This is the original:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/hotel.jpg)
This is my version (work in progress):
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/hotelmyversion.png)
The style of sprite:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/Aprilfrontbackside.png)
I used Increator's tutorial on backgrounds for the most part. I'm not used to making backgrounds that way though (via photoshop and MS paint, not that other program Increator used).
I've been trying to add leaves on the tree and bush but failed miserably again and again (need help on that one). Also I'm not very confident in where to put shadows and highlights (also need help on that one).
If there's anything else I can add (I'm thinking of adding a plate with the hotel's name on it; also a police car sprite, but that's for later)
Comments, critique, tips and paint-overs are welcome!
EDIT: btw, unlike the original, my background is not set at night, but late in the evening/afternoon.
Looks good, but man does the building look awfully flat and 2d. Quite boring really. The building texture looks nice though. The windows....(I assume your trying to make it look like theres light coming from inside) pure white is really not going to cut it. I would suggest using a more of a yellower color, to make it look like actually light like was done in the original. Those little tree lookin thingys, are they suppose to be withered bushes? They look like a scaled down version of the tree. Overall, id say it looks like it has alot of potential.
PS: the sprite looks great.
Keep up the good work!
With the quality and style of the character sprite (by the way, is hot! xD), the BG don't fit Nothing. The character is like drawed, and the BG is like..... like... like a shoe throwed to the player's head in comparation. The old BG fits with his characters, and is decent... But this new, Is completely flat, without any life. Boring. You must rethink how do you make the BGs if you would to use this characters. Maybe some more usual sprite-bg painting.
How can I make this background 3D? Maybe some pillars...
Maybe I should make the tree and bushes have only a few leaves.
Should I add a crow? How can I make this setting creepy, without being too obviously Nosferatu on your face.
well, about talking about the flatiness of your bg, is question of Perspective. The BG doesn't have Perspective at all. Is a lot of squares painted in various colors.
Here some examples of perspective tutorials: If you don't gonna make the perspective via the building, you need to fit decoration with perspective to make the player is in a real world, not in a Paint archive full of flat objects pasted in it.
http://www.freewebs.com/mini-tutorial/
http://www.indylc2.com/tutorial.html
Other problem (related with perspective) is the Horizon line. If we need to think that is a real horizon, the earth could be a grass square of 50 or 100 meters over and above a strange cloud blue sky.
think about what is near this block. Isn't seems a farm house; is a apartemnt block or office at last... Its seems to be lost in Ireland plains.
If is in the outterrains of a city, maybe a kind of little forest or hills could do a better horizon line, If there's is in city, maybe a city skyline, or a pair of two buildings bigger than this house.
About the tree. Well, seems like the roots are in the air and the tree is levitating. I don't see any conection between the tree and the floor. Better pick up the tree a few "meters" fromthe house (down), and make a little of effort drawing to resembles the tree grows from the grass. About the little trees (you said are bushes, but without leaves)... The trees (and the bushes) when are little does'nt seems fat bushes; are more thiner. Surely the aspect could be better if you add some leaves, is an efect easy to do with the Smudge tool. (paint shop pro, photoshop..)
Do a great leaves green surface; draw lines of different varietes of green, and later Smudge'm all; They create a kind of leave ilusion xD test it ;)
3d doesn't necessarily have anything to do shading or objects you add, it has alot to do with line angle. I would suggest doing some reading on perspective and drawing perspective. That should help.
Quote from: Alarconte on Mon 02/06/2008 05:22:05
is an efect easy to do with the Smudge tool.
Okay, please please don't touch the smudge tool! Looking at your first background with all the photoshop smudging and the lighting effects, it's really bad. Just because the tool is there, doesn't mean it NEEDS to be used. I even notice with your newest version how often you applied photoshop effects.
-the grass is the photoshop brush stamp
-the path and building have the Noise effect
-the door is a bunch of random blobs of brown with the motion blur at an extreme amount going vertical
-the tree looks like it was made with the finger paint tool or the darken tool
All these different effects just look really bad. You have this Paint approach to drawing with a heavy touch of poorly photoshop'd effects.
I'm not saying don't use photoshop effects ever. I use them all the time. Just try to keep it simple if you don't know how to use them (not that I'm saying I know the best techniques. it's just obvious you're over using them in this background).
