MAGS December: "It's Me Again" (CLOSED)

[Atelier]

Topic: 'It's Me Again'

This month's guidelines were set by Duzz:

The topic is not limited, but the protagonist must meet their future self at some point in the game.

Ideas to help you:

• You give yourself advice on a tough upcoming decision.
• Your future self brings news.
• You won't tell yourself whether you hooked up with the woman of your dreams!


An old man carrying his grandson, coincidentally his younger self.
And a diagram of a dinoflagellate.

Incredible deja vu! I decided in October to repeat the really good theme we had so it wouldn't go to waste. Unfortunately it coincided with the Bake Sale and everybody was too drunk on milk and cookies. And almost as if I could tell the future, here it is again! You all had two months to get ready so there's no excuses So let's end the year with an awesome round of MAGS. Yay!

And don't forget... this is your last chance to be an entrant in Maggies 2011! I'll be holding it much earlier next year in January (not March like last time). So you could be the next initiate into the exclusive Order of the Maggot.



What is MAGS?

MAGS is a monthly competition for all amateur adventure game makers. The idea is to create a game in under a month, following the rules set by the previous winner. It aims to help you work to a deadline, improve your skills, or provide a kick-start into making adventure games. Regardless of skill, MAGS is for everyone. Voting is based on "favorite" games, and not the most artistic, or the best coded. If you have bad art skills, use it as a chance to do some graphic work. If you're sub-standard at coding, use it as a chance to give scripting a go. Ultimately, people will vote for the most enjoyable entry.

You may get help for the competition, although you must end up doing something yourself. You should however be warned that it proves difficult to organize a big team within thirty days. You are not allowed to use material already created before this competition. Your game must be completely new! Music and sound is an exception; you can use free material that is available to the public, if you wish. Modules and templates are also allowed. Please do not enter the competition with a rushed entry (a game created last minute). Sure, you can make a game and rush it - but don't do this just to win by default.

Entering MAGS is simple. First, conceptualise your game following the month's criteria (see top). Second, create your game fueled only by coffee. Third, finally, and most importantly, post your game here, including:

✓ A working download link.
✓ The title of your game.
✓ A suitable screenshot.

At the end of the month, the all-important voting will begin! This period usually lasts fifteen days. Should you win, along with announcing the next month's rules, your name and game will be immortalised in the MAGS Archive. Yet hopefully, at the end of the month, the accomplishment of finishing a game will be your greatest prize. For more information please visit the Official MAGS website.

[Ghost]

OMG it's last month's MAGS... from THE FUTURE!

[Ponch]

I have the strangest feeling of deja vu. 

[Radiant]

I have the strangest feeling of deja vu. 

[Atelier]

I'll take that as three entries already?

[Ghost]

Yeah, well, you see, I just DECIDED to make an entry. I hope my future self will make it (plus a time machine), and then post it here. Time will tell, again and again and again.  
If time allows I'm in. I have a cool little idea.

[edit]
Make that a 50/50% maybe yes...

[Radiant]

I'll take that as three entries already?

'fraid not, I've got no time for this in December.

[Wyz]

I was about to start working on a game when my future self pop-up all of the sudden and told me to stop working on it for the good of humanity; so I did.

[Ponch]

December Ponch was hoping to make another MAGS game, but he just doesn't have the time this month. However, maybe January Ponch will be able to deliver a game... through time!!

[Atelier]

Nice sprite Ghost. Anybody else interested? C'monnnnn!

[Ponch]

Nice sprite Ghost. Anybody else interested? C'monnnnn!

Oh fine. If you're gonna pout, I'll make a MAGS game for you and leave it under your Christmas tree. 

[Radiant]

I have a meta question... I note that the previous MAGS had only a few more voters than participants. So perhaps we should advertise the contest to get more people involved in playing the games and choosing the best one? More visibility would be nice.

[Atelier]

I have a meta question... I note that the previous MAGS had only a few more voters than participants. So perhaps we should advertise the contest to get more people involved in playing the games and choosing the best one? More visibility would be nice.

This is a good suggestion.

But last round wasn't an average month, because the vote was called twice, so there's a possibility that some people (non-entrants) didn't re-vote. Usually for a round with three entries there's about 10-12 votes which isn't too bad. In August for example, there were 13 votes for 3 games, 7 for 2 in June, and 10 for 5 last month. I think when it gets to the stage were number of entries equals number of votes, that's more cause for concern.

Plus, the number of votes is reflective of theme. It was a rather esoteric month and not everybody would enjoy playing OSD games if they're not in the loop, and consequently not as many people voted.

Another factor which affects stats is whether people vote for themselves more than once (not likely I would hope). In Maggies 2010 for example somebody should have won by about twenty votes, but when I analysed it they all came from the same locality so I disqualified them, the evidence of cheating was conclusive. And sometimes anomalies can arise, like that time mode got featured on a gaming blog and got hundreds of votes

So apart from it being a non-representative month I do agree about more visibility for MAGS:

• If/when the new website goes live the MAGS pages could emigrate there, and this would boost awareness. I know magintz (?) created the original website so he would have to be consulted beforehand. For all intents and purposes there is nothing wrong with the website atm - but apart from me adding the guidelines and things, does anybody honestly visit it? I'm under the impression that people get the guidelines straight from the C&A forum and only visit it to vote. It would be a sensible move to absorb the MAGS pages into the main website. I believe they are based on the same server anyway.
• Another idea would be to add a category under the AGS Awards for Best MAGS Game. This is basically Maggies just sharing (or piggybacking) the gravity and attention of a more prestigious ceremony.

There are quite a few questions to be answered to recognise why people don't vote/enter, and if we can address these then hopefully the competition will gain a lot more interest. But the situation isn't particularly critical... I think MAGS will last as long as the AGS community here does; 24% of all games on the database are MAGS games. Bear in mind that some of the database is just half-assed 'games' like APP-Pack and the real percentage would be much higher

Tldr: I'll make a questionnaire to get info on who votes, how often, who enters, why, etc, then we can go from there.

