Grand Theft Auto IV

[Nacho]

I just finished it... The last mission is a bit "Vin Disel", again, which makes me feel weird, since all the action has been "mildly realistic", like in "The Score" movie, or something like that... Well... I prefered GTA:SA as a game, but Liberty City is ultra cool.

[[Cameron]]

Emerald, sure they were portrayed as a bunch of drug taking degenerates, but well.... they are a criminal family, with Irish heritage. They've lived in America for a long time, and only the oldest one, who I guess still feels for his homeland, is the one involved in IRA activities and mentions anything about seeing action back there. Packie is practically a fully fledged American, and a low level thug, and much like low level thugs dealing in drugs, he himself has a problem. In real life you'd have to go very high up the food chain to find someone who isn't using. Sure they use some cliches, but they aren't ramming them down our throats. They use them to sort of layer the character and give them their personalities.
Did you expect Irish characters who had lived in this New York like environment since they were children to grow up with amazingly strong accents? Sure they'd have some occasional odd inflections and bastardization of terms, but it's because they were more American than Irish.
Also I thought this game was a step up from San Andreas. I thought it was a major step up. CJ was a character I felt no sympathy for. His mother is dead, so he returns to SA. Fair enough, and he sticks around a while. Suddenly he becomes involved in these criminal activities. Why? What possible reason does he have? He doesn't have a real connection to the streets. If he did, he wouldn't have left in the first place. He wants a better life, so he proceeds to throw himself in the opposite direction.
Vice City, you were a criminal through and through. Tommy was 100% criminal and psychotic. He did what he did because he wanted money, and he wanted power, it was what drove his entire existence. Unsympathetic, but at least he had a true reason for what he was doing.
Then with GTA4 we have a character who is trying to escape this world, and he continually tries to escape only to have it once more thrust upon him, leaving him with no options. A truly sympathetic character that lead to one of the most enthralling stories of any game I've played. Sure all those custom options were changed. They fit with SA, but they wouldnt have with this game. Pimping a car in Liberty City would have been ridiculous. Or giving Niko some crazy new haircut and bling. The guy buys clothes, just like regular people. He is (more so than other characters) just a regular guy fighting against insurmountable odds. That's why I think this game really surpassed the others. The incredible story line, the rich characters and an overall enjoyable game. Never was there missions that frustrated me beyond belief, leaving me to give up the game awhile so as not to crush my controller with pure fury. Many of such type were in SA.
Anyway
End rant.

[Emerald]

^^^ That's exactly what I didn't like. I'm all for realism in games, but Grand Theft Auto is one game that is supposed to be as fun as possible, not as realistic as possible.

Niko is a one-man-army who never dies no matter how many times he blows up, and is completely forgotten about the minute he leaves the cop's sight, no matter how many thousands of innocent citizens he kills. Speaking of which, his personality is completely inconsistent -- one minute he's massacring a warehouse full of men for no reason other than some guy he met for the first time told him to (shouting "I'LL RIP YOUR FUCKING HEART OUT!" as he does) for a couple hundred bucks, the next minute he's comforting some girl he just met as she cries on his shoulder.

Spoiler

The missions themselves are ridiculous: "Hey, let's like, rob the city's main bank without any sort of getaway plan or exit route"
"Look, I don't trust you enough for you to go on a real mission, so instead I want you to take this sniper rifle and cover me while I stand around like a suicidial idiot...", etc.

[close]

GTA is not, and will never be 'realistic'. The only difference is, GTA4 is slightly more realistic than SA, but not by much. The only major improvment would be Niko over CJ. The things I miss are:

- Proper Car Storage (like the system from Saints Row, where you don't have to drive back to your storage every single time)
- Car modification (out of place or not, it's just not as fun without it)
- Cooler weapons (what happened to the flame thrower, minigun, katana, C4, etc. -- not to mention dual-wielding shotguns)
- Haircuts/tattoos/jewelry (it just made things less interesting for me. I mean, why even list 'shops' as a separate category if all you can buy is clothes?)
- Stats (I personally liked the stats, and how your character evolves depending on your play-style -- you over-eat, and you get fat. That was awesome. It sucks that Niko is permanently pot-bellied)
- Parachutes/sky-diving
- Gang wars/Territories (I was disappointed you couldn't say, earn territory for the McReary's from the mafia)
- Vehicle-based missions (pimping, fire-fighting, paramedic, etc.)
- Rewards for missions (50% more armour, immunity to fire, 50% more health, all taxis had nitro -- that was cool)
- Tanks, bicycles, hovercrafts (I don't even understand why they weren't included)
- More interesting characters (everyone in GTA4 seems to be the same -- either a low-life drug addict who you 'help out', or a big-time imperialist Toreno-clone. What happened to Woozie and Big Smoke and The Truth and classic characters like that?)
- More interesting/varied missions (it seems like every single mission in GTA4 was either a car chase or a shoot-out. Or both.)


