Because of the nomination awards thread, I checked the games released this year!
We have around 150 games!
I imagine that this discussion might have already been done in the past, but I can't help but notice and propose some things:
With 150 games, we are bound to have games that are worthy of more attention than others. And this is where the awards come in. Since we do have awards for games made with AGS, would it be a good idea to have a CD/DVD with all these games and actually sell it? This could motivate game authors and companies alike to work harder and produce better games, in every sense.
With the money generated by this CD, there could be a kind of system, I don't know, like 10% for CJ and the rest 90% for the 9 games (convinient number that's why), another 10% each.
Of course the games are freeware and free to download, but still if you have 700Mb or 4.4Gb it is worth paying 10$/GBP and supporting this community. And you get the best games from 2005.
Any ideas?
Has this been discussed before? Please say no!
Making money with games has been discussed. It's up to the creators to aks for money from it if they deem it's worth it.
This idea has my full dissupport, as it'd get to a bit of a hassle to arrange it without getting sued, in the worst case.
There is nothing wrong with having a best-of compilation of AGS-games, I guess.
There will be some copyright-issues when it comes to fan-games or games with ripped art or music. This is however a secondary issue, and one to be solved by the producer of such a CD.
Since the games will still be available for free download, there won't be a bunch of people who'll argue and whine about not having enough money etc.
So, given the following:
* The authors of the games give their consent
* The authors hold 100% copyright to their games
* The producer of the CD will not profit from this enterprise
* Some money will go to CJ and the maintenance of the ags forum
then all should be ok, I guess. It's really up to CJ, to start with.
Quote from: Nikolas on Sat 10/12/2005 14:05:08
Of course the games are freeware and free to download, but still if you have 700Mb or 4.4Gb it is worth paying 10$/GBP
There will be some copyright problems with the games if it goes officially. For example, if someone plays something, AGS or not , that seems to have "very influenced" graphics, music etc, they won't start suing people. But if they pay forÃ, a CD, maybe someone will notice...
On the other hand, I think a CD, even paid, is a good idea especially for those on dial-up, provided that the games remain free for those who can't afford or find or simply don't wish to buy the CD and that the game authors are not bypassed.
My average downloads used to be 7 MB and I never downloaded anything bigger than 12-15 MB whan I was on dial up, and this excludes too many good AGS games. I think 10$ for 10 games is a lot cheaper than the average dial up connection.
Considering that each person (CJ and the 9 authors) would only be getting $1 each per cd sold - and that the chances of other authors' egos being offended is rather high - the rewards might not be worth the legal risk.
2 alternate ideas...
1) having a webpage with the "Best of..." AGS games available for a bundled download (probably bittorrent or the like) and maybe a pretty graphic for the CD cover; these could be useful for giving to friends who wouldn't otherwise play adventure games or who are unfortunate enough to have dial-up connections
2) donate for a Director's Cut, "behind the scenes," artwork from the game, templates, etc. I think it was Yahtzee's website where I saw this: for a couple dollars, you would receive the comic book that inspired one game or the Easter Egg version of another game. Bonuses like this could be a lot of fun to put together. It still wouldn't bring in all that much money, but would be rather interesting. (For example, I really loved the design notes included in Ace Quest and wouldn't mind paying $1-2 for design notes on, say, Crave or Anna.)
I'd say that this is not a matter/question for simple forum users to answer:
But the person who organizes it --
and
The creators/copyright holders of these games on CD.
Organizer must provide writing, material (CD's/DVDs/etc) and distribution, creators must give their permissions. For EVERY game on disc.
If you want to do this and get allowance, who can stop you? CJ and these 9 can't refuse a christmas present. Or if they still choose so, there's millions of hungry kids on our planet, why not give them something nice?
What's more to ask? Market research?
Isn't this kind of like the AGS Annual (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=20863.0), then? Or even the AGS on CD (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=22321.0) idea from a while back? Except it would cost money, rather than be produced out of the goodness of mattgoble/Chicky's heart(s).
I think if this was to be done in a more 'official' way, the best way would be to charge a mimimal fee, covering production & delivery, rather than anyone expecting to make a profit. (Or, to sort of steal an idea from InCreator, add 1 USD/GBP, and donate the profits to a charity of the forum/CJ's choice.)
Charity-charity...
This forum is a charity.
Who not use profit for extra bandwidth/start a bandwith emergency fund?
Why not try and convince a whole bunch of people who are about to release games to not release them for free, that way you get a CD full of games that no one has played yet.
Or set it up as a project next year, start of the year people start making new games specifically to be sold on a CD. Some issues with buying an AGS games on a CD would be people not wanting to pay for a game that may not be long at all or has a skimpy story or awkward art. Well, would you buy a CD with 20 games on it?
Hey, Chicky's idea was fantastic and worked really well (for me at least...)
I would have no problems with a "compilation cd" with maybe 10 AGS games on... Maybe you should have CJ make a game for it, which you can only get with the compilation...
Meh.
- Huw
There are a lot of issues to deal with.
