com/
I was not really interested in that game but what a major bummer. :(
May it be a lesson to whoever is currently working on a fan game: When your project is doing fine, remove your web appearance a bit, keep a low profile, and release your game when it's ready and on all channels so it can't be stopped anymore, and for the sake of your fans and everyone who invested countless hours on your project, stop looking for official approval.
Damn Activision, for a while a now I haven't agreed with their business protocols. All they care about is money, they are currently worse than Electronic Arts. At least Vivendi had the heart to let them develop the project. All Activision cares about his churning out Guitar Hero games.
This is really sad news :-[
They worked on it for years, I really hope it's not the end.
And I don't see how, even if all Activision cares about is money, how will they lose money if they let the game to be published?
I simply don't understand their decision...
This might be a good time to download the AGDI KQ and QFG remakes (http://www.agdinteractive.com/games/games.html), just in case...
Yeah, this is a shame, even if the game didn't exactly appeal to me, and even if they'd already decided they were only going to make the first third of it. (Why anyone would play the first third of a story-driven game that you know will never be completed is beyond me, but whatever.)
Stuff like this is the consequence of trying to play in a sandbox that belongs to a big media company. Fan-game-makers should pick the approach they are comfortable with and be prepared to deal with the consequences: one possible consequence of asking for permission is that they'll say no.
One point, though: when they got permission from Vivendi, the guys behind the KQ9 project bragged that their strategy had worked. Create so much buzz around the project that Vivendi wouldn't dare to shut them down for fear of bad press. At the time I thought that was a pretty underhanded thing to do. Maybe Activision thought so too and decided not to play along. In that case I would say they got what they deserved. Of course, it's the fans whose anticipation was built up and exploited who pay the price.
I didn't realise the developers did that. Either way eight years of production down the drain. That would leave me rather tainted, and well there is the lesson to be learnt in not making fan made sequels.
Indeed quite a bummer to waste 8 years of making the game and then it ends like this.
I still think there is a good chance for getting away with fan made sequels (even for Sierra games). They just need to be short, simple , done quickly, and without any media buzz. With a bit of luck the IP holder won't even notice the game exists (or just lets it be).
Devoting years of work to a project you don't ultimately have any right to be making seems like an awful waste of time. They could have easily made a game in the spirit of King's Quest, and done so safe in the knowledge that no one could take it away from them.
It's no rocket science:
1 - Reduce or remove your web appearance when your team is self-sufficient.
2 - Looking for official approval is begging to get your work crushed.
3 - When the game is done, release it, nothing will ever stop it, if you receive a C&D, it will simply appears on rapidshare and torrent websites.
4 - If you're so scared of legal actions, stop putting your real name all over your game and website in the first place.
Why nobody is doing this I have no idea.
Quote from: blueskirt on Mon 01/03/2010 00:33:22
2 - Looking for official approval is begging to get your work crushed.
The TSL team didn't look for an official approval until Vivendi demanded they either hand in the final version just for that or the project is screwed. But it's the media buzz aroudn the game that led to that I think.
It's things like this that really makes me wonder why no one will launch some kind of Public-Domain or Creative Commons based game series franchise. Launch their own original majestic works, so that large projects like these don't get shut down.
Space Quest 7, now this.
Like Reality on the Norm, you mean?
Most video game publishers will hold onto the rights for many older games purely so they can keep re-releasing them to make more money out of them. Nostalgia will always lead to more sales. Or you get reboots that turn to absolute crap like the Larry series (poor Al Lowe).
This is such a shame. :(
I was so looking forward to this game, and the KQ9 team must be devastated after all the years of work the poured into it. :'(
I really don't understand why Activision have done this. They have shown no interest in making an 'official' KQ sequeal, so what possible harm can this freeware game do?
It's a very difficult situation as you can see it from both sides. As much as I hate to see freeware projects like these get C&D's, the original developers are well within their rights to do so, not that I could see Activision doing anything with this series. Baffling.
You should all make Star Trek games, no one seems to care about them :D
Joystiq.com have also put an article up about this sad story.
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/28/activision-shuts-down-fan-made-kings-quest-sequel/
Simple solution: Change all the character's names ;)
Was talking to a guy involved with the project on MSN this morning. His summary was that the TSL crew were way too keen on trying to get their project endorsed as the official KQ9, following the SQ7 path (after THAT went so well ::)) and had even been pursuing a contract for a commercial release with Vivendi and then Activision. If that isn't asking for trouble, I don't know what is.
It's a damned shame, but I find it hard to see the TSL team as blameless. Activision are the same guys who cut loose titles they had halfway through development with the excuse that they weren't 'titles that could be exploited every year', in those exact words (!). For people who haven't been following the mainstream gaming news too often, Activision have taken over EA's place as the 'big bads' of the marketplace, the Microsofts of game publishing.
So to present them with any choice of a) Impart some effort into helping us with our project or b) Getting your lawyer to send a fax that has 8 million precedents, you shouldn't be surprised when this happens.
I have to say Vivendi were unusually reasonable, and nobody should make the assumptiont that that somehow signalled a shift in the viewpoints of publishers out there. I think if anything they were the exception that proved the rule. If you've got a fangame project, keep it under wraps. Just like I do.
Quote from: 'Phemar'Simple solution: Change all the character's names
There's already talk about that, funnily enough...
Quote from: Phemar on Mon 01/03/2010 04:40:23
Simple solution: Change all the character's names ;)
Honestly...
It would be such a waste to throw it all out. Change what needs to be changed and I'm sure they'd still have a very nice game, unofficial as it may be.
Interesting post, Jared.
I don't know for you but I suddently don't have any sympathy left for the TSL crew or at least whoever thought it would be a good idea to play russian roulette with other people's hope and work in exchange for endorsement from Activision.
On the subject of changing the character names, while it's better than trashing the entire thing, it's not that simple, they would certainly have to change some character design and record new lines to fit the new names. But if they went out of their way to be recognized as official KQ9, it's very unlikely they'll opt for that solution.
From what I remember of the snippets of the story that were posted years ago, it was so closely tied in to the "mythology" of the KQ universe that it would probably be hopeless to extricate it.
It would be like if Lucas had somehow lost the rights to Star Wars in the middle of filming the prequel movies. Sure, he could probably have rewritten the story and made it not be about Obi-Wan and Anakin and Palpatine and Luke & Leia's mom, but what would be the point?
QuoteOne point, though: when they got permission from Vivendi, the guys behind the KQ9 project bragged that their strategy had worked. Create so much buzz around the project that Vivendi wouldn't dare to shut them down for fear of bad press. At the time I thought that was a pretty underhanded thing to do. Maybe Activision thought so too and decided not to play along. In that case I would say they got what they deserved. Of course, it's the fans whose anticipation was built up and exploited who pay the price.
