NOOO! KQIX shut down by Vivendi

[Snarky]

You know that awesome-looking King's Quest IX fan game? The one in full 3D, with amazing-looking cut scenes, full voice acting and an ambitious plot harking back to the first eight games? The one that should be out in spring 2006?

Vivendi (who own all the old Sierra copyrights) just sent them a cease-and-desist letter.

Details on this page.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

What makes no damn sense to me is why they didn't pursue permission to make it from Vivendi BEFORE putting all that  effort into a 3d engine,etc.  It's a waste just to find out they can't make it anyway.  And please, not the 'because Vivendi wouldn't give them permission' argument...It's groundless since these guys were, as they say, ready and willing to desist the second Vivendi got annoyed.

[Snarky]

If they asked permission, it was almost certain that Vivendi would say no. In that case, they could absolutely not do it.

If they didn't ask permission, there was a chance that Vivendi wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care enough to shut them down.

It was a risk. They always knew it was a risk. But there's no point making out like this is something they had coming. Vivendi are basically acting like dicks for no good reason.

[Gilbert]

Well, since they're doing that much of materials already, I suppose they can just change their game to Prince Quest or whatever, with the world "looking like" a KQ world, but not the KQ world.

[MrColossal]

Since we have no idea why Vivendi shut down kqIX there's no reason to assume they are being dicks for no reason, as the post they wrote said, all the games are being re-re-released so the games are still out there.

They didn't ask permission and they got shut down. If you're going to make a game based on someone else's IP for the love of peter, don't make a website for it until it's done and ready to download.

I hope they can move onto their own stories now and blow us all away.

[Squinky]

It was a fancy-ass website though eric...Damn fancy...

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Eric and I are thinking along the same lines here.  These guys were NOT ignorant of the risks, they even claim to have been prepared for such an eventuality.  With the sheer level of effort put into the engine I don't think it's reasonable to assume they could remain 'under the radar' with such a quality product.  It was bound to draw attention to themselves (it's happened many times to games of much lesser quality).  That's my problem with fangames of this scope, honestly; so much damn talent and effort wasted when they clearly could make an original adventure without any risk of being shut down.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

It's true about the risks and about how they should have contacted them first (isn't that what the old Tierra did, contact Roberta Williams directly or something? And I know for a fact that I contacted Al Lowe - even though Vivenda now held the copyright. I couldn't contact them anyway - I tried but I couldn't. But I digress), but damn, that's a LOT of work, too much to go down the drain.

[TheYak]

And the first segment was due to be released in Q4 of this year, right?  It would've been better had Vivendi stopped it awhile ago.  In either case, alongside their FAQ and pictures, they said that if Vivendi stopped them, they could just change character names, graphics and a couple plot points.  It's odd that the announcement doesn't mention anything about potentially releasing a modified KQIX.   

Vivendi weren't really being dicks, they were protecting an intellectual property that an amateur team seemed to be better at adding to than Sierra was (for KQ8 and IMO KQ7).  It would've provided competition with any attempts at sequels or re-releasing KQ Collections.  As the holders of the IP, it was within their rights and probably best interests.  The fact that Vivendi is a company comprised of dicks and doesn't actually generate a damned thing or have any useful creative input doesn't change the fact that they are no more dickish now than they were prior to September 30th.

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

, they were protecting an intellectual property that an amateur team seemed to be better at adding to than Sierra was

I always thought fan-products meant free publicity and such. Plus, KQ2+VGA was a piece of art and I don't remember anyone bothering about that.

[esper]

If it really is as good as everyone says, why don't they just try to sell it to Vivendi? Does anyone have any links to the developer's page? I'd be interested to see what's going on here.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

For some reason publishers don't offer the truly good fangames an opportunity to complete development under a commercial license.  I'm sure it's a combination of risk (the developer is unknown and less likely to draw attention) and the idea that the fangame creators really didn't have the right to do it in the first place.

[Nikolas]

I can understand the love one might have for a game, or a character, or a story, but I do find it pity to risk all this effort, and from what I've seen it was FANTASTIC! just like that!

I don't know, althought there are at least thousands of lookalikes from Toliens stories (not only the LOTR but also Silmarilion and the Hobbit), no one (I just remember Kinoko here) seemed to try and make a "Fanbook", about Tolkien and thus trying to get permission to do so.

You have a game of HUGE success and 8 (?) sequels (at least) and you decide to do for yourself the 9th? And do a better job than the original ones?

Really if I was Roberta or Vivendi, I would be pissed off for some "punks" (for the shake of argument), trying to steal the glory of KQ series. I would have them kissing my ass and then I would say no...

I'm really sad, but I never thought that this could work... And even worst when doing all this amazing job...

Rui: I have no idea why they didn't come after you for Larry. Maybe you didin't draw so much attention, and still don't, who knows...

Pity though :'(

[jetxl]

KQIX got cancelled because Roberta Williams sucks dog dicks.

[Nacho]

It is a pitty, annoying and such... But I fear everything Vivendi did was correct and ethic. 

[Nikolas]

KQIX got cancelled because Roberta Williams sucks dog dicks.

Do you have a picture of that? Cause I love animal porn pictures...

No really, what would you do if you had created KQ for like 15 years. You were spending all your time on your "child" taking a lot of money from your "child" of course and then one day someone, you don't even know, comes up and says, "Hey! I stole the idea and I did a better job than you ever did!"

How would you feel?

Being a creator, of various things myself, I would say that I would be pissed off, and really if I had the legal right I would shut them down...

I am being the devils' advocate here, but this is the real world... Sorry jet.

[jetxl]

KQIX got cancelled because Roberta Williams sucks dog dicks.

Do you have a picture of that? Cause I love animal porn pictures...

No really, what would you do if you had created KQ for like 15 years. You were spending all your time on your "child" taking a lot of money from your "child" of course and then one day someone, you don't even know, comes up and says, "Hey! I stole the idea and I did a better job than you ever did!"

How would you feel?

Being a creator, of various things myself, I would say that I would be pissed off, and really if I had the legal right I would shut them down...

I am being the devils' advocate here, but this is the real world... Sorry jet.

Exuze moi?
How would the brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Anderson and Mother Goose feel if they saw the product of Roberta Williams, the un-tallented thief, RAPING their stories!!11!!!!1
They would feel cornholed! LET HER CEASE & DESIST! (and let her pick up a piece of glas while she's at it)

Those KQ9 guys, who were spin docter-ing to make sence of the plotline, are hardcore Sierra fans. Vivendi closed them down. Way to show your appreciation for the fans.

[edit] And NO, I don't have animal porn pictures. Google them yourself.

[Kinoko]

I don't know, althought there are at least thousands of lookalikes from Toliens stories (not only the LOTR but also Silmarilion and the Hobbit), no one (I just remember Kinoko here)

Huh? O_O Er, sorry, what... er, that went right over my head. Why am I being mentioned?

[Nikolas]

Jet: first of all relax!

Second all I'm saying (and do try to think that cpyrights don't stay forever but for only 75 years,if i'm not mistaken) is that i can undersatn vivendi and that i wuold be pissed if something like this happened to my game or music.

Of course i know that she stole each and every fairy tale she could get her hands on, but why all the hate? And why towards me, I did say that I'm the devils advocate here.

Relax, when somebody disagees with you you don't have to kill him...

Kinoko: I just remembered you saying something about noone and no one. Just that...

[Kinoko]

OH! Right.

I had NO idea what you were referencing me for.

[Vel]

Damn. It was so good looking and promising.

Well I guess they could change the names of the characters and the title of the game and still release it, no?

[jetxl]

Jet: first of all relax!

Second all I'm saying (and do try to think that cpyrights don't stay forever but for only 75 years,if i'm not mistaken) is that i can undersatn vivendi and that i wuold be pissed if something like this happened to my game or music.

Of course i know that she stole each and every fairy tale she could get her hands on, but why all the hate? And why towards me, I did say that I'm the devils advocate here.

Relax, when somebody disagees with you you don't have to kill him...

Kinoko: I just remembered you saying something about noone and no one. Just that...

Nikolas, only the LAST part was aimed at you. The rest was quite general. [aimed at Nikolas]
Don't you see the irony of kq9 stopping because of copyright infrigment? [aimed general]
I am relaxed. You should read my posts slower. [aimed general]
And I certanly don't hold any grudges if someone disagrees with me.[aimed general]
I wished Helm would make that game about Roberta [aimed at mitteneers]

[Snarky]

Hey, you do realize that Roberta Williams had nothing to do with this, right? She doesn't work for Vivendi, she doesn't own the copyright, she wasn't the one who shut this project down.

It's true about the risks and about how they should have contacted them first (isn't that what the old Tierra did, contact Roberta Williams directly or something? And I know for a fact that I contacted Al Lowe - even though Vivenda now held the copyright. I couldn't contact them anyway - I tried but I couldn't. But I digress), but damn, that's a LOT of work, too much to go down the drain.

In fact, they did contact Ken and Roberta Williams. They were both supportive of the project. This is purely an issue with the current copyright holders, Vivendi.

Since we have no idea why Vivendi shut down kqIX there's no reason to assume they are being dicks for no reason, as the post they wrote said, all the games are being re-re-released so the games are still out there.

No, you're right. They might have a reason for being dicks. Maybe they're planning to make a KQ9 themselves. Maybe they've staked the future of the company on the sales of the new re-released games.

Yeah, right.

I'm sorry, but I can't see any plausible scenario under which KQIX would have any perceivable effect on Vivendi's bottom line. If anything, it would offer free publicity for the King's Quest collection. (The game looked like one long commercial for the previous KQ games.) I'm willing to bet they're only mindlessly adhering to some company policy.

It is a pitty, annoying and such... But I fear everything Vivendi did was correct and ethic.Ã, 

I can't accept the way they've handled this as ethical. Shutting down a five-year long (or so) fan project just as it's nearing completion? Not offer any way for the clearly very talented and dedicated team to work with the company? Disappointing the most long-time fans (probably) of any game the company owns without explanation?

