MONSTERWORK SHOP - FINAL VERSION DUE TONIGHT (MONDAY)

[cat]

@waheela I like your first colored version, but there are some issues with the last one:

I like the change of the hands, they convey much more emotion. But the big tummy makes him look obese instead of big. There is also a lot of pillow shading going on, especially on the arms and belly. Take another look at your first colored version, although it's rough and not defined, you did a much better job there with shading.

@Ilyich Thanks for your comment! What do you mean by "it's not very defined and doesn't allow for a lot of extras"

[Ilyich]

cat, I just meant that it's a pretty loose, sketchy sketch that focuses more on the overall composition and motion, rather than on the design of individual elements. And the way it's structured, adding more elements and objects might start confusing things a bit. Having a loose, simple sketch is a good approach, really, but there is a chance you might end up getting lost in the blank parts of your canvas when painting straight from this. Then again, you might not - depends on how comfortable you are with straight on painting and detailing without the guiding "pencils".   

[cat]

Ah, thanks for elaborating! I'll keep that in mind.

[Kasander]

Phew...It took me ages to write!
You guys just turn a blind eye on all those grammar and language mistakes I've undoubtedly committed.

It's all written in a good spirit, so I hope nobody feels offended or anything. It's quite obvious that some of you are more experienced and some are less. I just wanted to shout out to the not-so-experienced ones: you folks are doing great and can only get better. But I suppose you already know it .

@ Cerno

To paint attacking dragon is an ambitious task so I can only praise that kind of attitute I like the tension and stark contrast between huge dragon and tiny wizard. I like the idea with the platform on which wizard stands, it's very expressive.

The most important thing that I wanted to suggest is what loominous already said: a 3/4  view for the composition. As it is now, the dragon appears to be flying from the side of the screen, while the wizard stands on a platform that points across the screen.

Since the platform is a triangle and it points towards dragon, it kind of 'attacks' the monster visually (and the wizard, as the one that stands on the platform is, I could say, in the 'attacking' team/party).

Let's have a look at this simplified drawings here (inspired by Frazetta, thanks to Andail's links).



When you'll have your dragon's pose set, you could try to visually empower/amplify his 'attacking stance' by trying to give the background behind it a shape that somehow resembles a triangle pointed at the wizard (you can do that by shaping the rocks or volcanos or... I'll just leave it to you). Pointed shapes in composition, when facing each other, create a feeling of tension. Well, that's something to consider for later.

Apart from boosting the dynamic/expression of the painting, the 'triangle versus triangle' or the 'triangle versus circle' could become a sort of archetypical clash, for example like between the fire-breathing-dragon and water-elemental-mage. It's just one of the possibilities. From my experience I know that adding some meaning (even if it's a kind of coloristic meaning) makes one's work more powerful. So that's another thing for you to consider.



Waheela had a great idea with posting the 'attacking eagle'. Just study it and try to put your dragon in similar pose. If it proves difficult, try to simplify it to basic figures and shapes like circles and align its limbs according to lines of perspective. I was never good at these skeleton-sketches which Misj do with such ease. He would certainly do a much better one! Anyway, I just wanted to point out that this dragon of yours seems to have some parts of a reptile and parts of a flying creature, like bat (well, one part at least - wings)... Perhaps you could find some other living creatures (or ex-creatures, like dinosaurs) who could model for your monster and could be simplified into basic shapes. 

One more thing to consider: As it is with miguel's monster, your dragon's upper limbs seems to me to be 'too human'. I think you could try to make them more reptile-like. Try looking for photographic references of dinosaurs, crocodiles, or perhaps some other animal that somehow resembles a dragon in this aspect and could lend your monster a pair of hands

EDIT: You could have a look at these guys:
http://www.floridajewel.com/animals/lizards.htm

@ Shane

Your Cthulhu painting seems to be the most ambitious painting of the workshop to me. So much has to happen there, so many elements you want to include. There are 3 parties in the composition and there are at least 3 major actions happening at the same time - while most of the illustrations visualize only one or two 'actions' (man fighting with monster, the prince saving the princess etc), and show one or two 'parties' (by 'party' here I mean at least 1 person or creature being on one side of the conflict or event). Even then people sometimes have trouble telling what are they about.

The monster's stance - one hand raised, the boat crushed in the other - speaks about hostility - which, seems to be aimed towards the petty mortals gathered on the cliff. The sharpshooter - with rifle aimed at the main cultist in the crowd - is obviously hostile towards them too. The problem is, at first glance I thought the sniper was monster's sidekick.  That's because he's on the same side of the screen the monster is. Only reading your description made things more obvious.

IMO, placing all of the three 'parties' in the straight perspective line could help to make things clearer. With 'sniper (A) in the foreground (on the left OR right side) , then the cultists (B) in the middle, then the monster (C) in the background (cornerwise to sniper).

--------- CCC --
------BBB------
--AAA----------

Getting rid of one of the 'parties' could prove an easier fix, but I like your ambitious  idea.

+++

I like the ambitious, epic scale of your painting. It really feels like a half of Lovecraft's short story squeezed into one picture

@ miguel

Your monster's arms seem a bit too human to me. I'd suggest transplanting a set of tyrannosaurus rex arms, I think something like that could fit well.   

