April MAGS

[JuuL]

Well, this is a great MAGS. I'm not sure which game I'm going to vote for. I think The Last Harvest and Snake were the best games, but they both have bery big pros and cons, so it's difficult for me to decide. Sinitrena's game was ok, but not nearly as good as some of his other games - I really liked Lonely Night . But the grahpics really are painful to look at sometimes. I must say that I really didn't like Operation Save Blue Cup very much, but I do agree with Wretched that it has the best ending of all the games.

But the real reason why I post this is to ask why we never see any statistics about the votes. I think it would be interesting to know how many people actually vote for the MAGS - and how many votes each game gets. I don't know if this has already been discussed before, since I've only been voting since january '06 (where I tried making a game but failed to finish it), but I would like to know if there is any reason why things are done as they are 

[Klaus]

But the real reason why I post this is to ask why we never see any statistics about the votes. I think it would be interesting to know how many people actually vote for the MAGS - and how many votes each game gets. I don't know if this has already been discussed before, since I've only been voting since january '06 (where I tried making a game but failed to finish it), but I would like to know if there is any reason why things are done as they are 

Hi JuuL. Yes there are reasons, let's go back in time: When the online voting first started in 2003 it was possible to see the current statistics right after submitting a vote. For "nice" voters it was good to see how their favourite game is placed but "bad" voters also had better control to push their game up in the list. That's why the statistics are no longer displayed that way. But the system now - after 3 years of improvement - works different and it might be possible to go back to this style of statistic info again.

You might say: "It's not neccessary to see the statistics during the voting period, just show it at the end". This was practised some times. In the last months the time between end of voting and start of the new competition were very short so it wasn't really useful to show the results for just some hours. Displaying the results of the previous month (if they are shown longer) might confuse.

But there's two other things that stopped me from showing the results:
a) Some people were "diappointed" about the number of voters. Seeing about 15-20 people taking part in the voting is actually a very good result but some expect (much) more. So there already were some strange postings about this...
b) If you submit a game (maybe for the first time ever) and see it left back with 0 or 1 vote only this might discourage you from creating more games. Of course this depends on the person: Some try to improve, others just give up. So I guess it's better just to say Game ABC made the race.

Now to help adventure creators to improve their games there's the question during the voting period about your experiences with the entries, pros and cons... That way a participant also can see where his/her game is placed even more detailed.

Perhaps this is a good point to ask you all about how the statistics should be handled. Do you agree with my opinion or should this work in a different way?

[JuuL]

Thanks for answering so quickly, Klaus.
I'm not sure about the first argument.  Does this mean that it's possible to vote more than once? (not that I've tried to, of course  )
I understand that showing the results of the last months on the official MAGS site could be confusing when a new month's game has already begun. But actually I was thinking about showing them on the monthly thread (like this one).
I think that you're right about how showing results may discourage some game makers. That would of course be a bad thing. But maybe showing how few voters are actually taking part of the vote could also have another effect: Making people want to support the game makers by voting more. I guess it could do both... so the question is if the good or the bad effect will be the biggest one.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really don't know if showing the number of votes would be a good idea.... I was just curious.

Now to help adventure creators to improve their games there's the question during the voting period about your experiences with the entries, pros and cons...

I think you're right about the importance of telling the game makers about the pros and cons of their games so that it may be easier for them to improve their games. Maybe I wasn't thorough enough before. So here's some extra comments - about why, in the end, I decided to vote for Stefan Z's Snake.

Spoiler

Though Snake had some cons (thin story, average graphics, a few strange puzzles and an almost invisible location that I only found because I was lucky) the game generally worked, and the humour was quite good. The game also had some interesting ideas, like the inability to carry things in the beginning of the game - this was actually what really made me vote for it. I also liked how the way the character's looked changed so much (with and without hands etc.).
The Last Harvest was a really promising game - but unfortunately it didn't live up to it's full potential. Though I was at first fascinated by the mood of the story and the locations, I think the story and some of the later puzzles was disappointing. I must admit that I only tried two of the possible three endings so I might be wrong about this, but I think that we were left without an answer to what was going on - and even without an answer to why our lack of knowledge shouldn't bother us. The four evil spirits were also a bit unoriginal... the description reminded me a bit too much about the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, though I don't know if this was intended or not. Finally, I was I bit confused about the universe of the game. At first I thought it was a medieval universe, so being told by a magician to get a gun really surprised me.

