Mittens IX pre-planning

[Disco]

Based on some of the comments in the Mittens Return thread, I though it wise to start a new thread dedicated to Mittens IX planning.

Though it seems that Holland was decided as next year's location, a few at the most recent shindig (including yours truly) were either not present at that discussion, or else pissed on sangria. Perhaps we ought to put the next location up for review again.

Aside from Holland, Italy is another location mentioned often both in the other thread as well as at Mittens this year. Beyond that, I'm not sure what other possibilities were discussed in public or private, so if there are any other locations that are good candidates, lets hear them!

I can see the appeal in either Holland or Italy. No other AGS meet, Mittens or otherwise, has been held in these countries. Also, budget air or rail/car put them in reach for most of our European members, and both countries are major air destinations for the Intercontinentals. Now that we are in a better situation to get more input on the next Mittens, we should discuss the main choices and try and get to some consensus. I have made a quick list of the highs and lows of each:

Pros for Holland:
1. WILL ALL THE DUTCH AGS MEMBERS PLEASE STAND UP!
2. Cocoalicious.
3. Gives CJ a chace to brush up on his Dutch

Cons for Holland:
1. Haven't we tried this before?

Pros for Italy:
1. Villas that sleep our usual numbers are seemingly ubiquitous, or so the internet says.
2. We can hold hands without fear of persecution.
3. Gives CJ an excuse to speak in his fluent Italian.

Cons for Italy:
1. No local to organise


Okay, so that may have been more silly than I planned, but on a serious note I feel strongly enough about Italy that I would be willing to make the arrangements as long-distance host and handle all those responsibilities. I have nearly given up on ever hosting "Mittens in the Mitten", so it could be an opportunity for me to organise our beloved gathering, if only once.

A quick Google shows no shortage of 20+ villas or farmhouses to choose from, and most of the ones I've seen have been substantially less than we paid for in Hollywood. Even the first one I found looked promising and (comparatively) inexpensive at £1,867 a week, which at 22 person occupancy translates to about £85, or $136 USD per person :o There are still dozens more I haven't even looked at.

So what do we want to do? Where do we want to go?

[Layabout]

Riding a vespa through cobblestone villages...

or...

Smelling tulips while looking at windmills.

Hmm, hard

But the vespa wins for me.

[Grundislav]

I can't deny that Holland would be an interesting time...

...but Italy has been on the top of my travel list for quite some time, so given the choice I would have to go with Italy as well.

[Andail]

Both Amsterdam and Rome are wonderful wonderful cities. I will totally endorse either location.

Since every fourth AGSer - and every third internet user overall - is Dutch, we can expect Mittens in Holland being flooded by locals next year.

[Miez]

I was present at the Mittens Miami let's-do-Holland-next-year "discussion" (which was not so much a discussion, more just me saying that I wouldn't mind organising ).
Holland would be fun, Italy sounds great as well.

One of the advantages of the Netherlands would be size: everyting you'd like to do in a tiny country with good infrastructure.
One of the advantages of Italy would be those aforementioned cheap villas.

So from me: no particular preference.

[jetxl]

...
Cons for Holland:
1. Haven't we tried this before?
...

I don't think we have.


I'd choose Italy above Netherland since I live in this poophole country.

Every dutch person can at least understand english so you don't need a local translator like helm everytime you order a pizza.
Finding cheap/isolated/beautifull accomodations that can hold 20+ people for a week will be hard. There won't be as much choise as in Italy, that's for sure.


What about... Germany?
We could build a bonfire!

[Nacho]

I like both... But I think some oranges might have the illusion to host it, and removing the sweet after showing it might be a bit mean....

About the "We shouldn' t go to the Nederland because some members can go mad with the weed" argument... Sorry, for me it' s  a bit revealer of the personality of the member who mentioned it ^_^ I would never be tempted about Amsterdam' s savage appeals... If you are, why should the rest of the people pay for your vicious mentality??? 

[Layabout]

About the "We shouldn' t go to the Nederland because some members can go mad with the weed" argument... Sorry, for me it' s  a bit revealer of the personality of the member who mentioned it ^_^ I would never be tempted about Amsterdam' s savage appeals... If you are, why should the rest of the people pay for your vicious mentality??? 

That was me who said it! It was a joke by the way. You didn't have a certain someone being annoying and high in your car on the way to Mittens France!  I personally would prefer Italy over Holland, but I'd still enjoy the Netherlands.

[Stupot]

While I would choose Italy out of the two, I would still be up for Holland if that's where it happened to be.  I'm sure the place has much more to offer than weed, which doesn't interest me at all.

[magintz]

I've been to both Italy and Holland. Italy will be a lot warmer but has ice-cream. Holland has windmills and AGSers to assist organising.

Other suggestions:
Croatia? Somewhere like Dubrovnik?
China? Half-way between the Euros and Yanks.

[Nacho]

About the "We shouldn' t go to the Nederland because some members can go mad with the weed" argument... Sorry, for me it' s  a bit revealer of the personality of the member who mentioned it ^_^ I would never be tempted about Amsterdam' s savage appeals... If you are, why should the rest of the people pay for your vicious mentality???  

That was me who said it! It was a joke by the way. You didn't have a certain someone being annoying and high in your car on the way to Mittens France!   I personally would prefer Italy over Holland, but I'd still enjoy the Netherlands.

I was kidding too... I never meant that you are an addict or something... ^_^

[Stupot]

Shall we the the Hostel tour?

[Disco]

Okay so now we have a few other suggestions to add- Germany, Croatia, and China. I could see the first two being serious offerings while China may be just out of reach for some. Usually meets are traded between continents to give half the group a break on their travel costs If anything I would go to Taiwan over China though.

Anyways back to the Holland/Italy tally, we have either votes for Italy or Indifference, with Nacho perhaps favouring Holland so as not to take the sweet

So as of now we have-
Italy: 5
No Preference: 3


Regarding the newer suggestions, I could see Germany being an interesting place to hold, and we do have locals there.

[Miez]

Okay so now we have a few other suggestions to add- Germany, Croatia, and China. I could see the first two being serious offerings while China may be just out of reach for some. Usually meets are traded between continents to give half the group a break on their travel costs If anything I would go to Taiwan over China though.

Anyways back to the Holland/Italy tally, we have either votes for Italy or Indifference, with Nacho perhaps favouring Holland so as not to take the sweet

So as of now we have-
Italy: 5
No Preference: 3


Regarding the newer suggestions, I could see Germany being an interesting place to hold, and we do have locals there.

Just out of misguided patriotism, but what would make Germany preferable over Dutchland? It will be as hard to find a good place to stay there as it is in the Netherlands...

