What's your opinion on death in adventure games?

Ytterbium · Fri 30/01/2004 20:36:24

I think that if it's not too intrusive, it can be done well. However, the early Sierra games did it horribly, which is why I've come to hate it. Not only can you easily die, but if you save after getting stuck, you have to redo the entire game. I was playing the original Police Quest the other day, and died when I got shot in the jail by the car theif. So I reloaded, tried to search him for weapons, and the game lovingly presented me with "You should have thought of that when you had him on his belly!" That's when I stopped playing the game, and I haven't gone back to it since. Some people can tell me "use multiple save slots!!!" I shouldn't be forced to do that in an adventure game. A well-designed adventure game should not allow me to get stuck and have to restart the game.

Mr Jake · Fri 30/01/2004 20:43:38

In certian places I think it adds some to the game (like the bit in PQ you described) but sometimes I think its stupid, walking deads are the worst

MillsJROSS · Fri 30/01/2004 22:07:48

I enjoyed death in Sierra games, the thing to do it always have a save in the begining on eac"section" of those games. A death in a game of todays expected full length, they would be really annoying, but old sierra games, when you really look at them don't have that many puzzles comparatively. So in order to lenghten the game, the walking dead was invented.

-MillsJROSS

TerranRich · Sat 31/01/2004 01:42:00

Ooh! Yet ANOTHER original are-deaths-good-or-bad argument! Yay...

Bad: Sierra walking deads and pointless deaths.
Better?: LEC style deathless games, where you can't die, no matter what you do
Problem: Hard to think of workarounds. If y ou get caught by guards, what would they do? Tickle you until you submitted and then let you go?
Solution: Have a replay/retry option upon dying, where you can turn back time and do it over again.

That's my opinion. You'll be hearing this the next time somebody asks for our opinions on whether deaths are good or bad in adventure games.

Oh, and Ytterbium, you naught chemical element you... having such a large and intrusive signature could be annoying to some. Try and tone it down a notch.

Raggit · Sat 31/01/2004 02:50:21

I think death is important to adventure games. The death element and the fear of death adds to the adventurous thrill.

Duck · Sat 31/01/2004 04:24:09

I like death in Sierra games. It amuses me. I'm used to saving - I'm mainly an action gamer.

Nostradamus · Sat 31/01/2004 06:59:39

Funny deaths are cool as long as there is a retry option and you don't depend on your saved games.
However the deaths in early Sierra games where you walked on a bridge and moved slightly ot the sides and fell and died are just annoying.

Mr Jake · Sat 31/01/2004 08:09:46

the death in MI was the best (ew, was it 1 or 3

cant remember

)

But as terrain said, deaths are ok, aslong as they have a retry. Another thing I hate is that stupid things like the officer in goldrush

which are funny the frist time, but after that it gets annoying, you end up turning the speed up cause it takes so long, then walk into a rivier

TheYak · Sat 31/01/2004 08:46:48

Avoid the death puzzles shouldn't exist. You know, the type where you've got to move the character along narrow ledges or through a pitch-black labyrinth. Other than that, I take what the author gives. My favorite adventure games have been LEC/LA but I've played most of the Sierra ones as well. Particularly in the SQ series, I got my money's worth in replay value as I attempted to find every grisley or unique death in the game.

Sudden decompression sucks! ... Ah, those were the days.

Eggie · Sat 31/01/2004 12:14:53

Death good, walking deads bad.

I think the knowledge you can die can really add somthing to the atmosphere, of course, if it's done badly it can take you RIGHT OUT.

I say, find a compromise or just leave it out.

And definately no walking deads! Call me small-minded but it honestly escapes me how anyone could be entertained by such a cheap, frustrating and overally horrible device.

Raggit · Sat 31/01/2004 15:25:51

Most of the early Sierra adventure games (like KQ1,2,3 etc) were not as complex as the later ones, so a random death made it more challanging. Or in some instances, frustrating.

Trumgottist · Sat 31/01/2004 17:00:24

The solution to the "what happens when a guard catch you" problem in Toonstruck was fun. You get thrown in jail, with new puzzles to solve in order to escape.

DGMacphee · Sat 31/01/2004 17:02:59

I hate death in adventure games.

Especially Grim Fandango.

Ginny · Sat 31/01/2004 21:36:52

Hee hee, lol DG.

Trumgottist: I agree (havnt played toonstrcuk though) that if a game is in a "lose the game" situation it should allow (to some extent) continuation. Of course this can be taken too far, for example if dying in a game brings you to heaven and you have to ressurect your body, now that's just taking too far

.
I recently decided to use AGS and this community for testing out things, though, so making a very short but full of freedom game would make a nice experimnent

I have some more to say on this subject, but tommorow, good night my lab-rats

Goldmund · Sun 01/02/2004 00:59:22

It would be best if we'd be able to actually administer death directly to the players.
See their minds at work!

As for the jail solution: okay, so you escape the jail, and get caught again. What does the player do? Escapes the jail again, digs that tunnel and wanders through the air-ducts maze again?
Nope, he/she restores.
Much like when the character dies.
So, what's the difference?

Ionias · Sun 01/02/2004 05:27:35

I took great lengths in Fatman to have deaths. I love them. Space Quest deaths were a true inspiration. However, in all fairness there just must be a *retry* option ... unless you like getting flamed.

Trumgottist · Sun 01/02/2004 09:35:02

Quote from: Goldmund on Sun 01/02/2004 00:59:22As for the jail solution: okay, so you escape the jail, and get caught again. What does the player do? Escapes the jail again, digs that tunnel and wanders through the air-ducts maze again?
Nope, he/she restores.
Much like when the character dies.
So, what's the difference?

Not in Toonstruck, he doesn't. The thing is: this was fun, and the solution was different each time since the jail guard prevented you from escaping the same way again. I actually got caught on purpose a couple of times just to see all escapes. (In the end, the guard gave up, and left, leaving an open jail cell.)

The point I'm trying to make is that a death/undo sequence isn't the only way to handle potential dangers.

M · Sun 01/02/2004 11:36:09

Yeah, a 'retry' is probably the easiest way to deal with it. Sometimes the scenes can be amusing (alla space quest) but often they're frustrating. Especially if you havent saved for a while and have to play loads again.

Personally, I try to avoid deaths or use them as little as possible. But thats just me.

Kweepa · Sun 01/02/2004 14:45:43

I was really enjoying Pleurghburg right up until I was shot, even though I was a police officer carrying a gun of my own, which OF COURSE I went for.

My last save was about an hour previous. Grrrr!

I guess a retry would have been okay.

My opinion? Death to death in adventure games.

Timosity · Sun 01/02/2004 14:59:22

IMO as long as you know it is possible to die it's OK, cause then atleast you know to save regularly, remembering to do so becomes part of the game.

Walking deads are silly, especially when you don't know until right near the end that you needed to pick something up a few hours/days ago.

Death can be fun, but I also think that a retry option is the best workaround.