The idea first came as a way to give actually some kind of present to CJ (not that he needs one, but something to do for him, without having to go at his place and hugging him and kissing the police, you know...)
The second thing is that there are games now being done with AGS that are actually commercial. The Zone, How to be a Ninja, Will you be my lover? And other games. But still a lot of games are worhty of actually earning some money for the creators and CJ!
I also checked some games released this year and I found out that they have been downloaded around 1000-1500. This could mean 1000-1500$. It's not bad! And actually Apprentice I has been downloaded 20000 times! That's a lot!
There are games that are simply to big to download (this can never happen to a hardcore fan), but for the rest of the population it is a problem. And if you're giving 700Mb with 10 games, then you got a great deal!
And some of the games that are to come out, are already 100Mb! This is not very good...
I have no idea how to organise this and don't know how to deal with copyright issues except if they can be avoided altogether. No ripped music. No ripped graphics! No problems! I don't know how hard this can prove. More over Prodigal has a song at the end by Shadowplay. I know that he has permition to use it, but probably in a freeware game. I have no idea what would've happened if Prodigal was to be commerialised...
Erics idea is good. It could work, motivate and help people make a better job. Who knows, a new tablet, maybe 3d MAX not ripped, Photoshop...
Ashen it actually is like the AGS Annual but I'm talking about something more organised and more publicised.
Of course there is always the danger to lose this happy community feel we have. Cause, it's one thing asking for C&C and having loominous or Andail or Darth doing a paintover, but if the knew that the BG they're working on is going to be commercial I don't know how this could work...
A lot to think about I guess...
What about selling the collaberation game? People would be excited to see what they provided for the game.
CJ has said countless times in the past he doesn't want our money, donations or "earned" or otherwise.
Ok. We won't do it for him then. And it is kinda funny as I have never done a game and I'm the first to bring this up.
But never the less, maybe a little financial reward for the game creators could be good. But again it is their game so...
And for CJ I think that since a game is commercial he gets 10%. I think I've seen this somewhere, but I could be mistaken...
It's an idea. But if it's good or bad I don't know. I honestly seem incapable of deciding between either, and I've been thinking about it since you posted it.
On the one hand - it'd be nice to help people out - but on the other, if it's that important for people to get money from their games, why'd they decide to release it as freeware?
I'd pay for a CD if the proceeds went to something I myself find worthwhile. Giving it to a cancer foundation or something like it, would seem kind of 'moot' to me. Selling it for production cost + shipping would be awesome. I'd pay for what I get. Giving 10% to CJ would be fine with me, so it'd be production cost + shipping + CJ candy.
Personally, I'd prefer to donate some money to the game creators directly. I've donated to Yahtzee twice, for both special editions he released (5 days a stranger and 7 days a skeptic) and I won't regret it, afaik, ever.
Free games are free games and should remain free games. If there would be a CD with both the free games and some bonus material, I'd gladly pay. Otherwise it just seems kind of... redundant.
Yeah, no clear opinion here, but I'll give it more thought :)
CJ may not want your money, but I DO!
I really don't see the need for this except for releases that fall off the map because the designer disappears and the download goes away. In those instances a compilation may be useful.
Or, we can let the money build on some account, pay pal or whatever, and when the time comes we can invest it, be that more bandwith, software tools, stocks, real estate for mittens, whatever.
Tho' a mittens house would be cool. In every continent. West, east, north and south.
And also i think BONUS material would be pretty advisable. At least some.
As yahtzee said: Now I can pay 13 of my phone bill.
Who has knowledge in advertising should do plans like that (game + Bonus, game + undownloadable demo for the sequel(which is actually a bonus), whatever).
Quote from: Czar on Sun 11/12/2005 18:38:38
Tho' a mittens house would be cool. In every continent. West, east, north and south.
Suuure! We'll spend the £100 we earn on the game on mittens mansions. Then we will spread them all around the globe! ;D I like the idea, but it need some serious planning :)
I think that the best idea would go something like this:
Someone decide what are the best/most anticipating (<-see I'm organising this for a lot of time now) games of AGS.
Make contact with the creators of all these games and arrange the copyright issues (if any) and the payment options.
Make a feasible deadline (in 2006 or something).
Put all the games into 1 CD (After you have calculated the size of each game and stuff like that).
Find/Hire someone to make CD Cover and all art.
In the meantime advertise this wherever you can.
Find distributers all around the world.
Arrange taxes and all money matters.
Start selling.
Have the community lose the status, and the feeling and probably the love and kindness and all these things that make this place so special. <-A real danger here.
Note: This community exists because of the love for Adventure Games. Trying to have profit, of any kind, for anyone, would ruin this love? (<-Question here)
It's not a profit != community thing. Many beautiful, classic and near-perfect games have been developed commercially - and have done well. However, you create your game for one or the other. You develop it as a commercial game or you develop it as a freeware game.
You can make a commercial game freeware, but not the other way around. Anyway, not as far as I'm concerned :)
There are different goals for both types - different styles, different choices to make.