I can see that from a very narrow view of self-interest, Vivendi is acting rationally. They don't want to cede control over their intellectual property, even old licences that are clearly lying unused, because they like having a portfolio of things they might one day want to exploit again. (Compare the resurgence of Prince of Persia.) It's easier for them to only halt fan games as they near completion, because most games never reach that point. And it also discourages other teams from taking the risk of having years of effort wasted.

However, I think this is an incredibly blinkered attitude. Remember, this is the company that publishes Counter Strike, an enormously successful shooter that grew out of a fan-made mod of Half-Life. As long as the company owns the copyright, they would be able to exploit the successful fan games, and simply ignore the unsuccessful ones.

Having people love your games so much that they want to make their own is an incredible asset for a company, and alienating those fans is just short-sighted and, yes, effectively evil.

[Andail]

The game didn't look that awesome to me.
But maybe Kinoko can tell us more about that, right?

PS:
(Let's just keep refering to Kinoko in a random fashion until she freaks out)

[Kinoko]

You mean like... now? O_O

[Raggit]

This may be a great way for me to get flamed, but what is wrong with the rightful owner of a copyrighter work saying, "Listen, we own this idea, not you."?

Now, personally, I don't see why they would choose to stop this individual game, other than the size and magnitude of it would stand to take away sales from the release of the collections.  And if you'll look it up, that is a legal and valid reason for them to request them to stop, and if needed, sue.

What I don't understand is why they don't go after the defamatory projects.  Maybe they will.

And, like was said before, Roberta Williams has nothing to do with this.  In fact, I doubt she even would've had any complaints against the project.  Many of the original creators of these games actually like the fan made games.  In an e-mail to me, Lori Cole praised the VGA remake of QFG2 and other fangames.   (Yes, I really do have an e-mail from her.  I e-mailed Lori Cole from their Transolar site.)

Anyway, that's make take on the situation.

[Kweepa]

There's always the possibility that the game never existed outside of a few screenshots, and this Vivendi letter is a fabrication...

[Squinky]

Thats actaully what I've been thinking too. But I was afraid to face the angru mobs by saying it. The game to me looked like any other team fan game that will never, ever, get done. I think they wanted a way out that would get them a little something to bitch about, then move on to an easier project.

I mean, just ask Kinoko...

[Vel]

Oh come on, that sounds ridiculous, after the amazing trailer.

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

It's pretty easy to make a trailer out of nothing.  Right now, I bet I could make you a trailer for a new game using nothing but some concept art, some 3d models, and a basic terrain I have on my computer... doesn't mean it's anything coherent.

I'm not agreeing or anything, just pointing something out...

[MrColossal]

Either way, it doesn't matter.

There's no need to bring things like this up since it would just create bad feelings, I know if I read that my hard work was put into question I would be a little more than offended.

There were tons of screenshots of the game in action, I'm sure that's proof enough.

[Potch]

I actually worked as a writer on this game for a short time, back in the early days of production, and yes, they DID contact Roberta Williams, and got permission from her to do it.  I believe at the time that Sierra was still around, and I think they contacted Sierra about the project as well, and they really didn't care.  They never said yes or no, they just didn't care.   I could be wrong about that, as it was a few years ago and my memory is a bit foggy.  But I believe that they did try to cover their asses on it. 

Anyway, it is a shame, as I know how the story was going to pan out, and it would have been an incredible addition to the KQ history.  They really were doing some great work.   

[big brother]

For the record, a copyright can last up to 95 years (thank you, Mickey Mouse) as long as it's work held by a corporate authorship. Before the Copyright Extension Act of 1998, a copyright only existed 50 years after the death of its author. This act tacked on an extra 20 years (45 to some corporations). In addition, this act retroactively increased the protection of works created prior to 1/1/78.

This act almost seemed tailored specifically for Disney's Mickey Mouse. Even though Walt stole the idea from Kinoko, anyways.

As for KQ9, I don't think they need to scrap the project, just tweak some things and add some biting jokes against Vivendi. After all, they don't hold the rights to popular kid's stories. But even the idea of unifying lots of fairy tales in one bigger story is far from new -- children's books have been doing that long before Roberta Williams was old enough to use a typewriter without soiling her diaper.

I think the KQIX team could have chosen a better idea for a game.

I'm surprised Vivendi hasn't approached AGDI yet, especially considering the publicity they got for the KQ remakes. Maybe they're next on the hit list.

[GarageGothic]

I'm surprised Vivendi hasn't approached AGDI yet, especially considering the publicity they got for the KQ remakes. Maybe they're next on the hit list.

Perhaps if you read the legal statement on AGDI's website:
"King's Quest, Quest for Glory and all related material are copyrighted by Sierra Entertainment, Inc. and are used with permission."

[Vel]

Which is why they should release QfG2 VGA ASAP. Once released, it will be impossible to ban.

[TheCheese33]

Universal was being a bitch. The whole reason that they did this was because they lost rights to HL2 publishing, because they were stealing profits from Valve. I say let the game continue, just don't call it King's Quest. Then, those fancy suits back at Universal won't be able to do a damn thing about it.

[fovmester]

This is the reason why the adventure game genre is still dead! Why kill an innocent (and very promising) fan game, when you haven't released a single KQ-game in years, and probably never will?

Had KQIX been successful the attention it would give the genre might have sparked new commercial value into the old adventuregame-trademarks. Which Vivendi would gain a lot from! Conclusion: They kill themselves!

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

I looked up vivendi universal on wikipedia.  List of their assets:

    * Canal+ Group includes: multiThématiques
    * CinéCinéma,
    * Planète
    * Jimmy and Seasons
    * Sport+
    * CanalSatellite
    * Ma Planète
    * Extreme Sports Channel
    * NBA+
    * Pilotime
    * StudioCanal

[edit]

Music

    Universal Music Group labels include:

    * MP3.com

    * A&M Records
    * Barclay Records
    * Decca Records
    * Deutsche Grammophon
    * Dreamworks Records
    * Geffen Records
    * Hollywood Records in the US and Canada only
    * Interscope Records
    * Island Def Jam Records
          o Island Records
          o Def Jam
    * Jazzland Records
    * Lost Highway Records
    * MCA Nashville Records
    * Mercury Nashville Records
    * Mercury Records
    * Motor Music Records
    * Polydor
    * Philips Records
    * Stockholm Records
    * Universal Classics Group
    * Universal Motown Records Group
    * Universal Music Group Nashville
          o Universal Records
          o Universal South Records
          o Blackground Records
          o Motown Records
          o Republic Records
          o Cash Money Records
          o Bad Boy Records
          o Casablanca Records
          o Street Records Corporation
    * Urban Records
    * Verve Records
Universal Music Group also owns local "Universal" labels in Australia, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Hong Kong, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Russia, Spain, Switzerland and Turkey.
Video Games
    Vivendi Universal Games labels include:
    * Blizzard Entertainment
    * Coktel
    * Fox Interactive
    * Knowledge Adventure
    * Massive Entertainment
    * Radical Entertainment
    * Sierra Entertainment
(Partial) List of Video Games published by Vivendi Universal Games and Universal Games
   * Crash Bandicoot (1996)
   * Crash Bandicoot 2: Cortex Strikes Back (1997)
   * Crash Bandicoot: Warped (1998)
   * Crash Team Racing (CTR) (1999)
   * Crash Bash (2000)
   * Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex (2001)
   * Crash Bandicoot: The Huge Adventure (2002)
   * Crash Bandicoot: N-Tranced (2003)
   * Crash Nitro Kart (2003)
   * Crash Bandicoot Purple: Ripto's Rampage (2004)
   * Crash Twinsanity (2004)
   * Crash Tag Team Racing (2005)
   * Spyro the Dragon (1998)
   * Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage (1999)
   * Spyro: Year of the Dragon (2000)
   * Spyro: Season of Ice (2001)
   * Spyro: Season of Flame (2002)
   * Spyro: Attack of the Rhynocs (2003)
   * Spyro Orange: The Cortex Conspiracy (2004)
   * Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly (2002)
   * Spyro: Hero's Tail (2004)
   * HULK (2003)
   * Incredible Hulk: Ultimate Destruction (2005)
   * Half-Life 2 (2004)
Telecommunications
    * SFR Cegetel Group
    * Maroc Telecom

Strait from Wiki.  They're richer than god.  They don't need to worry about a fangame of an ancient video game taking away their sales when they got all that shit that is currently selling.

[Nikolas]

Nipper I think you're right, but do keep in mind, that KQIX could start a thing that nobody could even stop. You see the thing with copyright is so stupid the way it is and I believe that we should **** Vivendi and everyone like them.

BTW did you know that "happy birthday to you" song is copyrighted? You have to pay fees to have it in your movie! For f*** shake this is shit! And even worst it's not the creator who has the copyrights, it's the publishing comopany and now Vivendi.

How beautiful, you spent your life, eating from others people work!

SHIT!

[TheCheese33]

Reminds me of that Simpsons joke; they go caroling, when that lawyer happens to be in one of the houses, and says that all of those songs are copyrighted! So true!

[Scummbuddy]

Seems that LucasFan has gotten a nice letter in the email today...
http://www.lucasfangames.de/


It seems really early for all these april fools jokes.

[MrColossal]

Urgh! I love when people rant on about things they have no knowledge of. Someone email Vivendi and ask instead of pretending that because they have a lot of money they don't need to care about their copyrights.

scumm: Or they're making the games and not advertising them

[edmundito]

Make your own damn IP.

There's like millions of game developer professionals out there bitching how the gaming industry has boiled down to making crappy games based on other properties like comic books and whatnot. So, why do non-profit groups go out and attempt to make a game based on a game IP? Shouldn't they rebel against the norm and do something completely cool and different that hasn't been done before? All that effort wasted on imitating...

This shuting down has been going on for years and years... lucasarts did it first back in 1999, and apparently they're getting back to it. No one should pretend it's a shocking truth.

