Hey, I thought this might be an interesting topic of discussion
what do you think, excluding religious texts, has been the most important book written? by important, I mean influencual (sp?) history altering, powerful, etc.
My vote goes to the Communist Manefsto, by Karl Marx. This book helped spawn one of the biggest political movements ever, which lead o the creation of a superpower, a dangerous semi-war, and whose docterines were perverted by many a misguided leader into creating corrupt and evil dictatorships
Also getting votes are The Jungle, and the little red book.
your thoughts?
The Book of the Dead. It shows us of tradition, and faith. It is the one thing between Life and Death. It takes us back thounsands of years to a time of loss and to a time of power... It also proves that people take religion way too seriously. :)
"Religion isnt a beleif, it's an idea"
Kama Sutra.
Where the Wild Things Are. No justification necessary for this one.
The Calvin and Hobbes books
Well, seriously, my first idea was Hitlers' book "Mein K...." cant remember the title completly, but without the communist manifesto, i doubt there would be his... so I take mine back.
Moviewise, perhaps the Jurassic Park books....
"Catcher in the Rye" was most important...
before the Bible knocked me out.
Quote from: YakSpit on Mon 18/08/2003 07:11:05
Where the Wild Things Are. No justification necessary for this one.
Man, Couldn't agree more, my favourite book of all time
'Screenwriting From The Soul' by Richard Krevolin.
I think this book has influenced my life most in the last couple of years.
Quote from: Scummbuddy on Mon 18/08/2003 07:15:46
Well, seriously, my first idea was Hitlers' book "Mein K...." cant remember the title completly, but without the communist manifesto, i doubt there would be his... so I take mine back.
"Mein Kampf". Its importance is a little overrated, though, because a) it's much more effect than cause and b) nobody ever read the damn thing anyway - it was given out to Germans by the millions, but it almost always just ended up sitting on some shelf gathering dust.
The book is incredibly badly and tediously written (the reason for this is that the later dictator dictated it all, rambling on and on and repeating himself again and again), and often clumsily phrased to the point of being amusing.
Serdar Somuncu (http://www.somuncu.net), a German/Turkish actor who has toured Europe reading excerpts from it, has said that
Mein Kampf is the best weapon against
Mein Kampf. On several occasions, neonazis have come to readings, sitting in the front row and being demonstratively unamused. The ridiculousness of their great idol's ideas and language never failed to make them uneasy.
I'd add Euclid's
Elements to the list.
well I'm still impressed by Daniel Quinn's Ishmael so I'll stay with that.
where the wild things are also kicked arse
I agree with Panda, the Manifest really changed the world.
By the way, the most important single copy of a book would be The Bible printed by Guthenberg.
Yes, The Bible is the most important book for me, and also lots of others in this world.
Also is the bible the most sold, translated, and read book all over the world! ;)
As a second opinion I say the cookbook is pretty handy, for people like me that can't cook! Cooking a matter of surviving!
Magna Carta don't count, does it?
ooooh, I forget it's name, but the book about Mohammad that isn't the Qur'an, and is all about the prophet's example and things.
I think it counts because it's not strictly a religious text (so it's not dis-counted by the rules of the thread) and yet it plays a whopping part in modling the behavior and social workings of the fasted growing religion on the planet (and has been doing so for WAAAAAY longer than the communist mannifesto has even existed!)
I don't think there's a Christian equivalent, as all the Jesus stuff was put in the Bible... Maybe there's something of matching impact in China and Bhuddist countries, but I've never heard of it.
EDIT:
scrap all that.
It's actually "Where the Wild things are".
Closly followed by the atlas.
you know I once went to an exhibit about artwork in children's books, and there was no reference to WTWTA at all!! I almost complained to the curator!
Um...HELLO? He said 'excluding religious texts'. Those are highly subjective anyway. :P
._. Does Dale Carnegie count? ^_^
Otg: Everything is religious is some way... Everything relates to religion :)
the atlas is a tremendous answer for this question, and it follows the rules of being non religous
best answer ive heard
So the most important book would seem to be Where the Wild Things Are. Rock on. On my bookshelf currently.. it would have to be The Mahdi by Margo Dockendorf
QuoteOtg: Everything is religious is some way... Everything relates to religion
Right, so books like "Lesbian Leather Delight" and "Feel the Whip, My Pretty" are religious.
Mein Kampf is used endlessly by the intentionalists endlessly as proof for their thesis.
Geez, the fellah couldn't plan a paragraph, forget a plan of world domination.
Why must we turn history into a comic book?
DG: There are lesbians in the bible. There are references to sex also :)
ref. to sex in the bible, yes. several. However, I do not know of any passage descibing lesbians, unless you are prehaps refering to the section in levitiucs where it says not to do that.
prehaps you can enlighten me?
anyways, back on topic. good responces here people, I like the answer of the atlas.
keep them coming people!
I dont remember who it was... And I really dont feel like looking for it in the bible (Do I even have a bible?)... I'll surf and see if I can find it...
Quote from: Evil on Tue 19/08/2003 00:48:38
Otg: Everything is religious is some way... Everything relates to religion :)
Um no...'religion relates itself to everything(pretty much anything and everything it can get away with)' is the right context. ._.
Anyway off topic. :P
I don't know how far the atlas itself influenced history, a lot of history was certainly made preparing the atlas we have today. Although, if we didn't have atlases we wouldn't fight over the borders, so yeah, I think that's a pretty good choice. ._.
