Feedback on AS English coursework please

[Flippy_D]

Melon melon melon

-Wiped due to concerns over zealous exam administrators.

[big brother]

I'm not sure I quite understand. Are we using the AGS Forums for posting homework now???

By "need to find out: target audience", do you mean you're trying to figure out who this paper should be written to? If that's the case, it might be more helpful to figure that out BEFORE you wrote anything.

[Sam.]

remember that form you signed? "this piece of work is entirely my own? i guess this violates it. I did my english coursework all by myself. and I got an A.

Knock Knock!
Who's there? 
Maida. 
Maida who? 
Maida  force be with you! 

[Andail]

Yay for you, Zooty

now if you're not gonna post something useful, funny, etc....

edit: I see, you edited in something "funny" to your post, he

[Nacho]

Mmmm... I am not sure, but if you see this essay as an artistic expression, or as an intellectual product which can be improved with help... Shouldn't it be in Critics Lounge?

[Privateer Puddin']

Before i read all that, is it AS Language, AS Literature or AS Lang and Lit?

[PaulSC]

Are you sure publicly posting an essay on the internet before you hand it in is really a good idea?

I know you didn't want to debate, but I can't resist posting my thoughts anyway. I'm a self indulgent bastard.

It strikes me that a lot of this essay is just you stating your personal opinions on various films and filmmakers, without explaining them or backing them up significantly beyond your general personal impressions.

You ignore The Man Who Wasn't There, which came after O Brother and I think is up there with the Coens' best. If you disagree with me there, you should explain why. But don't just pretend it doesn't exist for the purposes of your argument.

And say what you will about George Lucas, but he's been almost entirely independent from Hollywood for over 25 years. Any creative decline on his part is down to him and him alone. He can afford to do almost anything he wants with his films.

The conclusion in the last paragraph starts to make an interesting point, but I'm not convinced that point is solidly backed up by the rest of your essay. And the stuff immediately before that conclusion strikes me as being hypothetical in the extreme.

Personally if I was writing that essay I'd try to make things a little more objective by spending more time comparing and contrasting Hollywood with the film industries of other countries, as well as American independent film industry. E.g. I might point out that Hollywood has the benefits of the highest budgets, but has the consequences of the desire to make films more crowd-pleasing in order to increase the chances of making back those high investments. Independent and foreign films, on the other hand, often have smaller budgets and more creative freedom, but with the consequences of a necessarily smaller scope, and possibly a lower overall level of production quality.

Gosh, don't you just hate it when people criticise the stuff you do?

[Flippy_D]

Especially when they take it apart so superbly, Paul...

And yes. Those are all exceptionally valid points... so I should obviously avoid extreme movie buffs, although I will change the Lucas reference, I thought he was still heavily involved with Hollywood. Incidentally, I don't really see the harm. The worst I can imagine is examiners finding it and assuming plagerism, but I have all my development notes and my English teacher has seen enough of it to know it's my work.

Pudding: Language.
Farl: Yeah, I wondered about that. Didn't have much time, figured it would be moved if neccessary.
Zooty: This is not GCSE, nor have I signed anything. Feedback was in fact suggested by my English Teacher to affirm a target audience. Don't be a prick.

Big Brother: Hey, it's a little more than homework... As I've said, target audience was kept in mind when I wrote this. I just need to see now whether I've done it right. The ease at which Paul blasted some of it to pieces is a little worrying, but seeing as I wasn't writing for someone with his depth of knowledge (and now I can re-draft a few things, too), it's okay. I'm not trying to find a target audience, I'm trying to make sure I succeeded in writing to the one I wanted.

Thanks for all the feedback. If anyone has anything else, feel free to tell me, but I think I'm okay right now... when it's all said and done, nobody else is going to read it. And I can write a killer commentary to slot the essay neatly into place as well, hopefully.

[Nacho]

Actually Flippy, the sense of my post it's not "Oh, this stupid guy has completely lost his mind and he's posting in the wrong place!"... The point is that the doubt came to myself and I am asking the wise men of the moderatorism of his opinion...

Maybe we're in a 50% 50% CL or GenGen thread case? 

[Flippy_D]

Hey, I know. It's cool. Be cool.

[PaulSC]

Glad you didn't take it personally, Flippy (looking back I came across as a bit blunt), and I wouldn't worry too much. See I'm just coming to the end of a film degree at uni, so this is kind of my area. Doesn't make me an authority or anything, but it does mean I'm pretty familiar with a lot of the dos and don'ts of your average film essay (though I think I really blew my last one).

[Sam.]

Especially when they take it apart so superbly, Paul...


Pudding: Language.
Farl: Yeah, I wondered about that. Didn't have much time, figured it would be moved if neccessary.
Zooty: This is not GCSE, nor have I signed anything. Feedback was in fact suggested by my English Teacher to affirm a target audience. Don't be a prick.

sorry, didn't mean to be an arsehole. I had to sign a form is all. I assumed it was the same at all colleges. MAybe its just literature i needed a form for. its hard to remember

[DragonRose]

The worst I can imagine is examiners finding it and assuming plagerism, but I have all my development notes and my English teacher has seen enough of it to know it's my work.

Never EVER assume that. That sort of thinking can get you expelled. I am in no way joking. I know more than one person who has had to go to hearings because they miscited something or were simply unaware that someone else had had similar ideas and had published before them. They have even talked to the teachers before submitting their work, but they didn't show proper documentation.

