London Riots - OR - What's your favourite thing about Hitler?

[NsMn]

I don't quite see how speeding is a threat to society as long as you don't cause an accident claiming 20 lives.

[veryweirdguy]

For the record, of all the death experienced in my life, outside of 'old age' and 'disease', most has been caused by car accidents, likely a result of speeding.

But that's not the point. Speeding. Murder. Downloading a song illegally. Honking your car horn after 11pm (in the UK). Opening someone else's mail. All these things are deemed, by our society, as "crimes", doing any of them makes you a "criminal", and thus a different species. Therefore doing one is as bad as the rest and you should be eliminated in the final solution! Or so I understand it.

[TomatoesInTheHead]

Also note that many convicted speeders don't hesitate to speed again, they're really not resocializable!
I guess the percentage of recidivists (identified or not) is much higher among speeders than among murderers. So I'm also in for shooting them in the nuts, at least, and behead them publicly if they do it ever again.

[Tuomas]

But I guess all is well as long as you don't found a party or something.

Hell, in Finland there is this thing caled "piraattipuolue", which is basically a party for software pirates who "defend people's rights".

LINK: http://www.piraattipuolue.fi/english

I know one of the guys leading a group here in Tampere, he's actually hoping to get RID of copyright laws as "they hamper peoples freedom, man". A man actively participating in a legit party in Finland is seriously saying "we should not have to pay for Windows".

Also, one of the candidates of this party for the cabinet is a pornstar who actually filmed and distributed an election porn flick on the internet (google it if you dare: "vaaliporno 2011", it's so ridiculous its funny!).

Me starting a political party in this country doesn't seem that far fetcheched now, does it? I'll have to look into that in a few years.

The same people in Tampere told the newspapers, that we'd be able to provide work for every immigrant woman, if we make them all prostitutes. And everyone will be happy, the get money, we get laid.

[WHAM]

It appears my earlier definition of the two major levels of crime "petty crime" and "hard crime" has gone unnoticed in this argument. It's those "petty criminals" who are not quite a burden on society, as their crimes, as long as they are not repeatedly committed, can be punished by fines which *gasp* bring money to the government! Or if the subject is unable to pay their fines, they can be forced to WORK (you know, just like we do nowadays, its called community service).

And are you truly saying you have NEVER, EVER broken one single law? I doubt that very much.

AND FURTHER: are you also saying that anyone who has ever driven too fast on a motorway has automatically commited vehicular manslaughter? If we start accusing people of crimes that MIGHT HAVE happened but DIDN'T, then that would be troubling even by my standards.

And why does calling something a "final solution" make me an asshole? That's just as silly as saying anyone who raises their arm as a greeting is a nazi, because the nazi's did it! (What is commonly known as "Sieg Heil" was also used by the U.S. Navy, among others, as an official military greeting long before the Germans started using it)

This is my honestly, truhfully purposed final solution to the faults in our justice and prison systems. The name does not make it better or worse.

[voh]

Giving the Hitler salute is generally frowned upon and a criminal offence in Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. Also among the generally frowned upon things is using the term 'final solution'.

What is commonly known as "Sieg Heil" was also used by the U.S. Navy, among others, as an official military greeting long before the Germans started using it

You're referring to the Bellamy salute. Which was similar to the nazi salute. Which the nazis stole from the Italian fascists, who stole it from the Romans. Your argument, however, is so flawed it's ridiculous.

In order to prevent further confusion or controversy, President Franklin D. Roosevelt instituted the hand-over-the-heart gesture as the salute to be rendered by civilians during the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem in the United States, instead of the Bellamy salute.

They stopped using it specifically due to the nazi connection. So yes, there's something wrong with people who give the nazi salute.

[InCreator]

Giving the Hitler salute is generally frowned upon and a criminal offence in Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. Also among the generally frowned upon things is using the term 'final solution'.

Most U.S. presidents still give Hitler salute. George W. Bush did it especially energetically, Obama does too. I've always wondered why.

The same people in Tampere told the newspapers, that we'd be able to provide work for every immigrant woman, if we make them all prostitutes. And everyone will be happy, the get money, we get laid.

Well, those people are not to be taken seriously then, because as most other university towns in northern Europe, clubs of Tampere are packed with single girls, dancing with each other or sadly waiting until their so-called boyfriends get drunk enough to make a move. At least this is what I saw this summer when visited friend there. What do they need prostitutes for?

[WHAM]

The swastika, red-black-and-white, the iron cross, Scwartze Sonne, the Vicroty Salute, the term "Final solution"...

These are all symbols and terms that can mean many things, but which most people are silly enough to still connect to the long-gone Reich. I do not see why this needs to be. I find it just plain silly how people are still scared of the symbols like they are the name of Voldemort from Harry Potter. "Shhhhh, Harry! You don't say that name or He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named will return with his silly mustache and murder all the Jews!"

[kconan]

http://www.theage.com.au/world/britains-feral-underclass-how-the-system-failed-a-nation-20110907-1jwoa.html

According to this article, over 75 percent of the adults charged with participating in the riots have criminal records.

[Tuomas]

Well, those people are not to be taken seriously then, because as most other university towns in northern Europe, clubs of Tampere are packed with single girls, dancing with each other or sadly waiting until their so-called boyfriends get drunk enough to make a move. At least this is what I saw this summer when visited friend there. What do they need prostitutes for?

Funny, how when during all those years I lived in Tampere it felt like quite the opposite. The city has a big tech university that covers at least 50% of the youth there, and little for girls 20+ to do. So what I've experienced in Tampere is that usually there's just guys everywhere, too much sausage on the dance floor, you know?

