Lunar Landing

[FrankT]

I've longed to build an Apollo Moon mission sim for quite a while, and at one point I decided, why not make a point-and-click one? Like those two "Apollo 18" games? (Perhaps I should get "Searching for Sam & Max" out the way first.)
I've made a start already; using Eagle Lander 3D and Orbiter NASSP for reference, I drew up the LM cockpit. Now, assuming that the instruments have a mouseover label, and the numbers on the altitude dials are made a little larger for convenience, would you say this screen delivers all the important information to you, i.e. fuel, altitude, velocity, thrust, all that?

[Construed]

awesome instrumentation! can't wait to see how it works

[FrankT]

Thanks!

Now, just a question: how should I draw a sort of semi-circular panoramic view? I'm sure you know I don't understand perspective very well...

[Khris]

As in, a scrolling background? You could do several layers of parallax scrolling, not only does it always look "retro cool" but the uniform, bland moon surface is perfect for that kind of thing.

[FrankT]

Mm, I can try that. Um - is parallax scrolling easy?

[Technocrat]

Extremely! Essentially, things in different distances are each a different object, and they move at different speeds (the "further" ones move more slowly), creating the illusion of distance. Voila, parallax!

[FrankT]

So how do I program something like that?

[Martyn]

AGS Parallax Scrolling Plugin

[Khris]

Yes, there's a module.

You can also code it yourself, it's really simple:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=46138.msg619709#msg619709

Using that code and a foreground object that's not as wide as the room, you'll get the effect of a static camera turning.
You can easily adjust this to include more than one object.
But we should continue this in the tech forum when the time comes.

[KodiakBehr]

Love the idea, FrankT!

I once made a prototype of an orbital simulator that would allow anyone to develop the mission architecture of a manned expedition to Mars -- sort of like "Oregon Trail goes to Space".  I abandoned the concept when I couldn't make it fun enough while still being able to call it a "simulator".

I second the need for Parallax Scrolling.  How functional do you want your buttons and switches to be?  Because I can't make out the text on any of them.  What is the blue-grey instrument supposed to be?  Depending on what you're going for, and what you want the player to do, you might want to consider swapping that instrument out with the Lunar Module Computer (http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200907/r396519_1856921.jpg).

Also, this is a matter of personal opinion, but I think the photoscape of the lunar surface would be even more appealing if it was replaced with a simple pixelated surface, consistent with the style of the LM. 

[FrankT]

What is the blue-grey instrument supposed to be?

Which one do you mean?

[KodiakBehr]

The instrument below the meter that reads 1023207.

[FrankT]

I think it indicates the lateral speed. I'm not sure, but all the same, it's there for realism.

[FrankT]

Anyway, taking your other suggestion into account, I've done a little experimentation.

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/SfSaM/new_scape2b.png[/imgzoom]

I tried putting in all the little things like mountains and craters, but they just didn't come out right for some reason.....

[Armageddon]

With that perspective you'd only be able to see mountains, if you add some curvature you could probably see some of the craters.

[FrankT]

How do I do curvature anyway?

[FrankT]

#18, alas, is now permanently associated with killer moon rocks... but #20 should make a suitable substitute.

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/SfSaM/patch.png[/imgzoom]

What do you think? Does it need a touch more detail, or...?

[KodiakBehr]

I'm a fan.  Certainly a step up from the original Apollo mission patches (with exception to 11, whereby a giant eagle seizes control of the moon).

[FrankT]

Thanks! This one's based on the actual Apollo 20 patch if it had flown, if I'm not much mistaken.

[FrankT]

An important question: would you, as an audience, prefer a more simplified set of control panels (a la "Apollo 18: The Moon Missions"), or a more aesthetically correct (and indeed slightly more complex) set (a la "Shuttle")? I imagine since this is being planned on an adventure game structure, the majority will lean toward the former, but we'll see.

[KodiakBehr]

No matter which you pursue, I'll pick it up because I love the thematic.  But if you're describing your game as a simulator, I'm going in with the assumption that accuracy took priority over other factors.  If you're calling it an adventure game, then priority should go towards storytelling, puzzle design and entertainment value.

[FrankT]

Mm. I was hoping to wedge in a few little plotlines as well. Just a smidge.

