Mittens IX pre-planning

[Nacho]

Okay... If it's Italy, I offer myself as a organiser... I speak Spanish (quite similar) and a bit of Italian because of the cycling stuff, and, hey! I have a degree in tourism... It' s my work to organise trips! Remember I did more activities than any other host when you came to Spain, I only made the mistake of setting it in a campsite close to a british pub area... (Errors I won't commit again)

My idea is Toscana, in the countryside, of course, but also close to Roma, Pisa and Firenza...

If somebody wants to help me, I will be glad... if somebody does have something against me doing it (I repeat, if it' s done in Italy) reply now or shut up forever...

-Nacho.

[Miez]

I'd gladly go to Italy, and I wouldn't mind helping out with organising...

Bellissimo! Prego! Ciao bella!

[AGA]

bicilotti is Italian, Nacho. It might be a better idea to let him do it, if he's willing.

[Nacho]

Maybe, but I don't LOVE the idea of someone who never expressed the smaller will to come to mittens to start jumping and running across the room when heards "mittens... close to me? I wanna go! I wanna organise it!!! I love mittens!!!11!!! I LOVE IT!!!".

It's a bit unfair with those who expressed interest before no matter where the meeting is set...

But I don' t want to create polemics... I just say that I don't  LOVE it.. It' s not that I hate the idea or that I dislike it or something... It' s just that I don' t LOVE it...

[Ishmael]

A local is still a local, either you love it or don't or even deep-fry it.

[IndieBoy]

I don't think Bicilotti has expressed himself in such a manner about it all, Nacho. Although I understand your point, but you can't exclude a local from help organise it just because he hasn't been to a mittens before. It's daft and pompus in my book.

[Darth Mandarb]

I do not think it's daft and pompous.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I would much rather it be organized/hosted by people I've met at Mittens before because if I'm going to spend the money (probably will be around 2,000 USD) to come to Italy (or Holland) I don't want to get there and then have everything fall through because it was poorly organized!  Again, I'm not saying Bicilotti wouldn't be capable (or willing - I don't think he expressed interest) I'm just saying I'd be more comfortable with somebody who has Mittens experience were setting things up.

Just my two cents ... I'll be there either way

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.  I see no reason to discriminate (and I choose the word because that's what it amounts to) between someone who has been to a Mittens gathering and someone who has not but who is more than willing to help out.  AGA seems to be very sensible on this issue and he's attended every Mittens gathering to date, and I really don't think the whole 'poorly organized' argument holds any water, Darth; a Mittens regular could just as easily mismanage and make a mess out of plans just because they're human.  I mean, seriously...do you actually mean to tell me you think that someone who attends a group gathering to have fun is now more qualified to organize it?  That's about what the argument sounds like to me, and I'm sorry but that's just hogwash.  Also, he doesn't necessarily need to 'organize' everything to provide important help in the form of location suggestions and translation assistance.

Anyway, since I hate planes and won't be going to Italy this isn't really my business, but since I encouraged Francesco to offer his help I felt somewhat responsible.

[MrColossal]

I'd never been to a mittens before and I hosted and Helm was the host to his first mittens. It'll be fine.

[Layabout]

I've got no reason against Bicolotti hosting a Mittens. He seems interested in doing it and is an upstanding member of the AGS community.

[Nacho]

As I said before, I don't LOVE the idea, but I don't hate it, so the deffense I am going to do of my arguments is going to be quite mild... But Eric, Helm came to Sweden before hosting Mittens Greece.

And for you, well... The circumstances change a bit: M0ds did not host/attended to any mittens before he made the FIRST. Logic. What I mean is that, the lesser mittens we had, the less opportunities people had to attend... So, at the early years, not attending was not an argument against the possibility of having something to see about mittens. In addition, you never had a mittens in your continent till Mittens NY.

Now things have changed: Bicilotti had the possibility to express interest in mittens hosted in his continent for several times and he expressed no interest at all... And now he is the biggest mittens fan ever? Okay... Let' s say it was a coincidence...