[Disco]

Well honestly I was more thinking with my stomach than my brain there I don't know the logistics but I do know pretzel bread, potato pancakes, and beer 

[GarageGothic]

I'm partial to the Netherlands since I love Amsterdam and would like to see more of the country. Italy is also awesome - my girlfriend is Italian and I've done quite a bit of traveling there. However, organizing it could be a royal PITA without at least one Italian (or Italian speaking) AGS'er to help out (bicilotti?) as very people there speak English. Mittens in Tuscany is lovely to picture though.

As for the other suggestions, Germany is pretty much the Netherlands with nazi train conductors instead of weed. Croatia, I wouldn't mind but don't have any special preference for. And China... Give me a couple of years to save up the money and I'll let you know.

[Nacho]

Kenneth, I think you might be being a bit tendentious (No offence)... You want Italy, and you sum up points for Italy, but I am quite sure that some of the "indifferent" you mentioned want NL, but are  too polite for not mentioning it openly.

Of course, if I do the same and put all the "indifferent" into the "NL list" then I would be the tendentious, wanting to sum up votes for NL and leading a "faction"... I don' t want to do that, but I think it should be a bit unfair to create a sympathy trend to Italy just because the people who wants to go to NL doesn't want to interfere....

Of course, I could be mistaken and interpreting the feelings of the "indifferent" badly... 

[Disco]

Huh?

so given the choice I would have to go with Italy as well.

But the vespa wins for me.

I'd choose Italy above Netherland since I live in this poophole country.

While I would choose Italy out of the two, I would still be up for Holland if that's where it happened to be.

Indifferent actually I guess

I feel strongly enough about Italy that I would be willing to make the arrangements as long-distance host and handle all those responsibilities.

But the indifferents I tallied because because:

Both Amsterdam and Rome are wonderful wonderful cities. I will totally endorse either location.

So from me: no particular preference.

I like both... But I think some oranges might have the illusion to host it, and removing the sweet after showing it might be a bit mean....

I've been to both Italy and Holland. Italy will be a lot warmer but has ice-cream. Holland has windmills and AGSers to assist organising.

And now GarageGothic votes partial to Netherlands so that goes to Holland. I'm reading reading into preferences Nacho I just wanted to see where to have it since many admit to missing the discussion and this gives us more chance to get ideas from everyone.

[jetxl]

Is there something wrong between you two?

[MillsJROSS]

I also missed the discussion where we chose Holland, however, considering the Mittens house didn't have a huge room that we all generally congregated in, I took no offense.

I prefer Holland for a couple of reasons.

1) We have plenty of members to host it who have already offered to host it, and who consequently know their way around.

2) I want to find out if Amsterdam is all it's cracked up to be.

3) We still maintain the tradition of choosing the next Mittens location at Mittens.

4) Ace already told us it would be in Holland, he's rarely wrong.

The price of the lodgings generally isn't that big of a deal, considering we pay in numbers. This years mittens seemed very cheap considering I don't think I could find a crappy hotel that wouldn't charge more than that for a weeks stay.

I also think that only those who attended mittens this year should really have a say one way or the other on our location. The reason we do this at Mittens is because opening it up to the forums usually makes an inconclusive thread. When do we stop tallying votes? Why does so-and-so's vote matter, considering they might not even try to attend the event, and why should they then have power to choose a location?

The good news to this debate is that we can always have a Mittens Italy/Holland another year.

-MillsJROSS

[Nacho]

Just the opposite, Mr. Jet... We are so friends that we know we can have a fiendly chat without having hard feelings and stuff like that! ^_^

[Disco]

Is there something wrong between you two?

He touch me inappropriately in the car!

....


Mills does have some good points about people swaying the results and not showing up, I think most of the discussion tends to stay in the regulars with a few potentials here and there. Also, there is no rush to have it either place, one of the two will eventually show up in years to come I just meant for us to have another go at discussing to see what everyone thought.

[Becky]

Italy is a lovely country, I've been there before and would love to see more of it   Plenty of places to stay, locations to choose from, etc.  Not having a native Italian speaker may be a handicap, but it'd also force us to brush up our Italian a bit?

I've never been to Holland, which is also a plus for me, I'd like to visit!   Local AGSers does help a lot, I'm sure we'd find somewhere great to stay anyway.

Both are pretty easy to get to from here as well

I am for either, or both!

[m0ds]

Both locations sound great. I'd be able to attend either. Italy would be the greater choice for myself, because I've been to Holland a lot, and probably going to Amsterdam in a couple of months too. But I like Mills point about Holland being what was decided at Mittens Miami, and that he stresses this kind of choice "at the event" is really the fairest, simplest way to get the decision made without lengthy threads about who what why etc. It's nice when such tradition is continued I'm assuming it will undoubtedly end up in Holland next year, and that's more than okay with me. It will be fun with whoever's there as it always is! Italy would be much more romantic - but who am I kidding? Romance with 20 guys? EUGH! I'll take the copius amounts of weed option It would though mean I could walk around in Ben Jordan 7 tho and that'd be great Both places are incredibly cheap for me though which is always the deciding factor on whether I go. Going to Holland would open up some nice possiblities for us travelling from the UK, like a road trip, in which I get really drunk and high in the back of Layabouts car...AGAIN  8) Only this time I'm gonna puke in it too ya beestard!  

Looking forward to Mittens 20-10, sponsors of the Mittolympics 2012.

Oh, and FruitTree was organising a Dittens for this year which was Amsterdam so don't forget to get his help for Holland if it happens

[Nacho]

Becky, I think italian shouldn't be a problem for the Spanish talkers like Lore, Francisco, me... And Chris Jones! We could do the interpretation task... 

[bicilotti]

Mamma mia, did someone say Italy? 

Did you have something in mind (like north or south or a particular place)?

[Nacho]

I *think* that if we decide Italy, Toscana should be a good option... Th problem is that nobody decided anything, yet. (well, in Mittens we decided Netherlands, but apparently there was not the required "quórum").

[Disco]

Yeah we are just trying to establish the country first and decide the finer details later, but from what I've seen and read the middle to northern part of the country seems to suite our needs best and just generally seems to be more farmy and more open to summer renters.

[bicilotti]

I *think* that if we decide Italy, Toscana should be a good option... Th problem is that nobody decided anything, yet. (well, in Mittens we decided Netherlands, but apparently there was not the required "quórum").

Yeah we are just trying to establish the country first and decide the finer details later, but from what I've seen and read the middle to northern part of the country seems to suite our needs best and just generally seems to be more farmy and more open to summer renters.

Yes, yes, I wasn't trying to take side in the quarrel
Just keep in mind that the italian boot is thin 'n' tall, and a, e.g. Mittens.Tuscany != Mittens.Sicily.

[Andail]

It would like to add that the tradition of picking next year's mittens during a mittens meeting should yield to the benefits of being able to discuss it between more people and for a longer period of time.
After all, neither second nor third mittens were planned during meetings.

And with this, I cast my vote on Italy.

I encourage everyone who hasn't been to Amsterdam to go there, but for Mittens Italy just feels better for some reason.

