The idea for this thread came from some of the veteran AGSers being nostalgic and browsing the old Ezboard forums. There was a rather interesting thread on the topic of sex.
For those who are interested, here it is: 'When was the last time you had sex?' (http://pub6.ezboard.com/fdosuserforumsgeneraldiscussion.showMessageRange?topicID=1300.topic&start=1&stop=20)
It would be interesting to see how much has changed in people's opinions on the topic. People change their outlook on many topics as they grow older, for better or worse. And for the newer members, it would be interesting to hear your opinions as well.
In the last few years, many people are using alternatives to the traditional way of meeting the opposite sex by use of Internet dating sites, as opposed to going to bars/clubs or 'hooking up' with a friend of a friend. Opinions on the changing face of dating would be great as well. Experience with dating sites, if you have any, would be awesome.
So there, you have the subject, now discuss.
I will add my input on the topic, but I am tired right now.
*Disclaimer* Try to keep it mature, no boasting, and if you are under 16, be sensible. No whinging about being a virgin please, it gets old quick.
I have yet to find the woman of my dreams.(,A woman that does not laugh at my figure).
Do you know the feeling you get when a girl (who you've last time seen like one and a half year ago) pulls your sleeve saying "Yes you come to drink coffee" with that certain tone?
Well I'm married, but I have strange views on sex and dating because I'm a christian. I don't believe in sex before marriage. I met my wife on the internet though, I think the internet can be a good thing if you use it wisely. My friend dates constantly on sites like www.match.com. He's had quite a bit of success, if you're viewing success in the fact that he's getting sex....but he just goes from girl to girl so what's the point(right I mean aside from sex)? He told me though, that it was the best 25 bucks(I forget the cost but around 25, maybe it's less, maybe it's more) that he ever spent. ^^
Speed dating sounds bizarre. Somebody mentioned Oxygen Dating to me once, no clue what that's supposed to be. I don't have any experiences or know of any, maybe somebody else does...
i met my wife in the good old fashioned way......going to a smoky pub and getting drunk.....then i saw her thru the clouds of smoke........waited til end of nite so i did`nt have to buy her a drink.....approach and ask her out........
Getting drunk helps when they say no.......cause you don`t care...
As for not having sex before marriage........get serious.....try before you buy.........you don`t buy a car till you give it a test drive...
Quote from: foz on Thu 15/04/2004 20:36:26try before you buy.........you don`t buy a car till you give it a test drive...
I don't know why people say that so much, a woman isn't like a car. If you're marrying for good sex then you're marrying for the wrong reason and it isn't going to last, or if it does, it will be miserable. The people with the best sexual relationships are the ones who believe it to be the least important aspect of the relationship.
I suppose I don't have the experience to say, but I arrived at this conclusion by watching marriages crumble because of poor friendships. The ones that didn't crumble were actually interestingly enough mostly ugly people.. When you disregard looks then only the personality shows through and they married for the right reasons.
... I guess continuing the car symbolism, how often do people keep their (new) cars for more than 8 years.. and used cars?
shbazjinkens :
The point is sex is quite a big part of any relationship....and marrying someone you don`t know in a intimate way is a bad idea if you ask me...
The car metaphor was to try a make the point..
I have been with my wife 11 years we only got married last june......
Thats a long time to wait.......with no sex
Where as the christian man will probaly get married inside six months so he can get his leg over.......
And not get to know the person before making the commitment.
i talk from my expierence.....
I did`nt get married or have a baby before i was ready.
Foz is right.
Thinking that love will conquer all and crap is nothing but idealistic romantic fantasy.
If you marry someone without knowing them intimately, you're taking a huge gamble. Sex is a giant part of a relationship.
Same goes for marrying without living with the person first. A lot changes when you live with someone. I have a friend who got married and separated within a few months because of this, and I was in a long term relationship that changed drastically when we moved in together.
I'm not saying that romance is dead or anything (I'm a hopeless romantic myself), but those old-fashioned views just aren't realistic.
I totally respect someone who will wait until they fall in love to have sex- they want to keep sex as something special, and that's cool. But marriage is just a technicality; why on earth wait until you're married to consummate your love? Show your partner how much they mean to you, the good old fashioned way ^_^
Me? I just can't get any :o
Living with someone is a different story, little pet peeves can drive you insane, but sorry, sex isn't that important to me. Maybe I'm a defect or something. Sex can cloud judgement and keep terrible relationships going for years before they end in one terrible explosion. My mother and father married so they could have sex, and after 25 years my brothers and I were forced to live in a split family. Maybe that affects my point of view a lot. If you've been together for a year or more and haven't had sex yet with no major relationship problems, then it can't really hurt much, that I'm not debating.
Surely it's the other way around? I mean, if two people never have sex then there's always gonna be a tension there that will cloud their judgement; whereas if they get it all over and done with then the air will be clear of hormones for a bit so they can see whether they really do like each other or not.
I think waiting before marriage to have sex is stupid. I think having sex left right and centre is just as stupid, although more satisfying.
I say if you love a person, judge for yourself when is the right time.
The long and short of it; Underage sex is wrong, like underage drinking and smoking. Sex before marriage IMHO is fine. Do whatever is right for you and your partner. Personally, I'd rather have sex with someone I love rather than someone I only just met. Where there's love, there's passion - and when there's passion there's a much better ride. ;)
And I still hate teenage pregnancy. Ick. And sex does still sell. Its in our faces 24/7, magazines, TV, radio, films... Ugh.
Quote from: Ami on Thu 15/04/2004 23:40:41I say if you love a person, judge for yourself when is the right time.
I agree with the first part of what you said, but the people who I'm thinking of (who will have terrible relationships based only on their sexual attraction to each other) aren't capable of judging when the proper time is, they just want sex.
It's not so simple as yes or no.. I probably couldn't fit all of my thoughts on this in a book, because there are so many factors.
Quote from: m0ds on Fri 16/04/2004 00:51:52
The long and short of it; Underage sex is wrong, like underage drinking and smoking.
I think its pretty bad that people are having sex earlier and earlier in life. In my final year of high school, one of my friends younger brother who was just starting had sex with someone his age... they were 12... how sick is that? What is the point of even having sex at that age? You've got nothing that special in your pants, and either will your partner... :P
I agree 100% with Moresco. My belief is sex before marriage is wrong. That's a biblical thing, and also an issue of trust.
If people don't agree with it, that's fine by me, but I do get a little annoyed when people post "that's just stupid" and "you're wrong" and "that's just crap speak for 'I can't get any' ". If you want to brag about how you're morally superior to me, pm me and do it in private.
If I'm going to respect other people's rights to get bonked until the cows come home (which I do), I'd appreciate a little of the same respect in return.....
(Not directed at anyone in particular, and not a flame. Just a general observation from various responses)...
Very interesting topic, and some very very very nice answers ;) I totally agree with Moresco and Peter Thomas - I don't believe in premarital sex.
I've heard from a lot of married couples, that once you get married, the sex stops. So might as well get it before you get married.
Once you say I Do, she says I Don't.
Many people thinks that sex is as important as love in couples...
So, some people here wants to go to the marriage, the most sacred (IMO) issue we're going to face in our life without going that it's going to work?
That's a sin... And the worst of all is that people who does not have relations before marriage have such a degree of beliefs that they won't divorce even if their sexual life (consequently their marriage) is a failure... ergo, they condemn theirselfs and their couple to a life of frustrations and sadness... That's the sin, ladies and gentlemen, not following the rules that a jewish sheeperd wrote 3,000 years ago.