You also *could* try to make the wall appear less monotonous, now it's pretty ordinary wall with brick by brick by brick. But it's not that much important imho. All of the viewers attention is directed at the monster, and I like it that way.
If you plan to chain the monster to the wall, you could try to make it appear desperate/resigned/depressed/frustrated/angry  - like any captured animal, including human, could feel... so the viewer could somehow relate to it. His face is big, so you should have no trouble with showing any emotions there    

+++

I like the huge, disproportional face. It's also nicely and accurately lit. I also like that the monster is captured, in starkly contrast with the all free-roaming monsters in this workshop.

@ Misj'

Your monster's wing is cropped in quite unfortunate way. A wing is an irregular shape, more complicated than any rectangles or circles, so it's not so easy to crop. In your monster's case cropping it further would jeopardize the sense of composition, the sense of having such fine-winged creature in your painting. That's why I'd rather suggest to move the monster to the right and save her from crippling That way the monster would also appear in one of the power points of the composition. By the 'power points' I mean the points of crossing lines in the 'rule of thirds' type composition (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds or here, with more examples: http://www.photo96.com/blog/?p=371).

Diggression
(@ for everyone!):
If there's someone in this worshop who's reading about the rule of thirds for the first time, then I suggest looking further than wiki. The above links show photo examples but the rule is really ages old, and was in use long before the advent of photography...as well as other commonly used composition principles, like golden ratio. Well, you could always consider reading a book on composition techniques (especially if there are paintings included as examples).
End of diggression, going back to Misj'!

The other problem is the one you've noticed yourself. The 'cuteness' of your creature, which results from using the cartoony style This is the monster's workshop, but she's not quite that 'monstrous'...at least not yet;) But it's debatable I suppose, perhaps other folks here would call her that.

+++

I like all of the characters' poses (expressive and well executed poses!) and the fact that your painting tells a story. It's also a clear, instantly readable story, which is a great plus.
     
@ dactylopus

(written BEFORE last updade - you're just too fast dactylopus:))
Another ambitious artist here. That's a difficult pose you've picked for your monster here.
You could find some decent photographic references for human limbs, look at them and try to apply to you painting. Then you can add some demon hair

I could also suggest two ways this composition could go: you could try to (drastically) lower point of view as if 'the camera' was behind humans back, and the human would find himself below the monster and between its spread legs. With the demon reaching out to grab human, its hand would be probably just as big as human itself. So that's one idea -it would boost the expression but you would have the monster at the most difficult angle to draw. And you'd probably have to cover monster's private parts with its reaching hand
Other idea: since the monster is gigantic, let's make it look even bigger. In order to do that, you could crop the picture by cutting out the parts of cavern around the demon. Then you would probably have to make human visible and closer to the monster by elevating him, placing on some rock platform or bridge or something. Now, this would make reaching for his meal much easier for the monster, I'm sure it would appreciate the effort;) 

+++

I like the monster's scale versus human, I like the fact you went the hard route and chose a dynamic pose for the demon.
EDIT (after your last update): I like it in color. Still you could use some human references for this guy.

@ cat

Can't tell much about it at this point;) 
I like the dynamism and the perspective lines which add even more expression. I wonder what you will make of it. Looking forward to see your monster's monstrosity

@ loominous

I like it a lot. Beautiful Rembrandt-style lighting and warm sepia tones. I wonder if/how you will broaden the palette and which way you'll go with it!

@ waheela

The distance between two hands seems too wide to me. It's a bit like we were looking at the scene through a camera with wide-angle lenses. I'd suggest showing more of the right hand by pushing it forward a bit, and placing left hand (with the card) up, in one of the power points of composition (see 'rule of thirds' above). That way you could also play with the card and even show us a picture which is on it (if it's tarot). Since it's fortune telling, maybe it's the one card the monster wouldn't want the fortune-teller to pick? Or the opposite... You know what I mean. It's up to you.

You could also try to make the monster lean forward towards the fortune-teller. It would shift monster's bodyweight to the one supporting hand and could potentially make an interesting pose and face expression (like: 'I don't believe in this tarot stuff but I'm gonna try it anyway' or 'if she lies about my past now, I'll have her for dinner').

+++

I like your idea very much. The use of first person point of view is quite uncommon in illustration. It remind me so much about Joe Dever's and various kinds of CYOA books that I was reading ages ago. Yeah...ubercool books which used to turn teenagers into heroes Maybe it would help more to search for them or at least google for illustrations. You could also play/google some FPP games like Skyrim in which you spend a lot of time looking at your character's hands

@ Nihilyst

At the beginning your sketches were very dark (almost unreadable) so I'm glad things are getting clearer now, and that the picture still retains that gloom & doom feel. Your idea of monster is very interesting and I'm looking forward to see more The thing I miss a bit is the focal point in the composition that would grab my attention. As of now it's very homogeneous, 'background-like' composition. Consider if you could and should break this uniformity by some flicker of light on one of those 'monstrovolcanos', or a change of texture, or, I don't know... Perhaps some small monster who would live off the humongous one?

@ Mordalles

I like how you've approached the 'construction' of this monster. The risk of crossing the turtle with insect paid off. I like its shape, its scale in comparison to small humans below. I'd really like to see it move, it would make a cool addition to your next game
Perhaps you could spread and bend monster's 'fingers' (at least in the front legs) so they would appear more flexible... This would increase creature's mobility and give him ability to grab things. They look a bit too much like tree branches now.

Anyway, this looks like a piece of good concept art to me. Bravo!

