Another post about religion and its influences on reality.

shitar · Fri 25/08/2006 02:08:48

Today at school in World History we watched a video of a man (I forgot his name) who was an anthropologist. He was the man that found "Lucy" in Ethiopia and it was basically the documentary of the whole search and find. Amazingly our teacher was able to stop the tape 5 minutes early and asked the question "What was wrong with that video". I was just thinking "Oh shit here it comes, darwin this, darwin that."

At one point in the video a piece of hip bone was found that was oddly shaped. So this anthropologist took it to a forensic expert friend of his and his friend concluded that the hip bone was two seperate pieces of the same hip bone that had been "spliced" together from the pressure of sediment (over 3 million years). So he used his professional knowledge to RE-allign it and make a mold (meaning he made a mold of what it WOULD look like if it was the whole piece based off of the size/shape/lines/etc). Of course this was an immediate target for our teacher, because the man was "guessing and improvising" what the "missing link's" hip would look like (She dosen't believe we are derived from primates, i guess dogs and birds, and birds and reptiles arent related either. So she showed us this video simply so she could disprove everything to us afterwards).

She then proceeded to explain to us why we couldn't be possibly related to apes. She talked about bone structure and some stupid stuff that didnt really prove anything (because to her it would be IMPOSSIBLE that a chimp could go from having a "swivel" hip and having "unlockable knee joints" to walking upright and having "lockable knee joints" over 3,000,000 years). I saw I had no chance at even beginning an argument due to the fact that everyone else was Christian in the room. She told us several times that she believed there was no missing link and she gave us reasons each time that the others bit into immediately.

Thank God my teacher has 2 years of forensics (from which she dropped out) and was an avid CSI fan or I would have strayed from Jesus's Gospel and wrongly believed we were ever anything except humans.

Yesterday, we were reading a history book and we came across the term "B.C.E." (Before Common Era replacement for Before Christ). She proceeded to spend the whole day dropping "again, B.C.E. is the politically correct term" when she came across the term. She put a satirical accent on the sentence as if trying to convince us of its stupidity. I was completely pissed off. But I knew I couldn't say anything in a classroom full of "them".

I dont know why I come to AGS to vent but I feel like this is a place where I am not surrounded by people that refuse to listen to any explanation but the Bible. It's really weird because "I" feel like the minority when it comes to what I believe. Recently the teaching of the THEORY of evolution was banned from our school (which is illegal due to Supreme Court precendents on similar cases) because the Baptist Church was getting complaints from children. It just feels so stupid to have to even deal with this stuff, its an unexplainable feeling of drowning in other's ignorance.

Thank you for letting me vent on your forums, CJ. My heart would rupture if I wasnt able to vent on here.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Fri 25/08/2006 05:07:50

Sounds to me like you are no different from your teacher: unwilling to listen and give serious thought to any explanation but what you already believe. Don't feel bad, most people are this way.

The Inquisitive Stranger · Fri 25/08/2006 06:30:36

Why most, and not all?

Erenan · Fri 25/08/2006 06:42:44

People are often reluctant to make sweeping generalizations like that.

TheYak · Fri 25/08/2006 09:54:51

Are all people reluctant in that way?

Anyway.. as much as it's a pet-peeve of mine when people hyper-analyze things while completely skewing their dissection to reflect their personal beliefs, I don't think it's such a bad educational experience.

I'd rather hear the refutations in class and read the supporting arguments for myself. Too many evolutionary teachers just present everything as a given and neglect supporting arguments and evidence. Granted, there's not supposed to be a religious twist to science class, but many secular teachers seem to be as anti-religious as they are pro-scientific.

I've yet to run across BCE in common usage, but I sneer a little when I see that as well. Just because we're now acknowledging that not everybody is necessarily Christian, does that mean we have to instantly remove every instance of Christianity's influence? If our current year is based upon a certain person, why try and pretend that we all banded together and some point and agreed that it was a wonderful day to start year zero?

In any case, while I disagree with the motivation of your teacher, the subject matter should be enlightening no matter which side of the fence you're on. Just remember that if you really want to learn something you always have to study on your own. Teachers just aren't that talented. If you just want to pass, stop complaining and memorize whatever BS comes your way.

