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Community => General Discussion => Topic started by: RickJ on Wed 02/11/2005 19:28:06

Title: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Wed 02/11/2005 19:28:06
Be careful what music you CD's you play on your computer or this can happen to you!!!

Sony, Rootkits and Digital Rights Management Gone Too Far (http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/10/sony-rootkits-and-digital-rights.html)

Update:
Here is a snippet from a Reuters article that indentifies the CD in question.
Quote
... The matter drew increased attention in technology circles October 31, when software developer/computer security expert Mark Russinovich began blogging the details of problems he experienced after using his computer to play the copy-protected CD of "Get Right With the Man" by Van Zant, a Southern rock act signed to Columbia Records.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: InCreator on Wed 02/11/2005 19:51:11
This is just a piece of global witch hunt that's way beyond any laws.
To reap more buck, companies cross all limits.

And this is just as unstoppable as piracy itself.

War goes on!
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Darth Mandarb on Wed 02/11/2005 19:57:37
I knew it was just a matter of time before this kind of thing started happening ...

They can't stop the piracy, so they'll start pulling shit like this.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Ishmael on Wed 02/11/2005 20:28:19
It won't take long untill (if it's not already possible) that copyprotection is breached as easily as an unguarded fridge.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Afflict on Wed 02/11/2005 20:39:45
Dude not Kewl!

No discaimer or anything, no agree / disagree button.

Btw has anybody purchased a game and not agree'd to terms and conditions and returned it?
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Paper Carnival on Wed 02/11/2005 21:10:43
^ no, but I disagreed with the conditions of different games/programs, then used showin to enable the "next" command button, giving me the ability to use software without following the terms of use. Wheee :P
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Afflict on Wed 02/11/2005 21:34:53
I wonder what would happen if I go back to the store and say "Hey I bought this here and I dont agree with the terms and conditions" most stores have a no refund thingy...
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Kweepa on Thu 03/11/2005 02:43:59
Quote from: Ishmael on Wed 02/11/2005 20:28:19
It won't take long untill (if it's not already possible) that copyprotection is breached as easily as an unguarded fridge.

The point is not that it's copy protected, but what the copy protection does to your computer. Read the article.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: edmundito on Thu 03/11/2005 05:05:12
I think this is related: http://news.com.com/Sony+to+patch+copy-protected+CD/2100-7355_3-5928608.html?tag=nefd.lede
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Janik on Thu 03/11/2005 06:29:12
And if you were to download the album you would not get this trouble. It's not a smart move to actually penalize paying customers. Plus, you can't put it in your MP3 player, etc.

Take for instance DVDs - first you have the unskippable (and pointless) FBI warning, and then often you get some ads in there too. Some even have unskippable ads (none of mine, thankfully)! Isn't paying for the product once enough? Why annoy your customers?
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Traveler on Thu 03/11/2005 06:43:06
For playing DVDs with that unskippable s**t, take a look at DVDIdle Pro. It also helps playing DVDs from other regions, if that's important to you (to me it is) without flashing the DVD drive itself. I've been using it qute some time and it's ok.

On the Sony thing, I just decided that I never ever buy anything from Sony again - this doesn't mean only me, but my company too, and I'll certainly tell this to all my friends.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Thu 03/11/2005 07:18:38
Well to dive the point home what if everyone and their friends dropped into a record store and shopped around for a Sony CD and at the checkout counter ask the clerk if the CD will screw up your computer.  When they say "No!" point out the copy protection logo and the fine print and thell them that you don't want to buy that kind of crap and leave.   Repeat the process as often as you like.  See how many of your friends you can talk into playing this kind of prank.   While you are shopping chat up other shoppers about CD's screwing their computers and asking them if they know which ones.   If nothing else it's good for a laugh.  Who knows if enough people do it they may get the point. 
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Ishmael on Thu 03/11/2005 08:01:05
Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Thu 03/11/2005 02:43:59
Quote from: Ishmael on Wed 02/11/2005 20:28:19
It won't take long untill (if it's not already possible) that copyprotection is breached as easily as an unguarded fridge.

The point is not that it's copy protected, but what the copy protection does to your computer. Read the article.

