Welcome to the second round of the AGS Werewolf Game!The werwolves have won. They reduced the last village they attacked (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=56254.0) to blood and gore. Now, they are on the loose in
your town. Can you stop them?
Available Roles: (Randomly chosen once players have signed-up)Town Roles:The players who have Town roles do not know the roles of any other players. They will only be informed by the game host via PM of their own specific randomly-determined Town role.
Any player in the game is welcome to communicate with any other player via any form of outside communication (PM, group chat, IRC, facebook, telephone, facebook, etc.) but Town players should probably think long and deeply before doing so... Your "trusted friend" could be a wolf in sheep clothing!
Villager:Ability: None
Alignment: Good
Description: A villager is just a normal member of the town. They have no special ability.
Goal: A villager's goal is to help eliminate all Evil alignment players from the town. A villager's only real tool to help do so is their daily vote for who to lynch. A villager wins the game even if killed before this goal is obtained and thus should be willing to sacrifice themself in the place of a more important Good role if such a situation arises.
The Seer:Ability: Scan another player's role once per night phase.
Alignment: Good
Description: Possessing psychic powers, the seer may select another player to scan once per night phase. That player's role will become known to the seer. Selection of player and scan result is done via PM with the game host.
Goal: The seer's goal is to help eliminate all evil alignment players from the town. The seer should also seek to keep their role secret from the Evil players for as long as possible as the Evil players will be searching for the seer as their most valuable kill on their path to victory. The seer should be very careful with whom they privately share the intel they have gathered on the Evil players and should probably only publicly reveal their role and this intel in a desperate situation or if the importance of the data outweighs the risk of their own death. The seer wins along with the rest of the town if all Evil players are elimated from the town, even if the seer is already dead by this point.
The Fool:Ability: None
Alignment: Neutral
Description: The village idiot.
Goal: The fool's goal is to get themself lynched. The fool only wins if they have been lynched. Getting killed in any other way does not count, nor can they win along with the normal town goal of eliminating all Evil players. A win by the fool does not negate any other wins in the round nor does it stop the round from continuing. The fool should try their best to somehow pose as an Evil player to hasten their lynching.
The Bodyguard:Ability: Guard one player per night phase.
Alignment: Good
Description: The bodyguard is willing to sacrifice themself to save the life of the one they are guarding. Each night-phase the bodyguard may communicate to the game host via PM the name of the player they are guarding. If the guarded player is selected to be killed that night-phase then the bodyguard will be killed in their place and the guarded player will survive.
Goal: The bodyguard wins along with the rest of the town if all Evil players are eliminated. The bodyguard wins whether still alive at this point or not.
Scum Roles:The players who have Scum roles all know the identity of all other scum players. This information will be given to them by the game host via PM at the start of the game.
The Scum players are strongly advised to get in touch with each other via any form of outside communication (PM, group chat, IRC, facebook, telephone, facebook, etc.) to organise their team strategy for defeating the Town...
Werewolf:Ability: Participate in one nightly kill. Knows who all the other werewolves and alpha werewolf are.
Alignment: Evil
Description: Every night the werewolves change from human to wolf. The alpha werewolf decides the target that they will attack and kill.
Goal: The werewolves' goal is to kill all non-werewolf players. In reality this usually means reducing the town population to the point where the good players can no longer maintain a majority or tied vote against them for lynching. All werewolf players win the game at this point whether alive or dead. The werewolves should try their best to appear to be a non-werewolf role by whatever means possible.
Alpha Werewolf:Ability: Decide on and participate in one nightly kill. Knows who all the other werewolves are.
Alignment: Evil
Description: Every night the werewolves change from human to wolf. The alpha werewolf decides the target that they will attack and kill. This decision is communicated to the game host via PM. If the alpha werewolf is ever killed (or goes inactive) a new alpha is chosen from amongst the remaining werewolves randomly by the game host.
Goal: The werewolves' goal is to kill all non-werewolf players. In reality this usually means reducing the town population to the point where the good players can no longer maintain a majority or tied vote against them for lynching. All werewolf players win the game at this point whether alive or dead. The werewolves should try their best to appear to be a non-werewolf role by whatever means possible.
(Role descriptions copied directly from Mandle's introduction of the last game.)The
Role Setup will be determined once I know the number of players (and probably with the help of Mandle, because I do this for the first time).
Gameplay Structure And RulesWerewolf games have two phases: Day Phase and Night Phase.
Day PhaseDuring the Day Phase every member of the village is awake and able to post discussion and votes for lynching in the thread.
People not participating in the game or players who have died are not welcome to post in the thread at all, but are encouraged to watch on as passive viewers.Official votes for a lynch candidate should be
bolded. Non-bolded 'votes' are not counted as such and ignored.
Votes are never final until the Day Phase has officially ended and may be changed at any time until then.
Changed votes must be reposted and
the original post never is to be edited! Which brings us to:
IMPORTANT RULES:NEVER EDIT ANY OF YOUR POSTS FOR ANY REASON! IF YOU POST AND NOTICE ANYTHING IN YOUR POST THAT YOU WISH TO CHANGE IN ANY WAY THEN YOU MUST REPOST THE CORRECTION RATHER THAN EVER EDIT AN EXISTING POST.
NEVER SHOW A SCREENSHOT OF ANY PM YOUR HAVE RECEIVED FROM THE GAME HOST OR COPY/PASTE FROM ONE OR RETYPE TEXT FROM ONE OR IN ANY OTHER WAY ABUSE THIS RULE TO PROVIDE PROOF OF YOUR ROLE, OR FOR WHATEVER OTHER REASON.Spoiler
For example: Telling another player via outside communication or posting in the thread that you have important Seer information about roles is fine, but directly quoting the PM sent from the game host from which this infromation was obtained, showing a screenshot of it, etc. is forbidden!)
Spoiler
This rule exists to avoid resentment from growing within the ranks of the players in this game. It may become advantageous or even necessary at some point for the Evil players to sacrifice one or more of their own on purpose as part of their win strategy. This is known as "Throwing under the bus" in WW game terminology and is a perfectly legal move in the game. But please ask the member to be sacrificed beforehand if you plan to do this and make sure they are okay with it. The only exception would be when the player in question has gone inactive from the game and is unreachable by all other lines of communication. In this case they only have themself to blame.
Casual speculation about same-team members as being the guilty party is perfectly fine in most cases as long as the motive was for the good of the team and not intended to harm the team's or that particular player's chances in the game. This is, in fact, usually a vital strategy in winning for the Evil team players so they do not appear solidated in the eyes of the Good players. Planning such strategies out with your team members via outside communication is strongly advised, of course. Use common sense here and all should be fine.
Jumping on a bandwagon vote already established by another non-team player against a same-team member is legal without prior consultation as there may not be time to do so, but please try to consult beforehand if at all possible, or at least apologize afterwards.
Spoiler
In fact, outside communication is vital to the players whether they be Town or Scum, Evil or Good. Just be careful about who you talk with on the side. Trickery is allowed of course but rule-breaking shenanigans are not! Use common sense here please and, if in doubt, ask the game host first if the move you are planning is legal or not.
Spoiler
Werewolf games are all about playing your cards close to your chest and/or lying your ass off depending on what your role is. I hope the game can be played at a mature and pure level here in AGS without people bringing their RL friendships into the game or taking anything back out from the game to damage such friendships. Nobody should assume a RL friend is their friend in the game, nor should anyone feel that a RL friend has hurt their feelings by tricking them in the game. Common sense advice, I know, but I have seen such things happen in this game. As long as everyone has a laugh and remains friends at the end of the day no matter what happens then the game is a success.
The Day Phase will be about 48 hours and
end in a time frame of three hours.
During these three hours, the host may close the phase at any point but if the host runs late for any reason, players are not allowed to post after the end of the three hour time frame. (Basically, the night phase begins at the end of this time frame (even if the host is running late) or earlier.)
The game host will post now and then to provide a general idea of the amount of time left, especially when time is growing short, but Day Phases may end suddenly at any point during the pfovided three hour time frame so get those votes in while you can. Remember that they can always be changed later if you are in time!
Once the Day Phase has ended the Lynching takes place if a majority vote on a single player has been reached.
If a majority vote has not been reached then no player is lynched and the Day Phase ends.
Tied votes for the player to be lynched result in a stalemate and no player is lynched and the Day Phase ends.
It is not a requirement that the village lynch a player every Day Phase.
A lynched player's role is revealed after their death.
A lynched player may no longer post in this thread but is welcome to continue outside communication and passively follow the game progress in the thread.
For example: If the Seer is lynched by mistake it is legal for them to PM all other players and provide their list of scanned players to date. It's just assumed that they left a journal behind to be discovered or something like that. Of course, it is more dramatic if they do so while still alive in the thread as their final words, but sometimes RL timing doesn't allow such theatrics.
Night Phase:During Night Phase most of the village is asleep and
nobody may post in the game thread.
It is now time for all players with Night Phase abilities to PM their choices to the game host:
The Seer should PM the name of the player they are scanning this night.
The Bodyguard should PM the name of the player they are guarding this night, if any.
The Alpha Werewolf should PM the name of the player the werewolf pack will attack and kill this night.
Night Phase will last about 24 hours or until all night action PMs have been received by the game host.
