Did we go to the moon?

[Stupot]

this is the silliest argument I've ever encountered... It's not even an arguement, it's just a.... I don't know what it is. You're willing to ignore mountains of evidence just because you like a false theory?

It was never supposed to be an argument, it was an admission.

Do you also doubt the existence of World War 1 or 2 or the holocaust? I mean the footage is all grainy and you can easily see how they could have faked it all.

Come on... I'm not the first person to use point out that grainy footage is an indication of a hoax... are you telling me you beleive in the Bigfoot video and all those UFO photos?... I have no doubt World Wars 1 and 2 happened, because My grandparents were there and told me about it (well WW2 at least).

Do you "believe" that there is a war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan? Do you "believe" in Guam island? Do you "believe" that I live in Troy, NY? I mean, you haven't been to these places first hand, this could all be an elaborate hoax! Do you know there are people in this world who actually believe they were REALLY fighting in the Iraq war when actually they were just in the Nevada desert.

Although there is no doubt that these wars are going on, it's true to say that we don't always know exactly what's going on... most of us (unless we happen to know some of the soldiers out there experiencing thisng first hand) have to believe everything we see on the news or in the papers... and we all know that what is reproted in the media can not always be fully trusted...

Whats to say that the television was any more trustworthy in 1969 than it is now?

You want to believe a theory but you don't know enough about it. C'mon man, you're on the internet, at least give yourself confirmation bias and only read moon hoax sites to convince yourself that you're right! Or do some research [like read the Bad Astronomy link I added to this thread] and let's have a dialog about what's in that article that you still can't accept as evidence or find fishy.

This insults me...
If only you knew how much I've read into this subject (both sides) since I was 12 (i'm 24 now, thats half my life), When The X Files was big and the internet was in it's youth... I used to be well into paranormal goings on and was a conspiracy theorist throughout my teenage years.  But I've since become an adult, and a logical one at that... I balance the arguments, take everything into account and come to my own conclusion (to which I think I'm entitled)...

In the case of the moon landings my opinion is this... and had been for the last five years:

'They probably didn't really fake it, but would it be so much of a surprise if it turned out they had? It seems plausible, they had a motive, and I had more fun when I believed it was fake so I'll stick to that for now, thank you very much.'

[lo_res_man]

IF it turned out they faked it, no it wouldn't SUPRISE me. Yes they certainly had a motive IF they faked it. But if they were any real proof they faked it, the  former Soviets would have called them on it. They ALSO had a motive. So even if it COULD have been faked with the tech of the time, (which I don't believe it could IMNHO) that doesn't mean it was. just because something CAN be faked, doesn't mean it has been. People do get bullet wounds, we can fake one with make up, does that mean there is a vast conspiracy of gunshot victims? They would have a motive as well, not  getting killed. But if it was, how would you keep it a secret?

[MrColossal]

It was never supposed to be an argument, it was an admission.

Hehe ok, so you ADMIT to ignoring mountains of evidence! That's not much better!

Come on... I'm not the first person to use point out that grainy footage is an indication of a hoax... are you telling me you beleive in the Bigfoot video and all those UFO photos?... I have no doubt World Wars 1 and 2 happened, because My grandparents were there and told me about it (well WW2 at least).

Comparing landing on the moon which is supported by a mountain of verifiable evidence with bigfoot doesn't really work in my opinion. If ALL we had was grainy photos of the moon landing then maybe there'd be some doubt.

Also, anecdotal evidence is not the best evidence to help prove something happened. If I were to just listen to your grandparents talking about WW2 and then listen to some guy named Cletus talking about how they were abducted by aliens who turned him into a bigfoot... I'd have to believe or disbelieve them both equally unless they offered up evidence. Luckily for your grandparents they have a mountain of evidence. Sorry Cletus, I don't accept your hairy back as proof that you were a bigfoot!

Whats to say that the television was any more trustworthy in 1969 than it is now?

Take hundreds to thousands of scientists that worked on the various shuttles that went to the moon and cross reference it with the tv reporting along with all the documents and books and science done and you come up with a nice verifiable proof. We landed on the moon and what we saw on TV was correct. It's not just TV but everything else as well that verifies the news reports.