Releasing a CD with freeware games would imho need to add definite value. I won't pay 10 USD + shipping for a CD I can burn at home legally, without any problems whatsoever.
Would you?
I'm the same as voh in that I've donated to Yahtzee for his special addition (though only for 5 Days, didn't realise there was a 7 Days SE!).
To be honest, that's the only way I can see myself giving money. I wouldn't pay for a game (I just wouldn't pay for an amateur game, I'm too used to them being free online) and I wouldn't pay after playing a demo, to play the rest.
What Yahtzee did is perfect for me. I played his game, I LOVED it, and later I gave him a few bucks for some extra features to relive the game I loved and see some of the author's comments. I considered it a donation, but a donation I was getting something for. Noone was telling me I had to give money to play the game, which was great. The game itself was free and the game being so -good- is why I felt he deserved the money. But like I said, it wasn't a dnation, it was for a little something extra.
I really like that system.
Quote from: vict0r on Sun 11/12/2005 21:20:10
Quote from: Czar on Sun 11/12/2005 18:38:38
Tho' a mittens house would be cool. In every continent. West, east, north and south.
Suuure! We'll spend the £100 we earn on the game on mittens mansions. Then we will spread them all around the globe! ;D I like the idea, but it need some serious planning :)
Well, the donations shouldn't be based only on the Cd with games and bonus material, but people could really donate to the building of the house(mansion/shack - whatever has four walls and a roof -<insert witty remarks here>). I believe there could be something as a non-profit but still profit organisation inside of AGS. Maybe it will be more clear in a few years, but why not start planning now?
The internet is a crazy thing, and what if this community lasts at least 10 years?
Let's say there are like 20 oldies who have the means to contribute up to 5$ per week. Then you have people who can donate about 5$ per month. Let's say 100 of them can. There are about 600 users with over 50 posts. Let's say half of them donates 1$ per month.
That is 400$ from the oldies a month, 500$ from various folks, 300$ from non-frequent posters per month.
Now, there also goes the age+job factor.
In this plan (which could maybe work for a month or two, and then it could fade slowly), the Mittens cottage fund could raise up to 1200$ per month. With a sum of 14400$ per year, put it in 10 years, a sum of 140.000$ is POSSIBLE. It could be more it could be less, depending on the motivation presented for making the project.
That was just me doing some calculations, but wouldn't it be sweet to have a real gathering place for special occasions?
We can plan. Who of you old forum people had ever tought back in the day that a thing like mittens, or a thing like 3000 users could be possible in the near future?
Maybe i'm wrong, maybe this whole thing will go under in less then a year, but until then i think there are more community bonding options for everyone.
I really like this idea, neone remember when you could buy a bunch of shareware on a cd? this would be a lot like that. HEY I have a IDEA! what if, we make a "Year of MAGS" cd? and include a copy AGS, and a bunch of the best tutorials and freeware development programs on it (paint programs and such). we would include documentation explaning why each MAGS is the way it is. include some bonus materials maybe, sketches and charactor studies and such. what do yah think?
It seems to me that something like Lulu.com (http://lulu.com) wouold be an obvious choice. If I understand correctly there are no minimum quanities or setup costs. They charge about $5 for CD and about $7 for DVD. One only need to create the collection, cover art, and upload the files. Set the price at at the per dick cost and viola! No profit, no harm, no foul.
QuoteSet the price at at the per dick cost
Price per dick? := I'm sure you meant
diskI would gladly finish and contribute a demo of my project, with my partner's permission. I don't know about the pricing schedule you've got there, but I honestly think that, much like when Chris april-fooled everyone about making AGS shareware, most of those on the forums who are capable would like to contribute. I know I would do it, if only to save on time downloading on a dial-up connection.
Czar: About the house/mansion/whatever: You know I have seen advertisements for houses in Bulgaria or some other ex Eastern block country with ridiculous prices. I'm being honest. Was watching TV, a show called "Living Abroad" (or "A place at the sun"), and they had found a 4 bed house, in the middle of a forest, for 15,000 euros. This is easily feasible, if you can find a way to arrange, who stays when...
You have cheap houses here in Croatia too. Some of them are maybe more "rustical" and need a bit of adapting, but it is a cool place for over the summer and stuff.
Really a thing to discuss. :)
Yes, I mean with the 140,000 you mentioned, we can have a whole village!!!!
Or at least an AGS touring Hippie van.
No. Wait!
Two AGS Touring hippie vans.
Oh yeah...
btw we need groupies (and of course, we need groupars for the ladies ( we'll put them in the other van alongside that guy Mark Lovegrove and the Crazy Bunch))
I apologise for the mistake.
Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 12/12/2005 23:13:08
Was watching TV, a show called "Living Abroad" (or "A place at the sun"), and they had found a 4 bed house, in the middle of a forest, for 15,000 euros.
Now, look, I like playing adventure games, I like making them, but I don't like being a NPC in a horror/mystery adventure game, ok??
:P
He he cp.
I just want to make a small digression. What do you people think, should it be an NPC or a NPC.
If we're talking acronyms i definetly say "an".
en pee see