On Drawing Backgrounds

[StillInThe90s]

I know this thread has been dead since february, but here goes anyway.
Thanks for a great tutorial Ben! It has been a great help. However, my brush-based work tends to scream made-with-photoshop-brush. Any idea how to make it more organic and less photoshop?

Any chance of an indoor scene tutorial btw?

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

You knew how long the thread had been dead for but posted anyway?  Breaking site rules knowingly must certainly be worse than doing it accidentally, so don't do this again.  If you want help from ben, send him a private message.  Don't dredge up a 7 month old thread (or any thread older than a month, generally) unless you're the original poster.

[StillInThe90s]

You knew how long the thread had been dead for but posted anyway?  Breaking site rules knowingly must certainly be worse than doing it accidentally, so don't do this again.  If you want help from ben, send him a private message.  Don't dredge up a 7 month old thread (or any thread older than a month, generally) unless you're the original poster.

That's overreacting for you.
Overreacting and quite rude actually. Who says I knew about that rule anyway?

[markbilly]

I don't normally speak out on such issues but let's not put the poor guy off...

If this was a usual critics lounge post I would understand the point of bringing up the thread rules - the author will have finished or abandoned the piece they were working on by this later time.

It is a tutorial post, though. Surely it is not beyond reason for people to post comments of thanks or curiosity at any time regardless of how old it is?

I don't want to cause any trouble or single anyone out on purpose, but the attitude with which forum rules are upheld here has caused contention in the past and it can't be healthy for the community. Surely the general atmosphere and welcome we give as a forum is more important than the unforgiving protection of rules?

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

It is far more rude to join a website and start violating rules you agreed to uphold in the registration, so ignorance is just no excuse.  Read the rules at the header of every forum thread and obey them and you will have no problem; pretend they aren't there or show a disrespect for them and you will be called out on it.  Fullstop.  Ignorance of the rules is never a sufficient excuse.

If you have anything further to say about this, send me a PM.  This thread is not for discussing whether or not you agree with how the rules are enforced.  If Ben has nothing to add to the thread, I'll give this a lock in a few days.

[Dualnames]

This is more of a sticky-about-to-be kind of topic. So I found it rather unjust. I was thinking of consulting this topic, at some point.

And he was aware how old the topic was.

I think its incredible stupid to let a troll just walk on by for days/weeks and remember the rules on somebody that actually knows them.

I think he should shot on the wall of justice. So he never violates any rules anymore. Yay, for the welcoming party. Now let's find who forums part of AGS iceygames is violating.

[cat]

This tutorial is also linked to in the Tutorial Redux announcement. So it is not possible to add comments on any of them? 

[markbilly]

I just get the feeling we should all take a step back and grasp some perspective. Yes, rules are important but there needs to be room to apply some common sense, too. At the end of the day, it's just a forum. A forum full of friendly enthusiasts. I think any action that threatens that atmosphere is more grave than a little rule breaking...

Anyway, I'm going to draw a big line now so people can continue the thread on-topic (i.e. about Ben's art)...

[Wonkyth]

'Till Ben answers in person, I hope I can help this 90s man:
From what I know of Ben's art, the particular background drawn in the tutorial is incredibly typical of his style, being a strange mix of matrix-punk and something else. His style isn't fully explained in this tutorial, as it only lays out the basic structure from which he builds the final image. This additive process isn't something that can be easily explained in a tutorial, and practice is really the only thing that can help one add the fine details which are what turns the art from the tutorial into that which you see in his games.
With a few exceptions, Ben's indoor scenes seem to be made much in the same way, simply replacing the background with a more appropriate view.
While I don't pretend to be a Ben-Art-Scholar, I hope this has been helpful.

[Snarky]

If this was a usual critics lounge post I would understand the point of bringing up the thread rules
...
I don't want to cause any trouble or single anyone out on purpose, but the attitude with which forum rules are upheld here has caused contention in the past and it can't be healthy for the community. Surely the general atmosphere and welcome we give as a forum is more important than the unforgiving protection of rules?

It is far more rude to join a website and start violating rules you agreed to uphold in the registration, so ignorance is just no excuse.  Read the rules at the header of every forum thread and obey them and you will have no problem; pretend they aren't there or show a disrespect for them and you will be called out on it.  Fullstop.  Ignorance of the rules is never a sufficient excuse.

Well, there is one tiny little detail to consider: There is no rule against posting to old threads on the Critics Lounge.

Maybe you've got this board confused with the Games in Production forum, ProgZMax, but like you say, ignorance of the rules is not a sufficient excuse, and is never a reason to be an asshole.

