MAGS August(Winner Announced) Topic: Episode 1

[OneDollar]

Warning - long post ahead!

As for the comments: I'm not sure how easy it is to change the voting site. If you can leave comments there (like said before) and make these visible after voting so you'll have the number of votes and the comments it would be a nice addition. At the moment it's just anonymous voting and that's it. There's no feedback or result (other than who won) after the voting has taken place which would give me the feeling of 'why should I vote at all...'. ?

A bit more statistics and motivation would be nice. The comments during voting shouldn't be mandatory though to scare people off.

This discussion's been going on for a while and I'm getting slightly uneasy about where its heading. It wouldn't be fair for me to complain if Dual decides to make any changes and I didn't say something though, so here are my opinions:

Comments
Personally I never really thought too much about commenting during a competition, though I can see the point that it might influence voting. I love getting feedback on my games and I wouldn't want to discourage comments, but now we've got the shorter voting time to make way for theme submitting days why we can't leave off commenting until the two days at the end of each month (after the competition's finished but before the next one starts)? If the thread gets locked before you get a chance to leave some feedback why not just PM the author? After all who's the comment for, people who read the MAGS thread or the person who made the game?

I don't really see the point of having comments on the MAGS site (except I suppose as an alternative games database only for MAGS games) and I've no idea if its even possible. Personally I only ever go there to vote anyway. If people want feedback they should submit their game to the completed games thread and/or the AGS games database. If they don't think it's good enough for either of those, they could post in the Critics Lounge, or just PM Leon to commission a review!

Why not follow the example of some of the other competition threads - comments like "Wow, that was great" or "Congrats on finishing, it was really fun" seem innocent enough and could be made during the competition (they encourage people to play the games but not necessarily to vote on them) but leave off the in-depth analysis and comparison until they voting is over.

The only other thing I'd add is that if people do post in the completed games thread or make an entry in the database it seems reasonable for people to comment there even while the competition is ongoing. Obviously you can't really (and probably shouldn't) compare the entries if you're doing this.

Statistics
I strongly agree with Klaus' method of running this: never show any results other than "This person won". No total votes, no ratios and definitely no "Won by x votes". Part of the idea of MAGS is to provide an easy way for people to get into AGS, and a lot of people on these forums started out with a MAGS game (I've got three games to my name and they're *all* MAGS). Imagine a first time entrant who's just spent 25-odd days working hard on an adventure game which they submit and they get told that nobody voted for - that nobody liked it. That's hardly encouraging.

I also wouldn't want to see the total votes, especially if its as low as Tijne said. If I'd have thought that only 20 people would have played Breakdown (and I've no idea how many did during the competition) I probably wouldn't have bothered making it. Is it seriously that low? Don't tell me, I don't want to know. Ignorance is bliss as they say, and imagining your game being played by loads of people all of whom enjoy it is a lot more encouraging and rewarding an experience than knowing the hard statistics. Then again, that could just be me

Ok, if a vote is particularly close between two games it's fair enough to say "The votes were really close this week...", and Dual could confidentially tell someone in their congratulatory PM that they did much better than the other entrant if he wants to, but that should be kept between him and the entrant not posted for all the forums to see.

***

Sorry for the rant.

[Gudforby]

My opinion: By adding a topic in Completed Game Announcement, including a link to mags website and this tread, way we can also "promote" the competition, in the terms that it's visible elsewhere.

Agree with 1$ on the statistics and the short-based comments during the game and voting period.

[Tijne]

Warning - another long post ahead! xD

...I also wouldn't want to see the total votes, especially if its as low as Tijne said. If I'd have thought that only 20 people would have played Breakdown (and I've no idea how many did during the competition) I probably wouldn't have bothered making it....

Err.. Mediafire tells me how many downloads I've recieved per file.  The '20'ish was how many downloads it said I had within the voting period, no one told me that. xD

What I was distressed about was that the actual voting-total ended up being merely a third of the number of downloads...    I mean... why the heck are people downloading the games during the voting period.... but still -not- voting?  Even if you hated all the games, I still think you would vote for the one you hated the least......it's not like they -didn't know about MAGS;  the only place I linked my game was in the MAGS thread/website. o.O...  Any ideas?


