DRUGS! Yet another controversial topic...

[c.leksutin]

Farlander, you also have to keep in mind that there is no telling WHAT was actually IN the lsd your friend took.  It is next to impossible that htey hand pure lsd-25,  and thats onle of the problems with making it illegal, it's now made by clandstine chemists under imperfect conditions, with imperfect materials (the ergotaim precurser to lsd is also illegal, so they are forced to sythisize that as well) and more then likely by imperfect procedure.  So yes, I'm sure he had a bad week, who knows what he took?  When LSD was legal (which it was untill the 1960's) there is sicentific documentation of subjects taking 5000 time the normal dose with out problems.  But this was good old lsd-25 manufactured to the strictest of satndards.

I have friends whome I've personally witnessed take twice what your friend took and  have a wondefull time.  Hillucenigenics are all about environment as well, your buddy took a large dose under bad circumstances.. of course it sucked, in his position I'd have simply thrown the stuff away.

C.

[Nacho]

I totally agree...

but, as you said, we can't be sure what are we taking except if we've done it ourselves... So, a point for not using them.

But, hey... I agree with a "sensible" use of some drugs, the problem is that many times the people who use them are not sensible as you and me can be. 

[Evil]

Yeah, LSD is probably the drug that is least likely to harm you. Theres only one drug I strickly stay away from and those who do it. Ecstacy. If it doesnt kill you, you'll kill yourself.

[Rave]

When there is a demand for a product, there will always be a supply.

I demand a bag of fine grade magic pixie dust, 2 dragon horns and two cups of gnome testicles.Ã, 

Pot? I am not really against it, but against the daily usage of it.

Same here. I've never tried dope myself, but I hear that it opens your mind so I'd like to try it once or twice. But as the old Buddist teachings say, "suffering comes from desire" and desire in addiction and excess. I try to follow the middle path. As to cigerretts, I wouldn't touch them if you payed me 10 bucks to smoke one. I'm scared enough by all the commericals and documentaries and studies done to prove all the toxins and carcinigins when are in that stuff. Its like they put it all in there to kill you on purpose. Maybe its a goverment conspiracy or somthing.

But hey, I'm completely fine with rotting my brian.

Ewww.....on second thought, maybe I'm changing my mind....

I only smoke when I'm on fire.

I only smoke after good sex.Ã, 

Remember when you buy drugs you're giving money to some disgusting smuggler which is probably exploiting many people, except of course you're planting it in your backyard, which can also happen.

I agree, buying drugs is probobly worse than the actual use of them because of where the money is going to.Ã,  Thats why people should just get one plant, raise them and multiply them. Then you can have fresh pot whenever you like. :DÃ,  ....just remember not to plant them next to your Oregano bush or you might accidently add some very "special" ingredients to your homemade tomatoe sauce.

well, in the long run, sigarettes are more hassardous to your lungs than pot.

Yeah, thats probobly true because if all the crap (note above) cig companies put in them. But, its quite legal to grow home-made tobacco atÃ,  home without all the additives. I live next to a Native American reservation and I know that they use tobacco for rituals all the time. (Although, maybe not at the Native American Depenency Center near my house. And thats not a joke, although horribly ironic. I seriously live next to one.)

Here's some examples of how some sketching I did under influences turned out (this is about 8 years ago [and art isn't my forte])

Holy crud! I feel trippy from just LOOKING at those. "Duuudee, the colors, dude, the COLORS are awsome..."

I've got so much goddamn consideration for non-smokers you'd think they'd begrudge me a little elbow room. Sorry, I'm not actually referring to non-smokers.Ã,  I'm referring to the anti-smokers (not to be confused with the anti-cigarette crowd).

Wow, I didn't know that smoking had so many diverse political groups about it. And I aprpeciate all your efforts. I am just a first-hand breather, ocassional second-hand smoker. Less than 2 packs a day.

It can be formed in a type of yeast. It was first used when somehow an entire French (I think) villiage ate bread made with the yeast and just went crazy.

*Makes a note to cross out "French Bread" from his shopping list.*

The last time when i was totally drunk was last christmas, i can't really remember something, all i know is that this girl and me did something we didn't yet want to do..Ã, 

Oh, yeah. hX, I almost forgot. Here is your marriage license. Sorry about the delay.

Yeah, LSD is probably the drug that is least likely to harm you. Theres only one drug I strickly stay away from and those who do it. Ecstacy. If it doesnt kill you, you'll kill yourself.

