Beginners stuff

[Tyr]

So, right now I'm just experimenting trying to see if its feasible for me to make a game before I actually go and do something that takes a lot of effort. A few questions though are arrising about this though.

1: Why does everything have to be so small?
Many of the AGP games are unplayable due to the tiny resolution- in a window you can't see anything and in full screen the monitor starts spewing error messages and it just looks horrid.

2: Outlines.
I made this little bloke (very crap, I know, loose pixels and unoriginal, etc....) to test animation in action.



A trouble I'm seeing though is in his trousers...they're too dark so the lines are just all blurred and there's just one big leggy blur. Lightening them things are clearer:



So what do I do for dark colours to stop them wrecking the outline?

3: Background.
What do you do for the background on characters?
Here I used green as it was unused with the man (unlike white), what is normal practice for implimenting into the game though so that just the guy is taken and not his background?

[Tuomas]

1. Hehe, there are of course possibilities, and you can sure make your game Hi-res. But most of us won't because of the nostalgic attraction of the genre. It's all adjustable so that there'll be no problem.

2. If that's blur to you, then I suspect your brightness settings on your monitor are somewhat messed up because it seems quite all right to me. In fact the upper animation seems like the basic denim jeans.

For dark colours wrecking the outline, I really don't understand what you mean.

3. You set a background colour. This for you is apparently green, so basically everything in this certain green will be shown as transparent. You might want to try drawing on a transparent background, if you had a program that supports such feature.

[Misj']

Hay Tyr,

1: Why does everything have to be so small?
Many of the AGP games are unplayable due to the tiny resolution- in a window you can't see anything and in full screen the monitor starts spewing error messages and it just looks horrid.

It's a personal taste of many people here. Many of the classic adventure games were low-res and as a consequence low-res has a certain appeal to many on the AGS forum. In addition, many people believe that low-res is easier to handle (and to animate) and as a consequence they stick to a lower resolution. It is not a limit of AGS but rather the personal preference of the artists.

2: Outlines.
I made this little bloke (very crap, I know, loose pixels and unoriginal, etc....) to test animation in action.

A trouble I'm seeing though is in his trousers...they're too dark so the lines are just all blurred and there's just one big leggy blur. Lightening them things are clearer:

So what do I do for dark colours to stop them wrecking the outline?

There are generally two options here:
A. just don't care that you lose some 'information'...if it looks good without the outlines being visible than there is no real reason to make sure the outlines are visible at all.
B. when dealing with dark colours, many people tend to make the outlines in those areas lighter than the fill-colour to ensure that enough contrast exists between outline and fill. Of course it does result in a certain effect that may be undesired.

On a side-note: many people here dislike the black outlines and will urge you to use coloured outlines instead. Personally I favour black outlines and believe that coloured outlines (or colour holds) should be used to create a certain effect (often in combination with the black outlines) rather than a general rule...but that too is my personal taste.

3: Background.
What do you do for the background on characters?
Here I used green as it was unused with the man (unlike white), what is normal practice for implimenting into the game though so that just the guy is taken and not his background?

I always use .PNG files with a transparent background and an alpha-channel to create anti-aliased edges.

Just some answers...hope they help.

[Khris]

1: Why does everything have to be so small?
Many of the AGP games are unplayable due to the tiny resolution- in a window you can't see anything and in full screen the monitor starts spewing error messages and it just looks horrid.

That's why there's a x2 and x3 filter option in newer games. Use x2 for fullscreen, x3 for windowed. Older games don't have that option, but can be run using a newer version of the engine if they aren't too old.

[Tyr]

1:
I've no problem with the games looking old (I like that too) but actually being so tiny? It wasn't like that in the old days, they filled the screen just fine.
So this X  thing is as standard now? Most I've downloaded lacked it.


2:

For dark colours wrecking the outline, I really don't understand what you mean.

With the lighter trousered version you can clearly see where one leg ends and another begins, the hand in the pocket, etc... With the dark one though its just all one big dark area of mystery.
A character's trousers should of course be a place of mystery but...not in this way.

B. when dealing with dark colours, many people tend to make the outlines in those areas lighter than the fill-colour to ensure that enough contrast exists between outline and fill. Of course it does result in a certain effect that may be undesired.