@ Andail

I hope this won't upset you too much

I must say I liked the fat monster from the previous sketch (floating1.png) more than the current, thinner one. It was looking more majestic, more 'B-47 flying fortress' type, while the new one is a kind of 'F-15 fighter' type. Maybe the new one doesn't seem deadly enough to me yet, I'm not sure. Or maybe it's just me and it's only a matter of personal preference.

In general, I was VERY impressed by the look of your old sketch and by its raw, kinetic power. It also seemed a cool and clever idea to have such a huge monster occupying so little space on the painting. IMO, your current sketch (as of Wednesday night CET) isn't as good. I really think you've nailed everything in the first one. The thing that I loved the most was that there were two pairs of eyes as the focal points of composition. One pair (cold white eyes) belonged to the monster in the distance, while the other (red back lights) belonged to the vehicle in the foreground. I'm not sure to what extent it was or wasn't intentional, but thanks to this 'eyes-to-eyes' analogy I've observed, I started to interpret your painting as an eternal clash: nature (here represented by an ages-old monster) versus civilization (represented by this new type of vehicle).

And now something about the new one, for a change What I like a lot about you current sketch is the fact that the monster appears from behind the building so there's no telling how humongous this really is, there's only a suggestion it's huge. I also like the dynamic perspective of the buildings and the bend. I'm really curious about which way you'll go with this.

I wish you could  go back to the 'no.1' later and finish it by just adding more details (that is, after you end with the current one) if you have the will and time, so we could compare them and see which one works better. Or maybe I'm wrong and you'll surpass that old one and make me forget about it. That's what I wish to you. 

@ Selmiak

I like the ambience of your painting. As you've said, you could add something or someone to the picture to make things a bit more dramatic. There's still some space left on that stone  

@ SookieSock

You've decided to give your monster human joints. This makes a wood-solid, ent-like creature appear less believable. The guy is basically a walking tree-trunk and... well, I just can't believe you can bend a tree like this, it'll snap! I think you could either make the monster (and his joints) more human, or more 'entish', more tree-like. You could also think about what to do with that black hole in the trunk. IMO, you should put your monster's weak point there (eyes or brains etc), so the whole situation with the archer aiming at it seems credible and convincing.
 
I love the amazon/archer on a horse. It's such a difficult pose. You surely know how to paint those beasts... Well done!

@ Snarky

I'll join the others in the choir: great choice of perspective (and one of the trickiest angles to draw).  You could push it even further and try to 'rotate' the floor clockwise or counter-clockwise so the floor line wouldn't be parallel to the border of the painting as it is now. This would make it more dynamic, but would probably require changing the composition from the centre-oriented (with monster in the centre of picture) to a 'rule-of-thirds' type (monster/monster's face in one of the power points of the composition). You could also try and put a fish-eye lens on it (if only for fun ). Even a cow looks somehow unsettling in a fish-eye: http://www.photoplusmag.com/files/2012/11/Photoshop-Elements-fish-eye-finish.jpg

-------------------------

That's all for now folks. It was quite draining and I'm a slow writer. I hope it won't be too out-of-date in the moment I post it because of newly uploaded sketches & monsters

Cheers and have fun with your monsters, everyone!

---last (?) EDIT (16.05 past 10 PM CET): I hear grammar police knocking at my door. I knew they were looking for me for a long time but I thought changing my identity would help... I was wrong. Well, it was nice having this monster workshop with youuuuuuuuuuuuu
---EDIT 2: Grammar police said I should edit digression (see above). This digression is like doing public works, it's for everyone, they said, all the public should benefit from this. So I've edited it. Who knows, maybe I'll serve shorter term now?

[nihilyst]

COMMENTS

Miguel:
You did a great job on the head. That's one scary monster, and I'm curious to see how you will proceed with it. But I don't really like the backdrop, having just a wall there is not too exciting.

Misj:
Great concept. She's kind of cute and dangerous at the same time. The clothes' designs are gorgeous, but I don't have a favorite yet. However, the location looks like it is not that huge. Wouldn't such big wings be hard to handle then?

dactylopus:
The most abominable snowman! I dig the head, and I'm curious to see the lighting setup. loominous has shown a great example.

cat:
That has the potential to be one frightening illustration. Covering parts of the dragon gives it mystery, letting him attack from above makes him dangerously inescapable. Your illustation screams "SURPRISE ATTACK!". Great!

loominous:
At first I was a bit disappointed that you've chosen to draw a character that -- for my taste -- resembled a human too closely. But the longer I look at him, the more do my bones chill. That long, covered up body only gives a sense of what might be hidden under it. Now he's creeping me out, and that's a good thing, I guess. As always, the lighting setup is superb.

ProgZmax:
I'm not too fond of the cliff's perspective. You manage to tell a story, which I like. I really like Ilyichs colour-paintover; it just fits.

waheela:
Now that's different. Playing card with a monster. Makes you wonder who the first person might be. The repositioning of the hands gives it a dramatic effect, like he has been tricked or something. I like the first colored sketch. The textures and speckles give him personality, although I'm not sure where this scene is taking place.

Mordalles:
That sketch is awesome, and the colours really add to it. Nothing more to say. I'm excited to seeing the progress.

Cerno:
Dramatic scene. The pose still looks kind of wrong to me, but I'm not the right one to give you feedback on that topic.

