I am following this story with a little interest ... but it does raise an interesting question in my mind.
On July 3rd (3 July for the rest of the world) Kyla Ebbert was asked to get off a Southwest Airlines flight because her outfit was "too skimpy and revealing". Here is an article about it (with video showing the outfit):
>> Dressed down for dressing down (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20747424/)
Here's a pic:
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/graphics/kyleebbert.jpg)
I watched the video. The young woman's apparral isn't horrible, but the skirt is pretty darn short and if she moves her legs at all (while sitting) those walking the isles would get a nice show. She claims they wouldn't, but it's simple geometry, they would. In the pic above she has pulled the skirt down a bit, using the long shirt to cover her mid-section. She played all innocent, but I'd be willing to bet that the skirt was actually much higher than she claims. (just speculation on my part)
I thought nothing much of it, figuring it was just some male, middle aged, love-scorned, and bitter flight attendant coming down on some young hottie.
Then it happened again.
On September 11 (11 September) a young woman named Setara Qassim was asked to "cover up" on a Southwest Airlines flight. Here is a link to the story showing the outfit (again):
>> Some jet-setters wonder if their outfits will fly (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20757173/)
Here's a pic:
(http://www.twin-design.com/ags/graphics/setarreqassim.jpg)
This outfit is still a tad revealing, though not like the other one.
I don't know. A part of me says, "good for Southwest airlines" for finally pointing out how slutty and inappropriate the fashionable "style" has become these last few years. Then another part of me says, "these women should be able to wear whatever they want"
The first story I really do think the skirt was inappropriate. It's essentially just underwear and if I were on that flight with my kids (if I had any) I wouldn't want them seeing this young woman's crotch (I would gladly look of course). The second outfit wasn't so bad I guess. It is a tad revealing I suppose. I think it's just made more obvious because she has large breasts?
I don't know ... I was just wondering what others think about this type of issue?
Are women/men these days dressing inappropriately?
Does Southwest have the right to enforce a "dress code" on their flights?
Should we, as a global society, "reel" this in?
Am I the only one who cares enough to post about it ;)
I can certainly understand how a short skirt may prevent the pilots from safely reaching their destination.
Throwing the lady off the flight was probably a bit much, I wonder if she was refunded, my money is on no.
Maybe some Hookers don't like taking the train. ;)
Quote from: earlwood on Thu 13/09/2007 23:05:13Throwing the lady off the flight was probably a bit much, I wonder if she was refunded, my money is on no.
Both were allowed on their respective flights.
None of the networks seem to care that this isn't really news. Just my two cents, anyway. As long as they keep showing girls like that people don't care what they're watching. It's a pretty transparent attempt to get more people to watch their programs. :-\
I can understand why they made a big deal about the first woman. She was ugg-lee.
I'm absolutely appalled when an attracitve female is on the same flight as me. I much prefer geriatrics and toddlers and overweight loud people.
I have no problem if an airline would like to enforce a dress code. However, it would probably be more appropriate to tell people before they get on the plane, rather than after. It would also be prudent to explicitly tell people a dress code when purchasing their ticket, so they know in advance. If people don't like it, they can fly another airline.
While I don't really have a problem with what those women were wearing, I'm sure someone does, and I respect that it makes them uncomfortable. The only problem I have with the dress code, is it's up to employee discretion, and it doesn't sound like there is a firm set of rules.
-MillsJROSS
Yeah, I think the dress code concept is fine but it should be made public what is and is not acceptable since people more and more are defining what is and is not acceptable on an individual basis. The first girl doesn't dress in a way I would consider appropriate for being around a bunch of relative strangers on a plane; she seems dressed to go to bar or a nightclub. Maybe she thought her outfit would draw attention and maybe she didn't even think about it, but the end result is that Southwest did and it's their show. Defining some kind of casual-but-not-slutty dress code publicly would certainly help them, though there are so many ignorant people in this world (mostly by choice) that they would still have people show up wearing almost nothing and then get indignant when they're told a dress code is public.
Hell, they'd probably get indignant anyway because it's some breach on their overblown concept of rights...
If the people who wear unnapropiate clothes are so pretty as those two, no problem.