Erm...I personally think that the effectiveness of that "strategy" was blown way out of proportion by the internet community, especially by the folks who organised the petition. VU didn't shut down TSL earlier to destroy any fan-work containing IP they owned, they approached them to stop unauthorized use...but I believe the willingness to work something out was there from the start with VU. In the end, TSL got the very same agreement AGDI got (and accepted) and SQ7 got (and rejected). Neither AGDI nor SQ7 had a mass of fans write a petition in order to broker an agreement and I personally believe TSL would have gotten their fan license regardless of any petitions. Of course, it was in VU's interests to pretend the petition tipped the scales, since it suggests only fan projects with an extremely large following can get a fan license, reducing the possibility of other projects approaching them for a similar license.
QuoteWas talking to a guy involved with the project on MSN this morning. His summary was that the TSL crew were way too keen on trying to get their project endorsed as the official KQ9, following the SQ7 path (after THAT went so well ) and had even been pursuing a contract for a commercial release with Vivendi and then Activision. If that isn't asking for trouble, I don't know what is.
I heard a similar rumor once and I can see how that complicates matters because if a fan project is pushed as a commercial proposal, it stops being a fan project in the IP holder's eyes and thus if that commercial proposal is rejected by the IP holder, the proposer can't easily say: "Well, too bad, we'll just publish the project under the fan license you already granted us" without the risk of consequences. I don't know what I would have done in their place, since it was already established the only way for the project to get all its planned chapters out of the door (rather than just the first two) was if it WOULD go the commercial route.
As for changing the names, it's not that easy. Especially the first chapter takes place in the same country as KQ6...complete with characters and landmarks from that game. Changing names would be like selling homemade drawings of Mickey or Donald, but calling them Roger and Steve...a rose by any other name and all that stuff.
As for AGDI...we obtained reluctant permission from Activision to continue for the time being around the time VU Games and Activision were still in the process of merging and by that time all our projects were already released in some form, so as long as TSL fans don't go out of their way to drag AGDI into it by writing letters to Activision saying stuff like "Why are you letting AGDI off the hook and not TSL?", I think we'll be fine, though I'd be lying if I said this whole thing doesn't create a slight sense of anxiety with me.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashum.jpg)
This whole thing sounds really fishy to me...
I think it's either a meek and compliant acquiescence to the C&D so they can work on it "under the radar" and then it will magically "leak" onto the interwebs (and be impossible to contain) or, and I find this the more likely scenario, they are [after 8 years] sick of the project and are using the C&D as an excuse to stop production that the fan(s) will accept.
Personally, if it were my project, I'd tell Activision to suck it and keep making it.
Or I'd do something really smart-ass like change the title to "Keeng's Quest" or "Queen's Husband's Quest" and change some spellings throughout the game and make the enemies a bunch of idiots in a stupidity cult called "Lack o' Vision".
Meh ... to be honest I don't care either way as I wasn't going to play the game (most likely) anyway.
I just can't stand big corporations pulling stunts like this.
And I was convinced that people understood by now that, if you're making a fangame, telling the owing company is the worst thing to do possibly...
Sad news, indeed! It reminds me of Crimson Echoes, last year: another fangame that was weeks away from its full release.
Quote from: Snarky on Mon 01/03/2010 06:49:19
It would be like if Lucas had somehow lost the rights to Star Wars in the middle of filming the prequel movies. Sure, he could probably have rewritten the story and made it not be about Obi-Wan and Anakin and Palpatine and Luke & Leia's mom, but what would be the point?
Ironically, Star Wars was made precisely because George Lucas wanted to tell a
Flash Gordon story that he didn't have the rights for.
Quote from: Erpy on Mon 01/03/2010 11:24:45
As for AGDI...we obtained reluctant permission from Activision to continue for the time being around the time VU Games and Activision were still in the process of merging and by that time all our projects were already released in some form, so as long as TSL fans don't go out of their way to drag AGDI into it by writing letters to Activision saying stuff like "Why are you letting AGDI off the hook and not TSL?", I think we'll be fine, though I'd be lying if I said this whole thing doesn't create a slight sense of anxiety with me.
Hopefully what's happened with TSL won't impact upon AGDI. That said, I do hope you're putting plans in place if they do.
What ever happened to original ideas?
Quote from: Xenogia on Mon 01/03/2010 01:12:35
Most video game publishers will hold onto the rights for many older games purely so they can keep re-releasing them to make more money out of them.
As is their right. I don't see why the fan community thinks it has any claim over something they don't own, created by somebody else. If a publisher wants to sit on an IP and let it rot, then that's their decision.
Fan games don't interest me. I just don't see the appeal of continuing a story you didn't start in the first place, with characters who aren't your own.
If you must ape somebody else's work, make it an
homage. At least then it will belong to you.
How'd the guys from the "Quest For Glory 4.5" game get away with it? That game had lots of questionable content, and if there was ever a target for a C&D order they would be an understandable target.
They were shut down as far as I recall.
The weekly fan games shouldn't be Well, all fan games have the urge to go commercial and go for approval, because it feels to work on something really big. And that's the emotion that leads to all the choices that kills them. I'm using my name in this game, but I'm not going to tell anyone about it, at least anyone important..oh okay..a lawyer or a company that owns the right.
With me it's sort of different because no company owns the rights to this game anymore, and their tracks are lost to be honest. I've made a huge effort to find who has them, but no go.
Honestly, the biggest surprise (for me at least) was that this project was even still around in the first place! 10 years is a long time for any project, even a freeware one, although it looks like they were getting somewhere with the episodic thing.
Here's a funny anecdote. Back in 2003, the KQ9 team were holding voice over auditions for the game here in New York, so I figured I'd go. In chatting with the people there, it was obvious that most everyone there already knew each other from the KQ9 forums. The auditions seemed to be merely an excuse for them all to meet. They were a bit surprised that a complete stranger (me) had shown up. Some of these guys had flown clear across the country to attend, and others even came from other countries. I think I had traveled the shortest distance out of anybody there.
Anyway, that's the impression I got of the project as a whole. That it became more of a community of people hanging out rather than a group dedicated to finishing a game. Still, it's a crying shame that it was shut down so abruptly after being given the green light. What a bait and switch. Hopefully they will move onto to bigger and better things.
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Mon 01/03/2010 21:18:53
Hopefully they will move onto to bigger and better things.
20 years? :D
Quote from: Dave Gilbert on Mon 01/03/2010 21:18:53
Anyway, that's the impression I got of the project as a whole. That it became more of a community of people hanging out rather than a group dedicated to finishing a game.
Hey, we call it Mittens, they call it Auditions
The statement on their website makes it sound like Activision asked to see it after having bought Vivendi as part of some ongoing struggle, as opposed to them sending it voluntarily.
What bothers me is that you just know that Activision C&D'd it because some unsalaried secretary was given the game and a list of "Properties we own but you haven't heard of because you weren't born" and she saw "King's Quest" on the list and saw "King's Quest" on the game and said "nurr durr" and ticked her little C&D box.
Bile thusly ejected at the machinations of corporation I'd like to point out that I wasn't going to play the game anyway. I suppose I'm just irritated by the logic of Activision. I understand the principles of protecting IP but they're missing a big PR and publicity opportunity here. And it's not as if the King's Quest IP does anything but occasionally generate a slither of sales from the retro collection anthology, and it's not as if a fangame and carefully plotted press releases about games that inspired decades of fanaticism would increase their revenues from those, right...