It is legal to PM the game host with your night action before the Night Phase starts if, for any reason, you cannot maybe be active during the next Night Phase.
Do not send more than one PM with your activities to the host. The first one sent is the action that will take place.
At the end of the Night Phase the game host will send out PMs to players who did private night actions such as scanning with the results.
Then the game host will open the next Day Phase, starting with a report on any casualties which may have occured during the night.
Any players killed during the Night Phase must immediately follow the same rules as lynched players (see above): They may no longer post in this thread but are welcome to continue outside communication and passively follow the game progress in the thread.
If, at any point, the werewolves equal or outnumber the other players they win the game as there is no way for the other players to gain a majority vote against them for lynching choices.(Rules and structures copied nearly identical from Mandel's post for the last round with slight variations.)Rule Changes from the previous round:These changes are mentioned above, but I understand if you didn't want to read the whole thing.
It is enough to
bold the name of the player to be lynched (no need to write Vote: Player Name). That's how we did it last round anyway, so I changed the rule. But only bolded names are counted as a vote.
The Day Phase lasts 48 hours and ends in a time frame of three hours. During this time, the game host may close the phase at any point but if the host is running late, the phase ends automaticlly and the night phase starts. No more posting in the thread after these three hours. Just treat it as the beginning of the night phase with me not having done the write-up yet.
If you have the ability for an action at night, only the first PM the host recieves is counted and happens. I don't think this was an issue last time, I just want to make it clear. So, think first, sent the PM then.
That's all for now. Sign-ups are open.
Current Phase: Sign-up
QuoteYour "trusted friend" could be a wolf in cheap clothing!
I just wanted to point out that going in cheap clothes isn't as bad as going in sheep clothes. (laugh)
Anyway, good luck to those brave souls signing up for the second round. (nod)
Sign me up for round two. I wanna redeem myself.
Quote from: Cassiebsg on Fri 27/07/2018 12:08:05
QuoteYour "trusted friend" could be a wolf in cheap clothing!
I just wanted to point out that going in cheap clothes isn't as bad as going in sheep clothes. (laugh)
Don't you know? Having a bad sense of style is the worst sin ever. (laugh)(laugh)(laugh)
Corrected
I am wanting to have another go with this.
What does this mean? The Day Phase lasts 48 hours and ends in a time frame of three hours. The night phase lasts 3 hours or you have a 3 hour window around the 48 hour window to end the day?
In!!!
Quote from: dayowlron on Fri 27/07/2018 12:58:28
What does this mean? The Day Phase lasts 48 hours and ends in a time frame of three hours. The night phase lasts 3 hours or you have a 3 hour window around the 48 hour window to end the day?
The Day Phase lasts around 48 hours.
The last 3 hours of these 48 hours are the time frame I have to close the round. (Or the last two hours of those 48 and one after, so Day Phase might last between 46 to 49 hours, or one houre before and two after - You get the picture. I will definitvely tell you the exact times at the beginning of each Day Phase.)
If I run late for whatever reason, the Day Phase ends even without my input at an exact time. (You still need to wait for me to write up what happened but you can treat the thread as if the Night Phase had started.)
Then, Night Phase begins, which lasts about 24 hours.
This is just a contingency in case something RL comes up for me like it did for Mandle last Day Phase of the previous game. It's supposed to be a mixture of closing at an exact time (which would unfortunately allow tactics based on last second posts) and closing on the whim of the game master (which could have been unfair in the last round when someone could have changed their lynch-vote even after the Day Phase should have ended).
Awwww, no cool title graphics at all to set the mood?
You'll get all the atmosphere you could ever wish for once the game starts. Promised.
I'll play again! ;-D
Quote from: Sinitrena on Fri 27/07/2018 13:23:14
You'll get all the atmosphere you could ever wish for once the game starts. Promised.
Sweeeeeet!
Sign me up, please! :)
Count me in.
By my count we are up to 6 players so far?
I'll just watch this game this time, have fun :-D
You can count me in... look out Stu! (laugh)
Seven players so far. More players would be better, but I'm sure you don't want to wait forever for the game to start.
I leave sign-up open for another 24 hours. Come on, guys and gals, this is fun. :-*
Current Phase: Still Sign-up
Well, alright. Guess I'll try again.
Sign-up is now closed.
We have the following players:
Stupot
dayowlron
Mandle
Riaise
tzachs
Adeel
josiah1221
VampireWombat
You'll recieve PMs with your roles in the next couple of minutes.
Please do not post in this thread until my next post when the game starts.
Current Phase: Set-up
(https://www.img-load.de/images/2018/07/30/Wolf.png)
The last village they attacked was left in shambles. Doors were ripped from their frames, children from the arms of their parents. First, you just heard rumours, whispered in the dark. They come closer. Day after day, night after night, they come closer. Monsters, werewolves.
Now you know that it weren‘t just rumours. You haven‘t seen it with your own eyes. You are glad of that. If the reports are true...
You know that they are. It started here now, too. Animals were ripped apart last night. Sheeps on the field, a whole herd, the guard dog. The shepeard heard it yowl. And he heard the howling of the wolves.
Now you look into the eyes of your neighbours. You see fear there, panic even. When you meet them on the market place, you flinch. You start to distrust.
Because the rumours change their tone. Now, they do not speak of monsters coming from afar in the night, but from monsters in your midsts. From infections. From demons possessing your friends and neighbours.
Or you? Are you one of them?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Werwolf.png)
Role Setup:
1 Seer
1 Fool
1 Guard
3 Villagers
1 Alpha Wolf
1 Wolf
So that people do not get confused with time zones, I will use BST (British Summer Time), which is, if I'm not mistaken, what the forum uses as its standard time (meaning the one shown when you are not logged-in).
The game starts with a Day Phase of about 48 hours that will end 1. August between 6 PM and 9 PM. If I am running late, the last allowed post would have a time-stamp of exactly 9 PM. Should you accidentally post after this time, please edit your post immediately.
From now on, only players are allowed to post in this thread.
Discuss, play, role-play (not recuired, but certainly allowed) and, most important, have fun.
Current Phase: Day 1
So, it begins again. It never ends well for the livestock, does it? :~(
If it's a choice between me and a few sheep, the sheep stand no chance.
Just be grateful we've moved past having young girls watching the sheep...
6 against 2 this time, we stand a chance. I also think losing a few sheep over losing our lives is the better of the 2 evils.
Let me be the first to break out the wolfsbane mojitos.
Drink if you wish, but I don't trust any drink that I didn't prepare myself. And I would prefer to keep my wits as sharp as possible.
Yeah, never drink and lynch.
We shouldn't waste time and take some action. This threat must be immediately dealt with!
As we have 25% chance of guessing correctly and 75% chance of screwing up, it seems to me that it's in the best interest of the village not to lynch anybody today.
Tomorrow, after one of us dies, we'll have 28.5% chance of guessing correctly, and with the seer's help this should hopefully tip the odds in our favor.
This considered, Adeel's statement seems to me like a subtle play to encourage lynching, i.e benefit the wolves. A villager who did the numbers would probably not make this statement, making me suspect that Adeel is either a wolf or a fool.
So I'm considering disregarding what I just said and voting for Adeel :P
Hello all!!!
Hmmmm I'm just gonna sit in the corner and listen for a bit longer before sharing any thoughts, but I will be sharing them before this first 24 hours is up to allow time for consideration.
This is not a stalling tactic. I just don't want to interfere with the way people talk just yet.
This is just great, so it seems the "rumors" aren't rumors after all. The entire herd in one night! I don't know about ya'll but I could definitely use a mojito to calm my nerves 8-0 VampireWombat and tzachs, no wolfsbane mojitos? hmmmm...
I'm already getting paranoid and I haven't said anything yet ???
I also think we can afford to wait one night. We won't learn anything from lynching the wrong person with zero intel (I guess. Maybe Mandle knows some secret trick). Let's give the seer a chance to learn something..
Nope, no alcohol for me that I don't know 100% who's had access to it. Especially not a drink made from a plant I don't know the origin of. What if I'm slipped a hallucinogenic plant? Everyone might turn into werewolves before my eyes or something. Too many things could go wrong.
In fact, I'm not even going to trust any food that I haven't prepared myself until every last werewolf's head has been placed on a pike.
I'm leaning towards not lynching anyone, too. If we
do lynch someone this phase, it'll most likely end up being the fool, which, while being a victory for him, brings the number of villagers down and ends up being a win for the wolves. So, yeah, giving the seer a bit of time to find something out seems like the best thing to do.
Quote from: VampireWombat on Tue 31/07/2018 13:27:55
In fact, I'm not even going to trust any food that I haven't prepared myself...
So, are you volunteering to be the town cook, VampireWombat? (laugh)
Quote from: josiah1221 on Tue 31/07/2018 05:22:04
VampireWombat and tzachs, no wolfsbane mojitos? hmmmm...
Well, I said, never drink & lynch, but as we're not going to lynch anyone today, I guess I can have a sip, so please pour me some (but not from the bottom, that stuff is lethal).
Quote from: Riaise on Tue 31/07/2018 13:32:02
So, are you volunteering to be the town cook, VampireWombat? (laugh)
No, not really. This town no longer has a high enough level of uncontaminated food for that to work. I will stick with the food I already have and I suggest everyone else be in charge of their own food.
