Is it worth it?

vgamesmaster · Sat 18/09/2004 22:46:21

Hey, I was wondering if AGS was even worth my time in downloading. I already have Game Maker, wich I already made 5 games, and DarkBASIC, I still dont know how to use it.

I would like to know if AGS is good compared to Game Maker. And what exactly is an adventure game? Give me an example if you could.

Thanks I appreciate your help.

Privateer Puddin' · Sat 18/09/2004 22:49:34

Examples: Monkey Island games, Sierras Quest series ( Space Quest, Kings Quest, Police Quest and so on), Broken sword games and so many more!

Basically, the majority of Late 80s/ Early 90s Sierra / Lucasarts game, and some other companies.

AGS is only like, 3mb so it doesnt take a lot of time to download, only get it if you do wanna make an adventure game, while it can make other games, it is best suited and designed primarily for adventure games.

Alun · Sat 18/09/2004 22:52:57

Er... well, I'd say whether or not it's "worth it" depends in large part on whether or not you're really interested in adventure games. So maybe we should cover that "what is an adventure game?" question first...

Some examples include the classic Sierra King's Quest games, which started it all, and the LucasArts Monkey Island games, and, in a rather different vein, the more recent Myst. But rather than try to explain further here, I can direct you to this "Beginner's Guide to Graphic Adventures", by Stephen Granade.

You can also go to the AGS Games page, download a few AGS games, and try them out to see if this is something that interests you. (The AGS games are self-contained executables and don't require you to download AGS itself to run them.)

(Yeah, three other people replied while I was typing this, but I thought I was adding enough new information to go ahead and make my post anyway...)

[Edited because I had accidentally italicized "AGS Games page" when I had intended to make it a link... oops...]

vgamesmaster · Sat 18/09/2004 22:53:33

Ok.. So I just played a doom game that this person made, and I found it alittle confusing. Ã,Â Can you use your own graphics (sprite), or do you have to use pre-made images? Ã,Â I'm using dial up so that download will be a pain.

Alun · Sat 18/09/2004 22:55:08

You can certainly use your own graphics. Most AGS creators do; that DOOM game is an exception. Maybe go ahead and try a few other games from the AGS Games page before reaching a decision.

vgamesmaster · Sat 18/09/2004 22:56:53

Okay, Ill try that.

I love this forum, Its not the most laud out but there are so many people replying to me that its awesome. All the other forums I go to people take a day to respond to you. I love it!

Mr Flibble · Sat 18/09/2004 22:59:56

I'm a 28.8 dail upper. I feel your pain. But Yes. AGS is definantly worth it. It has a nice easy interface, every aspect of the game can be customised, from the GUI to the text speed.

You can do your own characters, backgrounds, anything.

Just do it.

And this forum is the best. 2 People responded while I was typing this!

Pumaman · Sat 18/09/2004 23:02:42

Quote from: vgamesmaster on Sat 18/09/2004 22:46:21
And what exactly is an adventure game? Give me an example if you could.

It's worth asking yourself, if you need to ask this question, whether you'll really have the passion to make one for yourself.

Game Maker is 'easier' to use from a beginner's perspective than AGS - you will have to do some scripting if you want to make a decent game with AGS.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Sun 19/09/2004 08:38:48

Oh good, a victim! Let me rant!

After you've checked a few adventures, you'll realize there are several kinds of them. Some are puzzle-based, like Myst and Shivers and Reah, and consist solely of solving puzzles in one location and moving on to solve another one. The back story has to be strong to support those puzzles, so the game doesn't belong boring.

Usually this amount of puzzles can't go in any other game - games like Sanitarium and Black Dahlia have suffered because, although they are not puzzle-based, they have waaaay too many such puzzles.

Some other games, however, focus on the story. And some of the best games include those. I reccomend Gabe Knight 1, 2 or 3, Longest Journey, Syberia,Loom and King's Quest 2 VGA (a remake in AGS of a classic!). Those games are like watching an interactive film, with quality plot and character development. To me, THAT's an adventure game.

But then there's the "original" kind of adventure game, well expressed in such games as King's Quest 1 or Maniac Mansion, where the puzzles are inventory-based. It's all about collecting nifty stuff and finding out how and where to use, and in some cases (MM, DoTT) it's really fun!

AGS? You're asking AGS? Let me tell you, the only thing AGS can't do is 3D. Or 3d characters. But since they have diagonal movement, even that can be simulated! Heck, "The Longest Journey", "The Neverhood" "Broken Sword 1,2", "Gabe Knight 1,2", these and more could have been made with AGS! AGS is THE most powerful tool. But ONLY for creating adventures. So give yourself some time, fall in love with them first, see what makes them tick, what you love most about them... and then let fly!