It's so weird this happens.
I mean one of the most surefire ways to make your game properties endure and keep people interested is by ENCOURAGING people to make their own fan-made content. And these guys are so willing to go around expressing their love for this old, dusty franchise they spent eight years making this whole thing from scratch without a mod tool or graphics resource in sight to help them.
It seems counter-intuitive to pass up that kind of free, powerful endorsement that had so much potential to rekindle interest in this ancient intellectual property they just have lying around.
Just another example of an old company not understanding how the online fan-networks can benefit them... just like the music industry I guess.
Quote from: Eggie on Mon 01/03/2010 22:33:48Just another example of an old company not understanding how the online fan-networks can benefit them... just like the music industry I guess.
Amen brother. Amen.
I blame the Devs for dragging their feet because:
1. If you can't finish a game in 8 years! something is very wrong.
2. They knew Vivendi was merging, why didn't they finish things up before the new company came into the picture.
That game was Vaporware, never to be finished, endlessly in development, by way of Duke Nukem Forever.
Think of it this way.
If a company YOU own makes a successful series of games and then an outsider comes in and makes an unofficial sequel, your beloved series will always be associated with that from then on. It was THEIR series of games (despite being handed over) and they had every right to do what they did.
When I was younger I made a series of amateur horror films. Four in fact, and uploaded them to the internet. A couple of months later another amateur group decided they wanted to make a 5th instalment. Bear in mind there would be no financial gain for either of us, I still said no to them. The reason being it was MY series of films and I made them how I wanted.
That's just my opinion on it.
Quote from: DazJ on Tue 02/03/2010 11:14:58
Think of it this way.
If a company YOU own makes a successful series of games and then an outsider comes in and makes an unofficial sequel, your beloved series will always be associated with that from then on. It was THEIR series of games (despite being handed over) and they had every right to do what they did.
When I was younger I made a series of amateur horror films. Four in fact, and uploaded them to the internet. A couple of months later another amateur group decided they wanted to make a 5th instalment. Bear in mind there would be no financial gain for either of us, I still said no to them. The reason being it was MY series of films and I made them how I wanted.
That's just my opinion on it.
Well there is a difference, they made a Broken sword fan game, nobody associated that from there on as a part of the series, just a good fan game.
But if you really feel that strongly about it why not overlook the project or add something to it or at least look it over to decide if it follow's the spirit or the idea of a project, that way you give your project a boost. Since when should a company like Activison or similar be afraid of a fan a game of an old adventure game.
Maybe they shouldn't have named it KQ9, just something similar, that could've solved the problem maybe.
On your example, don't know what the actual conditions were, but as you described it now, that's just strange behaviour from you, if not selfish. But still, I don't know the whole story, just sayin' what it looks like to me from your description.
I can see why it came across as selfish but the reason was because it was MY work. I wouldn't want it tarnished by an inferior product.
We could discuss this forever but unfortunately, the license-holders are the ones who make the decisions.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 01/03/2010 16:49:15
I think it's either a meek and compliant acquiescence to the C&D so they can work on it "under the radar" and then it will magically "leak" onto the interwebs (and be impossible to contain) or, and I find this the more likely scenario, they are [after 8 years] sick of the project and are using the C&D as an excuse to stop production that the fan(s) will accept.
Personally, I think you've hit the nail squarely on the head there, 8 years with nothing to show but a demo must be seriously disheartening.
There is a petition (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetsl/) up now to save it but I would imagine it will accomplish exactly zero, being worth exactly the virtual paper it isn't written on.
Sad to see this one go.
Quote from: DazJ on Tue 02/03/2010 11:14:58If a company YOU own makes a successful series of games and then an outsider comes in and makes an unofficial sequel, your beloved series will always be associated with that from then on. It was THEIR series of games (despite being handed over) and they had every right to do what they did.
I completely understand what you're saying but I look at it this way:
Lack o' Vision ... er ... Activision, doesn't have
anything to do with King's Quest other than acquiring the company that acquired the company that was bought out by the company that made the game(s) 15-25 years ago. They ("they" is used loosely here) haven't released a KQ game since 1995 (I don't count VIII). If they were smart (which they appear not to be) they would bless this fan project that would/could/might rekindle some interest in products they have collecting dust.
I would like to think, though I find it
highly unlikely, that maybe (just maybe) they have some top-secret KQ project in the works which they are afraid this fan project might interfere with. Were I a betting man, though, I'd not put even a penny on such a wager.
Seems more like they are holding on to some antiquated idea of how to run a business that is not valid in the modern world. Granted since they are fighting a battle for a franchise that has been dead for 15 years I suppose it makes sense they would stick to a corporate mentality from that long ago as well.
Quote
Lack o' Vision ... er ... Activision, doesn't have anything to do with King's Quest other than acquiring the company that acquired the company that was bought out by the company that made the game(s) 15-25 years ago. They ("they" is used loosely here) haven't released a KQ game since 1995 (I don't count VIII). If they were smart (which they appear not to be) they would bless this fan project that would/could/might rekindle some interest in products they have collecting dust.
While it's easy to discount this whole thing as corporate mentality/stupidity, Activision isn't stupid. They've managed to surge ahead during a year where most of their contemporaries have gone out of business. So give them some credit. Let's play devil's advocate for a minute and see it from their point of view.
Sure, they haven't done anything with the King's Quest IP since they aquired it... but who's to say they won't do it some day? And if they ever do, they will want to do everything in their marketing power to associate the name "King's Quest" with Activision (or Sierra) and not some freeware company. By letting fan projects live now, it could potentially hurt them in the future.
I know that this is a verrry hypothetical (and unlikely) scenerio, but a company stays alive by thinking into the future and planning for every eventuality. I'm sure they looked at this situation from every angle to determine if it can hurt them in any way, however small.
I have nothing but sympathy for the TSL team and I can't imagine what they must be going through, but I can understand why Activision did it.
I can only wonder if the cynical responses would be the same were Fountain of Youth to get a visit from the Lucasarts lawyers -- or is m0ds somehow different because he is a member of these forums and a friend to some here? Seems to be a lot of negativity regarding the KQ9 team, anyway.
The only real criticism I can level at any author of a fangame is that they are making a fangame. Their idea may be magically delicious but at the end of the day they can take none of those characters and call them their own or rightfully sell their game or even make it donationware to profit in any way other than a pat on the back from some players and bile from others who didn't think the writing or story was 'true' to the source.
I'm not a fan of King's Quest but I can only imagine how much the KQ9 team loves the series to have spent 8 years trying to complete something. That's real dedication so I have some sympathy for any frustration they might be feeling.
Back when it seemed like the big adventure game series were dead forever, I'd say the companies were spoilsports, "what's the harm?" etc.