All I'm saying is it's not a horrible background, it's only a crazy mess of different styles. Pixelized here, smudging there, gradients here, etc. Keep things as one style.
Also your characters legs are as tall as your door. You're going to be doing some massive scaling on those character sprites. One thing I've noticed is that character scaling looks like crap.
The character looks great, if only you would do your backgrounds with that pixelized style.
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Mon 02/06/2008 06:32:29
Quote from: Alarconte on Mon 02/06/2008 05:22:05
is an efect easy to do with the Smudge tool.
Okay, please please don't touch the smudge tool! Looking at your first background with all the photoshop smudging and the lighting effects, it's really bad. Just because the tool is there, doesn't mean it NEEDS to be used. I even notice with your newest version how often you applied photoshop effects.
-the grass is the photoshop brush stamp
-the path and building have the Noise effect
-the door is a bunch of random blobs of brown with the motion blur at an extreme amount going vertical
-the tree looks like it was made with the finger paint tool or the darken tool
All these different effects just look really bad. You have this Paint approach to drawing with a heavy touch of poorly photoshop'd effects.
I'm not saying don't use photoshop effects ever. I use them all the time. Just try to keep it simple if you don't know how to use them (not that I'm saying I know the best techniques. it's just obvious you're over using them in this background).
All I'm saying is it's not a horrible background, it's only a crazy mess of different styles. Pixelized here, smudging there, gradients here, etc. Keep things as one style.
Also your characters legs are as tall as your door. You're going to be doing some massive scaling on those character sprites. One thing I've noticed is that character scaling looks like crap.
The character looks great, if only you would do your backgrounds with that pixelized style.
1) You're right about the smudge tool, I didn't think it was a good idea as well.
2) I only used 'add noise', 'brush' and 'burn' tool.
3) The first background was done by ThatOneChick, not me
4) I think I should just clear all the colouring and go with JUST MS paint this time (although I like the fog I think I'll at least keep that.
You definitely have to add a roof. Even if you want a flat roof there has to be something on the top of the walls to protect them from rain.
http://www.flat-roof-repair.co.uk/ (http://www.flat-roof-repair.co.uk/) just googled an example.
You might also want to add some windows next to the door. Now it seems like there is nothing in the basement.
Finally I'd suggest not to mix styles. Your character looks very good, with a clean style. You should also use this clean style for your background so forget about smudge and noise tool.
I just added some pointers that you might want to consider for the re-hash.
(http://www.2dadventure.com/ags/hotelmyversionMyVer.png)
Vertigo, why limit yourself with paint...sure isn't the greatest program when it comes to backgrounds.
To make the house look less 2D, try showing it from a different angle than the straight-on frontal view.
Also try placing similarly sized objects at different scale throughout the environment to show perspective, in this example I added more bushes. The ones in front are larger than those on the side of the house.
I also tried adding some lighting to give the objects shape and make them look less like flat set-pieces (a problem in your old version is that you have a clearly defined light source, yet it doesn't affect the surroundings much). Shading the tree and changing its hue also helped set it apart from the facade of the building. The brown tone of the tree and the red of the house where a bit too close in tonal value.
I LOVE Your edit Garage Gothic; I'm taking tips into account.
Still working on this, but what do you guys think?
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/hotelmyversion-1.png)
I'll be putting in highlights and shadows LATER (if you can point out where and how I can put them, please DO)
Still not sure if I should add leaves to the tree...
I should add some bushes much closer to the foreground and maybe a few pebbles?
The problem now is that you have no space behind that door, because your house does not have enough depth.
Yea.....it looks much much better, but cobra is right, it just looks the building has a door that leads nowhere. Make the side of the building longer and you should be set.
GarageGothic showed, what great an improvement a change in perspective can be. You also did a good job on lighting the scenery. Great.
@vertigoaddict: Your latest version is a great improvement. I suggest giving the BG more contrast. The "Hotel"-sign is barely readable, and the colour inside the door resembles the colour of the door too much.
I also agree on the depth thing.
cheers / nihilyst
Big big improvement with the strictly MS-Paint look.
Since it's night, I would darken the red color of the building.
