London Riots - OR - What's your favourite thing about Hitler?

[Atelier]

EDIT: Wait I just reread the thread. Some of you are suggesting *shooting at them*? Like.. with guns?

Not with live ammunition Talking rubber bullets, water cannons, and the like.

In my opinion they lose their citizenship when they put on a balaclava and go out for a night of sticking their middle finger up at society.

In my opinion, and by coincidence the law, they don't.

Ok, but I ask myself why is it like that in the first place?

These people have destroyed whole communities (economically, physically, socially), so why are they shown leniency before during and after? I know it would be different if these were legitimate anger-fueled protests. But they're not! People are just calling on their mates, crawling out the woodwork, and going out for a bit of free late-night shopping. Anybody would be disillusioned to say these people have a cause. Their only cause is to loot phone shops and businesses then burn down flats and wreck cars for the lols. In one area they looted a charity shop. What the hell is the point in that?

And in my book, if you have an attitude like that towards society, you don't deserve to be part of society. What is so wrong with that?

[Calin Leafshade]

And in my book, if you have an attitude like that towards society, you don't deserve to be part of society. What is so wrong with that?

Because people make mistakes. These are *kids*. You think they should be just kicked out of society for a mistake at 16 years old?

[ddq]

Shooting people is bad. Rioting is bad too.
I wish people could be nice and stuff.

[Sam.]

What makes this hard is differentiating between people with an actual grievance and people who want to take whatever they can grab from JD Sports because "it's free ennit".

There are many people in this country who feel disenfranchised by the cuts the government have been forced to make during recent times, and for some, this is the only way they feel they can make themselves heard. Shooting rubber bullets and bean bags might stop the violence but it won't cure the problem that allows it to happen. Sure, "thugs" have taken hold of this grievance as an excuse, but it doesn't stop there being a grievance to address. Until we can establish proper communications across the strata of society end everyone can feel like they are being represented, this will not go away.

The violence should stop. It should not be stopped with tear gas.

[InCreator]

I'm not sure about offering cookies and milk to rebels. Throughout history, violent and severe suppression has been first choice method when dealing with rebellion of any kind. England should have rich and colorful history/experience on that matter... In Russia, OMON (special purpose police unit) usually blockades rioting mass, breaks into smaller groups, which are forced into separate streets and beaten until everybody wants to go home. Cruel and undemocratic yes, but...

Thing is, it works. Without bullets and heavy number of casualties.
Also, this guarantees orderly innocents normal life. You don't care about police scolding some hoodlums when alternatively, you could get robbed and beaten by that same angry mob instead.

However high our pacifist/anarchist dreams might be, a city/community of the size and ethnic mixture like London has, the law and order must be concrete to make it all work. But of course, it's a free world and choosing to cower in your home while angry mob is burning your car to give ruling power a middle finger and news networks something to chew, while thinking if that shop you work at is still there next morning -- is a choice like any other and not to be criticized... 

[Sughly]

I kind of stumbled into this thread since I'm currently waiting in Seoul in transit to London  

I'm only there for 3 days before I continue on to France but still... sucky timing on my part. Are they settling down at all? I'm a bit out of the news loop...

[Tuomas]

I hear Tuesday night was not so bad and the locals say it's quite safe to go around, especially in tourist areas...

If in fact, Great Britain has become a totalitarian state and an unable country like Russia at its best, such riots are expected, and then there needs to be a solution to them. Either you learn how to extinguish your peoples opinions day after day or you find out what's wrong, like civilized countries do, and try to work it out. Hell, the society is there because of the people, and if they keep fucking with them, things like this are bound to happen. And this can be considered an educational example. No, you can't go shooting them, you'll have another riot, which you'll then shoot down again. You'll start a culture of riots and chaos like in countries that really have nothing to do with democracy. GB is going there, fast too, but the cure is to weigh the options, why are the people acting up as they are and what can be done? The solution is a national change in politics, in the approach, that is what makes everyone frustrated, and NOT by shooting them until they go home, lick their wounds and come back again to collect some more rubber.

At this point the guy shot down in his car means nothing, people are angry at the ones who tell them what and how to do, and it's going to continue until something is done. You can't give someone a reason to fight and then complain when he's doing so.

[WHAM]

Let me see:

The people are revolting because the police are too brutal and the budget cuts are hitting the poor.
They riot, which will eventually force the police to act even more brutally.
The riots break public property, which has to be repaired and the repair funds come out of tax money, which in turn will cause the budget to suffer.

Result: either no effect or negative effect in police attitudes, even worse financial situation likely to force government to even more budget cuts, which will hit the poor.

Wait the piss in your own cereal!

EDIT: Rubber bullets are now ready and authorized! Only 4 days too late!

[LUniqueDan]

Stole from Massive Attack FB account :

In context with the complicit support of the government, the banks looted the nation's wealth while destroying countless small businesses and brought the whole economy to its knees in a covert, clean manner, rather like organised crime.

Our reaction was to march and wave banners and then bail them out. These kids would have to riot and steal every night for a year to run up a bill equivalent to the value of non-paid tax big business has 'avoided' out of the economy this year alone.
They may not articulate their grievances like the politicians that condemn them but this is absolutely political. As for the 'mindless violence'… is there anything more mindless than the British taxpayer quietly paying back the debts of others while contributing bullets to conflicts that we have absolutely no understanding of?