But the recent revival of the Monkey Island franchise after almost 10 years in limbo, and the rise of new game platforms that offer a new market for ports and remakes of old adventure games, must surely give pause to companies that had written off their back catalog.
So I do see Activision's side of this. And in a way, the more ambitious a fan game is, the more it threatens the company's control over the brand's image. If TSL came out, it seems like it would be hard to ever release an official KQ9.
I just noticed that the petition was put up on a site where you need to register in order to sign it.
Wow.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Tue 02/03/2010 14:23:53
I can only wonder if the cynical responses would be the same were Fountain of Youth to get a visit from the Lucasarts lawyers -- or is m0ds somehow different because he is a member of these forums and a friend to some here? Seems to be a lot of negativity regarding the KQ9 team, anyway.
I think it's just that there are some unanswered questions, or vague rumors, about the position of the TLS team in this situation. Where they interested in "official" status? Did they approach Activision with this idea of going legit (or possibly commercial)? And if so, did they bring on this C+D themselves? There's a lot of talk about negotiations and things that you wouldn't usually associate with a fan project. Was it a fan project, or did they just figure the more effort they put into it the more likely it was that they'd get paid for it in the end? Maybe the delays in releasing it were down to it's creators feeling that they didn't want to give it away for free any more.
Either way, I'd be interested in some clear answers.
But let's put a period here. Approaching a "faceless" commercial organization looking for some sort of validation on a project that infringes on a property they own is a bad idea. Nine times out of ten you'll be rejected, and to take that gamble so late into a project's lifetime is silly and reckless. You've just nailed your own coffin shut. Stay under the radar until your game is finished and out there, and
then consider any ramifications.
If you feel you must get some sort of approval before releasing a continuation of somebody else's work, then why not approach the original creator (in this case Roberta Williams) and ask if it's cool to do so. They might still say no, but you probably won't find yourself on the end of a legally binding C+D.
The Fountain of Youth is likely still alive because it hasn't been dropping it's pants in the LucasArts foyer. Personally, I think it's a colossal waste of time and talent, regardless of end quality, as it could be C+D'd whenever the mood happens to take George.
It's Russian roulette, but with five chambers filled.
Quote from: Radiant on Mon 01/03/2010 18:16:37
Sad news, indeed! It reminds me of Crimson Echoes, last year: another fangame that was weeks away from its full release.
Quote from: Snarky on Mon 01/03/2010 06:49:19
It would be like if Lucas had somehow lost the rights to Star Wars in the middle of filming the prequel movies. Sure, he could probably have rewritten the story and made it not be about Obi-Wan and Anakin and Palpatine and Luke & Leia's mom, but what would be the point?
Ironically, Star Wars was made precisely because George Lucas wanted to tell a Flash Gordon story that he didn't have the rights for.
Also, the appraised Watchmen was supposed to be starred by Regular DC characters
Quote from: mkennedy on Mon 01/03/2010 20:34:47
How'd the guys from the "Quest For Glory 4.5" game get away with it? That game had lots of questionable content, and if there was ever a target for a C&D order they would be an understandable target.
No, the real question is what happened to King's Quest: Breast Intentions :P
Quote from: DazJ on Tue 02/03/2010 11:14:58A couple of months later another amateur group decided they wanted to make a 5th instalment. Bear in mind there would be no financial gain for either of us, I still said no to them. The reason being it was MY series of films and I made them how I wanted.
The main difference is this: since you are the author, you have both the moral right and the legal right to do that. Since Activision is not the author (that would be Ken and Roberta), they still have the legal right, but whether they have the moral right is up to debate. Not that their lawyers would care.
Activision DO seem somewhat premenstrual at the moment. Anybody following what they're doing to Infinity Ward (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010/03/02/activision-decapitates-infinity-ward/), the team that just produced Modern Warfare 2 for them, only the title with the biggest launch revenue in entertainment history?
Edit: For those of you who can't be bothered to follow the link, I think Tim Schafer's comment on the Infinity Ward story can equally be applied to this TSL business:
QuoteGetting mad at Activision for this kind of thing is like getting mad at an ape for throwing feces. It's just how the beast communicates.
Activision, managing to piss off retro gamers and modern gamers simultaneously. That's 100% of gamers. Nice.
It would be nice if gamers deliberately boycotted Activision. But you know they own Blizzard and there are two many WoW addicts. I read an article just this morning on Kotaku that states 68% of their annual revenue comes from WoW, Guitar Hero and COD alone.. Haha, I guess that is why they are just going to keep churning out sequels.
Activision is also the company that sued Double Fine (http://weblogs.variety.com/the_cut_scene/2009/02/activision-brutal-legend-is-ours-ea-activision-is-a-jealous-exhusband.html) to stop the release of Brutal Legend, among other things I can't remember right now.
If this doesn't work out, hopefully one of the beta testers would be willing to share their latest build with other potential beta testers such as myself.
QuoteI think it's just that there are some unanswered questions, or vague rumors, about the position of the TLS team in this situation. Where they interested in "official" status? Did they approach Activision with this idea of going legit (or possibly commercial)? And if so, did they bring on this C+D themselves? There's a lot of talk about negotiations and things that you wouldn't usually associate with a fan project. Was it a fan project, or did they just figure the more effort they put into it the more likely it was that they'd get paid for it in the end? Maybe the delays in releasing it were down to it's creators feeling that they didn't want to give it away for free any more.
Either way, I'd be interested in some clear answers.
Were they interested in "official status"? Yep, but Vivendi took preemptive action and approached THEM instead. The fan license they got stated they could continue, but the IP holder (VU at the time, Activision after the merger) had to review the project before it was allowed to be released and if there was any content in there that the IP holder deemed shoddy or inappropriate that would have to be changed.
So the reason they contacted Activision was simply because they were contractually obliged to...releasing the game without approval would have gotten them sued for contract breach. They really had no choice in this. The negotiations spoken of were most likely the team trying to convince Activision to adopt it as a commercial endeavour instead of shutting it down. Which apparantly didn't work out.
The question of whether it was still a fan project or an attempt to become a commercial franchise...that's kinda 50/50. It's a fangame, but the director definitely planned to approach VU at some point and try to get it adopted as the definite conclusion of the series, rather than just another chapter...it was specifically written to tie up all loose ends the other games left hanging. They were hoping the first chapters would become a critical success and they'd have numbers to convince VU/AV there was an audience worthy of investing in, hence the team's focus on branding and promotion. Also, it turned out the initial screenplay was just way too large to be completed without funding. The game that was about to be released was the first 25% of the entire concept and the team mentioned the other chapters could only be finished in a timely fashion if they could rely on more than just volunteer work.
Did they bring the C&D upon themselves? No. VU told them 5 years ago that it was either cooperation or shutdown and when they got the first part of the project to the point where it was acceptable to submit, the new IP holder turned out to be both very unsupportive of fan efforts and very uninterested in providing the team with a commercial license.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashtell.jpg)
Quote from: Erpy on Tue 02/03/2010 23:30:28
Did they bring the C&D upon themselves? No. VU told them 5 years ago that it was either cooperation or shutdown and when they got the first part of the project to the point where it was acceptable to submit, the new IP holder turned out to be both very unsupportive of fan efforts and very uninterested in providing the team with a commercial license.
