Any americans watch the debate last night?

[DGMacphee]

I just want remind everyone who wants to argue with poop: he maybe a self-proclaimed genius and going to a school that costs 1 billions dollars, but he still chose poop743 as his nickname. Not Rembrandt62 or Faulkner1138. Just poop743. And arguing with a 13 year old self-proclaimed genius with a nickname synonymous with faeces is like trying to cram a cow into the mouth of someone claiming to be from India.

[TerranRich]

poop743, your credibility just goes lower and lower with every post you make, do you know that? I think you're in the negative numbers now, my friend.

Listen.

You might think you know everything and that you're right, because you believe what everybody tells you. That America is great because we rush into things and take action and say "screw everybody else!" poop743, when you grow up, you'll realize that we're part of a larger world community and we just can't ignore our neighbors. That would be like going over your neighbors' houses mansions, and throwing them because you don't like the way they park their car Ferrari, or because you just don't like them personally. It's ridiculous.

We have to realize that what we do has reprecussions and consequences, and we affect the world with everything that we do. We're not some cowboy yee-haw Lone Ranger nation-state with dreams of taking over the world.

So what if we're a world power? DaveGilbert's analogy of America being a spoiled little brat is dead on. And don't think that it's just non-Americans arguing with you, poop. DG may be from Australia and redruM may be from Portugal (I am Portuguese and have family in Portugal, BTW redrum! ), but I am American...have been for over 22 years, as a matter of fact. Try telling ME that this country is great because of cowboy politics and world policing.

I'll tell you to get a clue and not to come back until you've reached puberty. (Who WAS that AGSer, anyway? Does anybody know???)

[Anarcho]

Thanks for bringing me down to earth DG.  You're absolutely right.

Man, I wish I had the foresight to choose Faulkner1138 as my screen name. 

[Dave Gilbert]

I thought isolationists didn't participate in any foreign affairs, including war?

Well maybe that's not the best word.  I meant isolationist as in "we'll go it alone without anyone's approval or help."

[TerranRich]

I think the word for that, Dave, is "foot-shooter". As in our own feet.

[Andail]

I think we should be a bit firmer when it comes to the age-limit here. People are wasting their time and energy on trying to make a 13-year-old kid understand what the world is like.

The teacher within me says this can't be right; the ags:er within me is quite annoyed that 13-year-olds are allowed to post freely around the forums.

Poop, you've said many things which are ridiculous and refractory, but also some highly offensive things. You need to show some respect.

If your parents weren't be so busy complaining on the taxes, they would probably teach you some manners.
Now please do us all a favour and disappear until you're 16 years old.

[TerranRich]

I'm sure everybody's noticed that the ONLY person to even bother trying to defend Bush was a 13-year-old rich kid. Isn't there anybody out there that can successfully defend Bush?

[juncmodule]

I have been trying to come to grips with why people like Bush.

In the end it just has to be that they relate with him. I will try to explain that in the least demeaning way possible.

Americans suffer in two ways from this "we" problem:

One, how we don't think about what the rest of the world thinks. If it were not for these forums I wouldn't think in such "worldly" or global terms. It has been ingrained in me. It is a constant struggle for me to view things from a world perspective versus an American one.

Two, internally we suffer from a similiar problem. Those exposed to colleges, larger cities (and even not so large cities), and intellectuals in general are very detached from the rest of America. Living on a college campus I was much more aware of the issues in my country, even without seeking them out. Away from this free flowing knowledge these things must be sought out. Most Americans "don't have the time" and are generally uninterested in these things. Most Americans watch the 6 o'clock news and draw all of their knowledge from there. The other day I watched the 6 o'clock news and 10 minutes was dedicated to the Ohio State University football game, 10 minutes to weather, 5 minutes to local fires/car accidents, and the rest divided between world news and commercials.

I think many Americans, mainly "well informed" ones, are not sympathetic to the people that fall into category two. They just don't understand why those people don't seek out that knowledge. In truth they often have no concept as to how those people think. I think that this is why there is such a great divide in this years election and in politcal topics today in general.

Over the past ten years communication has sped up tenfold. Tenfold to an already blazing fast communication system. Urban areas are much more likely to be drowned in this communication while rural areas recieve a lighter flow.

By saying this I'm not saying that Bush supporters are idiots or uninformed. I'm just saying that they only see the good side of Bush. They blame the bad things on someone else and aren't as likely to question it. They still trust America and blind patriotism runs high. There is also a new fear rising. A fear of being painted unpatriotic by speaking out against things. This would affect Rural residents much more strongly than Urban residents.

That is just my theory as to why the country is so divided. You have two different cultures trying to co-exist in America and they are so far apart that they are unable to understand each other. It is not a financial gulf, but a technology gulf in many ways. It is a new problem that the world has not had to deal with yet. It's not a matter of the technology being inaccessible, I think it's a matter of fearing technology and being raised without it. It's also about different uses of technology.

In closing, no I cannot defend Bush, because I am unable to understand him or his supporters. Even if someone did come here to support Bush, they would seem unsuccesful in many of our eyes. The divide to too great.

later,
-junc

[Moox]

Ill try to come up with a way to defend bush.
Be back in a month or two with a one line answer.

