Hey everyone!
I don't know if I'm a little late here, or if this message doesn't correspond here, but I just wanted to tell you that The Silver Lining team has released a demo!
I don't know which engine that game use, but I just downloaded and tried it and it looks quite impressive... I has some little things that need smoothing, but if the story is as good as the rest, I think it will be a great game indeed.
Gamers who loved KQ6 will probably feel some nostalgia to see some familiar locations and scenes revamped with new graphics.
In short, I think the 75 MB download is worth a shot... I can't wait to play that game and Kaptain Brawe. It seems that none of them is being developed with AGS, but, hey, I love adventure games, regardless of the engine they are made with!
I hope you like that demo as much as I liked it!
Best regards,
- Pato Abusleme
P.S: Hehehehe! I forgot the most important thing: www.tsl-game.com
Since KQIX... err... silver lining isn't an AGS game, this thread doesn't belong here.
My apologies!
I just wanted to spread the word on these exciting news, because I think some users might be interested in checking it out.
I hope my next post's gonna be about an AGS game :)
Best regards,
- Pato Abusleme
Woud you like feedback on the demo? Here or on the TSL forums? Or not?
I hope that the next game will be an AGS one :)
As for the demo I still reserve my spot here for further discussion, should you want it. But a question: If the demo was made back in 2005, why not polish it at least before releasing it to the general public? ;)
I got stuck! In the first introduction screen (The birthday for King Alexander...) and I couldn't Alt+Tab out, even Ctrl+Alt+Del didn't work so I had to press reset. I might try the demo again if you promise it won't crash more.
wow, it looks really impressive! and the voice acting is great.
only thing is its unbelievably slow on my pc. to slow to play. are the backgrouds realtime?and if so, can you change angles?
Mordalles, you can move the camera around a bit wit the WASD keys, but it seems to be a debug function rather than a feature, since the locations obviously aren't built to be seen from other angles.
Which begs the question why they chose to make the backgrounds 3d rather than pre-rendered. If there is to be no camera rotation, etc, fully 3d is wasted and memory consumptive for no reason. Also, some of the models (like the dog guard you talk to) are rather dodgy. His arm is super thin and visibly twists when he gestures. I think if they had stuck to pre-rendered scenery they could have invested more polys in the characters and kept the speed higher and requirements lower, while still having more time to devote to game design. None of this matters since the game is almost complete, though.
I think the 3D backgrounds does help to make conversations more cinematic (and I have a feeling there will be lots of talking in this game - TLJ amounts). But I do agree, it seems a bit wasted, especially since the characters look rather dated up close. But just because these scenes aren't set up for camera movement, it doesn't mean that it won't be used further into the game - I could imagine a nice chase scene with the camera tracking through the environment.
Hey all!
I just wanted to say that I can't answer some questions posted here because I'm not related to The Silver Lining team in any way and have never contacted them.
I just posted the news about the demo release because I found it on their website and got very excited about it.
I also have some trouble due to the requirements of the game, so I'm planning on running it on a faster computer. So far, I just saw the beginning of the game and a couple of scenes outside the castle.
So, for doubts, observations and feedback, I recommend you to write directly to www.tsl-game.com
In the meantime, I hope this game is gonna be good! Now I'll wait for KQ3 VGA voice pack and bug free release, along with The Wizard and the Princess Remake.
Best regards to everyone!
- Pato Abusleme
The demo has potential and some nice technical features, but the massive amount of bus and nitpicks makes this game hardly playable. There were hard-to-find and hidden room exits, no justification why they used 3d over 2d for this game style, a pretty uncomfortable GUI, lots of bugs in the dialogs and the message box popping up, one time the camera got all winded up and the player disappeared, I had to close then and it froze with a black screen.
The idea with the credits in game was nice, but when the list of twenty-something 3d artists was displayed for 10 seconds, I could barely see anything anymore, they should've split those up. Also, I didn't like that you really had to know lots and lots of story information about the King's Quest series (which I don't have), thus I had no idea who I was or what was going on. Names were introduced that I was obviously supposed to know.
As I said, some nice ideas (the lighting, some scenes) can't make up a really effed up gameplay. I hope they fix lots of issues for the full game - maybe they should've spent a longer time to perfectionize what they present.
Oh, and also the walking animation is horribly too slowly playing for the movement speed. That's pretty awful to look at and really is quite a beginner's mistake - I wonder how this can happen with such a big team of people.
Quote from: ProgZmax on Mon 31/07/2006 14:59:09
Which begs the question why they chose to make the backgrounds 3d rather than pre-rendered. If there is to be no camera rotation, etc, fully 3d is wasted and memory consumptive for no reason.
exactly my thoughts. ;D if the backgrounds were pre-rendered, it would have been playable on my pc, but now its just too slow. :'(
"Video card failed to initialize."
Bummer.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone! ;D
If you have any bugs to report, feedback to give, or if you just need hints with the demo, please post them in our forum at http://www.tsl-game.com/forum/ It is easier for us to track these things when they are all in one place. :)
Also, I have just released RC1 Patch v.1.0.1 last night which fixes many bugs and adds some enhancements to the TSL Public Demo RC1. This patch must be applied after the RC1 demo has been installed. You can download both the demo and the patch from our Trilogy section at: http://www.tsl-game.com/trilogy/
Quote from: dkh on Mon 31/07/2006 17:57:47...no justification why they used 3d over 2d for this game style...
Just wondering... why is there even a need to justify using 3D over 2D? Surely both are valid mediums of expression.
(The rest of everyone's criticisms are perfectly valid, however, and I agree with many of them, though I only spent about two minutes playing the demo before boredom kicked in.)