It's a mess; something that snowballed and became a legal nightmare.
On the one hand, this was just a fan game (or rather, it began life as a fan game), and as such should really have died at the first C+D, regardless of quality. Harsh, but that's the risk you take when you set out to make a fan game; how much time and effort you plan to devote to it is irrelevant. The Vivendi deal (which, as we know, came
after the C+D; Vivendi's initial approach was simply to shut them down) seemed to end up a poisoned chalice. Not only have they lost the ability to release the game, and even keep the TSL forums, but everything they worked on effectively belongs to Activision.
Like I said before, to enter into a project of this magnitude (or to let it get to such a level) without foreseeing the possibility of having the rug pulled out from under you, and being able to say "fine" and walk away from it, is crazy. They should have let it go five years ago. It may have been easier to alter the games content at that point. It's certainly too late now.
I think this is why we might be seeing a lack of sympathy, aside from appreciating the loss of ten years worth of work.
Despite what people want, King's Quest, and everything related to it, is held under copyright. If you don't own it, you have no right to it. Everything else is just pissing into the wind.
EDIT: Or you do what's been suggested, and tell
no one about what you're doing and just release the damn thing when it's finished.
Thanks for clearing that up.
I can't really blame the TSL team anymore. The project started during an earlier, more simple time, there was that Lost Chapter Space Quest fangame, King's Quest 1 VGA and hundreds of never to be released fangames and remakes projects in the wild, and you thought there would be no legal problems if you made your own fangame too, it's only several years later when Square shut down Chrono Resurrection and companies became aware of the fangames phenomenon that we finally wised up, by that time, it was too late for TSL to go underground and they got sucked in that legal nightmare.
May it be a lesson to current and future fangames makers: Make an homage or simply go underground.
QuoteOn the one hand, this was just a fan game (or rather, it began life as a fan game), and as such should really have died at the first C+D, regardless of quality. Harsh, but that's the risk you take when you set out to make a fan game; how much time and effort you plan to devote to it is irrelevant. The Vivendi deal (which, as we know, came after the C+D; Vivendi's initial approach was simply to shut them down) seemed to end up a poisoned chalice. Not only have they lost the ability to release the game, and even keep the TSL forums, but everything they worked on effectively belongs to Activision.
Like I said before, to enter into a project of this magnitude (or to let it get to such a level) without foreseeing the possibility of having the rug pulled out from under you, and being able to say "fine" and walk away from it, is crazy. They should have let it go five years ago. It may have been easier to alter the games content at that point. It's certainly too late now.
I find it a bit difficult to agree that it should have kicked the bucket 5 years ago, simply due to the fact AGDI got a similar agreement a year before that and when the time came to submit QFG2VGA, the whole thing went relatively smoothly and instead of a C&D we got some praise from the reviewing rep who turned out to be an avid gamer herself. The deal was never a guarantee to get the project out the door, but simply another chance to do so and I think most people, even when faced with the decision between 0% and 2% chance of getting their work released will still pick the option that has the most favorable odds. If the team had finished the first chapters sooner, before the merger or had VU Games merged with a company less rigid in their views of IP laws, the thing would have been a non-issue.
In the end, if there was one thing that was probably the project's most glaring Achilles heel (if it can even be called that), it was the ambition of the team's directive staff. Changing things or going underground was never an option, not now, not 7 years ago. After AGDI got licensed (behind the scenes) and about a year before TSL's C&D, I had an IM session with their project director where I informed him of our experiences with VU and the fact we learned that A) VU knew about them and B) VU didn't consider the project a case of fair use. I mentioned it would be a very good idea to keep the KQ elements to an absolute minimum in case VU came knocking. It turned out that at that point already, the game was specifically written to be a closing chapter to the series and removing the KQ elements would cause the whole thing to fall to pieces. Going underground would go against their vision on the direction of the project, since they were hoping to turn the project official at some point or another after the release of the first part and thus it was important to get as many downloads as possible, something that would be severely hampered by keeping an extremely low public profile.
I guess that's the tragedy of the situation...the whole dream of going big with the game, the vision that pervaded the entire project, stood or fell with the assumption the IP holder (be it VU, Activision or anyone else) would be interested and open to negotiation. Had that been the case, the project would have had the unique honor of a fan project turning into a professional commercial franchise. A big gamble that ended up backfiring, it seems at this point.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashsnc2.jpg)
So it sounds like the team deliberately put Activision in a position where the company had three choices:
1) Fund the development of an 8-years-in-the-making, fan-made sequel to a series that ended 12 years ago, with completely outdated graphics.
2) Be stuck with a semi-official first chapter only of a game meant to conclude the series; itself without closure--making it that much more complicated to ever make another King's Quest title.
3) Shut them down.
No wonder Activision made the decision they did. Sure, it would have been decent of them to stand by the deal made with Vivendi, but hardly in their interest, it seems.
At the same time, I can't agree with LimpingFish's dismissal of the whole effort. I don't agree with a lot of their tactics, but the team had ambition, I'll give them that, and the determination and talent to come close to their goal. Maybe their hubris led to their eventual failure, where a more modest project might have succeeded, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth a try, or that they should have given up at the first setback. Hell, it's their eight years of effort, not ours.
QuoteSo it sounds like the team deliberately put Activision in a position where the company had three choices:
1) Fund the development of an 8-years-in-the-making, fan-made sequel to a series that ended 12 years ago, with completely outdated graphics.
2) Be stuck with a semi-official first chapter only of a game meant to conclude the series; itself without closure--making it that much more complicated to ever make another King's Quest title.
3) Shut them down.
No wonder Activision made the decision they did. Sure, it would have been decent of them to stand by the deal made with Vivendi, but hardly in their interest, it seems.
I think you pretty much nailed it, except for option 1...the game's project director got a job at Telltale Games a little while back and I think that instead of asking Activision itself to fund the project, they would have tried to have Telltale do the rest of the episodes with Activision getting a license fee. It would have made more sense than trying to work directly under Activision who had a pretty sordid reputation concerning their interest in non-mainstream IP.
Option 2 was probably a factor...the project was written to be the series' grand finale and tie all loose ends up, but if only the first two chapters had remained produced, it ironically would have created more loose ends than it tied up. Making the production of another sequel by Activision (or another studio they licensed) difficult without TSL's writing staff involved.
QuoteAt the same time, I can't agree with LimpingFish's dismissal of the whole effort. I don't agree with a lot of their tactics, but the team had ambition, I'll give them that, and the determination and talent to come close to their goal. Maybe their hubris led to their eventual failure, where a more modest project might have succeeded, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth a try, or that they should have given up at the first setback. Hell, it's their eight years of effort, not ours.
