The Matrix - POST ALL MATRIX-RELATED DISCUSSION HERE

[Evil]

I saw it two/three months ago. My friend got it off the net. The visiual was so bad I just might have to see it again. It was kind of like making another "Scary Movie" film. It was good but they should have stopped at the first one.

[Las Naranjas]

Exploding Vagina? Does that mean they've gone from shoddy knock offs of cyberpunk and manga coupled with mutilations of HK Kung Fu films to knocking of Troma?

That's going too far man.

[Snake]

Maybe it would be better liked if it wasn't made fun of so much?

(Keano's bullet-time dodging stunt and more of the like...)

Who cares really, I liked the first, and I'm sure I'll like the second. But Even's got a point about the rubbery CG people fighting. Only the ignorant don't notice...but if you ask me, CG graphics for people/monsters stick out like a sore thumb and just plain suck ass.

Anyone see the new Matrix video game for PS2? I think it looks stupid... there wasn't much effort put into the detail in BG's if you ask me... their way too plain and empty...

(Snake remembers the good old simple days of NES)


--Snake

[MrColossal]

i saw it tonite, i didn't see the trailer for the 3rd, damn

don't read if you don't want to know what happens in a vague way this is your warning...








but anyway, Neo goes bendy during 90% of the fight scenes, a few fight scenes were very forced [before he meets the oracle... whathahell?]

and what was with the rave scene?

Agent Smith has a problem that he explains awkwardly, the oracle has help that she explains awkwardly, the architect explains his deal awkwardly, the french guy just talks and talks and talks about something or other that involves vaginas, I feel no anxiety throughout the movie because i know there is a third one coming, i know Naomi and Ghost won't die because they are the main characters of the damned Matrix game, the "bullet time" or whatever was a hinderance i feel, they slowed down awkward parts like when she drives her motorcycle kinda fast, or someone punches neo, or Morpheous sneezes [you know you woulda loved that] and why can agent smith duplicate himself? and why is the duplicated but real life agent smith [??] helping the machines by setting off the emp?

ah well, at least i didn't pay to go see it and there wasn't an annoying guy who said "Neo" everytime neo did something cool and cheered along with the people at zion...


oh wait


edit: oh yea and for a comment from jess "I liked Neo's dress."

[Dmitri]

my opinion? It was so-so

I actually came out of the cinema shaking my head and saying to myself "special effects is a poor excuse for a bad plot"

I honestly wasn't interested in the story, it was like watching a computer game, neo battled his way through the levels, battled the mini-bosses, and then came to the big boss...

and then there was the 'cliffhanger' everyone saw from a million kagillion miles away, Morpheus seemed too "academic" about having his beliefs questioned at the end... there's just so many bad things to say about it.

But the special effects were good, so that makes up for everything

[Dorcan]

I think this movie was great, both graphics and plot. As I went to a special Matrix evening (Matrix 1 + Matrix 2), it was easier to understand the story in Matrix 2 (the Architect's speech for exemple).
Well, I prefered the first one, but Matrix 2 is also a good movie.

Spoiler

why can agent smith duplicate himself? and why is the duplicated but real life agent smith

Don't forget that agents aren't human. They are programs made by machines.
As the Matrix's an operating system, we can see the agent smith as a bugged program (because of Neo) which turned into an informatic virus.
Well, that's what I think.

[close]

[juncmodule]

Hmmm...I thought it was cool to like the Matrix...guess not .

Regardless I enjoyed both the first and second(saw it last night) as films.

I also enjoy the fact that it brings Baudrillard to the masses without them even knowing it (no the Matrix was not stolen from Dark City, they were both stolen from Philosophy/Critical Theory/Old-school SciFi, as well as every other "World-as-a-simulation coupled with robots-have-taken-over-the-world dystopian future." )

Yes, rubbery CGI, a bit overdone and not needed, that's what was so cool about FX in the first movie, that "effect" was done with REAL cameras, which is why it was fresh, CGI is anything but fresh now-a-days.

Perhaps people are expecting too much and trying to get too much out of the Matrix. It's just a movie, not an academic presentation. Who cares if it is original, unique, or whatever. It's just a hollywood movie. Does hollywood REALLY produce that much "good" entertainment? Perhaps I'm missing something?

Anyway, I liked Reloaded, it was an entertaining few hours and I'm really looking forward to Revolutions. It didn't educate or massively inspire me.