Well I wonder how bad werewolf tacos would taste?
Worse than Taco Bell with at least twice the side effects.
I know that I said I would be commenting from my quiet corner within the first 24 hours of this round, but I actually think I might listen a bit further until just a bit later on...
I still don't want to really say what I'm listening for and give the game away just yet...
Carry on with the conversation please and don't mind me...
Wow, Mandle, that's not unnerving at all... 8-0
Just so that everyone knows, I won't be around tomorrow. I must visit my sister in a nearby town, but I shall return with uncontaminated supplies! Even if everyone is too suspicious to eat them! ;) I'll try and look in tomorrow evening, but it'll probably be the night phase by then. It doesn't look like we'll be lynching anyone, so hopefully I won't miss too much. :)
I said that we should take some action. I didn't say anything about lynching anyone at all! That was tzach's own assumption! (wtf)
I agree we should take some action, but lynching without any intel is not a good idea, however the only "action" townspeople can do is vote to lynch someone, so what kind of action do u have in mind?
Well, I have been watching and waiting to see if a pattern I was expecting to see appears and it's possible that it has:
As this is the second round of this game I would expect players to have become more devious with how they play and I would expect the wolf team to perhaps try something like one or both of them calling the other out as suspicious in the first Day Phase.
This acts as a kind of insurance policy in the event that one of them is caught the other can say "But look! In round-freakin'-one I called that guy out! Why would I do that if I was on their team?!"
And this might seem a reasonable argument until you consider that round one is the
perfect time to make this play if the wolves are going to do so:
Round one has the least real risk of being taken seriously by the Good players as everything is speculation at this point and there is no chance that one of the accusers might be the Seer and have actual knowledge of the accused's role (like Stupot at the end of the last game).
So, in the event that this kind of WW (werewolf) strategy took place this phase, then the players that have called out another so far as suspicious are:
tzachs called out Adeel as being either a WW or the Fool for his possible hardcore lynching attitude.
Josiah subtely placed potential suspicion on VampireWombat and tzachs for not wanting to drink their mojitos.
Now, this is the first phase, so everything is still speculation like I mentioned before.
I actually agree that we should probably not lynch during the first day phase.
But, in case the WWs are making such a move then this information should be considered later on as part of the larger pattern of how everyone acted throughout the game.
Like, just in case it comes down to a vote between two people like it did last game, this kind of stuff should be considered...
On a different note:
Quote from: dayowlron on Tue 31/07/2018 22:25:37
what kind of action do u have in mind?
I would also be very interested in the answer to that question.
Oh, one other thing I forgot to say:
If I am killed during this first night phase, which I suspect I probably will be as I might be viewed as an experienced player by the wolves and, therefore, the best one to shut up quickly...
Anyway, if I am killed by the wolves tonight could the Seer please get in touch with me via PM as I would like to be a part of his/her underground group behind the scenes and from beyond the grave even if I can't speak in the thread anymore.
(Of course, one of the wolves could pretend to be the Seer and PM me but I don't really see what good that would do them as I don't know anything yet and won't even have a lynch vote anymore that could be swayed for their benefit. It would kind of be a waste of time for them, plus they wouldn't know if the real Seer had PM'd me or not which would expose them rather quickly if he or she had done so and soon started being proved right about other players' roles.)
Just saying this now in case I don't have a need to post anything further before Night Phase begins.
Frankly, Mandle is trying too hard to come across as a good guy. I'm becoming suspicious of him.
Quote from: Mandle on Wed 01/08/2018 05:43:30
Quote from: dayowlron on Tue 31/07/2018 22:25:37
what kind of action do u have in mind?
I would also be very interested in the answer to that question.
Hold a town meeting, establish some sort of communication, and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
Quote from: Mandle on Wed 01/08/2018 05:43:30
I would expect players to have become more devious with how they play and I would expect the wolf team to perhaps try something like one or both of them calling the other out as suspicious in the first Day Phase.
This acts as a kind of insurance policy in the event that one of them is caught the other can say "But look! In round-freakin'-one I called that guy out! Why would I do that if I was on their team?!"
because of this phrase I am thinking he is not a werewolf otherwise he might have used that strategy on us instead of letting us know. HOWEVER that could be his plan to throw us off the track also.
Quote from: Adeel on Wed 01/08/2018 11:19:17
Frankly, Mandle is trying too hard to come across as a good guy. I'm becoming suspicious of him.
Okay, here's an interesting way to pass the time:
I challenge everyone to post who their top suspect of being a wolf is during each Day Phase.
It's not an official lynch vote, so don't bold it.
Doing a role-call* is still a bit too early to be useful, but the top-suspect call-out strategy can sometimes tip people's hands over time.
MOST IMPORTANTLY:
DO NOT post a reason for your choice, only a name!
Mine is:
Stupot.
* A role-call is a strategy often used a bit later in the game where everyone is challenged to reveal their role. Obviously there will be a doubling-up on some claimed roles and these are where the town can concentrate their investigations. It's still too early for that though as the Seer is still too valuable. This is best done when there is only one werewolf left to find.
Mandle and Adeel are my two equal suspects currently.
Riaise and VampireWombat
Pinky and the Brain.
But fine. Adeel and tzachs.
All day, you wandered aimlessly through the streets. On the market place, you listened to whispers, you spread rumours yourself. Maybe someone will slip up, maybe someone will tell you...
No, it doesn‘t feel right. You stop the thoughts before they fully form. The surreptitious look between your neighbours? That was just a look. The conspiratoral whisper? Just their own panic manifesting in hushed voices and short breath.
And if you whispered yourself to others, who is to say that it means anything?
When you meet the others in the town hall in the afternoon, they seem just as normal as always. They are just your neighbours and friends. You have known them for years, and they have known you just as long. How could it be that one of them is not who he or she pretends to be?
No, you can‘t bring yourself to accuse them. This is an outside threat, maybe even just a random passer-by.
In the light of the day, away from darkness and blood, rumours are just rumours.
Still, the fear follows you into your bed. It brushes past you in a shudder, it wafts through your curtains like a physical being.
Who do you fear? The werwolves at night? Or the next morning when the town will see your work?
Either way, it takes a while before you finally close your eyes, not sure if you will ever open them again.
(https://www.img-load.de/images/2018/08/01/Bremen.png)
Lynch votes: none
Nothing happens. At the end of the day, you are all still alive.
Current Role Setup:
1 Seer
1 Fool
1 Guard
3 Villagers
1 Alpha Wolf
1 Wolf
Players:
Stupot: alive
dayowlron: alive
Mandle: alive
Riaise: alive
tzachs: alive
Adeel: alive
josiah1221: alive
VampireWombat: alive
Day Phase is over. Would all people with night abilities please pm me their activities?
The Night Phase will last 24 hours or less, if I recieve all your PMs before and have time to close it earlier. Please remember that the first PM you send me is the one I will use.
No more posting in this thread until the next Day Phase, please.
Current Phase: Night 1
When you awake in the morning and consciousness and memory slowly return to you, you sigh with relief. It should be obvious: you are alive. Still, you run your hands over your limbs, checking for wounds that aren't there.
You almost start to believe that your town is safe. You almost laugh it off when others suggest to look around town just to make sure everyone else is safe too. Yes, you want to know too. Yes, maybe you did suggest it as well in hushed tones.
So you start your walk through the village, shoulder on shoulder with your neighbours. Furtively, you look to your left, then to your right. Is someone missing? You look into tired eyes of people who slept just as bad as you, you count the people. Someone isn't here.Spoiler
VampireWombat
But the thought leaves you in a stifled cry when you reach his home.
It is a disturbing sight. The door is ripped from its hinges, a window is shattered. The body hangs over the ledge, half outside, half in. No, that is not correct. As soon as you enter the house, you realize that there is nothing left to lie on the inside, not really.
You turn away. You study the room he was killed in.Spoiler
A rifle stands next to the destroyed door, ready to be taken out into town. A map, hand-drawn, crude, lies, half rolled-up on a table between the last remnants of an evening meal and several bottles of spirit, some empty, more still filled with a clear liquid.
Spoiler
the town's guard and protector?
Can you still trust any of them?(https://www.img-load.de/images/2018/08/02/Elias.png)
The Wolves killed their first victim:
Spoiler
VampireWombat, who was
Spoiler
the guard and the intended target.
Spoiler
1 Seer
1 Fool
0 Guards
3 Villagers
1 Alpha Wolf
1 Wolf
Spoiler
Stupot: alive
dayowlron: alive
Mandle: alive
Riaise: alive
tzachs: alive
Adeel: alive
josiah1221: alive
VampireWombat: killed by Werewolves in Night 1. Role: Guard
The deceased player is no longer allowed to post in this thread but may communicate with other players through other means.
With that, the second day starts, which will again last about 2 real life days, ending on 4. August between 5 PM and 8 PM BST.
You know the drill: have fun suspecting, accusing and maybe even lynching your fellow AGSers.
Current Phase: Day 2
A minute of silence for our beloved guard :~(
It's obvious that werewolves don't like vampires. Hopefully VampireWombat managed to put up a fight. I imagine that it looked a little bit like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI1Yi2AUVAc
Poor VampireWombat. :( We should have a toast of wolfsbane mojitos in his honour. Let's all raise a glass to VampireWombat!