[Darth Mandarb]

I would be okay with either location.  As Grundy stated, Italy has been on the top of my "to visit" list for many years!  But, like Mills said ... we did, at mittens, discuss Holland.  I could go either way!  Much of Amulet of Kings takes place in Italy so I wouldn't mind doing some research while at Mittens

[Stee]

I would consider Holland if it gets decided, I get my passport sorted and I have funds next year. Holland can be quite cheap for us Brits to travel too. Thats if anyone would be interested in having me there. As long as I'm allowed one afternoon to try those special cakes they make.

Although I wouldn't consider my vote a serious contribution, since I've never been to Mittens or Brittens before, and am hardly a reliable person.

[bicilotti]

I would consider Holland if [...] I get my passport sorted [...]

I think you won't need a passport to travel within the UE, just a simple ID. Or am I wrong?

[Pet Terry]

Hi, not sure if anyone remembers me anymore, but just wanted to weigh in and cast my vote on Italy. For me personally Italy is one of the countries I've wanted to travel to for a long time and Mittens there would be great. Getting there from the northern countries shouldn't even be very expensive. If the rent of the villa/house was reasonable, I'd do my damn best to go.

Obviously this is way too early to say "I'm going!", but I'd definitely much rather go to Italy than Holland. Also Croatia (as suggested by Gary) would be a great country to have Mittens in. Let's hope I will be very rich next summer... I am "rich" now, but wasn't when it was time to decide whether to go to Mittens Miami or not. Bah!

[Pesty]

I definite like both locations, though Italy appeals to me a little more (sorry, Holland!). Hopefully by then I'll have some sort of stability that'll allow me to go outside of the country (a passport wouldn't hurt either, I suppose). I'm sick of missing meetins!

[Nacho]

Who are you Pet Terry? And why have you stolen Petteri's avatar???

[Ishmael]

Mittens in Europe again and another Finn on the way, I'd definitely be there given I'll get rich by then. Which will hopefully happen.

Either location's fine, I haven't been anywhere so I'll gladly go see what places are like on that account.

[Dualnames]

Mamma mia, did someone say Italy? 

Did you have something in mind (like north or south or a particular place)?

No local? Hey, I know italian, close to Greece, Bici is there, it can happen!!

[Snarky]

I actually thought Croatia sounded really exciting. Partly because I've already been to the Netherlands and to Italy (both are nice, wouldn't mind going back), and partly because I've always heard that Croatia has an amazing coastline.

Having someone local to organize things and provide logistics seemed very helpful this year--I don't know how you've arranged things in the past and how that has worked out. That'd really be my only concern with Italy (and Mills' point about sticking to the decision-making process).

I would be OK with whatever, and couldn't say for sure that I could come anyway, so feel free to ignore me.

[Nacho]

Dual, your point is not very valid...

OR... if valid, it's a huge CON for Netherlands...

Because MANY people in AGS knows Dutch, and many AGSers are not only close to there, but THERE.

But I don't want to go on being NL advocate... I like both If we go to Toscana I will bring my bike...

[Andail]

I would consider Holland if [...] I get my passport sorted [...]

I think you won't need a passport to travel within the UE, just a simple ID. Or am I wrong?

You need passport for EU in general. For countries within Schengen it's enough with national ID.
For some neighbouring countries, like the Scandinavian countries, ID card is also sufficient, but I don't know where else that's the case.

[bicilotti]

I would consider Holland if [...] I get my passport sorted [...]

I think you won't need a passport to travel within the UE, just a simple ID. Or am I wrong?

You need passport for EU in general. For countries within Schengen it's enough with national ID.
For some neighbouring countries, like the Scandinavian countries, ID card is also sufficient, but I don't know where else that's the case.

Indeed, indeed! And the UK is one of the few countries which decided it wasn't cool to join in. What a pity, Stee

[Layabout]

Hi there, me again.

Who was actually at the group meeting at mittens that decided on the next location? It seems from the current posters that the only one who mentioned being party to any kind of discussion about it was miez, who offered to host it if it were held in holland.

While my opinion probably counts for less since I will have the farthest distance to travel, it seems the general consensus is people would prefer Italy since it's on many people's travel list. Like mine :p

[Pumaman]

I'd be happy with either. I was at a couple of discussions about this at Mittens where Holland seemed to be the best option, but the general tone in this thread seems to be that more people would prefer Italy.

If we can get by in Italy without a native-speaking host then it would seem like a viable option.

[AGA]

Plenty of us agreed on Holland at the time. Only Disco seems to have come up with this Italy idea, it seems.

Personally I don't mind either way.

[Disco]

Is that so? I thought I was maybe the third or so person to bring Italy up online. In the realm of post-Mittens ideas I was actually pulling for Turkey, but I was alone on that so forgot about it

May I repeat, I only started this because a few people mentioned other places (including Italy) in the other thread and a few I've spoken to didn't seem to be aware of the Holland choice at this year's meet. Maybe we are a minority or it's because I missed the last morning of Mittens. Again, I was just trying to get more input 

[Layabout]

Plenty of us agreed on Holland at the time. Only Disco seems to have come up with this Italy idea, it seems.

Personally I don't mind either way.

I'm aware that both Grundislav and Disco suggested the Italy idea. But from the tone of this thread from members who were at Mittens, it seems the Holland idea is just something that happened.


I've spoken to a few people, who have either said that 'it looks like it might be Holland' or 'I think it will be Holland'. No one has actually said, 'Yep, we ALL decided mittens 2010 will be Holland and the host is...'

Just on the fact that most of the mitteneers didn't seem to be involved in the deciding discussion (from the posts in this very thread) and that there were many regulars missing this year due to the location kind of puts this up for discussion and perhaps a vote.

[Nacho]

As said, I don't want to be the advocate of any of the options but this "It was decided unpropperly" thing is just a fallacious argument... How was decided that it was going to be Spain? I was drunk and said to CJ, "I can host", he said "Yes, that sounds good for you, AGA?" and Aga said "mmmmph".

Result: Spain.

Same with Francisco, last year... He was playing the piano, Lore and me approached, and he said "I want to host mittens!" and we said "Mittens Miamiiii!"

Result: Miami.

I mean, if we want to go to Italy, let' s go to Italy... but don't use tricks like saying "Nobody was there when Netherlands was decided" because there was more people deciding that in that moment than ever.

Sorry for being a bit the Farlander of the forums in spite of the cheerful Nacho of mittens, but I don't like people taking decissions based in a false statement...

[Becky]

I like how people who weren't at Mittens are saying that the discussions at Mittens excluded people!  How would they know? They weren't there?   There were multiple discussions throughout the week (and by discussions, someone said "So next year, how about Holland?"  "Sounds good") and its not like everyone at previous Mittens decided exactly where Mittens should be

I really don't mind which country we go for - although I think that Holland would be easier, doesn't mean it would be better! - but there's no need to argue about how we came about the idea of Holland - as Nacho said, other countries have been more spur of the moment/one person deciding they can host.