Religion is good... as a philosophy... as a reference... But its not a legal stuff. If you have problems with your concience for having relations before marriage, sit and think if you want to incurr in such risk to face marriage without having all the informationn you need.
Last week a girl was telling me about how she is going to Vegas after finals week to get married to a guy she's been dating for four months.. just to say she did it. She declared that she wasn't sure when the divorce would happen, or if it would happen for sure. She might get an annulment.. because she doesn't really want to do it for life right now. So why the hell is she getting married? Beats me.. Some people just don't care.
I guess I should mention I also don't care what anyone else does, it's just my personal view that it's not the best thing to do, and certainly a lot more complex than "trying out the car."
That girl is dumb... I mean - REALLY dumb...
I think teh Butcher said it best in the EZBoard topic:
QuoteWhy would someone miss his virginity???
Sex is a human need and one of the best ways to have fun we get in life. Of course that doesn't mean you can't love someone because you don't have a sexual relationship with her, or that sex is the only thing that keeps a relationship together...but let's face it: It is the strongest base for a love relationship. Otherwise it's just friendship.
Sex is a need, a natural thing that we all eventually must experience to be healthy human beings. If it's a sin, than why isn't breathing, sleeping, or love a sin?
That said, you can't treat sex as freely as you do taking a dump in the bathroom. It's not just about ejaculating into some stranger only to find another to bend over tomorrow.. If you find someome you love and respect, it can be an emotional experience-- not just a bodily function, like it's doubles masturbating :P .
Peter: I'm curious-- What do you think you'll be missing out on if you have sex before marriage? Is there really any difference, as long as it's heppening with someone you love?
Quote from: Ben on Fri 16/04/2004 03:16:19
If it's a sin, than why isn't breathing, sleeping, or love a sin?
I completely respect your judgement, Ben, I really truly super-dooly do!
I could give a twenty-three point logic to answer your question, but it's really not necessary. It's a sin because it's BREAKING TRUST. If you disagree, that's great, but that is the reason why we regard it as a sin. Simple as that. Breathing, loving etc, isn't breaking a trust issue.
Sorry if it sounds like a nag - I was just trying to answer a question that seems to be in every seceon person's post...
You can't argue against one side of the coin by bringing up an extreme case. Most people seem to do things like that. A lot of people that don't have sex before marriage live wonderfully rich and fulfilling lives just as plenty of people who do have sex and live with their parter for a long time before sex will eventually get a divorce or lead an unhappy marriage.
However, I think the argument for sex before marriage is better given like this: If you do have sex before marriage (and that doesn't necessarilly make it rash or sleazy - relationships reach a point where it's just the right time and most well-rounded people can tell when that is), AND live with your partner for a good few years before getting married (which to me is the most important thing, you NEVER know a person without living with them for almost every single day for years. Not just one year either... you have to experience a chunk of your life with them), your chances of having chosen your life partner wisely (that line totally reminds me of the old knight in Indiana Jones: Last Crusade ^_^) and living a relatively happy, well-balanced and harmonious life are GREATLY increased.
I believe in sex before marriage - I've done it heaps! (Sorry, I couldn't resist -_- I know it's an old joke... ack.)
I honestly would never, ever in my life look hopefully upon a marriage that happens before sex or moving in together for a long time.
I think someone once said something like until you've seen your partner on the toilet, had to look after them with an awful, disgusting cold and similar things like that, you're not ready for marriage.
EDIT: Peter, could you explain to me how it's breaking a trust? I'm not trying to flame you or anything, honestly, I just want to understand. I just can't get my head around it.
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 03:23:27
I completely respect your judgement, Ben, I really truly super-dooly do!
(http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/nedflanders/03.jpg)
DG always has the right picture for any situation... ;D
KINOKO: It's breaking trust because we believe sex is pretty addictive (don't pretend you don't either ;) ), and if you get 'addicted' to sex outside of marriage, it's hard to cope with 'limited' sex INSIDE marriage (let's face it, not everyone has the drive of a porn star). Thus it makes thoughts of infidelity cross your mind blah blah
I'm not saying everyone is like this - I certainly believe there are exceptions to the rule, however Christians prefer not to take that risk...
Thanks for clarifying that.. I was about to ask the same thing, before Kinoko beat me to it :P
I should mention that I respect your views much more now that you've explained them. Sex certainly can be addictuve (as much as drugs/alcohol, even if it's a mental addiction and not a physical one), and can be destructive if you have little or no self control. I guess we all need to find our own way to cope..
I think like any addiction you just have to have lots of other things in your life. A lot of people who get addicted or consumed by certains are doing so because there's too much room in their lives for it. There was a time when I had just moved in with my boyfriend and I got niggley over the stupidest things because I wasn't working, wasn't at uni, and I just had all day to stew over things - really ridiculous things. Now that I've experienced a lot of things and I do a lot with my life (like spending all night making adventure games! ^_-) I'm a much more personable gal.
Of course the other big thing is that young couples often think they have to have a certain kind of relationship to be normal or to prove that they do in fact, have a good relationship. Like "We only have sex once a week! What's WRONG with us?? It's not normal, we need counselling!!". People do need to realise that just living happily in your own way is what's important. Good sex is better than frequent sex - and thats only talking about sex. Couples get hang-ups about all sorts of things they think are important, like how much of an interest your partner should have in what you do, what they should or shouldn't do for Valentine's Day and things like that.
DG - Nice ^_^
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 03:45:20
It's breaking trust because we believe sex is pretty addictive (don't pretend you don't either ;) ), and if you get 'addicted' to sex outside of marriage, it's hard to cope with 'limited' sex INSIDE marriage (let's face it, not everyone has the drive of a porn star). Thus it makes thoughts of infidelity cross your mind blah blah
I'm not saying everyone is like this - I certainly believe there are exceptions to the rule, however Christians prefer not to take that risk...
I don't understand your point. I respect your views and all, but that doesn't make sense. What if you are in a relationship, get married and then consumate the marriage... and THEN get addicted to sex, that you then start to think about infidelity...
Its a double-edged blade no matter if you have sex before or after... :-\
If sex is addictive, then anything is addictive, arguably.
Anything is arguably.
Why can't I sleep?
Actually, I was having trouble with that point myself. Just let me clarify...
Are you saying that if you have sex outside of marriage, you may get addicted to it (with the implication that you'll be doing it with more than one person). If you then get married, you won't be able to handle only being able to sleep with just one person, and may commit adultery. Is that it or did I interprete wrong?
If so, I understand that you're saying the chances of you wanting to sleep with someone else once you're married are increased if you've slept with other people previously, but I have to disagree. I think it's just as likely that you may start to experience feelings of limitation if you've only slept with one person and are married (and hence in a sense, "tied") to that one person. Of course that's not necessarilly going to happen at all, but I think it's just as likely a danger as what you're saying.
It could even be argued that having sex outside of marriage with a few people could get curiosity out of your system, and when you meet the person you want to marry and fall in love, the sex with them will be 100 times better than loveless sex and you won't feel the need to look back after that.
Just saying these are possibilities though ^_^ Not concrete.
I agree with Kinoko.
If the sole reason not to have sex before marriage is so that you don't get addicted to it (a condition that very few people actually have. I requires one to need sex 24/7 and not get any enjoyment out of it, except a release of frustration, much like drugs), then the argument is void. It's more about the choices a person make. If they choose to have sex outside of the relationship/marriage, then they are breaking the trust issue, the sex isn't. It is free will, which apparantly was given to humans by GOD because he was allegedly too lazy to ccontrol humans. God gives free will, people choose to have an affair. I think the problem is with GOD. Blame GOD, everyone else does.