Basically, if you're playing with big fires and you know it, then you know you're going to get burned one of these days... badly.

m0ds, be careful with your Indy stuff. ¬¬

[Squinky]

Either way, it doesn't matter.

There's no need to bring things like this up since it would just create bad feelings, I know if I read that my hard work was put into question I would be a little more than offended.

There were tons of screenshots of the game in action, I'm sure that's proof enough.

Yeah, Your right. I didn't mean to offend anyone, but when you put it that way, I could see how it could.  Sorry bout that...

I too have never understood the lure of the fan game, I've always wanted to make my own game, crappy as they are. I can understand remaking games to actaully run on new systems, but all the big productions are making a huge gamble I wouldn't want to take.

[Kweepa]

The lure of the fan game is obvious...
- you don't have to make your own ip, which is difficult to do successfully
- you enjoyed the original games and want to continue the stories
- a well done fan game will get ten times the attention of a well done original game
- you might get your fizzog on the gogglebox!

I too apologise to anyone that worked on the game. I was half joking that it didn't exist. As for rebranding, perhaps they are doing that but changing website, company name etc. Perhaps Vivendi will pay less attention to a product if they don't know it was once a fan game.

[Pumaman]

I'm surprised Vivendi hasn't approached AGDI yet, especially considering the publicity they got for the KQ remakes. Maybe they're next on the hit list.

As GarageGothic says, AGDI have permission to create remakes of Sierra games. But that is all. If I remember correctly, their agreement allows them to remake existing games, but NOT to create sequels or spinoffs.

The difference between AGDI and KQ9 is that, should Vivendi decide to make a KQ9 one day, then the fact that there was already a pre-existing fan project of that name would confuse the public and cause them problems with their marketing.

On the other hand, remaking an existing game does not cause Vivendi these sorts of issues so it's safe for them to allow it.

[InCreator]

Ar. Just remove that (IMO, quite uninspiring) "King's Quest IX" part from game name. Give charaters unique names (if not already) and voila! Story could be simply rearranged a bit to make it a different land and characters (remove ties to original KQ names and places).

[jetxl]

The creators of that dragon ball z mod for quake/unreal(?) got a letter from bandai(?) that they should stop working on it (the mod got alot of publicity too). The makers organized a contest where people could send them models of non exsisting dbz-like characters and released their mod using those.

In the fifa games, the dutch players never had the right names, because they had to ask every single player for permission. But there are free patches that  fix it in the correct names.

Phoenix could do the same things and keep working on the game.


Why is lucasfangames.de closed? What recent events?

[Alarcon]

I really don't see why people got so excited over KQ IX.  Yes, the art was better than the crap that most indie adventure games feature.  But it wasn't that great and it was clear that they weren't very good at animating or compositing (check out how Valanice's head doesn't rest on the pillow properly).  The art quality is really quite low for commercial adventure games and lacks the character that almost every commercial adventure game has had.

Setting aside the art, what did it have going for it?  We heard one so-so voice actor and a so-so ho-hum piece of music.

Now what was it lacking?  Well, first off, it's pretty clear that they totally missed the spirit of the KQ series.  I confess, I've not played every KQ game through [complete: KQ1,2,5,6; mostly complete: 3,7; didn't play: 4,8], but the sense I had of the series -- which I think is right -- is that it didn't take itself so seriously.  KQ6 (and to some extent 3) may be an exception to this rule, but most of the games were smaller stories with plenty of humor.  They were fairy tales and fables, NOT fantasy epics.  But KQIX was clearly inspired largely by anime and by fantasy epics.  The preposterous melodrama of the scenes, the embarassing voice over, and the even worse taglines ("some secrets . . . should never be told!") make clear that they missed the spirit of KQ.

Moreover, they missed the trend of the adventure genre, which has really been about humor (Lucas Arts, QFG, LSL, SQ, Willy Beamish) or more "real world" story lines (PQ, Broken Sword, Syberia, Longest Journey).  Fantasy epics are pretty rare, and the reason is that they don't work very well as adventure games.  I'm not even sure there would be much of a market for such a game even within the adventure game crowd these days.  The only such games I remember from growing up are Dragonsphere, Beneath a Steel Sky (not fantasy, but very melodramatic all the same), maybe Rise of the Dragon (again, not fantasy).

If you read the forums, it's clear there was a coup in KQIX's development where the original writer was ousted.  I assume he had wanted to tell a more humble fairy tale, not a lame fantasy melodrama.  It's a shame he didn't manage to keep his hand in this.

People make a big fuss of wondering why they don't just change art assets and whatnot to make it a different game.  But we have no reason to think that they had a functional engine or that they had art assets they weren't showing.  What they did show was all taken from VU/Sierra IP.  If you took out the KQ name and assets, you'd be left with some lame fantasy epic with no engine and decent graphics.  Do you really think that would enjoy a tenth the popularity?

[TheCheese33]

I saw the list you got from wiki. Just more undeniable proof that Universal was being a bitch.
One thing, though. I think they decided to order a cease and detist, because next month they lose Half-Life 2. Valve is changing to EA Games, a better choice in my opinion. It's too bad that this fan project had to feel the anger of a publishing company.

Speaking of Valve, have you seen that new Ragdoll Kung-Fu game on Steam? Looks awesome!

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Interesting post, Alarcon, but I feel I have to disagree on some points - speaking for myself, naturally ("who else could you speak for?").

Also, I tend to repeat myself a lot. Sorry 'bout that.

it didn't take itself so seriously. (...) most of the games were smaller stories with plenty of humor.

You're talking about the "sense" you had of the series. That's subjective, and so's my soon-to-be-revealed argument, so we'd make a pretty poor debate if we actually wanted to arrive to any conclusion. But I digress, as I so often do.

Smaller stories with lots of humour? Ayuh, I suppose so, but I'm not sure it didn't take itself seriously. In fact, I'm not sure what you mean by that - is it because they used "fairy tales and fables" galore instead of a coherent whole? Because if so, then I have to point out that the series grew more and more coherent as they wore on, and in it's old days it was pretty much the height of sophistication - we have to view by the light of the time it was made, in that regard.

The series grew. KQ6 was certainly a grand attempt at something MORE, KQ7 was a much lighter (might be related to the art-style they used) but still more coherent adventure - no longer just the melting pot of fairy tales (which is not to say they didn't take a lot of stories and such and put it there - they did. But no longer in such a haphazard way). And KQ8 certainly attempts to become an epic.

What I mean to say with all this is, the spirit of the series is not necessarily of "not-taking-itself-seriously". On the contrary, it takes itself quite seriously but allows itself light undertones which befit the themes it chose - often fairy-tales. That doesn't necessarily exclude epics. I reccomend KQ2VGA - that wonderful remake is amazingly true to the spirit of the series, and it is certainly not what I'd describe as "not-taking-itself-seriously". I see no reason why a KQ shouldn't try and become rather epic.

Moreover, they missed the trend of the adventure genre, which has really been about humor (Lucas Arts, QFG, LSL, SQ, Willy Beamish) or more "real world" story lines (PQ, Broken Sword, Syberia, Longest Journey).  Fantasy epics are pretty rare, and the reason is that they don't work very well as adventure games.  I'm not even sure there would be much of a market for such a game even within the adventure game crowd these days.

What an odd paragraph. Surely, "trends" have nothing to do with it. Quality is more important and revealing. I'd welcome a fantasy epic. In fact, I welcomed KQ2VGA, which was pretty close to a fantasy epic.

Ask me: Would you rather play a humour fantasy game, a real life gritty game, a mixture of both, or what? I'd answer: How good are they?

In fact, maybe the fantasy genre should make a comeback. It's got so much to give.

As for the rest, I'd like to comment, I sure would, but I know precious little about the KQ9 project, so I'm in to position to discuss it.

[Mr. Mozzarella]

this is so sad ... these people have put so much work into the project and now they have to give it up - shortly before the release of part one

But I remember reading somewhere on the page that in the case they are told to stop, they might continue it with different names for persons&places ... I hope they will

jsut my 2 cents

[Alarcon]

Rui,

A few thoughts.

Obviously I'm speaking subjectively.  I'm sorry if I suggested otherwise.  Nevertheless, some subjective opinions are better formed or more persuasive than others, so I don't think we can't debate the point.

When I say the series didn't take itself too seriously, I didn't mean that it wasn't put together carefully and coherently.  I meant that it wasn't so melodramatic.  Roberta Williams was aware that the adventure game genre is absurd and that (particularly post-Victorian times) fairytales are light-hearted and faintly ridiculous.  When I say "absurd" and "ridiculous" I don't mean bad.  Just that adventure fairytales don't carry heavy-handed melodrama very well.

KQ was seldom melodramatic.  It presented serious situations (Graham losing his family), but usually without suggesting it was an doom-and-gloom state of affairs or that the world was imperilled.  Hence, Cedric could still crack jokes, Graham could still sidetrack himself with feeding honey to bears, and so forth.  That sort of environment and atmosphere is consistent with silly puzzles in a way that a more serious environment isn't.  That's one of the reason The Longest Journey sometimes rang hollow for me (the rubber ducky puzzle particularly).

When I say this is a "trend" in adventure games, I don't mean that one must be trendy, but that it makes sense to look at what has worked well and learn from it.  Lucas Arts perfected the dramatic comedy, where stories had villains, obstacles, love and betrayal and the like, but the player didn't feel like he was reading a middle schooler's favorite fantasy novels.  There was always a wink and a chuckle or a pratfall to break the melodrama.  (Loom, which I adore, is something of an exception here, but even there Bobbin was always quick with a witty aside and the environment screamed "epic" from the getgo, easing things along.)

You're right that KG2VGA moved in the epic fantasy direction too.  That is, I think, one of the reasons I was underwhelmed by it.  An extraordinarily uninteractive, melodramatic Dracula vs. wolfman plot screams lameness to me (see, e.g., Underworld, van Helsing, The Real Ghostbusters episode in Lupusville, etc.).  The only way you can carry that kind of stupid cliche is with a chuckle.  Which KQ2VGA lacked.