[Tabata]

...So perhaps we should advertise the contest to get more people involved in playing the games and choosing the best one? More visibility would be nice.

                             

Something simple like a headline when entering the AGS-Forum might also help a bit to remind the members.  :

There is enough room in the banner (between the montage of game-pics and the AGS-Name for example) and it would be only for a week or so every month.

The MAGS-games of [name of month] are waiting for you to be played and voted!
... to be found here [link to „normal“ page or thread]

[Sane Co.]

That would be a good idea, but i think that something else we could do is have MAGS voting integrated with the AGS profile. So when you log on a message apears saying that you have yet to vote on a MAGS game. Another thing to increase voting would be to make a point system where if you vote you gain points, and if you don't you lose them. But one would have to have a way to make everyone play before they voted. As for adding more entries, we have to create more awareness, I didn't even know what a MAGS game was until a week ago, but I'm planning on making some MAGS games next year.

[Atelier]

I guess there's a fine line between encouraging people to vote and forcing people to vote. Forfeiting points just by not voting isn't a good idea, as people don't have to even go into the C&A forums if they don't want to.

In fact, for the biggest competition, MAGS is quite tucked away here. The best way to increase visibility (on the forums) is to have a MAGS sub-forum. This would also serve to hold the previous competitions in chronological order, with stickied rules and Hall of Fame, much like in the C&A. This would separate MAGS from the other competitions and increase visibility and ease of access for participants, and most importantly potential participants. I might also suggest this would officialise the competition by giving it its own designated space. Sane, would you have heard of MAGS much sooner if such a thing had existed?

Now I know such a thing is unlikely to happen, particularly since there have long been proponents for a AGS Development sub-forum, which is demonstrably more important. But it can't be too hard to implement and in the long run I think it would definitely pay off.

I also promised a questionnaire on this and I will soon deliver! Even if it did take a while

[Sane Co.]

Yeah, by having a MAGS subforum I would have known what MAGS was. But most AGSers have heard of MAGS, they just don't know what it is and if they search it on google they are never going to find it, so I do agree that having a MAGS forum would increase visibility.

[cat]

It would help if the official page was updated on a regular basis  :

Besides, many people might not be interested in MAGS or simply don't have time for it. Participating or voting in a SpriteJam or BackgroundBlitz is much easier.

[Sane Co.]

True, cat, but increasing awareness would actually increase the number of participants thus making it more fun for everybody, and even if there are few entries then there will be more voters and that's good too.

[Radiant]

A simple link in a visibile place should do a lot to increase awareness. A points system for voting is just overly complicated.

[Gilbert]

Yeah. More awareness is good, but I don't think we need such a complicated system, and IMO it can even lead to annoyance. My reasonings (I'm at work at the moment and I haven't really read other people's comments, so similar things might have been said or taken care of):
1. Every activity in this forum is just kind of a hobby and is free to participate, and (in case of competitions with voting involved) there should not be any pressure for anyone to choose to vote. Just participate and vote if you really want to.
2. Sometimes people are aware of the activities but they just choose not to participate or vote for good enough reasons. Take me as an example. Very obviously I am well aware of the activities, but I don't have much free time at the moment, so I usually just download all the released AGS games (including MAGS games) without actually playing them. I only sparsely enter some of the smaller activities when I am interested and so I intentionally don't vote in any of the MAGS sessions. If there are a lot of visible reminders for me to do this and to do that it is simply an annoyance to me, rather than anything good.
3. Doing such a points system would pretty much evolve into an achievement system, so you will 'get a trophy by playing x games', 'get xxx useless points in rating xx games' and 'be called an active voter by casting a vote in xxx MAGS sessions'. This works in some of the much larger gaming sites or gaming services, but IMO this will not work here, considering the fact that our members are ones who have more specific interests and form a much smaller community, and the majority of which isn't even that active enough to make an achievement system successful.

So, like some people have mentioned, IMO a more visible link is enough already.

[arj0n]

Why not a clickable MAGS banner next to the Games banner or would that be too complicated cause the link would need to be changed roughly every month?

[Ponch]

Nice sprite Ghost. Anybody else interested? C'monnnnn!

Oh fine. If you're gonna pout, I'll make a MAGS game for you and leave it under your Christmas tree.  

Sadly, this turned out to be a lie. I have 2/3 of a game, but there's only five hours left until midnight and I'm going to a friend's house to ring in the new year. Sorry. I gave it my best shot, but with the holidays, the bake sale, and everything, I just ran out of time.

May I suggest we revisit this theme once more. "Third time's a charm" and all that. 

[Ghost]

Ya, my future self just told me it has become my past self without even getting a stab at a good game. This theme is cursed...

[Ponch]

Ya, my future self just told me it has become my past self without even getting a stab at a good game. This theme is cursed...

Then we must break the curse... By having this theme again! 

[Icey]

wait I got a game!!!

http://www.mediafire.com/?h6jz1j1j1i107mb

[Atelier]

Yeah I agree this theme is cursed, even though it's so awesome. I don't think it was a good idea of mine to run it again, but maybe we might all meet it again in 2012 (providing some unforeseen crisis happens when we have no guidelines, which incidentally is what's happening right now)

If nobody can enter within 1 day, icey wins and becomes one of the illustrious grand-slam winners, with two wins in a row! Also icey what is your entry actually called?

I've been promising a questionnaire on MAGS for ages and will try my hardest to post it to gen gen. There have been some exciting and eventually palpable developments regarding MAGS' 2012 "renaissance", which I may or may not be required to keep secret (No seriously, I have no idea whether it's hush-hush ).

We've also got Maggies '11 sometime in the next couple of weeks so have a good year and party on.