The chances of having an affair are probably greater when a person has only one sexual partner, as the mind tends to wander and think, what would sex be like with THAT person as opposed to my wife. That is THOUGHTaffair. Now if they follow through with the transaction (a word i probably shouldn't use but i am too lazy to use a more appropriate word), then they commit adultery. When you have had experience, you are less likely to go shopping, as you have been down that path before, and you are ready to settle down.
If this makes sense to anyone but me, i'd be suprised!!
Makes total sense to me! SURPRISE!
Actually, I have to disagree with Pirate Jack.
83% of all affairs occurr when the partner doing the cheating has had sex with multiple people. That's because they experience 'levels' of sex (good, bad, awful, fan-freaking-tastic), and can easily become unsatisfied when they think the sex-level is slipping.
Only 0.3% of "Christian" affairs are the result of people getting 'tired' with the one spouse.
And - as I've said repeatedly, I know not everyone get's addicted to sex! But what happens if you are the 1 in 70 (or whatever the stats are) that ARE?! Christians (again, as I said before) prefer not to take that risk.
And it's not JUST about the trust thing, either. That's just the most common-sensical explanation used... It's also quite exciting to share that 'special something' with the person you plan to spend your life with. If you've done it with every second girl on the street, there's nothing super-duper fantastic about it.
Another reason is pregnancy. Despite the pill, condoms etc etc, you can never NEVER guarantee with 100% confidence that something won't go wrong. The condom might break, as well as all other manner of things. What happens if the girl DOES fall pregnant?! Christians don't believe in abortion (that is a generalisation. There's debate when it comes to things like pregnancy after rape etc), and they certainly don't believe in just walking away and dumping child support with the mum every month...
I could go on, but there's no need to....
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 07:24:00
Only 0.3% of "Christian" affairs are the result of people getting 'tired' with the one spouse.
Acutally, the rate is a lot higher.
You're probably only looking at divorce statistics because that's the only concrete way to tell when a one spouse is tired of the other.
And many Christian couples don't divorce because the sanctity of marriage prohibits it.
So, I have a feeling that the number of people tired with their spouses in Christian relationships is higher -- but you just can't measure it, because Christians can't do a thing about their spouse if they're sick of them.
QuoteAnother reason is pregnancy. Despite the pill, condoms etc etc, you can never NEVER guarantee with 100% confidence that something won't go wrong. The condom might break, as well as all other manner of things. What happens if the girl DOES fall pregnant?! Christians don't believe in abortion (that is a generalisation. There's debate when it comes to things like pregnancy after rape etc), and they certainly don't believe in just walking away and dumping child support with the mum every month...
These things are called "risks".
Human beings adapt to them.
In high school, my best friend got his girlfriend pregnant by accident.
However, they've got two kids, are happily married, she's working in law and he's working a senior position at the local Woolworths.
So, don't scare people with the "WHAT IF THE GIRL BECOMES PREGNANT?" routine.
People accept it, live with it, and turn out fine.
"So, don't scare people with the "WHAT IF THE GIRL BECOMES PREGNANT?" routine."
unless i missed a sentence somewhere it seems like Peter has said many times "these are my personal views and i don't judge anyone by them, you can do what you want."
so he isn't trying to scare or convert anyone
he's just rockin' along to his own thing and letting everyone else rock on to theirs
which is the only way to rock
edit: crap sorry! there's another way to rock that i forgot about, you can "Rock out with your cock out." phew! that would have been embarrassing
There is a long way to go between having pre-marriage sex and an addiction to sex. Just if a person chooses to have sex before marriage, doesn't mean he'll go around banging everything he sees.
But ultimately, I think this debate is pointless. It's a matter of free choice, and truly there is no right or wrong here. If you want to save yourself for that special someone, go ahead. If you don't, just as well.
THANK YOU, ERIC!
I am deeply in love with you, and now wish to have your child. Repeatedly. I shall change gender JUST to make it possible....
Yes, DG, I am aware of what dictionary.com defines as a risk. It's a relatively common word. But that doesn't make it safe or right.
Robbing a bank is a risk, because - hell - you could get shot.
I know there's a difference between banks and sex blah blah blah - but it explains my viewpoint.
If you want to take the risk - fine. I don't
P.S - I realise I talk to much, and I often seem to get very defensive about things..... I'm trying my hardest to remain sedated... forgive me...
Although this has little to do with all that has been discussed so far, one thing that surprises me is the evolution of this so called "love" and "sex and dating". Humanity has to reproduce to survive. So what did Nature do? It made them ENJOY doing....umm...
*Babloyi thinks for a euphemism that has not been used yet*
...jig-jig ;D. Of course, that, which while perhaps helped in reproduction, caused a whole bunch of moral problems, and then what? Someone thought up contraception.
Quote from: Kinoko on Fri 16/04/2004 03:27:37
that line totally reminds me of the old knight in Indiana Jones: Last Crusade ^_^
Someone brought that up! The poor knight! He stayed for 800(?) years in a temple underground with no one else. I wonder what he did to pass time?
The answer is... |\/| @ 5 T 3 R 8 @ T 1 0 |\|
Not... really... Sex is not phisically different than climbing a hill or making jogging... Why do you give such importance? Sure Peter Thomas has something to distract his attention from sex, it's not that difficult...
Eric: That's just my typical cynicism shining through. Please ignore my brutality, everyone. I'm just a cranky bastard, I guess.
Peter Thomas: While I'm sure your "robbing banks-getting a girl pregnant" metaphor explains your viewpoint about taking risks, and while granted I take it that there are many risks that aren't good, that doesn't explain the fact that people cope and adapt through taking risks, which is a positive thing
We make mistakes -- that's part of learning, and a part of humanity.
Some people can't help but make mistakes.
It's part of what drives them.
They have sex out of curiosity, attraction, passion, spite, depression, love, romance, etc -- so many other reasons why people have sex.
And all are human desires and feelings.
And all can lead people to taking stupid risks and making stupid mistakes.
But they're still human -- and the fact that they take such risks is proof of that.
An denying such emotions is like denying your own existence.
At least, in my opinion.
Quote from: Farlander on Fri 16/04/2004 12:58:45
Sex is not phisically different than climbing a hill or making jogging... Why do you give such importance?
Sure it's not that physically different (or maybe it is?) but it sure as hell is emotionally different.
Sex isn't physically different from climbing a hill or jogging? That's a pretty far-out hill! I don't want to climb that hill, frankly. It sounds scary :P
This argument has gone on way too long I think. Let's just all agree that sex is good and we ALL like it.
Agreed.
Wow some interesting responses. I can see I opened up a can of worms by mentioning my beliefs heh. Oops.
Well as for Christians who divorce....what's your point? Bible teaches that if your partner is commiting adultery that you should seperate in divorce. However, you can't remarry, that's a sin. The misconception here is that being a Christian makes you and everyone else instantly perfect or something, which isn't true. I simply stated that my viewpoint was different. The really interesting thing about the Christian discussion is that I stayed a virgin up until I married at the age of 25...and yet even though I did that I was NOT a Christian. Sure I did the whole 'you're saved' bit, but I didn't ever really believe it until AFTER I was married and had my son. I only recently thought of myself as a Christian, so sex-before-marriage being a no-no was never my Godly belief, it was just something I knew I could do because I was never weak because of sex. So this quote below, doesn't apply to me, I wasn't a 'Christian':
Quote from: foz on Thu 15/04/2004 22:35:23
Where as the christian man will probaly get married inside six months so he can get his leg over.......
