Roger is ugly. And about the demo game.

[Phemar]

I have decided yo make an announcement. I hate Roger. I can't stand him, I am really sorry Chris, but I just hate the way he walks, talks, eats and sleeps. I will get my revenge one day. ONE DAY! MWU HU HA HA HAHA!!!!!! uhh.


[edit: change subject]

[Pessi]

I was wondering, would it be good to upgrade the default graphics? I mean, the way I see it, the current graphics kind of reflect more DOS Roomedit. Naturally, you can and will replace the default graphics but I personally would find it nicer to work with graphically more advanced sprites. They just don't seem to make the right impression of what AGS is capable of.

Is it just me?

[TheYak]

Strangely, a good point is brought up in a round-about way.  I've been thinking along those lines for awhile now.  A replacement for the default bluecup is also long overdue.  No offense to CJ, but it'd be nice to kick AGS up to some really clean/professional-looking graphics for its demo.

[Pumaman]

I hate Roger. I can't stand him

I've hated him ever since my wife left me to be with him.

I was wondering, would it be good to upgrade the default graphics? I mean, the way I see it, the current graphics kind of reflect more DOS Roomedit.

Yes, I'd agree. This kind of comes back to the whole issue of the demo game again - I think there was a team who were going to take on the demo game, lead by Joseph DiPerla, but I'm not sure what happened to that.

You're right though, the default graphics that come in the Blank Game template should really be a bit more professional. This gets mentioned from time to time, but nobody really seems to have the time to actually do something about it.

A replacement for the default bluecup is also long overdue

NEVER!!111 You can take our Rogers, our Pink Posters and our Yellow Keys, but you can never take our Blue Cups!

[TheYak]

Not replacing it with another color of cup, god forbid!  Just meant giving it a nicer look.  

I'd be willing (and proud) to re-do as much of the graphics as I was allowed to but lack the skill that others could bring the project.  Hence, I become another member of the peanut-gallery.

[Evil]

Yes. I'd have to agree also. That pink poster bothers the hell out of me. I would rather have Roger then that stupid, pink poster. I say revolt. Ban the pink Poster!

[Pessi]

YakSpit, I was thinking about the same thing. What if there's someone else out there who could do a better job? How about a competition or something? I'd be willing to give it a shot!

[shbaz]

I could make a really good blue cup, but probably not a good Roger. Maybe we should make Chris the default character.  

[Evil]

"You rub you hands up and down your clothes."
"Talking to yourself is a sign of madness."

Yep sounds like CJ.

[Matt Brown]

sounds like a spirtejam if I ever heard one...

[Vel]

I also agree that the default graphics should be more professionally looking. I prefer none to those yellow keys and pink posters. And that faint copy of Roger Wilco.

[Raggit]

If you hate roger why don't you draw your own character??

[BOYD1981]

If you hate roger why don't you draw your own character??

i second that

[Nine Toes]

I'm with Pessi, and the rest of you who agree.  I've actually been thinking about that a little bit lately, I just never considered actually mentioning it.

Yeah, this'd be a cool little contest for the competition forums...

[Raggit]

Well does anybody actually use Roger as their games finale character???

I always thought that CJ put him there for immediate use and testing etc...  

[TheYak]

Yeah, he's there for testing but Pessi's original point (correct me if I'm wrong here) was that the demo game was a new AGS user's first impression of the engine.  I don't know about the rest of you but when I fired up a couple different game-making programs, I checked the demo game first thing, messed around with capabilities, checked out graphics and what kind of effects were possible.  

Especially since we've now got some advanced graphics options, there's a lot we could improve upon.  If the graphics are redone, however, they have to be consistent.  So, a competition wouldn't necessarily be a Sprite Jam but more of a conglomeration.  A kind of Sprite Jam/Background Blitz.  If there's going to be a new demo scripted then some coordination would be needed there.    

Or, we could vote/decide upon a style to emulate.  It would be quite cool to show a new user that the engine can be used to make a very DOTT or SQ type game.  

[Nacho]

I shouldn't see logic to put some DoTT character as a default character because the original template is oriented to sierra style... But I think that there must be a good Roger Wilco walcycle somewhere. Anyway, if you want to go on with the idea of the contest, it seems cool...

[MrColossal]

i always thought that if someone wanted to see what AGS could do they'd figure it out from the tons of games out there that all have wildly different styles

i love diminutive polio riddled Roger

[remixor]

For some reason, I agree with Eric, but it wouldn't really bother me either way.

[Phemar]

Roger woudn't be so bad if they fixed up his walkcycle, redid his body, added different color and made his head the face of Robin Williams.

P.S. am I allowed to say 'robin williams' on the internet?

[TerranRich]

To everyone, especially CJ...