[SSH]

I would consider Holland if [...] I get my passport sorted [...]

I think you won't need a passport to travel within the UE, just a simple ID. Or am I wrong?

You need passport for EU in general. For countries within Schengen it's enough with national ID.
For some neighbouring countries, like the Scandinavian countries, ID card is also sufficient, but I don't know where else that's the case.

Indeed, indeed! And the UK is one of the few countries which decided it wasn't cool to join in. What a pity, Stee

Just to passport nitpick: You can use EU ID cards thoughout the EU instead of a passport (including in the UK: my mother-in-law has done this). Its just that the UK has no national  ID card scheme... yet. Therefore UK people need a passport. Oh, and I'll be in China next year so no Mittens for me again.

[Layabout]

I like how people who weren't at Mittens are saying that the discussions at Mittens excluded people!  How would they know? They weren't there?

Cause I can read this thread.

Maybe I'm just jealous since whenever I say "I'll host it in Australia" everyone goes... "What are you serious. I ain't flying all the way out there, screw you!"

Where is the sarcasmotron?

[Nacho]

Dear Ryan, we tried Australia once and it did not work...

I would be happy to give it a second chance in a couple of years, though...

[The Ivy]

I would love to go to Italy. I would go for the ruins alone!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

As for needing a local, you've got Bicilotti!

[Radiant]

Personally, I would prefer Italy, because going on vacation in my own country just lacks a certain appeal...

[DutchMarco]

OK let me chip in a bit:

Italy: I' d fınd that very cool, it'd give me more of a feeeling I were on vacation (upside of people speaking another language)
Downside of people speaking another language: I don't understand it (apart from the labels on the instruments in my -Italian- car - aqua, benzina, etcetera) nor does any other AGSer. I can see how this could be a real bummer.
Sure Italian food is nice - and Eric, no more apologizing for the quality of the pizzas, ' mkay? not while we're in Italy.

Netherands: I'd be honored to (at least co-) organize the event. It could still feel like a holiday for me, what with even if this is only a small country, you could still get into some nice surroundings (especially if we book a place on or near the Veluwe - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veluwe (a beautiful area and since I spend most of my time here in or near cities, it'd be a very welcome change of scenery to get into the countryside a bit))
So all in all, I must say that my preference does go to NL, but I'd also be very excited about Italy). Most people esp. the younger ones - understand English - though I must warn you about the reputation of Amsterdam's taxi-drivers - who can be a bit hostile towards American tourists (I'm ashamed to say this - ubtr most people are very nice so I hope I won't instill too much fear)
Also, don't expect to only smell Tulips - we have cows here too who produce their own typical scent, one that you'd haeve to get used to like the farmers seem to do, how else can they endure it? Sure, the hot humidity is also something you have to grow used to, and like ' eau de vache" it tends not to linger indoors, if you keep doors + windows closed.

If we'd choose Italy, anyone could book a place for Mittens - thanks to the wonderful interwebs... and I'd be very honoured to help organize any location we're going to.

So Ken, put me down for NL over Italy (since I must make a choice)

Ps,the "decison" to go to Holland was a sort of de-facto thing, which just grew into being there, no serious talks were held (this being Mittens), I just happily went along with it (sure, I might've actually lit the flame a bit myself). Of course, Mils' game suggested Mittens too, that does add some clout I'd say.

[FruitTree]

since when is this such a democratic thing?
just decide and host already! it'll be awesome either way!


grr! get on with it!

[m0ds]

Marco and Miez organise Mittens 2010 in Italy somewhere.

There ya go.

Best of both worlds.

[Miez]

Marco and Miez organise Mittens 2010 in Italy somewhere.

There ya go.

Best of both worlds.

Haha, thanks but no thanks. No parliamo Italiano. Or something...

[Stee]

I would consider Holland if [...] I get my passport sorted [...]

I think you won't need a passport to travel within the UE, just a simple ID. Or am I wrong?

You need passport for EU in general. For countries within Schengen it's enough with national ID.
For some neighbouring countries, like the Scandinavian countries, ID card is also sufficient, but I don't know where else that's the case.

Indeed, indeed! And the UK is one of the few countries which decided it wasn't cool to join in. What a pity, Stee

Just to passport nitpick: You can use EU ID cards thoughout the EU instead of a passport (including in the UK: my mother-in-law has done this). Its just that the UK has no national  ID card scheme... yet. Therefore UK people need a passport. Oh, and I'll be in China next year so no Mittens for me again.

Yeah I know SSH. The easiest way to explain it is to travel around the EU from an EU country you need the national form of ID, which in the UK is the passport. They're almost £80 now, and theyre apparently introducing some new scheme where you need an ID card to apply for a passport, which is an extra £30.

Why do we have so many fucktards in our government? I suppose at least if I was a politician I could claim it on expenses...

[Nacho]

Okay... If it's Italy, I offer myself as a organiser... I speak Spanish (quite similar) and a bit of Italian because of the cycling stuff, and, hey! I have a degree in tourism... It' s my work to organise trips! Remember I did more activities than any other host when you came to Spain, I only made the mistake of setting it in a campsite close to a british pub area... (Errors I won't commit again)

My idea is Toscana, in the countryside, of course, but also close to Roma, Pisa and Firenza...

If somebody wants to help me, I will be glad... if somebody does have something against me doing it (I repeat, if it' s done in Italy) reply now or shut up forever...

-Nacho.

[Miez]

I'd gladly go to Italy, and I wouldn't mind helping out with organising...

Bellissimo! Prego! Ciao bella!

[AGA]

bicilotti is Italian, Nacho. It might be a better idea to let him do it, if he's willing.

[Nacho]

Maybe, but I don't LOVE the idea of someone who never expressed the smaller will to come to mittens to start jumping and running across the room when heards "mittens... close to me? I wanna go! I wanna organise it!!! I love mittens!!!11!!! I LOVE IT!!!".

It's a bit unfair with those who expressed interest before no matter where the meeting is set...

But I don' t want to create polemics... I just say that I don't  LOVE it.. It' s not that I hate the idea or that I dislike it or something... It' s just that I don' t LOVE it...

[Ishmael]

A local is still a local, either you love it or don't or even deep-fry it.

[IndieBoy]

I don't think Bicilotti has expressed himself in such a manner about it all, Nacho. Although I understand your point, but you can't exclude a local from help organise it just because he hasn't been to a mittens before. It's daft and pompus in my book.

[Darth Mandarb]

I do not think it's daft and pompous.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I would much rather it be organized/hosted by people I've met at Mittens before because if I'm going to spend the money (probably will be around 2,000 USD) to come to Italy (or Holland) I don't want to get there and then have everything fall through because it was poorly organized!  Again, I'm not saying Bicilotti wouldn't be capable (or willing - I don't think he expressed interest) I'm just saying I'd be more comfortable with somebody who has Mittens experience were setting things up.