Quote from: Evil on Tue 19/08/2003 01:13:22
DG: There are lesbians in the bible. There are references to sex also :)
That doesn't prove that books like the ones I mentioned are religious.
Besides, I can only think of two references in the bible that relate to lesbianism, and as far as I can remember the bible condemned it (One reference was in Leviticus and other referred to Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis, but that one related to homosexuality in general).
Therefore, it doesn't make lesbianism 'religious' per se, rather it makes lesbianism against Christian religion.
Not only that, but they are only references and thus not actual lesbians in the bible, as you say.
Besides, the word 'lesbian' is derived from the Isle of Lesvos, originating from the poetry of Sappho, thus lesbian is actually more so part of Greek culture than biblical religion.
In other words, you're full of shit, Evil. ;D
Well, It might have been what my pastor used to get into my pants :P... Heh, I know there is a reference to lesbians in the bible but it doesnt say that they are lesbians directly... Oh well, it could have been a time I was drunk... :P
Yes.
Very drunk. :o
Hehe offtopic here:
That reminds me of what happened here yesterday.
As the Catholic Church denies Homosexuality, several gay men and lesbians rushed into a Catholic Church during a mass, yelling loudly, for equality, etc.
When I watch the morning news today, the bishop yelled on TV that the Police Force was not doing a good job with the matter, and he's angry, and such and such.
Obviously the cops are gay too. ;D
it's obviously part of the homosexual zionist plot.
HA HA HA
OF COURSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A
"homosexual zionist plot"
HA HA HA
WHAT AN IDEA! FAHSHAR AND SNORT! HO HO, THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY!
(aims at oranges with sniper rifle)
PS:
Sniper rifle reference not meant it an offencive topical way (if it had been, I'd have mentioned that Naranjas was at a gas station at night... But I didn't! And I'm not making light of the killings in Virginia!)
A lot of these responses seem more like "What book I consider the most meaningful" rather than the intended "Most influential book" prompt, but I guess that's as valid a question as any.
I could probably come up with a few titles for the former, but I can't imagine narrowing it down for the later, particularly if we exclude religious texts.
Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card.
No more needs to be said.
Quote from: sum-41 on Tue 19/08/2003 10:39:49
Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow by Orson Scott Card.
No more needs to be said.
Most influential books ever??
I think more needs to be said. As I've never heard of either of these books, and simply because you've told me that nothing more needs to be said, I'm feeling a little dumb, so I'm ascociating these books with feeling bad, which means these books are rubbish. Set me right!
ALSO:
My Mohammad book is DEFINATLY a massivly influential and not TECHNICALLY religious book. I don't know if I made it's not-a-religious-text fature clear enough before, but it isn't, and yet it has a massive effect on a religion (it's not Islamic law to follow the prophet's example, but everyone does anyway, so it's got a huge audience)
I'd like to avoid most religious books in this thread. those are too easy! It doesnt take a whole lot of thought to determine that books in which major, earth chagning reglions follow.
I'd have to disagree with the enders books. Good novels, yes. But I simply cannot think of any change in society that has come from those books, other then prehaps inside jokes amound your friends.
Another influential book would be Darwin's, whose name I cannot seem to think of at the moment.
"Origin of the Species"?
I dunno about influential... Sure, it's caused a lot of controversy, but IMO, other than the controvery, I don't think the study of evolution has been a very big influence on history, compared to other sciences.
I think the best answers so far have been the Communist Manifesto and the Atlas...
GAH! Origin of the Species!!! Why didn't I think of that!
That's GOT to be the most influnential book ever. It's utterly 100% changed the way we think about ourselves as part of the world (although it's hard to really grasp how massive a chance in idiology this was, because we weren't around when there was only creationism)
The communist mannifesto is totally NOT the most important book ever. Not least because the principals put forward in it have totally failed to gain wide spread agreement. Sure, it was used to spark a few revolutions under false pretenses, and sure there are a handful of commie places left in the world (although none of them really conforming to the mannifesto) but it's presumptions and assertions will never achieve the blind faith following, and World View shattering re-think that Darwin's ramblings have managed. (Perhps because they're even more deeply flawed... But that's just me being honest.)
"Origin of the Species" is religious too. People thought it was sacreligiuos (sp?) much like Gailio's books... :)
It's not a "religious text" though. So I think it probably is allowed to count.
The Gutenberg Bible (http://prodigi.bl.uk/gutenbg/default.asp) for obvious reasons.
las said something about turing history into a comic book. so behold!!! the truth about world war 2 is revealed in exicting graphic novel format.
http://www.comics.aha.ru/rus/stalin/1.html (http://www.comics.aha.ru/rus/stalin/1.html)
I've been meaning to read that. Thanks.
Wagner wrote tons books on non-musical subjects that influenced Hitler. He was big into anti-semitism, but I haven't really read any of his political stuff. But his writings were very influential on lots of people, not just Hitler. Plus he was a better writer than Hitler also.
What about Brave New World? That's a pretty good book, and I think it was the first to really describe that kind of a futuristic negative utopia. I guess it's not all that important though.
both Mein Kampf and what Wagnar wrote were products of the jingoistic, anti semitic elements rather than influencing them, though you could make a case that they exacerbated them. However, like many political works, they're symptoms, not causes.
Turning history into a comic book?
The Cartoon History of the Universe is absolutly the BEST example of this. Volume 1 is the greatest, volume 2 is cool and I'm going to buy volume 3 RIGHT NOW.
I've never learned so much about history!!!