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Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cluey on Tue 18/01/2005 19:16:54

Title: Anime
Post by: Cluey on Tue 18/01/2005 19:16:54
Well, anyone who may have had the godlike delight of speaking to me on MSN may have descovered I'm starting to like anime, especially the films.

Start Article.

I saw Akira recently after taking a huge gamble and buying the DVD.  I'd seen a few Anime films before, notably Ghost in the Shell and Vampire Hunter D Bloodlust (I've descovered, these films take a lot of attention to understand the ending).  Well, I really enjoyed Akira, I thought sometimes the dub was painfully bad, even the new redub was pretty bad.

Alot of people say, after watching Pokemon, think the Japanese can't animate very well.  I used to think that, backgrounds would be static except for the central characters on many of the animes I saw.

After seeing my first REAL anime film, which was Ghost In The Shell.  My opinion changed.  I saw the intro, and the main characters hair flowing smoothly in the wind while the lights behind her wavered and moved, it was a far cry from the shit fed to those american kids and their UGO or Pokemon cards, it was art.  Even after seeing the 1988 Akira, it was much better than what I was used to.  Seeing the painstaking attention to detail of the backgrounds, then painted by hand, was something I paused the DVD a few times to take in (and sketch for my Art coursework).

It pisses me off more than anything when people see me drawing anime characters at school, or reading a manga, and saying something stupid like "Why you still into drawing Pokemon?" or "Why are you reading a kids comic?" when I'm reading Cowboy Bebop or something.

I think more people should be aware of how anime is much more than the badly dubbed, heavily marketed world of kids crazes.  Akira is a great film as I'm sure anyone whos seen it would agree, it raises so many issues relevant today (plus its ultravoilent) and has some amazing action scenes.  I'd urge you to at least see a recommended Anime film before criticising it, because thats what I used to do, and I missed out on alot.

So, I just wanted to know your opinions on Anime and Manga.

Internation Movie Database Links:

Akira
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094625/)

Ghost In The Shell
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113568/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9R2hvc3QgSW4gVGhlIFNoZWxsfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft=3;fm=1)

Vampire Hunter D
(http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0216651/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9VmFtcGlyZSBIdW50ZXIgRCBCbG9vZGx1c3R8aHRtbD0xfG5tPW9u;fc=1;ft=1)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: HillBilly on Tue 18/01/2005 19:32:52
I've watched everything from pokemon to sailor moon, love hina to dragonball, and I still haven't found anything I've liked. Still, I think it's stupid to say something like "I love/hate anime", because it can come in so many forms. It all depends on the creators, and not on the genre. Personally, I'm not too fund of the art style.  :-\ I guess I'm too much of a western cartoon Doug TenNapel kind of guy.

And everytime I state that opinion, people say I'm ignorant and "not able to relise the greatness of this Japanese art form". Heck, I'm cartoony, dammit!
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Tue 18/01/2005 19:37:22
My opinion? Since it became really popular in Occident, 95% of the anime sucks.

Of course, there will be people who will love it. Many people does like strawberries, but I don't. Nobody is right when tries to say "it scientifically is good/bad".
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Flippy_D on Tue 18/01/2005 19:47:59
Deyam, but did I hate Akira.

On the other hand, go watch Spirited Away. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0245429/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0wfHE9U3Bpcml0ZWQgQXdheXxodG1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=2;fm=1) Seriously.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: BMF-Inc on Tue 18/01/2005 19:53:15
I personally enjoy a few select works of anime, much the same as I enjoy certain select works from a certain genre of music. It really applies to the likes and dislikes of everything of mine; it must fit the mood I am in and strike a chord with me, be it stylistically, musically, or any other various ways. Personal ones I enjoyed have been:

1.Ghost in the Shell
2.Macross Plus (one of the greatest soundtracks I have ever heard in my entire life)
3.Golden Boy (best dubbed and dialogue I have ever heard from an anime)
4.R.O.D: Read or Die (a great artistic mesh of culture and time eras)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nine Toes on Tue 18/01/2005 20:27:03
I've only seen a handful of anime (if you don't count p0rn... :-\).

I like anime for the most part, but yeah, it is sometimes tough to understand exactly what's going on in some of them.

I've seen:
- Ghost in the Shell (not all of it, though).
- Lensman
- Spirited Away
- Armitage: The Third
- Vampire Hunter D

I didn't care for Vampire Hunter D at all.  Lensman was okay, but it was a long time ago, the last time I saw it.  Ghost in the Shell, Spirited Away, and Armitage are three that I would definetly recommend.

I've also seen various cartoons, such as Pokemon.

The only gripes I've got about anime are how the character's mouths don't always move with the character's speech.  The other gripe is how when I turn on Saturday morning cartoons, it's all anime nowadays.  Whatever happened to four hours of Bugs Bunny?  I like anime, but I like Bugs Bunny more.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Flippy_D on Tue 18/01/2005 20:49:39
"I like anime, but I like Bugs Bunny more."

That is SO quotable.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Las Naranjas on Tue 18/01/2005 22:36:09
As much as I like it, I don't think you can call GITS "Real Anime", since it was co-produced by Manga Entertainment [a British company], and subsequently was designed to sell in both Japanese and Western markets, which is one reason it lacks much of the signatures of most anime that wouldn't be recognised by many western viewers. Nonetheless, it's good. Watch the TV series as well, but do not read the manga. It sucks, as do people who like it who are called Kinoko.

Then just watch Ghibli films.

and Future Boy Conan.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: TheDude on Tue 18/01/2005 22:50:35
Next big anime = Naruto.

Wonderful Days - Amazing film technology wise (3D graphics), but only a decent movie, check it out anyway.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Pelican on Tue 18/01/2005 23:20:16
If you liked Spirited Away, watch Castle in the Sky (made by the same guy). Love that movie - I vaguely recall seeing it on ITV when I was a kid? So its a bit of a nostalgia trip too.