[jetxl]

kq could never be taken serious because they pumped the game full of fairytail references. Like a slapstick movie. Whenever there are serious dialogs, there is something random in the background.

Alarcon, there are serious medival adventure games, like Lure of the Temptress. Most of the serious adventure games are detective games wich happen in modern times. Also, medival is most of the time the realm of RPG's. Just think of the small amount of shooter that are in medival times (I can only think of Hexen and Herectic wich are both from last century).

You (always) have to calculate the demise of adventure games. Other genres have become bigger and better, adventure games have not. Adventures now-a-days are just "b-movie horror" bad. (the underdog factor is why I love adventures so much in the first place)

[Pet Terry]

The art quality is really quite low for commercial adventure games and lacks the character that almost every commercial adventure game has had.

The game was going to be freeware.

[fovmester]

.../but the sense I had of the series -- which I think is right -- is that it didn't take itself so seriously.  KQ6 (and to some extent 3) may be an exception to this rule, but most of the games were smaller stories with plenty of humor.  They were fairy tales and fables, NOT fantasy epics....

Well as far as I can remember Mask of Eternity ( nbr 8 ) was the most melodramatic game of the whole series. I don't think there's much of a joke in the entire game. Maybe the KQIX-group wanted to follow in the footsteps of that? (Dunno why they would want that though, since MoE was crap!)

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

According to Alarcon I guess anyone making a serious adventure game should just stop (since it's not a knee-slapper and therefore can't be good).  :

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Fov - Heh, KQ8 is not really a good example of the series. Beats me why they changed it so much - I saw in the "Making Of" that the swamp witch was supposed to be able to transform into a beautiful woman who'd lure you in, and so on.

This feels much more like KQ, doesn't it? But in the FINISHED version, the witch is just another enemy you have to kill.

Somewhere along the line KQ8 got lost. Nice game, poor KQ game - IMHO. I'm not sure we could count it as an example.

[Alarcon]

According to Alarcon I guess anyone making a serious adventure game should just stop (since it's not a knee-slapper and therefore can't be good).Ã,  :

1) Well, any game that purports to be part of a series that was somewhat tongue-in-cheek and didn't take itself seriously shouldn't wind up being lame melodrama.

2) As I said above, games set in the real world seem to be amenable to serious stories, but one has to be careful with puzzle design in such cases.

3) In theory you could have a serious fantasy game, but it would require very, very good puzzle design and solid writing to avoid feeling ridiculous.  (I happened to be very fond, for example, of Dragonsphere, which didn't have great puzzle design but at least designed its puzzles not to seem ridiculous.)

4) No one should ever make a melodramatic game.  Such games are invariably lame and always wind up being extremely uninteractive.

[jetxl]

...
4) No one should ever make a melodramatic game. Such games are invariably lame and always wind up being extremely uninteractive.

* jet  agrees with Alarcon.

Eighter make is funny as hell or serious as cancer. Sure, there are times to joke around, but don't change the atmoshere of the moment.


Alarcon, you did know that kq9 was independent, right?

[Alarcon]

Jet,

Yes, obviously.  The reason I mentioned commercial games in my first post is that it seems to me all KQIX had going for it was all right graphics.  The production values were very high for an indie (better said, amateur; there are "indie" games with big budgets) adventure game, sure.  But most everyone here I'm sure gets all huffy and says things like, "It's not the graphics, it's the game!" when discussing commercial products.  I'm somewhat baffled as to why, when the game is indie, people drop all gameplay standards if the graphics are pretty. 

In this case, I thought the graphics were decent -- although, as I believe I noted above, there were serious compositing issues and the animation was rather stiff -- but they weren't mindblowing.  And from everything we could see, the game looked embarassingly melodramatic.  The fact that they never showed anything that looked like gameplay in their stills or animation suggests to me that gameplay wasn't being considered at all.  My sense is that they viewed adventure games primarily as story-telling games, and, as I've written elsewhere (not under this nom d' clavier), putting story before gameplay in any genre is putting the cart before the horse.

My sense is that the game was being done by a crowd weaned on anime (some of the character designs definitely show anime influences), Japanese RPGs, and David Eddings quality fantasy novels.  They had a fondness for KQ, sure, but they were warped by those influencs to the point that was most important was telling an epic, melodramatic fantasy story, where the hero goes around declaiming and there are long, elaborate, uninteractive dialogue sequences.

So I look at this game, which shows us nothing but pretty graphics and jaw-droppingly lame writing, and I wonder to myself why everyone is so excited.  Then VU pulls the plug and everyone talks about the game like it was the Second Coming.  All I'm saying is that it looked decidedly mediocre to me.  If we take the same standards we use for appraising commercial games and then use those standards to compare KQIX to the other solid amateur adventure games, I think KQIX comes up short.  So when people treat it like it's way better than those games, it offends me and I feel obliged to point out its failings.

Generally, the same crowd who says that the reason indie games are better than commercial games is that they aren't obsessed with eyecandy wind up touting the most eye-candy oriented indie games as the best. 

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Speaking for myself, I didn't know much about the project. I don't know about "Second Coming", but I always find it sad when this sort of thing happens. It reminds me of Kairus' "Garfield" episode.

[MrColossal]

"My sense is that the game was being done by a crowd weaned on anime (some of the character designs definitely show anime influences), Japanese RPGs, and David Eddings quality fantasy novels.  They had a fondness for KQ, sure, but they were warped by those influencs to the point that was most important was telling an epic, melodramatic fantasy story, where the hero goes around declaiming and there are long, elaborate, uninteractive dialogue sequences."

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I don't see anywhere on the website where there is art that is anime inspired.

I don't see anything on the website that says the game was going to be full of long and boring uninteractive cutscenes...

"If you read the forums, it's clear there was a coup in KQIX's development where the original writer was ousted.  I assume he had wanted to tell a more humble fairy tale, not a lame fantasy melodrama.  It's a shame he didn't manage to keep his hand in this."

Can you back that assumption up with anything or are you just making wild guesses?

Also, what does it matter, when any game gets shut down people cry foul and say release it anyway, even when some project on the AGS forums gets shut down people go a little nuts trying to convince the person to keep it going.

Sure you can criticise something but from what I've read [unless their forums give more story out, which I don't read] you're making a lot of assumptions with little fact.

But please, prove me wrong if I am.

[Alarcon]

The young man in the animation (who I assume is Alexander) looks like a stock "realistic" anime character to me.

Obviously I'm making assumptions -- that's what I mean by, "I assume" -- and you're welcome to try to track down more to the story.  But the ousted writer came up with the title, which is pretty campy, and if you look at older screenshots they look a lot less serious.  It's hard to imagine what the change of direction could have been, if not from a fairy tale to a melodrama.  Do you have a better guess at it?

[big brother]

I'm not sad KQ9 was canceled. It would've sucked anyways*.

*See the Aesop's Fable about the wolf and the grapes.

[TheYak]

I really don't see how that's applicable as I certainly wasn't planning on eating KQIX.  I'll thank you to keep your arbitrary comments to yourself, BB.

[Nikolas]

I'm really bad at spotting fun and sarcasm through the net, but I can't see it here, thus I enter to defend big brother.

I really don't see how that's applicable as I certainly wasn't planning on eating KQIX.Ã,  I'll thank you to keep your arbitrary comments to yourself, BB.

Check at google and see if you can find anything on Aesop (Ancient, Greek author of many fables with educational values).
He does mean quite the opposite.

And if this some kind of fun, please forgive me... (I did say that I'm an amateur when it comes to spotting sarcasm. On the other hand I'm quite professional when it comes to ruining the fun)!

On the topic now:

Fan games are made for a couple of reason, that I can think of.
To pay respect to the original games and to take some of the flame from the original.
I don't think that there is any denayal in the fact they were doing a good job (from what I've seen). It is a bizzare coincident that SQ, KQ, LucasFan were all shut in a period of a month (maybe not for the latter, but the other two?)

The fact remains that Vivendi holds the f***ing copyrights and that gives them the power to do whatever they want. And for some reason, that me for once am not able, or experienced, or in the industry, they decided to shut the project down. It does seem, small minded, stupid, hostile and whatever else, but they must have a reason, other than playing with destroying other peoples' projects.

I sure hope that a game with a simillar name, and simillar characters, will emerge and that Vivendi won't be able to do shit about it!

And for some of you who think that hiding until releasing the game is a good idea, I'm not so sure. As even if there are 1000s of mirrors to your game (which breeches (sp) copyright) it is still illegal and Vivendi (or any other holding the copyrights), could even sue you. I've no idea how this could work in court (maybe a lawyer can help here), but again the law is pretty specific on that. If you "steal", something you're going to have to pay. No matter why you did it, if you get anything out of it, financial that is, or if the damage is allready done!

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

The young man in the animation (who I assume is Alexander) looks like a stock "realistic" anime character to me.

Obviously I'm making assumptions -- that's what I mean by, "I assume" -- and you're welcome to try to track down more to the story.  But the ousted writer came up with the title, which is pretty campy, and if you look at older screenshots they look a lot less serious.  It's hard to imagine what the change of direction could have been, if not from a fairy tale to a melodrama.  Do you have a better guess at it?

He wanted to know if you had any fact behind your assumptions, not weather or not you were making them.  I want to know where on the forums you found any of the plot and deemed it highly influenced by anime & japanese RPGs. 

And some of the most serious scenes can take themselves lightly, and not make it an "epic melodrama" or a "campy humor". 
**trying really, really hard not to quote QFG**

[cesarbittar]

Alarcon,

I normally don't this, but I believe I have to clear out some of the comments I've read in this thread.

1) "games should not be melodramatic" I welcome you to look at the Final Fantasy series. They may be a different genre that you may not like, but there's a reason why the game is followed by millions of people, including many adventure lovers.