[Ponch]

I'd need at least a week to finish my game. So unless Ghost can swoop in, it looks like Icey's done it again. Congrats, Icey. 

[Icey]

My Mags is a OSD game called 2 Dennis, 1 bug.

And hopefully a future thanks ponch. btw, if I win this would I be the first in AGS to win MAGS 3x in a row?

[Ghost]

So unless Ghost can swoop in, it looks like Icey's done it again. Congrats, Icey. 

I can swoop in, and even swoop on, it's the "delivering a game" where I'm bound to fail. So yeah, Icey rocks this one.

[Icey]

Cool, I'm on a killing spree!!! jk, Thanks guys. See you in the next MAGS.

[Radiant]

http://www.mediafire.com/?h6jz1j1j1i107mb

The link is broken. I get a 20-byte empty archive instead.

[spud]

Im a bit confused does new mags start on the first day of the month or the second week. Im quite eager to enter after my interest was reignited after playing the Ben Jordan series on PsP over xmas.

I checked the mags site but it still says november 2011

Sorry if this is a silly question i havent been active since 2004

[Atelier]

Sorry about that spud (and welcome back), I have loads of exams next week so I don't have much free time

The new topic is here: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=45081.0

It's a great theme, I look forward to everybody's entries

I also declare icey the winner of December! And unfortunately icey, you have only won twice in a row, making you a bare minimum grand-slammer

[Icey]

right right. I won be default sadly the other time... but isn't it the same thing here?

Also if it is then that mean I won once, by default 2x, going...

nvm I get it now :]

[Kastchey]

I uh.. don't mean to start any fires here or become one of the Official Icey Bashers, but it bothers me a bit. Is a 15 seconds long cutscene really enough to win MAGS, even by default? I downloaded it from Icey's profile since the link he provided here is indeed broken, but the proper archive contained some open source material sewed together into a short dialogue cutscene, and that's it. Unless Icey had confused zip archives and posted an early version by mistake, his entry wasn't even a game and made a textbook example of breaking the "no rushed entries" rule.

[Icey]

Wait there was supposed to be this part where after the talking you could move around and if u step on the bug then there would be this big "explosion of the planet" cause OSD came back and changed the future. I could have sworn that I complied that into the game. But I think I was sorta rushing to compile it together and stuff cause my PC had shut off so I didn't know that got cut out of the game.

[Khris]

Even if that isn't a lie (and I strongly suspect it is), that's still a rushed non-entry.

Where's the download link to your actual entry? You have had more than enough time to fix a bad upload (and prove that you really had more than what's up on mediafire right now).

You didn't win this and don't get me started about your transparent lying.

[Radiant]

I'm not accusing anyone, but can I please see this entry so that I can form an opinion on it? So far all I've seen is one screenshot and one empty 20-byte zipfile.

(because if this was a joke, I did that years ago... )

[Icey]

Here is the link. http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=detail&id=1514

I am telling the truth and I will fix everything up after the bake sale cause I still have to get the source together for Ponch.

I don't rush to make games cause I can make a game like OSD: Last Boss or OSD: sorta 99% famous in a day. I sorta ran out of OSD ideas but the thing is last time I checked they are all just joke games and from the start they were never really men't to be long anyways. Ponch and I are the only ones to make at least 1 OSD game that can be played for more than an hour.

Now I am not bragging and I am not trying to start any trouble here, Just stating my opinion.

[Khris]

This is still precisely the non-game that Kastchey mentioned almost 13 hours ago, way before you said something about a missing part, so it seems this is indeed all you ever had.
So it looks like you didn't lie, you simply didn't realize that Kastchey was talking about your complete MAGS entry when he wrote "15 seconds long cutscene", not a broken, shorter version.
Oh wait, where's the interactive part and the explosion? Still not online, liar.

What is online is bad even for an hourgame and in no way deserving of a MAGS win, especially not if it's the only entry and was shat out in a few hours and posted after the deadline.

You solely did this to masturbate to a few MAGS wins in a row. It's pathetic.

[Icey]

What are you talking about! Will you stop coming a me sideways about every single little thing. The last time you did that was when I maid the OSD "HD" remake. I can't remember everything you complained about but what I do remember was you talking about the font. Like come on man.

Why can't we just, I don't know get along?

I told you already [YOU] That I would fix it back up after the BS now come on. I don't care about wins as I just wanted to see a OSD and PMQ themed MAGS and that's that. If you truly wan't to get back at me then go enter the current MAGS and win. I already said I wasn't going to enter and I would help those who planned on entering. I will help you with your MAGS and when you win you can gloat and say what ever you want to me but until then I don't care anymore like real talk

[Ponch]

Icey, the link you posted was an empty file. I'm sorry, but that's not a game. That's an empty file.

No matter what you may have meant to upload, an actual game wasn't available at the time MAGS closed.

I wanted to get my MAGS game in too, but I would have had to disable so much of it to make the deadline that it wouldn't have been stable and thus not really a playable game. I couldn't release a buggy pile of poop in good conscience just snap up an easy win -- and when I posted that I was dropping out of MAGS, no one else had posted a game, so I could have just dumped my unfinished game on the forums and tried to win by default.

But I didn't do that. Because it would have been wrong of me to do so.

I know you wanted to keep your winning streak going (three in a row is very impressive ), but you didn't actually release a game before the deadline hit. Whatever you may have on your hard drive now, it doesn't count. My game is almost done, and probably will be ready to play by next weekend. But that doesn't do me any good now, does it?  This MAGS is over, and my game wasn't ready in time. I put a LOT of work into it, but I just couldn't get it finished. With the bake sale, the holidays, and everything else, I just couldn't make it happen, you know?

I'm of the opinion that Atelier should mark this MAGS as one of those unfortunate months where there weren't any completed games submitted. It's sad, but that just happens sometimes.

There are plenty of other MAGS in the future, Icey. You'll have many more opportunities to add more marks to your "Win" column. But this time around, it just wasn't in the cards. Next time, double check the file before you upload it. 