It's mad, sad and scary when we have to take to the streets to defend our homes and businesses from angry thieving kids, but where are the police and what justice is ever done when the mob is dressed in pin stripe.


This, and Matti's post sum my position.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

There are many people in this country who feel disenfranchised by the cuts the government have been forced to make during recent times, and for some, this is the only way they feel they can make themselves heard.

One must draw a rigid line between peaceful protest and anarchy.  Looting is NOT a political statement, it's a statement of people being out of control and reckless and dangerous.  As to why the police were ordered to stand down, I have my own theory, and it has a lot to do with restricting the rights of decent ukers to join and form peaceful protest groups.

Also, and I say this with all honesty, Amazon should be ashamed of themselves for banning ukers from purchasing defensive items to protect themselves and their families and they should not have given in to political pressure to do so.  When you no longer have a right to protect yourself, your belongings, and your family, you may as well be a slave.  Seeing videos of the uk police going around and harassing decent shop owners for defending themselves is nothing less than disgusting to me and should be disgusting to any liberty minded individual.

Make no mistake, I am NOT on the side of the looters.  They are scum, plain and simple.  They have run over people, set innocent shop owners' businesses on fire, and ransacked and pillaged just because they were ALLOWED to get away with it by the police.

I think Sam's point has merit, but not in the case of the looters.  To be sure, there are and must be many ukers that, like many Americans, are sick and tired of government enforced 'austerity' brought on by corrupt bankers who sold us all onto a ponzi scheme of trillions of dollars in fake derivatives.  For these people I have the greatest sympathy, the middle class especially who is being targeted and systematically eradicated.  These people have legitimate reasons for protest, but when you rebel against the SYSTEM, you don't go looting shop-owners...You storm parliament, you burn the homes of the politicians you see as corrupt, you REVOLT against the people responsible.  And I'm not saying it's good to burn down parliament officials' homes, either, but at least then I could say 'yeah, these people are in rebellion'.

What I see in the uk right now isn't a rebellion or a protest, it's just some punks and scumbags hurting honest people because they can get away with it.  Meanwhile, this 'event' will be used to further restrict the rights of actual protesters from peaceably gathering and making their voices heard. 

[Dualnames]

Riots. Well, I used to believe they are utterly pointless, and sometimes they are. Sometimes they are just a way to kill a movement. But frankly the situation in the world is getting worse every day. Cause this is capitalism. And well, the main thing about capitalism is that , well, rich get richer.

The fact that people break things isn't always the best thing, I'd prefer if it was the parliament, any given day. But well, reaction is a start. Saying that "a riot shall be peaceful and stuff", I'd like to be pointed to a revolution anywhere in any part of the world, at any time, that didn't include a shed of blood.

You can't also expect that people on both sides won't think of doing something stupid. Whether that is police violence out of nowhere, or looting. I'm honestly shaken to see people here and facebook, be so closeminded.

And I wish all that hatred taken to lamp posts and stores and everything else in the way, was just focused on something else.
What I'm saying and i hope I'm not really misunderstood, is that a reaction is good.

[WHAM]

I've been keeping track of the news and I've noticed one really great thing: the media are publishing NAMES of people who have been convicted of looting and rioting. This is GREAT!

I think all who are caught and found guilty of looting and violence should get their names and faces and even home addresses posted all over the media and the internet. I can imagine the future of these people, going into job interviews and getting turned down due to their criminal history so they will have to live in misery for the rest of their short days.

Ah, if only the world were so perfect...

[Grim]

This is no revolution or manifestation of freedom- this is a bunch of kids who never bothered to work stealing TVs for the sake of having fun. I read something about taking away their benefits and I really hope that happens- these lazy bastards get paid by hard working people's taxes, well, hopefully not for much longer.

  Someone I know suggested we take all hoodies out of the country  and onto an isolated island on the Pacific... Now, wouldn't that be great? Until they'd figured how to build boats and come back we'd get ourselves few years of peace and quiet...

[Chicky]

Boats? I think you rate their intelligence a little high Grim, these guys can't even make it to the Job Centre.

[Dualnames]

This is no revolution or manifestation of freedom- this is a bunch of kids who never bothered to work stealing TVs for the sake of having fun.

And how do you know of such fact, may I inquire you?

[Grim]

This is no revolution or manifestation of freedom- this is a bunch of kids who never bothered to work stealing TVs for the sake of having fun.

And how do you know of such fact, may I inquire you?

I read a paper.

[WHAM]

The finnish newspaper (rag) "Iltalehti" had a small story in which they listed some of the rioters who had been accused already: 11 year old child (too young to take any responsibility), schoolhteacher (good luck having any credibility in your job now), high-school student (missed her exams due to being in jail for a week, has a rich father)...

The list just goes on!

These were not young people without jobs. These are idiots with functional lives who just noticed a chance to have a spot of "fun" and get free stuff while having "fun".

[Dualnames]

And how sure are you, that the paper is telling the truth? Cause we all know how media are so TRUTHFUL.

[WHAM]

I don't know and I dont care. I just hope as many rioters as possible suffer as much as possible.  8)

[Dualnames]

I don't know and I dont care. I just hope as many rioters as possible suffer as much as possible.  8)

And here comes the big silly question. Why?