Flaming/trolling: good thing or bad?

[MrColossal]

If it ever happens again you can block users from PMing you in your profile settings.

[ManicMatt]

Hmm should I believe a liar like Skyfire? Skyfire the liar! That rhymes!

Skyfire sent me an interesting PM not long ago:

"Did your daddy touch your penis while saying "Paki" when you were little or something?"

To which I replied:

"What is your intention with asking me this? What do you hope to achieve? I request that you please desist with such comments."

To which he replied:

"You are crying about something that is completely ridiculous and the only thing that I can conjure up is that it must be related to a hideous crime such as molestation."

To which I replied!:

"I suppose it would seem ridiculous to racist scum like yourself."

What ever will he say next! I can barely contain my excitement!

Not very mature of me to post this, but if the moderators really have a problem with it go ahead and delete it. 

EDIT: Wait, I got a reply!

"At least racists don't run around with socks in their pants.  Wink"

Huh? That was almost a friendly mock. I don't get him.

[skyfire2]

  Okay.....

[Raggit]

HEY!  I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

[LimpingFish]

I don't think I've ever entered into a "debate" on the internet with the express intention of insulting someone. Whenever I feel the urge to post in a thread, it's simply to add my opinion to the mix and see how things go

I will admit to sometimes stepping over the line, though, and allowing some posts to become more aggressive then I would like, but the option to apologize is always there. An option which, I'm not ashamed to say, I've availed of on a (small ) number of occassions.

Internet forums are so different to having conversations face to face that, sometimes, we behave in a manner that may not reflect our true personality.

Or, in a scary way, maybe they give our true personalities free reign to express thoughts and opinions we wouldn't normally admit to?

LimpingFish shudders...

[lo_res_man]

HEY! I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

to quote one of those funny in jokes no one but 12 17 teen year olds who went to summer camp will get, "I don't get it" [laughter]
Is the above meant to be ironic, or is he (or she, but i'm thinking he) really a phreakin' nut job?

[skyfire2]

HEY! I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

to quote one of those funny in jokes no one but 12 17 teen year olds who went to summer camp will get, "I don't get it" [laughter]
Is the above meant to be ironic, or is he (or she, but i'm thinking he) really a phreakin' nut job?

I think he/she posted it for comic relief on this edgy topic.

[Meowster]

I think to be honest in real life I wouldn't bother arguing with people like SkyFire. Because I would feel bad arguing with a 15 year old boy, but also to be honest I don't think he'd be quite as rude in real life. For instance, this gem of a PM he sent me after he threatened to rape my 'transexual ass'... sorry SkyFire, it's too good to not share:

Feel free to shit yourself as you experience my rage! Fuck bastard super cockshitmaster!!!! fuckity fuck fuck fuck! cuntlicker wallfucker!

I told yutzster to "fuck off" because she continued to spam me with garbage. She whined about it so i did more and the spamming stopped.

Alright, this is a lie so I really do have to react to this... he's already claimed I sent him porn via PM before...

SkyFire, I don't know how many other people besides Matt and myself that you have tried to 'sneakily' harrass through PM while maintaining an innocent face in public, but give it up. If I showed moderators some of your comments you would immediately be banned for extreme racism, extreme sexism, threatening me, threatening to rape me, threatening to rape my boyfriend... and that's just off the top of my head. If you try to deny this, I can show any single person who is interested my account with PMs from you. That's solid proof that you can't deny.

I still haven't recieved an apology from you for any of these things. I don't believe you've apologised to ManicMatt either.

At least when myself or other people on the forums are angry or rude to other forumers, we do it with honesty. I didn't pretend I wasn't angered by ManicMatt's overreaction, but that doesn't mean I don't like him, and it ESPECIALLY doesn't mean I send him nasty and childishly taunting PMs in secret to offend him. I broached the subject in front of everyone, and if anyone wants to disagree, that's fine. That's how discussions work.

