I was online the other day having a conversation with a group of people, most of whom were still in their teens. We got on the topic of games and as they listed off their most favorite games and the like, both old and new, I realized that the games they considered old were from early 2000 at best. So I asked them: Do you have a favorite adventure game? To my shock they asked, "What is an adventure game?".
I know adventure games do not have the fan base like the use to have. It is a very niche genre as of late. But I was still surprised that there are gamers out there who have not even heard of an adventure game. The group of teenagers I conversed with thought an adventure game was, well I don't really want to repeat what they thought they were.
It got me thinking, is there more we can do to educate, if you will, the younger generations on the joys of adventure games? I'm not talking about some of the more modernized adventure games either, filled with eye candy galore and missing the finer points of what adventure games have such as good characters, stories, challenging puzzles that required more than just pixel hunting, and the like.
Are we, not just as fans but aspiring developers, doing what we can to help in this matter? You must excuse me, if you will, for the comment I got from that discussion got me thinking and mostly got me remembering the golden years of adventure games. Sometimes fads come back into style and one day I hope this is true for adventure games as well.
Please forgive me if this post is not as structured as I would like. It has been quite some time since I last posted on these forums. Thank you.
- Grav
I know what you mean, man.
I'm in the first year of uni with a bunch of 18/19 year-olds... most of them are bigger gamers than me... I don't even have a current gen console. They know all about the latest Half-life clones and they've all played GTA4, guitar Hero, Left 4 Dead, and they all own PCs with stupid amounts of RAM and terrabytes worth of disk space for playing the fastest games with the smoothest graphics... I only heard the word 'terrabyte' for the first time about 6 months ago.
Yet, often, whenever I mention the phrase 'Adventure Game', these people will either look at me blankly, or pretend they didn't hear me. Sometimes saying 'Monkey Island' might put things into perspective for them, but that doesn't always work... And if I use the phrase 'point and click' they think I'm talking about Real-Time-Strategy games, which I detest.
This is unfortunate because a great deal of my friends (including myself) grew up on adventure games. We are in that young generation and can't imagine childhood without FoA or MI. I do play a great deal of modern games now but I guess adventure gaming isn't for everyone. I will probably get my kids playing the classics when they are growing up. Better them using logic and intelligence rather than shooting their friends in FPS'. What kind of objective is 'getting the most kills?'
Quote from: Gravity on Sat 24/01/2009 01:14:08
It got me thinking, is there more we can do to educate, if you will, the younger generations on the joys of adventure games? I'm not talking about some of the more modernized adventure games either, filled with eye candy galore and missing the finer points of what adventure games have such as good characters, stories, challenging puzzles that required more than just pixel hunting, and the like.
It is a good question. What IS an adventure game? Is it defined simply as what you said there (good characters, stories and challenging puzzles)? Is the Castle/Island of Dr. Brain an adventure game, then? What about Myst? What about Gobliiins? What if you played the fists path in Indiana Jones & FoA? What about Alone in the Dark? What about Another World or Flashback? Or Psychonauts? Or Deus Ex?
If you ask me, what made adventure games special has been taken and applied to most other types of video games now.
Most games attempt to have some semblance of a story now, with some nice, thought-out characters, and they even include a random puzzle here and there to interspace the action.
If you want to create an old-style 'pure' :D adventure game for those of us who enjoy non-fastpaced gameplay that concentrates more on story/character building, involved dialogue, puzzles, thinkery and exploration rather than on action, make it yourself, or pitch your idea to some game developer. But be warned, you'd definitely need to have a lot of that eye-candy to make it accessible to most of the public- if that how you want to educate them.
Quote from: Babar on Sat 24/01/2009 12:18:23
But be warned, you'd definitely need to have a lot of that eye-candy to make it accessible to most of the public- if that how you want to educate them.
By this, what Babar
actually meant to say was to put tons of boobs and explosions in there, and also slow motion action scenes with motion captured stunts.
Hey, it worked for Fahrenheit: Indigo Prophecy ;D
I'm still wondering how that guy managed to sex up the girl despite the fact that he was
Spoiler
clinically dead (and probably part cyborg) by that point.