This insults me...
If only you knew how much I've read into this subject (both sides) since I was 12 (i'm 24 now, thats half my life), When The X Files was big and the internet was in it's youth... I used to be well into paranormal goings on and was a conspiracy theorist throughout my teenage years.  But I've since become an adult, and a logical one at that... I balance the arguments, take everything into account and come to my own conclusion (to which I think I'm entitled)...

Never said you weren't entitled to your own opinions, I hope I didn't come off that way.. And I apologize, you didn't say that you didn't know enough about the theory to back it up properly, you just don't believe it enough. But this just makes no sense to me. You don't believe in a theory enough [for various reasons?] to really argue about it but you WANT to believe it? Because it's more fun to distrust hundreds of thousands of people, millions of dollars wasted, decades of lies and lives lost etc... Doesn't sound like fun to me but to each their own, as you say.

Honestly, I'm interested if you read the Bad Astronomy debunking of Moon Hoaxers and if so what on there doesn't convince you? That's the more interesting discussion, I think.

The reason I pick the Bad Astronomy debunking is because it's a great collection of responses to claims so we can talk about them without having to say "There was a site once that said something about light bouncing? I can't find it now." and we can say "On page 3 I didn't accept the claim that... yadda yadda "

[lo_res_man]

What I like about bad astronomy is that he admits when he has been wrong, and re edits his work. He isn't as dogmatic.

[Obi]

I went to the moon. It was bloody good.

[Nacho]

Don' t feel so insulted, Stupot.

http://goingfaster.com/icarus/all_the_dead_heroes.htm

You are also insulting the memories of those heroes, and their relatives... 

[Stupot]

Don' t feel so insulted, Stupot.

http://goingfaster.com/icarus/all_the_dead_heroes.htm

You are also insulting the memories of those heroes, and their relatives... 

I never thought about it like that.
So let's hope the landings were real because if they were faked then these good men have died in vain.

[EldKatt]

Unless they were also in on it.

[Nacho]

Yes, they probably are in the Island with Elvis, Lennon, Kennedy and Jim Morrison. 

EDIT: Anywat, thanks, Stupot... It was a reply waaaaaay mature than I expected from a person who has doubts about if we were there. Congratulations. 

[Oliwerko]

I think that it was not so easy to fake it. Actually, the people working on the Apollo project invented vast number of materials/devices/procedures that are used in normal life now, we have seen space ships starting from CC, I mean, if it is a hoax, it is a REALLY BIG one.

It is really easier to gather piles of fake evidence if there were 3 people that assasinated JFK and perhaps 10 more that have known about/planned it, than to fake a moon landing. On the other hand, WTC is IMHO a total stupid naive hoax that nobody sees, even when it is obvious, and look - people believe things that are told them on TV. They just blindly believe. It could be similar in the moon cause, but....it just don't fit there. ( wow, that's an argument  )

[veryweirdguy]

Guys, this argument is POINTLESS.

http://www.stuffucanuse.com/fake_moon_landings/moon_landings.htm

PROOF the moon landing never happened.

[Nacho]

Oli, can you elaborate? Where is the obvious hoax that nobody (except your enlighted majesty, or course) can see in the 9/11 tragical events?

[Misj']

I think that it was not so easy to fake it. Actually, the people working on the Apollo project invented vast number of materials/devices/procedures that are used in normal life now, we have seen space ships starting from CC, I mean, if it is a hoax, it is a REALLY BIG one

The fact that people have created huge rockets with enough explosive material (fuel) to leave Earth's atmosphere is not an argument in favour nor against the moon-landing (or the historical accuracy of Buck Rogers...which I personally somewhat doubt). They are two completely different things:

Have men (and women) left the Earth? - Yes...

Have they landen on the moon while being away from Earth? - Frankly, I really don't care. I see no reason why anyone would want to go to the moon (and back again). I certainly wouldn't want to. But...a lot of people have done a lot of things that I do not find useful, nor that I would do myself. Is it technically possible to land on the moon and leave again? - Probably. Is it technically possible to fake it? - Sure (it sure helps that no one really knows what the moon is like up that close...assuming that the landing was a fake).