I'd be more than willing to make a 3D version of Roger and his walkcycles, even diagonal ones. But maybe there should be more. Maybe there should be three versions available... 3D hi-res Roger, 2D low-res Roger, and the crappy midget Roger we have now. Maybe as different templates? All included already? Hmm?

Ooh! And maybe one or two of the new Rogers could have two more versions additionally: alpha-blended and non-blended.

[Pumaman]

I think we really need to consider what the purpose of the demo game is.

Originally, it was to demonstrate what an AGS-made game was like. However, as MrColossal notes that purpose is no longer necessary, since there are loads of real games that do a much better job.

Therefore, I think the demo needs to be re-focussed to serve as an open-source repository for how to do things - much as the Games Factory part of the current demo does.

However, based on experience I think we can say that people tend to lose interest in these things fairly quickly, so we also need to keep the thing relatively small and managable.

Anyway, I agree that a replacement for the default graphics in the Blank Game template would be welcome. Perhaps a Sprite Jam could cover most of the sprites, with a seperate competition for the character sprite.

[Meowster]

Set it in a one room arcade. Each arcade machine has a different 'remake' of a classic, showing how those particular styles are done. Like Kings Quest, Monkey Island, etc. And get different people to do each 'arcade machine' thingy. Include a few typical puzzles and voila. It'd be like that arcade machine that lives next door to me.

Of course, I'm not going to help at all, but I'm sure you'll find plenty of suckers that are trying to buy their way into heaven like this.

[Gilbert]

Actually I suggest NOT to change the default sprites, because I like them and you-know-what? They're CJ's own masterpieces! SO LEAVE THEM ALONE!

[powerhouse2]

Jodo's work is coming along great on the remake of Laura Bow.  We will release the full source code.

Anybody know why the Anonymous Game Designers are reluctant to release their source code?  It's worrisome that someone like the AGDs will take our free work and try to sell it,...

But Jodo says this is the idea.  He wants more people to make games and he wants to see them sold for retail.  

Graphics are no problem, it's a trick to make them consistent.  It's also beyond me how people can program AGS, but if people shared their work it would be so much easier.

Thank you CJ for providing forums where we can beg/borrow and steal what we need to finish a game.

[MillsJROSS]

I think the default art doesn't have to be updated. It's just a default, how many people really need to be using it? If people want to submit their backrounds, sprites, and music, I'm sure Insta Game would love such contributions. If anything the default art is just there as a place holder for the real art, and so people new to ags can fiddle around a bit, and see how things work.

That said, really I don't care THAT much on the issue...as it has no effect on my gamemaking.

-MillsJROSS

[RickJ]

Just to expand upon a few of CJ's observations.

Yes, I'd agree. This kind of comes back to the whole issue of the demo game again - I think there was a team who were going to take on the demo game, lead by Joseph DiPerla, but I'm not sure what happened to that.

I setup a forum, ftp, and development area to for this project just before mom got sick.     A number of folks contributed to the forum discussions and Peteri (drew a few sketches).  JD never showed up and eventually everyone quit.  Mom got better and I finished the contract I didn't think I could do and recruited a new team who is hard at work as we speak.    

We are hoping to surprise CJ with a private demo, in the near future, for his comment/review/approval before announcing in the forums.

I think we really need to consider what the purpose of the demo game is.
....

Originally, it was to demonstrate what an AGS-made game was like. However, as MrColossal notes that purpose is no longer necessary, since there are loads of real games that do a much better job.  

....

Therefore, I think the demo needs to be re-focussed to serve as an open-source repository for how to do things - much as the Games Factory part of the current demo does.

This is something similar to our current plan as below.  I hope this fits in with what you have in mind.

1.  The current demo has the problem of having too much stuff in it making the gloabl and other scripts look complicated.  Also it is annoying to have to play through the game to find a demo of something you would like to study or replicate.  So our plan is to split the demo up into modular self contained parts and to use RunAGSGame() as a means of stitching them together.   This would result in a main game demo and a number of modular parts that can be run independently or via game play in the main demo.  

2.  With #1 above in mind we have decided to re-make the original demo into a small-medium adventure with humorous plot, story, etc. The game play would be a metaphor for what we do here on theforums and with AGS everyday and would intoduce newcommers to our little community.  

3. The programming will progress from no scirpting to more complicated techinques as the player progress through the game.   Scripts will be well documented and reviewed so as not to pass on any bad practices.  

4.  Things such as Arcades, alternative GUI's, etc are be to be implemented in seperate mini-games.  It will be possible to launch these mini-games independently or from the main demo.  The main purpose of  the mini-games is to  "serve as an open-source repository for how to do things", while the main purpose of the main demo is to show how much fun we game makers have and how cool AGS is.  


============================================================

If anyone else wishes to participate just sign up to the BluSoft forum and PM me that you wish to work on the new Demo Quest.  