I'm sticking to my "don't drink & lynch" and we got to lynch somebody today, right?
Also VampireWombat himself, if he was still with us, wouldn't have wanted us to drink and lose our wits in these dire times, so I'm respecting his wishes.
It's very unfortunate that we lost someone like VampireWombat who was so valuable to our whole town. May he rest in peace. :(
To ensure that he didn't die in vain, we must absolutely take some action now. And perhaps even take concrete action i.e. lynching, if necessary. Indecision is worse than taking a wrong decision, imho.
This is terrible news, who's going to protect us now? :~( God rest his soul! I'll join in a toast, maybe if he had drank a wolfsbane mojito the wolves wouldn't have attacked.
What should we do? The odds are still against us for lynching, but we can't just let them pick us off one by one.
I do agree with Adeel that no action is worse than a wrong action. It would be nice to get some intel from the seer, especially if the seer found a werewolf. just one lynching of a werewolf would allow the town to survive until the last inhabitants.
Ouch. RIP VW my man. It sucks that we haven't got a guard now. And I'm still none the wiser as to who we should lynch.
Oh, I'm still alive?! Unexpected.
But, that's quite bad news about VampireWombat: The Guard. For him, and for us.
I was really hoping to be able to confidently say something like this today:
"If the Seer scanned a werewolf last night then they should probably just come out and tell us. That way we can lynch that person today and, if they were, in fact, a werewolf then the Guard can protect the Seer tonight. This will give the Seer at least two more shots at finding another wolf, or finding a trustworthy person which is almost as good. In either case we would be down one wolf and the town's chance of winning would have increased greatly."
But now the seer will only get one more scan if they come forward, and will have to tell all us the intel via PM from beyond the grave.
I think it could maybe still be worth it for the Seer to just come forward if they scanned a wolf. The Seer would then almost certainly die during the next night phase but would still get that last scan in. Only having one wolf left guarentees many more days of safety for the town to try for a successful lynch on their own via basic scum-hunting tactics.
I'm a bit conflicted though. Perhaps numbers aren't getting desperate enough just yet for the Seer to sacrifice themself and they can still tell us their gathered intel via PM if killed at any point.
Either choice could go either way I feel: good eventual outcome or bad eventual outcome, so maybe we leave it just up to the Seer themself to make the choice?
Another choice the Seer has is to try to subtley turn voting in the direction of a wolf, or away from an innocent person, depending on which they scanned last night. This would have to be done very carefully of course or would stick out like a sore thumb and the Seer would be basically outing themself anyway.
What do others think the Seer should do?
ALSO: Usually at this point I would be trying to scum-hunt by looking for people who were quick to call for a lynch to be started, but reluctant to point the first finger and name the first name, except that you guys are all doing that... hehehe. Newer players are impossible to scum-hunt... (laugh)
So, let's discuss what everyone thinks the Seer should do if they spotted a wolf last night for now maybe?
Oh, I just realized I just said all that and forgot to add my own opinion:
I think the Seer should wait at least one more Night Phase before coming out (if they found a wolf by that point).
If the Guard were still alive I would say to just come out right now.
I feel that 2 more scans are twice as good as just 1 more scan.
Sorry for multiple posts:
Also, if the Seer scanned a wolf this time and scans an innocent player next time then they can use the innocent player as a mouthpiece to get the information out.
Wolf shennanigans at this point are a danger to look out for of course. ;)
I had thought about what you just said but a werewolf could pretend to be a seer and specify a townsperson as being a werewolf. Then when the real seer saw that he would be able to guess who is a werewolf, but if he suggested the werewolf to be lynched it would appear like the second wolf trying to get the seer lynched so no matter what it is hard to trust anything anyone says on here. its just a shot in the dark with anyone that gets lynched. (make sense?)
dayowlron, this is true, especially in games with more people and more wolves it's actually a common strategy.
But would the wolves really risk losing half their team and getting down to the wire of only one left this early in the game?
They might but I'm pretty sure that would end up resulting in a town win even if they managed to get the Seer lynched.
Let's see though...
I actually hope they do give it a try!
This game is usually the most fun when we have two players claiming to be the same role! (laugh)
Quote from: Mandle on Fri 03/08/2018 01:25:15
Oh, I'm still alive?! Unexpected.
And suspicious.
Quote from: Mandle on Fri 03/08/2018 01:25:15
What do others think the Seer should do?
Well, if she/he scanned a wolf, then maybe she/he should come out, but if no wolf was scanned, definitely should stay hidden.
Quote from: Mandle on Fri 03/08/2018 01:25:15
ALSO: Usually at this point I would be trying to scum-hunt by looking for people who were quick to call for a lynch to be started, but reluctant to point the first finger and name the first name, except that you guys are all doing that... hehehe. Newer players are impossible to scum-hunt... (laugh)
I also find this statement suspicious, like you're trying to play mind tricks on us. hmmmm, what game are you playing at, mister?
Quote from: Mandle on Fri 03/08/2018 01:25:15
This game is usually the most fun when we have two players claiming to be the same role! (laugh)
It's probably time to come forward then. I'm the bodyguard!
Quote from: tzachs on Fri 03/08/2018 04:15:19
Quote from: Mandle on Fri 03/08/2018 01:25:15
ALSO: Usually at this point I would be trying to scum-hunt by looking for people who were quick to call for a lynch to be started, but reluctant to point the first finger and name the first name, except that you guys are all doing that... hehehe. Newer players are impossible to scum-hunt... (laugh)
I also find this statement suspicious, like you're trying to play mind tricks on us. hmmmm, what game are you playing at, mister?
Actually I would say the exact same kind of thing whether I'm a Good player really trying to help out, or a werewolf pretending to be a Good player helping out.
If I were a werewolf I wouldn't try to give false pieces of playing advice because they would be spotted as false and I would be busted.
The real strategy in the game isn't so much trying to catch people out by what they
say as it is to catch them out by what they
do. You'll notice that my comment was about player behavior.
Werewolves want a non-wolf to get lynched every turn and therefore are usually pro-lynching but they don't often want to be the first to start a voting trend. This is because, later on, the town might look back and say "Hey, PlayerX started the vote on 3 players who all turned out not to be werewolves!"
That being said, calling the fact that I wasn't killed "suspicious" is the right way to look at how to figure out patterns of most likely suspects.
So, why wasn't I killed? I don't know. Maybe the wolves thought that would make me look more suspicious and I would get lynched anyway, saving them the trouble? Or maybe they decided I'm probably not the Seer. Or maybe they killed someone who was suspicious of one of them? I'm actually quite curious myself about that but I guess we'll have to wait until the end of the game to find out.
Anyway, over the weekend I have a summer sleepover event at my school with some students and staff so I'm going to be a bit inactive. I will still check in from time to time tomorrow but can't much on Sunday but that will be the Night Phase anyway and I won't have to.
I'm just going to put in my initial lynch vote here but it may well change before the deadline:
AdeelI don't have an
overwhelming suspicion of Adeel. It's just that he was the first to call for "action" which I also assumed meant "a lynch". He also seemed, IMO, to backpeddle a bit when asked what else he meant if he didn't mean lynching.
He said "Hold a town meeting, establish some sort of communication, and etcetera, etcetera, etcetera."
Well, by the gameplay forums structure aren't we already having a meeting automatically? Next: What sort of communication can possibly be established that disallows wolves into it?(except later on with Seer intell) and etc.etc.etc.
It just seemed a bit made-up-on-the-spot in reply to being questioned rather than something he actually had in mind at the time he called for action. So I believe he was actually calling for a lynch on Day Phase One but didn't want to commit to it when pressed, like, start a vote or anything.
He said pretty much the same thing on Day Phase Two, again with no commitment.
Like I said, none of this proves guilt but I'm just going to vote for him now and see how everyone reacts to that.
Not knowing what to do next I will just continue your thought and vote Adeel to be lynched to see what conversation comes up.
With those long speeches, you might try to fool others that you're a good guy, but not me. I still maintain that you're trying way too hard to come across as a good guy.
I was the first to raise my suspicion against you, and you responded by rallying people to vote to lynch me.
I'm not going hesitate any further. My vote is to lynch Mandle.
Hmmm, hard decision here, as both of my main suspects are on the line.
I do feel that Adeel "slips" were a little too obvious, making me suspect him as more a fool then a wolf. Not sure, though, I would possibly vote for him if there wasn't a better suspect, but there is.
My vote is for Mandle.
Because I suspect he's both a werewolf and an evil wizard with all of those mind tricks he's playing on us. I mean, saying that the wolves wouldn't want to be the first ones voting and then actually doing the first vote is a classic reverse psychology trick which only an evil wizard can muster.
This is so confusing! I must admit, I was also thinking the same as tzachs about Adeel, that he may be the fool rather than a wolf. Although, I was also pretty convinced that VampireWombat was the fool, so my intuition is clearly not that great! (laugh)
I'm not going to vote just yet, I'd like to see what Mandle has to say for himself before I decide.