[FrankT]

Ugh, I don't think I can deal with drawing in all those little details There's got to be an easier way! Hold that thought! I think I've got an idea....

[lo_res_man]

This should hopefully be of some assistance, assuming you don't already have it.

[FrankT]

Thanks, but I already have those diagrams.

[FrankT]

A little experimentation in progress. Perhaps the craft could now be piloted through a completely simplified and computerized interface - should make it great for playing the game on a touchscreen!

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/TWotW/newcomp1.png[/imgzoom]

The layout derives from Apollo 18: The Moon Missions, but I gave it a sort of Space Shuttle computer feel.

[FrankT]

Alright, this one may be the final concept for the CSM panel set.

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/SfSaM/copy_of_csm_panel.png[/imgzoom]

I aimed for a sort of cross between Apollo 18 and the Space Shuttle panels in the original Orbiter (below).

[Technocrat]

Bilmey, that's a lot of buttons!

[FrankT]

But substantially less to work with than before.

[selmiak]

this looks overburdening (especially for players new to the game). You should probably include some elaborate mouseover help texts within the game that can also be turned off once the player knows what he is doing.
Or maybe groups this and have some nice dropdown menus. And think of an easy excuse to do so, like science or so

[FrankT]

I can add those in, but I'll need to know how first.

[KodiakBehr]

Your attention to detail is WONDERFUL, and you've brought back highly dated memories of playing with Orbiter on a Macintosh Plus at a kid.  I'm dying to know how you intend to get the physics working here.

If you want this to be an accessible game, rather than a simulator, I second the comment that you'll need mouseovers on all those buttons so people can understand what they're doing.

[FrankT]

So here we have a primitive version of the Johnson Space Center. Has a sort of early vector-graphics feel.

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/SfSaM/jsc5b.png[/imgzoom]

I don't suppose I'm better off using photos, am I?

[FrankT]

The same shot, but with added shadow, and the grass gets a nice little noise touch.

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/SfSaM/jsc5d.png[/imgzoom]

[selmiak]

maybe you should handpaint the shadows and not just move the building objects by a few pixels and fill with black and overlay it. Just look at the pin like statue in the upper middle.
And when the darkest side of the buildungs faces to the right the shadows should also drop into that direction with the light coming from the left.
I like the overall feel of the image except that the black lines are too dark, too much contrast and the already mentioned things with the shadows.

[CaptainD]

Wow that looks like it could have been a screenshot from Elite 2: Frontier on the 16-bits!  Awesome!

[FrankT]

maybe you should handpaint the shadows and not just move the building objects by a few pixels and fill with black and overlay it. Just look at the pin like statue in the upper middle.

Well, we've already established that I'm no good at painting shadows, but... yeah.

[FrankT]

And since we're making this accessible, there's room for a little humour too!

[imgzoom]http://www.majhost.com/gallery/EvilGuy/SfSaM/00b.png[/imgzoom]

I'm not sure, did they use that cover design in 1975...?

[FrankT]

Bit of a problem... the CSM panel (above) has too many buttons to fit on one screen, and I'm not quite sure how to adequately split the panels up... bear with me!

[FrankT]

Alright, I'm taking this one step further... transferring the controls onto the keyboard! What would you say to these keyboard layouts?


CSM Controls


LM Controls.

Kind of had "Space Shuttle" for the Atari consoles in mind here.

[GlaDOSik]

If the panel won't fit the screen, don't split it. You can set the arrow keys to move the screen. Something like: if (IsKeyPress == eKeyUpArrow) SetViewport(GetViewportX, GetViewportY - 5);
I like the keyboard control, but prefer mouse control a little bit more.

[selmiak]

yeah, every grrrl likes more buttons to press... *can't express this whith a smiley*

[FrankT]

If the panel won't fit the screen, don't split it. You can set the arrow keys to move the screen. Something like: if (IsKeyPress == eKeyUpArrow) SetViewport(GetViewportX, GetViewportY - 5);
I like the keyboard control, but prefer mouse control a little bit more.

I mean the panel fits into the screen, it's just that it has more than the maximum number of buttons and screens on it. This requires a total and thorough reworking; I may have to get rid of it entirely!