And Prog... No one has expressed the idea of Bicilotti not being able to do it, or not being allowed to attend,  or suggested that "Francesco is not a good guy". So, stop strawmanning...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#In_logic_and_rhetoric
What we say is that hosting mittens is a great honour, something sorta reserved for someone "important" for those who attended mittens before or someone special for the community in general, as happened with Eric... I am just saying that labelling "Host" to someone who never attended to mittens or made anything "special" in the community (Set where I include myself, and 98% of the AGSers) might be a bit unfair... Nowadays with the internet you can organise a mittens in italy from, let' s say... Australia!

Layabout has expressed his will to organise a mittens, and he has attended a few... I would be more "comfortable" if he is the lead organiser (I know he and Disco have been making a good research of villas already) and Bicilotti is the "main assistant" or something... As you see, it' s more a discussion of "semanthics" and "labels" than a real "I don't want him to host it!!1111one!!" complain.

I turn very picky sometimes when it' s about labels...  

[Darth Mandarb]

and I really don't think the whole 'poorly organized' argument holds any water, Darth; a Mittens regular could just as easily mismanage and make a mess out of plans just because they're human.  I mean, seriously...do you actually mean to tell me you think that someone who attends a group gathering to have fun is now more qualified to organize it?

Yes.  A person who has been to Mittens knows how the week plays out, what kind of events people like (and don't like), what we've done before, etc.  I should think this was common sense? I never said a person who hasn't been to Mittens couldn't manage it, just that I would prefer somebody with Mittens experience to organize it.  It's called an opinion.  No hogwash involved, just an opinion that holds water just fine   Seriously ... I tested it in the lab, no water leaked.

Also

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I ...

[Nacho]

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I ...

[/quote]

Straw men... They are cool, and they can make you win internet fights... When the audience is stupid, of course. Fortunatelly here it is not.

[bicilotti]

Relax fellows, relax!

[...] he doesn't necessarily need to 'organize' everything to provide important help in the form of location suggestions and translation assistance.

That effectively summarises the way I feel about it.

[Grundislav]

I have to disagree with the "Mittens attendees make better organizers/hosts" argument.

The only real requirement to being the organizer, as said before, is finding a location.  Once everyone arrives, the host doesn't HAVE to know where to go or what to do, it's not a requirement to have fun.  Sure, it might increase the possibilities if a local knows where to go and what to do, but Mittens France was mainly organized by AGA, and even though we didn't really speak French or know where anything was, we still had fun and found our way around.  Exploration is what adventuring is all about, right?

So yeah, regardless of where we have it or who organizes it, us AGSers always find something to do.

[Darth Mandarb]

** ducks out of a pointless debate that is going nowhere and that shouldn't have been started in the first place **

I really don't care who organizes it or what location is chosen.  I'll be there either way.

[Snarky]

The only way to resolve this disagreement is to set up two competing Mittens and see which one is more successful.

[Stupot]

I agree with Grundy.
I can't see how having a first time Mitteneer as the "host" would be such a disaster.  To me, the majority of their role takes place in the pre-stages (booking a venue, getting numbers, taking money, and sure, maybe looking into some possible activities).  

But on the day, when everyone is together and has a few drinks down their necks, the fun should take care of itself.  It's not up to the host to make sure everyone is enjoying themselves, although they might feel irrationally responsible if everyone was having a shit time.  But from what I've heard Mittens is never a shit time, and I dream of attending one year, regardless of who is hosting.

[AGA]

I made very little effort to actually organise anything at the Mittens I "hosted", aside from the quiz. Everything else people basically decided among themselves.

[Disco]

The only way to resolve this disagreement is to set up two competing Mittens and see which one is more successful.

Well the way it looks now, one Mittens will have 4 solid members while the other Mittens will have 12, with 9 more divided equally (let's assume anyways ) between the two.