Comment/Statistics..
I personally want them, it helps me to see what;
-- I could improve on
-- I could fix up
-- I could do next time to improve my game
It just basically improves my ability to make games in the future.

Yeah, I could make a whole thread for the MAGS game, or post in the critics lounge..  but I feel some games don't really need or deserve an entire thread devoted to them.. nor do I want to force people to play something they may not like just for my own detailed critisim.  I just want normal people who normally would play the game to be able to post a simple comment about how they felt about the game.  But more importantly... in those threads, the topic is limited to only discussing the game.  Never would you think of comparing it to another game.  What I love most about MAGS is that it isn't just a game, but a collection of games competing -- hearing why I lost someone's vote, or why I gained someone else's is my favourite thing about this competition and it has been Leon's review about what I could improve on and what the other guy did better than me that has kept me playing.

I would also love to get this informaition as soon as people are ready and able to give it.  I already spent 25-odd days making the darn game, I would like the feedback asap so that I don't start planning another game that has the same type of conflicts or poorly designed aspects and so that I can use the "downtime" after turning in the game, to tune it with other people's suggestions and opinions... (Not the MAGS turned in version, but just the game in general.)


Of course, this is definitely not for everyone.  And it's probably still best to do it in private, but I'm in favor of telling the game makers comments and critisim, and I'm also in favor of the game makers being able to request statistics (or at least rought statistics) on the voting so that they may have an idea of what's going on.  Though there hasn't been much, the little bit I've gotten has helped me a great deal. ^_^

[Travis Anthony]

I agree with ya Tijne.  One day I'd like to make a game for that one certain competition that just completely turns me on!   And if I did make one, I'd like to know the total of votes and the tally of who even voted for my entry.  As it would be nice to know.  I wouldn't mind either way if it were a public or private announcement.

I mean... why the heck are people downloading the games during the voting period.... but still -not- voting?

I think I have only voted once for a MAGS competition, sorry!  I've played quite a few MAGS games, but most of them were from different competitions.  That's the problem.  Sometimes I'd play only one game from a month and not feel like playing the other entries.  I might even download them and not EVER run them.  That could explain your download counter VS total votes issue.
But what is it?  Usually less than a week to play the games and vote?  Sometimes I'm busy.  I can't get around to playing them all all the time!  So I don't vote.  If I did like the game I played or found a bug, I do like to message the entry owner to let them know.

MAGS are good fun.  Sometimes its amazing of what someone can spit out in less than a month.
But either way of how the voting thing goes, I'm still going to check out the MAGS every month and play as many as I can (or want to).  And try to vote whenever possible

[Leon]

I agree with the fact that you have to play the games in a very short amount of time. Even for someone like me, who's playing an average of 2 games a day, I have sometimes trouble to finish the game in time (but so has the game maker). Especially if they're getting longer and longer and do not include a walkthrough it can take a while. Not that a walkthrough should be included, it would only spoil the puzzles.

So, to feed  the discussion some more, maybe shortening  the creation period to 20 days, giving 5 days to play (which I think is short already) and the rest of the time to vote and create new rules? Disadvantage may be that less games will be entered if you see how little games now enter and see how many people say they won't make it in time. Maybe extending the time to 45 days of creation, 10 days of playing and 5 days of voting and creasing a new ruleset and make it a two-monthly competition to give more people a chance to enter because in two months they can find a bit more time to make something and others have more time to play.

That will attract people who now say they won't have enough time to enter or find the pressure too big to make it in 25 days. These are just thoughts maybe should this discussion be separated from the competition itself. For now, let's leave things like they are. I'll keep from commenting before voting to make it all as fair as possible and will give my arguments afterwards.

[Radiant]

I'm not sure if I can make such a game this month, though,

Probably not, actually.

[Brad Newsom]

Damn it. Its crunch time at work. So I won't have any time at all for my entry.