"Getting my leg over" had nothing to do with why I married my wife. The only good reason I ever had for sex was this boy:
(http://www.moresco.sytes.net/e107_files/images/ethan2.jpg)
Right on, some people actually agreed with me :) I'm shocked. ^^
Quote from: Moresco on Fri 16/04/2004 16:34:58
The only good reason I ever had for sex was this boy:
That sounds a bit different from how you meant it... :o
Anyway, I'm quite a jealous guy and my wife is quite a jealous lady. The thought of her with anyone else would really make me feel sick: it wouldn't matter if that person was before ro after we met, so I'm gald that I'm her first and only and she feels pretty much the same way (although with her Spanish nature, our reactions would be different: I would be very sad and she would be a homicidal maniac) about the reciprocal situation.
Anyway, I think I'd like to get some jogging hints from Farlander sometime. Since he seems to find it equivalent to sex I must be doing something wrong when I jog... I find it equivalent to a heart attack...
Christians leaders saw marriage as a sin. Until the 12th century when the church started to ask money for the marriage.
Most other religions see it as something sacret. The romans saw it as a touch of a god. And there empire wasn't chrushed because everybody was at an orgyclub.
Is sex addictive? I don't know. It probebly is. Otherwise there wouldn't be 16 billion of us.
In that movie "40 days and 40 nights" the guy had some problems. That guy is a loser. I can remember that I didn't had sex for 35 days (and that includes handshakes as well). You know what happened? Nothing. I didn't saw women in underwear. There were no lesbian couples chasing me. Of course there isn't much that could tempt you if you don't watch MTV.
For the people who want to wait after they're married: Sex, like everthing else in life, you get better at it the more you do it. Studie some porn movies before the big night. Because the first time I did it, I didn't know what a clittoris was. ???
Hmm, interesting, let me add my 2 cents to the topic.
I'm only 17 years, so people might say, I'm way too young for this topic, and they are completely right. But the world as it is today forces us with every single way, to believe that it's good to have sex whenever you want that, with their soaps on television, commercials, music, games, etc etc...
I'm also a christian and I wait till marriage, because I believe sexuality isn't something between 2 persons, but 3. Man, Woman, and God.
Though I'm talking about this, I do have to say, I have trouble with it. I mean, with all those things around you, like pornography, girls dressing up sexually, and movies with naked scenes in it. It's really hard for a person of my age (i guess it's hard anyway), to avoid these things.
I also have had alot of trouble with masturbation. I'm glad I came free from that Thank God!, but it's also a sin. Because sexuality was created for a relationship. And relationship is always between someone and someone. Masturbation is focused on yourself, and therefor misses it's goal, wich is called sin.
I though do try to get a girl, do not misunderstand me on that, but I just try to keep everything in line with God. I accept/respect also what other peoples choices are, though I do not agree with their actions.
I hope you got my point!
Masturbation isn't a bad thing, it keeps you subdued and less likely to need sex. The more you get sexual satisfaction the lower your testosterone levels will become, and thus you will be less aggressive, both sexually and otherwise. You will be LESS likely to have unquenchable desires for sex before marriage that way.
Masturbation is also one of the few things the bible makes no mention of whatsoever, so you're labelling as a sin yourself.
Too many people think talking about masturbation and sex is "gross." We all will do or have done both at some point or another.
Why does this need to be such a religious discussion? You can justify abstinence for way more reasons than just religion.. the percentage of girls infected with the nasties at most Uni's is enough to curb my enthusiasm.
Quote from: Kinoko on Fri 16/04/2004 15:03:38
Sex isn't physically different from climbing a hill or jogging? That's a pretty far-out hill! I don't want to climb that hill, frankly. It sounds scary :P
This argument has gone on way too long I think. Let's just all agree that sex is good and we ALL like it.
Can't we like to climb a hill or jogging too? ???
Quote from: Minimi on Fri 16/04/2004 17:29:09
I'm also a christian and I wait till marriage, because I believe sexuality isn't something between 2 persons, but 3. Man, Woman, and God.
God is a stalker!!! :o
Sorry about double posting, I know it's no-no, but I just doesn't know how to post two quotes in the same thread... I'm a n00b...
Quote
Masturbation isn't a bad thing
Indeed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3072021.stm
Anyway, as Barcik says why not just do whatever you're comfortable with. If you enjoy sleeping around then great; if you'd rather wait until marriage then that's fine too.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Fri 16/04/2004 14:13:23
An denying such emotions is like denying your own existence.
Really? I'd just call it resisting temptation...
As for the masturbation issue - in itself it
isn't a sin. There is no mention of it in the bible. However, it is quite clear about the illicit sexual fantasies that go with it...
Matt 5:28-29 (NIV) [Jesus:] "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
So whilst you can wiggle with your wangle all you want, be careful that your best friend's mum doesn't creep in there as well (or whatever other fantasies you freaks have :P)
And I agree with whoever said sex was good. The bible tells us that Christians are to be the BEST lovers in THE WORLD (within marriage, duh!). MUAHAHAHAH!
It is just me or didn't God punished Onan for masterbating? Maybe it's just my edition...
simple answer: no
EDIT:
long answer: Some people argue that Onan was punished for masturbating, but from the context in Genesis 38:6-10, it's quite clear that God put Onan to death not because of the "masturbation" (how it could be masturbation when he was actually having sexual intercourse is beyond me), but because he was shirking his duty to produce children to carry on his brother's name. The Old Testament law called for a brother to marry his widowed sister-in-law and produce a child to carry on the dead man's name (Deuteronomy 25:5-6). This guy Onan knew that if the lady had a child, it wouldn't be considered his, so he "spilt his seed" to prevent her from conceiving. That's why what he did was considered wicked in the Lord's sight. It was his motive that made his action wrong; nowhere does it suggest that his action was wrong in itself.
Don't reply saying that having sex with a widowed-sister-in-law is gross. I know. That's why the law got changed....
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 23:29:43
Quote from: DGMacphee on Fri 16/04/2004 14:13:23
An denying such emotions is like denying your own existence.
Matt 5:28-29 (NIV) [Jesus:] "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
That coming from someone whose parents weren't married... that is, if you believe that god did get Mary pregnant and not some guy who the whore got knocked up by... ;)
God was the one who 'got' mary pregnant, so to speak.
Mary would've been in her very early teens when she gave birth to Jesus. Jospeh would've been maybe 17 (exact age unclear)
It would've been near impossible for Mary to have sex with someone else at such an early age, and to not show any physical signs of it...
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sat 17/04/2004 00:06:47
God was the one who 'got' mary pregnant, so to speak.
Mary would've been in her very early teens when she gave birth to Jesus. Jospeh would've been maybe 17 (exact age unclear)
It would've been near impossible for Mary to have sex with someone else at such an early age, and to not show any physical signs of it...
So what is your point? Maybe she was a very smart chick who had been getting around for years, and who know how to cover her tracks. ;)
My dear friend Os - you do like to tread on thin ice, don't you! ;D 8)
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sat 17/04/2004 00:18:35
My dear friend Os - you do like to tread on thin ice, don't you! ;D 8)
I tell it how I think it... and I is thinking this right now...