Sacrificing those things for a story that really wasn't that much better than San Andreas seems wrong. This, to me, was the first GTA which was less fun than the previous one -- they actually removed good stuff rather than added stuff in...

[[Cameron]]

Who said Grand Theft Auto is supposed to be as fun as possible and not as realistic as possible? I don't remember Rockstar saying that. I doubt you'd find it in their design brief. If it was to be as fun as possible, why not have a game where giant animals run through the city and you can blow them for a million dollars each? That'd be fun. But it wouldn't mesh with the story would it? Unless we're in some freakish Bizarro realm.

I don't think Rockstar were going for an ultra realistic approach, I think they were just trying to create a truly new experience for fans of the series and games in general. I think they achieved that. And yes, Niko kills a whole lot of people for some money then consoles a crying girl. That doesn't give take away, that adds to his character. He's a trained soldier, who was once involved and a horrendous war. Taking out a few guys in a warehouse is not that big a deal for him. And when doing so, he does it because he wants Roman and himself to be free of this man's tyranny, and wants a better life, if that involves doing some criminal things, than that's ok in the big picture of freedom.

And yeah, he shouts at people. He's in a combat zone, what do you expect him to do? He has to hate his enemy, and he has to scare them. His shouting is an effective method of psyching himself up, and psyching the enemy out. That just means he's a trained soldier, who will get the job done, for the greater good, just like every soldier in the world believes they are doing. Does this make them incapable of feeling empathy?

Also, how else do you expect him to prove himself? The person you  protect is a low level thug? Would the character giving you the mission care if that person died? Not really. I think it was fair enough as a means to proving yourself.

As for characters in the game, yes there are low life criminals with drug problems. What else would you expect? Niko walks off the ship, and the Russians show him a good time of Christianity and abstinence? Niko starts at the bottom level and slowly, very slowly works his way up to meeting new people. But he himself is still a bottom level criminal doing the ground work for those above him. All the characters he meets in the game are very true to their environment, it gives the game a real feeling of a living breathing city, instead of some cut out set for ridiculous characters dance about in front of.

Gang wars would be impossible considering the setting of the game. With a city devoted to safety like it is, due to the war on terror, and the large police presence, having a gang war would end in seconds. You'd shoot three guys, and get killed by the ten cops that swarm in and save the world.

And a lot of the other things mentioned. In this game they would have seemed out of place. They wouldn't have meshed with the story and would have come across as juvenile, in an overall more adult experience. Note that I didn't say realistic. I don't think it comes close to real life, but it is an overall more adult tone. Having those functions would in essence be giving a pacifier to a 42 year old.

[evenwolf]

I'll make this post for a little "lack of paragraph relief" on the eyes.


Well GTA4 aside,  I was mostly interested in talking about ethnic stereotypes in movies.    Marlon Brando was a big proponent of Native Americans & defending those peoples from the Hollywood indian.

If I make a new topic on stereotypes it might get stale quick though, seeing as not many people jumped in on this one.

[Nacho]

I agree with Cameron that Rockstar hasn' t said that their goal is to make the games as funnier as possible.

When did they say their goal is to make the games as realistic as possible?

[Domino]

I shot a pigeon and right away had the cops on my ass...that was BS!!

I was on Happiness Island when i saw the pigeon...well the game calls them Flying Rats, which are the same as Hidden Packages in the other GTA's.

[evenwolf]

Shooting a firearm in a metropolis full of people SHOULDN'T get the cops attention?

[Domino]

That is what makes the game fun..you have to pay for your actions, even shooting a stupid bird. 

[Domino]

Sorry for double posting and bumping this thread...but i can't believe that this made it through testing without being found.  A spelling mistake.



Could be intentional, don't know.

In GTA: SA they spelled Martial Arts as Marital Arts which was a mistake also.

Right now trying to beat a mission that i keep failing.

edit: just beat the mission. 

[evenwolf]

Probably a typo. However there are even more misspellings in the real world.

I remember talking to the owner of a Chinese/Vietnamese Restaurant called Hoa Hoa.   The owner told me that it's really supposed to be "Hao Hao" but after it was misspelled they just went with the flow.