Quote from: Akatosh on Sat 24/01/2009 13:47:02
I'm still wondering how that guy managed to sex up the girl despite the fact that he was
Spoiler
clinically dead (and probably part cyborg) by that point.
That was actually my favorite part!
I sat there going:
Spoiler
OMG NECRO LOVE :D :D :D :D :D
AND THEN
Spoiler
he MARRIES her and gets her pregnant, and he knows everything! What a fantastic way to end a game! "I died, but was rebuilt to be a zombie robot and now I know everything and have a family at last!"
I repeat:
What a
fantastic way to end the game ;D
All gaming magazines predict console games taking over PC gaming, big time.
While consoles being cheaper, not needing upgrading and being generally more comfortable to use, I have a big problem with that.
Point is - consoles do not need brains to use.
Also, nor do games for consoles.
Gaming is getting more and more unintelligent, especially since you cannot control RTS or adventure game or even tycoon-simulation-style game with gamepad, and mice on consoles will never get popular. Also, alternative controllers do not really happen, atleast there's no trace of them.
So, out of 100 new released games, 90 are about shooting and/or killing something (don't believe me? visit new releases list on random gaming site, such as gamespot). Anything requiring more than three brain cells will not happen.
Also, even on PC, Flash has taken over big time, going for handheld'ish simplicity...
That's the curse of consoles.
That's the cause of retardation of games.
That's why - when PC gaming really dies on one sad day, no-one will remember adventure games.
I don't think consoles will eliminate PCs for gaming any time soon, and I'm not just talking about casual gaming (flash?) either. This is for the very reason you pointed out- you can't really upgrade them. If every two or three years the same company releases a newer, next generation of their console, to stay up with games, a person would have to buy them every time. At least with the PC it is standard (until some company comes up with an upgradeable console. That'd be awesome :D).
Quote from: Ben304 on Sat 24/01/2009 12:50:48
By this, what Babar actually meant to say was to put tons of boobs and explosions in there, and also slow motion action scenes with motion captured stunts.
Totally wrong, you need to put in tons of
stunts and
explosions in there, and also slow motion action scenes with motion captured
boobs. ;D
Quote from: Ghost on Sat 24/01/2009 15:30:51
Quote from: Ben304 on Sat 24/01/2009 12:50:48
By this, what Babar actually meant to say was to put tons of boobs and explosions in there, and also slow motion action scenes with motion captured stunts.
Totally wrong, you need to put in tons of stunts and explosions in there, and also slow motion action scenes with motion captured boobs. ;D
This here is exactly why I consider you a mentor ;D
I am willing to learn, master!
Quote from: Babar on Sat 24/01/2009 15:23:29
If every two or three years the same company releases a newer, next generation of their console, to stay up with games, a person would have to buy them every time.
"A console costs $300-400 dollars and is good for 5 years, more or less. (Much more, in the case of PS2.) A gaming PC costs over a thousand and you start to have trouble keeping up with new games after about a year, barring constant hardware updates."
- Why PC games no longer sell (http://zeus.mirtna.org/blog/2008/05/why-pc-games-no-longer-sell-hint-its.html)
Yes, but there are no more games being made for my SNES. Or my Sega. Or even any good ones for the PS or PS2, really. Or the Gamecube.
Quote from: Babar on Sat 24/01/2009 17:18:19
Yes, but there are no more games being made for my SNES. Or my Sega.
And there are also no more games being made that'll run on a 16kb machine with a 5¼ floppy drive.
Quote from: Babar on Sat 24/01/2009 17:18:19
Or even any good ones for the PS or PS2, really.
Whether they're any good or not is entirely subjective.
You could also claim that there are no good games that will run on a 5 year old PC.
I just don't see the distinction between upgrading everything in a PC but the tower, and getting a whole new machine.
QuoteYes, but there are no more games being made for my SNES. Or my Sega.
Actually, a Genesis game was released in 2006. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_Prince)
Furthermore, people play adventure games all the time. Metroid and Zelda are examples of this. Sure, they're not point-and-click, but they still meet the basic description of an adventure game. The problem is that people don't even think of them as adventure games, they think of them as shooters and RPGs, respectively. Most people seem to think that any "adventure game" is a Myst clone.