You have the capacity to make me think unwholesome thoughts.........
...I like you...
...and hate you..........all at once.... ;D (kidding)
Oh no! Not UNWHOLESOME THOUGHTS!!! :o
Last time: about 5 hours ago.
Addictive? Probably. My g/f and I do it about three or four times every time we see each other.
Premarital sex moral? why not (discounting religion)?
sin to mastubate? probably more of a sin to have sex outside of wedlock. most of us regularly offend God far more by some of the other things we do every day.
QuoteI also have had alot of trouble with masturbation. I'm glad I came free from that Thank God!, but it's also a sin.
Do you mean to say that you've stopped completely? How on Earth is that possible?
oh, and Ned Flanders, WHERE ARE YOUR FINGERS, YOU NAUGHTY MAN!
QuoteDo you mean to say that you've stopped completely? How on Earth is that possible?
My sentiments exactly...
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 23:29:43
As for the masturbation issue - in itself it isn't a sin. There is no mention of it in the bible. However, it is quite clear about the illicit sexual fantasies that go with it...
Matt 5:28-29 (NIV) [Jesus:] "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
What if you masturbated without the illicit sexual fantasies.. like if you masturbated to the concept of waiting until marriage to have sex, or didn't put a face but masturbated to your future wife.. or if you just thought about how much Jesus loves you and orgasmed to that concept, would Jesus be mad?
This is some freaky shit....
Quote from: Squinky on Sat 17/04/2004 04:10:58
This is some freaky shit....
Whats so freaky about us discussing if god banged Mary or not? :-\
Shabz: as long as you keep your mind 'clean' so to speak, then there is nothing wrong with masturbation. It's certainly better than going out and getting bonked every couple of hours.....
although I'm yet to meet a man (or woman, I suppose) who can masturbate over a boiled egg...
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sat 17/04/2004 04:57:17although I'm yet to meet a man (or woman, I suppose) who can masturbate over a boiled egg...
What about eggie? ::)
eggie is neither man nor woman.
Eggie is! And that's all there is to it. Eggie just simply is!
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Sat 17/04/2004 04:57:17
although I'm yet to meet a man (or woman, I suppose) who can masturbate over a boiled egg...
Hmm... a hard boiled egg would fit quite nicely down there....
Nahhh-- it would probably break up inside. Nice idea, though.
Peter Thomas, I do not agree with you about the masturbation part. It's wonderful that your also a christian, really I mean it, but I do not agree with you saying "It's ok because it's not in the bible".
If you ever heard of it, you have the Rhema word and Logus word. So you have the word of God in the Bible, and also the word of the Holy Spirit inside you. Masturbation is a form of sexuality. It's only based on yourself. You said yourself "resisting temptation", and this is one of them. It's a very hard one, I know, but with the help of God you can stand strong to it. If you think masterbating is a holy thing from God, then you know another than I do. Let me ask you this :
Would you masterbate when Jesus would be in the same room as you? That you say to Jesus : "Yo, wait a moment, I need to masterbate, but after that I will continue worshipping you!". That sounds pretty odd to me!
Well, just think about it, and if you want to talk further, it might be better to private message it, because it seems like this topic is going off-topic.
Quote from: Minimi on Sat 17/04/2004 18:22:10
Would you masterbate when Jesus would be in the same room as you? That you say to Jesus : "Yo, wait a moment, I need to masterbate, but after that I will continue worshipping you!". That sounds pretty odd to me!
Hmmm, I don't know about this line of argument...just because you wouldn't do it with jesus in the room dosen't mean it's wrong, my man. Lets say you are married and you decide you wanna get funky with your old lady (which is completely cool by Jesus in most christian religions, right?) Would you turn to jesus and say "Hey, I need to go hump my better half" with him in the room? Or take a crap, or any other nasty thing people have to do all the time?
Quote from: Squinky on Sat 17/04/2004 19:06:57
Quote from: Minimi on Sat 17/04/2004 18:22:10
Would you masterbate when Jesus would be in the same room as you? That you say to Jesus : "Yo, wait a moment, I need to masterbate, but after that I will continue worshipping you!". That sounds pretty odd to me!
Hmmm, I don't know about this line of argument...just because you wouldn't do it with jesus in the room dosen't mean it's wrong, my man. Lets say you are married and you decide you wanna get funky with your old lady (which is completely cool by Jesus in most christian religions, right?) Would you turn to jesus and say "Hey, I need to go hump my better half" with him in the room? Or take a crap, or any other nasty thing people have to do all the time?
Exactly what I was thinking. Some other things I wouldn't do if Jesus were real:
Pick my nose
Fart
Jog
Other Exercises
Smell my dirty socks
Pee
Check my testicles for signs of cancer
Look lustfully at pictures of Mary
It wouldn't matter if he were in the room or not, because isn't he supposed to be omnipotent (and by omnipotent, I don't mean he's always watching everywhere but the bathroom stall).
Omnipotent is all-powerful, not all-seeing. Omnispective is all-seeing.
But if you're all-powerful, surely you can see anywhere you want?
Quote from: Pumaman on Sat 17/04/2004 22:51:37
But if you're all-powerful, surely you can see anywhere you want?
Don't pretend this is a purely theoretical situation for you, I feel your eyes burning into my skull..
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 23:29:43
Really? I'd just call it resisting temptation...
I'd call that being repressed.
And to everyone else: Everytime you masturbate, a kitten DIES!
It's a good damn thing I hate kittens....I lucked out on that one...
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sun 18/04/2004 04:46:39
I'd call that being repressed.
You mean when a husband gets so angry he is about to beat his wife, but then
resists the temptation he is actually repressing himself?
I know what your perspective is, but temptation isn't about repression. It's about not doing things that are bad (aka sinful). If that's still classified as repression, then I'm jolly well happy to say I'm repressed and
glad to be!
That omni-potent/spective/present was just a consideration issue. All Christians believe that God is everywhere and can see everything. But that doesn't mean we always behave like it. What Minimi said was just to re-focus the attention. Because Jesus cannot
physically be in the room.
Not yet, anyway...
Minimi, no offense, but your last post was the most nonsensical post I've read in years....dunno if it was a joke or not, though
Before you read this post, their are opinions within that you may or may not agree with. Since the topic has moved to theology, here are my opinions. 8)
Do blow jobs and growling pussy count as sex? Masturbation (with something other than a hand) or what?! It that ok?! Does the bible state 'THOU SHALT NOT GIVE HEAD'??
Did you know the bible (new testiclement) was written over 50 years after Jesus Died! How the hell is a story to remain fully intact after that much time. There is surely some parts of it that were written after the events happened. And what about the old testament? Do you believe genesis? If all that stuff happened, then how did they write it down? They didn't have any written language apart from cave drawings, which certainly wouldn't have been created immediatly.
So how can someone be sure that what is written in the bible is exactly what GOD and JESUS apparantly have said?
Did you know that the Jewish word for hell used to be a place they sent prisoners? It apparantly had alot of fire (probably oil or something). People used to say, don't commit a crime or you will go to HELL. So hell really existed?!! Yes. Is it a place a person goes after they die if they have 'SINNED'?? No. It was a prison. Nothing more, nothing less.
Religions were created so the UNEXPLAINED could be EXPLAINED. In the age of science that we are currently in, the concept of religions are dying out. Do you know how much wealth the catholic church has? It's not easy to say, but if you add together all the property, and donations and sales of bibles, funeral plots, etc, it would probably be enough to solve world hunger, homelessness and other humanitarian problems.