Blusoft Forum - http://www.gaia-spa.com/cgi-bin/blusoft/YaBB.cgi

Here are the people who have helped out so far.  I would like to thank everyone who has made a contribution.  If I have left anyone out please forgive me and PM me so I may correct myself.

Developers

• Damien (Damien) - Zagreb, Croatia
  
• Nick Keane  (ZZjZmoz)
  
• Till Winegartner (Totoro)
  
• Petter Bergmar (pttr) - Stockholm, Sweden
  
• Dan Jones (Jimi)
  
• Allan Menefee  (Hollister_Man), Hollister CA - USA
  
• Peter (agsking)
  
• Richard Jafrate (RickJ), Spokane WA - USA
  
  Contributors
  
• Anthony Hahn (Cornjob)
  
• Petteri Aartolahti (Petteri A)
  
  Special Thanks
  
• Joseph Diperla (Joseph Diperla)
  
• Miguel
  
• Mikko Paajanen (Mikko)
  
• Jetxl
  
• David Scott (scotch)
  
• Barry Craig (Quikstrike)
  
  =========================================
  Please bear with me as I will not have internet access until monday when I return to work.  It seems my wife Silvia bought a house while I was away on Christmas vacation;  we're moved in but I am building a huge computer room in the basement so I will be out of business internet wise for a while.
  
  P.S.  The main character is a girl so we could really use a female consultant to keep us out of trouble.

[Blackthorne]

Jodo's work is coming along great on the remake of Laura Bow.  We will release the full source code.

Anybody know why the Anonymous Game Designers are reluctant to release their source code?  It's worrisome that someone like the AGDs will take our free work and try to sell it,...

But Jodo says this is the idea.  He wants more people to make games and he wants to see them sold for retail.  

Graphics are no problem, it's a trick to make them consistent.  It's also beyond me how people can program AGS, but if people shared their work it would be so much easier.

Thank you CJ for providing forums where we can beg/borrow and steal what we need to finish a game.

A bit off topic, don't you think? And refering to yourself in the third person!  

As for the Demo Quest, I love it.  It taught me the basics.  You just have to tear it apart, tweak it, and learn.  That's it.  Trial and Error.  Demo Quest II is also a lot of fun; I hope someday it is finished.  It was a nice idea.

[Pumaman]

A number of folks contributed to the forum discussions and Peteri (drew a few sketches).  JD never showed up and eventually everyone quit.  Mom got better and I finished the contract I didn't think I could do and recruited a new team who is hard at work as we speak.

Thanks for clearing that up, Rick. It's great to see that the demo game is being continued, and that you have such a large team working on it - so keep up the good work, and I apologise for assuming the worst about what had happened to the project

[Kinoko]

I think CJ's default stuff is fine. Not good, but -fine-, because it serves it's purpose. I mean, I wouldn't be upset if the graphics were updated either, I'm not going to get depressed about this.

I just think that they do a good job of showing you a very basic idea of what you can do. Like others have said before me, most people will be looking at other games for ideas, or will muck around with the program and figure out it's capabilities on their own, or will be too crazed with their own already formulated plan for a game that they won't need to see what the software can do - they will MAKE it do what they want regardless (like me!).

My main reason for liking the graphics as they are is they they AREN'T great. Let's face it, when you make your first game, you like to imagine it's a fantastic masterpiece, and the shittier (no offense CJ) the default graphics are, the better you're going to feel about how good your own look in comparison. If the demo was Monkey Island 2 or something (er, like the Mi2 template), I'd get all depressed about how my backgrounds will never ever look anything like that, and some less motivated users might cry and give up.

In a way, that would be good because it would weed out the unpassionate...... but really, I think I like them the way they are.

ESPECIALLY the blue cup. Don't ANYONE go updating the blue cup. I love it.

If you update the demo graphics though, like I said, I won't really care I felt they deserved to be defended some more though.

[Pet Terry]

RickJ, I'm glad you're still working on it. Unfortunately I was (and am) too busy with other projects and I forgot all about it. But if I have some time, I may visit the forum, draw some more sketches etc. if you need

[MillsJROSS]

Just a though, passed by, to those making the demo, and the thought, might have already crossed your minds. But wouldn't it be cool in the demo game if you made it tutorial like. What I mean is the player tells you what to do, and the demo detects if you've done it. For instance, you're in a room with a switch that's labeled "power to kitchen", you walk into the kitchen and it's still dark, and the player character says "Hmmm...must be something wrong with the Global Integers, these lights should be on", and then it explains how to go about editing this. They can then follow the directions and when they come back, the player can say "Good job." Something like that would be awesome.

-MillsJROSS

[Pessi]

I think that's a great idea, MillsJROSS! However, I think it might work better as an actual tutorial, rather than the demo game. Perhaps there could be several tutorials such as this, concentrating on different issues. Tutorial Quest.