Quote from: Anteater on Sat 24/01/2009 17:32:35
Actually, a Genesis game was released in 2006. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beggar_Prince)
Actually, in some way I was a bit related to the team who released this game. :=
There are many games not classified as adventure games that still have many adventure game like features. Truth be told, out of all these new games (while some are quite enjoyable) I am still drawn to games produced in the 1980's and 90's. Some of my favorite games are dos related. Few games today can combine all the elements into one making a good, re-playable game. Take Fallout 3 for example. Though primarily a shooter/rpg it is very much like an adventure game to a point. There are many examples and not enough time to go into details on each and everyone.
Adventure Games do not need the latest graphics incorporated into them. Warranted that many people these days are put off by any game that does not have the latest and greatest graphics even if the game play consists of nothing more than killing and blowing things up. Don't get me wrong, I love taking a hour or so break and just having a blast but I miss games that require thinking as well.
Mass Effect, while some hate it and others love it, did an overall if not cliched job. Believable characters with a good amount of dialogue. It was not, however, a true adventure game. But I still enjoyed it.
To understand the future you must understand the past, or something like that. I'm not saying adventure games must return to their roots but build on the foundation from which they began. I will play a game even if it has a few static images and nothing but stats as long as it is fun.
I, however, can not comment as far as the devolopment aspects go. I first discovered Ags back when it was Ac and only four or five people were registered on the forums. It has been ten years (or has it been longer) since that day and I've not made one single game using the program.
Games these days, sadly enough, are marketing tools used for profit. Few companies make games (big time companies anyway) that make the game because they want to and think it will be fun instead of just pushing out the next title for that extra $50 or more dollars.
I think that a good many gamers these days have simply lost their ability to sit through a game that requires a lot of reading and thinking. Sure there are strategy games among other genres that require some thought to complete but it is different for me. Out of all the game genres I never get that same sense of accomplishment from beating them as I did with a really good adventure game. Could just be me. Peace.
- Grav
Time's best thing to prove my point. Come back to this thread after a year.
Quote from: Stupot on Sat 24/01/2009 02:36:15
I'm in the first year of uni with a bunch of 18/19 year-olds... most of them are bigger gamers than me... I don't even have a current gen console. They know all about the latest Half-life clones and they've all played GTA4, guitar Hero, Left 4 Dead, and they all own PCs with stupid amounts of RAM and terrabytes worth of disk space for playing the fastest games with the smoothest graphics... I only heard the word 'terrabyte' for the first time about 6 months ago.
Yet, often, whenever I mention the phrase 'Adventure Game', these people will either look at me blankly, or pretend they didn't hear me. Sometimes saying 'Monkey Island' might put things into perspective for them, but that doesn't always work... And if I use the phrase 'point and click' they think I'm talking about Real-Time-Strategy games, which I detest.
But the thing is, the only reason that most of us got into adventure games is that they were the "in thing" when we were kids. If I was 10 years younger, I'd have probably grown up playing games like Quake and Halo, and I wouldn't really be interested in some quaint "adventure game".
Trying to explain the virtues of adventure games to teenagers nowadays is like trying to convince them that it's cool to wear flares, and that the Pet Shop Boys and Michael Jackson are the sort of music they should be listening to ... you just look old and out of touch. Times move on, but we don't have to!
I was actually surprised at the number of people who knew about old adventure games when the subject of game-making came up. I mean, since I automatically expect no one in this modern age of gaming to have heard of them.
Somehow, someone once asked me "You made a video game?" and "What kind?" Then I start talking about some extinct genre called "point n' click adventures." I've been thrown back more positive responses than I've ever expected, as it turns out quite a few people have actually played games like Fate of Atlantis, or one of the Monkey Islands, even if the fanbase isn't that active.
But then again these were like 20-24 year olds.
Yeah, of the (non-family) people I know, at least 5 are fond of adventure games (so much so that they wanted to exchange CDs with me to be able to play a few of the classics), and quite a few know about the games in a vague sort of way. Of course, I know some who don't even know what an RPG is....
I don't think adventure games need to be saved. Adventure games are quite possibly as alive as they will ever be. You can run SCUMMVM on pretty much anything, thanks to Telltale and other companies there are still some good adventure games being sold every years, adventure games took over the DS even if they are slightly more casual than the older ones, adventure games and interactive fiction are thriving on the indie scene... the sole thing that could make the adventure genre healthier than it is right now is if Telltale announced the production of Monkey Island 5 with the colaboration of Ron Gilbert.