[shbaz]

Here's my answer: Ignorance, stupidity, and wealth. Everyone knows that Bush is a tax cutter for the rich, including the rich. Look at this map from the 2000 election.

Blue: Democrat (Gore)
Red: Republican (Bush
http://www.makethemaccountable.com/misc/Maps.htm


Notice the high correlation for rural areas to vote for Bush? The six O'clock news factor. What junc said.

The Bush campaign's main messages are:

Terror
John Kerry changes his mind as new issues arise
John Kerry will raise your taxes

Bush has instilled more terror in Americans than any terrorist ever will, but people away from places where politics are actually questioned don't think about it.

Oh, and look at that bible belt shine!

[DGMacphee]

I saw a doco last night on Ohio's perception of the upcoming election.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2004/s1215757.htm

I found it interesting to see the born-again Christian support for Bush, especially when a lot of these same people had no idea of the economical or health issues. They're voting for Bush because he's a good Christian fella and cause Kerry flip-flops.

IMO, if Kerry wants to win, he's going to have to expose a little more hypocrisy in Bush's Christianity. Kind of like how Pat Robertson lost his presidential nomination after the televangelism scandals.

[shbaz]

Catholics are quiet about religion, and for John Kerry that's a good thing because if he goes talking about Bush's religious hypocrisy then Bush will tackle Kerry's stance on abortion and gay marriage (which he is against, but won't take a stance on).

[poop743]

I have to come clean. Im not 13, Im 12. I dont know too much about politics but i feel I have a valid argument scattered throughout this thread. The american government was created by countless men, and some of the greatest mids the country has ever known. I dont think there is a single way to save america. Every change would help some but contradict something else. I think that if we take it one issue at a time and organize this this thread, or start a new one,  we migh tcome up with something pretty good though.

[juncmodule]

Following up on more of the "why Bush?" thing. I have a co-worker that I know supports Bush so today I asked him why. Although it took a bit to get it out of him he eventually said he's pro-life. For many people this is a HUGE deal. Regardless of the good they may see in Kerry or bad in Bush, they are still going to cast their vote pro-life (therefore, pro-Bush). Later in the day I asked him what he thought of the patriot act. He had of course heard of it but didn't know much about it. I told him about Homeland security and unifying intelligence agencies and he seemed to know about that part. He was unaware of "sneak and peak", suspected terrorists being arrested and not given legal representation, etc. It actually really sparked something with him. He values his privacy and freedom.

On another note I was told the other day that the US doesn't observe or honor the Geneva Convention in regards to terrorists? Is this true? Has anyone confirmed or heard of this? Kind of falls along the lines of the whole international crimes court thing. No accountability for us, but everybody else should be accountable. These are the kinds of things that push me over into the conspiracy theorists area...the dictatorship is coming...

Oh, and DG, what the heck!? It scares me when people from a different country may be more well informed about my state than I am! Thanks for the link, that comes on in two hours and I'm going to watch it. I will try to remember to comment back here after I see it.

later,
-junc

EDIT:

Wow.

I'm stupid

ABC does not stand for American BroadcastingÃ,  Corporation (or whatever the "C" stands for) it stands for Australian Broadcasting Corporation. Thinking like an American... :

Here is the transript though:
http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2004/s1217992.htm

[lasnaranjas ubplugged]

That is mainly in relation to the alleged [hey, eveyone should have a right to a trial] Taliban fighters and Al Queda members at Guantanomo. Since the Taliban was not recognised as a government byanyone but Pakistan, none of the participants in that war were actually at war with Afghanistan, and so the administration argues that the prisoners that have been taken are not prisoners of war, but "illegal combatants", and thus that the Geneva Convention does not apply.

Whilst it's clearly in violation of the spirit of the convention, they may have a technicality.

[poop743]

I have a great idea. It is an adventure game inspired by the contents of this thread. i am calling it America: The Game. It will be funny and comically highlight many of america's shortcomings and problems. Please tell me about your ideas. In my game George Bush is wearing a darth vader mask and tells dick cheney that he is his father. John Kerry is Luke Skywalker. Can someone draw a character of george bush and bush wearing a darth vader mask. The one I made is way too small and i need one drawn to scale. I know thta I have been a jerk, but i also know that people here are happy to help me.

Please feel free to give ideas and character models for the game

[Domino]

I've been messin with AGS for over a year, but i am still a forum newbie. I am also one of the most notorious posters here.

Poop743 rules!

Please see the debate thread and help me with my game

Sorry,

time to flush the Poop down the toilet.

[shbaz]

You're not real. I keep telling myself that, but I think it's time for you to know too, you can't be real.

[Moox]

I drew a bush char and a talking pose for him!



Sorry, I felt the urge.

[DGMacphee]

In my game George Bush is wearing a darth vader mask and tells dick cheney that he is his father. John Kerry is Luke Skywalker.

Now you think John Kerry's a good guy???

Who's flip-flopping now?