Personally I just see anime as another genre. Some of it I like, and some I don't (IMO, most of the Manga stuff is a bit pants). I think I probably like some of it, because they can have such imaginative storylines without going mad with special effects. Its a more flexible medium?
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Cluey on Tue 18/01/2005 23:27:52
Yeah, I see the points, and I'd agree that alot off anime really sucks, it's just repititions of something thats been done before.  Haven't seen the original Vampire Hunter D, as I'm told the animation is terrible and the sequel is better.

I suppose people are wrong to say that anime is totally untouchable as a medium because its not, alot of it is very flawed, but when it gets good, its very good.

A great series I saw in Japanese with subs was Last Exile, I thought it was a great breath of fresh air, and for a series it didn't drag on and the animation was excellent

Naruto is good, but I see it being dragged on like Pokemon, plus the manga comic is better, much better.

Did anyone notice the deep meaning in GITS when the "tank" shoots along that mural of the evolution tree and the bullets stop at the mankind, as if we weren't supposed to go higher, or do I need my pills?

Farlander, you dont like strawberries?  You are a bad bad man  :'(
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: SpacePirateCaine on Wed 19/01/2005 03:52:35
Living in Japan, I'm subjected to the best and worst that Anime has to offer. Personally, I don't really like to back it into a corner like most people do. Anime is just so diverse, just like animation from the rest of the world. In America, we have both crazy-ass stuff like Ren and Stimpy, and serious things like the Animatrix (Though admittedly this was heavily 'influenced' by the serious cartoons of Japan).

In Japan, one could even venture to say that the genres are even more diverse, with strange childrens' serieses like "Crayon Shin-chan" (http://www.shinchan-movie.com/) or "Daa! Daa! Daa!" (http://www.jcstaff.co.jp/sho-sai/da-shokai/da!.htm), all the way up to powerful Realistic serieses like "Berserk" (http://www.younganimal.com/berserk/) or "Jin-Roh" (http://www.jin-roh.net/), and - as Mr. Hyde mentioned, porn as well. Anybody that's seen my artwork (http://spacepiratecaine.deviantart.com) probably realises that 'anime' is a big part of my art form as well, but I in no way attempt to call it Anime or Manga except in the fact that the comic I write is written in Japan, in Japanese. The style is simplified, which was a convention that many contend was concieved of by Atom-Boy/Black Jack creator Tezuka Osamu, and though prolific in the Japanese cartoon scene, it is by no means the be-all and end-all deciding factor of Japanese animation.

I'm a fan of all animation. I'm also a cartoonist by trade, so I suppose that makes sense. I just don't think we need to pigeonhole Anime, it'd be like saying 'I don't like movies made in the USA' - doesn't work.

I'd like to also add that anything made by Studio Ghibli is worth a watch, in my humble opinion, aside from Spirited Away, they were also the ones who created "My neighbor Totoro", "Castle in the sky" (Mentioned by Pelican), "Porco Rosso", the recently released "Howl's Moving Castle" and many, many others. Don't watch it because you "like anime", watch it because it's just good animation and storytelling.

Edit:
QuoteIn America, we have both crazy-ass stuff like Ren and Stimpy, and serious things like...
Whoops, didn't actually mean to leave a quotable like that, I was just going to try and think of something that would serve to get my point across and left it so I could finish working my thoughts out. Honestly. My bad.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: on Wed 19/01/2005 05:26:25
I certainly won't watch a flick just because it is anime but I do enjoy a bit of it. I tend to dislike stuff that tends towards the chibi-style characters and can't stand it when a plot line sounds like it was written by middle school children.

Personal picks (at least those that haven't been mentioned more than once): Jin Roh and Grave of the Fireflies (Miyazaki).  I liked GITS but the second one was rather disappointing, it was much more dialogue-intensive and very pseudo-intellectual without exploring any interesting issues with any vigor.  The GITS series is far superior (IMO) to the second movie.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Peter Thomas on Wed 19/01/2005 05:29:45
Quote from: SpacePirateCaine on Wed 19/01/2005 03:52:35
In America, we have both crazy-ass stuff like Ren and Stimpy, and serious things like....


Yeah, I couldn't think of any either....

now THAT is quotable. Because I just did....
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Las Naranjas on Wed 19/01/2005 06:28:26
Fireflies was Tatahaka, Miyazaki was making Tonari no Totoro whilst Fireflies was being made. Same company though.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Blackthorne on Wed 19/01/2005 07:05:10
I've liked one Anime film I've seen:  The Professional: Golgo 13.  It was a good watch.....

Wait, I lied.  I liked Spirited Away too.

I just think Anime fan-boys ruin it all.

Bt
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: sedriss on Wed 19/01/2005 07:29:34
Great Teacher Onizuka all the way.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Wed 19/01/2005 10:59:26
I've seen too many to remember. But here are some good ones.
Not so good ones.These will make you kill yourself.

Click on the link (http://www.animesuki.com/series.php) in my signature for the newest anime. You download them using bitTorrent.
Free, no p0rn, legal and translated very good (they even describe the food).
Alot of them are girly and boring, but some (like bleach) are very good.
If a serie becomes licenced in the USA, they remove them instantly.

There is such a variety in anime, that there is something out there for everbody.
Saying that you don't like anime is like saying that you don't like magezines.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Wed 19/01/2005 14:16:18
Legal, Jet X.L.? I beg to differ.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Wed 19/01/2005 14:46:56
Quote from: Esseb on Wed 19/01/2005 14:16:18
Legal, Jet X.L.? I beg to differ.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since there is no licence outside Japan, you can distibute it outside Japan as long as it's free. The product isn't SOLD.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 15:00:02
It's a common misconception that downloading anime that hasn't been released in your country is legal. It's still illegal, but with some loopholes. To back up Esseb's comment, I urge you to read this:

http://www.auphanonline.com/articles/view.php?article_id=1423

So Esseb is right.

EDIT: And aside from the loopholed anime, I also spot a few titles on the list that are sold internationally, like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Sailor Moon. It's illegal. Deal with it.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Wed 19/01/2005 16:13:21
I am not an expert in laws, but saying that you can distribute or dowload something that hasn't been released in your country seems to go against all logic. I mean... In many countries most of the premieres of importants films are made months after the premiere in the original state, let's say, New Zealand... Would be considered legal to download a film of, let's say, the Lord of the Rings, because it hasn't been released yet in Spain?