I don't believe you would act like this in a real life, face-to-face conversation... because if you threatened to rape me in real life, you would go to prison. Sadly, because you feel safe behind the wall of the internet, you feel like you can say these things without any consequences. And sadly, that's mostly true. But my point is, you don't contribute to debates. You don't give your opinion and then listen to or respect the opinion of others. You just send them vicious PMs telling them how you're going to rape them. Or asking if they were sexually abused as a child whilst being called a 'Paki'.

If you disagree with this... if you think that telling somebody how you're going to rape them is a valuable contribution to an argument... please do tell us how!

[Blackthorne]

Perhaps he meant he would just seduce you with his "rapist" wit.  He gets his adjectives screwed up a lot.


Bt

[Domino]

I am no expert in criminal law, but isn't it also illegal to threaten to rape somebody over the internet. I am pretty sure that the authorities would not take this so lightly.

[m0ds]

The thing is Yufster, if you go out and have a similar disucssion with one of your friends, and they say they're offended by something - you don't then continue on and rub it in their face, you accept their stance and you back off a bit - because on most occasions, you respect their feelings.

A lot of these discussions reach the point where people think they are invincible, and because this is the internet - that they can get away with voicing their opinions no matter how harsh they are to other people. I think that's wrong, and that is when a discussion is stepping into dangerous territory. I don't come here to try and offend someone, if I knew I was going to - I simply wouldn't say it at all.

As people say, a lot of these debates are very interesting to read, and it's nice to know where other people stand in relation to them. But when someone gets personally offended, that to me is a violation of what they've come here to do. If it's gone beyond the point where someone can be passive and simply "accept" whats being said, either they should stop being involved or the offending people should just stop rarrling them up. And because it's the internet, everyone is allowed to be involved, so it's just better if the person rarrling people up just stops.

And one thing you very rarely see on internet forums are apologies. No-one, or very few, seem prepared to actually apologise. I can see this thread is partly in spite of my post, but I'm glad. People realised they needed to calm down a bit, and did so. It wasn't the subject matter that was starting to offend me, it was the personal level on which some of the posts were reaching that made me think - come on, why be a jerk?

As LF says, the internet gives us a chance to say things we don't necessarily mean, or would simply not say in real life. That is a dangerous tool, hence why day by day the world becomes a more shite place to live, policies here, policies there... If we as people, who use the net on a day by day basis, started to treat it as if it WAS real life, things would be better, and less people would get offended. This is simply because after saying or reading things on the internet, some might think it's then possible to go outside the internet and get similar reactions, where as in most cases they don't, and possibly end up getting gunned down by an AK47.

You yourself come from Ireland. A place where many people are divided because they simply cant agree whether bread and wine actually IS the blood and body of Christ. One side wouldn't contest the other in real life because of fear of a brawl, so why contest it online? Just because you're behind a screen doesn't make it any less RIGHT. Yes, it makes it more SAFE, but definitely not RIGHT.

Anyway, saying that - a small amount of trolling flaming etc can be funny. Especially when those people involved are blatently pricks. But that's not always the case, as with the racism thread with people like Matt, who most people here generally like and have no problem with. I see high points & low points in a lot of the conversations on this board, and generally just read and decide not to post. But when something like racism which should either be taken seriously, or in a completely joking manner (which that post was NOT trying to promote, otherwise we would've all laughed off what Kramer did) & it starts to get personal, really annoys me, and flaming then becomes completely un-neccesary.

[Meowster]

Hmm, I actually find that apologies happen far more on internet forums that in real life...! Particularly AGS forums... that's something I've always loved about it, that people really aren't afraid to apologise if they've upset someone... like for instance, ManicMatt, right there is an example of people immediately apologising when they realise the seriousness of his situation.

By the way, this thread wasn't at all in spite of your post...! I'm going to be honest... I didn't read your post

This thread was actually mostly because of SkyFire, because he's made me appreciate how many decent people are actually on this board and how the discussions we have, while they often become quite heated arguments... aren't actually generally nasty. And people DO apologise and learn, and I like that!