Just my two cents ... I'll be there either way

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.  I see no reason to discriminate (and I choose the word because that's what it amounts to) between someone who has been to a Mittens gathering and someone who has not but who is more than willing to help out.  AGA seems to be very sensible on this issue and he's attended every Mittens gathering to date, and I really don't think the whole 'poorly organized' argument holds any water, Darth; a Mittens regular could just as easily mismanage and make a mess out of plans just because they're human.  I mean, seriously...do you actually mean to tell me you think that someone who attends a group gathering to have fun is now more qualified to organize it?  That's about what the argument sounds like to me, and I'm sorry but that's just hogwash.  Also, he doesn't necessarily need to 'organize' everything to provide important help in the form of location suggestions and translation assistance.

Anyway, since I hate planes and won't be going to Italy this isn't really my business, but since I encouraged Francesco to offer his help I felt somewhat responsible.

[MrColossal]

I'd never been to a mittens before and I hosted and Helm was the host to his first mittens. It'll be fine.

[Layabout]

I've got no reason against Bicolotti hosting a Mittens. He seems interested in doing it and is an upstanding member of the AGS community.

[Nacho]

As I said before, I don't LOVE the idea, but I don't hate it, so the deffense I am going to do of my arguments is going to be quite mild... But Eric, Helm came to Sweden before hosting Mittens Greece.

And for you, well... The circumstances change a bit: M0ds did not host/attended to any mittens before he made the FIRST. Logic. What I mean is that, the lesser mittens we had, the less opportunities people had to attend... So, at the early years, not attending was not an argument against the possibility of having something to see about mittens. In addition, you never had a mittens in your continent till Mittens NY.

Now things have changed: Bicilotti had the possibility to express interest in mittens hosted in his continent for several times and he expressed no interest at all... And now he is the biggest mittens fan ever? Okay... Let' s say it was a coincidence...

And Prog... No one has expressed the idea of Bicilotti not being able to do it, or not being allowed to attend,  or suggested that "Francesco is not a good guy". So, stop strawmanning...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man#In_logic_and_rhetoric
What we say is that hosting mittens is a great honour, something sorta reserved for someone "important" for those who attended mittens before or someone special for the community in general, as happened with Eric... I am just saying that labelling "Host" to someone who never attended to mittens or made anything "special" in the community (Set where I include myself, and 98% of the AGSers) might be a bit unfair... Nowadays with the internet you can organise a mittens in italy from, let' s say... Australia!

Layabout has expressed his will to organise a mittens, and he has attended a few... I would be more "comfortable" if he is the lead organiser (I know he and Disco have been making a good research of villas already) and Bicilotti is the "main assistant" or something... As you see, it' s more a discussion of "semanthics" and "labels" than a real "I don't want him to host it!!1111one!!" complain.

I turn very picky sometimes when it' s about labels...  

[Darth Mandarb]

and I really don't think the whole 'poorly organized' argument holds any water, Darth; a Mittens regular could just as easily mismanage and make a mess out of plans just because they're human.  I mean, seriously...do you actually mean to tell me you think that someone who attends a group gathering to have fun is now more qualified to organize it?

Yes.  A person who has been to Mittens knows how the week plays out, what kind of events people like (and don't like), what we've done before, etc.  I should think this was common sense? I never said a person who hasn't been to Mittens couldn't manage it, just that I would prefer somebody with Mittens experience to organize it.  It's called an opinion.  No hogwash involved, just an opinion that holds water just fine   Seriously ... I tested it in the lab, no water leaked.

Also

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I ...

[Nacho]

Francesco's a good guy; he's been on the forums a good while now and I've talked to him a good deal.  I even talked to him about this very issue and I now rather regret to have encouraged him to offer his assistance considering some of the replies.

I make this statement in no way directed toward Bicilotti (as I've always enjoyed his "company" on the forums!) but I ...

[/quote]

Straw men... They are cool, and they can make you win internet fights... When the audience is stupid, of course. Fortunatelly here it is not.

[bicilotti]

Relax fellows, relax!

[...] he doesn't necessarily need to 'organize' everything to provide important help in the form of location suggestions and translation assistance.

That effectively summarises the way I feel about it.

[Grundislav]

I have to disagree with the "Mittens attendees make better organizers/hosts" argument.

The only real requirement to being the organizer, as said before, is finding a location.  Once everyone arrives, the host doesn't HAVE to know where to go or what to do, it's not a requirement to have fun.  Sure, it might increase the possibilities if a local knows where to go and what to do, but Mittens France was mainly organized by AGA, and even though we didn't really speak French or know where anything was, we still had fun and found our way around.  Exploration is what adventuring is all about, right?

So yeah, regardless of where we have it or who organizes it, us AGSers always find something to do.

[Darth Mandarb]

** ducks out of a pointless debate that is going nowhere and that shouldn't have been started in the first place **

I really don't care who organizes it or what location is chosen.  I'll be there either way.

[Snarky]

The only way to resolve this disagreement is to set up two competing Mittens and see which one is more successful.

[Stupot]

I agree with Grundy.
I can't see how having a first time Mitteneer as the "host" would be such a disaster.  To me, the majority of their role takes place in the pre-stages (booking a venue, getting numbers, taking money, and sure, maybe looking into some possible activities).  

But on the day, when everyone is together and has a few drinks down their necks, the fun should take care of itself.  It's not up to the host to make sure everyone is enjoying themselves, although they might feel irrationally responsible if everyone was having a shit time.  But from what I've heard Mittens is never a shit time, and I dream of attending one year, regardless of who is hosting.

[AGA]

I made very little effort to actually organise anything at the Mittens I "hosted", aside from the quiz. Everything else people basically decided among themselves.

[Disco]

The only way to resolve this disagreement is to set up two competing Mittens and see which one is more successful.

Well the way it looks now, one Mittens will have 4 solid members while the other Mittens will have 12, with 9 more divided equally (let's assume anyways ) between the two.

[Privateer Puddin']

Yeah, I don't see why the host needs to have stuff planned out, find a decent house for us to rent, perhaps knowledge of nearby stuff people might want to go do / see and just let people decide as a group what they want to do.

[Nacho]

I can't see how having a first time Mitteneer as the "host" would be such a disaster.

Nobody said anything about a "disaster". Nobody said anything about the difficulties... Stop the straw men. What I said is that it's unfair. Period. But I am off, if the possible hosts do not want to deffend their rights it's not me who must do it, I am tired of fighting with windmills alone.

End of discussion. Mittens will be made in the place that Disco made campaign for and will be hosted by someone who never expressed the smallest interest in attending. Weeeeh!

[Stupot]

Nacho, your bringing up of straw men is the biggest straw man of this entire thread.