In my opinion nobody sane would have felt like doing something legal for dowloading a pirate copy of the Lords of the Rings, stolen of Peter Jackson's desk, before the premiere here...

Which is the excuse for Manga? That those manga series have been released a lot of time before in their original countries and they've lost the "right" to be distributed more later? So, must the distributor make a "Simultaneous world premiere" to keep its rights about those series? I am not sure about Japanese laws, but I am tired of seeing "The owner of the copyright has the rights of "insert series/characters here" in and out the United States", I guess it must happen the same with the Japs.

That's my logic... It may have nothing to see with the real world  ;D, for that you'll have to read DG's link, but I am lazy today for that...  :)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 16:17:49
READ THE DAMN LINK ANYWAY, YOU LAZY BUGGER!!!
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Haddas on Wed 19/01/2005 16:29:59
I love Naruto. Sure, it's kinda silly at times, but there's a fanbase for everything

EDIT: I love living in Finland...
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Adamski on Wed 19/01/2005 16:41:33
I've never really been able to get into anime. I've tried watching various 'well known' titles and they've all made the skin try to crawl off my body in embarrasment. I guess I lose.

I've seen Spirited Away though, which I'd rate as one of my favourite films ever. Does that count? I've always had the impression that saying "Spirited Away, I love that film!" will result in hundereds of hardcore anime devotees all groaning and shaking their heads and recommending a million titles that are supposedly much better (yet will probably trigger the aformentioned skin-crawling condition)...
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Wed 19/01/2005 16:55:54
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 16:17:49
READ THE DAMN LINK ANYWAY, YOU LAZY BUGGER!!!

:o  :o  :o
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Wed 19/01/2005 18:43:30
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 15:00:02
...I also spot a few titles on the list that are sold internationally, like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Sailor Moon. It's illegal. Deal with it.

Talking about "LAZY BUGGER!!!" who dont "READ THE DAMN LINK"

Quote from animesuki
Quote
....Please note that this is the first series of Yu-Gi-Oh!, which has never been licensed. 4Kids has announced not license and air this first series on TV, presumably due to the content (which is supposedly a bit violent)...

...The first two seasons (Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R) are no longer licensed according to ADV's website.
Seasons three and four (Sailor Moon S and SuperS) have been licensed by Geneon Entertainment.
The fifth season (Sailor Stars) has not yet been licensed. Considering the transgendered nature of its new characters, it probably never will be....
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Flippy_D on Wed 19/01/2005 18:46:51
Agreed. Evangelion really is annoying. Maybe it's bad translation, but after the first few episodes it just goes downhill. A lot of pseudo-philisophical material and too many unanswered questions with too little to help clarify.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: viktor on Wed 19/01/2005 19:10:38
Hy. I'm no anime movies expert. But I realy love to read the comics. A few years back I realy liked Dragon Ball. Then I saw the german translated versions on RTL2. They were fantastic. The only crap is I got hooked. Waited for the next series (GT) to come but they newer did. Man was I disapointed. I hate it when a TV company buys licens for stuf and they don't buy the whole thing.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Wed 19/01/2005 20:51:36
Jet X.L.: DG's main point was not that Sailor Moon was licensed. While I'm not particularly interested in carrying on this discussion, it would be nice if you at least acknowledged our point.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 23:43:53
Quote from: Jet X.L. on Wed 19/01/2005 18:43:30
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 15:00:02
...I also spot a few titles on the list that are sold internationally, like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Sailor Moon. It's illegal. Deal with it.

Talking about "LAZY BUGGER!!!" who dont "READ THE DAMN LINK"

Quote from animesuki
Quote
....Please note that this is the first series of Yu-Gi-Oh!, which has never been licensed. 4Kids has announced not license and air this first series on TV, presumably due to the content (which is supposedly a bit violent)...

...The first two seasons (Sailor Moon and Sailor Moon R) are no longer licensed according to ADV's website.
Seasons three and four (Sailor Moon S and SuperS) have been licensed by Geneon Entertainment.
The fifth season (Sailor Stars) has not yet been licensed. Considering the transgendered nature of its new characters, it probably never will be....

Well, since you didn't actually link to that blurb in your signature (Was it from the FAQ or something else? I don't know. You don't even say.) how can you expect me to read it before you accuse me of being a lazy bugger? It's like a teacher telling you to study page 45 of a textbook and then giving a test for page 76. I mean, I don't go reading through an entire site just because I want to prove a minor point in an argument. Your the one pimping the site, so why don't you provide adequate links?

And even then, the blurb you posted doesn't render my main argument invalid, which is:

DOWNLOADING THE ANIME ON YOUR LIST IS STILL ILLEGAL

And you've said nothing that proves me incorrect. So think about that before you accuse me of being a lazy bugger. In fact, you're the lazy bugger cause:

a) You didn't even bother to post a link along with the blurb you wrote and you automatically assume I'm supposed to know everything about that site despite the fact that you're the one linking to it in the first place.
b) More importantly, you automatically assume downloading anime is legal without actually checking things out. At least I checked things out. You did squat!

In conclusion, you're an even lazier bugger than Farlander. And with Farlander I was joking. With you, I'm serious.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Wed 19/01/2005 23:51:31
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 19/01/2005 23:43:53
And with Farlander I was joking.

/me dances

  :D  :D  :D
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 00:02:48
Ah, you know I can't get mad at you, you adorable Spaniard you!
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 00:12:39
At least, not after the peace treaty and the declaration of love!Ã,  :D

(http://www.fantasyjackpalance.com/fjp/photos/fjp-dead/catsdogs/big/cat-i-love-you.jpg)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 00:25:49
In the spirit of this thread, I award your kitty the highest honour:

(http://www.usagiandmamorusuniverse.com/files/kawaii.gif)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Sylpher on Thu 20/01/2005 02:11:49
Not that the gen-gen is famous for provoking thought, but I am pretty sure a thread that could hold an interesting discussion on an art medium that is fairly misunderstood has failed. Anime has its fair share of downfalls, but this is nothing but half explained opinions, kittens, small legal debate and favorite movie pimping. Could we at least show the art form a little respect.. whether you like or dislike it?