Anyway, on to your paper.

1) In your first paragraph, you continuously mention "they." Who are "they?" Where have they said it? Just "the critics" is not enough. Give some names, give publications. If you feel that this is just a general observation, find other people who have said the same thing and use their opinions to back your own up. Citations make you look clever, and keep you from getting your butt kicked over technicalities.

2) What the heck is up with your title? Making words bold doesn't excuse you from using the space bar. If you were submitting this to any reputable publication, they would take one look at that and never even read the rest of the article.

3) Second paragraph, you make a bracketed interjection about the latest Affleck vehicle driving off a cliff. Though it's rather clever, it breaks up the sentence, making it hard to follow.

4) Your comments about The Cohen brothers are completely unsupported. You just say "they're getting less original" and leave it at that. Are they being derivative of other films? Are they copying what they've done before?

5)

Subsequently, in a neat series of copycats, recent action movies are full of ‘bullet time', a phrase coined by the unabashed Wachowski brothers.

This really doesn't make sense. You make it sound as if they should be ashamed for coming up with bullet time.

6)Oceans 12 is released.

7) You sometimes cite years for films, sometimes don't. Pick one.

8) Pirates of the Carribean isn't a "cult classic." It's entirely mainstream. Rocky Horror Picture Show, Plan 9 from Outer Space and UHF are cult classics.

9)

The Big Movie of '99 was probably American Pie

Was it or wasn't it? Make a stand.

10)

It seems, at a glance, that what the critics proclaim is right, and Hollywood truly is the antithesis of creative vision.

This is wordy and convoluted. Simply saying "It seems, at a glance, that the critics are right, and Hollywood truly is the anitithesis of creative vision."

11) If you're aiming for a broadsheet audience, you're aiming for a grade 6 reading level. Antithesis is a big word.  Try "opposite" or something similar.

12)

In fact, are they anything new at all?

Ah! Grammar! Subject verb agreement is your friend!

13)

The same is true for Spiderman, revisiting the superhero movie scene, and it's no surprise to suddenly see Hulk, The Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Batman, and Catwoman sidling onto the silver screen. Did I mention there's a sequel? There's a sequel.

You mention six films here. Which one has the sequel, or do they have one sequel amongst all of them?

14) In the end, you seem to be making an article for countercultural films. It comes from nowhere. I'd advise using examples of what underground films have done that is so original, and contrasting it to the pastiche of modern Hollywood movies.

In all honesety, this seems to be more of a 'zine based article, rather than a broadsheet. You use informal, almost colloquial language.  You put yourself into the article occasionally, something you'd need a proper byline to get away with in a broadsheet, unless the whole thing was about your own experiences, which it isn't. Also, bashing the current cultural mainstream is best done from a countercultural base.  Broadsheets, even liberal ones, like the status quo.

[Flippy_D]

Oh... drat.

I tried to write it in the style of The Independent.  Without trying to sound churlish, I can argue back some of these.

1) Quoting articles... that's never been a biggie. It is a fairly casual piece, because it's essentially filler for a review section. Here's some examples of the kind of de-formalised tone it takes. This isn't something where I have to provide appendicies (and I just realised I have two heavyweight quotes from media analysts in there, too).

2) It's sheer eye candy. You're right, it's utterly unnecessary. However, doesn't stuff like that attract the reader? I've definitely seen it done, I've seen all kinds of graphical tricks played.

3) Noted.

4) Again, passing references... I have a word limit here. The danger is exploring everything far too thoroughly, which will not only bore the reader (as this section is more 'light entertainment' than anything else, but will make the article too long. I can't afford to do that. This is not a piece of writing for people to ruminate over. It's there to flick through and be done with.

5) Uh, I'll have to check that. Thanks.

6) Yes. I didn't know it had been released over here.. a relatively quiet showing, I think. I'll change it.

7) I can't possibly pick one. Quoting all would be ludicrous. Quoting those two shows the period between those two films, otherwise they could be made either consecutively or over 10.

8 ) Yeah. I guess that's right. Hell of a large chunk to re-write though. Maybe I can play with the words there.

9) Casual language, and this isn't a debate over that particular idea. It's a passing example of a much bigger point.

10) You're right.

11) I completely disagree.

12) Casual language!

13) Will re-write.

14) I'll consider that. The conclusion probably is a little bit sudden. Also, you said what I've been saying all along, that this is a fairly casual style and that it's meant to be. But I also wasn't bashing Hollywood. I wasn't saying that I agreed or disagreed with 'the critics'. I looked at both viewpoints, sure, but I tried to show the flaws in each argument in a structured way. For, against, conclusion.

As for the essay, I'll corrupt it now so any search engines will be stumped.

I do appreciate this feedback, and if I sound a little snappy it's because I'm highly defensive, and it comes naturally. It is also quarter to midnight. And I have school tomorrow.

Oh dear oh dear...

[DragonRose]

2] It might look pretty, but it isn't professional.

8] If I recall your arguement correctly, you could just call it a block buster. A cult hit means that there is a tiny but rabid following.   The idea of having an unusual film that grabbed main stream attention would seem to fit in with your arguement.

Sorry if I ran a bit rough-shod. I end up doing a LOT of proof reading for formal essays, (which is about all that I get to write any more  ) so I tend to try and force most non-fiction into formal rules.

[AGA]

Okay, the topic's subject no longer exists, so I'll lock this thread.