As for me being from Ireland... I did know a girl who was EXTREMELY anti-English, and as I am English I did get quite a lot of "shit" from her. She was extremely aggressive and that's what I don't like... that's the kind of person SkyFire is putting himself across as being. He can't win an argument in public, so he sneakily says nasty things to people via PM. It's underhand and unpleasant, but I don't see a point in reporting him as so few people get banned on this forum ever. However, I can deal with one unpleasant person. Everyone else I know here is fine... even people I don't particularly like, because they're not nasty and vicious, they just mind their own business. They don't bother threatening you in PM because you have disagreed with them.

But a lot of people in Ireland (I'm from the South where things are generally peaceful!)... a lot of people are fine, and will discuss things and, yes, they'll become heated... but that's it, that's all.


The reason I love AGS is because you can have this angry debates and not fall out with people, and not be afraid to apologise and see others point of view. At least, that's the way I've always seen AGS forums...

[m0ds]

Well, having events like Mittens and Ronittens certainly helps, because then you know you'll be in deep shit if you've said something bad about or to one of the attenndees...

like for instance, ManicMatt, right there is an example of people immediately apologising when they realise the seriousness of his situation.

Sure, but it took a little intervention for any of those apologies to surface. Apologies are all good, but really shouldn't be necessary in the first place, because as I said - people should be more wary and accepting of personal beliefs. I've rarely had to apologise for something I've said to a person in real life, and if I found myself apologising constantly online - I would wonder what's wrong with me.

[Meowster]

Ah, of course apologies should be necessary! Even in an ideal world, people are going to disagree or cross each others paths, and apologising is a wonderful thing to do!

And it's not all just for having directly insulted Matt on purpose... one person on that thread apologised for having said something without REALISING he would be offended... you see? Immediately I have more respect for that person...


In an IRL situation, people would be far less eager to apologise... IRL people hold grudges far more easily and for far longer... don't you find?

[m0ds]

Yes, I suppose you're right.

My conclusion is: Screw the internet, I want real life back

[Domino]

I want an apology from the internet for taking up much of my life, and also for costing me 30 dollars a month.

[Meowster]

Yes, I suppose you're right.

My conclusion is: Fuck the internet, I want real life back

But people are so much less tolerant in Real Life!!!!

"real life" is such a ridiculous phrase hahaaha...

I've proven you wrong, now you have to buy me a drink sometime (6 pack of import heineken in oddbins, £4.50, I'll give you my postal address in PM)

[m0ds]

Okay, face-to-face life. Hows that?

I'd have happily bought you drinks at Brittens if you'd have ever turned up the many times you said you would, so NO, no Heineken delivery for you. And I'd be quite happy to deny that to you to your face, too!

[Raggit]

HEY! I WANT SOMEBODY TO SEND ME OFFENSEVE IMs, PREFERRABLY W/ A SUBJECT LINE AND CORRESPONDING SUBJECT MATTER OF HOTT TEEN RACISTS PUNCHING EACHOHTERS PENISES!1!!1!!1!!!!11!!!!!11!

to quote one of those funny in jokes no one but 12 17 teen year olds who went to summer camp will get, "I don't get it" [laughter]
Is the above meant to be ironic, or is he (or she, but i'm thinking he) really a phreakin' nut job?

I think he/she posted it for comic relief on this edgy topic.

Yes, HE posted it pretty much for his own amusement because he was bored, and wanted to see how folks would react, and it has nothing to do with him being a phreaking nut job.

I thought it was quite hilarious, and I giggled and giggled like a little school boy while reaching for the peanut butter... 

Okay, seriously, I'll stop before Mark Foley comes knocking on my door.

As far as the discussion about grudges and apologies go, I'm not sure why somebody would hold a longer grudge against another in "real life" than on the net.  Particularly if you see that person daily. 

Sure, you may have had a big fight, but as time passes, you start seeing the things you originally liked in that person to begin with and all is calm.

On the net, there's a lot more anonymity, and it generally has the same effect.  You may at first avoid getting into discussions that person is in, but after a while, everybody forgets it, and we move on. 

[Gregjazz]

Solidify or polarize, Greg?

Hmm, actually polarize. But the polarizations are solidified.