That's my two cents, anyway. It's Atelier's competition. It's his decision.

[Icey]

I haven't finish reading all of what you said but I don't understand how Ghost managed to get the game but you guys can't. I know I uploaded it cause I just reuploaded it cause radiant said it was broken first.

Ok here is what I will do. Cause in a sense after reading that I sorta feel like I just entered to win but a games a game no matter what's the length.

I would like to have this one run again for feb and I will enter that one with a better game. Also I hope Atelier will let you guys finish up your guys and enter it cause it seems like the right thing to do.

[Ponch]

Well, if Ghost managed to get a file that had an actual game in it, then I retract much of what I posted earlier. The file I got was a big bag of electronic air, but I guess we can blame that on the interwebs. 

[Icey]

Thrust me, I know the game was short but I swear I uploaded it and checked the achieve twice.

[Radiant]

I'm afraid I agree that this doesn't count.

First, the top post states "You are not allowed to use material already created before this competition. Your game must be completely new!" and yet both the background and the OSD sprite in the screenshot are older material. The recent OSD MAGS was an explicit exception to this rule, but in general the point of MAGS is to create new games with new art.

And second, the top post also states "Please do not enter the competition with a rushed entry (a game created last minute)." And that is clearly what you did. Like you said, you can create an OSD game in one day, but we have Hour Games and OROW for games made that quickly. For MAGS, you have one month; so if you did it all in the last day, that is precisely what the first post says not to do. That you didn't have time to test whether your game was working properly (and instead ends after 25 seconds of non-interactive dialogue) only underlines that it was rushed.

So I think you should withdraw this. You've won MAGS before with a quality entry; we know you can do better, and an entry like this just looks badly for both you and MAGS in general. Please try again next month with another quality entry that we'd love to play.

[Ghost]

I didn't get the game and never said so. I said I could sweep in and out without dropping a game, and THOUGHT there would be an Icey game to claim default win. Sorry if that got misunderstood. I didn't bother to download right then bercause a default win is a default win, and I was pretty busy at the time.

I find the case hard to judge because I haven't yet even downloaded your entry, Icey. But- and please do not take this as bashing, I hope we are past that point- technically your game is invalid. It uses premade material. Last month Ponch explicitely stated that he allows that, but the usualy rule is "original content for a MAGS". Since I haven't played the entry yet I can't judge on the quality, so I will not touch that issue.
Even if we say it is a fully playable (albeit short) game, the next issue is time of delivery, which can't be checked: Was the first upload, which was delivered shortly before MAGS end, valid? Or the next one, clearly past the deadline? Impossible to trace back.

I also see Khris' point when he calls this a rushed entry because it was deleivered so close to the deadline with such a small amount of gameplay (again, I can only judge from what has been said here). We all know it's simple to slam together a short game, but when there is a whole month available, it feels like a "grab for an easy win" to shove in a shortie just before the host calls MAGS closed. That's not nitpicking or dissing, it's making an educated guess  

I'd say see it as a game. You made it and it is a game in your portolio, MAGS win or not.

[Atelier]

wait I got a game!!!

It seemed to me that an announcement as abrupt as this, coupled with not even giving the title of the game, was just entering to win by default. Furthermore you did not post in this thread during any of the days in December to show interest in the round, which is what the majority of people do. On top of that your subsequent post asks nonchalantly whether you would be the first Triple Grand-Slammer. And without even playing the game, I could see you were snatching glory from a dwindling thread, irrespective of the quality of the entry. (I haven't even played the game so my comments are only concerning your manner of entering).

I also said I would never run this topic again but it was still a backup topic, in case somebody didn't get guidelines in on time or went AWOL. So this will not be appearing in February.

I did say that icey was the winner on the condition that nobody entered within a day, and nobody did (of course Ghost and Ponch couldn't finish on time), so yes, icey is the winner. Having said that, with a reputedly volatile download link and no actual gameplay, I can't willingly record this on the MAGS website. So for all intents and purposes, icey won this month, but it won't count towards his grand-slam total. But then it doesn't matter because icey told us he wasn't in it to win it.

I'm writing a 'MAGS Constitution', which is a watertight set of rules, not in concise thread-friendly form (like in the first post), but setting them out clearly in clauses. I just realised there's never been anything like that for MAGS. In which case, somebody has either broken the rules of MAGS or not, and such grey-area discussions won't be necessary. This is in response to entering after a deadline has passed and also to competing with a game started before the first of the month. I'll post it up by tonight I think, where it will be open for discussion

[Ponch]

I'm writing a 'MAGS Constitution'... it will be open for discussion

A fill-in-the-blank Constitution?!    Sweet biscuits! As a libertarian, this is my dream come true! Be sure to put something in there about my right to own a machine gun! 

[Radiant]

so yes, icey is the winner.

I object to that.

I opened Icey's game in a hex editor to see if I could find those alleged explosions and other content he mentioned. You know what I found? The game he submitted is actually The Last Boss, by Mr.Mog. It has the exact same rooms, text, and music; just a few lines of dialogue tacked on and two or three extra sprites.

You don't need a "MAGS constitution" to see what's wrong with that. The rules in the top post have always been perfectly clear.

[ZapZap]

xD Seems to me there's such a huge leap in maturity between these 16-year-olds...

[Ponch]

xD Seems to me there's such a huge leap in maturity between these 16-year-olds...

I did not know Atelier was 16 until you posted that and I checked his profile.  :o  I've always assumed Atelier was a crusty old dude -- possibly a retired member of the French Foreign Legion -- holed up in an isolated rickety shack somewhere in the English countryside. You know, like a slightly classier version of the Unibomber.  (MAGS was his manifesto) 8)

[Atelier]

I opened Icey's game in a hex editor to see if I could find those alleged explosions and other content he mentioned. You know what I found? The game he submitted is actually The Last Boss, by Mr.Mog. It has the exact same rooms, text, and music; just a few lines of dialogue tacked on and two or three extra sprites.