[Dualnames]

One Dollar, really nice thoughts there, I agree totally with you. I'm not locking the topic after the MAGS is over and it's not in my duties anyway (can;t lock it without asking a moderator to). Perhaps that's the best way to go. On my mags i got a lot of comments even before the voting had started and I really appreciated it and found it really good. Comments actually here before the voting make people read em and vote or play the games, that otherwise they wouldn't. Example : One makes a game, Vince says its the best of his life. Who wouldn't play it or try it after that?

[Jared]

Yeah, my game's almost certainly going to be late by a couple of days, but I'm going to make sure it is released.

[tzachs]

I made it!!

Ok, here is my game, based on a book I am now writing. Basically  I plan to make a game about each chapter of the book...
You will be able to read the first chapter of the book after completing the game. You can get the game here:
The Secret Plan 1- Running to stand still

Enjoy!

[Dualnames]

Yeah, my game's almost certainly going to be late by a couple of days, but I'm going to make sure it is released.

For the MAGS I hope..or you'll just release it as a game..?

I made it!!

Ok, here is my game, based on a book I am now writing. Basically  I plan to make a game about each chapter of the book...

You will be able to read the first chapter of the book after completing the game. You can get the game here:
The Secret Plan 1- Running to stand still

Enjoy!

Great, it's a little biggie though..and after 10 downloads (unless I'm mistaken, it will be removed from rapidshare.com), you'll need to reupload them. Anyway, it's an entry, added to database, I've added a screenshot and perhaps you should post a screenshot too. Anyway, move move it guys!!

[Jared]

For the MAGS I hope..or you'll just release it as a game..?

Well, yeah, just by itself. I mean, I'm assuming if it's for download after the 26th then it can't enter...

[Dualnames]

For the MAGS I hope..or you'll just release it as a game..?

Well, yeah, just by itself. I mean, I'm assuming if it's for download after the 26th then it can't enter...

You have to post it here before it turns to 27th, if you CAN complete in 27th before it turns in 28th, I can extend the deadline to one day.

[Leon]

I'm one of the 10 who's downloading.... 
But hey.... 112Mb?  :o

[Dualnames]

I'm one of the 10 who's downloading.... 
But hey.... 112Mb?  :o

I said it. 8 to go. At least 8 accounted for.

[Leon]

@Tzachs:

I crashed the game when restarting from the menu:
Error: Unable to restart game (error:File not found).

[Dualnames]

If anyone wants an extension of a day of the deadline,to wrap up your game, do tell.

[Helme]

Here's my entry: 'Celtic Chaos: episode one - cold mead'

http://www.box.net/shared/gcksmnzhbi





The celtic chaos series was supposed to be a spin-off to my game 'Cold meat'.
Unfortunately it's not finished yet. The translation needs a bit more time than I expected.
But that's not a bad thing. You don't need to play 'Cold meat' before 'Cold mead', you just will miss some puns.

Whereas 'Cold Meat' takes place today and ancient celtic zombies raise from their graves, 'Celtic choas' takes place arround the year 500 B.C. in the lifetime of these celtic warriors.
In the first episode you play Nektom the strong, brave and ...erm... stupid miner.

The game uses the VerbCoin-Modul, so hold the left mouse-button to look or interact/talk and click the right mouse button to open the inventory/menu.

[tzachs]

I actually seen the message after I uploaded the file that said that it has 10 downloads max, but it also said that I can create a 'collectors' account for free which has unlimited downloads, and so I did it and moved the file to the account so I think it should be ok (if I understood correctly, it's possible I didn't since the help there was not too descriptive).
About the 100MBs,  I  was surprised about that too, probably related to having 65 rooms with hi-color...

Leon, thank you for your input, I will try to reproduce that when I'll have the time, which will be about a week from now, because i am actually abroad now on vacation... I actually was in a hurry to post the game in time before my flight, so it's possible I missed some stuff in my testing...
If you can give me some more details about the crash: can you not start the game at all? Or does it crash if you do a restart from within the game?

[Tijne]

If anyone wants an extension of a day of the deadline,to wrap up your game, do tell.

Hmm...

Well since I've already got another ~24ish hours from this post, I think should make it.
Sooo behind schedule. xD