I read it. And I know that's not the point, but as it stands, you must let this software to be installed onto your computer if you want to listen to the CD. But sooner or later the music can be played without this application and ripped, so this copy protection is rendered useless against the ones who know a bit about stuff, and remains to trouble people who're not that aware of things.

At any rate, what Rick said sounds like a plan...
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Las Naranjas on Thu 03/11/2005 09:28:25
In terms of warnings, I like the fact that on some DVDs, I need not watch only the Australian warning, but British, Norwegian, Swedish, Italian and French warnings, all unskippable, on a single disc.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Barbarian on Thu 03/11/2005 23:48:25
Guess Sony's feeling some of the heat from this malware/spyware garbage they been forcing on users.
Just seen a news article that they are now "Issuing a Fix" for it...Ã,  :PÃ,  Ã, 
Click Here to read the News article. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20051103/tc_nf/39083;_ylt=AqTdTdA7w6EgOTBJA8xveC0jtBAF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--)

Seen another news article related to this now over at BBC's news-site:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4400148.stm

Too little too late I say.Ã,  Though I liked some of Sony's products (PlayStation I & II for example, amoung some other good electronics), I think they stepped way over the line with this whole sneaky forced "rootkit" thingy they were installing unawares to users of their music products... it's very pathetic and low of them to do that, and I'd say they most likely broke at least a couple of laws doing that.

Reading some of the follow-up posts to that article that Rick posted a link to in the first message, some people there are now saying the new Sony rootkit removal tool doesn't actually work:  "...is merely a removal of the cloak. the patch actually reinfects your system."
"  and  "...you don't actually remove the software with this tool, only make it visible, and you are still infected up and down with DRM"..  Bah!  :P
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: SSH on Fri 04/11/2005 09:31:55
On the other hand, if you want to cheat at WoW... http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27444
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: auhsor on Sun 06/11/2005 05:56:56
I think its amusing seeing the situation Sony is in, but I can't help but feeling that they will get away with it all somehow. If you read here (http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/more-on-sony-dangerous-decloaking.html) you can see how Sony blatantly lie about what their 'harmless' copy protection does. Read all the comments too, they get quite interesting and further provide proof of the case against sony.

Oh and something interesting I learned from reading the comments:
"Ohyea, another thing. This DRM system uses a blacklist to filter out what applications can and what can't read the CD. So, this doesn't protect the CD, but rather intends to break the listed software. To verify, use your hexeditor and you can locate the following list yourself:
http://hack.fi/~muzzy/sony-drm-magic-list.txt

If you want a more concrete proof, try to rename your favourite ripping software as $sys$whatever.exe and then run it again. You'll notice that the DRM system can no longer detect it, and thus you'll get good copy of the track you try to rip instead of one filled with noise."
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: shbaz on Sun 06/11/2005 09:21:22
Quote from: auhsor on Sun 06/11/2005 05:56:56
If you want a more concrete proof, try to rename your favourite ripping software as $sys$whatever.exe and then run it again. You'll notice that the DRM system can no longer detect it, and thus you'll get good copy of the track you try to rip instead of one filled with noise."

Interesting how a side-effect of the DRM software is that it allows you to hide other software from itself.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Ishmael on Sun 06/11/2005 10:28:29
What did I say!
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Sun 06/11/2005 19:43:12
In case anyone wants to go prank some music stores the name name of the CD that started this is   "Get Right With the Man" by Van Zant, a Southern rock act signed to Columbia Records.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Nacho on Sun 06/11/2005 20:08:26
Sorry, I've read it but my English is too poor to understand some things. I think I've understood correctly (If I am wrong point it please)

-If you copy a cd more times than the CD allows, some software is installed in your system.
-That program slows 1 or 2 % the performance of the CPU.
-If you try to uninstall it, it screws some ofÃ,  your configuration.
-There is no uninstall function in that program "per se".
-It is cloaked...

What I don't know is:

-What is the program? Some kind of spyware to track the CPU of the person who did the copies? A worm program? Or the only penalty is the slowing of the procedures of the CPU?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Squinky on Sun 06/11/2005 20:22:27
Man, it would suck being the first artist they decided to put this on...Wouldn't sell too many albums I would suspect...
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Ishmael on Sun 06/11/2005 20:32:20
Quote from: Farlander on Sun 06/11/2005 20:08:26
-If you copy a cd more times than the CD allows, some software is installed in your system.