Andail:
The monster looming from above is a great concept, although I could imagine bringing it in the foreground, a bit like cat's illustration, with the monster already chasing the bike, crashing the edges of buildings as it races through the streets. Nevertheless, I also like how it is looking now, the glowing eyes saying something like "Gotcha!"

selmiak:
That monster looks kind of cute, I can't help it. It might be the mouth or the "what's up?" kind of face. Don't know if that's what you were aiming at.

SookieSock:
My favorite! That tree monster gives me the creeps; I could easily imagine wandering around, when suddenly this thing starts to move.
The shot you've chosen is very dynamic, a perfect action scene!

Snarky:
Creepy, although, as others have said, this might work best in pure black and white. In fact, I could even imagine this being the final illustration in a children's horror novel. I have absolutely no idea how you might proceed with this apart from pushing the detail level.

Kasander:
Great monster, and already with so many details! You're on a good track to having an awesome illustration. My advice: Just keep going!

TheeOhFour:
Interesting setting, great monster. But it looks like it's dancing Gangnam style or something. Can't put my finger on the problem, though.

------------

I'm not sure how to proceed with mine. What's a proven method? Taking the sketch, blowing it up to 4000px and using it as a guideline, sketching anew? Start from beginning, using it as a reference? I've never done that kind of workflow before. Any advice?

[ThreeOhFour]

Hello!

Miguel I really love how much fur you gave this guy, awesome idea. I really think some foreground objects would add an extra level of depth to your image, though.

Misj' I like how much action there is in the scene, and especially that our hero isn't the only focus there. I think it could use some furnishings - assorted objects other than just arches there, to help convey the setting better, though.

dactylopus Great use of scale vs the tiny character - however I think you should work on that little person's body language, to make them seem more like they're afraid/shocked.

Cat I love the use of lines to give a sense of perspective, that's a great idea. Have you thought about some foreground stuff to help frame the beast a bit better?

loominous Beautiful, I really like your sense of lighting. I'd like to see the window frames have consistent shapes, rather than the near one be interesting and the far one be straight - though no doubt you've thought of this.

Shane I pretty much covered yours in skype, but as we've discussed some more rocky features at the base of the cliff would look great.

Waheela One of my favourite designs, I really like this idea. I'd like the background object to have some stuff of more varied size though - have you thought about putting a tree or something behind those gravestones?

nihilyst Looks sensational, great sense of depth! The top edge of the crater is very smooth and even, though, it may look nice with a bit more character/variety there.

mordalles Awesome as usual. Really can't think of anything to pick on here.

Cerno I like how much action your scene has, but I think your mountains are all very low and flat. Some further height variation in that background would be lovely!

Andail Interesting idea, I like the science fiction vibe this gives off and the insectoid shape of his face. The city feels a little empty though, possibly because there are so few buildings. I'd like to see more city density behind the trees in the distance.

selmiak I like the attention to framing with the stalagthings, and the pose of the creature, but I think I'd like to see really strong, bold lighting in such a situation, and really focus on the creatures highlights and shadows to give his form depth.

Sookiesock Lovely active pose, particularly the horse and rider. The tree creature would look great with some softer materials added to it - leaves, moss, hanging vines, etc, to give a sense of age and roughness.

Snarky I liked your idea from the start. I'd really like to see some dress trailing behind, and perhaps a car/cart/building in the outside scene.

Kasander Genius monster design, great level of detail. The background lacks some character, though, and it'd look great if you added stuff beyond just vague organic shapes.

And for my progress:



I've started trying to work my thumbnail into an actual picture taking into account various crits (thanks!), particularly the creature's pose. I think his hands should be doing something... dunno. Also I killed one of my lightsources, because it was getting too crowded in there.

[selmiak]

opinions, critiques and other in order of appearance: (related to the first sketch posted in the thread)

miguel: The monster design is very interesting, a creepy face and a reptilian body, this give the chillz. the tail looks a bit short and is formed in a strange way. The arm on the right looks a bit thinner than the one on the left. For the technique, I wouldn't have drawn in that much detail in a pencil sketch as you just have double the work when painting it in whatever program you use for it, see stuff on mordalles' stuff.

Misj': Very nice comnposiion of the whole scene, Hard to find anything to criticize, so let me say the 4 legs irritate me a bit in the sense that I'm having a hard time imagining if they all grow out of the same hips or if the demon has a goat/horse likle body. And a crazy idea for improvement: maybe you find the time to make one (or all) of the windows from stained glass and have some really interesting colors and lightings in there... and you're crazy with ALL these clothing designs.

dactylopus: interesting perspective and you can already feel the raw movement of the monster coming at the viewer. Don't forget to give all the fingers these spikey nails. I'm quite interested in what environment you put the monster.

cat: There is a really nice dynamic in the movement of the waterdragon, but as I see things, he won't be breathing fire There is something not that fitting in the colorscheme in your sketches, seems to bright and high of contrast but it's onyl a sketch, so let's see where you take it.

loominous: very ambient atmosphere and great volumes in the sketch but the character doesn't seem that monsterish at all to me, but I'm still very interested in your progress on this piece.