[Becky]

What the hell is going on here?  There is no reason why this should be an issue.  Some people's posts are way out of line here.

[Darth Mandarb]

So ... are we changing the location to Italy?

[Nacho]

Nacho, your bringing up of straw men is the biggest straw man of this entire thread.

Which one? Do you really know what a straw man is? Straw man is this:

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Presenting and refuting a weakened form of an opponent's argument can be a part of a valid argument. For example, one can argue that the opposing position implies that at least one of two other statements - both being presumably easier to refute than the original position - must be true. If one refutes both of these weaker propositions, the refutation is valid and does not fit the above definition of a "straw man" argument."

When I say:
-It's unfair for the previous mittens attendants to give the host to someone who never attended.
And "people" reply:
-But he is able to do it! (Did I say he can't?) But he deserves respect! (Did I say he does not?)

People is replying to me to something I never said... And it' s probably the most annoying thing that can be made to me in the internet... I hate it.

Now please, Stupot, quote when I did the same in this thread, I would be gratefull to take note of it for not commiting the mistake in the future.

[Disco]

We don't have a firm host Nacho, please stop worrying about it Like has been said, it is just advice from a local and the internet. About 5 people so far have said they would organise or help organise, and IO don't see why we can't just get a few properties in mind and discuss those much like we are now. Some years, including this one, we had a couple properties and took everyone's preferences into consideration. Fransisco showed us two properties that worked for us and we chose from there. Wherever next Mittens is will likely be the same.

It is not like this is a situation where it is one person making 100% of the arrangements anymore.

[Becky]

It's unfair for the previous mittens attendants to give the host to someone who never attended

And I guess you could say that it's unfair for you to host another Mittens when you've hosted one before?  This is just ridiculous.  It's not about "fairness", it's about practicality and willingness to do so.  I don't personally give two shits who hosts, because as we've discussed, basically the person hosting books the property or whatever and then we all go from there as a group.  I think you're overexaggerating how big an issue this actually is.

[Darth Mandarb]

Okay ... everybody just needs to calm down a skosh!!

Nacho (and I) expressed opinions that were misinterpreted and then unnecessarily blown way out of proportion!  Let's just drop the issue and get back on topic here!

If it helps I can offer up some virtual hugs (or hand-shakes if hugs make any of you uncomfortable?)

[Nacho]

My reasons about not wanting Bicilotti as a host are based on:

-Tradition.
-Justice (Or, to be expressed better... my perception of justice).

Anyone wanting to argue with me in that terms, I will be here. I can perfectly accept to be told "Hey Nacho! Tradition is not so important!" or "Nacho... It's not about justice, we are dutch and we don't really give a fuck about hosting this or not". Honestly... I can accept that. Actually, discussion should have been over if someone said that to me from the beginning... Over with a simply and gentle "Ok! No worries! " By me.

To all the people replying to me thinking that I used the following arguments:

-I don' t like Bicilotti.
-I don't respect Bicilotti.
-Bicilotti is too stupid to host mittens.

Well... Shut the fuck up, and FUCK UPstop it! I never said that. It's exausting to fight for something you believe, but if you are proved wrong al least it's a big reward to learn why the other was right... trying to make people realise that you haven't actually said that thing they think you said is not exausting or can bring a reward at the end... It' s just annoying and stupid.

And Becky, yes... It should be unfair to me to host a second mittens, that's why I changed my proposition to host it to Ryan as soon as I noticed it... So, include this issue in the list of things I am not going to reply.

[MillsJROSS]

The reason I'm kind of against Italy is that there's a lot of pull to do touristy things. I like touristy things, and I think part of Mittens is absorbing a little bit of another culture. However, I like doing touristy things when my goal is to be a tourist. I don't want to be a tourist often at Mittens, I'm coming to hang out with people and have a few laughs, not to educate myself or take in the sites. Not that Italy prevents me from hanging out with people, but I get the feeling people are looking at going to Mittens from a tourist perspective, when in reality we'll probably only do touristy things 25-30% of the time.

However, I don't honestly care one way or the other between the two locations, because they're just background to the actual event. I'm going to Mittens either way. The only thing that should really matter is "how much will it cost us" and "how many people can we house". If it's cheaper in Italy and we can house more people, by all means, let's do it. And visa versa. So why not search for housing and let the numbers make our decision for us?

-MillsJROSS

[Pesty]

Holy cowzalive, guys. This is kind of amazing.

Here is what I propose for right now. Let's look at places in BOTH Holland and Italy. Houses, places we might want to visit, etc. If we find an amazing deal on a place, with enough room for those interested and a good price, we put it on a list. We, as a group, can be the hosts, no matter where it takes place. It's helpful to have locals, but unnecessary. As for any argument over who has the right to be a host, it should be anyone willing to do what little work is involved to be the host. Period.

As soon as we start making it elitist and only allow certain people to do things, we begin to fall apart as a community and then Mittens becomes less "buddies hangin' out havin' fun" and more "only the cool kids get to go".

Am I saying that Darth or Nacho are proposing this? Not so much, no, but it's treading a dangerous path. I appreciate their point, but our chaos has worked well in the past, and will continue to work well, no matter who books the house and "hosts".

[AGA]

Holy cowzalive, guys. This is kind of amazing.

Here is what I propose for right now. Let's look at places in BOTH Holland and Italy. Houses, places we might want to visit, etc. If we find an amazing deal on a place, with enough room for those interested and a good price, we put it on a list. We, as a group, can be the hosts, no matter where it takes place. It's helpful to have locals, but unnecessary. As for any argument over who has the right to be a host, it should be anyone willing to do what little work is involved to be the host. Period.

As soon as we start making it elitist and only allow certain people to do things, we begin to fall apart as a community and then Mittens becomes less "buddies hangin' out havin' fun" and more "only the cool kids get to go".

Am I saying that Darth or Nacho are proposing this? Not so much, no, but it's treading a dangerous path. I appreciate their point, but our chaos has worked well in the past, and will continue to work well, no matter who books the house and "hosts".

Come back when you've been to at least 5 Mittenses.

[Miez]

I'm changing my vote to Estonia before WWIII breaks out in this thread!

[Domino]

Enough...I will be hosting Mittens 2010 in Buffalo New York. 

[Snarky]

Well, I'm having my own Mittens, and it will be the best ever! (PS: None of you are invited.)

I have nothing helpful to contribute to this thread.

[Stupot]

http://www.identity-links.com/gloves-mittens-c-211_417_510.html

Personalised Mittens for all attendees!

[Layabout]

The reason I'm kind of against Italy is that there's a lot of pull to do touristy things. I like touristy things, and I think part of Mittens is absorbing a little bit of another culture. However, I like doing touristy things when my goal is to be a tourist. I don't want to be a tourist often at Mittens, I'm coming to hang out with people and have a few laughs, not to educate myself or take in the sites. Not that Italy prevents me from hanging out with people, but I get the feeling people are looking at going to Mittens from a tourist perspective, when in reality we'll probably only do touristy things 25-30% of the time.