I think America should start by banning fat people from flights. [/sarcasm]
Seriously though, this from the country that thought flight attendants in bikinis (aka Hooters Airlines) was the way to get people to fly again after certain airline incidents? Hipocrisy shows its ugly head. If skimpy clothing would be disallowed from airlines, what about buses, and libraries, and restaurants? Next thing you know there's an ethics police telling people how to behave, and arresting the wrongdoers. Because that's working oooh so well in the Middle East.
QuoteIf skimpy clothing would be disallowed from airlines, what about buses, and libraries, and restaurants?
Personnaly, I'm not worrying in any ways about librairies.
Don't ask.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w128/danthedanuniquely/miloandkida.jpg)
-Princess Kida : :
"You are a scholar are you not? Judging by your diminished physique and large forehead you are [...]."
Librarians are hiding something.
If I ran an airline I would demand at least 10% of every flight to be skimpily dressed women.
And if my stewardesses were banning them from the flight they'd be forced to wear skimpy uniforms until they value skimpiness like I do.
I'd call it LushAir. And it would be magic.
Quote from: voh on Fri 14/09/2007 10:35:08
If I ran an airline I would demand at least 10% of every flight to be skimpily dressed women.
Heh. You could have an employee at the airport with a pair of scissors, to correct people's costumes... :)
I'm sorry but what those women are wearing isn't THAT revealing. Fair enough, the second girl's top has a low cut in it, but it's also a slim cut so you don't get to see much of her breasts. And the first girl... Ok she's wearing a short skirt... big whoop. I've seen stewardesses with basically the same length skirt. If the attendants were really that stuck up about it then they could have at least asked her to move to a window seat where people walking up the aisle cant see.
Poor girls... victims of political correctness gone absolutely bonkers.
If I was on either of their flights Id've taken them to the toilet and signed us up to the mile-high club
Tag this as politically incorrect but there's a very high probability the male flight attendant is homosexual. Would the same incident occur if a guy had been wearing tight, revealing pants?
Some interesting points/opinions all around.
Several (dudes) have commented on not minding at all 'cause they like looking at the women dressed like that.
Now don't get me wrong ... I like the female body as much as the next male heterosexual. But for my money the old saying "less is more" holds true here. I like wondering what she's hiding under there! If it's flaunted (as both these woman were doing) it leaves little to wonder about...
If we continue on the trend we're on, with the clothes becoming less and less, eventually there'll be no need for imagination. And with Hollywood going the way it is, and music ... I don't know. It seems like imagination is in danger of going extinct!
Two seperate thoughts I suppose.
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 14/09/2007 08:30:15
Hypocrisy shows its ugly head.
It's not hypocrisy. You say one company wanted to do Hooter's girls as stewardesses and another company years later has 2 people removed from a plane for arbitrary dress code violations.
If it was the SAME company than sure, hypocrisy, but it isn't so it isn't.
Huh, I wouldn't mind if people wear revealing outfit in the same room as me. I also think that people should go out naked more. Whats with these barriers? Sexual tension in the air? Thats because we are not used with nakedness, which we should. There is nothing wrong with being naked, and if you can't stand it, you are just a pervert who can't get past his/hers sexual thoughts.
My testicles want to breathe goddamnit!
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 14/09/2007 15:38:48
If it was the SAME company than sure, hypocrisy, but it isn't so it isn't.
It's the same country. America is both the country with the highest amount of moral panic among its populace, and the biggest porn industry worldwide. Same thing.
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Fri 14/09/2007 14:42:19Several (dudes) have commented on not minding at all 'cause they like looking at the women dressed like that.
That may have been a weird remark, but it seems obvious that if the women didn't want to dress like that, they wouldn't. (unless they're really really blonde-minded... there was this shy-ish girl who used to come to the local disco and was amazed that she got way too much male attention, even though she was the most skankily dressed in the whole disco by a long shot...)
QuoteIt seems like imagination is in danger of going extinct!
Oh, we'll probably get a backlash like we did in the eighties.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 14/09/2007 15:38:48
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 14/09/2007 08:30:15
Hypocrisy shows its ugly head.
It's not hypocrisy.
Yeah but I didn't have to dig very deep to find the hypocrisy you wanted.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TR7JApjgIGw
Darth is right. Humans are born naked & we are regressing. Ideally, we should add a layer of clothes every year.
