Nimbus! - AGS Steam - PreAlpha release

[Dualnames]

"Now, would you consider it a positive or negative if Nexus only accepted games which would be considered 'proper games' and not anything that is submitted."

Is there an answer in specific that would somehow rule out the other? The two points are highly subjective and at terms appear to be correct.

There's a comment for HHGTG.

This has the honour of being crowned the most frustrating game I have ever played in my whole life (and believe me, I have played a lot!). The puzzles are completely non-sensical, the dead-ends and deaths constant, and the number of possibilities to try is massive. I would not recommend it unless you love a huge challenge, have a lot of time on your hands, and are very tolerant!
Also, I had quite a few problems with the game crashing and errors when trying to load saved game. In the end I had to give up completely because the drop button disappeared for some reason, I suppose a bug, and so I couldn't continue.

As the game is long, the manipulation of the inventory is also a big problem. It takes an awful lot of time to remember where different items have been stored and to extract them so that they can be used.

That means the game shouldn't be played by anyone. And it may be correct. I can explain why this comment has no sense at all IMHO, but that's not related here.

And there's a comment for my first ags game.

Amazing game.the best of AGS ever.

Does that mean the up-above is true, and the down-above is wrong? Or vice-versa? It's up to anyone to judge if a game is worth it. I honestly think moving to an elitist would be a terrible move. Yes it would increase the quality of the nexus database. And the arrogance aura all around. I would be very disappointed to see that happen. And if the Nexus and AGS db are at some point linked to each other, then imagine what will happen on bad ratings.

The best approach if you choose the elitist way, would be to discuss the game with each author's game that you're not sure whether it should be eliminated. It may be tedious but less insulting than taking the action on your own. That means you accept all games with 3 and more rating from the panel, instantly. And games that you're sure of their quality. And then have some audition for those you're eliminating or not sure.

Just my thoughts.

[Calin Leafshade]

My concern is more about things like training games and games that are impossible to play.

Hitchhikers would easily meet the kind of requirements i'm thinking of.

[Mr Flibble]

I haven't read the whole thread but have you considered adding emulation support so DOS AGS games will work straight from Nexus? That'd be a pretty cool feature.

On the current topic, if you're just taking games that people are volunteering for the service, I doubt you really have to worry about people submitting games that are utterly unplayable. Maybe the simplest way to remedy this is to only accept games that have had over a certain number of downloads? I can see where you're coming from, wanting to present a cream of the crop type showcase where every game on the system was potentially worth a download, but I also feel like Nexus would be massively useful as a way just to download any old game at all.

Even one that looks so bad you wouldn't usually bother, but you now can, due to the simplicity.

[GarageGothic]

I think restricting distribution would subvert at least what I see as the main attraction of Nexus - namely an efficient way to try out all those smaller games that I currently can't be bothered with because I know I'll just have a ton of awkwardly named .zip files and temporary folders in my download folder that I never get around to deleting.

Nexus is perfect for something like MAGS, OROW or hour games, where you know that you're most likely not going to keep the games. The larger games, which are often the ones getting high cup ratings, I don't mind installing in my games folder to return to later, but the real benefit of Nexus to me would be a fast and clutter-free way to try out all those "lesser" games, that often prove very inspiring despite their flaws but at the moment doesn't seem worth the trouble.

I'm guessing Nexus would have the same, if not more, sorting methods as the current DB, so if you wish just leave the "Don't show games with less than two cups" filter on by default.

[Dualnames]

I find Nexus as GG said ideal for Nexus, and despite its one cup rating, and indeed more of a student's art project than a game, to accomplish more than HHGTG set out to achieve IMHO. Even if it has lesser than 8000 downloads or so, I'm more proud for Disquiet. Even if it took 7 days instead of 2.5 years. I find myself to believe that HHGTG evolved my skills on the technical compartment. Where Disquiet is the direction I've been meaning to find all this time.

Assuming that disquiet is one of your worries in terms of quality, I'd like to hear your thoughts and discuss this further.

[Calin Leafshade]

You all make excellent points... this is why i post here

I think a filtering system is the best approach. Allowing hardcore users to search for the less mainstream palatable games.

On the topic of MAGs and so on, I actually plan to have a 'collections' systems whereby users can download all the Mags games for a particular month in a single click.

EDIT:

Dual, disquiet wasn't specifically on my mind no.

Although it only got one cup I still think it would satisfy my requirements since it's playable and complete.

[Leon]

My concern is more about things like training games and games that are impossible to play.