However, I don't honestly care one way or the other between the two locations, because they're just background to the actual event. I'm going to Mittens either way. The only thing that should really matter is "how much will it cost us" and "how many people can we house". If it's cheaper in Italy and we can house more people, by all means, let's do it. And visa versa. So why not search for housing and let the numbers make our decision for us?

-MillsJROSS

I kind of Agree with this. While there are some places that are a must visit in Italy, I think most of this could be done before/after mittens if people so please. It is a backdrop, but hey, Italy is a stunning backdrop. 35-40 degree heat, that crisp mediterreanean air, the smell of fresh pasta in the distance. mmm hummm.

Any place we will get will probably be about 2 hours from Rome, so it would most likely end up with Rome being a place to visit before or after the event.

[Disco]

Just a few places I found in Italia-

Le Vecchie Case (farmhouse): Accommodations broken up in two like in France, 22 people, £1,851/â,¬2,166/$3,036 weekly.

Villa Ribino: Near Florence, which should be cool and a possible travel hub, sleeps up to 30, which should make £4,735-£5,923 ($9,714) easier to absorb if we get that many people to go  Would work out cheaper than Miami still if at least 28 go.

I looked for ones in Holland but could not find one for 20+, highest I saw was 14. I'll check some other sites as there must be something.

These are just the first few I found, will check out some more after sleep.

[Layabout]

Screw the houses. They are for simpletons. What we need is a Castle!

http://www.tuscanynow.com/Rentals/Villas/Castello_di_Magrano_PriceID_4978.aspx

[mouthuvmine]

I've been observing this with interest, as i reallllly want to go to the next mittens now. i like a real challenge, so I'm going to Snarky's.

[Nacho]

Hehe... Lots of funny replies! I am happy everything is back to normal. Now, what do we do? What Snarky and some other people suggested? Let' s start exploring both possibilities and decide after a little competition, like in the Olympic Games?

[Tuomas]

I'd be voting for Netherlands because I find them more interesting personally. Also, I wish to buy myself some wooden shoes. But I'm not sure if my vote is to be taken seriously, as I've been a maybe patient for at least 5 years in a row

Anyway, to Netherlands, I'd certainly try to come... if it weren't for my girlfriend planning a all-around-the-bloody-world-interrail trip for the next summer

[Gamer_V]

Everybody who votes for the Netherlands is just doing it for the whores and drugs!

[Miez]

Everybody who votes for the Netherlands is just doing it for the whores and drugs!

NEWS FLASH - there's whores and drugs in OTHER countries as well! Seriously: if this is the only thing that's going to bring you over here, then please don't bother coming...

[Gamer_V]

Everybody who votes for the Netherlands is just doing it for the whores and drugs!

NEWS FLASH - there's whores and drugs in OTHER countries as well! Seriously: if this is the only thing that's going to bring you over here, then please don't bother coming...

Hi! I'm Dutch myself. Maybe I should've used a

[Miez]

Everybody who votes for the Netherlands is just doing it for the whores and drugs!

NEWS FLASH - there's whores and drugs in OTHER countries as well! Seriously: if this is the only thing that's going to bring you over here, then please don't bother coming...

Hi! I'm Dutch myself. Maybe I should've used a

Aaaaahhhh. Ok. In that case, never mind my comment
But all you freeloading foreigners (m0ds excluded): take note!  

[AGA]

I've been to Amsterdam before, drugs and whores aren't very interesting really. I'd still like a Hollandish Mittens though.

[GarageGothic]

My main reason for voting Amsterdam is to hear what horribly inappropriate comments CJ would make at the Anne Frank house.

[Darth Mandarb]

My main reason for voting Amsterdam is to hear what horribly inappropriate comments CJ would make at the Anne Frank house.

I tingle with anticipation ... after shuddering at Auschwitz  

If we are voting, I'd vote for Holland as well!  Only because, as Mills said, I'd want to do all the touristy stuff in Italy (Rome, Pompeii, etc) and that's not (in my limited experience) what Mittens is about!  Well that ... and I've always wanted to travel to Holland.

** goes off to amazon to find some wooden clogs ... **

[Layabout]

If you are going to europe, you might as well stay for a couple of weeks, 1 week of mittens, 1 week of touristy stuff. Tis what I and many other would do most likely.

And did I forget to mention...

[Nacho]

Okay, if we are voting, Lore and me are for Netherlands as well... Does she need to post it here or do you believe me?

[Becky]

Well if we're all going for Holland now... then I'm up for it!

[Stupot]

Why not some kind of Amsterdam-Rome road trip... Maybe hire some cars or a minibus, or whatever, and spend a day or two in various cities along the way, while also checking out the gorgeous European scenery.

I want to see what happens if you burn a flaming efigy of the Pope at the gates of the Vatican.

[Nacho]

Why not some kind of Amsterdam-Rome road trip... Maybe hire some cars or a minibus, or whatever, and spend a day or two in various cities along the way, while also checking out the gorgeous European scenery.

I want to see what happens if you burn a flaming efigy of the Pope at the gates of the Vatican.

No to both.

[Pesty]

Hey. Hey.

Layabout makes a good point.

Let's stay in a castle. There are castles in Holland right.

[Disco]

Yeah that would be cool,  but I'm afraid after that it would then be downhill from that Mittens on, accomodationwise

[Nacho]

Yes, I think we shouldn't try to improve the mittens experience at all... Otherwise the following years it would be in downhill... I vote for making a really shitty one every five or six years, so, the following won't be able to do anything else than going up!

[AGA]

We already stayed in a château.

[Stupot]

Lets go mountain-climbing in Holland

[monkey0506]

Regardless of where it's at my entire pre-planning can be summed up as follows:

I am going.

Of course that being for the Nth year running I've said that it's a possibility... ...I would really, really, really like to go. And every year it does actually get increasingly likely that I shall be able to attend. That is, my ability to attend is directly proportional to the year in question. The only question then remaining is...what exactly is the proportion???

[jetxl]

I vote Italy and I like Nacho as host, since it's his job and all.

But I think we shouldn't vote but decide based on price v. amount of people it can house v. luxury.
After a few minutes of searching I found that there are indeed castles for rent in Netherland, but they don't like to give away the price (maybe because it'll knock you off you chair???), while renting a castle in Italy is like renting a car...

[Privateer Puddin']

while renting a castle in Italy is like renting a car...

A very dangerous thing to do because Italian drivers are crazy?

[Nacho]

I don' t wanna host, but I will definitelly make a search and do a little profile with touristic places to visit, and I will print a dossier for anyone wanting to join the adventurers in those excursions... 