In summary, if the church tells you not to have sex before marriage, why listen. They are all child molesters and you know it!!! :P
does it really matter to you what Peter believes in? As I said before it's just his opinion and he doesn't impress it on anyone else so what's the harm?
He's chosen how to live his life and you've chosen yours, isn't that good enough?
Not it doesn't matter in any way what others believe, it's just some people believe in something so blindly, i feel i should inform them otherwise, for their own benefin, not mine.
And as for my post above eric's, you can choose whether or not to take it all seriously. There is alot of silliness in there. This sex talk has turned into a theological discussion, I felt I should add my opinions on the matter.
Jeez, people are so fucking uptight these days! I know DG has the same problems, he posts something and someone goes, YOU CAN'T SAY THAT, THOSE ARE HIS OPINIONS.
Well, these are my opinions.
but you have no idea how "blind" his beliefs are. You just know that he's Christian... He could have debated his beliefs for years and years before coming to a conclusion, he could be the world's leading scholar in Christianity and you don't know. It seems like you're blindly following your own beliefs by just lumping him together with someone else you met.
now about your edit, not that I see any reason for it. What did I do that was so bad? What did I say? So you can express your opinion... and Peter can express his... and you can diss him over his opinions and everyone isn't uptight, everyone's all loosey goosey... And then big bag old Eric comes in and says "Hey, cut him some slack" and OH SHIT!! OH NO!! CENSOR CENSOR!! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! LOOK OUT!!
Get over yourself, I didn't tell you to stop posting and I didn't say anything negative about you, I just asked a simple question... Boo hoo
I know, I was just cracking a DGMacphee. I'm sorry, I just meant it as a light hearted post with a few opinions of my own.
But back to SEX!
15 year olds disgust me. I was a supervisor for my friends brother's 15th birthday party. 15 year old chick are all really slutty these days.
And 15 year old chicks are ALL bi-sexual. Every one of them!!! They all promote how bi-sexual they are, and show off by kissing girls and telling everyone they are bi-sexual.
And the guys are dirty rotton molestors. There was a Jumping castle at this party, and all the guys were intentionally bouncing into chicks and grabbing their tits and arse by 'accident'.
Fucking disgusting behavior.
Kid's these days...
Quote from: Pirate Jack on Sun 18/04/2004 18:16:18
Not it doesn't matter in any way what others believe, it's just some people believe in something so blindly, i feel i should inform them otherwise, for their own benefin, not mine.
That's not cool at all. Do you want christians doing the same to you? It's the same concept.
One word
SANTIAGRUARO!!!11!11!
Quote from: Pirate Jack on Sun 18/04/2004 18:39:50
And 15 year old chicks are ALL bi-sexual. Every one of them!!! They all promote how bi-sexual they are, and show off by kissing girls and telling everyone they are bi-sexual.
I knew there was something wrong about my sister!
P.S. And what were YOU doing while the 15 years-old kids engaged in actes of bi-sexuality and tit-groping?
Supervising.
It's true, mid-teens are sexually fucked up in the head. Heaps of girls that age do love to show others how much of a bisexual they are (they really, really, really do love to brag, or leak the info out) and of course, heaps of teen boys are still dirty. I have nieces and nephews that are closing in on those ages... it's terrifying @_@
I don't think there's anything wrong in a debating situation (which we all are right now) to tell someone that you believe their belief is wrong, or even stupid. I mean, imagine if someone believed that incest was okay, or (I always use this argument) killing babies. Would any of us stand for that? I think not. We wouldn't take, "Look guys, this is just my opinion. You don't have to agree, but let me be free to believe in it".
Jack was giving his argument as to why he believes religion is ...er... naive. He did it bluntly, yes, but in the end he was just challenging what Peter has been saying. That's a debate! That's what we're all here doing (well, that's what it's become). Peter HAS been saying what he believes are sins.
We should ALL be intelligent enough to figure out that some things he said were jokes, and some were him defending his own opinion.
Peter Thomas: Comparing the urge to masturbate to the urge to beat your wife is the most extremist comparison I've ever heard of.
Beating your wife causes harm to a sentient human being.
Beating your meat doesn't.
Why don't you stay on task and actually prove to me your points on masturbation instead of using extremist comparisons of wife-beating and bank robbing?
If you actually discussed "masturbation", instead of "wife-beating" and "bank robbing", I might take your points of view more seriously.
I mean, if I used such extremist logic, I could say "Masturbation is like patting a puppy because you don't hurt a sentient creature. I WIN!"
Quote from: Minimi on Sat 17/04/2004 18:22:10
Would you masterbate when Jesus would be in the same room as you? That you say to Jesus : "Yo, wait a moment, I need to masterbate, but after that I will continue worshipping you!". That sounds pretty odd to me!
Good Lord! I wouldn't make poo poo neither when some other person is in the bathroom and I DON'T think that it can be considered sin! ???
Reminds me of a Family Guy episode. ;D
Quote from: DGMacphee on Sun 18/04/2004 04:46:39
Quote from: Peter Thomas on Fri 16/04/2004 23:29:43
Really? I'd just call it resisting temptation...
I'd call that being repressed.
And to everyone else: Everytime you masturbate, a kitten DIES!
I thought angels got there wings?
Well, you all saw Britney revealing that she actually HAD sex with Justin, before the marriage. About the sex and dating thing... Sex on the first date is really bad :P Because I know. You don't have time to get feelings for a person, before jumping to bed with her. Even though, she was the one that wanted sex :o I wasn't ready for her, and that means also that little man down there, wasn't ready for her either.
I'd say; Wait. Don't have sex on the first date. Wait till you're both ready.
Even though, she skipped the foreplay, and jumped right into the sex-part. That made it all BAD
Now she turned out to be a bitch.
I haven't had sex since November, but who gives a shit?
I have my whole life ahead of me! [evil murray laughter]Muahahahha! [/evil murray laughter]
Even if you did have a wank in front of Jesus, he'd forgive you, right? Isn't that how it works?
I agree that having sex on a first date (given that a date is someone you're considering for a serious relationship) is a bad idea. I don't think it's "wrong" as such but... you know, is probably not a smart decision.
If you're after casual sex though, and the other person is after the same thing, ain't nothing wrong with that ^_^
Sex is icky. Put your appendage in a tunnel lined with protein-based viscous fluid that isn't very different from mucus. You'll enjoy a unique and similarly pleasurable experience engaging in nasal sex. I've never had sex and I never will.. too damned disgusting.
Quote from: yakwork on Wed 21/04/2004 08:22:06
Sex is icky. Put your appendage in a tunnel lined with protein-based viscous fluid that isn't very different from mucus. You'll enjoy a unique and similarly pleasurable experience engaging in nasal sex. I've never had sex and I never will.. too damned disgusting.
Being alive is icky, with that attitude. Do you realize how much snot you swallow?
Is it just me... or are there too many threads on sex lately?
For me, one is enough.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Wed 21/04/2004 08:36:40
Being alive is icky, with that attitude. Do you realize how much snot you swallow?
Yes. I'm constantly filled with self-disgust at the thought of being in contact with my body's yuckier fluids. Sex? I'm boycotting it until they make it affordable.
Quote from: Creed Malay on Mon 19/04/2004 10:47:22
Even if you did have a wank in front of Jesus, he'd forgive you, right? Isn't that how it works?
You are absolutely 100% right.
But also 100% wrong.
