Team projects: make sure you license material AS IT'S MADE

[Monsieur OUXX]

Hi all,

I've witnessed the following appalling situation:
- I joined a project for a point n click game. The project had been existing for a few years
- When I joined there was already another "newcomer" around who had been helping for a few months and produced a few backgrounds and drawings, additionally to the material already existing before his arrival.
- At some stage, the guy "rage-quit". Literally. He posted a message about some thing annoying him in the project, and seeing that the project leader didn't answer quickly or deeply enough, he suddenly said that he was wasting his time, and leaving...
- ...But he also said he forbade the team to use any of the material he produced. Bam. Just like that.

So the project was drawn months backwards because we have to redraw everything that guy made.

So my advice is : When you lead a team project, make sure the licensing / forum rules / whatnot include a section saying that a piece of material belongs to the project, as soon as it's posted.

[cat]

I thought about this topic before, luckily I never had problems with this.
But I think this is also an issue the other way round - is the contributor still allowed to use the supplied art or music somewhere? In a portfolio? Even in another game?

[[delete}]

It's sad to hear that Grock left.

[Monsieur OUXX]

It's sad to hear that Grock left.

I was trying to keep it anonymous


EDIT: Amelie, did you register on the forum just for that one post?

[[delete}]

Yes. Have not much contribute actually. But I hope your Indy game will re-define the adventure genre, as Fate of Atlantis did.

[Monsieur OUXX]

Lol.
It's OK, Seven Cities actually WILL redefine the genre.

[CaptainD]

Good advice.  International teams made up of people who have never (and in all likelihood will never) meet in person is fraught with danger.  (Not that meeting in person would necessarily prevent these issues from cropping up, but you know what I mean.)

[bicilotti]

Interesting thoughts, Monsieur OUXX. Still, wouldn't you all be wary of a project which is asking you to say goodbye to any right you have on your production?

[Calin Leafshade]

Still, wouldn't you all be wary of a project which is asking you to say goodbye to any right you have on your production?

I think this is pretty standard and understandable. I mean otherwise the team member can effectively hold the game to ransom at the slightest thing.

[Radiant]

Interesting thoughts, Monsieur OUXX. Still, wouldn't you all be wary of a project which is asking you to say goodbye to any right you have on your production?

You don't have to give up all your rights to your art; you could just give the game project an irrevocable license to use particular pieces of art.

[Monsieur OUXX]

Interesting thoughts, Monsieur OUXX. Still, wouldn't you all be wary of a project which is asking you to say goodbye to any right you have on your production?

You don't have to give up all your rights to your art; you could just give the game project an irrevocable license to use particular pieces of art.

Exactly. Otherwise, could you imagine if someone could reclaim their rights on the art after the game is released? That would cause mayhem. "I don't like what you did with my art, I want you to remove the game from download."

[Eric]

You always have the option to pull an Alan Smithee if you're ashamed of or unhappy with the final work.

[Nikolas]

You know... from the other side of the coin: sometimes a project really doens't go as planned (at least in the head of those involved, or the artist). So after a while the team breaks up, or some members quit. I find it very unfair to the artist to have given (FOR FREE) his art and then disappear without any control on it...

Sorry guys, but it's a grey zone and I'm sure that the artist also had his reasons..

[Monsieur OUXX]

Sorry guys, but it's a grey zone and I'm sure that the artist also had his reasons..

We're not questioning his reasons, this is just a tip for project managers. If you think that's unfair, think of the way it works in companies: they own everything you did with your work computer, even if it's not related with your work at all.

[Snarky]

Well, they claim they do. I think they'd have a hard time having that claim upheld in the case of stuff that is entirely separate from your work (writing a novel in your spare time, for example).

But if you contribute to a project and then leave, I don't really see it as a gray area at all. The work you did was for that project, so they get to use it. If you're not happy with it, decline credit (the Alan Smithee option, as Eric says). The only thing I could imagine that would give contributors some moral right to withdraw their contributions is if the project changed radically into something they found offensive or potentially illegal. For example if an Indiana Jones fan game became an Indy porn parody. Or a project turned into pro-scientology propaganda (or propaganda for any religion, or atheism, when that wasn't originally the plan).

[bicilotti]

We're not questioning his reasons, this is just a tip for project managers. If you think that's unfair, think of the way it works in companies: they own everything you did with your work computer, even if it's not related with your work at all.

That's the point: a company pays you a wage (a substantial one, hopefully ).

AFAIK, when you make a contribution without restrictions, you can't enjoin a prohibition of use for this project afterwards. It is only possible if the original purpose gets adjusted or extended. E.g. further games or a change into a commercial game.

You don't have to give up all your rights to your art; you could just give the game project an irrevocable license to use particular pieces of art.

That's an interesting scenario. Let's say you drew art for a project (freeware project) and the project leader decided to:
    1. go commercial (without giving you a dime) (or)
    2. twist the project plot to something you find morally unacceptable (KKK propaganda)

I wouldn't like my art/music to be (ab)used then (implying I were an artist, of course). I wonder if there is a (tested in court) license which allows me to at least challenge such project leader.

[Radiant]

For the first, yes: the various free software licenses are applicable. For the second, regarding the indie scene, not really. You should work with people you trust, not with legalistic contracts.

[CaptainD]

Radiant - yes, it would be a shame to have to get into the realms of people signing contracts before they agreed to work with each other.  However I think that as more and more AGS games are commercial projects than ever before, it may become a necessary evil. Any such contract should protect the interests of both the project and the individuals involved.

Still, while trust is good, it obviously has to work both ways - and good communication is vital.  People so often just go off the radar and then you're in limbo - can you use their stuff?  Have they given implied permission by leaving the project without telling you that you can't use it? 

Whether it is done by a legally-binding contract or an informal agreement, I think one thing that needs to be clarified straight away is whether the individual is offering exclusive rights - with my musicians for Troll Song and Captain Disaster for instance, right from the start we agreed that any use was non-exclusive.  But even then there are questions to be answered about specific use, either in terms of the project or what the individual is going to do; I've been very fortunate so far in that all three musicians I've worked with have been good communicators and honest (as I hope I have been as project manager for these games).

[Eric]

I find it very unfair to the artist to have given (FOR FREE) his art and then disappear without any control on it...

I think you guys might be talking about two different scenarios:

A. Artist quits project, packs up his work, takes it with him. Other members of project have to replace that work.
B. Artists contributes to project, project goes nowhere. Five years pass. Project dead in the water. Artist's work vanishes into the aether.

Both can be covered by up-front licensing that includes reversion of rights pending lack of publication.

That's an interesting scenario. Let's say you drew art for a project (freeware project) and the project leader decided to:
    1. go commercial (without giving you a dime) (or)
    2. twist the project plot to something you find morally unacceptable (KKK propaganda)

The first can be covered from the start. Documentation should define the nature of the project and the potential for profits ("I, Eric, agree to contribute thirteen backgrounds to the freeware game, Etc."). If and when the for-profit state changes, those licenses/contracts have to be rewritten and renegotiated. As to the second, this scenario actually happens quite often in creative industries, and if you've done contract work, you've done contract work. You can ask to have your name removed, and if you have a union to back you, they can force the removal of your name.