ProgZmax: Cool concept you got there. make good use of the 3 stages of lighting with the lighhouse in the background, the fire and some other light for the sniper in the foreground. The giant lobster will be covered by chtulu, so maybe move this beast over to the right between the lighhouse and the fire. Also this needs lots of waves and lightning.

waheela: what an insane idea, a crocodile monster with some human appearance playing cards (probably cheating, the monster it is) on a graveyard. for the colored version light is coming diffusely from the front, maybe try to set the lightsource to the left side and light everything from the side. just try it for a quick sketch.

nihylist: this is a very threatening atmosphere without a really visible monster but you can already sense danger lurking inside these plant/creature cysts. Maybe don't have a background suggesting it is a crater but rather have some fading into endless misty distance. and maybe have some real tentacely monster come out of one of the crater cysts.

Mordalles: This is very cool looking and very detailed already but differently detailed than miguels so you are not doing so much redundant work when coloring and setting lighting. I really don't know what to criticize here or what to say except, rock on!

Cerno: The left side of the dragonwing looks a bit short and unthreatening compared to the other side. The legs seem to have one limb too much, except this is the unnatural monstery look you are going for, then flesh it out and make it look really disturbing I don't quite know what the circle in the topleft will become but I like beeing surprised... sometimes.

Andail: I love scifi so this setting already has me, cool perspective. Maybe some more houses and other cars withs lights on and traffic lights will be needed to give the scene more depth but this is just a sketch by now.

selmiak: great that you finally came around to write something about every piece, now kick your own ass and continue!

SookieSock: Great Shadow of the colossus meets lord of the rings vibe there, I just don't see this monster running or attacking with these feet, but they sure are fitting for the treemonster. the mountain background made me think that the scene sure would look awesome in a snowstorm.

Snarky: The perspective and the weird grin gives a nice creepy mood. Dunno if I would be more frightened to see this at nighttime with the fullmoon in his back or at noon fully lit from the sun on the back and casting a huge shadow.

Kasander: Really cool, like I said in the first thread already, just some minor lighting issues.

Ben: it's really small to tell much, but the atmosphere seems alright, don't get it to warm and comfy though, this is a spikey monster...


wohah, quite some entries here, now I can finally read other's opininons on others and see if my estimates and advices are somehow related. And draw some more. Or over the weekend...

[waheela]

FEEDBACK

@SookieSock
I really love your idea. It has a kind of morbid, fantasy aesthetic that really speaks to me. I also like your sweet monster design.

The only thing that's really taking me out of the piece right now is the horse. It's pretty nicely drawn, but the pose is unconvincing to me, and doesn't seem like something a horse would do in this situation. From what I've noticed about horses in general, I'm not sure one would jump over an object in motion. I think it would really benefit the picture to have the horse either galloping away from the monster or rearing up on its back legs in fear. That being said, I'm excited to see how your piece evolves over the coming weeks. I think you really have something here.


@Snarky
Of all the monster pictures, I think yours freaks me out the most. The thing I absolutely love about your piece is the camera angle (as the monster would be seen by a child or toddler). So great!
As far as critiques go, I think I want to wait until you've fleshed out the piece more. Definitely looking forward to seeing where you take this though.


@Kasander
You are a shading master. That's some freaky-ass @#$% you've got there. I've really really enjoyed watching your piece evolve over the past week.

To be honest, I don't think I really have any constructive criticism for you. Maybe the gritty texture on the face and raised arm is a little distracting, but I think all this will change once you add color. I'll hold back until you're a little further into the piece.


@ThreeOhFour
Absolutely LOVE your new thumbnail. Monster pose, color, A+! I love the blue/red color combo, and I'm really glad you changed the monster pose too. As someone else mentioned, it did look a little like someone in a monster suit.

I think if I were put on the spot to give you criticism though, it would be the dimensions of the image itself. Not too crazy about the square. It just feels a little weird to me, like part of the image was cut off.




RESPONSES TO FEEDBACK

@cat
Thanks for your thoughts. I understand what you're saying about the "pillow shading" thing, but if your light source is directly on a person/thing, wouldn't it appear that way to some degree? Here's kind of an example of what I'm talking about, although I didn't use this as a reference:



I will admit though that the way I have it now, the shading is too uniform without variation to be realistic, so I'll be fixing that more in the next draft. I also think it will look a lot less pillow-shading-ish once I've added texture and color variation to him. (Right now, I have a black-and-white shading layer on "multiply" above the monster's color layer.)

As for the obese thing, yeah, I agree. I think I'll change that too. While I was shading, it just kind of turned out that way, but I think I want to make him a tad more slimmer and muscular. Thanks again for your critique! It's definitely made me more mindful about the piece. I hope you'll chime in again once I get a little further with the picture.


@Kasander
Thanks for your thoughtful critique! Good stuff! I did notice that thing with the arms in my earlier sketches. Hopefully I've corrected that in my later drafts. Let me know if you still think it's an issue. I do like your idea though, I may revise the hands even further. I also like your idea of the monster leaning forward. I'm not sure I'll make the change, but I'll definitely keep it in mind.


@nihilyst
Thanks! I like the first color study too. I'll be incorporating more of the freckles and scaly textures later in my draft.


@ThreeOhFour
Thank you!!! I haven't really fleshed out the background yet, but you definitely have some good points/thoughts that I'll keep in mind when I do.


@selmiak
Interesting idea, selmiak. The reason I have the lighting coming from the front is because I wanted to try having the fortune teller's shadow fall on the table to give the fortune teller more presence (based on the feedback Misj' gave me). I might try out your idea too though, just to see what it looks like. Thanks!

[Cerno]

Thanks to everyone for their invaluable support and tips.
I had to organize it all and even the condensed version now fills two pages.

