KQ4 Remake Cover.. need help!

[Nightfable]

Hey, I'm back on here again! 

I've been slaving on this one picture and I intend to finish it today or for tomorrow.

I'd love to get your advice on things that would enhance, and make this picture more professional looking. I think I've looked at it way too much.. A different perspective on this would really be appreciated.

Thanks!! 

[Buckethead]

I would try to make things more dynamic by adding in a effects and little details. Maybe something like feathers flying around and sparkles and maybe glow around some stuff. Also the title might be better off on the top then on the bottom.

[Moresco]

It looks cool, but it seems like it doesn't read well.  Everything has the same saturation and it's too heavy.  Everything is competing, I'm not sure what to look at.  Maybe that's good, I don't know much about collages, but I would try pulling some things back a bit and go for something with a bit more depth.   

For example, there are all these things in front of the mirror, but the mirror doesn't get any shadow.  It's so bright...maybe make it bright at the top with highlights and put it in shadow towards the bottom half.  Also the dudes and the world in the mirror are very strong, make them fade out in saturation as they disappear into the mirror.  Same with the whole city and world in there, it's far too loud.

But I like it, keep it up.

[StillInThe90s]

Looks nice so far. Maybe a tiny bit busy.
I say let it rest for a couple of days and get back to it with new eyes. (not sure if that is proper english but I hope you get my point anyway)

[Nightfable]

Is this a bit better?



Thanks for the great advice, I'm trying my hardest to make this work.

[Monsieur OUXX]

The increase of the contrast made it look MUCH better.
Maybe you should increase the contrast between the unicornm and the mirror a little bit more?

[Anian]

It looks kind of weird that the pink cloud (upper right corner) is dark orangey pink on the right of the castle but completly pink on the left side.

Besides that, it doesn't look like anything is wrong with the drawing (wish I could draw like that), except that it looks like it was not drawn on a computer, but rather like one of those drawings from children's books from way back. If you're going for that look then it's just fine (except for the cloud thing).

[Monsieur OUXX]

Nitpicking: Maybe the horse's face (and to a certain extent the princess' face and chest) could do a little bit of rework, so that their shading reaches the same level of detail as the rest of the scene.

[Tabata]

In my personal opinion it is too much for a cover-view. The horse with the princess alone would be a great eyecatcher and of course the title should be much more dominant.

So you need only one short view to realise: "That's what I want so see more of. Let's have a second look and grab it!"

You could use the other parts on the backside with the description.

A poster can have some more stuff, but all the surroundings shouldn't have the same brilliance, because they are meant to work like a kind of background (e.g. by getting darker in close proximity to the eye-catching).

Only my 2 cents - really don't want to offend! I love your style!

[Moresco]

Sometimes it's easier to see the difference than it is to explain it.  So, I decided to do a very quick edit to illustrate some differences in value and how it can affect your painting.




So let's take a look at these four.  Your original is on the right, the modified version on the left.  The black / white version is basically both versions, with color information removed.  It's easy to do and check for yourself if you edit in photoshop for example.  Just throw a solid black layer on top of the image and set the layer blending to Saturation.  It's a good idea to do this as you're painting, to make sure your colors are staying true to your value.  What this means is, it's easy to go over the entire painting with very saturated colors and lose sight of the front-to-back separation of elements.   Your stronger values should be closer to you, while as things go back in space, their values tend to weaken.

What you're after is a sense that the picture reads.  That's probably one of the most important things you can learn, right up there with composition, although composition is number one in my opinion. 

I left the faeries a little bit stronger in saturation to help with that space, because otherwise the corner is very empty feeling and your eye tends to stay too focused on just the unicorn. 

An easy way to desaturate if you've gone too far, is throw a duplicate layer on top of the one you have, desaturate to a lower value, and set your eraser to low opacity, like 30% or so, and start erasing over the parts you want to be the focal point - the stuff in front with the strongest color.  Erase until those things start to pop out, and then take another step back and check your values.  Well, I hope it helps...cheers!

Edit: One more thing, why not change the orientation of the chicken so that it's facing toward your focal point, kind of like the frog?  Is it running from the unicorn? It seems odd how it is, and reversing it might help pull the viewer in more.

[Monsieur OUXX]

I support the idea of desaturating the background, but maybe not so much. In the example above, the beautiful colors have been ruined and the background appears all dark gray

[Snarky]

The technique in this image is really nice, and Rosella's dress and the chicken, as well as the mirror frame, are particularly nicely rendered. The big problem, as everyone has said, is that the composition is very busy, and that all the individual elements are given equal weight, so that instead of Rosella and the unicorn jumping out of the image, it just becomes a confusing whirl of colors.