2) Roberta Williams gave us her support, and was totally amazed at the screenshots/trailer. So was Ken. Roberta is particulary very proud of us and has thanked us for carrying on her legacy. Ken has publicly said that if he were still at the helm of Sierra, he would sign a project like ours immediately.

3) You obviously don't know even a 1% of the script, as the game is balanced between drama and humor. Yes, I'm a fan of the KQ series and know exactly what they are about. The idea was to take the series to a wider audience that is more used to the epic sagas of today. However, the game follows a lot of fairy-tales and blends them into the story (Cinderella being one of them). No, the plot/art is not *completely* influenced by Japanese anime (the art truly isn't). I won't deny that I am a fan of Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts (latter which happens to be a lot in the vibe of KQ), etc, however, KQIX is more influenced by games like The Longest Journey (A melodrama, and one of the best adventure games out there, btw), sagas like the Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, etc.

Here's a couple of examples of how lighthearted this game can get to be:

LOOK at soup bowls:
GRAHAM:    Hmmm, aren't these…?   
NARRATOR:   "Hear ye, hear ye! Now your inner glutton can be satisfied, and you'll never starve again!Ã,  Daventry's own Refilling Bowls, used and approved of by King Graham himself whilst he sought the crown of Daventry! Warning: The contents of this food product may or may not contain any nutritional value. In fact, the contents of this food product and their origins have not successfully been identified. Do not place in or heat in microwave.”
GRAHAM:    Microwave?
NARRATOR: Sorry, I mistook you for Roger Wilco.
GRAHAM:    Ah, Roger.
NARRATOR:   Graham still remembers the time Roger crashed into his moat after hitting the “Don't Push” button in the original Space Quest I: The Sarien Encounter.
GRAHAM:    Funny guy, a little bit out there. He insisted he came from the future.
NARRATOR: It took the Daventry guards days before they could pull that strange device out of the water.
GRAHAM:    What did he call it? Space horse?
NARRATOR: Ship, Graham, spaceship.
GRAHAM:    He kept saying he wanted to be my first knight. I always thought he was good for cleaning the stables. I wonder where he is now.
NARRATOR: Probably crashed at Schloss Ritter.
GRAHAM:   Where in Daventry is that?
NARRATOR:   You don't play too many adventure games, do you, Graham?
GRAHAM:    Contrary to your beliefs, I do! Over and over again.
NARRATOR:   Luckily for you there is that “save and load” feature.
GRAHAM:    Yes. Especially on those narrow edges in the early days.
NARRATOR: Somebody ought to teach those players how to control those arrows.
GRAHAM:    It hurt! A lot!
PO:   Excuse me, sire, are you talking to yourself?
GRAHAM:   â€¦No.

Hole in the Wall starts jumping and making noises.
GRAHAM:    (he kneels down) Slow down, my fantastic friend--
Hole in the Wall keeps jumping around, getting more excited.
GRAHAM:    What is it that you say? I can't decipher your tongue!
Hole in the wall, points in one direction over the sea.
GRAHAM:    The sea?
Hole in the Wall shook his head and mimics “over it.”
GRAHAM:    Over the sea?
Hole in the wall nods, then looks at his surroundings, scared.
GRAHAM:    I understand. You are lost, and you want to go home.
Hole in the Wall nods, then points at Graham.
GRAHAM:    I'm sorry. I wish I could help you go home, but I'm on a critical mission.
Hole in the Wall stars whimpering.
GRAHAM:    All right, all right, don't cry. You can come along. I'll do my best to bring you home.
Hole in the wall gets all excited.
GRAHAM:    Jump in, my new companion.
Hole in the Wall jumps into Graham's pocket.
(End of Sequence)

USE MAGIC POWDER on pond:
Sequence Trigger:
EXT â€" POND - NIGHT
   Rosella goes to the shore of the pond and sprays it with the powder. The waters start moving violently, up and down.
FAIRIES:    Here she comes! Here she comes!
   Rosella gasps. The waters get even more violent, and they seem they are going to flood the place. The wind is strong. Finally, from the pond, a unicorn no bigger than the size of a hand emerges and lands on Rosella's hand.
ROSELLA:    (disappointed) This?
   The fairies gasps and Unique bites Rosella, Rosella screams and stirs her away.
UNIQUE:    And I am to serve her?
FAIRIES:    Unique!
UNIQUE:    Did you miss me?
FAIRIES:    Rosella, Unique will take you to Astratos!
ROSELLA:    Me? I could carry it!
UNIQUE:    Her.
ROSELLA:    Whatever!
UNIQUE:    Her, I said. And if it wasn't my task, I would not carry you at all. Not even back to the castle, where the guards would take you to the dungeon.
ROSELLA:    (astounded) Well, I, I just…
UNIQUE:    But since it's my task, let's get over with it. What are you waiting for?
ROSELLA:    I don't take any orders from a midget beast!
FAIRIES:    Oohhhhh!
UNIQUE:    I'm about to give up my sacred obligations. Now do what you have to do and I'll do what I have to do, and that'll be that.
FAIRIES:    Rosella, do as she says! She's the only one that can take you to Astratos!
ROSELLA:    Why didn't I get a hippopotamus?
UNIQUE:    Because not even one of those could put up with your weight.
ROSELLA:    And just how are you going to do so? I can barely see you.
UNIQUE:    It's not my fault you are blinder than a Typhlopidae.
ROSELLA:    A what?
UNIQUE:    A blind snake. Hmph! As far as what you need to do, I don't have to tell you everything, do I?
                  (End of sequence)

EXT â€" SHIP - NIGHT
   The ship is riding through the skies, Alexander is on the bow.Ã, 
DVOICES:   (O.S) Yes, Alexander… Yes… Come to us… We are part of you…
VOICE:    (V.O) It may be a hard decision, especially now, when you cannot distinguish what is right and wrong for you. This you must believe, and ponder. In the many years that will come, you may still think on this. But you have no need to ever be afraid, or feel you are strangely different. You are different, but you are not alone in this world.
TIGROAT:    (O.S, in a long scream) Help!
CAPTAIN:    Come back here! You scurrying beast!
   Tigroat runs and hides behind Alexander.
TIGROAT:    Please, mi amigo, you have to help me!
ALEX:    What…?
TIGROAT:    He wants to kick me out the ship! And I need to go home!
CAPTAIN:    There you are! I was very clear no one steps on my ship without an admission letter!
TIGROAT:    But I am a citizen of the Endless Forest!
CAPTAIN:    That is not of my business. No letter, no ride! Now come with me!
   The captain tries to take him, Tigroat hides behind Alexander, and Alexander moves up and down funnily. Finally, the captain takes him and starts carrying Tigroat away.
TIGROAT:    (to Alex) Por favor!
ALEX:    Stop there, captain.
CAPTAIN:    Huh? (he turns around).
ALEX:    He's with me.
CAPTAIN:    Pets are not allowed in the academy.
TIGROAT:    I am n-not a p-pet!
ALEX:    He's… he's right. He's… this is actually top secret information, but I can assure you that if he doesn't make it to the Academy, you are going to be in big trouble.
CAPTAIN:    I didn't receive any notice of this!
TIGROAT:    That's because it's top secret!
ALEX:    He's right.
CAPTAIN:    Arr! Aight! But you better keep an eye on him. I don't want no kitty fur anywhere on my ship!
TIGROAT:    I am a tiger (roars and tries to scratch him), not a kitty!
CAPTAIN:    You look like a damned overgrown kitty to me. Now, you heard me. No fur!
   He drops Tigroat and leaves. Tigroat cleans himself and then walks to Alexander.
TIGROAT:   Gracias. (beat) It means thank you. (Alexander doesn't respond). What are you gonna do in the Academy? Are you a big wizard? You don't look that old, though. I'm Tigroat, that's T-I-G-RRRRRRR-O-A-T. I come from the lands of the Endless Forest.
   Alexander looks down and can't help but smile.
ALEX:    I'm Alexander.
TIGROAT:    I could tell you a lot about the lands you are going to. It's your first time, right? Well, there's this… (voice fades).
   The ship starts pulling towards the horizon.
                        (CUT TO)


4) "Maybe the exception is KQ VI" You are correct. That also happens to be the fan's favorite. We've done a lot of research before making our decisions.

5) The graphics weren't less serious. That's a different land, and you are looking at them from wider shot as opposite to the tighter shots of the game sequences.

6) Luke Jensen left on his own. The game script he wrote was probably 30 pages as opposed to the 1500 pages that it ended up to be. He wasn't part of the team's decisions when the first set of screenshots came out. He wasn't even part of the Art Direction decisions. That has always come down to Rich Flores and Michael Fortunato.

7) Story before gameplay. You have probably never read interviews made to the team, articles written on the game, etc, etc, that could tell you about a couple of features that the game has. I'll just put it this way. The game script was 1500 pages long. The walkthrough was 56 pages long, and it was just a pintpointer of what to do, such as an example:

Getting the Dreamcatcher:

-Talk “Elements for the Dreamcatcher” with Andreios.
-On the stars below, cast Asturach Lon on sign.
-Cast Aperio Pridem on the Unicorn Star.
-Separate Alexander and Rosella. Send Alexander to Outside the Dragon Forest.
-As Rosella, cast Retrogradior on Unicorn's star. Switch to Alexander.
-Cast Yuner Koi on Unicorn.
-As Alex, hand on Unicorn. Get Unicorn's Hair.
-In Cave of the Dragon, grab cobweb.
-In Temple top outside right, Use Cobweb on dragon. They lay the cobweb down.
-As Alex, cast Grerear on cobweb.
-As Rosella, cast Ocius on Cobweb.

8 ) Pretty graphics, one decent voice over and one ho-hum song? Ok... more facts. The first part of the trilogy, SHADOWS, has 110 different locations, 190 characters (which are all modeled and more than half textured), a soundtrack that at the time goes a little over 2 hours of music and would have reached 3 hours (including two full songs), it was based on about 400 pages of the full 1500 pages script. We have a full cast of over 25 actors recorded online (that auditioned and were cast and recorded at New York City), plus the 30 or more actors from the online auditions which have the smaller roles. We completely turned the Torque engine, which was designed for a FPS into an adventure engine. First part has around 25 cutscenes and they had been all storyboarded and turned into an animatic, and some of them were finalized. I can go on and on and on here.... but I also "assume" that you could go around the KQIX site and find all of these facts.