Then again the last movie that inspired me was "The Hours"

later,
-junc

[LGM]

I'm not gonna listen to any of this bull about plot and development.. To me, the last 2 movies are really just one long-ass movie..

So, the first one may seem awkward at parts.. But maybe all the weird explanations and quick dismissals that are strewn throughout will be sorted out in the third..

So, I say.. Just wait until the third before you start attacking plot, dialogue and such..

As for the graphics.. Yeah, there were parts were it looked fake (Mostly in the alley scene) But they did a great job of seamlessly streaming Neo from 3D-Neo to real neo. SO stop bitching, do you honestly think they could've done it any other way?

[MrColossal]

yes lgm, they could have done it a different way, when i saw the first movie i didn't see neo go all bendy and look like a rubber doll with wire bones

you feel they did it seamlessly i don't, why don't you stop bitching about everyone's bitching...

do what you want but why yell at us when you're doing the exact same thing?

anyway, it was a fine movie, it was fun and that's it i guess. xmen 2 was fun, spiderman was fun [though i just saw it again and hated the dialog] these are all fun movies and if i want to be challenged mentally i'll go watch "9 to 5"

[wOoDz]

jeez its amazing how ppl get worked up over a movie!
i've only seen the first one, on TV, maybe if i'd seen it on the big sceen i may of liked it more, the special effects where fantastic, and people point out some had floors but you can watch any movie and something is never 100% right, problem is we expect so much now, and we look much harder, 10 years ago we wouldn't of cared, 10 years on and who knows they might be 100% but we will still look harder to find the faults' i personally don't like it when the characters hang around in mid air for ages, but  the 360 camera shit is really cool.
its a great special effects movie,  but i thought it was over hyped

BTW its on channel5 in the uk on wednesday 9pm

woodz

[LGM]

I wasn't yelling, or bitching.. If I seemed like it that's not what I meant..

Yes, it's a fun movie.. And everyone runs it when the nitpick at every little detail..

I was just trying to say not to over-analyze everything in Reloaded, everything might just change w/ Revolutions.. There..

Now was I yelling?

[wOoDz]

i think everyone expects to much, FFS it wasn't long ago everything was animated frame by frame, people where bashing away on 486's  and £300+ a month phone bills (bin there done that!).
T2 and lawnmower man where state of the art, and everyone went WOW! watch T2 now and you can tear every inch of that film apart, i can think of a dozen things without watching it (4 stroke bike with a 2 stroke sound track....big lump of plastic on arnie's face, 1/4 of a  ton harley that DIDN'T make a big hole in the floor when it landed.....on 'n' on)
we should watch to enjoy not to analyse

[remixor]

SPOILER WARNING.  No need to hide text; if you don't read the post, there's no way you'll accidently catch spoilers.


I can't speak for anyone else, but the reasons I find The Matrix (and Reloaded much more so) dumb are in general not because of technical flaws.  To me, The Matrix had fairly impressive visual effects, but the story was so cliche and in my opinion fundamentally weak that I simply couldn't just enjoy the film as a "kickass action movie."  The dialogue was unbearable, the acting varied between satisfactory and god-awful, and I don't care to watch the film enough times to even be able to identify errors such as the ones you mention in Terminator 2.
That's the first Matrix film.  As far as Reloaded goes, I can't criticise it much on the basic pillars of the world--those were set up in the first film.  However, I thought that The Matrix Reloaded had almost no direct continuity following The Matrix.  It is not necessary that sequels have this, but if they don't, it IS necessary that they somehow explain what happened in the chronological interim between the movies.  I don't mind inferring a few things, but it seemed like, for one thing among many, Neo's entire mission and personality changed.  I don't know if things like that were explained in the animated episodes (which I have not seen and should not be expected to), but if they were that was a bad idea--an audience should be presented with everything they are required to know without having to refer to secondary sources.
Beyond this, I found the movie boring.  At least it was possible to experience just the excitement of the first film, even if other areas were lacking.  In Reloaded, every single action sequence seemed completely bland and scripted.  The scene involving the many Smiths was without a doubt one of the absolute dumbest scenes in any movie I've ever seen, in large part due to the fact that it tried to be so impressive and in my opinion utterly failed.  I also found the car chase scene stupid--that was not a good car chase.  It was merely a lot of explosions and a bit of still-cheesy fighting.  I guess some people are happy with just a bunch of explosions.  I don't know.  Speaking of explosions, they looked utterly fake.  This type of thing isn't particularly crucial, but maybe if they didn't attempt to make every exploding Civic look like a nuclear holocaust they could have managed to keep them a little less corny-looking.  I thought the whole scene was incredibly uninspired.  For great car chases, see Ronin or Bullitt--those films have much more dynamic chases; they're not just races down a straight freeway with cars blowing up left and right.
Furthermore (and I know there probably aren't many people left reading this by now), what the hell was going on when they were editing that three-scenes-at-once deal?  That was the most pointlessly convoluted bit of film I've ever seen, because it was totally unnecessary.  From what I can tell, they were actually jumping around in time, because Neo was shown in different places doing different things at the same time.
There are a million more things I could mention but won't bother to at this time.  Feel free to have your own opinions about the films, obviously, but please don't criticise me for thinking the series is stupid.  I take enough shit in real life from hardcore Matrix fans that I'm fairly immune to it.  Anyway, I'm just one guy, and everyone else in the world is going to see that film multiple times probably, so I'm sure Warner Brothers will have the last laugh.