You could kill someone and god would forgive you. That doesn't make it okay to do it again though.
The whole point of becoming a christian is to say: "okay - I know I do wrong things, but I will try to stop doing them". People who just abuse it and say "I do what I want, coz god loves me" aren't true christians.
And DG: I agree. My point was very extremist, although if I were to hunt through all your previous posts in other threads and quote your extremist statements, this would be a massively long message. You don't use them to pinpoint your argument. You use them to
illustrate. Anyone who claims repression is the same as resisting temptation is (from a biblical point of view) wrong. If you wanted to run free around the fields, but weren't able to, that is repression. Resisting temptation is being PERFECTLY CAPABLE of doing something wrong and immoral, but choosing not to do it for righteous reasons.
Fair enough. So what would happen if I had a wank in front of Shiva the Destroyer?
You'd likely be embarrassed because he has more hands than you.
If I knew who the hell you were talking about, I might comment.
(don't laugh at me just because I'm an unsociable being unaware of apparently 'finer points' in life..)
Multi-armed Hindu god. But actually, after a brief google search, I realise I was thinking of Vishnu. Never mind.
Straneg thought, but I can't get it out of my head, now - what WOULD Jesus do if you wanked in front of him? Ignore you? Ask you politely to stop? What?
I feel a "second coming" joke hiding around here somewhere.
But, if someone's reaction to Jesus appearing in clouds of fire, etc. is to "get out their joystick and play" then they've got serious problems even if Jesus is merciful to them!
PT: How can my views be extremist when I base them on a different ideas and philosophies whereas you're basing yours on a strictly biblical one?
I may use extremist statements from time to time (I wouldn't say they'd fill the whole thread to breaking point, as you'd suggest), but at least I'm using them to illustrate a variety of points of view, whereas you're using yours to illustrate a very narrow point-of-view.
I'm not wrong about resisting temptation being a form of repression and here's why:
Going back on topic, you even mentioned before that Jesus said, "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
That's repression of thought -- By Jesus' words, we are not allowed to think for ourselves.
From a biblical point of view, we have to follow exactly what Jesus and God say -- or else we "go to hell".
That IS repression.
That's why I think Christianity is one of the most repressive religions out there (and I can provide more examples, both in the bible and from religious organisations).
There's nothing unrighteous about masturbation -- It doesn't hurt any sentient being, it's consentual, and there are a lot of people who do it and lead normal lives.
But to deny thoughts is repression, just as you have illustrated and I have demonstrated.
Thus, I'm not wrong.
OH WHO AM I KIDDING PETER THOMAS WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG IN FACT TOMORROW I'LL GO TO MY LOCAL CHURCH AND CONVERT BACK TO BEING A CHRISTIAN!1!!! I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!!!
HALLELUJAH!!1!
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 21/04/2004 13:37:54
PT: How can my views be extremist when I base them on a different ideas and philosophies whereas you're basing yours on a strictly biblical one?
Because basing your extremist views on different ideas and philosophies does nothing to dispute that you are an extremist (a person who holds extreme views or uses extreme comparisons).
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 21/04/2004 13:37:54That's why I think Christianity is one of the most repressive religions out there (and I can provide more examples, both in the bible and from religious organisations).
I wonder how extensively you've studied others. I think most of them are fairly extreme, probably the most extreme in large practice is Islam though, because they still carry out stonings and divine murder.
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 21/04/2004 13:37:54OH WHO AM I KIDDING PETER THOMAS WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG IN FACT TOMORROW I'LL GO TO MY LOCAL CHURCH AND CONVERT BACK TO BEING A CHRISTIAN!1!!! I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT!!!
I'm sure with your valuable insight other people surely feel the same way about your opinions. It's hard to tell if you're joking or if you really believe you are so indisputably right about all of this.
I wonder how many of the thousands or millions of people in the world called Jesus make a 'second coming' joke after/during/before sex. Does anyone know the word for 'coming' or 'ejaculating' in Spanish? ^_^ I only took Spanish for a year, so I never got around to learning all those REALLY useful words...
Why is it that shbazjinkens is allowed to nitpick, but I can't?!?!?
First of all, I'm not an extremist -- I'm very open to other people's opinions as I don't strictly believe in one thing. Many of my points of view are based upon different sides of a coin. For example, I believe drugs can create enlightening experiences, but I believe they should be used responsibly. I believe some drugs are good and some are bad. Nothing extremist about that. I don't strictly adhere to one principle. I do exaggerate, but that hardly makes me an extremist. I mean, if I'm an extremist, what am I so extreme about?
Second of all, you're talking to an ex-Christian. I've also studied a variety of religions in high school. Yes, Islam is extreme. But you'll notice I said Christianity is "one of the most extreme". Not "the most extreme". I also find it somewhat biased to say Islam is an extremist religion and more so than Christianity based upon stonings and murders. I mean, what the hell do you call pro-lifers murdering doctors? Sure, not all people who believe in Islam are extremists and not all Christians are extremists. However, I do hold both in the same regard.
And as for that final quote, I'M DEADLY SERIOUS! PRAISE THE LORD!!11!
/me goes off to listen to some Creed.
By all means man, I forgot all about that silliness.
As far as sex:
Different folks, different strokes. So to speak.
Alot of people enjoy simply the physical pleasure, whereas others hope to add meaning to sex. I think maybe sex is meaningless, and people should put meaning into being with eachother for an amount of time.
Say you get married and it takes you four years to convince your wife to experiment with a certain orifice.
You soon get divorced and you find out her first night on the town, some random guy gets first shot at that same orifice. Well, obviously this is meaningless (rather than say revenge) and she will most likely not spend much time with this guy. Whereas you had four years of great pyschology lessons and one final goal accomplished.
QuoteBy all means man, I forgot all about that silliness.
Whoa, dude! I didn't expect you to reply THAT soon! ;D
Of course, what do you think "evenatlab" is? I have scouts posted round the clock watching over your every move, ready to post and critique the smallest detail of your replies!
holy shit!! You too Even?!
We gotta compare notes at the next DG-Con
Quote from: DGMacphee on Wed 21/04/2004 15:01:00
Why is it that shbazjinkens is allowed to nitpick, but I can't?!?!?
First of all, I'm not an extremist -- I'm very open to other people's opinions as I don't strictly believe in one thing. Many of my points of view are based upon different sides of a coin. For example, I believe drugs can create enlightening experiences, but I believe they should be used responsibly. I believe some drugs are good and some are bad. Nothing extremist about that. I don't strictly adhere to one principle. I do exaggerate, but that hardly makes me an extremist. I mean, if I'm an extremist, what am I so extreme about?
I'm not allowed to do anything anyone else isn't allowed to do.
You ended one of your posts with, "Thus, you are wrong." I don't think you're truly as open as you say you are. Indeed, I'm not Christian and I don't agree with most of this stuff either, but you're not arguing with things that can be concretely solved. The Bible has so many contradictions, rebuts, and vague statements that it can be interpretted in many ways. You're almost trying to disprove Christianity, which is a far more monolith task than you should try to take on, IMO.
Exaggerate = To enlarge beyond bounds or the truth (to extremes). If I had to pick a general thing you were extreme about, basically most things that you disagree with. Sarcastic extreme, "I'M DEADLY SERIOUS! PRAISE THE LORD!!11!"
QuoteI mean, what the hell do you call pro-lifers murdering doctors?
I don't understand the question. Most Christians are pro-lifers, therefore not murdering doctors, but that doesn't really flow with what you were trying to say, so I don't get it.