Yes, it was an epic. Yes, it was very story-driven and had a lot of character development. Yes, it had a lot of cutscenes, and was overall very cinematic (which is a question of taste in my opinion), but also had a lot of gameplay and well thought puzzles that would have had anyone playing for days. I'm particulary not a stranger to the adventure genre. I have probably played 80% of all the adventure games out there prior to 2002 (I now pick what adventure games to play because I don't have the time).

And...

Yes, you are making a lot of completely incorrect "assumptions". If you are going to bring down the work of the hundreds of people of my team that have poured their hearts out for four years by working so hard on something they believed in, please, at least show them some respect by doing a better research on the things you say before babling out whatever comes into your mind. Thank you.

César Bittar
Project Director
KQIX Development Team

[Kweepa]

So, what's the next step?
Finish it with slightly changed names?
Or a completely different product with the team and engine?

[Nikolas]

So, what's the next step?
Finish it with slightly changed names?
Or a completely different product with the team and engine?

I would imagine that it would be for the best not to know,at least for now.

I don't know, after all the fuss...

[mcomp72]

Hey everybody,

I wanted to let everyone know that myself and many other King's Quest fans have joined together and started an organization to try to save KQIX.

Our website is:  www.savekqix.org

We feel very strongly that our best chance to save the game is through a letter writing campaign.  If you care about KQIX and want to see it released, I strongly urge you to take 10 minutes and write a letter to Vivendi Universal Games.  Let them know how much you were looking forward to the game.

I know some of you may have already sent an email to Vivendi.  That's great, but we still need you to send a physical letter via the good ol' postal service.  A physical letter will have so much more of an impact than an email.  The emails are probably never seen by anyone except a couple of low level people who's job it is to check those email accounts.  It's easy to dismiss thousands of emails.  But it's hard to ignore thousands of actual letters.  Physical letters will have so much more of a VISUAL IMPACT.  Think of how those Vivendi executives will feel when the see those stack and stacks of letters!

I know some of you may have also signed the petition that has been circulating.  We think the petition is a good idea, but really believe that a personally written letter from each one of you, rather than the same petition, will be EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE.  In fact, the person that created the petition is a major part of our organization.  Oh, and don't worry; if you've already signed the petition, it WILL be sent to Vivendi.  However, we still need you to write a letter!

Visit our webpage for the mailing address to VU Games.  Stop by the forums and say hello.  Let's make it known that there are a lot of adventure game fans out here that want to see the game released.  We need EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU in order to be successful.

Please, take 10 minutes out of your day to write that letter.  It's the best chance we have to save KQIX!

Take care,

Matt

www.savekqix.org


P.S.  Please spread the word!  We need as many King's Quest fans as possible to find out about our "quest" to save KQIX.

[Scummbuddy]

since im sure you other post will be deleted, since we dont allow double posting here, ill write my response here.

Whats wrong with letting them just change the names of the characters and locations, and then release the game that way?

[Alarcon]

I've never felt so vindicated in my life.Ã,  Wow.Ã,  Could you draw that target on your chest a little bigger and brighter?Ã,  LOL

1) Cheap Melodrama.

I write:

My sense is that the game was being done by a crowd weaned on anime (some of the character designs definitely show anime influences), Japanese RPGs, and David Eddings quality fantasy novels.Ã,  They had a fondness for KQ, sure, but they were warped by those influencs to the point that was most important was telling an epic, melodramatic fantasy story, where the hero goes around declaiming and there are long, elaborate, uninteractive dialogue sequences.

He says:

1) "games should not be melodramatic" I welcome you to look at the FINAL FANTASY series. They may be a different genre that you may not like, but there's a reason why the game is followed by millions of people, including many adventure lovers.

The idea was to take the series to a wider audience that is more used to the EPIC SAGAS of today. However, the game follows a lot of fairy-tales and blends them into the story (Cinderella being one of them). No, THE PLOT/ART IS NOT *COMPLETELY* INFLUENCED BY JAPANESE ANIME [ed: is there any other kind?] (the art truly isn't). I won't deny that I am a fan of FINAL FANTASY / kingdom hearts . . .  KQIX is more influenced by games like The Longest Journey (A MELODRAMA, and one of the best adventure games out there, btw), SAGAS LIKE LORD OF THE RINGS, CHRONICLES OF NARNIA, ETC.

2) No gameplay.

I write:

the hero goes around declaiming and there are long, elaborate, uninteractive dialogue sequences . . .
gameplay wasn't being considered at all.Ã,  My sense is that they viewed adventure games primarily as story-telling games . . . .

He says:

The game script was 1500 pages long. The walkthrough was 56 pages long . . . it had a lot of cutscenes, and was overall very cinematic

3) Just graphics.

I write:

I look at this game [and it] shows us nothing but pretty graphics . . . .Ã,  [T]he same crowd who says that the reason indie games are better than commercial games is that they aren't obsessed with eyecandy wind up touting the most eye-candy oriented indie games as the best.

He says:

Roberta Williams . . . was totally amazed at the screenshots/trailer. So was Ken.

4) Not funny, bad writing.

I write:

So I look at this game [and see] jaw-droppingly lame writing . . . . The only way you can carry that kind of stupid cliche is with a chuckle.

He says:

GRAHAM:    Microwave?
NARRATOR: Sorry, I mistook you for Roger Wilco.
GRAHAM:    Ah, Roger.
NARRATOR:   Graham still remembers the time Roger crashed into his moat after hitting the “Don't Push” button in the original Space Quest I: The Sarien Encounter.
GRAHAM:    Funny guy, a little bit out there. He insisted he came from the future.
NARRATOR: It took the Daventry guards days before they could pull that strange device out of the water.
GRAHAM:    What did he call it? Space horse?
NARRATOR: Ship, Graham, spaceship.
GRAHAM:    He kept saying he wanted to be my first knight. I always thought he was good for cleaning the stables. I wonder where he is now.
NARRATOR: Probably crashed at Schloss Ritter.
GRAHAM:   Where in Daventry is that?
NARRATOR:   You don't play too many adventure games, do you, Graham?

5) Totally uninteractive.

I write:

No one should ever make a melodramatic game.Ã,  Such games are invariably lame and always wind up being extremely uninteractive

He says:

DVOICES:Ã,  Ã, (O.S) Yes, Alexander… Yes… Come to us… We are part of you…
VOICE:Ã,  Ã,  (V.O) It may be a hard decision, especially now, when you cannot distinguish what is right and wrong for you. This you must believe, and ponder. In the many years that will come, you may still think on this. But you have no need to ever be afraid, or feel you are strangely different. You are different, but you are not alone in this world.
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  (O.S, in a long scream) Help!
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  Come back here! You scurrying beast!
Ã,  Ã, Tigroat runs and hides behind Alexander.
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  Please, mi amigo, you have to help me!
ALEX:Ã,  Ã,  What…?
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  He wants to kick me out the ship! And I need to go home!
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  There you are! I was very clear no one steps on my ship without an admission letter!
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  But I am a citizen of the Endless Forest!
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  That is not of my business. No letter, no ride! Now come with me!
Ã,  Ã, The captain tries to take him, Tigroat hides behind Alexander, and Alexander moves up and down funnily. Finally, the captain takes him and starts carrying Tigroat away.
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  (to Alex) Por favor!
ALEX:Ã,  Ã,  Stop there, captain.
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  Huh? (he turns around).
ALEX:Ã,  Ã,  He's with me.
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  Pets are not allowed in the academy.
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  I am n-not a p-pet!
ALEX:Ã,  Ã,  He's… he's right. He's… this is actually top secret information, but I can assure you that if he doesn't make it to the Academy, you are going to be in big trouble.
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  I didn't receive any notice of this!
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  That's because it's top secret!
ALEX:Ã,  Ã,  He's right.
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  Arr! Aight! But you better keep an eye on him. I don't want no kitty fur anywhere on my ship!
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  I am a tiger (roars and tries to scratch him), not a kitty!
CAPTAIN:Ã,  Ã,  You look like a damned overgrown kitty to me. Now, you heard me. No fur!
Ã,  Ã, He drops Tigroat and leaves. Tigroat cleans himself and then walks to Alexander.
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã, Gracias. (beat) It means thank you. (Alexander doesn't respond). What are you gonna do in the Academy? Are you a big wizard? You don't look that old, though. I'm Tigroat, that's T-I-G-RRRRRRR-O-A-T. I come from the lands of the Endless Forest.
Ã,  Ã, Alexander looks down and can't help but smile.
ALEX:Ã,  Ã,  I'm Alexander.
TIGROAT:Ã,  Ã,  I could tell you a lot about the lands you are going to. It's your first time, right? Well, there's this… (voice fades).
Ã,  Ã, The ship starts pulling towards the horizon.
Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  Ã,  (CUT TO)

Note the ominous "cut to," which means that even more bad writing awaits with a new mediocre rendering!Ã,  Hooray!

------

Let me tell you what your "game" would have been: a lame and tedious 3D cartoon, eighty percent stupid melodrama and twenty percent stupid jokes.Ã,  Sure, I'm not surprised that Roberta Williams is flattered that so much time and effort was being used to resuscitate a series of hers that has long since died.Ã,  If someone put that much work into turning one of the awful stories I wrote in middle school into a three act play, I'd be flattered (if amused) and I'd throw cheap compliments their way.Ã,  Of course, if I'd sold the rights to that story to a company, I might also drop them a line to know that thieves were stealing their intellectual property, which, perhaps, is that the Williamses did.Ã,  I hope not, but who knows?