[Punch]

The reason it doesn't all make sense is that it's not finished with yet. The movies don't seem continuous because in order to get all the information you need to experience every bit of Matrix story created. The prequel shown before 'Dreamcatcher' helps. The Matrix game fills in a lot of the plot holes in Reloaded (I think that's excessively cheap, making people buy the game to make sense of the movie... bastards...). The Animatrix fills in background details, like how the Matrix started and how it works etc.

So if you want continuity send all your money to the Wachowski bros. by buying Animatrix, Enter the Matrix, seeing Dreamcatcher, all three Matrix movies, reading the comics, reading the web comics and stories and then it will all fit together.

A good idea, but I don't have that much money to waste. I want to understand from the movies.

- Punch

[remixor]

Yeah, I agree with Punch.  I think it's ludicrous that they would expect people to watch extra episodes or buy a game or go to a different movie to see some sort of prequel just to understand what the hell happened before Reloaded.  I hadn't even HEARD of the "animatrix" until a few days ago, and I know nothing about the game.

As far as the promise of the third film tying up loose ends--I think it should be pretty possible to make a sequel (even one with another sequel in mind) that stands alone.  It's been done many times.  And I know the ending of Reloaded was supposed to be a "cliffhanger" but I thought it was really cheesy, especially with that the soundtrack did right there.

[Evil_away]

Quote me if I am wrong but isn't Animatrix the original that started the Matix?

[Dorcan]

Quote me if I am wrong but isn't Animatrix the original that started the Matix?

[evenwolf]

I think all you Matrix defenderers are forgetting that Andy and whathisface did not write all three movies before shooting the first.  They are essentially writing as they go along, give or take a few reserved "revelations".  The first movie was a masterpiece, I myself was moved and whether or not the concepts were original- the movie introduced me to them.  The second movie was a horrible attempt at franchising- just giving kids what they want to see. There's no problem with that, but there should be a point made that the movies are evolving into flashier hollywood nonsense.  Don't give me the excuse to just wait for the third movie before criticising- say one day a fourth is written- what then?  Does the credibility of this series keep getting pushed back further?  I think it would be hilarious if at the very end of the third movie- Neo is simply a kid daydreaming in an amusement park.

But LGM, please quit bunching "The Matrix" and "Reloaded" as if they are the same entity.  Franchising a movie creates two separate entities.  The movie the "Matrix" stood alone on its own. But now, part of it has rubbed off IMO.   I'm sure there are other Matrix fans who were not impressed as well.

[Las Naranjas]

Remixor-Can you give an example of bad acting in the film?

No wait, scratch that, can you give an example of acting in the film?

[DragonRose]

I saw it last night, and I have to admit that I thought it was quite good. Yeah, the sex/rave scene and the exploding vagina were unneccessary, but the rest of the movie I thought was pretty good.  I thought the CG was well done (don't hurt me!), I thought the lots of Smiths fight scene was cool, and I had a good time.

I ESPECIALLY had a good time coming out of the theatre where there was a line of people waiting to get in.  My sister and I were yelling 'spoilers' at eachother.

"What? Agent Smith is Neo's father? What?"

"Wait... I'm confused.  So Neo and Trinity are really brother and sister?"

"I loved that bit where Morpheus died and became more powerful than we could ever imagine."

Messing with people's minds is fun!