I'm not really sure what to think of Mandle at this point. Either trying too hard or trying to move the game along and make it more fun or interesting, who knows. Whatever the case, it doesn't make it any clearer to me who he is. Could be the seer trying to tell us who the wolf is without revealing himself. Or could be a wolf trying to play good. Or a villager. Or a fool! I don't want to risk lynching the possible seer or a villager. So I'm gonna go with my original gut instinct. I still feel like VampireWombat was killed for a reason and he was suspicious of 2 people, Adeel and Tzachs. And since we can only reach a majority vote with Mandle and Adeel, for now my vote leans towards Adeel but that may change depending on what happens between now and tomorrow afternoon.
Quote from: Riaise on Fri 03/08/2018 15:43:37
I'm not going to vote just yet, I'd like to see what Mandle has to say for himself before I decide.
I don't really have anything to say in my defence. Whatever I say will just be looked on as doublespeak in the minds of those who think I'm already doing that. I'll admit that in an experienced game I wouldn't be talking so much about little points of strategy because long posts are viewed as suspicious.
What I mainly want to say before it's potentially too late is:
If I'm lynched:
If it then turns out (sooner of later) that Adeel is a wolf then tzachs is probably not a wolf as he voted for me right after Adeel and a wolf partner probably wouldn't do that.
A wolf would be more likely to hang back until a bit later.
I would suspect the last or second-last player who voted for me as they were likely to be a wolf hanging back until the bandwagon against me was well underway and looking like a sure thing before jumping on it.
Okay, gotta finish packing for the weekend sleepover and then head off. Hopefully I can get back on at least one more time before Day Phase ends but not sure.
Best of luck all!
I'm also torn. But one or two things Mandle has said haven't quite made sense to me if he's Town. Like his implying a few posts ago that the seer might be better off outing himself early even though we have no guard. I admit he knows the strategies and I don't but that could be him trying to use his position as resident expert to trick us into doing things in his favour. Also saying anyone who leaves it late to vote for him is a wolf was a clever move because I'm about to vote for Mandle so if you believe him then I must be a wolf. I'm not.
I dont know about Mandle for sure but a while back he said he was waiting for someone to say something and when they didnt use a good strategy for a wolf then he gave away what would be a good strategy for a wolf, I would have thought that he would have used the strategy rather than presenting it. For that reason I do think that Mandle is Town, however I could be totally wrong and he could have us fooled. I am almost sure from what I see that tzachs or Adeel is a wolf.
OK, I'm still not sure but I need to make a move one way or another. I feel like Adeel is slightly more suspicious than Mandle, even though that could be because he's a fool rather than a wolf. I don't feel like Mandle is deliberately trying to be deceiving, although I could be very wrong about that. So, with trepidation, I'm going for Adeel.
I'm gonna stick with my gut and vote Adeel. Hopefully this doesn't come back to bite me in the @SS, literally! I just have a feeling that Mandle is the fool, seems to be trying too hard and is appearing too obvious.
Welp, I urge the good folks of the town to reconsider their decision before it is too late! Otherwise, you all are definitely going to regret lynching me, at least the good ones will definitely do.
You are among the bearers of the body. It feels rushed, a funeral at the same day, just hours after your friend was killed, but you know it is necessary. Later, you realize that this was the last moment before all this was over, that you looked at your neighbours as companions, as friends.
You lay the body to rest, you put a silver chain around its neck. You heard that the victims of werewolves might return, that silver might stop them. It can't hurt, can it?
Before the last shovel of earth has filled the grave, you are at your neighbour's throat. There is screaming, a lot of screaming. Now, the light of day can't stop the rumours anymore.
There are even more accusations. Thinking about it, later, years later, you know that most of them, maybe even all, were unfounded, without any real proof.
But in the heat of the moment, everything gets dragged up, every little injustice, every little quarrel, every presumed slight.
Soon, two camps built, screaming at each other. Two people are accused. Why those two? What evidence do you have to fight for one or the other? They are minor things, but you still support them with every breath and every last drop of blood in your body.
In the end, you decide. Everyone decides. Everyone sides with one group or the other. And one wins. When it becomes clear who the majority supports, the other group steps back.
Together, you and your neighbours dragSpoiler
Adeel
You stand next to the body, relieved, hopeful, disgusted when you realize what you have done.
And then you understand that you have to make sure. You rush to his house, followed by the others. The door is locked but you break it open. You look around, look for anything to tell you more aboutSpoiler
Adeel.
Spoiler
some books and candles, the remnants of a cake and a birthday card, congratulating Adeel to his 1014th birthday (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=56325.0). (Happy belated birthday, Adeel.)
With horror (or glee?) you realize that you just lynchedSpoiler
an innocent Villager.
There are isolated voices, both in your head and coming from the other townsfolk, urging you to find the real werewolf, to kill him here and now.
You shudder and turn away. You cannot do it. You leave, return to your home and lock the door. It has to go away somehow, this nightmare has to end. Maybe, when you awake in the morning, if you awake, all this is behind you.(https://www.img-load.de/images/2018/08/04/Streit.png)
Votes:Stupot: Mandle
dayowlron: Adeel
Mandle: Adeel
Riaise: Adeel
tzachs: Mandle
Adeel: Mandle
josiah1221: Adeel
The town has decided to lynch
Spoiler
Adeel, who was
Spoiler
a common Villager.
Spoiler
1 Seer
1 Fool
0 Guards
2 Villagers
1 Alpha Wolf
1 Wolf
Spoiler
Stupot: alive
dayowlron: alive
Mandle: alive
Riaise: alive
tzachs: alive
Adeel: lynched on Day 2. Role: Villager
josiah1221: alive
VampireWombat: killed by Werewolves in Night 1. Role: Guard
With that, the day ends and Night Phase starts again, lasting about 24 hours. Posting is closed in this thread until the next Day Phase.
The night dwellers may PM me their activities now, if you haven't already. Remember that you are allowed to send them earlier if you wish to.
Current Phase: Night 2
The smell of burning flesh, of cooking soup, whiffs through your window and wakes you. You realize with horror that you must have left it unlocked. When? When you fell asleep exhausted from a lynching, or later when you returned from some nightly activities? You know, of course, but you do not talk about it, ever.
Tentatively, you close the window and leave the house. Instinct or something more sinister tells you to follow the smell of food being prepared. Many others do too.
You meet them at the entrance of another house that was invaded. You do not even look around before you reach the house. You do not want to know who is on your side and who is missing. Maybe, you already know.
And when you reach the house, you know for sure. There was a fight, but it did not last long. At firstSpoiler
Stupot
The bones are left, some vegetables. Two dishes sit on the floor next to the cauldron. With an absurd, horrific fascination you think that the wolves do seem to like a civilized meal.
Other than the cauldron now holdingSpoiler
Stupot stew
Spoiler
nothing out of the ordinary.
Spoiler
another innocent villager.
Accusations start before the fire has burned to ashes.(I'm sorry, the wolves asked specifically for Stupot stew, I only delivered what was on the menu.)(https://www.img-load.de/images/2018/08/05/Veit.png)
The Wolves ate
Spoiler
Stupot, who was
Spoiler
a normal Villager.
Spoiler
1 Seer
1 Fool
0 Guards
1 Villager
1 Alpha Wolf
1 Wolf
Spoiler
Stupot: cooked into a stew by Werewolves in Night 2. Role: Villager
dayowlron: alive
Mandle: alive
Riaise: alive
tzachs: alive
Adeel: lynched on Day 2. Role: Villager
josiah1221: alive
VampireWombat: killed by Werewolves in Night 1. Role: Guard
Lynching the wrong person in this Day Phase will lead to a win for the Wolves, as will not lynching at all (assuming the Wolves kill someone in the next Night Phase, but I guess this is a foregone conclusion).
You have two days to decide who to kill to save the town, with the Day Phase ending on 7. August between 6 PM and 9 PM BST.
Current Phase: Day 3
Firstly, sorry Adeel! I really do regret voting for you now. :(
Secondly, poor Stupot, what a way to go. (wrong)
OK, so what now? Given that he was one of the main candidates last time, he caused the lynching of an innocent villager and that Stupot was eaten after voting for him, surely our main suspect is Mandle? Can anyone think of any reason not to vote for him? ???
Sorry to see 2 villagers go, but now we have 3 towns and 2 wolves so in order for the town to win we have to lynch a wolf each day and be accurate about it. if we dont lynch a wolf each of the next 2 nights we lose. Not knowing anything I will enter an initial vote to lynch josiah1221, however I may change that vote.
Hmmmm, I was thinking Stupot was the Seer.
Oh well, he still made for a lovely stew!
Yup, sorry all, but I'm a wolf. I really didn't want to be but the luck of the draw and all that.
So, why am I telling you all this? Has all the killing driven me mad?!
No. You see, the wolves have basically already won:
WE CALL FOR THE FOOL TO COME FORWARD BY VOTING FOR THEMSELF!
Then the wolves will both vote for the Fool to be lynched and the wolves and the Fool win the game together!
In the case that we see multiple claims for the Fool role:
The wolves will pick the one we think is most likely to be the Fool.
In the case where we choose the wrong target:
Either that player will change their vote before the end of the turn or they will lose the game for the Good players.
If the wolves see the vote change in time we will also switch our votes.
If, as is likely, we don't do so in time we promise not to kill anyone during the next night phase. We have talked about this and have decided to stick by our promise as it's the more interesting way to win the game.