You don't need a "MAGS constitution" to see what's wrong with that. The rules in the top post have always been perfectly clear.

Ah I had no idea. So icey is definitely not a winner and should be ashamed. I can't think of any punishment other than not letting him compete for a fixed time/ever again.

I've always assumed Atelier was a crusty old dude

[Ponch]

I opened Icey's game in a hex editor ... It has the exact same rooms, text, and music; just a few lines of dialogue tacked on and two or three extra sprites.

I am saddened and shocked to learn this. Seriously.

I am even more saddeneded and shockeded (seriouslies) to learn that you can crack open AGS games and poke around inside them. All those hardcore pics of Dennis and Ray that I left in games for *ahem* my own personal use? Now everyone can see them?! Oh noes!! 

[Ghost]

The game he submitted is actually The Last Boss, by Mr.Mog. It has the exact same rooms, text, and music; just a few lines of dialogue tacked on and two or three extra sprites.

Eep. That is cheap, and shouldn't even allow resort to the "templates are okay" rule. Sad face.

Also, Atelier, thanks for offering those ruleset. I hate being a "do-by-the-book" guy but apparently something watertight is needed.

[miguel]

What a sad day this is. I've stood up for Icey a couple of times, I always thought of him as a determined young kid that could grow safely in this community. He was never the type of coming in, do his thing, insult everybody and leave. He kept coming with his never-ending saga and we could see him improve.

This was bad, and I think he has to understand that. Not realizing his mistake would be a step back on his growing up. We must not forget that he's only a kid.

Bad Icey, bad-bad Icey!

[Icey]

Ok I'm not reading all of this stuff but I got enough to comment. First off I not lying about what I add to the game. Next I already said I would like to see this one again in feb and I will fix the game up again soon.

But you wanna no something else, I don't like people "snoop" around in the game to try and find stuff. That's the whole point of the source cause I just feel like really violated but hey I don't care cause I didn't even know there was a program to do that. Hopefully I can recover some of my old lost stuff one day.

But get this right, I'm gonna fix up the game to day and not only add back said stuff but I will even through some extra stuff in there. I and if the rules state that I must use a different sprite then I will just edit it and throw a black pixel in his out line and call it a day.

hows about that! does that make everyone freaking happy. See you guys around 8:00ish.

Oh and Last Boss was actually maid on top of OSD [] [] [] [] []
But I suppose you guys knew that right?

[Ghost]

Ok I'm not reading all of this stuff

You should, though. There is a problem here and you can help to solve it. Being snappy now is uncalled for.

[Icey]

I ended up ready it anyways cause it wouldn't be right seeing how you guys are talking while I was school so therefor I like many other times I could not see and I could not respond to anyone.

Also I thought I had solved it last night but by saying I will fix up the game and basically if I still am the winner can this same one be ran for feb? Everyone was saying that they couldn't enter because of something(mainly the bakesale) and that is why I never planned to enter anyways but you I said ah what the hell I tried to come up with something simple before the end of the year seeing how it seem like me and mog both wasted our time because it took me all day to program a new working battle system cause I didn't want to release some half assed game and have him take the blame for it(even though it's his game.) But even though I got it in and said it was coming it still never maid it into the MAGS.

[Atelier]

Icey this is the third time and last time I'll say it: this theme won't be appearing in February because I'm not running it again.

Radiant caught you out and now you're making up barely coherent excuses to cover your barely coherent cheating. Why would you even want to cheat on MAGS? I can't understand why anybody would go to such an effort (but ironically it was your lack of effort that caused this) to corrupt something which is solely intended for enjoyment and the satisfaction of completing a game, not joking about being on a metaphorical 'killing-spree' and harvesting grand-slams to boost your forum ego. So the only award you're getting out of this whole shenanigan is the Worst Compulsive Liar on Earth.

I don't think you should compete for a while, because it's likely you will ruin the competition for other people, and people would rightly get irked if I allowed you to continue like this. I don't think there's much else to say.

[ZapZap]

Maybe "Lying" should be February's theme 

Ideas to help you:

• A competitor cheats to win a prize
• A pathological liar makes a mess and has to win back people's trust
• You discover someone's lie so you start planning a suitable punishment

[Atelier]

Hahaha that's too funny

[Icey]

Ok I didn't see you say that and I don't care about wins if you heard me say that before. I already said that I wasn't going to enter cause not only am I busy but I mean I already got to see the two mags I wanted to see and I don't think I want to enter again cause the time is to much to worry about.

And stop calling me a liar. I don't make excuses, I only comment on what people say.

For example: Just cause you see me running with a game system down the street and I just so happen to pass the game store doesn't mean I stole it.

If you ask me why I was running then I will tell you why but if you don't want to believe and you just so happen to go grab your investigation items and start looking around the store and find something that seems odd then try to use it against me then that's when I have to give a little more information. I don't have to tell you guys every single bit of information but just the main or big details.

I don't wanna boost my forum ego cause that was not what I intended to for but I also don't want to be the little kid in the corner who doesn't wan't to say anything cause just about everything he says ether makes someone upset or triggers a long argument.

But hey look at it this way, I'm gonna clean up that game and if someone doesn't like it then oh well.

And you guys wonder why get mad. I have nothing against no one here but stop the side remarks cause I asked before not to joke around with me like that.

[ddq]

You brought this on yourselves. Just learn to ignore him instead of giving him a pedestal to spread his immaturity.

[Icey]

Ooh sometimes there is just so much I can say to you but it would so make me look like a bad guy.

[Icey]

Here is the fixed version.