Hmm, that is debatable. But, I remember seeing this one PBS special about this Harverd professor who was at the top of his game was introduced to LSD (when it was still new. Like, in the 60's? 70's maybe?) and it radically transformed his life. He shared it with a few of the other professors he was friends with. Later, they decided to do a scientific study (the first and I think the only) on LSD and its effects of expanding the conciousness. For their subjects they went to the people who wainted spiritual revelations the most. Students studying to become priests and religous leaders. Before the test even got underway, they were stormed by the police and the program was shut down. But afterwards, this guy began a huge spiritual movment and turn his fathers vast property in to a place were hundreds of hippies came for spiritual guidence. The show almost made me want to get out and get some mind expanding drugs of my own. But I didn't. I guess I'm just a chicken or somthing. Maybe after a little peer pressure I'll try it some day when I'm a monk in Tibet. Anyway, this post has gone of for long enough and I apollogize to everyone for making you read it.

[Adamski]

Leks, you're a Zen Buddhist aren't you? I'm assuming that you use or have used LSD seeing as you defend it passionatly whenever the situation allows, but wouldn't that be breaking the basic teachings of the Buddha (the 'purify the mind one' specifically, as I can't imagine that introducing alien chemicals into that squidgy thing we call the brain to royally fuck up it's sensory input would count as purifying it)?

Please set me straight if I'm wrong here.

[c.leksutin]

DS:  My use of LSD came long before I walked the path of Zen,  I'm not so much defending it as I am trying to stop the flow of disinformation.

As for purity, you are somewhat correct, in walking the path I try not to harm my body with unatural things, but I am only human, and I much prefer the mystical fungus, which is 100% created by nature and 200% safe.  It is a physical impossibillity to eat enough "magic" mushrooms to kill you.

They are a gift from Gia and Gia is great.


C.

[edmundito]

I truly believe the reason drugs are illegal is not because they're immoral. I think it all has to do with capitalism, because if they legalized drugs, all of the sudden I think a lot of big drug companies would come out nowhere, specially from the whole Colombia and Mexico cocaine/marijuana thing, and there would be a whole new market the (US) goverment is afraid to deal with; the same reason why they kept communism down, and then they call it evil. Then again, communism was just a big excuse for corrupt officials to shamelessly steal all the money while calling it a revolution,  while in capitalism is about stealing money the business-like way. ANYWAY, These drug companies would become as big as legal drug companies like Merk and so forth. Still, there's a lot of people who have became filthy rich from trafficing drugs illegally, but how much of it is fantasy and how much of it is real?

I don't believe drugs are immoral, yet I don't do drugs. Partially because of the above reasons; I guess I don't support that whole underground illegal operation, specially since I lived next to the drug-stereotype country of Colombia. I also believe that you don't have to try everything that's out there; maybe I'm just too plain and boring, but I just like the way I am. I don't think rebellion comes from dressing up differently or getting tatoos and piercings... that's what MTV made everyone think it is. Some people I know do it, though, and I guess I can say it kind of bothers me because I still don't understand why they have to try them. My friend detests even smelling like regular cigarrette smoke, and he's con-smoking, but he doesn't mind smoking pot, which actually has a worse smell... I just find that totally silly. I do drink alcohol, but not because to get messed up; I just like doing it. I don't like smoking, so how would that justify me smoking pot? That would just be being a hypocrite.

[Toefur]

I just wanted to point out something...

yet I don't do drugs.

I do drink alcohol

Correction: you -do- do drugs.

Alcohol is a drug.
Yes: it is legal.
Yes: it seems to be socially acceptable.
But it is still a drug.

It is addictive.
It is dangerous.
And it does kill more people than all other drugs combined.

Sorry, but that does annoy me when people go on about how they don't do drugs, and then go on about how they drink alcohol.

[DGMacphee]

I must emphasize that there is no danger of death or injury from overdose of LSD

... unless they tried to fly off a building.Ã, 

Actually, C-leks's comments on drugs have a very Bill Hicks-like ring to it -- it's something I like.

[Nine Toes]

...

[edmundito]

Drugs is a pretty general term in english, but in that context I guess I was referring to the non-drinkable, illegal drugs. it's just easier to just type the word drugs. I use it like saying "kicking your ass".. I don't litterally mean that I'm going to actually kick you in the ass And as I said, I don't see drugs, in general, as something inmoral... therefore, alcohol consumption is fine with me.

I think with drugs there comes a big responsibilty, tho, to keep you from destroying yourself, as Mr. Hyde said. Alcohol is definitely a socially-acceptable drug, but you gotta "drink responsibly" as they say in comercials. The thing is that depending on the drug you do, it's usually easier when the people around you accept it, too. I think the social aspect is a big part of it in some cases. I think a big reason why I don't do the illegal stuff is because it's treated like such a taboo, and the people I know act all shady about it.