The Inquisitive Stranger · Fri 25/08/2006 23:24:29

Quote from: TheYak on Fri 25/08/2006 09:54:51
...but many secular teachers seem to be as anti-religious as they are pro-scientific.

I've had tons of teachers/professors who were both pro-religion and pro-science; hell, my extremely open-minded high school philosophy teacher was Christian. It doesn't have to be a dichotomy.

TheYak · Sat 26/08/2006 11:41:31

True, but 'tis a rare beast of which you speak. All too rare in the US, at least.

The Inquisitive Stranger · Sat 26/08/2006 19:30:13

Ah! I went to school in Canada. That explains it...

m0ds · Sat 26/08/2006 19:36:37

Teachers hold their own opinions and I think they'd prefer you to respect that than to agree with it. If they have an opinion or beleif, it can help you form your own - and that in effect is teaching, and is what the "system" wants you to do.

shitar · Mon 28/08/2006 05:55:04

Quote from: m0ds on Sat 26/08/2006 19:36:37
Teachers hold their own opinions and I think they'd prefer you to respect that than to agree with it. If they have an opinion or beleif, it can help you form your own - and that in effect is teaching, and is what the "system" wants you to do.

you are a wise man m0ds. BTW Lacey says "hi"

Helm · Mon 28/08/2006 14:17:32

A teacher is supposed to be presenting the curriculum material in as clear and helpful manner as possible. He's not supposed to go off on wild pro/con Darwinism tangents, unless that's within the curriculum. If it is, you're fucked.

ManicMatt · Mon 28/08/2006 14:54:47

I was just about to say, teachers should just tell you the facts. Unless they're teaching religious studies. I think that's almost the layman's terms for what Helm just said.

Erenan · Tue 29/08/2006 05:06:46

But Religious Studies isn't the same thing as religion. In Religious Studies, you read religious texts and discuss them in order to discuss and understand what religions teach. Believing in Jesus and learning about what the Bible says are two very different things. Of course, you might mean that in discussing religious texts, it's not so much a matter of fact versus falsehood, but a matter of discussion and interpretation. In which case, nevermind.

That was a tangent.

shitar · Sun 05/11/2006 02:45:22

Lol well I guess I have somewhat of an update.

We were taking notes over various ethnic groups during ancient times. We wrote about 3 sentences about the Lydians, Phoenicians, Assyrians, we were just writing quick notes. Then we got to Hebrews and I ended up having 2 entire pages filled with "quick" notes. I had everything from some kind of agreement Jews had with God, Jesus (which was like 2000 years out of the time era we were studying), the reason that that one Testament book was NOT religious text but a historical record ( :

), dead sea scrolls. Then she asked some questions about "history" that had nothing to do with the notes we were taking but with Biblical events and such. So I obviously failed those questions while the church kids passed no problem. I had to restrain myself very hard not to say "Is this a history class, or a theology class?" because at that point I was just pissed. Its oppressing to come to a federally funded school and have the (federal worker) teacher talk to you about Jesus in a history lesson about the ancient civilizations in Africa/Asia/Europe.

I dont know what to do about this situation, its just to the point where it feels oppressive. Any advice?

Helm · Sun 05/11/2006 03:14:53

I'd suggest picking your battles smartly.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Sun 05/11/2006 06:45:47

I suggest being mature and dealing with it. We often don't like what we're told or read, but that is also part of the learning process. Taking your teacher's approach to history as a personal attack is rather silly and counterproductive. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you have to believe anything you're told or read, but feeling oppressed by an alternate viewpoint is only going to cause you grief later in life. If you don't agree, shrug it off.

FieryPhoenix · Sun 05/11/2006 07:40:16

I agree with both of Helm's posts- that the teacher is supposed to teach the curriculum- not the teacher's beliefs or values- and you need to pick your battles.Ã,Â Ã,Â

What is the name of your textbook?Ã,Â Ã,Â Would you mind sharing (here or in an email) where you go to school.Ã,Â Ã,Â I've had a lot of experience in this area- I won't suggest what you should do- but I can tell you where to go/ who to contact with your concerns. You have very valid concerns- but be careful who you share them with.

jetxl · Sun 05/11/2006 10:20:17

You could record some of her classes with one of those handy song recorders.
Refuse to go to her class because of her bias and christian agenda.
Shove these 150 questions in her face.

Or you can just space out in her class and wait for college.