Hitchhikers would easily meet the kind of requirements i'm thinking of.

There are 'training games' of a pretty high standard. I believe every first entry of a game maker is a training game.

You have to ask yourself what your goal is with Nexus. Is it easy distribution or is it moderating the quality of games? And what about the panel? It has been proven on this board many times that the 'general public' doesn't always agree with the panel. So indeed, where do you draw the line?

What you could do is a rating system. Let the public rate the games and show these on top or promote them in an ad-section. The 'lesser' games will sink to the bottom (unless searched for). Then, for maintenance purposes, you could remove games that haven't been downloaded in 6 months. It's not that you want to start an archive ... is it?

[Dualnames]

I think a filtering system won't be the best approach. Perhaps a different way. No idea what there should be instead, but I just never liked filtering systems. And their purpose is wrong. There are always game-gems even for 4-5 people.

I think a total lack of panel rating would be great. And just allow comments for people. It depends really. Like I said, I think all 3+ cup games should be there instantly accepted.

Or just put games YOU value. There's not a definite answer to this. At least I can't give one that seems like one.

[Calin Leafshade]

Dual, I'm a little confused by your post.

by 'filtering system' I mean a system where you can search for games based on rating.

I know it's an unfortunate truth but some games are better than others so there needs to be some way to attempt to quantify that.

On the subject of the panel rating I'm still unsure whether I will include it.
I think on balance I am erring of the side of not including it and allowing all rating to be done at the community level.

[Leon]

I know it's an unfortunate truth but some games are better than others so there needs to be some way to attempt to quantify that.

According to who? Better in what?  Graphics, sounds, game play, puzzles? There are games that are praised on this board that I think are total @#$#. Who decides what's good and what's not? It's all a matter of opinion and personal taste.

As said earlier, just create a distribution system, not a quality measuring system. If you want to add that as well, I'm with Dual, just put the games on there that you value.

[Calin Leafshade]

Well I think i'm pretty decided (due to the excellent comments here) that an unregulated (but searchable) database is probably the best solution.

However it's pretty naive to say that all levels of quality are entirely subjective.

if that were true then all games would sell roughly equally and all games would receive similar review scores. You'd see a totally random distribution which is clearly not the case.

Deus Ex is better than Daikatana
Half life is better than GORE(look it up, it's terrible)

obviously some people will hate Deus Ex and they will hate Half Life but it is *useful for the community* to rank Deus Ex higher than Daikatana so it is more easily exposed.

[GarageGothic]

Some kind of review score aggregating feature would be interesting (if not too much of a hassle to implement). Otherwise at least a separate field for review links/quotes so authors won't have to put them in the description text.

[Calin Leafshade]

very few freeware indie games get enough review scores to be aggregated.

Eternally Us got a little bit of press coverage but i don't think a 'score' was ever given.

There will be a community rating feature and a field for developers to link reviews to their games though.

[Dualnames]

I'm with Leon all the way. A search-able database by any kind rating, would just be wrong. It's as wrong as judging a game by downloads.

[Calin Leafshade]

an entirely unrated database with possibly hundreds or thousands of games?

How would that possibly work for the end user?

[Ryan Timothy B]

It's as wrong as judging a game by downloads.

Completely disagree. The rating wouldn't be calculated by download amount, they would be calculated by the average player rating.

I also disagree with disregarding the player rating altogether and having only an alphabetical/genre sort. Nexus would be nearly pointless without it. I only want to play games that people deem worthy. I don't have loads of time where I can play all games from A to Z, it's just not going to work.

[Calin Leafshade]

agreed.

Just because the database has a rating field doesnt mean you have to use it yourself.. you can start at A and work through to Z if you like but i imagine that is not how most people find games to play.

[Radiant]

an entirely unrated database with possibly hundreds or thousands of games?

How would that possibly work for the end user?

Through searching on other criteria. Knowing that a game is of genre "science fiction", or has "640x480 VGA" graphics, or was made by "Blizzard" is much more helpful to me than knowing that "there exists at least one person who thinks this game is great".

Home of the Underdogs had a great feature that "if you like this game, you should also try these three:"

Tag clouds are rather easy to implement, and seem to work rather well on tigsource.

And finally, you could have users submit their Top Ten List of game recommendations, so that I could e.g. find a username that I know and see what ten games he thinks I should play.

[Dualnames]

Radiant just scored gold imho!!!

I want nothing else than what Radiant suggested.

[Calin Leafshade]

While radiant made some good suggestions they are not reasons to drop a rating system.. they are just reasons to add other searching criteria.