If the genre doesn't seems as healthy as it was back in the days that's because the demographic changed. Adventure games and puzzles were popular back in the days because before the internet arrived only nerds owned computers. You had to like solving puzzles and brainteasers because getting a game to run in DOS was a puzzle in itself. Nowadays everyone and their moms own a computer, for the internet, drawing, chatting, work, school, video, music... the demographic changed and the market changed to suit this new demographic, and what was once one of the most popular genre has become a niche, but just because we are a smaller percentage, I don't think we are less numerous, and I don't think we need to spread the word or anything. At best you can make newer fans aware of the good old titles like Monkey Island, FOA and DOTT, and make older fans aware of indie adventure games and the better commercial titles of the recent years, but overall I think the genre is doing fine.
Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 24/01/2009 20:06:52But the thing is, the only reason that most of us got into adventure games is that they were the "in thing" when we were kids. If I was 10 years younger, I'd have probably grown up playing games like Quake and Halo, and I wouldn't really be interested in some quaint "adventure game".
You've got a good point - I remember trading adventure games (often lending boxed copies) with other kids in the schoolyard. Gaming on the PC
was pretty much adventure games, and maybe a few simulator games, because everything else was shoddy ports of arcade or Amiga games that never played well with keyboard controls.
But another important factor, at least for me, was that adventures were some of the most sophisticated games of their day. Not only did they offer a strong story element, usually in the most cinematic ways current technology would allow. They also gave you a full word to explore, and to interact with it in any way you could think of (thanks to the parser) instead of just shooting or punching your way through the levels. They offered arcade mini games, not because it was a requirement of the genre, but because the added gameplay variety and often fit quite well into an action-filled narrative. That those mini games sometimes were lacking was rather a result of the technology of the day, and they were rarely much worse than contemporary action games on the PC.
Keep in mind that Sierra was always at the technological forefront. They were quick to take advantage of EGA, Adlib sound cards and later Soundblaster, VGA, scanned hand drawn graphics, digitized photos and video, CD-ROM and Full Motion Video. Today's hardcore adventure players seem to be running them on 5 year old machines, and any game with high hardware requirements is immediately met with suspicion and resentment.
If Sierra had gone on producing their Quest series in their original spirit (not deviations such as KQ8) they would most likely be producing sandbox games and MMORPGs today. And you know what? I honestly believe that if this had been a fluid development, fans of the original series would most likely be loving those genres.
Think about Police Quest, a world in which you can drive around a whole city, explore selected interior locations, engage in car chases and shootouts, and even play a poker mini game. How is this any different from the recent GTA games? At least personally, I find that those games come much closer to realize the potential I saw in the adventure genre back in the late eighties, than today's guess-the-designer's-mind inventory clickfests.
Sadly, market realities of the industry meant that companies like Sierra and LucasArts stopped developing the always advancing adventure genre. A few years later, certain smaller game developers realized that there was money to be made in this niche genre without too large investments. So they started churning out pale replicas of what the adventure games these people so fondly remembered used to look like in the genre's heyday. And adventure fans, they keep buying these mediocre products out of spite that the rest of the world has moved on.
Edit: Also, can't we please get rid of this silly genre tag that keep us so isolated from the rest of the gaming world, on our own misty little island full of puzzles to bash our heads against? I mean, seriously, a body of widely disparate games rigidly defined by the name of a spelunking simulator from the mid-seventies? At least the term "Doom clone" only lasted until Quake came along. I hear that the term "story games" is being now used to describe a category of games deriving from the hidden-object genre. Sounds good to me, I honestly hope that this genre gradually takes on more adventure-like elements, perhaps bringing something new to refresh the stale conventions, and becomes a more widely known term for this type of game.
Funny that you say so CJ as I'm about 10 years younger than, I have played games like Quake and Halo and and I'm a fan of next gen games of today. But I still like the adventure game genre. It's simple and enjoyable for me. :)
to be 100% honest, I don't know anyone other than on the forum that knows what an adventure game is... :D