Future.rar - 3.64MB

[OneDollar]

I think the rules could benefit from being re-worked to make them clearer. To be honest I thought you were allowed to use any free materials (which is why I made my comments in the January thread to that effect) but I see it is actually limited to sounds, music, modules and templates. Looking back to the days when Klaus ran MAGS it seems even modules and templates weren't allowed. I think I got confused because I know (in the days before OSD :o) people have submitted RON games to MAGS. I tried to find out if those were special months like the recent OSD theme or if people had genuinely remade the characters during that month, but the MAGS site doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment.

Anyway, I'll probably comment more when you put up your rules. I was thinking something like the below, but feel free to ignore them.

1) The game must be made in AGS.
2) Your game must not contain anything created before the theme was given, with the following two exceptions:
- Your game may use pre-existing sounds and music, but they must be freely available to the public.
- Your game may use pre-existing modules and templates as long they are freely available and the vast majority of the game is new.
3) You may work in teams or on your own.
4) Do not enter with a game you made at the last minute or one that does not work. Put a reasonable amount of effort into your game.
5) To enter you must provide a working download link in this thread before the deadline is reached.

I'm quite tired, so I don't know how much sense they make.

[Dualnames]

The rules are just fine, provided someone cares to read them. I've entered some MAGS myself, and I hosted some as well, before passing the torch to Atelier (who despite being 16, is quite a member/asset of this community imho).

It should be of no importance, if the link isn't working, those things occur here and there.

I recall some cases of people, cheating for mags, usually with the voting system.

This is not cheating, though. This is just lying. Therefore because the entry has been proven to be an attempt at winning the competition and it's quite obvious it's rushed, and build upon another game, must not be accepted, in my opinion of course, after all, it's Atelier's choice.

The rules are there:

"You are not allowed to use material already created before this competition. Your game must be completely new! Music and sound is an exception; you can use free material that is available to the public, if you wish. Modules and templates are also allowed. Please do not enter the competition with a rushed entry (a game created last minute). Sure, you can make a game and rush it - but don't do this just to win by default."

Several MAGS games have used roger, as he is part of the template, but they have actually created "content".

I'm not sure if it's me or Atelier, but the whole thing with the modules and templates, was to help people, by using a standardized interface or for instance the snow rain plugin for snow/rain effects. 

[Icey]

Sure, you can make a game and rush it - but don't do this just to win by default."

Look will you stop doing that, I don't care about the wins and heck that game came so late I didn't even know I was going to win but I was no going to complain. Sure it's rushed, I'm not gonna lie. But what I said was true but the cut stuff. You can't accuse me of lying cause the game didn't save when my computer shut off. I told you I was in a rush to try to compile the game and zip it up just so I could post it in time.

[Kastchey]

Like Ponch pointed out already, there's nothing surprising in what Icey did. Even though the kid does irk me with his arrogance, I said that I didn't intend to write yet another Icey-bashing post and I meant it.

What really surprised me here, and what was the reason why I made my post, is that Atelier let this one through even though it was clearly breaking the basic MAGS rules and wasn't even downloadable from the main thread. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the host should be responsible for checking if the provided links are valid and for qualifying the submitted entries. If an entry goes by the rules, the host confirms it for voting or lets it win by default. If it doesn't, they deem it not qualified for the competition.
Any thoughts on this?

[Khris]

Gah.

There was a thread over at pixelation some time ago where some guy posted an RPG sprite template for critique. It didn't take long until somebody noticed the uncanny resemblance to a sprite on deviantart which turned out to be not just well-known but actually declared PD(!) by the author.
This was pointed out by a mod since ripping off other people's art is really, really frowned upon over there.
The OP went on to post about 30 lines of excuses, in flawless English, mentioning how he got the pretty peculiar pose from Mega-Man and whatnot and saying how he knows it looked bad but it's really his.
People were still giving him the benefit of the doubt when somebody noticed that the five colors that made up the eyes had the exact same RBG values as the original.

Up until half an hour ago, this used to be the most pathetic and incomprehensible attempt at lying I have seen so far in an internet forum.

The time-stamp of the new files is 2012/01/05, 4:48pm.
And this joker is even trying to convince us that he doesn't care about winning!
To top it off, he wants to enter the fixed version in February's MAGS, assuming that A) he can choose the theme since he won December's MAGS and B) we somehow miss that he's going to enter a (")game(") he started over a month before he's allowed to!

What the, I don't even. Wow.

[ddq]

I hope that's a verbose way of saying "I agree with ddq, let's ban icey".

[Icey]

Fool I had already fixed the game. Complain all you want but I did what I was suppose to do and I said what I was suppose to say. I am not mad at everyone but you know what someone doesn't always need to stir some shit up every freaking time >:[

I mean why should I even argue with half of you all cause a lot of you are adults and I know I'm not gonna win against you if there are more than one of you. So with that being said I'm done, I got games to make and other stuff to do. Any bit of my time wasted going back and forth about a little problem beyond me so I yeah through with it.

I'm not leaving but I'm sure not arguing. \('.')/ woooop!

[miguel]

Listen Icey, you shouldn't be mad with anyone here, but people here are mad with you! Do you realize that your credit has just ran out? Trust is something very hard to gather but very easy to loose.

I agree that there should be some kind of punishment for what you've done, but the most important thing here is for you to understand why people are mad at you. And members your age prove every day that it's not that adults are hard on you but its your immature behaviour that can't be accepted.

Everybody here has failed and will fail again, we're all humans and allowed to have a bad day but what makes us grow up is accepting that we have failed.

Be a good boy, apologize and stay calm for a while. Do your thing but always acknowledge that for every act (post) you do there will be consequences.

[Sane Co.]

I hope that's a verbose way of saying "I agree with ddq, let's ban icey".

No, we shouldn't ban Icey, he made a mistake, and he will (hopefully) learn from it. That's not to say he should get off for free, as when someone like miguel said there are consequenses. We should put this behind us and work on the January competition.