So first I tried to improve the wings. The initial imbalance was inherited from the reference image of a bat with its wings pretty much in the same pose, but I agree that this has to change.

Next I tried to do some thumbnails, very useful technique, by the way. Thanks loominous!



I like the general feel of them quite a lot

Next I tried to sketch a pose that incorporates some of the advice I got, mostly from Kasander and waheela
I moved the wizard to the lower edge of the screen and made the dragon more prominent. The legs, arms horns and snout now all point towards the wizard. I tried to hint at a triangle here.

Unfortunately I was not quite able to catch the presence of dragon from the thumbnails, maybe this stage needs another iteration.



Edit: Maybe a little more like this, now the wings underline the arrow-shape more and it becomes a little more dynamic:



@waheela: Thanks a lot for the eagle images, nice finds. I have some trouble adapting the pose since an eagle has no arms, while the dragon does. But I tried to get the wings somewhat similar and I plan to heavily reference the talons.

@loominous & Kasander: Unfortunately I won't have the time to redo the whole dragon, so I won't be going for the 3/4 perspective since I fear that I might not make it in the end. Really sorry, especially after the great mock-up, Kasander 

To every other helpful soul out there: You are not forgotten. All advice has been compiled into a neat list and will be commented on in due time

[Andail]

Thank you Loominous
   

    Miguel:
I think you might have worked too much adding texture and detail to your figure before putting him in a context. It may prove hard to make him fit in the picture retroactively. Still great job on the skin texture.
    Misj:
Cool idea, and the composition is looking promising. I wonder how well the pose will work when it comes to interacting with the other figures; right now it looks a bit stiff, almost like a statue.
    dactylopus:
Dramatic composition, very cartoonesque. It will be interesting to see the full background.
    cat:
I see you have started colouring the piece now, and while it is a dramatic perspective, I'm not sure how monster-like this creature will be. At the moment it looks like a baracuda. The problem with not including a human figure in the scene is that you lose the proportions a bit. This could basically be an inch-long kelp eating fish for all we know.

    loominous:
As always great lighting and masterful drawing. At the moment I'm not getting any monster-vibes at all - he's looking more like a stern uncle, just about to tell his nosy nephew to get the heck out of the library - but that might change.

    ProgZmax:
Hm, this is a tough scene. Lots of things going on, lots of angles and perspectives to keep track of. This might be a big darling for you to kill, but I would consider scrapping the foreground sniper, and bring the worshipers closer. I think just having them and the monster interact is enough action for one picture. But if you manage to pull it off it would be really cool.

    waheela:
This one is very original, and the most comical of the bunch. When the monster is centred like this, with very little else going on, it's important to make it interesting to look at. Right now it's a bit too plain dinosaur. This is basically a portrait - work more on an original monster design!

    nihilyst:
Tons of Giger-vibes here. Which is a good thing. Not much else to say atm

    mordalles: (mind the spelling, Loomie )
Easily one of the most promising illustrations so far. Great monster, lots of personality, both scary and full of character.

    Cerno:
Hm, this monster hasn't found a natural pose yet. There's something with his wings and posture not really adding up. I would experiment more with his pose before moving on to shading and texturing.

    selmiak:
Not scary, but a nice comical touch.

    SookieSock:
Good start, but I think you have to rearrange some elements in this picture. Both the monster and the horse archer are competing for the foremost percent of the picture. They're also basically - as far as I can see - turned the same way. Maybe move something back, into the picture, just to give them more room. Really nice colours so far.

    Snarky:
Hard to say what you can make of this at this point. As a b/w drawing it's really nice, but the composition and perspective, along with his featureless face, may prove hard to develop much further. Still full of personality, and quite scary, I should say.

    Kasander:
Scary indeed, but I'm missing something. This is too much Magic the gathering-portrait. I would like something more to look at.

    TheeOhFour:
I think you've stressed a bit so far, so I'm really looking forward to seeing what you can come up with given a bit more time.


Alright, here's my latest update.
Someone adviced me to go back to the earlier, less defined monster, so I did that. I even made it more featureless. The only thing I'm worrying about now is that this illustration won't be so much about monster design, but hey Also went back to a more straight perspective, and started working a bit on the people on the bike. They will take most of the remaining time to finish.

[Snarky]

Wow, lots of really kind feedback! I considered my entry an initial concept sketch (that's what the Week 1 deliverable was supposed to be, right?) to be iterated on, modified and developed further. My scribbles aren't really a "style" so much as an inability to get anything right with a single stroke; I was certainly envisioning shading, texture, color... like in a proper picture. Not sure I'll have time to work on it this week, though.

Let's see if I have anything useful to say to you all:

miguel: Cool monster design! It being a prisoner, I think you could push the pathos more, really impart a sense of suffering. Perhaps by adjusting the pose a bit to make it look more defeated. Maybe sores, scars... Also, make sure to actually shackle it to that chain!

misj': You've moved quite far from your initial references, though it still reflects the Greek mythology angle well. I guess I'm not entirely clear on how you see this monster, but your rendering is clearly very professional.

dactylopus: Yup, I think the sketch clearly captures the kind of monster you were going for. I wonder if its scale isn't a little too exaggerated for this type of design, though (I would expect a monster like this to be no more than two-three times the height of a person), and I'd like to see some more detail on the tunnel (particularly since your reference images for that were so good!).

cat: Love how this is looking, it really feels very underwatery. In order to set your monster design apart, I think you could experiment with interesting color patterns on the skin.

loominous: It's a great mood piece that sets the "dusty library" atmosphere I think you were going for, and I can see it as concept art for lighting a movie scene, for example. The monstrousness seems to be mainly in the design of the head, but I can't really make out the features properly from this sketch. Look forward to getting a better look once it's cleaned up!