The swastika, red-black-and-white, the iron cross, Scwartze Sonne, the Vicroty Salute, the term "Final solution"...

These are all symbols and terms that can mean many things, but which most people are silly enough to still connect to the long-gone Reich. I do not see why this needs to be. I find it just plain silly how people are still scared of the symbols like they are the name of Voldemort from Harry Potter. "Shhhhh, Harry! You don't say that name or He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named will return with his silly mustache and murder all the Jews!"

I can relate to this. I've been studying freedom of opinion and speech in Germany after the war, but realised quickly, that there really aren't anything published under said label except for essays on nazi-zeit Meinungsfreiheit, which we all know is like beating a dead horse. Of course people associate images and sounds to those feelings that they're most often connected to. If a logo reminds you of a group, company etc, it's good and works. These symbols became the symbols of fear for a lot of people, and the idea has been passed on in history books. It is easy for neo-nazis to use these again because they already have the expected meaning and thus need no explaining. For example the rainbow wasn't an obvious gay-thing until it became so common, that you don't see straight nazi-arians wearing rainbow t-shirts. It's the same with the US flag. It's not something you just put as the logo of your company because it's already in use and has a meaning, to all people on earth, most probably. These are highly influential symbols that always deliver the same message. If Germany for example started putting swastikas up everywhere on red flags and tanks and cannons, people would react accordingly. They couldn't say "it's just a logo" in a world, where every color even has its own meaning.

[InCreator]

Funny, how when during all those years I lived in Tampere it felt like quite the opposite. The city has a big tech university that covers at least 50% of the youth there, and little for girls 20+ to do. So what I've experienced in Tampere is that usually there's just guys everywhere, too much sausage on the dance floor, you know?

Well, I was there somewhere in July I think? Maybe most of male students were at their home cities at the moment. We visited most clubs in city I think and picture remained pretty much as I described. Guys often sent angry looks at exchange students who hit on girls and concentrated on drinking while girls showed inhuman patience... eh, who knows. I'm not an insider.

[Tuomas]

Well of course the whole purpose of hanging around in discos and bars is to get effin drunk, otherwise they wouldn't serve alcohol

[Monsieur OUXX]

http://www.theage.com.au/world/britains-feral-underclass-how-the-system-failed-a-nation-20110907-1jwoa.html

According to this article, over 75 percent of the adults charged with participating in the riots have criminal records.

INCREDIBLE!!!! DO YOU ACTUALLY MEAN THAT... ANGRY POOR PEOPLE ARE NOT INNOCENTS?
Wait a minute... Would that mean that there is a link between social distress and criminality!?!

This is the craziest piece of news I've ever heard.

I won't be as crazy as to suggest wasting less saliva on discussing "how those guys should be punished", but instead "how to relieve that distress on the long term". That would be totally loco!

[WHAM]

I won't be as crazy as to suggest wasting less saliva on discussing "how those guys should be punished", but instead "how to relieve that distress on the long term". That would be totally loco!

I thought we were discussing both at the same time?

[Monsieur OUXX]

I won't be as crazy as to suggest wasting less saliva on discussing "how those guys should be punished", but instead "how to relieve that distress on the long term". That would be totally loco!

I thought we were discussing both at the same time?

That's not what I've read... Especially from you (without sarcasm).

[WHAM]

I should really stop coming to this thread, but it seems my points keep getting misunderstood for some reason.

In any case, Mr. OUXX, what I have been promoting is harsh and decisive action to remove criminal elements from society, and turning this venture from the drain on government funds into a productive and profitable proposition through commercialization of the process (a concept proven as viable a couple of millenia ago, and time and time again after that). If we can accomplish this, we will see less criminal elements and as managing these criminal elements are less of an issue we will have greater resources at our disposal in maintaining public services, physical and mental healthcare, support for the needy and so forth.

I know this proposition alone is not the magical solution to all of mankind's ills and shortcomings, but I believe it is the most direct and immediate way towards the improvement process.

[Dualnames]

I love you Wham, and whether your opinion seems to be on whatever side of the lemon, i love the lemon too.

[Snarky]

I should really stop coming to this thread, but it seems my points keep getting misunderstood for some reason.

Gee, I certainly hope so, because as far as I can tell, your points amount to "I am a neo-Nazi." (Arguing that "Sieg Heil", the swastika, "Final Solution" and Hitler salute do not necessarily signify Nazism is the purest form of bullshit, and comes off as the thinnest possible excuse to keep cloaking your argument in Nazi symbols and terminology.)

In related news, this thread has convinced me that WHAM and people who think like him are worse people and more dangerous to society than the rioters (whom I absolutely believe should be prosecuted and punished, BTW).

[Nikolas]

In related news, this thread has convinced me that WHAM and people who think like him are worse people and more dangerous to society than the rioters (whom I absolutely believe should be prosecuted and punished, BTW).

You did all that from an Internet forum thread? Yikes!  :o (especially the point for a specific forum member... other than that I'd also like to see the rioters prosecuted and punished).

[NsMn]

I should really stop coming to this thread, but it seems my points keep getting misunderstood for some reason.

Gee, I certainly hope so, because as far as I can tell, your points amount to "I am a neo-Nazi." (Arguing that "Sieg Heil", the swastika, "Final Solution" and Hitler salute do not necessarily signify Nazism is the purest form of bullshit, and comes off as the thinnest possible excuse to keep cloaking your argument in Nazi symbols and terminology.)

That is the shittiest logic ever. That's like saying that someone who argues that a certain nazi Party isn't far-right is a Neo-Nazi.