QuoteI also find it somewhat biased to say Islam is an extremist religion and more so than Christianity based upon stonings and murders.
I don't. I also think it is more extremist because women are often forced to wear shrouds in public and severely punished for most sins, while Christians are usually free to be promiscuous or whatever so long as they don't do it again (and even then, nothing so dramatic as divine murder would happen). The more liberal Muslims certainly aren't any more extreme than Christians, however.
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Wed 21/04/2004 21:06:02
QuoteI mean, what the hell do you call pro-lifers murdering doctors?
I don't understand the question. Most Christians are pro-lifers, therefore not murdering doctors, but that doesn't really flow with what you were trying to say, so I don't get it.
He meant just what he said; some christians are pro-lifers, yet kill doctors who perform abortion.
Christians throughout history have always had the eye-for-an-eye attitude, although the bible got updated some two thousand years ago, and they wrote a new part where that method was abbandoned, and replaced by turn-the-other-cheek thingie.
Quote from: Andail on Wed 21/04/2004 21:15:03
Quote from: shbazjinkens on Wed 21/04/2004 21:06:02
QuoteI mean, what the hell do you call pro-lifers murdering doctors?
I don't understand the question. Most Christians are pro-lifers, therefore not murdering doctors, but that doesn't really flow with what you were trying to say, so I don't get it.
He meant just what he said; some christians are pro-lifers, yet kill doctors who perform abortion.
Christians throughout history have always had the eye-for-an-eye attitude, although the bible got updated some two thousand years ago, and they wrote a new part where that method was abbandoned, and replaced by turn-the-other-cheek thingie.
I didn't get it because it was grammatically incorrect and could be interpreted a few different ways. In that case though, he's referring to smaller sects of extremists while there are entire countries who have stoning and shrouds written into their law (that's what I meant by mass practice).
I would agree that Christianity can be interpreted as repressive, however I'm not sure that it is. I'm old enough to make my own mind up about things, and I certainly haven't been brainwashed, so it's seems unusual that I would defend something if I found it to be repressive.
Most people (not all, I know. Especially not non-christians) would agree that looking at pornography is wrong - or at least has some distasteful elements to it. Thinking lustful thoughts is like looking at pornography without the screen/magazine. NOT thinking lustful thoughts is a wise choice (for the christian mind), however that doesn't mean it's repressive. Although you are told to try and stop doing dirty things (whether your believe porn is dirty or not is another issue), the bible admits that people often DO think these thoughts. That's where the whole forgiveness issue comes in.
Repression is quite a strong word. It talks about lack of control, being controlled by another force etc. I would find it hard to dispute that the God who is willing to forgive you and accept you for every wrong thing you do is also repressing you. No? Sure - he tells us not to do things, but that's just 'moral conduct' (again - I'm not saying these should be your morals, but they're mine).
Our parents told us 'no' a million times when we were young, but that wasn't repression. That was teaching obedience, and respect. As soon as a big invisible guy in the clouds comes into the conversation, people are quick to accuse him of the same thing being bad...
A typical discussion about religion...
Quote from: Barcik on Wed 21/04/2004 22:30:43
A typical discussion about religion...
Yep. It was only a matter of time before interpretation came into play, which is what makes arguing about religion from a non-religious viewpoint useless.. as everything can be re-interpreted, or "mis-translated," etc.
Tea Party, anyone?
shbazjinkens, three things:
1) Calling me "sarcastic extreme" is a little silly. My "sarcastic extreme" comment was merely a joke and nothing more.
2) Andail understood what I meant by pro-lifers murdering doctors. You should be able to too -- It's a widely publicised topic.
3) Once again, I said Christianity is "one of the most extreme" religions. I'm not trying to make a comparison between Islam. Comparing it with Islam is beside the point. Christianity is still an extreme religion no matter how much you compare it with Islam. Re-read what I said, and you'll see.
MAY TEH LORD BLESS YOU!!1!
*sigh* Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just be friends and make adventure games together. :)
Quote from: DGMacphee on Thu 22/04/2004 00:19:24
shbazjinkens, three things:
1) Calling me "sarcastic extreme" is a little silly. My "sarcastic extreme" comment was merely a joke and nothing more.
2) Andail understood what I meant by pro-lifers murdering doctors. You should be able to too -- It's a widely publicised topic.
3) Once again, I said Christianity is "one of the most extreme" religions. I'm not trying to make a comparison between Islam. Comparing it with Islam is beside the point. Christianity is still an extreme religion no matter how much you compare it with Islam. Re-read what I said, and you'll see.
Yeah, except for #2. I knew about the radical anti-abortion groups murdering doctors but it didn't click immediately because the sentence was badly phrased and it has been a while since that has made headlines. No disrespect, I just didn't get it.
Quote from: Kinoko on Thu 22/04/2004 02:04:43
*sigh* Wouldn't it be nice if we could all just be friends and make adventure games together. :)
Except for the fact that you tried to launch a flame-war thread - tactlessly disguised as a drug issue...
(http://www.sylpher.com/kafka/junk/touche.gif)
It's almost as if some of you have... no sense of humour! Was it removed surgically at some point?
I just think it's silly how serious some of this has become. I'm all for a good debate but this is a gaming forum, surely things should be a little more light hearted here. I light heartedly state that sex is great, and drugs are bad. I don't WANT to get involved in stupid statistic wars, I want to loudly proclaim my stance and then happily talk about smurfs, or lemmings, or why clouds look like kittens sometimes.
...My god! Why DO clouds look like kittens sometimes? Maybe that's where little kitten souls go after death...
Great, now you've made me sad.
EDIT: LOVE that touche picture! ^_^
You are right, Kinoko.
It is terribly hard to say anything on a forum without people telling you you're wrong. However I wasn't aiming to do that... I was just having a lark...
...or whatever you youngin's call it these days...
Um anyway. Back to Sex.
That is what this thread is about, and it has only been lightly touched on.
How many of you have lost your viginity. How many of you believe Virginity is not an issue?
I am most certainly not a virgin. I lost it when I was 18. Some people may think that is a late start, but I didn't have any chances to have sex whilst I was at school. (wait, i had one, but I didn't) Virginity Is not an issue. Many people think it is sacred. They will keep it until they think they love someone, looses it then the person breaks up with them like a week later. THen they are free from the confines of being a virgin and fuck like rabbits.
Teenage girls these days are sluts thanks to christina aguilera.
And now to the topic of Sex positions. Do ytou have a favourite?
haha, take that Darkstalkey!!! :P
/me pretends he is m0ds...
Kinoko. Are you single? U haev a pikture/!?!
uh...
The end.
Some teenage girls are sluts... Okay, most of them are. However there are good ones too. There's this one In my school that I like... even though she's almost FANATICALLY christian.
Slip her some rohypnol in her diet soda and haev your way.
Um...
I'd like to ask about the s&d argument: in your countries (Uk, USA or others) sex education is teached in the schools? Do you think it's useful?
_
Wow, that's got to be a record. An almost 20 year old thread, resurrected. There are probably loads of AGSers who were not even born when this thread was last added to.
My time machine works!
...
Oh...
This thread is equal parts cringe and toxic. :-\
It's not TheFrighter's fault though, as it was first resurrected by a spambot, but the spam post was later deleted so this looks odd now.
I'll close this. Digging up a 20 year old thread about sex is like necrophilia.
TheFrighter: If you want to talk about this subject, please create a new thread for it.