[m0ds]

Ahh well good to see this has come back around & luckily self moderated itself It seems it's swinging back round to Holland, so I agree with those who said look at places and prices for both locations. I'm personally in agreement with Mills, I do Mittens for the hanging out rather than the sight-seeing, but I guess it's just a matter of personal taste. For example, there's nothing in Holland I'd want to re-visit. You seen one art gallery, you've seen them all. One shoe factory, ditto... The only tourist thing left there is to visit the Heineken museum, literally the only place in Amsterdam I haven't been. So Holland, would for me, be max hanging out on site and minimal going to look at stuff, but I know Italy would be different. Although I'd be more than happy to hang out and not go see some famous stuff, I'd still have too. And I'm sure Mills would find himself standing up slowly & heading slowly toward a car & then peering from a car window at some tourist stuff before getting out slowly and walking slowly down a street to slowly take some fascinating stuff in before slowly returning to Mittens HQ and slowly getting drunk...

Anyway, that's all personal taste into location information. Back to getting positive & constructive about this. I'm pretty sure this is only the second time in Mittens history that it hasn't been officially decided at previous event. At Mittens it needs to be imperative that everyone gets together, as one large group, and decides so as never to have to suffer this wonderous banter from Farlander & Darth Mandarb ever again...

Also, as suggested by jet & others, lets all have a look at Holland accomodations and Italian ones - help each other out, we can even make a list of places people want to go/see and have that with us in advance, rather than not knowing where or what to do at actual Mittens (and yes, that does happen ) ! I'll do some searching thru the week.

I really just wanted to say "Hey, keep this thread on topic!" but hey....you finally are again now And really the only other thing I wanted to say was if we go to Italy, I will def. make another BJ film! But no, not in Holland. In Holland I will try and create a time machine and go back and destroy Rotterdam & Rome to make sure I never hear that song about places that could be rotterdam or rome.

[Nacho]

Actually, Mark, the group of people who was there when we decided it was Holland was bigger than ever... At least, bigger than when we decided we were going to Spain or Miami.

If the rest of the people was outside eating falafel it's not our fault.. Maybe if they warned the others that a significant group of people was going to go outside for dinner there could have been more people together, but they didn' t.  ^_^ 0:)

[Becky]

Hey, I went out to eat falafel and still spoke to people about Holland! It happened on many occasions throughout the week.

[Layabout]

Actually, Mark, the group of people who was there when we decided it was Holland was bigger than ever... At least, bigger than when we decided we were going to Spain or Miami.

If the rest of the people was outside eating falafel it's not our fault.. Maybe if they warned the others that a significant group of people was going to go outside for dinner there could have been more people together, but they didn' t.  ^_^ 0:)

Miami was decided in a similar thread to this two years ago, just after Canada mitteners in one car decided it would be France. Fran did not know this at the time, so offered to host it. Instead we had France, then we had Miami. This seems to be history repeating itself. Like I said, my vote is for Italy, and anyway, there is always the oppourtunity to sightsee after mittens and have mittens as a mitteny type thing. In a haunted castle. Chateaus don't count as castles AGA. Too french and not castley enough.

[m0ds]

In a haunted castle. Chateaus don't count as castles AGA. Too french and not castley enough.

Haha yeah! I'd definitely go to Mittens even if it was in Slough if it meant an actual haunted castle with turret things!

[Nacho]

So... where do we go?

[Layabout]

Lets have Mittens on the Moon.

[zabnat]

Lets have Mittens on the Moon.

And the cost of travel and accommodation will drop off those cheapskates we don't want to see anyway?

[Wesray]

I am definitely interested in attending the next Mittens, would be my first.

The Italian border is half an hour from were I live and the Netherlands are not that hard to reach either, so both options would be fine with me. I have been in the Tuscany before, it's a really beautiful region. The Netherlands I haven't visited yet, but I've wanted to go there for some time now.

If it's the moon, I have to pass though! Not that I'm cheap, but zero-G isn't my thing...

[FruitTree]

there's 1/6th G on the moon!
and how could that NOT be your thing?!

[AGA]

Just think of the trampoline tricks you could do in that environment.

[Pumaman]

So... where do we go?

Every year after Mittens we have a big excited thread about next year's Mttens.

And every year we then forget about it and pick it up again in January when people actually have a better idea of what else they're going to be doing in the summer

[Pesty]

If you're really antsy, do what I suggested and start scoping spaces, sirs. Holland, Italy, the Moon, wherever! CJ's right, though, we don't really seriously start thinking about it until like January, when it's a bit more realistic to plan.

Don't worry, guys, it really doesn't matter where we're at. We're adventure gamers. We can make any place fun.

[Peder 🚀]

Lets have it in the north instead! All the way on top of Norway for example .

Joke aside, Italy sounds more tempting to me, but I would be interested in coming no matter where it is!
Hopefully I will be able to attend my first mittens in 2010! ^^.


Also to be an idiot and bring up something youve all forgot long time ago, when did Bicilotti show any sign of being like this?

"mittens... close to me? I wanna go! I wanna organise it!!! I love mittens!!!11!!! I LOVE IT!!!".

Or were you just being sarcastic?

I really think if it end up being Italy that Bicilotti would make an excellent organizer!
Besides, as it was mentioned it would be good anyway to actually have a LOCAL help with the organizing.

Anyway, I am hoping I'll be able to come!
After a good (though unfortnatly VERY short ) experience at Brittens this is something I'd really like to be able to attend!

[zabnat]

Lets have it in the north instead! All the way on top of Norway for example .

Yes, Let's all go to the Svalbard to have a meet. Could be interesting.

I really think if it end up being Italy that Bicilotti would make an excellent organizer!
Besides, as it was mentioned it would be good anyway to actually have a LOCAL help with the organizing.

I agree, if not organizing the whole event I think local help will be very welcome. I've been to Italy and even in a place where there are a lots of tourists, not everyone spoke english, even at the professions or places you would expect. I was hoping to go to mittens this year, but it being in other side of the pond and me being laid off, well... So maybe this year will be closer, maybe I could even drive there (well I couldn't drive to Svalbard since I don't own a boat...).

[Layabout]

Australia is great. They speak english, even in winter it's 20 Celcius during the day and we have big things like the big pinapple, the big sheep, the big banana. :p

[Peder 🚀]

And awfully large amounts of dangerous animals? .

[Gord10]

We are planning an Italy vacation with my sister for 2010 summer. I will have a chance (not that big, though) to visit you if you do it in Rome.

[DutchMarco]

While I like the ide of staying in Australia (I actually have my mind set on backpacking in NZ, which is close by), I haven't considered it for Mittens (don't get upset) and while I really love the accent Ozzy and Kiwi girls have, I have started a new thread, thinking that this one was already closed, and posted some links with possible venues in different countries (UK, NL, Italy and France), since the kind of venue was my primary criterion. I'm sure you'll all find something of interest here (or post a venue yourselves):

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=38771.msg510194#msg510194

[DutchMarco]

See above post for more information pertaining