I agree.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashswt.jpg)
I might have come across a little blunt in my earlier post. My point was that once the copyright holder became involved, legal complications were unavoidable. The one basic tenant of fan game development should be that you're knowingly infringing on someone else's copyright and that most corporations see this as a BAD thing. Hopefully your game will be out there before any C+D action (a fair amount of fan projects do manage this), but once you're on their radar before your project is out, you now face the possibility of an outcome you have little power to influence.
With Vivendi's first C+D, the logical choice, in my opinion, would have been to remove the offending material, and rework the game into an original project. As I said earlier, there's no law against creating an homage to something. King's Quest's fairytale-esque world is by no means so unique that to strip it of the basic King's Quest trappings would render it null. It's just unfortunate that the team's work was so tied in to the series' cannon. I know this was the whole point of the project, but as I said earlier, when you're faced with only two options - shut down, or rework - it's good to have a back-up plan. To cultivate this tenuous legal arrangement, with the later complication of using it as a launch pad for a commercial endeavor, just strikes me as one step too far in the life of a fan game.
Granted, AGDI were successful, but as you say, it was a different set of circumstances. And plain luck probably played a factor. I'd go so far as to say it was the exception that proved the rule, rather than setting a precedent.
The project director getting a job at Telltale is an interesting ending, as it creates the impression that the last decade has been running backwards.
In an ideal world, he would have gotten a job with the studio first, rose through the ranks, approached the studio head with the idea of obtaining the licensing rights to a defunct series of adventure games, did so, developed the game, and published it. Job done.
But this isn't an ideal world, and there were too many hiccups in the development life of the TSL saga for me to fully blame Activision (however insanely draconian they may be in general) on it's demise.
EDIT: I agree with Snarky, though, on one point. To turn a love for a game into a project that would rival most commercial adventures is an achievement we rarely witness. The talent behind TSL was never in question. But some of their later goals were likely a factor in their undoing.
Quote from: Xenogia on Tue 02/03/2010 20:52:49
It would be nice if gamers deliberately boycotted Activision.
I am sure many do.
Before i go on i have to say: I am no Kings Quest Fan, and didnt even know about the project until those horrible news went by.
Reading those news just made me rage.
I mean yeah, gamers buy hype games and franchises go down all the way and the whole industry is making mistakes that are very ugly. Thats money making and most of it is the gamers fault, it is sad, but what can you do?
Then there are always those law-wars between companies, again money is power and they are fighing about everything they can. Alos sad, cant do anythign about it.
But killing of a dedicated project fans did to support a franchise just because ... because of nothing, really there is no reason behind killing of the work of 8 years of fans. Imagine Star Trek would go like that.
That just crossed a line. Activision is officially not just moneymaking, they are evil. I mean, really, there was no reason to do that kind of move. I read those news and posted a thread on every forum i am active. I dont know if that helps, but i made sure many people know whats happening. Most people agree, a good part of them is really angry at activision and said they wont buy again from them (including me).
Enough is enough, i will never again by a product that generates money for Activision.
Everybody that buys from them ever again can say in ten years "You know the time where there existed other games than five Call of Dutys a year? Yeah i was one of those guys that still bought products from Activision to shape the future we have now"
I can not get angry at people that just want to play a game they waited for or something. But think about it, do you want that? Do you really want to give money to people that act like they are the bad guys of a completely shallow actionmovie?
I still hope in between counting their money and laughing maniacally about how cool it is to behave like James Bond villians those Activision guys read forums and rethink what they just did.
Actuall, I wouldn't give up with those petitions just yet!
Remember, when TLS won with petitions regarding Vivendi?
There still some hope however due to the following reasons:
According to a moderator at TLS games, heard that the original KQ creator "Ken Williams" already sign those petitions.
Therefore, get those petitions in and let those goons at activision know that enough is enough!
Quote from: splat44 on Sat 06/03/2010 11:47:14
Actuall, I wouldn't give up with those petitions just yet!
Remember, when TLS won with petitions regarding Vivendi?
There still some hope however due to the following reasons:
According to a moderator at TLS games, heard that the original KQ creator "Ken Williams" already sign those petitions.
Therefore, get those petitions in and let those goons at activision know that enough is enough!
It's probably going to take more than just him signing the petition to get Activision to change their mind, I mean for all they know it could just be some other bloke who just happens to have the name "Ken Williams" who signed it. Now if Ken and Roberta Williams personally wrote a letter to Activision on behalf of the TSL team that gave approval of the game then the company may be willing to change their minds, or at least go back to the negotiating table.
QuoteNow if Ken and Roberta Williams personally wrote a letter to Activision on behalf of the TSL team that gave approval of the game then the company may be willing to change their minds, or at least go back to the negotiating table.
I don't think so. All Activision care is protecting the profitability of the KQ's brand. I don't think they'd change their mind no matter who would back up TSL.
For the petition, as if the rather low number of people who signed it in the wake of the announcement wasn't a sign of failure, I doubt Activision would be open to discussion even if it reached its target number. And forget boycott already, there's not enough KQ fan for it to work, even if there was, gamers are completly spineless (http://gameinformer.com/blogs/members/b/camoclan_blog/archive/2009/11/15/epic-fail-modern-warfare-2-boycott.aspx) when it comes to boycott and ~65% of all Activision's profits comes from WoW and you're not gonna stop these folks from playing that game.
TSL has 2 chances of survival:
Activision would need to get a new CEO that would like to relaunch these old franchizes and use TSL as a diving board to promote it as several people in this thread pointed out.
Instead of trying to convince activision with petition, it's TSL you should try to convince to rework their game, no matter how difficult that would be.
But even if that were to happen, I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By now they've probably forgotten about it and are thinking about their next projects. You should do the same. TSL was not the first KQ fangame project out there and it won't be the last either.
Quote
It's probably going to take more than just him signing the petition to get Activision to change their mind, I mean for all they know it could just be some other bloke who just happens to have the name "Ken Williams" who signed it. Now if Ken and Roberta Williams personally wrote a letter to Activision on behalf of the TSL team that gave approval of the game then the company may be willing to change their minds, or at least go back to the negotiating table.
I'm the person who wrote to Ken Williams and I can assure you that it was THE Ken Williams who answered me. He said that he'd like to get involved in saving the game. According to his blog (www.kensblog.com, which is where I got his e-mail address), he and Roberta support fan-made games.
Here's the link to the petition (http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetsl/) if you'd like to sign it.
There is also a physical petition to back it up, in the form of a letter-writing campaign, so if you'd like to do more, go to the official website (http://savetsl.co.cc/).
I know that a lot of you are skeptical about petitions, but I don't see how they can possibly HURT a cause. It also wouldn't hurt to BOYCOTT ACTIVISION, which many of us "spineless" gamers are actually doing.
Finally, some of you seem to be a bit confused about the TSL community's views and intentions, so you might want to check out our existing forums (http://www.tsl-game.com/forum/index.php?topic=8394.0/). Based on what I've read there, the programmers are honest people who stuck to Vivendi's agreement and had no way of knowing that it would eventually be bought by a less agreeable company.
Quote
I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By now they've probably forgotten about it and are thinking about their next projects.
You could not be more wrong.
