New text adventure!

[advent]

I found a new amateur text adventure! Here's the download link:
http://www.zaksite.co.uk/fanart_files/ZAK0.zip

It's made as if it werea prequel to the famous LucasArt's ''Zak McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders'' game.

You can save and restore just typing ''Save'' and ''Restore''

[Radiant]

Okay. Can I assume that you wrote this? Sorry to say, but it's rather lacking in quality. The first thing I noticed was a lot of errors in spelling and grammar, on the first screen. The second thing I noticed was that the game didn't respond in any way to the first group of commands that came to mind (e.g. take fishbowl, look under bed, talk to sushi, pick up phone). With a first impression like that, I'm not going to play on.

[lo_res_man]

Besides, there is PLENTY of home brewed interactive fiction out there, quite a bit of it higher quality then this, though the IDEA (a I.F. version of an old GRAPHIC game) sounds interesting.

[advent]

You can type ''Get Sushi'', ''use phone'', ''use bed'' and open desk.

[Exorph]

You can type ''Get Sushi'', ''use phone'', ''use bed'' and open desk.

"Use" is not a verb most people enjoy using in IFs. It should be "Lay in bed" and "dial phone" for example.

[Kweepa]

"Use" is not a verb most people enjoy using in IFs. It should be "Lay in bed" and "dial phone" for example.

I realise that's the convention, but there's a case to be made for accepting "use" when the intent is obvious - when something has one clear use. For example, "use bed" is almost certainly "lie on bed" and should probably be accepted as one way of lying on the bed, whereas "use phone" is a bit hazy and should probably elicit "You'll have to be more specific."
There are more obvious examples where "use" could work:
use sun tan lotion (rather than e.g. "apply sun tan lotion to me")
use light switch (rather than the clumsy "throw light switch" "switch light switch" etc)
use ladder
use key in lock
Clearly these should be provided as alternatives, not the only way to get things done, but if the intent is obvious, why ignore the input?

[Radiant]

I realise that's the convention, but there's a case to be made for accepting "use" when the intent is obvious - when something has one clear use. For example, "use bed" is almost certainly "lie on bed" and should probably be accepted as one way of lying on the bed,

I disagree. In the IF genre, suspension-of-disbelief is increased by using actual English phrasing, rather than the lazy 'use' verb. Indeed, any IF game with a halfway decent parser will balk at "look window" and "use door" (but not at "drop all keys except the black one" or "greet Phil and give the apple to him")

[Ghormak]

I don't see how typing correct English sentences into the parser helps suspend disbelief much... the great thing about the parser is that it's so flexible. You can type complex sentences that work nicely the way you intended if you really want to, but you can also simplify and the game will understand what you mean.

You don't type "Please computer, I would like walk through the doorway to the north". You don't even type "go north". You type "n".

So I agree with SteveMcCrea, if the intent is blatantly obvious, why not allow the verb 'use'?
Though I must say, I can't think of any situation where I have used the verb 'use' in an IF. I probably have though, since I tend to choose the words that require the least typing. 'Get' instead of 'take', 'turn off' instead of 'extinguish', and of course the various abbreviations commonly found in IF games.

[Radiant]

Though I must say, I can't think of any situation where I have used the verb 'use' in an IF.

Exactly. "Use" is rarely if ever blatantly obvious. There is (obviously) a difference between allowing abbrev for common words or phrases such as "examine", and allowing a catch-all word to do most anything even if it really doesn't mean that in English. If you allow "use" in an IF, people will start "use"ing everything to see what the intent of an object is. And that breaks SoD.

Nobody "uses" a button, book, television or rope in daily life. You push/read/turn on/tie/climb them.

[Kweepa]

Nonsense. People "use" things all the time. See my examples.

[Radiant]

Nonsense. People "use" things all the time. See my examples.

Nonsense. If you would speak those phrases IRL, people would be confused by them.

[Khris]

This "adventure" was made using Text World.
IF is something else.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=26769.0

[Exorph]

Nonsense. People "use" things all the time. See my examples.

Aww, I'm so tired.. I'm gonna use the light switch and then use my bed.
For some reason that doesn't sound right at all.

I have to say it's a good thing not to use the use verb.
Yeah, it might be obvious what it means from time to time, but I see no reason why the obvious should somehow be an exception. Sleeping might be the obvious use for a bed, but there are still so many other things it could be used for, so why should you let the IF select sleeping for you if you type in the word USE, when it's always the player who selects the verb otherwise?

[Erenan]

Steve's right, you guys. If in real life I were to say "remember to use sun tan lotion when you go out in the sun," people wouldn't think anything of it. But that's not important. Steve's point is that if the player's intention is obvious, as is the case in all of Steve's examples, then the game shouldn't complain that you weren't specific enough. If the solution to the puzzle is to squirt sun tan lotion in someone's eyes, then "use" wouldn't be sufficient. But otherwise, it's as clear as day what the player means, and a parser that rejected "use" would appear underdeveloped.

[Radiant]

and a parser that rejected "use" would appear underdeveloped.

Wooo. So what you're saying is that famous IF games such as Zork, A Mind Forever Voyaging and Slouching Towards Bedlam, generally considered the cream of the crop among fans, appear underdeveloped? I think someone needs to use a cluebat on you.

[Kweepa]

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

[advent]

ADRIFT is better to make text adventures, I'm making two projects with ADRIFT:
1. A HUGE medieval fantastic game with RPG battles.

2. A textbased remake of Monkey Island 1.

[Erenan]

Wooo. So what you're saying is that famous IF games such as Zork, A Mind Forever Voyaging and Slouching Towards Bedlam, generally considered the cream of the crop among fans, appear underdeveloped?

Wait... Did I say that? I can't find where I said that.

What I'm saying is that forcing the player to guess another verb to get the game to understand what he wants to do when it's already perfectly clear is poor parser development. The only reasons I can think of for that are that the programmer was lazy or that the programmer was cruel and heartless (and lazy).

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

I don't agree to that!

Well, okay.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Nonsense. People "use" things all the time. See my examples.

Nonsense. If you would speak those phrases IRL, people would be confused by them.

Wait, are you actually saying you've never used a phone before, Radiant?  Never used a bicycle pump on a flat tire?  You actually haven't used anything?  :

[Helm]

use sun tan lotion (rather than e.g. "apply sun tan lotion to me")

whereas I agree with leaving use in there for that for example, and generally not carpet-blocking 'use' for an IF engine, I can think of a lot of obfuscated uses for sun tan lotion in an adventure game, so that goes for something as far as 'obvious' uses goes. Obvious in real life sure, but adventure games are not real life. The game design has to gentle suggest the themes of the game and the appropriate commands to be used. In real life I don't 'examine bed' either, nor do I go 'north' but it's an IF convention for a reason.  It encourages and reenforces some things (inventive and specific usages of things) and it discourages some others (pointless-clickery-type USE MY MOM ON DOOR LOL). Exceptions exist where an application of something can IFingly be covered by the generic USE, but exceptions don't make a strong case.

whereas I use with using use in there for that for example, and generally not carpet-using 'use' for an IF engine, I can use of a lot of obfuscated uses for sun tan lotion in an adventure game, so that uses for something as far as 'obvious' uses goes. Obvious in real life sure, but adventure games are not real life. The game design has to gentle use the themes of the game and the appropriate commands to be used. In real life I don't 'use bed' either, nor do I use 'north' but it's an IF convention for a reason.  It uses and uses some things (inventive and specific usages of things) and it uses some others (pointless-clickery-type USE MY MOM ON DOOR LOL). Exceptions use where an application of something can IFingly be use by the generic USE, but exceptions don't use a strong case. YUS.