Starting with just flat out killing this thread..

Edit. Not that Cluey did a very good job initiating a conversation, but still.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 02:22:08
We was just having fun.  OMG DOANT BE SO BAKA!!1 :'(

Alright, I'll put it back on track...

Anyone seen Tokyo Godfathers? That was a great anime. A very wonderful story. If it was choice among Three Men and a Baby, Ice Age, and Tokyo Godfathers, I'd choose Tokyo Godfathers. It challenges the notion of parenting better than the previous two.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 07:55:01
The problem is that the world "ANIME" is so vast that we can't really discuss about it, face it... Do you imagine a thread called "Hollywood"? What should we do to discuss about the average quality of the films made in "Hollywood"? Syablish a scientific method to mesure the quality of the films, see the thousand films they make every year and apply the formula? That's not practical. Some anime is good, some is average and some is bad, end of discussion.

And downloading things under copyright license is illegal... final dot!
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Thu 20/01/2005 12:37:49
I, for one, would like to continue the discussion, because you made me very curious if it is legal or not.
About this article (http://www.auphanonline.com/articles/view.php?article_id=1423), DG.
The first paragraph sais "Yes, it is illegal!". That is very clear. But the rest of the text doesn't show any real law cases. In fact, the article shows examples when it's not illegal. The article doesn't refer to ANY lawbooks, and is written in a desperate way to be funny. Hahaha, Yakuza Corporation, what will he think up next, hohoho[/sarcastic].
Another thing: I've seen the film Lords Of The Flies, but don't know anything else about it. I do know that American Publishers got rich of The Lord Of The Rings book, and that Tolkien didn't got a dime because of the Brittish copyrights only aplied inside Britain at the time. Could it be that the writer mixed up the books in his example? I wonder...
Do I believe this comedian-wannabe, or the 245+ (http://www.animesuki.com/group.php) anime-fansub groups who NEVER been prosecuted for distributing un-lisenced fan-subs. I'll take the latter.

Anyway, DG, if you show me law cases were anime fansubbers did got prosecuted because they were distributing un-lisenced anime and had their server in Holland (or Germany, or America, or Australia where for some reason LSL8 is illegal), then I wil switch sides faster that a burger at Burgerking.

-that is all.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 12:43:09
But in DG's article, (the few I've read, I am not a complete lazy bugger) says it is legal, bur unlikely prosecuted...

So, if you bet DG to look for examples of prosecuted for distributing Anime you're using a trick...

But well... he's smart enough to see that by himself, so...

/me goes to make a sandwich...
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Thu 20/01/2005 12:47:12
So it's illegal, but you can't get prosecuted?
Tarzan not understand.

EDIT after Farl's post:
There are websites that hosted movies (like spider-man 2) who DID got their ass sued.
By the company that holds the rights.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 12:53:41
Ok, I will try to explain... in an easy way...

There are homicides, rapes, violations, assessinations, bombs to deactivate...

Justice have no time to prosecute teenagers who do not want to pay for Anime.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Thu 20/01/2005 15:23:50
Downloading and offering anime for download is illegal. The companies who own the licenses generally look through the fingers because most fansub groups don't release anime that has been picked up by a company for release in the US, plus they probably play a very big part in ensuring anime is so popular. Unless lots of fansub groups suddenly start releasing anime picked up by a US company, there's probably not a great chance anyone will get prosecuted.

However, it is very much illegal, which was my point. I download anime myself, but at least I don't go around pretending I don't break any laws.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 15:40:29
Yeah, the main problem about this discussion is how useless it is, because, even proving that downloading Anime is illegal, I am sure that the people who deffends its legallity should go on downloading it...

Quote from: Jet X.L. on Thu 20/01/2005 12:47:12
EDIT after Farl's post:
There are websites that hosted movies (like spider-man 2) who DID got their ass sued.
By the company that holds the rights.

So... Tarzan undestands it's illegal? Does Tarzan understand that distributing things that are under license can be sued or prosecutd if the owner has enough power, or interest?

Which is Tarzan's position... Is it legal? It is but can't be prosecuted? Or it is illegal, since it's prosecuted?

No flip flop, please...
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 16:57:43
Jet, I can't believe you're so lazy that you're asking me to check this out for you. You should check this out yourself.

First of all: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/archives/news/old/012099B.php

And this was before any licensing.

So, pwnd, bitch!

Next, the article I posted before does cite legal references from international law. These references are coming directly from the laws themselves, so why would you need references from textbooks when you've got references to the laws themselves? If you had bothered to read the article properly, you'd see that.

For example, it cites the Berne Convention. Article 2 of the Berme Convention sets out the definition of a protected work, such as "cinematographic works to which are assimilated works expressed by a process analogous to cinematography" -- which is what anime is. Article 3 sets out the criteria, and I've read nothing that does not discount anime in that section. Article 5 sets out the rights, which include: "Authors shall enjoy... the rights which their respective laws do now or may hereafter grant to their nationals, as well as the rights specially granted by this Convention." As far as I'm aware, all anime is protected by Japanese law (the country of origin). What applies to Japan in regards to anime, applies to other countries according to the Berne Convention.