Radiant, hypocrisy amongst unrelated people sure. The porn industry also has nothing to do with the opinion of an airline or how an airline decides to react to customer complaints, I don't follow you.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 14/09/2007 15:38:48
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 14/09/2007 08:30:15
Hypocrisy shows its ugly head.
It's not hypocrisy. You say one company wanted to do Hooter's girls as stewardesses and another company years later has 2 people removed from a plane for arbitrary dress code violations.
If it was the SAME company than sure, hypocrisy, but it isn't so it isn't.
Eric, notice what Radiant says:
QuoteSeriously though, this from the country that thought flight attendants in bikinis
He' s not aiming to a company... he is blaming a country.
Note that I am not going to pronounce if I agree of not with Radiant, but I think I should point that before two guys I' d like to see having a good debate start to mix pears with apples... :)
And I'm trying to point out that an entire country of people don't all vote on what a private business does with it's money.
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 14/09/2007 16:30:14
And I'm trying to point out that an entire country of people don't all vote on what a private business does with it's money.
But it's not just the company, there's quite the audience on the internet cheering them on, most of whom, incidentally, are from the country that invented (and makes good use of) Hooters Airlines.
I depart here. There are audiences on the internet for tons of things and if you want to track the lines of all internet activity from every country, then bringing up the fact that hypocrisy is rearing it's head becomes redundant because it's always there. Also, Hooters Airlines has suspended all service. Lunch Time!
I think a private business has the right to enforce a dress code, much like a nice restaurant would be able to do so, without having news coverage.
I'm still not understanding how hypocrisy is being used here. As far as their being a Hooters plane and a Southwest plane, their two different entities. They can do different opposing actions without being hypocritical.
QuoteIt's the same country. America is both the country with the highest amount of moral panic among its populace, and the biggest porn industry worldwide.
Perhaps the moral panic is caused by America having the biggest porn industry. Not really hypocritical to me, just cause and effect.
And just because people do one thing in the privacy of their own home, but do something entirely different out in public, doesn't make it hypocritical either. It's a time and place thing. Southwest isn't saying anything about people not being able to dress how they want outside of their planes.
Evenwolf's youTube post does allow some hypocrisy to be thrown to Southwest Airlines. But as it's 30 years ago, it really isn't a strong case. Different times, different people running SW, different morals. The only thing I think SW needs to do, is make it explicitly clear that there is a dress code And be firm with that dress code.
-MillsJROSS
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 14/09/2007 15:45:27
Quote from: MrColossal on Fri 14/09/2007 15:38:48
If it was the SAME company than sure, hypocrisy, but it isn't so it isn't.
It's the same country. America is both the country with the highest amount of moral panic among its populace, and the biggest porn industry worldwide. Same thing.
America lack moustache. That's the problem. They need more moustache
Also, I was googling the dark haired girl to get some views from under the skirt. Didn't find any, but I found the pictures of the airline company in the 70's. I guess the whole point is to keep people tipping them hooter stweardesses and not watching some sluts for free.
Wow, this is insane. Show of ingenious human stupidity. Aren't there other things to worry about when you own an air transportation company?
I think that everyone should wear what they want. If it's not VERY VERY abusive, like walking nude or so. I don't find that two women too revealed. The skirt is short, but who cares? If she wants to be seen like that, than she will be. The second one is OK I think. I saw more abusive ones in our school....
Quote from: Oliwerko on Sat 15/09/2007 20:24:08
I think that everyone should wear what they want. If it's not VERY VERY abusive, like walking nude or so.
What is considered offensive varies from culture to culture. In some parts of the world it's absolutely ok to walk around naked while in others you get beat up for showing a square inch of your naked skin. There's no objective rule, it's all a matter of how you have been brought up.
Yes, you're right, but in this case I am talking about regular American/European culture people travelling by plane. Of course that it is ok to be naked in some parts of the world and also it is abusive to show your face in public somewhere, but I meant this in relation to this case.
How do you put the line? For you is being nude? What about if for some others that line is going with micro-bikinis? What happens if someone is annoyed for seeing people with bermudas in the plane? Would you allow fat hairy men without t-shirts to sweat in the seat you are going to use?