Quote from: Julanar on Mon 08/03/2010 00:15:12
Quote
I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By now they've probably forgotten about it and are thinking about their next projects.
You could not be more wrong.
Oh, my bad. I hate it when I badly word what I want to say and people use it to pull my arguments apart.
But even if that were to happen, I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By then they'd have probably forgotten about it and working on their next projects.As for the "spineless" thing, I didn't want to offend you or anyone who's actually boycotting Activision, I was just making a remark on video games boycott movements in general. It's perfectly feasible for someone to completly boycott a company, but how many boycotters will remain at the end of the year, when Starcraft 2 and the next WoW addon will come out? Most gamers are fickle like that. Me the first, for years I hated Eidos and if I look at my bookshelves, there's more titles published by Eidos in it than any other companies.
Quote from: blueskirt on Sun 07/03/2010 20:38:57
QuoteNow if Ken and Roberta Williams personally wrote a letter to Activision on behalf of the TSL team that gave approval of the game then the company may be willing to change their minds, or at least go back to the negotiating table.
I don't think so. All Activision care is protecting the profitability of the KQ's brand. I don't think they'd change their mind no matter who would back up TSL.
For the petition, as if the rather low number of people who signed it in the wake of the announcement wasn't a sign of failure, I doubt Activision would be open to discussion even if it reached its target number. And forget boycott already, there's not enough KQ fan for it to work, even if there was, gamers are completly spineless (http://gameinformer.com/blogs/members/b/camoclan_blog/archive/2009/11/15/epic-fail-modern-warfare-2-boycott.aspx) when it comes to boycott and ~65% of all Activision's profits comes from WoW and you're not gonna stop these folks from playing that game.
TSL has 2 chances of survival:
Activision would need to get a new CEO that would like to relaunch these old franchizes and use TSL as a diving board to promote it as several people in this thread pointed out.
Instead of trying to convince activision with petition, it's TSL you should try to convince to rework their game, no matter how difficult that would be.
But even if that were to happen, I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By now they've probably forgotten about it and are thinking about their next projects. You should do the same. TSL was not the first KQ fangame project out there and it won't be the last either.
Regarding your notion on the little number of petitions to convince Activision, it too early to express!
Look the number of petitions sent to convince Vivendi, those number must have huge for TLS to win before.
I guest that time will tell.
By the way, Julanar, thank you for contacting Ken William. At least we know the "Williams" support fan-made games!
Updated on March 9:I just came TSL and someone suggested that game's information goes to shareholders from activision so they can put motion on table!
I thought, this one of the best suggestion for getting activision attention!
So perhaps, TSL can sent game's information on all gamer's magazines especially the ones dealing on corporate's finances for shareholders to digest?
Would you say?
A media furore is just about the only remedial action I can think of.
This is idiotic.
For non-commercial game, why the hell would you need to beg anyone?
Just torrent it out - P2P and other similar distribution networks are WAY bigger and better spreaded than official ones - and just let internet magic do its job.
OR, turn it bootleg. Change name here and there, maybe mask with "in parallel dimension..." storyline and whoa, you can sell it.
Well on this topic I honestly think it is better to either stick to Original stuff.
Or change a remake so much it is not really related to the original.
Nobody can stop you from making a game if is named something else.
Like if I make leisure suit larry. Just change it to Leisure Charlie.
I could of never ever heard of leisure suit larry before.
Look anybody can make whatever game they want. They cant prove that it is related to the original if it is remade. Unless you like copied their sprites.
PS. torrents get around like anything. Like InCreator says.
When it comes to the "Why make sequels/remakes at all.." argument. Fans remake and make fan sequels to games they love for many of the same reasons that the big companies used to make sequels to their games.
Should Monkey Island have stopped after the first game? Or Quest for Glory? There is something great about these games that people crave to see more of it.
Its a shame situations like these occur. Thankfully for all the Indy fans, Lucasarts seems more relaxed on this nowadays.
QuoteJust torrent it out
Torrent is not an option because their real names were all over their game and website, and since they negociated with Vivendi and Activision, it's not far fetched to suppose Activision knows who they are and where they live. If they ignore the C&D and torrented their game at this point, lawyers won't just send letters, they'll knock on their doors. SQ7 had the same problem and so does FOY.
I always wondered why the people at AGDI insisted so much on being anonymous back in the days, I think we know why now.
Things leak though.
It's not an acceptable legal defence to shrug and say "I dunno, I didn't upload it! Did you? No? Well then it's a mystery forever! Case dismissed?"
Quote from: Mr Flibble on Wed 10/03/2010 10:43:34It's not an acceptable legal defence to shrug and say "I dunno, I didn't upload it! Did you? No? Well then it's a mystery forever! Case dismissed?"
Add an .nfo file in Russian with some fancy ASCII art and say your backup servers were hacked before the C&D arrived?
I just came from TSL forum!
They're suggesting fans to complete a survey which is completely free and email adress is not require!
Give it a try!
http://www.esurveyspro.com/Survey.aspx?id=c18124e2-bb26-4626-a0d7-e5a8d0621065 (http://www.esurveyspro.com/Survey.aspx?id=c18124e2-bb26-4626-a0d7-e5a8d0621065)
This survey results will make known to activision according to TSL
Quote from: splat44 on Mon 08/03/2010 12:48:06
Quote from: blueskirt on Sun 07/03/2010 20:38:57
QuoteNow if Ken and Roberta Williams personally wrote a letter to Activision on behalf of the TSL team that gave approval of the game then the company may be willing to change their minds, or at least go back to the negotiating table.
I don't think so. All Activision care is protecting the profitability of the KQ's brand. I don't think they'd change their mind no matter who would back up TSL.
For the petition, as if the rather low number of people who signed it in the wake of the announcement wasn't a sign of failure, I doubt Activision would be open to discussion even if it reached its target number. And forget boycott already, there's not enough KQ fan for it to work, even if there was, gamers are completly spineless (http://gameinformer.com/blogs/members/b/camoclan_blog/archive/2009/11/15/epic-fail-modern-warfare-2-boycott.aspx) when it comes to boycott and ~65% of all Activision's profits comes from WoW and you're not gonna stop these folks from playing that game.
TSL has 2 chances of survival:
Activision would need to get a new CEO that would like to relaunch these old franchizes and use TSL as a diving board to promote it as several people in this thread pointed out.
Instead of trying to convince activision with petition, it's TSL you should try to convince to rework their game, no matter how difficult that would be.
But even if that were to happen, I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By now they've probably forgotten about it and are thinking about their next projects. You should do the same. TSL was not the first KQ fangame project out there and it won't be the last either.
Regarding your notion on the little number of petitions to convince Activision, it too early to express!
Look the number of petitions sent to convince Vivendi, those number must have huge for TLS to win before.
I guest that time will tell.
By the way, Julanar, thank you for contacting Ken William. At least we know the "Williams" support fan-made games!
Updated on March 9:
I just came TSL and someone suggested that game's information goes to shareholders from activision so they can put motion on table!