Here is the actual text of the Berne Convention:
http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/trtdocs_wo001.html

Here's a cut down version of the Berne Convention that focuses on specific parts we are discussing (useful for you, since I now how lazy you are not to go out and check this yourself):
http://www.wipo.int/enforcement/en/faq/international/faq01.html
http://www.wipo.int/enforcement/en/faq/international/faq02.html

Even though there are no specific court cases involving anime, that doesn't make it legal to download unlicensed anime. (Besides, I've still provided an example where a company has ask fansubbed to stop distribution. And why did the fansubbers stop? Because it is illegal and Sony was within their rights to threaten them with legal action). I mean, would you assume if hypothetically there were no civil cases involving copyright infringment restricted to just your country that it would be legel to infringe copyright despite the legislation put in place by your government? You see, just because there is no common law (i.e. law interpreted by judges, such as prior court cases), there's still statute law (i.e. law made by governments). To ask me to only cite court cases disregards an entire body of law, which is really stupid. I could just as well ask you provide an example of a court case where anime producers sued an anime distribution site and lost. There aren't any, just the same as there aren't any cases where producers have gone forth, sued, and won. But I can still quote statute law (as well as the link to the Sony legal threat). Thus, I don't need to strictly provide any common law basis when I can also quote statute law.

Let me put it another way: let's say I wrote an article and published it in a magazine in my home country, Australia. A German writer imports the Australian magazine with my article published and reads my article. He likes it so much that he decides to put his name on the article and sell it to a German magazine. They publish it. Now, are they allowed to publish it? No fucking way! It's my article! It was stolen! Can I prove it? You bet. The article was stolen word for word and mine was published before his was. Can I sue even though it was published in another country? Damn right! The Berne Convention affords me that right, even if I can't find another case as a pretext.

Here's the crunch: though, I can't cite a international copyright case involving anime (even though I don't need to, due to the statute laws and my example of a legal threat), I can cite cases where extraterritorial litigation has happened. For example, there's a famous defamation case called Gutnick vs Dow Jones. Dow Jones published an online article that made reference to Australian businesman Joseph Gutnick. The crux of the case revolved around whether the case could be brought to Australia from the US. The Australian High Court ruled that plaitiffs are allowed to sue for internet defamation irrespective of location. On November 15, 2004, Dow Jones settled the case and paid Gutnick $440,000 in fees and damages. While this example has nothing to do with copyright, it does show that extraterritorial litigation can happen. If Japanese anime producers wanted to sue online distributors, they'd be within their rights to do so under Japanese law. They haven't so far, but it doesn't mean they can't -- the means just hasn't been tested (Like I said, I'd like to see you provide an example of a court case where anime producers sued an anime distribution site and lost). But this shows that, while Japanese producers haven't sued, you can still do something illegal even if you're in another country. We're living in a world where boundries are being erroded on a daily basis. I can still do something in my country and get sued by someone else in another country.

Now, so far, I've quoted:
1) a case where a Japanese company asked fansubber to stop distributing an unlisensed anime title.
2) statue law
3) an example of internation law in action.

So far, you don't have anything that proves me wrong. All you have done is raised some criticism on the validity of the article I linked here, but you haven't given anything from a legitimate legal source that states, "Yes, downloading anime is legal." Where's your legal pretext? I've provided mine, so why don't you provide yours, instead of copying and pasting from only one mystical, unlinked FAQ that could have come from anywhere and then proceeding to call me lazy? Then again, I'd expect this from someone who can't understand the subtrext of Lord of the Flies and mistakes it for Lord of the Rings instead.


Some extra notes

Here's a quote from ADV producer David Williams: "I think it [fansubbing] can both hurt and help the industry. It can help the industry in some ways because it can help build awareness of the titles. It can also hurt the industry. I have a classic example that I've used quite often. We had a show that was fansubbed very heavily for the first part of the show but the last part wasn't. When that show was released in stores, the sales on the first part of that show were really low and the sales on the part that was not fansubbed, were really high. That's backwards from the way a normal sale works out. It normally starts out really high and then gets lower on the later volumes. So there's an example of where we can see that a lot of people that have seen the fansubs didn't buy the first part of it but they went out and bought the last part of it because it hasn't been fansubbed."

Here's another article on "unlicensed anime" being illegal: http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=954
I especially like the line that says, "In light of my limited knowledge of international copyright law, and my own common sense, it seems absolutely logical, rational and appropriate that the distribution of unlicensed anime is illegal. Anime is copyrighted in Japan, if not in North America also, and any distribution of copyrighted material without the express consent of the owner is theft."

Someone (though with no legal background) typed this handy FAQ of anime legality and ethics: http://members.tripod.com/~AvatarHR/legalfaq.html See Q2.22


I hope I have settled this matter once and for all, everyone. Now answer my question: Does anyone like Toyko Godfathers?
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 17:02:41
Quote from: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 16:57:43
I hope I have settled this matter once and for all, everyone. Now answer my question: Does anyone like Toyko Godfathers?

Sorry... my computer deleted the rest of the post accidentally... can you repeat it, please?
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 17:06:39
Oh, you are absolutely adorable!! Have a Larry:  :=
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 17:30:22
Thanks! So... And now, making a quick brief of  DG's post.. It says that for distributing Anime you can't use what in Spanish legal slang is called "Administrative silence".

Administrative silence is applied in some cases, and it means that "If you don't receive a negative, you must consider you petition accepted". That was for making some public burocracy more agile. All the laws which included the "administrative silence" are supossed to have a positive reply (Let's say, 95% of the cases)... So, it was easier for the administration to work in the cases denying the petition than the opposite.

The bad use of administrative silence, had made this legal form to fall into disgrace in the last revisits of the civil code. People (missunderstanding the law, or making a conscient bad use of it) just started to do the things without making the petition to it, because it was faily assumed that the administration was going to reply "yes".

What I see here is that you say somewhat that people providing anime is making use of "administrative silence", since they haven't been sued, or told not to go on with the activity.

That's a poor excuse since adminsitrative silence only works if you demmand permission to something. So, even assuming that laws concerning Anime allow to distribute them with administrative silence, you must prove that those WEBsites have demmanded permission to host and offer that Anime for download.

And I bet my balls they haven't.