On the next Day Phase we will repeat the process of voting for a different Fool-claiming player.
We will continue doing this until we find the correct Fool.
And, even if the Fool doesn't believe our promise not to do a night kill this is still their best chance to get lynched today and win the game.
We're pretty sure we know who the Fool is anyway and so if they just vote for themself we can get this game over with.
Oh, and in case the Fool is worried that I'm not a wolf and that I'm trying to trick them into revealing themself to narrow down the list of suspect wolves:
It doesn't matter in the slightest if you believe me or not.
Even if I'm not a wolf (but I am) the wolves now know about this strategy and would be silly not to vote to lynch someone who votes for themself.
The Good players may attempt to fool the Fool with a promise that, if the Fool sides with them, they will lynch the Fool during the next Day Phase and help them get their win but...
They can't. If they don't lynch a wolf two days in a row they have lost the game. They have no time for Fool-lynching.
The only side that can help the Fool gain their own win is the big, hungry, hairy side ;)
Damn. I wanted to do this myself but Mandle took out all the fun from it. I'm the fool, lynch me please, thanks.
Oh I forgot. My vote is: tzachs.
I vote for tzachs
Quote from: tzachs on Mon 06/08/2018 01:49:15
Damn. I wanted to do this myself but Mandle took out all the fun from it. I'm the fool, lynch me please, thanks.
Hahaha sorry, mate. I guess I also wasted a lot of time rambling on about how the plan works when you already had it dialed in (laugh).
No worries, I was thinking of how to phrase my pitch to the wolf that it's ok to come out now, trying to figure out if there's a chance they would not believe me, so you definitely helped me out there.
Yeah, in this case the wolves pretty much know they are safe as long as the Fool doesn't vote for one of them.
There's only really two cases where the Fool would do so:
(1) The player doesn't understand the Fool role and thinks they are one of the good-guys.
(2) And I've actually seen this happen: The Fool player doesn't feel like this is an "honorable" way to get their win and so throws it away and sides with the Good players because they are "good" and that's better than if "evil" wins. Yeah, pretty dumb and disappointing way to play for both sides. Everyone in the game, winners and losers, ended up a bit miffed at that player.
I realize this is pointless since both wolves and the fool would vote for the fool leaving only me and the town to vote differently but I am switching my vote to Mandle
Well, that's that, then. Although one non-wolf might as well get a win out of this so I'll vote tzachs.
Well if you are not a wolf you don't win by voting for the fool, but I see your point. pretty much game over. Riaise, I guess if you are not a wolf, tzachs is a fool, and i am a villager then you are the seer and josiah is the other wolf.
Hmmm, just giving up? I guess I might as well vote tzachs just in case someone changes their mind...
As it seems this round is pretty much over I'd just like to say a few things:
Firstly, I really meant it when I said I'd hoped I wouldn't be a wolf in this round. I actually said "Shit!" out loud when I saw the PM that told me I was a wolf. I was actually looking forward to scum-hunting with this group of players. That would have been a much funner game for me. But the luck of the draw and all that.
That being said, all of the advice I gave for playing the game during this round was 100% accurate except for one stunt I pulled which would have tipped off experienced players that I was on the scum side:
I asked for everyone to state their most suspicious player but added the "IMPORTANT RULE" that noone should state their reason for this choice.
And a lot of people did so without anyone asking why reasons should not be stated.
Of course reasons should always be stated when pointing fingers. My plan was to get people pointing fingers early on and before anyone really knew anything to instill some mistrust between the Good players for having a finger pointed at them for no reason by someone else. I mean, why would anyone even do that, right? They must know something already and therefore are a bit suspicious...
I'm guessing people followed my ridiculous rule of "no reasons" because they are new to the game and knew that I am not and thought there might actually be some deep gameplay reason why this rule existed. This is what I was counting on and I'll admit I felt pretty dirty when it worked.
I had honestly been hoping someone would call me out on the "no reason" rule. If this game continues in these forums or if you ever play it in any form again: The player asking for people to put forward an opinion but without being able to say why is almost 100% certainly scum. Why would a town player ever want to restrict extra, potentially valuable, information?
And this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty. I tried to do it in a way that could open me up to difficult questions later on like "So, Mandle, that thing about posting a suspect each day without reasons. Where did that go?" when I didn't even try to continue it on the second day phase and I appeared to have completely forgotten about it.
Of course, the rest of my advice was selective: I didn't mention any strategies that would bust the WW team immediately. I didn't really want to win this round for the WWs as I thought that would probably just make all players so far frustrated with the game and think "What's the point?! The werewolves always win!" but at the same time this game is only fun if everyone is trying their hardest to gain their own win. Who would want to win against someone who was slacking off their skill on purpose?
So, yeah, my advice was selective, but also true: The wolves do often create a drama between them in Day Phase #1 because it is safe to do so, probably noone is going to get lynched, and it creates an example they can fall back on later to say "But look what I did there!"...
Other advice I mentioned like "Look more at what people do than what they say" are also true... Anyone can say anything until challenged to actually commit an action that proves they are really behind what they said... And we see this all the time with politicians in RL... So, think of the wolves as politicians trying to cover their asses at all costs and you will go a long way to spotting their mistakes and hidden agendas.
This plays out more in longer games with 10+ players and where the town has more Day Phases to talk. Well, players in here had quite of a bit of a chance to talk but didn't really know what to say or ask. This is probably due to inexperience and/or not a huge personal interest invested in a forum game they joined to help out with player numbers and/or just to see how it goes.
I really hope this game can gain some traction as it is honestly really fun as long as people don't get butthurt over being fooled, having someone on their team let them down by giving something away unintentionally, or just plain bad luck.
The whole idea is to have a good laugh when you either fool everyone and/or get fooled.
Oh, and to continue that last sentence because we are still under the "no edits" rule:
EDIT: The whole idea is to have a good laugh when you either fool everyone and/or get fooled, or see through all, or most of, the fooling and win a town victory!
I know that the wolves have a big advantage in that from the start of the game they know who is town and who is scum. I do know there should be at least 2 wolves just because if the seer finds the wolf there would be no reason for him to keep it secret that he is the seer, but with 2 wolves having less than 8 town gives the wolves a much better chance of winning from an odds perspective. This is because the town needs some towns people to be able to be lynched because each turn there is no lynching the wolves get 1 turn closer to winning because they will always kill during the night.
I had thought about in this last round saying that I was the fool and voting for myself so the wolves would be confused enough they wouldn't know who was telling the truth and possibly not voting for the correct fool but then I would have been lynched and it would have been game over anyways. The only difference would have been the fool wouldnt get a win.
Quote from: Mandle on Tue 07/08/2018 08:32:52
I had honestly been hoping someone would call me out on the "no reason" rule.
If I'd been around that day then I would have done. I actually thought it was weird thing to ask everyone to do when I read through the posts later, but it was the night phase by then so I couldn't say anything and I'd forgotten about it by the next day. It still didn't ring any alarm bells, though, so I probably would have bought whatever excuse you came up with, anyway! (roll)
I'll add more thoughts once the game is officially over. ;)
Yeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
Or that no non-town neutral role like the Fool should be in games with 8 or less players.
I regretted including the Fool in my initial game and mentioned so but I actually don't regret that this round was won with the Fool's cooperation: This is a potential end-game function of the Fool role that is not obvious from just reading the role description and can only really be learned through playing exactly the game that has just unfolded...
But, yeah, 8 players or less should probably be balanced with 2 wolves, 1 Seer, 1 Bodyguard, and the rest Villagers, with no neutral roles.
Suddenly, a scream pierces the, well, not silence. It was pretty loud in the room before, but this shriek certainly pierces something.
All eyes, including your own, turn toSpoiler
tzachs
He screams into your face. First, it is inarticulate, primal, but when his breathing becomes more ragged from the exhaustion, he actually starts to form words.
<Ate them... Everyone... Devoured them... Their flesh, their blood...>
You think to yourself that he must have gone mad from what he has done.
Nah, who are you trying to fool? Yourself? You know perfectly well that if thisSpoiler
fool
The town jumps on the self-accusation. They believe it. Who wouldn't go mad from prowling around at night, ripping apart innocent people, lighting a fire to cook them?
And you jump on the opportunity as well. Why shouldn't you?
You help your fodder to drag the poor man outside to the makeshift gallows on the market place.
When the neck snaps, you can't hold it anymore. You start to laugh, just as loud, just as mad asSpoiler
tzachs.
One by one, your former friends realize what you are and what you, what they, have done. They look on, helpless, as you change in front of their very eyes, now secure in your position, how your claws sink into the flesh ofSpoiler
dayowlron
You do not rip him apart just now. You don't need to, you have time. Your fodder can wait. You throw him into the tavern's cellar, to be enjoyed later.
Spoiler
Riaise
Spoiler
fires a spell in your direction and
Spoiler
curses you.
<Never shall you walk the face of earth again by day. Never shall you look upon the sun again. Never shall you feel its heat without its fire. Never shall...>
TheSpoiler
seer
Spoiler
sun-fearing vampires.