[Atelier]

I know it's hypocritical of me for posting up a set of rules when I've made a couple of mistakes in recent days. But I'm actually grateful to those who challenged me on them. This is just basically a more draconian-looking reiteration of the rules in the first post (which won't be changing), but I hope it's good for discussion and reference in future scenarios. 2bi is an addition to the ruleset which may stop people entering to win by default; while also providing some slack for people who have been wanting to participate all along but couldn't post it up on time. It's only a quick draft so feel free to scrutinise.


     1 All material in your entry must be entirely new, and made during the respective month, with exceptions for:

          a) audio. This includes music and sound effects, but does not extend to any spoken dialogue. The files used must be freely available to the public.
          b) templates. As above, they must be freely available to the public.
          c) any other resources deemed acceptable by the host during the respective month, such as during a special RoN/OSD round.

     2 You cannot enter or participate:

          a) with any game started before the first day of the respective month, without exception.
          b) with any game after the effective deadline of the respective month.
               i) The only exception is if the entrant has announced their participation at least five days prior to the effective deadline, and only if
               there is at least one other entrant to the competition.
          c) if your game was created with anything other than AGS.

     3 In the post announcing the game you wish to compete with, you must provide:

          a) the full title of your game.
          b) a tested and working download link.
               i) You must ensure your download link remains active until the voting session has been declared over.
          c) at least one suitable screenshot.
               i) The screenshot may be a title screen or in-game screenshot; providing the screenshot depicts your entry 'in-game'.
               ii) This requirement does not apply to surplus screenshots.

     4 You may edit your game:

          a) at any time before the voting session.
          b) only during the voting session to fix bugs.

     5 You may work alone or in a team, providing you make clear you worked as a team in the latter case.

     N.B: The effective deadline is the last day of the respective month or a modified date set by the host.

[Ponch]

"i" for Icey?

Also, these are fine rules. But nowhere in this document is there a statement of my right to bear arms. And I can't support any document that doesn't guarantee my right to defend myself against zombies and / or the 2012 apocalypse.  8)

[nihilyst]

          a) audio. This includes music and sound effects, but does not extend to any spoken dialogue. The files used must be freely available to the public.

Meaning that if I, say, have gathered a database of self-recorded sounds on my PC (which I have), I can't use them, but if they're from the net (which I have, too), I can, but I have to download them again, or what? I can't quite grasp that.

[Khris]

I hope that's a verbose way of saying "I agree with ddq, let's ban icey".

Sure is. But let's only ban him from MAGS for a few months, not from the forums. He's too much entertainment. And it's enough punishment that when he has finally grown up, he'll occasionally remember this and other incidents and cringe with embarrassment.

What I don't get about this is why people cheat in general. I get cheating in a test to get through school, but why cheat on something where there's no point to winning other than winning?
If you cheat on a board game or competition like this, it seems the motivation isn't winning but succeeding in cheating without getting caught. Because how can you enjoy winning if you didn't do it honestly?

[Ponch]

Sure is. But let's only ban him from MAGS for a few months, not from the forums.

I could support this. Icey needs to learn from his mistake. But I don't want him to go away. I actually kind of like Icey. His enthusiasm is appreciated and he's usually pretty funny. But this MAGS thing can't be allowed to slide without comment from the AGS Community.

And let's look on the bright side: Maybe all this attention will bring more people in on the next MAGS. 

[Kastchey]

I personally would appreciate if he channeled his enthusiasm elsewhere, but if he stays then let's at least make sure rules don't allow him to mess up the competition like that, and that the entries are being verified. Atelier's rule 2b sounds like a good start. I was also thinking about some kind of pre-deadline after which new entries are no longer accepted, eg. 7 days prior to the effective deadline. In other words, people interested in participating would have to announce their entries earlier than 7 days before the final deadline. This would give serious participants a full month to finish their games, but prevent any last minute entries.

And as for why people cheat in general even if there's nothing to gain other than winning, well..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e-peen

[Dualnames]

Rules are fine as they were. I can only begin to wonder, why this is probably the only time in the MAGS history, the rules are broken this way. I honestly agree with everything said by Khris, ddq, and miguel.

Ponch, you know how much I love you, but I don't think this is a time for a comic relief (not that we should take things very seriously), but there's no excuse for what Icey attempted. It was clearly done for winning by default. The entry was probably done within an hour, because I honestly recall every single time that Icey has made a game, he made sure to make a wip or show screenshots or talk about it.

Icey, it should be totally obvious that you brought this upon yourself, winning a MAGS against Radiant and Ponch and Ghost and whoever entered, was a damn fine thing to do, only you decided to take that achievement back by doing this.

I think banning will not achieve anything. You must first understand your mistakes yourself. That's all I have to say really, take it with a pinch of salt, I may be wrong.

[Icey]

Listen Icey, you shouldn't be mad with anyone here, but people here are mad with you! Do you realize that your credit has just ran out? Trust is something very hard to gather but very easy to loose.

I agree that there should be some kind of punishment for what you've done, but the most important thing here is for you to understand why people are mad at you. And members your age prove every day that it's not that adults are hard on you but its your immature behaviour that can't be accepted.

Everybody here has failed and will fail again, we're all humans and allowed to have a bad day but what makes us grow up is accepting that we have failed.

Be a good boy, apologize and stay calm for a while. Do your thing but always acknowledge that for every act (post) you do there will be consequences.

If all that was needed was an apology then I have know problem with that. I mean I thought I had already said sorry but I mean come on now, when you say were all human then you can't be surprised that I got a little upset.

I am sorry.
It's in bold just to make sure people see it and not over look it.

Also I really didn't read enough of the rules to make a MAGS games so I also wasn't aware of the "Rushed game " rule.

But now I know just about a bit more about the the whole MAGS competitions.

Also

@Ponch: Thanks and I am going to take up that offer on not competing for a while cause I really don't want to in the first place on will but if it makes people happy by hearing me say sure I just leave because you said or or, I'll just never come back cause you wan't me banned(which is not happening to I hope I didn't hype you up to much ddq) then fine so be it.