Yes, I agree that Moresco's version overdoes the desaturation (though I think the metallic look of the mirror is interesting, and worth experimenting with as a more subtle effect), but the approach is in the right direction. Also, apart from just darkening the elements that are deemphasized, it's also possible to reduce their contrast, employing atmospheric perspective.

Another problem I have with the original is that the colors are very flat, with shadows mostly just slightly darker versions of the main color, and few highlights. This gives the whole thing the flat, matte look of a color drawing, and reduces the immediacy and realism. For example, the frog, which should realistically be slick and shiny, has the matte flatness of a cartoon. There's no difference in texture between its surface and the flower it sits on, or the fabric of Rosella's dress, or the witch's green skin.

The green skin of the witch is the other noticeable example of something that is flatter than it should be, and the dresses of the fairies. Judicious use of some lighting effects, such as reflective highlights, and particularly hue/saturation variation in the shadows (preferably with some unifying sense of light sources, though that could be tough in such a collage-y composition) would help add depth to the image, and could also help with the emphasis. You have some nice highlights on the mirror frame, so it's well within your capability.

Oh, and some blackness in the deeper shadows would also help, as Moresco has penciled in (a bit too heavily) on the mirror frame design.

As I said, the rendering is very good, but the big exception is the muscle play on the unicorn. The bit where the leg connects to the body looks severely wrong. I'm not too fond of the shaggy leg or ridiculously long mane either (too "My Little Pony"), but that's an issue with the character design rather than this image. Though should Rosella really be holding both sides of the bridle on the same side?

For the composition in general, I would wonder if it's not possible to ground all the elements in one scene instead of apparently just collage-ing them together as separate and unrelated elements. Particularly this applies to the witch, whose pink little cloud is completely detached from the rest of the composition (she doesn't even appear to be aware of Rosella or anything else that's going on). I think it would be less confusing and more dramatic to have her physically present behind Rosella, standing on the same (implied) ground as the dwarfs (at least the two that have emerged from the mirror) and the leaping unicorn, with her castle in the distance, and showing some sort of awareness of them, maybe with her hand on the mirror as she grasps after the fleeing princess.

[Buckethead]

I've made a paint-over aswell, adressing some of the problems mentioned:



I hope it helps.

[Nightfable]

Even though there may be composition problems, I really don't want to start reconstructing this picture and start all over - it took me so long to get here...

I appreciate the constructive criticism, I have a lot of new ways to bettering my problem areas.

I really like what you've done Buckethead. Do you find the picture becomes a bit dark though?

My first intention was to go with bright colors similar to a Walt Disney movie cover.



That's why it looks so cartoony. ^^

[InCreator]

Sorry but you totally killed title text/banner with desaturation. Also, I'd keep the princess and horse in full saturation of the original.
Art can be spontaneous, you don't have to press it into some "safe" limits, like "not too bright" "not too dark" etc.
What you could do though is bring some colors out more while leaving others as on latest edit.
Like reds on evil queen thing, sea in mirror, wings on fairies, etc. A bit of neon-glowing, fairy-tale-esque effect, I think. Snow White example does exactly this.

[Moresco]

All I meant to do was give a stark example to elude to the presence of value and how it could affect her piece.  I have no intention of saying, "do it like my example". 

It's done overboard on purpose to express a point, sometimes it's easier to get it across that way.  What she decides to do with her art is up to her, I would never try to "complete" someones art for them. 

[Monsieur OUXX]

ow about a halo around the princess?

[Snarky]

Even though there may be composition problems, I really don't want to start reconstructing this picture and start all over - it took me so long to get here...

Yes, that's understandable. I think you could integrate the witch better into the scene without too many changes to the overall composition, but clearly it would take a bit of work.

I really like what you've done Buckethead. Do you find the picture becomes a bit dark though?

All the edits have tended to be too dark overall, in my opinion.

My first intention was to go with bright colors similar to a Walt Disney movie cover.



That's why it looks so cartoony. ^^

I see that. In my opinion the composition of the Disney image is not very good (it's also traced rather lazily from different frames of the movie), so I think it's only natural that it led you astray. In many ways I prefer yours, apart from it being so busy.

[Nightfable]

Hey Snarky, what could I do to make it less busy without taking away important elements? I've been asking myself that... maybe Lolotte's cloud and castle? The dwarves? The chicken? It's definitely too busy!! I'll go play around with my layers.

[Buckethead]

Yeah looking back my edit is way too dark for sure. I guess it's just a personal preference. But I think the cover isn't too busy if you make sure the eye doesn't have to focus on everything at once.

Look at this Nanny McPhee cover.



There's alot going on, but it's still nice to look at. I think what works here is that they use one master colour. Everything has this blue-ish tint. Also they use lighter and darker areas to shift the focus.