Phemar · Sun 19/09/2004 11:44:46

I think the topic-title should be changed, and this should become a sticky.

Mr Jake · Sun 19/09/2004 11:46:38

... why?

Really if you had to ask what an adventure game is the genre probably wouldn't interest you, so you might not find it worthy

juncmodule · Sun 19/09/2004 14:30:59

Well, why I agree that there isn't much need to sticky this thread, perhaps a more detailed history and explanation of Adventure Games would be good for the main AGS page.

Basically I have this theory:

AGSers between 25 and 30 started out with King's Quest and Sierra and moved from there.

AGSers between 15 and 25 started out with Monkey Island and LucasArts and moved from there

However, those generations are getting older. Those that joined AGS at 15 when it first started up are nearing 20 now. This brings in a whole new generation that may not have had exposure to "proper" adventure games. There are a large number of people that come here and say they just "downloaded" Monkey Island and loved it. They may love adventure games just the same as all of us, but they've only been playing for a few months. I don't see any problem with catering to these new adventure game fans.

An addition to redruM's post: I don't think AGS should be considered for any type of "arcade" type of game. While it is possible, someone new to programming and AGS is probably not going to make it very far with one. (so, as he said, "ONLY for creating adventures")

later,
-junc

Pumaman · Sun 19/09/2004 15:01:51

Hmm yes, perhaps we should consider how people find AGS. I always assumed people would find this place after already being familiar with adventures and looking to create their own, or from playing an AGS game; but it's perfectly possible for people to stumble upon it 'by accident', with no prior knowledge of adventure games. I'm not sure whether it's worth adding a page explaining what adventure games are to the website, since generally speaking if people don't know what one is, they won't stick around the website long enough to care.

InCreator · Sun 19/09/2004 17:29:49

Moving from Game Maker to AGS is quite a big step.
They're completely different in many ways, and the game developing process is quite different too.

In AGS, you start with paint program and spend enough time on it for AGS to have few new versions before you're finished with at least minimal needed bgs and sprites to start scripting and actual game making.
With Game Maker, you usually draw graphics in progress, because usually sprites are alot smaller and you add objects (instances) one by one.

I don't think that neither of programs are available to use easily without any scripting. ESPECIALLY game maker, since every instance you make needs almost always few user-made variables and scripting via drag-and-drop-icons is actually alot more difficult and time consuming. If you're really making a game and not a one-room-3-objects spaghetti, that is.

AGS has become alot more stable and fast engine than GM is.

And games are more dynamic, interesting and feel more complex.
Especially if comparing absolute-beginner-made AGS and GM games... GM beginners usually make some simple maze-type-game with stolen graphics and maybe default sounds, while even really n00b AGS game already feels like a GAME.

But yes, since AGS is oriented to one genre, the freedom of making anything is more difficult to reach and needs superior scripting skills.

juncmodule:
Weird, but I always thought that Leisure Suit Larry 1 was the real shock and wow-effect in adventure game genre. I started from there and many people I know did too.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Sun 19/09/2004 18:32:46

Well, I, for one, started with Indy 3 and Monkey Island, and I'm 18... but that was because of a games collection rich of adventure games. It also had PQ3, SQ1 and 4, Future Wars, Cruise for a Corpse...

Hmmm, shouldn't a new category come forward? People who began with Syberia and Longest Journey? I understand that these brought new fans to the genre...

Scummbuddy · Mon 20/09/2004 20:57:23

No redruM. We won't make a new category since we don't like these new adventure fans. It was bad enough us merging Lucas fans with Sierra fans way back when on the forums.Ã,Â

TerranRich · Tue 21/09/2004 00:32:48

And bad blood still boils.

* QuantumRich brandishes his sword, holding the Sierra banner up high.

"You can take our games, but you'll never take... our freedom!"

Raider · Tue 21/09/2004 02:28:56

Sorry this is off topic but: redruM, is that murder backwards, or a coincidence?
That has been bugging me for some time. I do suspect it is meant to say murder
Sorry back to the topic...

- Raider

PS: It's worth it!

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires · Tue 21/09/2004 08:49:04

Raider - It's a Stephen King reference, from "The Shining". Indeed, it spells Murder, poor Danny Torrance!

You philistines! Thy big head hast been stuck in the dark ages! I'll join with the vanguard! To hell with the balance and the Draic Kin, we want progress!