The rootkit business is installed when you put the CD into the drive. The CD refuses to play on any other program than the one that is on the CD, I gathered.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Rui 'Trovatore' Pires on Wed 09/11/2005 08:46:21
Ok, I'm not sure whether this is what one of the earlier links in this thread is about, but still good, I guess. I got this in my daily Al Lowe's Cyberjoke's comments:

"CyberJokester Wallace Krebs has an update on the Sony rootkit story. They received so much heat over it that they now offer a patch to remove the virus and give you back control over your CD drive.  If you've
played a newer Sony/BMG audio CD recently, the patch is here:
http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/updates.html
Thanks, Wallace!"
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: shbaz on Wed 09/11/2005 19:47:28
Quote from: Rui "Brisby" Pires (a Furry) on Wed 09/11/2005 08:46:21
"CyberJokester Wallace Krebs has an update on the Sony rootkit story. They received so much heat over it that they now offer a patch to remove the virus and give you back control over your CD drive.

Oddly enough, according to Slashdot comments the patch phones home to alert Sony that you've patched. The (rootkit) proggy phones home every time you play or attempt to play the CD too.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Traveler on Thu 10/11/2005 05:27:12
Sony has been sued in a class-action lawsuit in California and there is a federal class-action lawsuit in the works - according to news on Mark Russinovich's blog.

In Italy, police is investigating Sony and hopefully Endland's Scotland Yard will move too, against First 4 Internet (the criminals who developed the virus that Sony installed on users' computers.)

I seriously hope that Sony gets badly burnt in this - they deserve everything bad that could possibly happen to them. One thing is for sure: the next time I'm (or my company is) buying a Sony product, year will start with '3'.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Barbarian on Thu 10/11/2005 13:48:50
Another recent news-link regarding some lawsuits Sony is facing regarding the mess:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4424254.stm

I hope they get burned good and learn that they went way over the line with their sneaky malware/spyware crapp.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Squinky on Thu 10/11/2005 16:47:23

http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2005/11/sony_exec_warne.html
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Barbarian on Fri 11/11/2005 14:12:13
It was bound to happen.. new viruses now taking advantage of Sony's rootkit:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4427606.stm
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Helm on Fri 11/11/2005 16:08:01
this thread is wonderful. everything just keeps getting worse!
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Traveler on Fri 11/11/2005 23:15:56
I tend to agree with you. I hope Sony gets it this time - I wouldn't even mind if the class-action lawyers get away with all the money, just make sure they hit Sony where it hurts.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Fri 11/11/2005 23:52:25
Yet another interesting link ...

Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Janik on Sat 12/11/2005 03:30:56
The blowback is unfortunately starting to affect the artists who had this copy protection put on their CDs. Take a look at the latest customer reviews for The Dead 60s record:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0009I7NO4/qid=1131766102/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0433652-8153548?v=glance&s=music&n=507846

It's a really good music, it's just too bad for the band to have to be the victim of this little experiment.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Sun 13/11/2005 03:52:54
Here is the latest I've heard about this.  Take a look at what Sony say you are allowed to do with their lousy CDs.

Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Barbarian on Mon 14/11/2005 17:34:04
Sony must really be feeling the heat now... There are several class-action lawsuits now pending against them over the whole mess. Sony has now "tempoarily" stopped making CD's with that particular rootkit on it. And even Micro$oft now says Sony's rootkit is classified as spyware and will be giving users means to detect and remove it with an upcoming update of it's anti-spyware software:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4434852.stm
Ã,  Ã, Nice to see that it's been exposed as it has been, and not just "swept under the rug" as so many big rich corporations usually mange to do with negative publicity.