Let me help put into perspective just how tediously uninteractive this game was going to be.Ã,  Final Fantasy Tactics has a script that is 200 pages long.Ã,  Xenogears, the only more obnoxiously melodramatic and uninteractive jRPG to my knowledge, has a script that is 1300 pages long.Ã,  (Of course, page counts are for idiots; word counts translate much better.)Ã,  That makes KQIX's script as long as Final Fantasy Tactics's and Xenogears's combined.Ã,  All that in a game that offers a few days worth of puzzles.

Can you imagine anything more boring than all the length of those two bloated embarrassments, written even more poorly, even more self-indulgently, and accompanied by some amateur voice overs?Ã,  God . . . .Ã,  That's not the stuff of dreams.Ã,  It's the stuff of nightmares.

"Bittar" fruits indeed.

[Gilbert]

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

With a shamelessly depricating attitude like yours Alarcon, don't be terribly surprised if your stay here is short lived and your departure welcomed; it's one thing to have a negative opinion (however well informed) about something, but it is an altogether different matter when all you're doing is slamming a project and spouting vitriol.  Your previous post comes off with such unbridled arrogance and smarm that I find myself despising you already.  Was that the reaction you were after?  Congratulations!

[modgeulator]

There's just something about seeing someone rip to shreds the well-intentioned hard work of amateurs that makes me feel a bit queasy.
It's strange that Alacron seems to have only registered in order to come and dump all over the KQIX project. Does he have some sort of grudge?

[Kinoko]

Man, that rocks Gil! I was falling asleep at my desk and you gave me a much needed laugh.

My own 2 cents: I read cesarbittar's reply and I was like, `Wow, that's pretty impressive!`. Then I read alucard's reply and was like, `Hmm, he makes a damn good point`.

I never even knew about this game before it was cancelled, let alone followed it so I never saw any of it for myself. Okay, Al is being harsh but at the same time, he's entitled to an opinion. You guys don't have to get so worked up about it.

To be honest, if someone was doing a remake of a game I held true to my heart and putting a HUGE amount of effort, and yet was taking it in a direction I didn't like, I'd be pretty annoyed.

An amateur game author has every right to do whatever the heck he likes with his own game, but respect that other people have every right to an opinion. Just because it isn't soft like, `Oh, it's pretty good! but... `, that doesn't make him a bastard. He has an opnion, you can disagree with it but you don't have to hate him for it.

Of course, it's your right to hate him...

Still, guys, we're talking about a game here. Remakes always stir up controversy and differing opinions. To be honest, I read that dialogue and thought, `Bleagh!`. To me, that doesn't fit in with a KQ game at all. My opinion, and I mean no disrespect to the game author, it was my natural reaction. I may well have enjoyed (/enjoy) the game if it came out (if it comes out).

[Alarcon]

don't be terribly surprised if your stay here is short lived and your departure welcomed

Well, as modgeulator noted, I'm just here to slam KQIX and leave.

Does he have some sort of grudge?

Yup. Ã, But it's not personal to Cesar Bittar or particular to KQIX, which I hadn't even heard of until it croaked. Ã, My grudge is with the trend to lionize eye-junkfood of the sort peddled by Phoenix Online Studios. Ã, It bothers me that well-written, well-designed games that don't have sexy graphics and don't bootstrap themselves to famous IP get entirely overlooked, or at least relatively ignored, while games like KQIX suck up tons of resources. Ã, What resources? Ã, Well, they drag in a huge percentage of willing artists, composers, and the like. Ã, They erode the potential fanbase of other projects. Ã, And they, accordingly, crush the spirits of people who are trying to be creative.

Honestly, I don't have a dog in the fight, since I don't make games, no longer have an interest in doing so, and tend to play commercial games almost exclusively. Ã, But the hypocrisy I noted earlier, of indie gamers bitching about how all game publishers care about is glitz and then turning around and slobbering over games like this, gets me agitated. Ã, KQIX's forums have roughly 150,000 posts. Ã, Can you imagine the energy that kind of fanbase would give to developers making interesting, fun games, rather than meldromatic wanna-be anime cutscene fests?

As a last note, it vaguely upset me seeing KQ, a series I was quite fond of as a kid, reduced to the point where this kind of crappy sequel is lauded as a great comeback. Ã, It's little better than FO:BoS.

---EDIT---

Thanks, Kinoko.  You can find pics and animation here: http://www.adventure-eu.com/index.php?option=com_repository&cat_id=3&game_id=42&file_id=31  The only character who really looks anime-ish is Alexander.

A last quick comment -- I was also more than slightly horrified to hear about how the cofounder and original writer was put out to pasture.Ã,  And that horror was magnified when I saw the way he was treated on the KQIX forum.Ã,  (I can't find the post now, it's in the shut down thread.Ã,  He's insulted and yelled at and mocked by the forum attack dogs.)Ã,  My sense is that he was ousted because his vision was of a play-driven game truer to the series's roots.Ã,  Who knows, though?Ã,  Maybe I'm projecting there.

One more thought is that the kind of blind obsession fan projects like this generate offends the rationalist in me.

[Kinoko]

Can someone post some screenshots or something (seriously, you won't get sued for that. A couple of pictures - call it `satire` and everyone's happy). I'm really interested to see what the characters look like since some people say they're anime inspired and some don't.

I'm an expert so I'll settle the debate ^_-

[Alarcon]

Just to throw in one more factoid -- I realize that if this game uses branching dialogue (there's no sign that it does, but I'd hope the designers weren't that devoid of good sense), a comparison to Xenogears is somewhat unfair, since you might not see all the dialogue in the game.  So I checked out the story to Planescape: Torment, which has branching dialogue and has generally been maligned as too text-heavy (it happens to be my favorite RPG).  PS:T has a script that's about 470 pages.  It's 170k words.  Conventionally, a page will have somewhere between 200 and 500 words on it, depending on formatting (300 is sort of the standard for fiction manuscripts; 500 for Word default settings, 200 for a more screenplay format).

Even at the extreme low-end (200 words per page), Cesar is claiming his script would be 300,000 words.  That is almost twice as much text as PS:T.  It should be pointed out that in PS:T, much of the text isn't voiced, which means that you can read it at your own pace, which is invariably significantly faster than listening.  PS:T also let you interact after every small text box by choosing where to lead the dialogue.  There were very, very few times when you watched dialogue without interacting.  Nevertheless, the game was attacked for being too plot heavy.  PS:T was also supposed to take 50 hours or so (in practice it often took much less, of course).

I mention these figures only because most game designers I've worked with view text-heaviness as the first sign of someone who doesn't understand game writing.  Either Cesar is lying about the length of his script, or he fundamentally misunderstand how games, particularly adventure games, should work.

All of the text, miscellaneous text included, in Monkey Island 2 comes to 35,00 words.   The dialogue in EMI is 41,000 words long.   (see http://lucasfic.mixnmojo.com/misc/textdump.htm)  Grim Fandango is 15,000 words for all text.  (http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/grim_fandango_text.txt)   I can't find any comparable figures for Sierra games.  But I hope the point is made all the same?

[Vince Twelve]

You're doing research now?  Just to insult this guy?  Dude, why expend so much energy hating on one particular game?  Especially one that you have never, and will never, play because it will never be released?  Unless cesarbittar slept with your girlfriend or something, you need to chill out.

Don't be so insulted just because you're not in that small fraction of the gaming community targeted by this game.  There's absolutely no reason to launch a personal vendetta against this game.  The games that you enjoy aren't the only games that have merit.  The only thing that your arguments are proving is that you're a bit of a jerk.

[Nikolas]

Alarcon: It is really great having all thr grudges turn towards you instead of Vivendi. But read on, really I don't.

I can see your points and as Kinoko said you have a right to do so. It does seem that all your post are in this thread and nowhere else (except one post made about shareware...). Well this strikes as kinda weird to people (not myself), who have been here for 2+ years and love this community. I will have to quote Vince here, from something he taold me a couple of months ago and saved me :"We're all friends here, chill out."

Well you're not doing that! But I understand why you can be so upset! It feels that you just made your point clear and everyone is attacking you.

Still about KQIX: It is still and indie game. I would love to have been able to work with these guys (except I don't do Fan games...). There's nothing wrong with doing a quality indie game, why the hate really? As I think about it a always played games for a bunch of reasons. For the story, the gameplay, the music, the graphics. All these reasons, if one was not good it would turn me away from any game. But on the other hand I still play Tetris (no graphics-no music, but the gameplay, god the gameplay).

Your criticism of KQIX is rather right, from what I've seen but don't act like a jerk, don't overdo it. I also know that you don't need me to tell you what to do, but let it go... I think that we have enough evidence from you and from Ceasar to make our own judgements.

Everyone: I feel that we're caught up on a fight, ending nowhere, that no one cares...
Let's all sign the savekqix.com! I don't think it will change, not unless we get a lot of publicity! But it is worth a try...

[Kinoko]

I'll be honest with you, I think a petition would do more harm than good.

They're better off just finishing the game privately and releasing it much much later when the fuss has died down. Don't have a webpage, just leak it and let nature take it's course. Change the names and whatnot to be safe if you like.

I think the best thing we can all do is draw as little attention to the project as possible. A petition will just let Vivendi know they have a "fight" on their hands.

[Nikolas]

Last time I checked, democracy was dead.

I mean Bush is the president of the USA, and probably with less votes than his opponent, according to Moore anyway.

I don't think that Vivendi will give a shit about 100, 1000, 10000, 100000 people signing a petition, not even if Roberta herself has signed that petition. Hm, good idea, f they are to try that petition, maybe have Roberta signing it. That's a good move. 

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I second Kinoko. Reminds me of the Garfield and Hugo affair.

[splat44]

Hi,

According to elsewhere, if we search on Virendi web site regarding king quest series, we find nothing.

For company owning such right, they are certaintely not putting any efforts in selling those series!

Try search on vu website to see the proof.

Link: http://www.vugames.com

[Kinoko]

I love when people start posts with "hi".

[MrColossal]

Can you imagine the energy that kind of fanbase would give to developers making interesting, fun games, rather than meldromatic wanna-be anime cutscene fests?