So does my life change by some guy walking on the big round lump of cheese up in the sky? - No.

Nevertheless, one thing I can say for certain in regard to the question 'did we go to the moon?' - I don't know about you, but I didn't.

Misj'

[MoodyBlues]

Oh, c'mon.  If the moon landings were faked by the U. S. to scare the Russians, do you think NASA would leave "errors" in the footage that the average person could see as soon as it aired?

Just because events seem unbelievable - the Holocaust, the September 11 attacks, presidential assassinations - doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[Oliwerko]

Oli, can you elaborate? Where is the obvious hoax that nobody (except your enlighted majesty, or course) can see in the 9/11 tragical events?

Yeah, I like my new name, I can sign my school tests with "enlighted majesty" 

Seriously now, I have seen tons of materials on WTC that actually convince me to bias to the "conspiration side". I do not force anyone to believe it, it is personal. I can only say, that the Pentagon thing is really weird for me. I am convinced that it was a bomb. Did you see any 747 ever crashing into a building making a nice round hole big as a regular van, cutting off the laps on the car park nicely without breaking them? The damage on Pentagon was not caused by any plane IMO. Whatever it was, it was not a plane, I think. About WTC, did you ever see a building like that fall like that? This just CAN NOT happen, it was a controlled destruction. Look at any planned destructions of old buildings, they fold like that into themselves. Do you think it is possible to happen, that a building is damaged by a plane(s) and it actually falls like that? Into itself? I don't know, but IMO it was controlled destruction. If it wasn't, the buildings would fall like a falling tree. Many many experts told that building can't just fall into itself like that when it is not a controlled destruction. Firemen heard destructions, and I have seen footages showing puffs of white dust blowing when the building was falling - the dynamites or whatever that caused the controlled destruction. Off course, witnesses and footages can be easily fake, and I do not trust a footage on internet that can be easily faked, but the controlled destruction and the hole in pentagon are facts. These photos are facts.

I know that at least 5 people here will argue that it is opposite with reasonable arguments, that is understandable. It is personal, everyone believes that thing that suits his personality. It is like when you can't eat something because its taste is in your opinion HORRIBLE. It is the same principle.

These things above are just my opinion, not truth, I know that 

[MrColossal]

Have you by any chance read the popular mechanics article about this?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1

I think that's it.

[Nacho]

Thanks for the reply Oli ^_^ When you said something "obvious" I though it was something really interesting It' s a relief to know you were refering to the same crap than the others mentioned before. 

[EldKatt]

It is personal, everyone believes that thing that suits his personality. It is like when you can't eat something because its taste is in your opinion HORRIBLE. It is the same principle.

No it isn't. Even if it suits me not to believe in the theory of gravitation, I'm still not falling up. Not everything is a matter of taste.

[lo_res_man]

What it IS more like is the difference between creationisim and evolutionism. Now, I was raised on creationisim, BUT I was also raised to think, to examine the evidence, even if it makes me uncomfortable. Now I still don't belive in abiogenesis, but evolution itself makes a lot more sense. In fact I am grateful my parents believed creationisim, because with my natural scientific curiosity, it made me think about every article I read. I studied the arguments, looking for loopholes. And I did read articles, I read science textbooks, encyclopedias, and  adult science magazines. I would force myself to read them, though my dogmatic side said, "this can't be right!" Eventually I came to the conclusion, evolution much more fit the facts then strict literal creationisim.

It was difficult, in fact , it IS difficult. But I am proud to say I have tried my best to look at the facts and not just accept the bald statements. In fact I hope to have a career in the sciences, among other things. And incase you haven't figured it out by now, I think we went to the moon. That it was one of the greatest achievements of not just the United States of America, but of the whole world. Scotch was right, its wonderful how we think WE went to the moon. It is one of the of the few moments of human history where mankind can stand together and say "We did it" To quote Jim Lovell: From now on, we live in a world where man has walked on the moon. And it's not a miracle, we just decided to go.

[dasjoe]