ProgZmax: The drawing sets a credible B-movie, pulp-y scene, complete with man-in-rubber-suit monster. However, I think the composition is not entirely effective: having the monster and shooter aligned like that doesn't really create a sense of opposition or danger, and I don't think the meaning of the situation really "reads." Possibly too late at this point, but I think you would benefit from experimenting with some other layouts.

waheela: Love the specificity of what you're going for here! And the sketch depicts the literal description perfectly well. But it strikes me as a bit… mundane, maybe? Like this guy whose eyes we're looking out of just snapped a photo with his iPhone (or Google Glass, I guess, since he's not using his hands), you know? Perhaps that's the mood you intended, but from the excerpt that's not the atmosphere I imagined. I would recommend thinking about how you could use mood lighting (cf. loominous) to emphasize the strangeness/sadness/menace/whatever of the scene. Also, I think you can do more with the cemetery than the sketchy tombstones you put in some of the thumbnail sketches. In my mind's eye I pictured something more grandly dilapidated, like the ruins of a Greek temple (but with mausoleums etc.) .

nihilyst: I think your monster idea is great! One of my favorites. I'm not quite so sure about the hopeless stretching after a boat it can't reach. It almost seems to make it irrelevant. Whether the monster is threatening or threatened, I think it would be more interesting to see it directly interact (or with the potential to interact) with someone/something, and it would help the viewer understand what kind of monster this is.

Mordalles: Wow, haven't seen you around in a long time! Your monster design is truly disgusting (seems more like a giant flea than a rabbit or turtle to me, but that hardly matters!), and I can easily see it as a concept for a comic, movie or game. Just keep going!

Cerno: I think you generally have a nice, classic dragon design, but I think you should work a bit more on the pose and anatomy. Having all the limbs in front of the body like that looks a bit ungainly, and it doesn't create any clear lines to provide a sense of movement. To underscore the mammalian nature of the monster, maybe make the face even more bull-like? Don't worry about lighting and scales and all that until you've got the shape of the monster more firmly locked down.

Andail: I really liked the ugly flying shrimp snake in the Week 1 final sketch, so I'm sorry that you've fogged it all up in your latest edit. Maybe you could have more than one, a closer one where we see at least the head somewhat clearly, and others in the foggy distance?

Selmiak: Cool, funny design. I can see this monster in e.g. a game like Space Quest. The way the tail is coiled, it sort of looks like multiple legs hanging off to the side. In fact, you might consider whether you want to incorporate that.

SookieSock: Wow, nice drawing! As for the monster design, the lack of a head is the most distinctive feature. A drawback with that is that you lose a lot of expressiveness, and to make it recognizable you're forced to stick to a very humanoid layout. I don't know if you went through a lot of other options, but have you considered maybe something with a head and not the standard two-arms/two-legs layout?

Kasander: Uaaagh! Nightmare fodder right there! Looking excellent.

ThreeOhFour: I really like your latest sketch, which gets away a bit from the "Oogaboogabooga" man-in-rubber-suit look. As usual you're selecting cool lightsources. Though my favorite of your sketches is still the Shai-Hulud thing you started out with!

Oh god, in the time it's taken to write this, there's been lots of more feedback (most of which I haven't read), lots of people have updated their sketches, and so some of my comments are redundant or not even applicable any more. Well, I'm not changing them now; I'm sure by the time I'd be done they would be out of date again. Good work, everybody!

[Cerno]

Last update for today.

I played around a bit with talons:



Also I tried to apply the pose I sketched earlier.
Somehow I get the feeling that every time I go from abstract to concrete the picture loses a lot of personality

Anyway, I know this is far from perfect, but I think I'll have to start thinking about lighting and colors, since I'm running out of time for the sketch phase...

[Kasander]

First of all: everyone, thanks a lot for the comments and feedback!

For last couple of days I had no time to work on my monster. And it seems I'm going to be offline for the whole weekend, and since my tablet is a monster itself, digital painting is out of question ;(  I guess I won't be posting anything new until Monday or so :/ Maybe I'll do some proper analog painting for a change, if I have time - even a simple watercolor doodle can sometimes make a cool, usable texture. Anyway, keep up the good work, guys and gals!



SOME LATE FEEDBACK:

@ ThreeOhFour

I like the spikes (I have very fond memories of Doom, too ). I'd even suggest adding more of them (perhaps little ones?), to make the monster look even more dangerous.

There's one spike that doesn't convince me, though: the one in monster's jaw. I just can't imagine Mr Spikey sitting on his throne and having a nap: this spike would hurt his chest! I'd suggest bending it outwards so it could be more practical for a tired, hard-working monster (which I believe he is). 

I also like the overall ambience, the red pool beneath monster's feet (I wonder what's in it) . Cool. Carry on!

@ Cerno

I know you've decided to abandon 3/4 due to lack of time, but I'll post this anyway.