So... Final summary (even "inserting" the old "administrative silence" form) of DG's post:

-You need to contact the owners of copyright of the Anime.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 18:32:47
The thing is that some people have been told they're not allow to provide unlicensed anime, as per my example of Sony with Ruroni Kenshin in 1999. But on the whole, most fansub distributors have been making use of "administrative silence".
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 18:54:51
Yeah, but in the way it sounds to me that they've making use of administrative silence in fraud, which is:

A) Using administrative silence in cases where the law says there in no administrative silence (I am not sure if administrative silence is used here...)

and

B) Not consulting and assuming that the permission is given without even asking for it. (I am ALMOST SURE none of those webs have mailed the onwers asking for permission...)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Thu 20/01/2005 19:33:06
Quote from: Farlander on Thu 20/01/2005 15:40:29
Yeah, the main problem about this discussion is how useless it is, because, even proving that downloading Anime is illegal, I am sure that the people who deffends its legallity should go on downloading it...

Quote from: Jet X.L. on Thu 20/01/2005 12:47:12
EDIT after Farl's post:
There are websites that hosted movies (like spider-man 2) who DID got their ass sued.
By the company that holds the rights.

So... Tarzan undestands it's illegal? Does Tarzan understand that distributing things that are under license can be sued or prosecutd if the owner has enough power, or interest?

Which is Tarzan's position... Is it legal? It is but can't be prosecuted? Or it is illegal, since it's prosecuted?

No flip flop, please...

It's legal.
I asked a friend who does busness law, and a co-worker who downloads indian movies.
They said the same thing. "It's legal."

I havn't seen tokio godfather because they don't sell much anime  in the Netherlands. :    (
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 19:41:36
Ok, if your buddy says it's legal, go on with it... As said, it's very unlikely that anybody is going to make anything to you...

At least, nothing worse than anime does!  ;D
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Thu 20/01/2005 19:49:34
Quote from: Jet X.L. on Thu 20/01/2005 19:33:06
It's legal.
I asked a friend who does busness law, and a co-worker who downloads indian movies.
They said the same thing. "It's legal."

I havn't seen tokio godfather because they don't sell much anime  in the Netherlands. :    (

And on what basis did your business law friend say it's legal? Which part of the law did he cite? C'mon, you've just asked me to provide cases, but you've provided zilch, buddy. Other than some mystical business law friend (who possibly lives with the Easter bunny) who just said "It's legal" without any basis.

Go on, back up your claims.

As for your friend who downloads Indian movies, I don't give much credit to him since he's technically doing something illegal and trying to justify it with imaginary loopholes, just like people who download anime.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 20:12:06
Ok... During this lapse of time I've consulted THREE people speciallised in laws.

a) Only distributors may distribute Copyrighted stuff.

b) No one who is not owner of the copyright can distribute copyrighted stuff.

c) If someone who is distributing copyrighted stuff is not denunciated, it incurrs into ALLEGALLITY. That's the majority of the cases of anime distributors who do not have permission to distribute.

d) If they're denounced, they incurr into illegallity, and they may face monetary or prison penalties.

Since I've been quite annoyed with this post, I am seriously thinking in denouncing http://www.animesuki.com/ for violating the international coryright laws... In that way we'd have a real sollution to the discussion we have here.

So, your signature is not just annoying, but also illegal! wow, we have a record here!  ;D
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Thu 20/01/2005 20:20:55
I always comes back back to that, huh farl.  :-\

B.t.w. linking to a site is not illegal.
Buha, in yo face, lawyer-wanabe.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Nacho on Thu 20/01/2005 23:16:50
I am not a lawyer wannabe... I am a person with a career which include several subjects about laws (Introduction to civil laws, introduction to commercial laws, Tax laws...) That, and my SENSE of logical tell me that distributing stuff under license is not legal. Anyway, the people who has informed me about the copyrighted stuff are not lawyers wannabes, they're JUST lawyers.

And yeah, your signature still annoys me. Surprised?
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Las Naranjas on Fri 21/01/2005 08:40:32
and now back to the real topic. I have Tokyo Godfathers but I am yet to see it.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Fri 21/01/2005 11:09:30
farl, hanging around lawyers doesn't make you a lawyer, but a lawyer groupie.
But enough talk about Tokyo Godfathers (http://anidb.ath.cx/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=animelist&adb.search=tokyo+godfathers).
Lest talk about Kasumi!
(http://www.combatrush.co.uk/images/gallery/falcoon/kasumi.jpg)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Cluey on Sat 22/01/2005 22:20:31
Whoa, this thread got into a bit of a moral battle no?

Anyway, Kasumi has large breasts, thats her only character trait :P

I want to see Kai Doh Maru, anyone here know it/can recommend it?

And has anyone here seen Last Exile?  It's so very, very underrated.  Hardly anyone talks about it anywhere, not even  on <shudder>Gaia<shudder> but I notice everyone jumps at the chance to talk about Inuyasha.

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=129  Hilarious.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Sun 23/01/2005 03:24:53
It's not a moral battle, it's about information. Jet X.L. is telling people that it's legal, we're telling people that it is not because we don't want people to have the wrong idea. Whether they download or not I don't mind.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Las Naranjas on Sun 23/01/2005 05:26:29
Especially considering we've all most likely done it. Like abandonware, you can easily argue that it's ethically fine, since no-one is losing out per se, but it's only fair that people know that they're breaking laws.

And if you go to animesuki, download FBC.

---edit---

http://www.animesuki.com/series.php/191.html go go go!
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Sun 23/01/2005 06:00:30
FBC is available on animesuki? Does that mean it's not been licensed? Shame.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Andail on Tue 25/01/2005 12:28:32
I don't like anime. A friend of mine keeps pitching Naruto, but I find it extremely boring. I also watched Battle Royale 2, and I more or less longed for death while seeing it. (Although Battle Royale one was pretty decent.)