Can you imagine what your enthusiasm to harm would be like if you turned it towards developers who need helpful crit?

Since this project is, as it seems, dead, what's the point of any of this?

Why not go find some people making a game that you think are doing a good job and offer them helpful crit and stop making huge assumptions on a game that you practically know nothing about.

Also, you claim that the KQ team was draining resources from other developers but... This is just a wildly awkward opinion that makes no sense... It's like saying when Ghormak helped Helm on Gladiator Quest he was draining the Ghormak from the community who could be doing something else... He chose to work with Helm just like these people chose to work on KQIX... And as far as eroding the fanbase... Turns out I can be the fan of many games at once! I don't just have to post on one forum or support one team. It's a little quirk I have.

Also, you claim

"But the hypocrisy I noted earlier, of indie gamers bitching about how all game publishers care about is glitz and then turning around and slobbering over games like this, gets me agitated."

I look forward to your crusade against good looking AGS games. Would you like to start with Apprentice? You'll notice many people posting how much they love the art and how pretty the graphics are when they hadn't even played the game yet.

"It bothers me that well-written, well-designed games that don't have sexy graphics and don't bootstrap themselves to famous IP get entirely overlooked, or at least relatively ignored"

Can you name a few?

Also, from that last comment... This is a shot in the dark but you wouldn't happen to be a member of The Hidden team would you?

Either way, if you want to crit the team in this way why not email them? You'll get a better response than putting your comments on some random site.

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

Last time I checked, democracy was dead.

Well, that's optimism for you.
And don't listen to Moore.  He's a fat moron, no matter what political party you back up...
And he won the popular for the second term (not trying to start a political discussion so don't respond to that)

More to the point however, democracy doesn't apply to this, and Vivendi isn't going to do anything even with half of the globe sending emails--Except for mabye make an automatic emailer and put up a stronger firewall.  It's different from other successes in petitions.

QFG 5 was made because lots of people emailed them, which made them think "Hey!  This will be a lot of money for us!"  It's not going to work that way this time.  They have nothing to gain from a fangame.  In fact, they probably think that they have something to lose.

Alacron, just stop.  Please.  No need to crap on the dead game.  It's almost like it's a dead man.  You're defiling a grave.

[Kweepa]

http://www.adventure-eu.com/index.php?option=com_repository&cat_id=3&game_id=42&file_id=31
The only character who really looks anime-ish is Alexander.

I have now completed my extensive investigation and I can safely say that none of the characters in this game look remotely anime.

[mcomp72]

since I'm sure you other post will be deleted, since we dont allow double posting here, ill write my response here.

Whats wrong with letting them just change the names of the characters and locations, and then release the game that way?

Nothing is wrong with it perse, but it is a HUGE amount of work.  Almost all of the art would need to be changed, dialog re-recorded, scripts rewritten.

Someone else mentioned that they should just release the game anyway, sometime in the future.  That would mean BIG TROUBLE for the KQIX folks.  Vivendi has said stop via their cease & desist order.  Even if they were to wait a year, and then release the game, the lawyers would know exactly who to come after.  It doesn't matter if they "leak" it on the net via Bittorent or whatever else.  As soon as Vivendi found out about it, the lawyers would pounce, and it wouldn't be pretty.

We're hoping that Vivendi will change their mind if they recieve enough letters from fans.  We know it's an uphill battle.  No question about that.

Remember, the original Star Trek TV show was saved (for one season, anyway) by a letter writing campaign.  Family Guy was saved, due in part to a letter writing campaign.  So these things CAN be effective.

We can either do nothing, in which case the game will not be released.  Or we can try, and then perhaps the game will be able to be released.  We choose to try.

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

No, they probably wouldn't have to change the scripting or the artwork, just the names of the characters.  So it would work, only thing is most people won't realize it's a KQ game.

[Snarky]

Changing the names would definitely NOT be sufficient. You think it's not copyright infringement just because it's (say) King Liam instead of King Graham, if he looks exactly the same, lives with a family that is exactly the same, in a castle that looks exactly the same, in a kingdom that looks exactly the same? Ever heard the phrase "characters and their likenesses"? Plagiarism is still a violation of copyright, and Vivendi's lawyers aren't stupid (at least not in this way). Since it would be easy to show that they are in fact the same characters, only under different names, just renaming them would have exactly zero effect on the legal situation.

In order to escape the clammy grip of copyright law, you would have to retool the whole game so that it could not be identified as a King's Quest game. That means not just the characters, but all the locations as well (Chessboard Land, anyone?). And not just graphics, but also the identifiable personalities of the characters, and recognizeable story elements. And of course you could have no explicit hooks back to the original games. Since this project started life as a King's Quest game, Vivendi could probably put the bar quite high if they wanted. Something as trivial as the dog-headed guards might be seen as a violation.

This would clearly be a major effort (and even just changing the names would mean having to re-record much of the dialogue, perhaps all of it if they couldn't get the same actors that were cast in the first place), and you would have to ask yourself if it's worth it. It's been very clear for a long time that KQIX is a FAN game. Rejoining the characters from the earlier games, revisiting locations recreated in more detail, experiencing a story that ties together the events of KQ 1-8, tying up loose ends and making goofy in-jokes... these are the pleasures of the fan-game sequel. None of them make any sense when deprived of their resonance back to the originals. Suddenly, a huge chunk of backstory is unaccounted for. The main characters are just random strangers with exceedingly convoluted resumés.

Even if the team could change the game while keeping the same story and gameplay, it wouldn't be anything like the game they had intended, because being a King's Quest game was so integral to the game design.* Why even bother?

* Admittedly, my interpretation based on things like the first script excerpt Cesar posted.

[Radiant]

Unfortunately, Snarky is entirely correct about the copyright issue. You make a game about King Maharg, Regor Wolci or Thruybush Geepwood, it's copyright violation. The only way you might be able to get away with it is if it were a parody, but even then it's possible they take you to court in order to argue about that - after all, QfG4.5 and QFO were taken down and they can reasonably be considered parodic.

[Nikolas]

I will agrre completly with Snarky and Radiant.

Now, I fearsome thought has crossed my mind.

How would eceryone feel, if we found out that after 1000s of letter to Vivendi, they decided to make KQIX commercial?

I mean would you be happy, that we won?

Or would you rather feel exploited after pwrticipating in an "advertising scheme"?

Just a thought don't kill me...

[modgeulator]

Or would you rather feel exploited after pwrticipating in an "advertising scheme"?

...And maybe it would turn out that the entire KQIX fan-based project was in fact an elaborate hoax concocted as a part of that scheme?

[Snarky]

I'd be pleased as punch.

It is their property after all. If they want to sell KQ games, that's fine with me, couldn't be happier. What pisses me off is that they're killing a fan game that would cause them no real harm, fucking over all the players and fans who have been looking forward to KQIX, for stupid corporate reasons.

Why couldn't they let us have our KQ fan game? It's really not going to affect Vivendi's profits in any way. Are they planning to make another KQ game? Obviously not. It's not going to compete with any game they sell. It's definitely not going to hurt sales of the KQ Collection, if they ever release it.

Instead of a petition, I think we should propose a deal to Vivendi. We'll license the KQ property, for some small sum like $5,000 or $10,000. I think we could raise that much. I'd certainly be willing to pledge ten bucks to revive this game, and I hope a few hundred other people would, too. Since the game is not going to be commercial, I don't think Vivendi ought to demand more. The game will include some statement on startup about how it's not an official game, not "canon", and how the only official KQ games are the ones released by Sierra. The title can be changed to something like "Every Cloak Has a Silver Lining: An unofficial King's Quest game". Vivendi can veto specific elements of the game if they like. The game can only be distributed for free on the website, not sold or physically distributed. Phoenix Entertainment can not make any other games (so that they can't use KQIX to publicize their other efforts).

I think that would be a fair deal. The terms are severe enough to discourage other fan-game makers (probably a concern for Vivendi), but not so hard that they can't be met. We get our game, Vivendi confirm their ownership of KQ, everyone is happy, no one boycotts anybody. Sounds good?

[Nacho]

How have you reached to the conclussion that a Fangame wouldn't hurt Vivendi? I won't play Vivendi's game anyway. I don't like modern adventure games. But the fangame should be free, I would download it. the fangame wouldn't hurt Vivendi if everybody was like me, but...

I guess there must be people who likes modern adventure games more than I do, but not enought to buy the price of Vivendi's game if they're stuffed of King Graham by playing the fangame.

Sorry to argue about that point, I might agree in all the rest, but I think that the stalement is incorrect.

[Snarky]

When was the last time Vivendi published an adventure game?

They're not in competition with amateur adventure game makers. That's just absurd. Besides, there are so many free amateur games available already (including two King's Quest titles) that stopping this one particular one isn't going to keep players from gorging themselves on indie games.

[mcomp72]

My hope is that everyone will take a few minutes to write to Vivendi, and let them know that they want the game to be released.  Sure, it might not work, but it's the best thing we can try to do.  I really believe that letters via snail mail have a much better chance of success than emails or anything else.

Drop by our website, if you haven't already.   www.savekqix.org

I hope we can make a difference.  As I said, I know after all the letters, Vivendi might not change their mind.  Doesn't mean we shouldn't try.  Let's all join together and give it a shot.  If it doesn't work, then nothing has changed.  The game will remain shutdown.  All we're out is the few minutes it took to write the letter and the cost of the stamp.  But if we're successful, think how great that will be for the adventure game community.

--Matt

[mcomp72]

Hey all,

Just wanted to let you know that we've updated the site.  We've added an email link, so it's now very easy to email Vivendi.  Click the link, and a new email pops with the letter already written and ready to go.  You just have to hit send.  10 seconds, that's all it takes.

So if you at all care about seeing King's Quest IX released, please take a few seconds and send an email to Vivendi.

http://www.savekqix.org/help.htm

Oh, we're also on MySpace now, as well.  Feel free to add us to your friends list.
http://www.myspace.com/savekqix