(https://www.img-load.de/images/2018/08/07/Essen.png)
Votes:dayowlron: josiah1221 Mandle
Mandle: tzachs
Riaise: tzachs
tzachs: tzachs
josiah1221: tzachs
The town decided to lynch
Spoiler
tzachs, who was
Spoiler
the fool, which means
Spoiler
a win for the wolves.
I'm sure nobody is surprised by this outcome by now.
Role reveal:
Spoiler
Stupot: Villager
dayowlron: Villager
Mandle: Wolf
Riaise: Seer
tzachs: Fool
Adeel: Villager
josiah1221: Alpha Wolf
VampireWombat: Guard
With that, the second AGS Werewolf Game is over.
The thread is open to discussion for everyone. Feedback of all kind welcome!
Well, that was... interesting.
That'll teach me never to guard a werewolf ever again.
I hope you all enjoyed the second AGS Werwolf Game
There were a couple of rule things that came up. I only ever answered the person asking, because it wasn't relevant to anyone else:
1. Mandle mentioned that it might not be a good idea to close the night phase too early because it would give people a hint as to who has which role. He is correct, of course and I didn't plan to close it too close to recieving all PMs. It wasn't really an issue.
2. Mandle asked me if it would be okay for a normal wolf to give the eating order to the game master in case the alpha has no time. My answer was no, simply because the other roles also don't have a back-up. It would be unfair. Luckily, this also wasn't an issue, because josiah had already messaged me the decision when Mandle asked.
3. This one you already know the answer: tzachs asked me if he is allowed to vote himself for a lynching. Yes, everyone is allowed to vote for him-/herself. No idea if this would ever be a good tactic for anyone but the fool, but it's certainly allowed.
4. Stupot asked if killed players are allowed to keep comunicating with other players as long as it is not in the thread. Because thes don't recieve information they didn't have before, it is allowed.
The last day phase was a bit underwhelming, I must say. I mean, I knew how it would go as soon as tzachs send me his question. I even considered closing the Day Phase earlier, simply because there was no realistic way it could go differntly, but as long as there was even the slightes theoretical chance I didn't feel it would be fair.
But maybe an additional rule might be possible: Maybe we could allow players to
lock their vote, basically telling the game master (in private or in the thread) that they won't change their vote. If they lock their vote, they aren't allowed to change it anymore. When all players have locked their vote, the round could end earlier. Just a thought.
QuoteAnd this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty.
From an outside perspective, I don't entirely believe you here. What you actually did, intentional or not, was pretending to be neutral. You acted as if you stood outside the game and you used your experince for it. It's a valid tactic, but a bit more underhanded then you make it out to be, at least if it was intentuel.
The town was a bit unlucky in this game. They lost the guard in the very beginning. The seer scanned Stupot in the first round, even though Riaise was suspcious of Mandle (she told me) and lost him in the second night - and then it was already too late.
I agree that it is probably better to leave the role of fool out if we don't get more players.
QuoteYeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
That would change very little, I think. It would just add another Day Phase where people discuss without evidence, just like in Day 1.
All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
first off I did enjoy it but I still think with so few players the wolves have way too much of an advantage.
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
QuoteYeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
That would change very little, I think. It would just add another Day Phase where people discuss without evidence, just like in Day 1.
That would give the seer a day to hopefully find a wolf without any other threat of dying. The town in both games chose not to lynch anyone the first day to give the seer a chance to gather some intel. It would also make the Guards role useless in the first night unless the Guard can choose to protect someone from lynching.
If in this game the seer could have located a wolf on the first night it would have been productive to basically blow his cover because that would have taken the wolves down to 1 wolf and it would have given a few days for the town to find the last remaining wolf, even if the guard was gone. I am thinking a new rule about if the town succeeds in lynching a wolf then the wolves can't attack that night. Let me know what you think of that rule. (or maybe if they lynched the alpha wolf then the other wolves would be cowering). Of course it wouldnt have changed anything in these last 2 games because in both games no wolf was lynched.
Quote from: dayowlron on Tue 07/08/2018 18:49:48
first off I did enjoy it but I still think with so few players the wolves have way too much of an advantage.
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
QuoteYeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
That would change very little, I think. It would just add another Day Phase where people discuss without evidence, just like in Day 1.
That would give the seer a day to hopefully find a wolf without any other threat of dying.
You're right. The seer role completely slipped my mind there for a second.
Any help the guard can be given would be great.
I guarded a wolf in both games. I did consider flat out stating I was the guard this game, but I felt no one would believe me...
YES! I curse you, wolves, with my Seer powers! Let's see how you like
that! (laugh)
But really, I deserve to be eaten for buggering that game up so spectacularly. I thought that gaining an ally would be more beneficial than finding a wolf so soon in the game. I should have scanned Mandle the first night, but I was worried that he would be eaten and my scan would be wasted. So I went for someone less likely to be attacked. Then on the second day, I didn't really want to vote for Adeel, but I was still so unsure about Mandle and I thought that lynching a
possible wolf is better than lynching nobody at all. I should have refused to vote, or voted for tzachs, who I suspected the most at that point, which would have caused a tie and therefore no lynching that day. So then when I finally
did scan Mandle, he gave himself away anyway. >:( :P
So, yeah, I failed massively that round. But I have learned from it, and that's what is most important. :-D
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
Yeah, that would be great! I'll play again, whatever the setting! :)
I enjoyed playing :)
And I enjoyed Sinitrena's hosting, well done!
I must say, as the fool, I didn't "feel" neutral, I felt almost completely pro-wolves, trying to be bait and take the pressure away from them.
So yeah, for a 8 people game, I support either removing the fool or doing first night with no kill.
Another alternative, btw, instead of having first night with no kill would be to give the seer the ability to scan somebody at the beginning of the game, this way we won't need to wait a day for the "real game" to begin.
Btw, if Sinitrena will host another game (and I hope so), there's a list of roles here (https://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/BGG_Werewolf_PBF_Role_List) that might give you some ideas (though a lot of these roles look more useful only when you have a lot more players, I think).
Quote from: Riaise on Tue 07/08/2018 19:55:44
I thought that gaining an ally would be more beneficial than finding a wolf so soon in the game.
I find it a very reasonable strategy, actually.
Open for everyone now hopefully means everyone, not just the participants..? /looks around nervously
I just wanted to drop by to say that it was a really entertaining and exciting read, well done guys. Don't worry about losing, or winning too easily, or not managing to tip the balance with your powers. It was a great show, and as a mere observer I really did feel everyone participated and contributed equally well.
And Sinitrena, that was some beautiful storytelling, can't wait for more!
Quote from: VampireWombat on Tue 07/08/2018 19:22:11
Any help the guard can be given would be great.
I guarded a wolf in both games. I did consider flat out stating I was the guard this game, but I felt no one would believe me...
I felt a bit sorry for you when the draw choose you as a guard the second time in a row. You didn't sound too happy with the role in the last game. But I didn't want to artificially change it, of course.
I watched some youtube videos of people playing this game in the last coupls of days (this channel (https://www.youtube.com/user/JustKiddingParty)) to understand it a bit better, and they use a nurse role insted of a guard. The nurse is basically allowed to revive someone. He/she choses someone to protect like the guard does, including his/herself, but an attack on the protected doesn't end in the death of the nurse. He/she is not allowed to protect the same person twice in a row, though. Maybe this would work better for us as well, especially with so few players.
Quote from: Riaise on Tue 07/08/2018 19:55:44
YES! I curse you, wolves, with my Seer powers! Let's see how you like that! (laugh)
Glad you liked it :-[ :-D :-[
Quote from: Riaise on Tue 07/08/2018 19:55:44
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
Yeah, that would be great! I'll play again, whatever the setting! :)
How about something very loosely based on Agatha Christie's "And then there where none" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None)?
Quote from: Kastchey on Tue 07/08/2018 20:11:33
Open for everyone now hopefully means everyone, not just the participants..? /looks around nervously
Of course, welcome.
Thanks for that, Sinitrena.
I didn't really have time to sit and chew over the posts in order to really think about it and come up with any ideas. I must admit, I thought at the end we might still have s chance but everyone else was already talking like it was game over an I didnt really have time to think of a solution.
I wouldn't mind playing a round without the fool.
Well, there was really no other outcome, only if the fool wanted to continue playing "wolf", but he didn't had too. :)
I must say that at one point I commented to Adeel that it would have been funny if Mandle was playing the fool... (laugh) But I suspected him to be wolf... is not for his suspicious "oh, they didn't eat me..." (laugh) And I was sure when we got "stu stew"... I thought "This is really Mandle's kind of humor". (laugh) And then he revealed himself... :P But yeah, I forgot the fool isn't town so hadn't realized the game was over at that point. (laugh)
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
You're an amazing host. I eagerly waited for your posts and really enjoyed reading them. You have a way with words.
Quote from: Sinitrena on Sat 04/08/2018 18:02:17
You find
Spoiler
some books and candles, the remnants of a cake and a birthday card, congratulating Adeel to his 1014th birthday (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=56325.0). (Happy belated birthday, Adeel.)
That was a really nice (and relevant) touch. I laughed out loud when I read that sentence. It made my day. :-D
Quote from: Cassiebsg on Tue 07/08/2018 20:34:35
I forgot the fool isn't town so hadn't realized the game was over at that point. (laugh)
Actually the fool is town, however he just has a different agenda than the rest of the town.