It's the quick sketch I did yesterday trying to simplify your monster (the old version of it ) to make it easier to draw. Helpful or not, I just didn't want it go to waste Have fun and be patient to your monster! It'll pay off

@ waheela

Fortune-teller's hands are closer on your last sketches, so the distance is not an issue anymore. Still you could make them bigger, they look realy tiny atm. No matter how big the fortune teller's hands would be, your monster will appear dominant anyway - since it's occupying most of the picture.

IMO, you shouldn't worry too much about the cemetary atm, at least not until you have the monster and the fortune teller pretty much 'nailed'. They are like two starring actors of your composition and the cemetery is having 'only' a supporting role. At least that's the way I see it.

One more thing: if you're fully convinced about placing your scene at the cemetery (which is an unusual place to have a tarot reading - but I like this idea anyway), you could have them dealing cards on someone's gravestone.

You could also consider having monster in the centre, so the cemetery would be visible on both of its sides. Yeah, I know that's quite a lot of things to consider;)

Well, that's all for now. Good luck and have fun!

[miguel]

Thanks to all of you who took your time to comment on Nitro, the monster I created. To answer all of your comments back would be nice but at the same time pretty boring to viewers.
As you will see on my next update, I didn't take most of your advices. I continued to do stuff on Nitro who, very patiently didn't move an inch.

17 May 2013 - Update

Step 10 - Hair brushed and parted. Typical me, typical me. Typical me.



Edit: Photobucket is acting stupid on me, maybe tomorrow...
Finally got photobucket to work, sorry about that.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Okay, so I decided to start applying some basic colors today before going back and pushing shadows and highlights some more.  I also redrew the hero entirely at a higher vantage with him crouched behind some rocks and preparing to fire.  I spent most of my time playing around with colors for the 'evil' clouds and the monster so I didn't get very far with the cliff or the water.  I'm liking how it is turning out, though.

[loominous]

Away on a trip, so I can't really work on my piece til sunday, but I agree about the lack of monstrousness vibe from my character. I'll be taking it further, but not that much, since I'm not into scary/freakish stuff, and I suspect I may be failing the topic to at least a degree. But with details I think it could turn out to be a cool piece, which is what I care about.


Andail:
I'm liking the fleshing out of the scene. Feels kinda flat/uninteresting on a macro level though, as if stuck between atmospheric n punchy, and I'd experiment with both routes, seeing what works best.

On a non technical level, I am kinda bothered by the woman with the gun, and the whole current arrangement to a degree. Basically if you were to look at the woman only, you'd think they were followed closely by a car or something else that this peashooter of hers could actually affect, instead of this mountain sized creature which doesn't really seem that interested in them.

Perhaps make the monster look straight at them, or as if almost scanning them with its eyes, and make her just hold on to the guy while looking back. Guess another idea would be to make the weapon seem powerful enough to affect it, either by making it seem technologically advanced or magical.

Prog:

Think the lighthouse may be superfluous at this point, perhaps exchange it for a moon, for backlight, a la 304.
On a larger scale, I'd look for opportunities to add big bright blobs, to make it exciting on a macro level, the easiest would be in the sky, and could make the monster pop better.

[miguel]

Progz: I love the colours and mood, but I thing you have too many events going on, it gets a bit distracting. I read the previous post about a lighthouse and actually searched your piece for it, even if its pretty obvious where it is now... Would it be a stupid advice of me if I say that you need more references for sizes but less events?
Taking a closer look, I think that the lighthouse beam on the water can work well and make some cool effect. Add a lamp next to the shooter so that we understand why he is being lit? The distance from the pillar fire and the shooter looks huge...
You picked the most difficult composition of all of us, in my opinion. I think it would be much easier for you if you'd change the angle of the pillar cliff.



Andail: cool stuff here! A chase on a motorbike with lady shooting at monsters! Can't beat that! My advice, get a new monster, same type of course but closer to the action, really chasing them.


Ben: you're monster is starting to glow in a daze of colourful glory! That moon looks superb.

[Misj']

I've been very busy this week, and will get even more so this weekend...so I really hope that I can find the time to work on the piece on Monday. But first a lengthy intermission (that took a lot of time that I should have spend on something else).

[Kasander]

@ Misj'

It's great that you took the time to draw these ancient principles mate

The thing with the golden ratio is, it's mainly used to show perfect proportions. Flow, as you said. Balance, harmonies, etc. Mostly in architecture, also in classical (ancient) sculpture (it can also be  observe in the nature a lot). That's where it's used.

But the illustration - especially a film-like, live-action one like yours -  is a bit different animal. Sure it can show balance, and the composition could be graceful and elegant.

But the theme of your ilustration is the confrontation (monster vs humans), not a still nature or some other peaceful scene. The golden rule surely can be applied to it, but imo it doesn't serve you that well.

If you were to go for the rule of the thirds' though, it's really easy to apply (no need to get rid of the monks!). Just rotate the monster a bit, so she appears to be facing them. Bend her, twist her - and perhaps you'll get some more 'monstrosity' in the process from her;)  Or move the monks to the right and make the pillar next to them thinner.

Anyway, it's all up to you. I like the overall mood of the piece, and it's so well executed, but just it's a bit too 'balanced' for a 'fighting monster' scene! Cheers and have fun with you piece!

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Tiny update.  Focused mainly on the clouds (I'm pretty happy with how they turned out) and added some more visibility to the light house and land masses on the horizon.  Still need to start tackling the water and other stuff.  Also I re-added the monsters' beak because I wasn't quite happy with it the way it was.



Miguel:  Is the light house easier to see now?  I'm still not finished with it.