I thought, this one of the best suggestion for getting activision attention!
So perhaps, TSL can sent game's information on all gamer's magazines especially the ones dealing on corporate's finances for shareholders to digest?
Would you say?
Pfft. Shareholders are interested in one thing. Moar profit!!11!! They will not get this from TSL. All they see is a sub-par product that is using characters from one of their IPs. I'd say they should announce that someone hacked into their svn and released the game through a torrent. At least that way people could play the game.
(just noticed GarageGothic said the same thing. Blame the Russians, good move :p )
Activision from an outsiders perspective seem to be a pretty narrow minded company. From all the hoohaa with Infinity Ward over royalties and what not, to the Double Fine fiasco, there seems to be too much focus on money and not enough focus on supporting the gaming community. But that is ok I suppose, since they publish games that I am not interested in playing (with the exception of MW2). There has to be at least one publisher interested in making very generic mainstream games to please the console boners.
Quote from: Mr Flibble on Wed 10/03/2010 10:43:34
It's not an acceptable legal defence to shrug and say "I dunno, I didn't upload it! Did you? No? Well then it's a mystery forever! Case dismissed?"
That is acceptable only if you can afford to spend more money on lawyers than the IP owner.
Quote from: Layabout on Fri 12/03/2010 14:56:45
Quote from: splat44 on Mon 08/03/2010 12:48:06
Quote from: blueskirt on Sun 07/03/2010 20:38:57
QuoteNow if Ken and Roberta Williams personally wrote a letter to Activision on behalf of the TSL team that gave approval of the game then the company may be willing to change their minds, or at least go back to the negotiating table.
I don't think so. All Activision care is protecting the profitability of the KQ's brand. I don't think they'd change their mind no matter who would back up TSL.
For the petition, as if the rather low number of people who signed it in the wake of the announcement wasn't a sign of failure, I doubt Activision would be open to discussion even if it reached its target number. And forget boycott already, there's not enough KQ fan for it to work, even if there was, gamers are completly spineless (http://gameinformer.com/blogs/members/b/camoclan_blog/archive/2009/11/15/epic-fail-modern-warfare-2-boycott.aspx) when it comes to boycott and ~65% of all Activision's profits comes from WoW and you're not gonna stop these folks from playing that game.
TSL has 2 chances of survival:
Activision would need to get a new CEO that would like to relaunch these old franchizes and use TSL as a diving board to promote it as several people in this thread pointed out.
Instead of trying to convince activision with petition, it's TSL you should try to convince to rework their game, no matter how difficult that would be.
But even if that were to happen, I doubt the TSL team would revive it. By now they've probably forgotten about it and are thinking about their next projects. You should do the same. TSL was not the first KQ fangame project out there and it won't be the last either.
Regarding your notion on the little number of petitions to convince Activision, it too early to express!
Look the number of petitions sent to convince Vivendi, those number must have huge for TLS to win before.
I guest that time will tell.
By the way, Julanar, thank you for contacting Ken William. At least we know the "Williams" support fan-made games!
Updated on March 9:
I just came TSL and someone suggested that game's information goes to shareholders from activision so they can put motion on table!
I thought, this one of the best suggestion for getting activision attention!
So perhaps, TSL can sent game's information on all gamer's magazines especially the ones dealing on corporate's finances for shareholders to digest?
Would you say?
Pfft. Shareholders are interested in one thing. Moar profit!!11!! They will not get this from TSL. All they see is a sub-par product that is using characters from one of their IPs. I'd say they should announce that someone hacked into their svn and released the game through a torrent. At least that way people could play the game.
(just noticed GarageGothic said the same thing. Blame the Russians, good move :p )
Activision from an outsiders perspective seem to be a pretty narrow minded company. From all the hoohaa with Infinity Ward over royalties and what not, to the Double Fine fiasco, there seems to be too much focus on money and not enough focus on supporting the gaming community. But that is ok I suppose, since they publish games that I am not interested in playing (with the exception of MW2). There has to be at least one publisher interested in making very generic mainstream games to please the console boners.
Shareholders think about more profits?
Well that won't happen with current CEO!
Take the following Activision's CEO comment by taking fun out of computer game making:
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6226758.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1 (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6226758.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1)
Before investors can expect profits, they need to consider having this CEO fire!
Yes, fun games can only come from angry people.
Apparantly that quote was pulled of its context although seeing that his business ideas are controversial to say the least, I don't think a lot of gaming sites will go out of their way to clarify the issue. As impopular as Kotick may be with gamers and as damaging as his views are to game development as a creative venture, I think he treats his shareholders well. The whole "more profits, less creativity"-thing is the reason why he's so controversial.
Kotick being replaced will not reverse TSL's C&D, since I doubt Bob Kotick signed it himself.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashum.jpg)
Hi All,
This just came out and it's a followup interview with team:
http://www.shdon.com/blog/2010/03/14/the-silver-lining-followup-an-interview-with-the-team (http://www.shdon.com/blog/2010/03/14/the-silver-lining-followup-an-interview-with-the-team)
At least team might consider in reworking project if things with Activision doesn't get done. At least this is better than dropping 8 years of works down the drain!
From the above link, "If the campaign does not produce any results with Activision, the team will consider reworking the game and removing all traces of King's Quest IP. It is by no means a simple task, but we would prefer to do that than to abandon eight years of hard work and sacrifice."
This sounds like it could work. It is worth mentioning that several elements of the King's Quest series aren't the intellectual property of Activision or indeed of anyone: fairy tales are public domain. Of course, the royal family of Daventry is not.
Neither is the Land of the Green Isles, in which the first chapter apparantly took place. It's good so see them consider this, though I can easily see that glue at least another 2 years to the existing development cycle, so I hope they get a definite call on what to do soon.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashswt.jpg)
Quote from: Erpy on Sun 14/03/2010 16:12:58
Neither is the Land of the Green Isles, in which the first chapter apparantly took place. It's good so see them consider this, though I can easily see that glue at least another 2 years to the existing development cycle, so I hope they get a definite call on what to do soon.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashswt.jpg)
"Land of the Green Isles", that ring a bell!
When saying such place takes in the first chapter, I assume you mean KQ, Is All KQ is property of activision?
I am a bit confuse here!
And I'm a bit confused by the way you worded that.
FYI...the Land of the Green Isles is the land where KQ6 took place. The first chapter of TSL apparantly took place in that same country...the various landmarks like Chessboard Land, the Castle of the Crown, the City of the Winged Ones and the Village of the Crown were directly carried over to TSL. So if all KQ IP is to be removed, the first chapter must take place in a location that no longer has any similarity to the land where KQ6 took place. A big task.
(http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashblue.jpg)
I'm kind of sorry to bump this up. But well, I'm very sympathetic to the guys on the TSL team, and it's actually a cause worth fighting for. And it's free also. So here's the petition link:
http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/savetsl
If you feel like it, just sign it and skip the rest of the steps you don't like. Within those steps you can support the petition with money, and invite your friends from facebook/twitter/myspace to join in that cause.