It was only over because the fool would have voted for himself to be hung and the wolves would have done the same thing making it 3 votes for the fool and only 2 for someone else and once the fool was lynched it would have been over cause it would have been 2 wolves and 2 town.
Quote from: VampireWombat on Tue 07/08/2018 18:06:16
Well, that was... interesting.
That'll teach me never to guard a werewolf ever again.
Yeah, the bodyguard would probably be best used by not guarding anyone until contacted by the Seer via PM. Remember that the bodyguard dies if their target is attacked so their only real value is in guarding the Seer. The wolves could pretend to be the Seer later on when there are only a few players left and make a guess at who the bodyguard is but probably too risky to be worth trying. The bodyguard only delays the Seer's death by one night really. Well, I guess after the first night phase the bodyguard could just guard anyone and then the wolves will assume that the guarded player is the Seer. Hmmmmm...
Who did you guard by the way?
I'd also be interested to hear who the Seer scanned both nights and whether they got in touch with them and what kind of discussion went on between them.
A bit later on I'll post the wolves' behind-the-scenes lines of thinking. There aren't 40+ PMs like the wolves had last game, probably because I was away over the weekend at my school event (yes, that was true) and also a lot of the time we pretty much just let each other do as we pleased in the thread, hoping that this would make us look less "in cahoots".
Yes, Sinitrena did an amazing job hosting. I definitely look forward to any others she hosts. :)
I was actually surprised when, jokingly, I told her we were in the mood for some Stupot stew, lol. I had no idea she would incorporate it into the story. (laugh) Sorry Stupot... I promise it's all in fun :)
Also, everyone did a really good job playing their part. I as well as Mandle actually thought that Stupot was the seer because he was pretty quiet, seemed like he was sitting back and communicating outside instead of inside. But we got fooled. And yes, I'm also curious which one of us you guarded VampireWombat and what your reason for so was?
All in all, I really enjoyed this round. (nod) But I'll admit I was extremely nervous when I found out I was alpha wolf but thankfully Mandle ended up being my back up wolf, lol. He reassured me it was all in fun, we kinda did our own thing, we both had some good ideas and we just worked well together, despite our 13 hr time difference! (laugh)
Well, I guess it's a good thing I'm a night owl bat, considering I'm a vampire now ;)
Quote from: Cassiebsg on Tue 07/08/2018 20:34:35
And I was sure when we got "stu stew"... I thought "This is really Mandle's kind of humor". (laugh)
That was actually Joshia's joke. That was the night-phase I was inactive in due to a weekend event at my school. I had nothing to do with it.
And, yeah, the GM probably shouldn't mention when incorporated jokes like that were suggested by the wolves until the game is over. We have played each other's games and read each other's forum posts for years (mostly) and a sense of humour can be a bit like a fingerprint sometimes. I was pretty concerned that everyone would, mistakenly in this case, think that was my joke, but it didn't matter anyway this time as I then got home, looked closer, and realized it was time for the wolves to come out anyway.
A minor point though...The GM did a great job this round, especially with the fun storytelling and good calls on rule queries.
Thanks for the great round Sinitrena!
Oh, and as for the Bodyguard role: This is actually a nerfed version of the Bodyguard. The original role of Night Guard allows the guard to block attacks without dying but cannot guard the same target two night phases in a row. So pretty much the same as the Nurse role mentioned above.
I nerfed the role for (what I thought was) a fairer balance, but it turned out I probably should have used the full-powered Guard role instead. Sorry, forgot to mention this after the first game ended. I should have mentioned this along with my comments about regretting using the Fool and having 3 wolves, but it slipped my mind.
In this second game however it wouldn't have made any difference so, oh well...
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
QuoteAnd this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty.
From an outside perspective, I don't entirely believe you here. What you actually did, intentional or not, was pretending to be neutral. You acted as if you stood outside the game and you used your experince for it. It's a valid tactic, but a bit more underhanded then you make it out to be, at least if it was intentuel.
Even after I literally said, during the game, that I would be telling the other players all this regardless of if I was a townie or a werewolf pretending to be a townie? I thought that was pretty fair warning so the only one I really felt dirty about was the "Don't give any reasons" trick, even though that should have raised a few eyebrows against me...
Well, perhaps there was one more that on a super-meta-level was sneaky, but I realized this after I had already posted the info, but more on that a bit later when I show some of the wolves' behind-the-scenes stuff...
Quote from: josiah1221 on Wed 08/08/2018 03:52:49
I was actually surprised when, jokingly, I told her we were in the mood for some Stupot stew, lol. I had no idea she would incorporate it into the story. (laugh) Sorry Stupot... I promise it's all in fun :)
Hat-trick!!!
VampireWombat protected Mandle in Night 1.
Riaise scanned Stupot in Night 1 and Mandle in Night 2.
Quote from: Mandle on Wed 08/08/2018 04:18:58
Quote from: Cassiebsg on Tue 07/08/2018 20:34:35
And I was sure when we got "stu stew"... I thought "This is really Mandle's kind of humor". (laugh)
That was actually Joshia's joke. That was the night-phase I was inactive in due to a weekend event at my school. I had nothing to do with it.
And, yeah, the GM probably shouldn't mention when incorporated jokes like that were suggested by the wolves until the game is over.
Oooops. You are correct, that was a mistake. I think I would still write specific wishes about the method of death but not tell you that it was a request. But, depending on how good the players know each other and me, that alone could be a hint to the identity of some players. I guess it's a risk to ask, but also way too much fun for me not to do it.
Quote from: Mandle on Wed 08/08/2018 04:18:58
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 18:20:57
QuoteAnd this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty.
From an outside perspective, I don't entirely believe you here. What you actually did, intentional or not, was pretending to be neutral. You acted as if you stood outside the game and you used your experince for it. It's a valid tactic, but a bit more underhanded then you make it out to be, at least if it was intentuel.
Even after I literally said, during the game, that I would be telling the other players all this regardless of if I was a townie or a werewolf pretending to be a townie?
That's actually what I meant. But it's probably just my first thought and gut-instinct reaction to you saying that you would say something no matter what role you are in. That reads like someone talking who has nothing to do with the proceedings of the game. It probably really is just my impression. And it also doesn't really matter, all tactics are allowed, after all. I actually laughed when I read your posts, knowing full well what your real role was. ;)
josiah really does seem to like killing Stupot, doesn't he? (laugh)
Quote from: Mandle on Wed 08/08/2018 00:20:01
Who did you guard by the way?
You. And then you went and murdered me... :~(
Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 07/08/2018 20:16:16
How about something very loosely based on Agatha Christie's "And then there where none" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_Then_There_Were_None)?
Oh, that could be interesting. More murder mystery than monster hunting. I like the sound of that! ;-D
Quote from: Mandle on Wed 08/08/2018 00:20:01
I'd also be interested to hear who the Seer scanned both nights and whether they got in touch with them and what kind of discussion went on between them.
Yeah, as Sinitrena said, I scanned Stupot on night one and you on night two. Stu and I mostly just discussed whether you were actually suspicious or just trying to help everyone. (laugh)
For the fool it might be interesting for them to claim to be the alpha wolf and ask the other villagers who they think the wolves should eat first.
Some other stuff that might make the guard role more interesting:
If the wolves decide to kill the guard, but the guard is out guarding somebody then the wolves just find his house empty and don't get a kill unless he was guarding a wolf that night, though that would tip the town off to who the guard or one of wolves is. If there is only one wolf left and they decide to kill the guard then the guard can kill them instead. Though this would probably make the guard overpowered. It also would imply lazy wolves.
There is a different role called the Hunter: If the wolves attack the Hunter then the Hunter still dies but takes down one of the wolves at random. If this was the last wolf then the town wins (assuming there are no other Evil roles around like the Serial Killer etc.)
So, do you all want to play again? And how soon?
I'll probably sit the next one out and enjoy it from an outside perspective :) But definitely will be joining in again soon! (nod)
Quote from: Sinitrena on Fri 10/08/2018 20:34:44
So, do you all want to play again? And how soon?
Are you saying you will GM again? If so then I'm in!!!
Yeah, I'll play again. Whenever is convenient for everyone else. (nod)
Sure. Maybe this time I can be something other than the guard...
Also in. As for when? We can start right now.
Vote: josiah1221
I just don't buy that "I'll sit this one out".
Quote from: Mandle on Sat 11/08/2018 12:41:21
Quote from: Sinitrena on Fri 10/08/2018 20:34:44
So, do you all want to play again? And how soon?
Are you saying you will GM again? If so then I'm in!!!
And if I don't, you won't? ;)
Of course I'LL GM again, that is, unless people want someone else to do it and there is someone who wants to do it. I loved GMing this thing. It was so much more fun to read all your posts knowing what you are than it did trying to trick you all in the round before.
Quote from: VampireWombat on Sat 11/08/2018 13:44:09
Sure. Maybe this time I can be something other than the guard...
I can guarantee with absolute certainty that you will not be a guard in the next round. (You might end up as a nurse, though. :=)
Quote from: Sinitrena on Sat 11/08/2018 15:11:01
I can guarantee with absolute certainty that you will not be a guard in the next round. (You might end up as a nurse, though. :=)
As long as I don't have to wear wear a miniskirt, that's fine.
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