And if I do decided to make a game then I will announce it earlier but I will start when I'm ready just not the last day on a week day.

Also Dual's I do not make a topic for every game I made or am working on cause I would fill up half the page if I did that plus I know I would most likely get banned for that cause all my games would be at the top of the WIP board from over posting.

I personally would appreciate if he channeled his enthusiasm elsewhere, but if he stays then let's at least make sure rules don't allow him to mess up the competition like that, and that the entries are being verified. Atelier's rule 2b sounds like a good start. I was also thinking about some kind of pre-deadline after which new entries are no longer accepted, eg. 7 days prior to the effective deadline. In other words, people interested in participating would have to announce their entries earlier than 7 days before the final deadline. This would give serious participants a full month to finish their games, but prevent any last minute entries.

And as for why people cheat in general even if there's nothing to gain other than winning, well..
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=e-peen

So you say I did it so I could brag? I would like to be the first in a lot of things first online game AGS(Dual's beat me to that) first RPG in ags(A lot of people lied to me and said it couldn't be done so that's what kept me going in trying to make one cause deep down I knew with the right knowledge I could pull it off and thanks to Ben for making OSD cause that further told me it could be done so if anyone wan't to talk about lying then let's take it back 2 years ago.)

[Khris]

What we need is for you to grow up.

You entered a rushed non-game that took you an hour or so to create in a month long game-making competition shortly after the deadline because you realized you'd get a default win by doing so.

When this obnoxious, cheap and unworthy way of greedy trophy grubbing was pointed out, you did all you could, including lying, to get away with it. (To use your own example, we watched you come running out of the store, with an employee in tail waving a photo of you taking the console.)

This isn't something you simply apologize for, like bumping into someone on a busy street. It's a very serious character flaw and speaks volumes about the mindset and self-image of a person, and if you were a real life acquaintance, I'd not just avoid you like the plague but warn other people about you.
Also, I hate being lied to that transparently, because it's insulting my intelligence rather than my sense of trust.

Also I really didn't read enough of the rules to make a MAGS games so I also wasn't aware of the "Rushed game " rule.
But now I know just about a bit more about the the whole MAGS competitions.

Wow, you missed a rule? I can't believe it.
Also, this is a special situation because there weren't any other entries.  Even if posting rushed entries was allowed, doing it to score a default win is assholish behaviour. A good part of this conflict is about doing what's right without having a rule that says so. And you completely failing to realize this.

So you say I did it so I could brag?

Yup.
Need proof?

I would like to be the first in a lot of things first online game AGS(Dual's beat me to that) first RPG in ags

Also:

(A lot of people lied to me and said [an RPG] couldn't be done so that's what kept me going

This is a desperate attempt at shooting the liar accusation back at us and just makes you look even more pathetic. Nobody tried to deliberately fool you about what AGS is capable of, people simply wanted to get through your thick skull that YOU aren't capable of pulling of FINAL FANTASY XVI with AGS. A huge difference.

How about this: every time you're itching to visit the forums, go to http://notalwaysright.com instead.
Maybe it'll open your eyes a bit.

And for the record, the November win was only due to a voting fuck-up.

[Icey]

Well damn ok I said I didn't want the win

Also I am not trying to change the "target" by saying you or anyone lied to me but am only pointing out the fact that I am human we all lie. However in this topic I am not lying.

If you stop over looking the key parts to what I say then maybe you wouldn't feel like I am trying to challenge you but see that I'm trying to prove a point and comment on the same point that someone else said.

[Ghost]

This isn't going anywhere.

I think Atelier did a good job on the improved rules. I like the one about people announcing interest/progress  a week before the deadline; that was usually done anyway and now is a good "check" against rushed entries. It's also good to have, once again, spelled out what can be used in terms of premade material, and whoever sets the theme may now need to take a bit more care when include any "private rules"; meaning they will have to be spelt out precisely. It's nice to have that ruleset, and I hope it can be what it should be, something in the background, known but not towering.

I have always followed MAGS with interest and in a way MAGS got me back into active game making, I wouldn't like to see such a controversy again. While there is no F, U or N in it, MAGS spelled fun for me.

[Radiant]

I think it's a good idea to evaluate this or any ruleset every now and then, but to be honest I don't think making more formal rules is necessary here. Indeed, more formalities may turn new people away from MAGS because it looks less friendly. The current informal rules have worked well for years, I don't think it's necessary to change them over one or two incidents.

I think the Bogdan case was handled well by all involved, including him: he asked a question (can I enter with a game started earlier) and he got an answer (no), and then he withdrew from that MAGS. I don't see a problem here, and this is nothing the current rules couldn't handle.

In the case of Icey, well, if the issue is people not following the rules, then by definition adding more rules isn't going to help. The existing rules of "no rushed entries" and "no prior art" would have disqualified his entry anyway. This is a rather unusual situation, and if it ever happens again I'm sure Atelier or the community will point out an invalid entry.

So let's not go all formal here, this is not moot court

And for the record, the November win was only due to a voting fuck-up.

Please explain what you mean?

[Khris]

There were seven votes already when Ben entered his game so it was decided to reset the counter. Subsequently, icey won with 4 votes by a 2 vote margin.

[Atelier]

I think icey was winning by a bigger margin before I reset the counter anyway, it didn't seem to have any effect on the distribution of the votes (people must have voted again or something).

[Icey]

Khris you make it seem like I got all the votes. I couldn't see how I had got anyways until the end so stop talking about fuck-up's cause there still were late games and a missing game. I'm not not blaming anyone cause I already know everyone was trying to finish up there game before the end.

[Ghost]

I think icey was winning by a bigger margin before I reset the counter anyway, it didn't seem to have any effect on the distribution of the votes (people must have voted again or something).

The counter WAS reset? Dang. Then I have missed out to vote for myself!