Sorry, but there's no point in discussing 2D vs. 3D in a forum whose engine is obviously designed for 2D-only use. As Inquisitive Stranger said, they are both equally effective mediums, and our use of 2.5D in our game is an excellent compromise. :)
For those of you that have the RC1 Demo, there is a bug in there that actually lets you move cameras around and explore (press ASDW, then press m and move your mouse). I actually find it quite fun! And as a kid I always wanted a KQ game to be a fully immersive 3D world. As an adult, I know the costs, budgets and resources to accomplish a full 3D game are enormous, and a single individual or non-commercial group would not be able to pull it off. At least, not successfully.
So now we're back to our game. We have characters, objects and some scene elements in full 3D, while walls some floors and other flat surfaces are textured but flat 2D, just creating the illusion. :)
Don't get me wrong, it's not like I couldn't appreciate art and games in 3d (I started the AGS3d project after all - I also program in C++ with OpenGL a lot, which is pure 3d), but to me, I always thought: "well that model is good, but still it doesn't look nearly as good as a well-drawn sprite in 2d can look". Technology isn't far enough yet (atleast for non-commercial and non-professional products). The use of three dimensions doesn't open any new gameplay possibilities or anything either (The Silver Lining could be done just as well in 2d). So, as long as the player doesn't get any kind of positive feedback from that third dimension, it's pointless having it in the game, heavily adding to its complexity to program and to model rooms and people. But if you gave the player the possibilty to look around or have the camera follow the player, the third dimension would be justified, because there could be situations in which the player really says: "wow, this looking around gives me a whole new feeling - that's something I couldn't do in a 2d-game". Right now your camera works the same way it works in 2d-adventure games. It observes the locations from one fixed spot (you can change it due to that bug, but then heavy graphical errors occur) and when you come close to some kind of edge, it jumps. As long as this isn't changed, I will personally stick to my thought that you waste resources just to create something in 3d which could be faster, better looking and smaller in size in 2d.
I hope that explains where I am comming from. Don't be offended, I appreciate your efforts, I am just trying to help you guys to improve further. Also, note the other serious issues I mentioned in my first post, I really listed everything there which kept me away from having too much fun with your product.
Oh don't worry, I'm not offended at all. :)
There are two things I would like you to look at and give your thoughts on:
First in the demo, go to the IoC Garden and click Hand on Cloak. That whole dynamic camera effect is very difficult to do in 2D, and it requires frame by frame rendering, but in 3D all it takes is defining a camera path then you can alter it however you wish.
Secondly, check out our Evolution wallpapers at http://www.tsl-game.com/media/wallpapers/ I will actually be writing up a Journal entry about them soon, and possibly doing more later this month based on the same concept. Conceptually it illustrates how we did not just make a 3D game. All 3D models and textured evolved from a black and white 2D sketch. The whole art process itself is an evolution through the stages as illustrated in those pics.
So, I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on these, because we actually do incorporate 2D into our 3D design, and in using 2.5D in our game, I strongly feel we capture the best of both art forms. :)
Patch v.2.0 has been released for the TSL demo. As usual, it may be downloaded at http://www.tsl-game.com/trilogy
Among the more significant fixes for this patch is the annoying slowdown in the castle's main hall, and the ambiguity associated with boarding the ferry.
Ok, before I start a huge download again, did this fix the 'video card failed to initialize' bug? Or am I stuck?
I just played the demo!
Mordalles: Is your PC really old hardware wise or did the patch speed things up? The game ran smoothly and my computer handled it easily.
I think the game works in 3D myself. The graphics while not next gen level, were good enough to be pleasing to the eye.
What did annoy me though was how lines of speech didn't flow properly between characters, and they'd talk over each other; a fault I have seen in videogames on the PSone.
Oh, and sorry but those tree's do really look like 2D trees, but meh.
Quote from: Radiant on Mon 28/08/2006 12:38:16
Ok, before I start a huge download again, did this fix the 'video card failed to initialize' bug? Or am I stuck?
What type of video card are you using (ie. NVIDIA, ATI). Have you tried downloading the latest drivers?
Quote from: ManicMatt on Tue 29/08/2006 01:00:07
What did annoy me though was how lines of speech didn't flow properly between characters, and they'd talk over each other; a fault I have seen in videogames on the PSone.
The Torque engine seems to have some problems with .ogg sound files, which is causing the speech anomalies. The programming department has come up with a probable fix for this, but I don't know if it will be in another patch for the demo, or if you'll have to wait for the full game (or a future demo)
In response to comments we've had, our programming director Petter Holmberg recently said this in our forums about differences between the demo and full versions:
QuoteCharacter movement: This is a matter of adjusting animations and character movement speeds. We'll take care of this in the final version and make at least the main characters as near perfect as possible. This also includes stair climbing etc.
Lipsynch: There's no actual lipsynch in the demo. Just a generic lip animation. The final game will have accurate lipsynch. We're developing the system for it and it's coming along really nicely.
Character loads: This is also going to be fixed in the full game.
Clipping: We'll do our best to match animations and positions to avoid visible clipping, but as I'm sure you've noticed from playing other games this is really tricky to avoid completely.
Textures: Our original textures are high-res but in order to improve framerate we convert some to a lower resolution when the high detail level is not required. Scenes will be optimized for a good compromize between looks and playability later, so you can look forward to improvements.
Effects: That's also something that will be added to the degree that we have time and resources. It's a question of priority. But you are right, those things are important to the feel of the game.
Camera movement: That's the director's call. But we'll have a pretty cool camera system in the final game allowing various camera modes similar to what you see used in movies, and they will be used when appropriate.