As for the original (I think) topic, the default sprites. As many of you have pointed out, it doesn't really make your game any better or worse, no matter how they look cause they'll be replaced anyway. Nonetheless, I think it would give the user a more realistic image of AGS' performance. Despite the fact that if the user is serious about making a game, they'll figure it out eventually.

[Klytos]

>>>Anybody know why the Anonymous Game Designers are reluctant >>>to release their source code? It's worrisome that someone like the >>>AGDs will take our free work and try to sell it,...

Huh, who's trying to sell your work Jodo? You really have a screw loose.

[RickJ]

Kinoko:  I agree with you about the blue cup 100%.

MillsJROSS:  Hehe.. The plot we have so far is intertwined with that kind of concept.  

Pessi:  The script will be well documented (perhaps overly sometimes) to explain what's going on.  The more advance stuff will be peeled off as seperate mini-games that can be run independently or via RunAGSGame() from the main game.

Klitos:  The plot also includes the steaing of source code (by the bad guys of course).

Petteri:  By all means come back and take a look.  I think you will like how eveything has progressed so far.  We'd love to have you do a couple backgrounds for us.  

[edit]
P.S. Although there is a long list of credits in my post above, as CJ says, people loose interest quickly so there is only a few of us doing most of the work.  So if anyone has  a little desire to get involved please don't be intimidated or think that there are already too many.  Jimi and ZZjZmoz     are newbies but have  contibuted quite a lot to the project.  

[Haddas]

The ONLY thing I need right now is the "empty" template to be EMPTY! No ready Roger in characters.

[Scummbuddy]

just import over them. its so easy. then save it as a template for yourself.

[rtf]

I was wondering, would it be good to upgrade the default graphics?

I know I am stretching back a little bit, but I reccomended AGS to one of my friends, and they turned it down saying that "The graphics sucked and the character was ugly"  I tried to explain to him that you can inport your own, but he's one of those people who you just can't reason with.

Chris, you lost a customer to Roger.  How does that make you feel?

[Pumaman]

Quite frankly, if they can't see past the default graphics in the blank game template, then I doubt they'd have the patience to make a game for themselves anyway - so it's probably for the best.

The ONLY thing I need right now is the "empty" template to be EMPTY! No ready Roger in characters.

The Blank Game template is just that - a Blank Game. You can run it straight away. If there was no Roger, you would have to draw your own character straight away, which people don't tend to want to do when they're just starting a game or wanting to experiment with something.

[AGA]

Empty Game Template

[Haddas]

I now have all I need. Thanks AGA

Well almost all... Now I need the skill and the patience to make a game on my own

[Mage]

my humble opinion :
i think the default character should be drawn more clearly (outlines ) and better animated, that would allow a complete newbie who just downloaded it to draw and animate his own character by drawing over the basic char... hmmm anyone gets my point ? well i don't

[Gilbert]

I'll say, why care about the default graphics, they're drawn by teh Almighty Pumaman, leave them alone!

If you just want some graphics for reference or to paint over, just download the RON or teh Instagame resources.

[Domino]

Roger is really cool, Roger and I hang out a couple of times a week at the local bar for a couple of beers.

I'd sure miss him if he left.

Seriously, i think he's fine the way he is for the beginner AGS user like myself.

Shawn

[LordHart]

Yeah, and then I always have to drag you home.

Drunk adventure game characters... :

[BerserkerTails]

But Roger's so... AWESOME. Has anyone else noticed his extremely long arms when he's facing downwards? It's hilarious!

[remixor]

Has anyone else noticed his extremely long arms when he's facing downwards? It's hilarious!

Why do you think I downloaded AGS in the first place?

[Krynge]

Roger is a cheeser.

But he's the AGS icon we're just so used to...

[TheMightyJodo]

Powerhouse is not Jodo.

LOL.  Blackthorne, your comments crack me up.  You pop up everywhere.

This is Jodo and I look down on these forums.  I do however like the software "Adventure Game Studio".  The forums are intolerable, but no one's perfect. 

I'll check back in 3 more years and see if it has improved.

[Darth Mandarb]

Dude ... what the F**K are you doing digging up old threads?

If you have a problem with Blackthorn contact him via PM ... but stop digging up old threads.  Especially if it's just to make pointless jabs at him.

[Nine Toes]

The forums are intolerable, but no one's perfect. 

Obviously, you are under the assumption that you are.

I'll check back in 3 more years and see if it has improved.

Please, don't.

[Radiant]

A replacement for the default bluecup is also long overdue.

There has been one for awhile...

[Huw Dawson]

Threadomancy. Woo.

Everybody let this thread die now. We should start a new topic if anyone's interested in continuing the debate.

- Huw