[close]

[Klaus]

Does this mean that it's possible to vote more than once?

It was possible in the early votings as I confided "too much" in the fairness of all voters ("only vote once" term) and there was no automated check. But double voters were deleted manually and the result was always correct in the end. Now double voting is not that easy anymore but I still hope people respect the rule only to vote once so checking the votings manually is easier now...

But actually I was thinking about showing them on the monthly thread (like this one).
...
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I really don't know if showing the number of votes would be a good idea....

Let's see how we can go on with this after some more opinions are posted, okay?

Maybe I wasn't thorough enough before. So here's some extra comments - about why, in the end, I decided to vote for Stefan Z's Snake.

I think your first comments about the games were already very helpful. The hidden details make it even more complete, thanks

[Sinitrena]

Sinitrena's game was ok, but not nearly as good as some of his other games - I really liked Lonely Night

Just so you know: I'm female. (And I think Lonely Night is my best game so far  )

I had no time to play all games this month so I can't comment on them.

But I think it would be good to show the numbers of votes for each game. I'd really like to know how many votes my games get. I think it could encourage people to vote when they see how less votes there actually are and I don't see it would be too bad to see when your game didn't get much votes (or non at all). This just shows that people thought the other games were better not that a game was actually bad. In my opinion it would be a good idea to show the voting statistics in the monthly thread.

[JuuL]

Just so you know: I'm female. (And I think Lonely Night is my best game so far  )

Oh, great. It's good to know that there are some good female game designers out there. I just guess that my mind had automatically assumed that you were a male clown with green hair wearing a suit. Obviously my subconsciousness is unfamiliar with the idea of "avatars"  :
And I have to say it again: I really enjoyed Lonely Night - and I'm still listening to the music sometimes.

[Stefan Z]

I appreciate it when voters/gamers tell what they like and dislike. It helps people improve.
The cons you mentioned about my game will certainly be in the back of my head when making another game, Juul. And thanks for voting for me

I feel I have to apologise for not discussing the entries: I have some work to catch up after I've been busy last month making my entry, so I haven't been able up to play the other games.

About the system: Definitely don't show votes before the voting has closed.

a) Some people were "disappointed" about the number of voters. Seeing about 15-20 people taking part in the voting is actually a very good result but some expect (much) more. So there already were some strange postings about this...

b) If you submit a game (maybe for the first time ever) and see it left back with 0 or 1 vote only this might discourage you from creating more games. Of course this depends on the person: Some try to improve, others just give up. So I guess it's better just to say Game ABC made the race.

a) That's a surprisingly low figure. Then I'm in favour of showing percentages instead of absolute numbers.

b) I myself didn't make my entry to get votes or to win the competition and consider it a very childish approach to say: "Ooh, people didn't vote for me, now I won't make another game". But it depends on the person, most definitely.

Whether or not you should make the votes public? I'd say yes.

Grtz,
Stefan

[Klaus]

The voting is over and the winner is very clear again even if it wasn't that easy to decide who's to win, what we can see from the published pros and cons...

So this month's congratulations go to
nihilyst and his entry The Last Harvest

Many thanks to all other participants, too.


For those who are interested in the voting statistics the result in detail can be seen in the voting section of the official MAGS website for the next days. It's just a click away: here. On mouseover you see the percentage of votes for each entry.
I'll keep this system for the next competitions but if in general you prefer to see the absolute number of voters instead of percentages just tell me via PM. Thanks.

[JuuL]

Congratulations to nihilyst!

Showing the percentage of votes seems to be a good idea.

[nihilyst]

Thanks to everybode, who played my game, and thanks to all who voted for me. I really appreciated the other entries, too, and I'm looking forward to new cool games next month, but I definitely won't participate in May. I'm back on working on my RPG now ^^

cheers
nihilyst

[Peder 🚀]

Congrats nihilyst!

I thought your game was the best!
so, I had to vote for you!Ã,  hehe.

Though, the other entries was also GREAT!
But yours won my vote!.


I will probably not enter next months mags, cause I busy recording my music, and making some websites etc...
AND I gonna be an Apprentice! lol...
For real though!