[Andail]

True.
Not digging up old threads is kind of a universal rule pertaining to message boards in general, and not explicitly mentioned here, so we probably shouldn't be too anal when enforcing it.

[Wonkyth]

Well then, gentlemen, as you were. 
StillInThe90s, you will have to overlook the various squabbles of those with power.
No hard feelings, eh? 

[ThreeOhFour]

Sorry for the late reply, I've been out of town for a few days!

With regards to making a picture more organic and less "photoshoppy", it really depends on how you work - what brushes you use, whether you use a mouse or a tablet (or trackpad), how you blend your colours, how you lighten and darken... that sort of thing. If you want to post an example with a specific question I might be able to help (you can of course PM me about it).

As for indoors scenes, I'm not shy about the fact that I don't really like doing them very much; but have been doing a lot more of them lately. The concept is basically the same - instead of starting with sky, start with a whole screen of your shadow colour, place your lightsources and shade with them, basically. Like anything, I've worked out a method of doing them through trying again and again to draw indoors scenes, picking up little bits as I go .

Hope this helps - like I said, feel free to PM me if you want.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I could've sworn the registration page had a note about this, but it's still always been that the necroposting rule applied to all forums of the site.  If that's not clear in the registration than that sounds like an oversight that should be corrected for the future; as it stands, I've added the rule here in the CL to make it clearer that this forum follows the basic rules of the GiP and General Forum like all others do.  Sorry about that!

[Snarky]

Sorry to continue the off-topic argument. Maybe best to split off some of the posts in the thread to a new one in another forum?

True.
Not digging up old threads is kind of a universal rule pertaining to message boards in general, and not explicitly mentioned here, so we probably shouldn't be too anal when enforcing it.

This varies enormously from forum to forum, and I don't agree that it's a universal rule. Some forums automatically lock all old threads, others want you to dig up threads that are years old if your question is at all related instead of making a new one (e.g. The Digital Fix, most technology forums).

I could've sworn the registration page had a note about this, but it's still always been that the necroposting rule applied to all forums of the site.  If that's not clear in the registration than that sounds like an oversight that should be corrected for the future; as it stands, I've added the rule here in the CL to make it clearer that this forum follows the basic rules of the GiP and General Forum like all others do.  Sorry about that!

There's no such rule in the General Forum, either, and I would argue that it is not and should not be the general rule for all the boards, or for this board particularly. It makes sense for the Games in Production board because a game that hasn't been updated for a long time is likely to be abandoned. The more nuanced rules for the technical forums (do not dig up old threads to answer questions, DO dig up old threads if you have the same problem) make sense because old bugs and problems are likely to be fixed in newer versions and to just be confusing. And obviously there are good reasons to lock all old Competition threads.

It certainly doesn't make sense for the Hints and Tips forum (better to have all the hints in one thread), or for the Completed Games forum (you're always encouraged to leave your comments on a game you play, and shouldn't start a new thread for that when one already exists). As far as I'm aware, no one has ever suggested that this so-called rule is in effect on those boards.

For Adventure-Related Talk, the Critics Lounge and Gen-Gen it's more subjective. In some cases there could be very good reasons to revive an old thread (for example, if I came across something - let's say an insightful article - that was very relevant to this thread, I think posting it would be a Good Thing). In other cases it should probably be discouraged (reviving bitter old arguments, say). In my opinion the rules for these boards should tell people to be aware of the age of the thread they post to, consider if old threads are still relevant, and point out in their post that the thread is old so other posters don't get confused.

I think this is a great example of an instance in which reviving an old thread does make sense. It's a tutorial, so it's relevant to many readers and not really "dated" in any meaningful way (I'm sure quite a few people appreciated it showing up again), and Ben is still around and active on the forums, so he's available to answer the question. And like cat says, it's linked to in the sticky tutorials post, so it's not really something dredged up from deep in the archives.

All of which is to say, I don't think "StillInThe90s" deserved any abuse, or anything sterner than a "Well, why don't you post your work and we can have a look at it?" And I think it's a bad precedent to use as the basis for the mod policy going forward.

[Calin Leafshade]

I agree with snarky, If a post is *directly relevant* to the OP then it is completely absurd to create a new thread only to reference the old one.

[/apologies for OT]

[StillInThe90s]

Apology accepted. No hard feelings, but a bit less enthusiasm about participating in the forum.

Thanks for the on-topic answer. Sadly, I don't have any artwork worth posting at the moment. It is just too bad. I guess more experimentation will pay off eventually.
Cheers!