As you see, this is not a case of "ingenious human stupidity". It' s more complicate... It' s about a company choosing a dress code, but, as some other mentioned (ProgZmax), it should be a well published dress code, so, people who like to wear short pieces of clothes could choose another company with a more flexible code, without having to suffer the inconvenience of being rejected in a flight for not knowing the rules.
Common sense?
YAY, someone had to introduce pluralism to the thread.
Quote from: MillsJROSS on Fri 14/09/2007 22:01:38
I think a private business has the right to enforce a dress code, much like a nice restaurant would be able to do so, without having news coverage.
I think the main problem with Southwest Airlines, or at least in the case regarding the blond girl, is that there is no
set dress code, instead they leave it to the discretion of their employees.
Well, at least she obviously wasn't hiding any bombs or antrhax underneath there. Weren't people primarily worried about terrorists, and actually asking people to take off stuff at the airport for security purposes?
Quote from: Tuomas on Sat 15/09/2007 10:45:53
America lack moustache. That's the problem. They need more moustache
(http://www.froghaslipstick.com/omg_secret/america_improved.png)
Yeah, I give up, you're all right. But the stupidity is that the airline has no dress code and they are forcing the customers to do things like getting of or having a blanket. If there was a dress code, It is ok. But to force a customer to get off without one ? I dont know.
Nacho - you are right about the line, but still, isnt there a freedom of what you wear? If I dont like what people wear what am I going to do about it? Force all the people to get out of my sight?
If another passenger(s) on the airline complained about the outfits these young ladies were wearing, is it not the airline's responsibility to do something about it? Should the passenger(s) who complained be made uncomfortable just so the one making them so isn't? Is that really fair? And you can't really say, "they need to lighten up ... it's just clothing!" because it's nobody's business to say what should/shouldn't offend somebody else.
I'm not saying this is or isn't what happened ... just throwing another idea into the mix.
It's a tricky situation as I see it. If you put a dress code in place, you must then devote time and energy for enforcing that dress code. And how do you define what is and isn't appropriate:
Addendum B-2 Section 1C: If woman's breasts are (appear) to be a Large C or D cup size, and 2/3 of her breasts (or more) are exposed (but only if they are being pushed out - some kind of wonder bra) this is unacceptable (though only if her height to weight ratio matches the guide-lines put in place by section D4, paragraph 3, subsection 12, flow-chart 6) and if she's hot.
I don't know.
Part of me thinks more companies should take a stand against the "slutting" up that our society seems to be de-evolving to. Then I feel like I'm being influenced by the bullshit puritanical dogma that my country grew up under. I don't know ... I'm really quite torn on this issue.
Darth, I'd reflect on that same suspicion because that's what more americans need to do.
It''s typically not people who are offended that make these kinds of complaints. Instead its "watchdog" citizens who suspect that such things will offend somebody else. Or they think seeing too much skin will corrupt children or something. But I can remember being like 6, 7, 8 years old and being attracted to the female body. I'm not really sure where most people get off thinking its healthy to shield children's eyes from their curiosity of the opposite sex.
I swear more and more guys my age are nonsexual, and it has nothing to do with religious beliefs. I think a lot has to do with these watchdogs causing all sorts of stress and creating guilt, shame, and fear regarding behavior toward the opposite sex.
More people should say, "It really wasn't an issue until you drew attention to it, ma'am."
I think this cant be exactly defined. From one side, I think that they should wear what they want. But on the other, it abuses the other passangers. Its unconclusive situation. On one side, Im forced to wear something, but on the other, I cant force someone other to wear something. I mean, I dont like like my neighbor clothing and he doesnt like mine. So what to do?
I think this is absolutely pointless and we can go nowhere because its just a matter of subjective thinking...
Quote from: evenwolf on Sun 16/09/2007 16:00:44
I swear more and more guys my age are nonsexual, and it has nothing to do with religious beliefs. I think a lot has to do with these watchdogs causing all sorts of stress and creating guilt, shame, and fear regarding behavior toward the opposite sex.
Woah. Maybe that's what happened :o I wonder if I could extract a public apology from these groups :P
Don't get me started on the effects of feminism on the male youth.
A good analogy for what's going on this: Angry feminists stand around a hospital ward. They suddenly dash to the crib of a newborn baby. "You male pig dog! You should feel ashamed of yourself!"