I wonder what the ratio is between social and other reasons, on any kind of drug. I guess it's also easy to crutch on a drug to "solve" your problems. I know what it's like to have a crutch of some sort... it's hard to let it go. Fortunately, it's not a drug, but sometimes I do feel like I'm addicted to it... hahaha... I was just reading this and it almost sounded like I was talking about masturbation. No, it's not that.

[Andail]

You wanna smoke one, shoot junk, or snort a line, I could really care less.Ã, 

So you actually do care?

And generally, I disagree, since most of the drug addicts end up in rehab and detox or whatever it's called, which is extremely expensive for the society, and the tax-payers.

[Las Naranjas]

Looking in a broader economic context too, if drugs impair your ability to work, you either do a crap job, or lose a job in which case you lose income, which means you don't spend [except on drugs] which means less jobs elsewhere etc.

The normal state of humanity is codependency, so if someone gets fucked, by their own action or by others, it's everyone's problem in the end.

[dasjoe]

I disagree, since most of the drug addicts end up in rehab and detox...

i disagree with that.  i would say that people who smoke weed on a regular basis (everyday, every second day...) are addicted to drugs after a while. and i know many people who've done that, nearly 3/4 of my schoolmates do drugs. and they aren't ending in having a detox.
at least not all of them.

Put that in your bong and puff it.

aha. understood..

[shbaz]

Hey, good luck Mr. Hyde. I hope everything works out for you. The extent of my dealings with A.A. was caring for a friend of a friend's bird while he was in detox.. yeah, he was that addicted. The only thing I don't really like about it is that they force you to admit there's a higher power, which IMO isn't so much a necessary step as it is forced religion. Aside from that, I must commend you for taking the hardest step.. admitting that it's a problem.

[Rave]

On the topic of alcohol... that shit is destroying my life.  I find myself going to the bar at least once a night.  I sit there and drink myself stupid, so that I can forget about all the things that make me depressed......I went to my first Alcoholics Anonymous meeting last night.  It really was an eye-opener.  I learned things about alcoholism that I never knew before.  It really is a disease... an actual physical disease.

You know, depression is an actual pysical disease too..
I think AA meetings are good, I mean. Support group wise, but I don't agree with how the incorperate religion (The first step, mind you) into recoverery. Pressing your faith onto someone who has hit rock bottom  seems just wrong to me. (btw, I'm Agnostic)

Drugs is a pretty general term in english, but in that context I guess I was referring to the non-drinkable, illegal drugs.

*nods in agreement as he stirs in some dope to make "special" leomonade*

[Adamski]

and I much prefer the mystical fungus, which is 100% created by nature and 200% safe

It still counts as intoxication doesn't it? And I would never buy into "it's safe, no side effects whatsoever!" claims on anything, drugs will always knock your chemical equilibrium out of kilter and there will be consiquences that aren't good.

My personal views on drugs is that I exist due to millions of billion-to-one chances, so I'll be damned if I'm going abuse my mind and body with herbs, shrooms, chemicals, excessive consumption of fermented vegetable drinks, poppy flower extracts or whatever the hell else counts as 'recreational substances'. When you dick around with your conciousness you change who you are, and I think that's the worst thing a person can do to themselves.

I also can't see how drugs can aid in spiritual development, because you're doing nothing but altering your concious state as opposed to taking a voyage into your subconsiouness. The most you can achive would be akin to discovering fools gold.

[Nine Toes]

Yeah, I didn't like how much the word "God" came up at the meeting... the meeting was held in a church, to boot.  They open each meeting with a prayer, and I was all like, "...uh... do I hafta pray?..."  It was also kind of difficult for me to actually say, "Hi, I'm Sully, and I'm an alcoholic."

But the people there were cool.  I actually saw someone I knew there.  I can't do the whole 90 meetings in 90 days thing like they had suggested, but I'll definetly be going to the next scheduled meeting in Clintonville.

I know depression is also a disease, I'm not going to argue that... unfortunately it's an uncurable one.  The only treatment for it is for a doctor to give you some pills...  In my case, I'd be fighting alcoholism with prescription drugs.  Sounds a little odd, don't it?

[Nacho]

It's not odd... It's just that depressions go like that, something weird happen inside, with the hormones and such stuff, and you're fucked, no matter how strong or brave you are...

But if sharing/chatting works for something... AGSers will be there, I've added you to my hotmail list...