For anyone who hasn't seen Naruto, here's a break down of an ordinary episode:

1. A good and a bad character stand before eachother in an arena, ready to engage in a fight. Fifteen minutes pass while people in the audience talk about why the two fighters hate eachother, and what their special abilities are, just to remind the viewers.
2. Here follows a scene for the girls: A young female friend of the good fighter remembers their childhood together, preferably on a flowery meadow. This is where the nostalgic emotions are slapped in the face of the viewers. There will be plenty of circular, plate-sized mouths, representing laughter.
3. The two fighters remind eachother and the audience why they hate eachother, and what their special abilities are.
4. Flashback to an episode where the bad guy killed the good guy's friend. This is where sadness will be conveyed to the audience. Even though characters die all the time, every death will be followed by endless scenes of girls crying, tears mixed with stars and more flashbacks to flowery meadows.
5. Fighter one uses his special ability. It can be something along the lines of "The ten tentacles of moon-shadow" or "The secret dragon's sand-castle-whirlwind-flute". Whatever the writers fancied in their state of puerile, stoned mindlessness.
6. The next episode is plugged, with the promise of revealing the outcome of the battle.
7. The episode ends. Listen to a japanese song full of shallow clichées "Trust in the love of a loving bird of freedom, etc"
8. Next episode; start from 1 again.

This is quite an accurate description of a Naruto episode. Feel free to spread it all over the internet, to save people from the same horrors I've endured.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Haddas on Tue 25/01/2005 13:01:13
Anything wrong with that?
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: DGMacphee on Tue 25/01/2005 14:19:36
I think I watched only one episode of Naruto, switched it off, then set the remaining episodes on fire.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Tue 25/01/2005 14:40:49
Andail: Don't watch Naruto or Battle Royale 2 then. You'll find that people who are desperate to make other people watch anime tend to, well, not have a very refined taste. (Not that BR2 is an anime)

That said, and in fear of my previous statment backfiring, trust me and Las Naranjas and give Future Boy Conan a shot. Unlike Naruto and some other popular contemporary series (Beyblade, Pokemon etc.) it has a story arc and an ending.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Cluey on Tue 25/01/2005 18:04:02
Quote from: Andail on Tue 25/01/2005 12:28:32
I don't like anime. A friend of mine keeps pitching Naruto, but I find it extremely boring. I also watched Battle Royale 2, and I more or less longed for death while seeing it. (Although Battle Royale one was pretty decent.)

For anyone who hasn't seen Naruto, here's a break down of an ordinary episode:

1. A good and a bad character stand before eachother in an arena, ready to engage in a fight. Fifteen minutes pass while people in the audience talk about why the two fighters hate eachother, and what their special abilities are, just to remind the viewers.
2. Here follows a scene for the girls: A young female friend of the good fighter remembers their childhood together, preferably on a flowery meadow. This is where the nostalgic emotions are slapped in the face of the viewers. There will be plenty of circular, plate-sized mouths, representing laughter.
3. The two fighters remind eachother and the audience why they hate eachother, and what their special abilities are.
4. Flashback to an episode where the bad guy killed the good guy's friend. This is where sadness will be conveyed to the audience. Even though characters die all the time, every death will be followed by endless scenes of girls crying, tears mixed with stars and more flashbacks to flowery meadows.
5. Fighter one uses his special ability. It can be something along the lines of "The ten tentacles of moon-shadow" or "The secret dragon's sand-castle-whirlwind-flute". Whatever the writers fancied in their state of puerile, stoned mindlessness.
6. The next episode is plugged, with the promise of revealing the outcome of the battle.
7. The episode ends. Listen to a japanese song full of shallow clichées "Trust in the love of a loving bird of freedom, etc"
8. Next episode; start from 1 again.

This is quite an accurate description of a Naruto episode. Feel free to spread it all over the internet, to save people from the same horrors I've endured.

LMAO I like Naruto, but  thats pretty spot on.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Blackthorne on Tue 25/01/2005 18:26:06
Very good 'script, Andail.

Bt
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: HillBilly on Tue 25/01/2005 19:44:38
Quote from: Andail on Tue 25/01/2005 12:28:32
I don't like anime. A friend of mine keeps pitching Naruto, but I find it extremely boring. I also watched Battle Royale 2, and I more or less longed for death while seeing it. (Although Battle Royale one was pretty decent.)

For anyone who hasn't seen Naruto, here's a break down of an ordinary episode:

1. A good and a bad character stand... etc etc

THANK YOU!

That was great, and gave me a good chuckle.

Remember Pearl Harbor!(Man, that was a crappy movie.)
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Esseb on Tue 01/02/2005 17:09:26
New developments related to this thread. (http://news.com.com/Anxious+times+in+the+cartoon+underground/2100-1026_3-5557177.html?part=rssag=5557177&subj=news.1026.5)

And this, on animesuki: http://www.animesuki.com/doc.php/legal/mediafactory.html

Edit: New and new. December it seems.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: HillBilly on Tue 01/02/2005 17:14:36
Yeah, that's what you get for loving anime.  :P
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: A�rendyll (formerly Yurina) on Fri 23/09/2005 16:58:21
Anime is so much-sided that it is useless to point out to Naruto only. I think that's a shame. Another example is Pokémon. In The Netherlands (my native country) a lot of people associate anime with Pokémon, which I really hate.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Cluey on Sat 24/09/2005 13:35:04
I'm Alive???

Talk about a bump...
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: jetxl on Sat 24/09/2005 22:06:12
Quote from: yurina on Fri 23/09/2005 16:58:21
Anime is so much-sided that it is useless to point out to Naruto only. I think that's a shame. Another example is Pokémon. In The Netherlands (my native country) a lot of people associate anime with Pokémon, which I really hate.

That would be a major step in the right direction compared to the dictionary (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anime).
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: esper on Sun 25/09/2005 08:20:36
@ Cluey: Kai Doh Maru is only good if you like the anime that is totally artistic and sacrifices story and action to make a philosophical point. I consider myself to be a deep, intellectual person, but I can't stand that artistic anime crap.