On another note, there's aÃ,  program (Exact Audio Copy) I seen recommended from a link from one of the new-articles I've read on this, that will allow you to easily grab music from CD and make them into file on your computer for use, and will also grab music from Sony's XCP protected CDs as well if you've "...turned off autorun and avoided infection by XCP".

http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/Ã,  , it's basically free to get, but sort of considered a shareware program as the guy asks if you like the program to just send him a "postcard and a stamp".Ã,  Ã, Anyways, it might be worth checking out.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: shbaz on Tue 15/11/2005 00:19:02
Quote from: Barbarian on Mon 14/11/2005 17:34:04
And even Micro$oft now says Sony's rootkit is classified as spyware and will be giving users means to detect and remove it with an upcoming update of it's anti-spyware software:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4434852.stm

It doesn't surprise you that Microsoft (http://www.xbox.com) would helpt to publicly make Sony (http://www.playstation.com) look bad, does it?
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Tue 15/11/2005 08:30:25
Quote
On another note, there's a  program (Exact Audio Copy) I seen recommended from a link from one of the new-articles I've read on this, that will allow you to easily grab music from CD and make them into file on your computer for use, and will also grab music from Sony's XCP protected CDs as well if you've "...turned off autorun and avoided infection by XCP".
So the thing to do is go out and buy all the XCP CDs you can find, rip them with this thing and then go back to the record store and demand your money back.  Tell tell them the ELUA terms are not acceptable.  If they don't give the mone back go to small claims court where you are sure to prevail, as the terms of the ageement aren;t divulged until you break the shrink wrap and pop the thing into your computer.  The interesting thing about small claims court is that lawyers aren't allowed in.  So as I understand it, if one were to  sue Sony in small claims court, what one would do in fact is to name one of the corporate officers or board members of the corporation in the suit.  They would have to travel to your city and spend the day in the court room just like the rest of us scumbags.  You could ask for a judgement for the amount you paid for the CD ($18.00) plus the court filling fee ($35.00) and whatever it cost you to have the papers served on the defendant ($50.00 ).   

In all likelyhood you would prevail on the basis that the terms of the ELUA agreement were not revealed until the CD was inserted into a computer and that upon reading those terms you did not agree to them and that you wish to return the merchandise for a full refund.   The really cool thing is that even if you loose, you are out  less than a 100 spot but that important SOB had to spend at least one day with a lawyer and another day traveling, and another day in court to explain himself in front of a judge.   It would only take a few hundred such lawsuits to keep'em busy for a long time.    := 

Update:
It seems Sony has yet another DRM scheme nearly as bad as the last one.  The article is  here:     
Groklaw - More Sony DRM Hijinks - Now It's MediaMax (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20051115001431715)
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: shbaz on Wed 16/11/2005 00:37:07
The store who sold you the CD would most likely be held liable, though I don't doubt that it's possible to get Sony.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Barbarian on Wed 16/11/2005 17:00:58
Wow, Sony must be a bit worried now about the whole XPC mess they caused... that or perhaps feeling the pressure from too many law-suits and/or perhaps loss of sales ofÃ,  customers (and potential customers) who may be angry over Sony's sneaky and damaging methods. Anyways, in the news: "Sony recalls copy-protected CDs":
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4441928.stm

Boy-o-boy, it just gets worse.. Even if you Uninstal Sony's XCP, it leaves a backdoor open for hackers & viruses, and users who have or did have Son'y XCP crap on their computer could have their system infected simply by visiting a malicious website:
"...It warned that anyone who has uninstalled Sony BMG's controversial XCP copy protection system and visits these sites could find their computer is attacked by malicious hackers."
More about it here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4445550.stm
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: Traveler on Tue 22/11/2005 04:59:24
Sony has been sued by the State of Texas and it made the news on Fox 4 (I don't know about other channels; I accidentally watched it when they started talking about it.)

If someone is interested, here are a few links about DRM news when it hits computers/TVs (worth reading to embrace the brave new world of Sony and RIAA):

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122738,00.asp

http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122843,00.asp

http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,115057,00.asp

If you happen to be a movie/computer freak (I am), get a new computer this year - if I'm right, Intel releases the first motherboards with onboard DRM chips next year.
Title: Re: Screwed by Sony Music CDs
Post by: RickJ on Tue 22/11/2005 19:27:29
Yet another class action lawsuit agains Sony.  This time by the Electronic Frontier Foundation.  Here is Groklaw's coverage.