Perhaps a canopy over the door.
I also liked your windows with no lights on inside, being as dark as they were in the first background. Since it's night time, your colors are a touch too bright.
Ah, big improvement! Just make the hotel sign better readable and you're almost done!
But now it looks nothing like the original building anymore...
Quote from: S on Wed 04/06/2008 10:37:31
But now it looks nothing like the original building anymore...
Don't worry, it'll fit in the game's story. *trust me*
Besides, we can always assume they added expansions to the hotel.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/hotelmyversion-2.png)
Anything else I can work on this background?
I was thinking. Do you think it's safe to use photoshop for the shadows and highlights? or should I, again, stick to pixel art for that?
I'd recommend to add some roots extending behind the tree and not just in front. I'm not sure if it's visible in the edit I did earlier, but I tried to add some to make the tree feel more grounded. Also, the steps/ramp (if they're steps, they're very small) to the front door look weird. Are they cut into the larger "step" or do they extend from it? They have no perspective. If they are indeed steps, I think you should reduce them to a single one in-between the ground and the door plateau. Otherwise they are tiny compared to everything else.
BTW, I love the work you did on the bush. I look forward to see the background after you fix the lighting.
Edit: For the lighting, don't use photoshop filters and avoid effects such as lens flare like the plague. But photoshop itself should be fine, since it allows you to use a different layer just for lightning. Use only a few different tones for the lighting (maybe even reduce/dither the colors by indexing them) and it shouldn't look out of place. Avoid gradient fill unless you reduce the number of tones afterwards.
And as for pslim's comment on the lamp over the door, of course it needs to cast some light, but I figured that was part of the lighting you were going to add later.
I think the bush looks great too.
But I'm surprised nobody's mentioned that now you have a light source over the door but the whole area is in shadow.
'kay I've finally come around to adding lighting and shadows, what'cha thinks?
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/hotelmyversionchoosethisone.png)
Also I've (re-)done another background, the apartment room of two guys (one 'playable' character). There will be cluster on the table. I was wondering if there's anything else I could improve/add; just like the background before, lighting and shadows will come later.
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/re-do.png)
Credits to the original artist goes to Joze Luiz, he was too busy to complete it, so I did.
The original concept:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y271/dagaran/bg17aa.png)
That's a really neat idea for a room... I like it a lot.
The room looks better, but you completely ruined the building bg with that bloom... IMO you should stick to the more pixelly way.
I am HONESTLY hoping someone would tell me they liked the lighting/ shadow work I did on the building; I know. I know, this is the critics lounge.
I like it because it creates this creepy (almost alien-like) atmosphere; I love the shadow work I did on the windows and pipes. I love the little tiny details that I put, like the farm (windmill) and church of the town in the background. the silhouette of the rooms in the windows and even my user name is there somewhere. How, when you look at the shadow of the tree for a long time, you start to make out the shape of a man (maybe I just have an over-active imagination?)
I worked hard on that background, I'm not used to doing high-res or using photoshop for backgrounds, I'll wait a while and if more people say I should change it, then I will.
I thought your version was way too bright so I've tried to make it more moody:
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2395/vaeditbv0.jpg)
I do like the little details. They should be extra cool in game.
I like the work you did, and i think bucketheads added to it by darkening it a bit. I have a few crits to add.
1. I think the tree could be a bit more ominous. Something like the the following could be added. Could also use some more smaller branches and detailing.
(http://www.funnyville.com/funny-pictures/weirdtree.jpg)
2. The windows with the lights on should still show some hint of curtains being there.
3. The bricks and a other elements of the hotel could use some aging and lose some of their 'perfectness'; especially the window sills, & pipes. Also some ivy clinging to the sides and fronts would really add to a lived in appearance.
4. Perhaps add some pots with a plant/small tree to either side of the door. And darken the grass on the right rear of the house (the area that is along the edge of the building).
Its looking pretty good now (and zen, that's one scary tree). But I have to say, surely you'd be able to see more detail on the windows that are lit than on those that aren't. As it is there are hints of curtain, room details in the unlit rooms that one wouldn't be able to make out IRL.
There's a photoshop effect called radiance try finding it at google and download it and use it there and fade it a little.