I would have to say that ALL anime is glorious: even anime that I hate, such as Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh. The reason I feel totally comfortable saying that is because the Japanese know their markets. We may see something like Pokemybutt, You-suck-oh, and other crap like that, and consider it to be just that (crap in it's highest, most unadulterated form) but look at American kids who eat it up to the extent that American stations, as has been mentioned earlier in this thread, play nothing BUT the shite anime on Saturday morning. It's no wonder, with stuff like "Loonatiks," or whatever it's called, where all the old Looney Toons characters are big beefy superheros, coming out by us. What we do come out with that works are all Anime ripoffs anyway.Ã,  Just watch the South Park episode "Chinpokomon."
Ã,  Ã, The only thing wrong with anime that is otherwise "good" is the poor quality of voice acting and dubbing. If it were not for the fact that characters go "oooohhhhhh" in between every sentence just to make up for a gap in the script, and sometimes have to say a line very quickly to make it through in time (who knew that "yah!" in Japanese was the equivalent of "Super Ultra Neutron Molecule Rocket Blast Supreme!" in English), I think it would not be quite so "embarrassing" to watch anime. I think some anime is the best stuff I've ever watched, but because of the cheesy dialog I'm afraid to watch it with anyone for fear of being made fun of for an eternity thenceforward. Rorouni Kenshin would probably be the best storyline ever (has anyone ever seen the last episode, Reflections?) if it weren't for all the chibi and oro they use.
Ã,  Ã, The first anime I ever saw was Nausicaa in the Valley of the Wind, which was tremendous. The first anime I ever saw that I recognized as anime was Appleseed. I have since seen hundreds of anime, and there is no doubt: the Japanese "have the skills of an artist" that Americans don't have. We simply cannot draw machines and vehicles like they can. We don't spend as much time on our backgrounds. We don't ever even shade. We only draw things from certain angles while anime artists feel free to use any angles because the commie bastards know they can. They might draw faces funny (BESM, big eyes small mouth) but they can illustrate beautiful and anatomically perfect human bodies of both genders. They can animate action in ways that no American artist would ever dare take the time to do.Ã,  Even their crappiest shows top some of our best ones. If you ever see an American show that looks like it could top an anime, watche the credits.... Chances are ten to one that someone of Asian descent, or even a large crew of Japanese or Chinese artists were involved. Some of my favorite American-made animated movies (The Hobbit, The Return of the King, The Flight of Dragons, and The Last Unicorn, to name a few, not to mention shows like Transformers, Thundercats, and Voltron) are "all arted up" by the Japanese.

Another bonus of anime is that there are genres that they just won't touch over here in America. I love Sci-Fi, fantasy, paranormal, etc.... None of these topics are ever touched by American producers, but it is commonplace in Japan. Shows like Outlaw Star, Macross, Witch Hunter Robin (one of my all-time faves), Trigun, Robotech, Fullmetal Alchemist, Paranoia Agent, and Cowboy Bebop break the genre barrier, and these are just Americanized shows you can see on Adult Swim.Ã,  If you go into some of the more Japacentric shows and movies, like Harmagedan, Tokyo Godfathers (which is, by the way, good, for those who were asking), Nausicaa, Appleseed, MD Geist, etc... You get into a whole new world of excellence.

And we won't even go into the fact that the Japanese dominate the video game scene. Every video game you ever liked was probably Japanese... Even Mario (but wasn't he Italian?)... When Microsoft said they were coming out with a system, no one thought it would succeed because it was an American based company with no Japanese backing. The only reason it did well was because Bill "The Dominator" Gates has a monopoly on everything... And it still stands to reason that awesome games like Halo and Halo 2 are only awesome because of the level of graphical quality and the amount of bitticks you get to kick. There really is minimal storyline, and all the "futuristic" elements are textbook replications of other successful science fiction (which was probably Japanese to start out with).

I still feel nerdy watching it, but who cares as long as I like it?Ã, 
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: A�rendyll (formerly Yurina) on Sun 25/09/2005 20:59:41
I agree a lot on Epser.on to the next "lecture"!

Anime is so great because it also has very good points at emotional scenes. I'm not only referring to romantic/dramatic/sad/etc. scenes, but also to chibi's. They always have a chibi for every emotion, which makes anime very funny. Not every anime uses chibi's, but anime without them can also make very good expressions.

I like the drawing style very much. It's detailed, good at anatomics, and the characters are always drawed in the same style as the story is written in. Dat means by example: in serious anime the characters look serious. I like that a LOT.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Mordalles on Sun 25/09/2005 21:24:30
i also aggree with esper.

im a big anime fan. 1st i saw was evangelion, and i didnt realized how well it was animated until i saw it recently again.

then there is berserk, arguebly the best anime series ever! it is my favourite. no animation ever, no matter what style or country will ever beat that. and im not just talking about art here, but about story, characters, plot and everything.
cowboy bebop is another brilliant series, great teacher onizuka, hellsing. golden boy is the funniest animation ever. especially without the subs. furi kuri is awesome.

i aggree that western animation just doesnt cut it when compared to anime. and i hate that all western animation is meant for little kids.

of course, there are so many anime series that is really just boring and drags on. but when it is done right, theres no animation better.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Las Naranjas on Sun 25/09/2005 23:48:16
Dude! I mean, I like Eva, but if there's one thing that Gainax has never done it's animated well. They're much more of the recycled still shots and limited animation school, interlaced with gratuitous fan service [chrissakes, 14 y.os dude!]
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: Akumayo on Mon 26/09/2005 02:08:03
So much anime, but only one studio stands out in my mind:

GENEON

I loved Paranoia Agent with every inch of my soul, and Samurai Champloo is pretty good.
Title: Re: Anime
Post by: TheYak on Mon 26/09/2005 02:25:13
Hell, since the thread's ressurrected, may as well run with it.  Paranoia Agent did kick much ass (the RPG-ish episode I could've done without), and Samurai Champloo provided enjoyment throughout. 

The trademarks of animé are also some of its inherent shortcomings.  Due to low-budget studios and many episodic shows, cels are recycled.  Often it works with the plot (flashbacks, staredowns, repetitive slayings) but it can get damned tedious when watching them to spend half the time being reminded of what happened a week ago.

I mocked animé for some time, but the reason I like it now is that animation's become one of the Japanese staples.  As such, they range from dramas, to action, to comedy, to shows for little kids.  For every 10 series I check out, I may only continue watching 2, but of those two, one is often a real gem.  It's interesting how many imports that get English dialogue treatment were tripe to begin with, those that aren't are often killed with awful low-budget actors.