But wouldn't it be a bit odd for the outline to suddenly turn from black to something light on the same character?


3:

I always use .PNG files with a transparent background and an alpha-channel to create anti-aliased edges.

Sorry but....that means nothing to me.
What does this mean?
I can save as a png but no such options arise.

[Matti]

You need the right graphic software to use that option. Take a look at the wiki article for PNGs, if you don't know what an alpha channel is..

[Tuomas]

2:

For dark colours wrecking the outline, I really don't understand what you mean.

With the lighter trousered version you can clearly see where one leg ends and another begins, the hand in the pocket, etc... With the dark one though its just all one big dark area of mystery.
A character's trousers should of course be a place of mystery but...not in this way.

Well that's a problem for you then, as I don't see a problem there. I again say, perhaps you just have your monitor set to a bit too dark level, eh?

[Khris]

1:
I've no problem with the games looking old (I like that too) but actually being so tiny? It wasn't like that in the old days, they filled the screen just fine.
So this X  thing is as standard now? Most I've downloaded lacked it.

Are you serious? You did notice that the standard screen resolution of home PCs quadrupled since 1992, didn't you? Of course a 320 window looks tiny on a 1280 screen.
XP still supports a fullscreen res of 320, but with Vista or recent graphics cards, playing a 320 game in fullscreen mode is only possible using the x2 filter.

It wasn't implemented until AGS 2.71 I think, so unfortunately, older games lack it, correct.

[Tuomas]

Yeah, it's pretty easy math. you've got 320 pixels, but your screen takes in 4 times the amount. So the image/game will look smaller as the pixels are squeezed in to give more detail. And the "x thing" basically just streches it out so that it'll get bigger.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

This is the CL, not the place for a general discussion/argument about screen sizes and things being too small.  Get back to the topic of his sprite, please .  And on that subject:


Looking at your sprite I can see a few problems that will make your outline less than it could be:

1.  You use a lot of pixel doubling in the outline, making for jaggy building-block like sections.  Removing these extra pixels to smooth out the outline should be a priority.

2.  The outline isn't consistent through the frames (it disappears in spots) and there are lighter pixels beyond the outline.  Remove those and clean up the outline for each frame.

3.  There's random aliasing inside the shoes that you should remove to make the sprite lines clean.  This will reinforce the cartoony aspect of the sprite.

Fixing the above will make your outline stand out much better.  As for picking the right shades, it just takes practice.  Play around with your HSV (RGB) slider for the pants color until you come up with something complimentary.

[Tyr]

This is the CL, not the place for a general discussion/argument about screen sizes and things being too small.  Get back to the topic of his sprite, please .  And on that subject:

Nah, I recognise the crappyness of the sprite and mentioned it in my post, I was told though to ask questions relating to these issues here though.

Are you serious? You did notice that the standard screen resolution of home PCs quadrupled since 1992, didn't you? Of course a 320 window looks tiny on a 1280 screen.
XP still supports a fullscreen res of 320, but with Vista or recent graphics cards, playing a 320 game in fullscreen mode is only possible using the x2 filter.

It wasn't implemented until AGS 2.71 I think, so unfortunately, older games lack it, correct.

Of course I'm serious.
Resolution has gotten a lot bigger but screen sizes haven't by as much.

[miguel]

Welcome Tyr.
Don't get discouraged, but I suggest you dive into some manuals and tutorials.
Use the beginners thread if you couldn't find solutions in the AGS manual.
Maybe for more general issues you can use the general discussion thread.

[Tyr]

I don't want to create a new thread but a question:

Are there any guides anywhere for how to draw a character from behind?
I've been able to get a sideways and frontwards walk going just fine but from behind is awful...

[miguel]

Here's something that may help:

[Ryan Timothy B]

I can't stand those walk cycles.  Too cartoony and over exaggerated.  They'd be good for a cartoony game like Tyr's, I guess.

[Tyr]

A bit, thanks.
That helps add to my understanding a bit more together with another one I have.
I'm still not quite getting it as easily as I did with the other though. Just taking those images and compiling them into a animation it looks...wrong. Even if I colour it.


Edit by ProgZ:  Don't quote images, please.

[Fireball16]

looking good tyr i like them