Adventure Game Studio

Heyho, fellow AGS members and willing participants in the most murderous game of these forums, the fifth instalment of the AGS Werewolf Game.

If you're not familiar with the game yet, have fun reading a rather long post. If you already played, you may skip to the end of his post where I summarize changes from the last games.

So, what is the AGS Werewolf Game:

Werewolf or Mafia is a psychological game of mistrust and subterfuge where one side (“Good”) tries to figure out who belongs to the other (“Evil” or “Scum”) and murders them one after the other.

How to play:

At the beginning of the game, every player is assigned a role that might or might not have special abilities and their goal is to lead their team to victory, without knowing who actually belongs to their team.

The game can end in two ways:
The Good Side wins when all Evil players are dead.
The Evil Side wins when it is no longer possible to get a majority lynch vote against them.
There are special situations possible for both of these general conditions where there might not be a logical way left for one side or the other to win, despite the conditions not being met yet. In these cases, the game just runs its course until the condition is met. Giving up or trying to stir players in certain directions is always allowed, even if this runs against the supposed goals of a role.

The game is played in two alternating phases:

Day Phase:

During the Day Phase every player is awake and able and allowed to post for discussion and lynching in this thread.
This thread is closed for all non-players and players who are killed are no longer allowed to post here either.
Lynch-votes need to be bolded. None bolded votes will be ignored.
Votes are not final until the Day Phase ends and can be changed until the last second. They can also be completely taken back (in that case, please bold none in your posts to make this absolutely clear.)
It is never, under any circumstances allowed to edit posts, not even for typos or to add something before someone else posts. (Yes, double posts are allowed.)

The Day Phase will be about 48 hours and end in a time frame of three hours.

During these three hours, the host may close the phase at any point but if the host runs late for any reason, players are not allowed to post after the end of the three hour time frame. (Basically, the night phase begins at the end of this time frame (even if the host is running late) or earlier.)

Day Phases may end suddenly at any point during the provided three hour time frame so get those votes in while you can. Remember that they can always be changed later if you are in time!

Once the Day Phase has ended the Lynching takes place if a majority vote on a single player has been reached.

If a majority vote has not been reached then no player is lynched and the Day Phase ends.

Tied votes for the player to be lynched result in a stalemate and no player is lynched and the Day Phase ends.

It is not a requirement that the a player is lynched every Day Phase.
A lynched player's role is revealed after their death (with the exception of the Traitor (see below), who will be revealed as a Murderer (this role is deep undercover.))

A lynched player may no longer post in this thread. Every player is allowed to keep a „journal“ that the other players „find“ when they are killed. Every player is allowed to send a PM to the GM every Phase (Day and Night) with information he or she wants revealed in case of his/her death. The information does not have to be accurate or true. The GM will not censor this in any way or form. I will only look at the last PM from any killed player that has „Journal“ in the title. Please keep such PM‘s short and remember that I need them before the player is killed because the reveal of the journal happens at the same time as the reveal of the death. The only exception to all this is that a Psychic‘s last scan will be added by the GM to the last words should the Psychic be killed in a Night Phase.

Night Phase:

During Night Phase most of the Players are asleep and nobody may post in the game thread.

It is now time for all players with Night Phase abilities to PM their choices to the GM:

The Psychic should PM the name of the player they are scanning this night.

The Doctor should PM the name of the player they are protecting this night, if any.

The Murderers should send their kill votes to the GM, after discussing it with the other members of their team, and cc their the other Murderers.

Night Phase will last about 24 hours.

It is legal to PM the game host with your night action before the Night Phase starts if, for any reason, you cannot maybe be active during the next Night Phase.

Do not send more than one PM with your activities to the host. The first one sent is the action that will take place. (Except for the Journal-PM‘s where the last one sent is the one used.)

At the end of the Night Phase the game host will send out PMs to players who did private night actions such as scanning with the results. These PM‘s go out at about the same time as the wrap-up post for the Phase goes out.

Then the game host will open the next Day Phase, starting with a report on any casualties which may have occurred during the night.

Any players killed during the Night Phase must immediately follow the same rules as lynched players (see above): They may no longer post in this thread and their last words should already be out.

If, at any point, the Evil Side equal or outnumbers the other players they win the game as there is no way for the other players to gain a majority vote against them for lynching choices.



General other important rules:

• Never edit your posts. If you need to change anything, then double post. This is explicitly allowed while the game is active.
• Do not show screenshots of PMs from the GM or something similar. Do not use actual evidence (so to speak) from the GM. All communication with the GM should not be part of the actual gameplay.
• Evil Players should always consult with their team. Situations might arise where it is necessary from a game point of view to throw people of your own side under the bus. Discuss things like this as much as possible beforehand. This is to avoid resentments from building up.
• Communications outside of this thread are not only allowed but encouraged. Especially for the Evil Side they are necessary. But remember that killed players are immediately out of the game and may not talk about the game with active players any longer.
• Lying, tricking and deceiving are part of this game. Remember that it is just a game though and everything said during the game is not to be taken as personal attacks. We are all adults here and it is important to differentiate between the game and real (forum) life.
• First time players: You might not realize how stressful this game can be. Do not underestimate the way it will get to you. It will be nerve-racking.

Possible Roles:

Let me introduce you to some roles players can play in this game. How many of each one there will be and if all are used depends strongly on the number of players.

Good Side:

Normal Population:
Ability: None
Description: The most geniric role in this game with no special abilities and no special job except finding the bad guys. This is the role most people will play.
Goal: Uncover who belongs to the Evil Side. Members of the General Population have the right to vote every day for the person to lynch and hopefully for them to eliminate players of the Evil Side that way. Members of the Population can win the game even if they themselves get killed, so as a member you might consider sacrifices for the greater good (for example, a more important Good Side Role).

Psychic:
Ability: Scan another player‘s role once every Night Phase
Description: The Psychic is the main asset of the Good Side, as he or she is the one to have the best chance to uncover members of the Evil Side. The Psychic can scan players once every Night Phase by sending a PM to the Game Master (GM, that would be me) and receiving the role (and nothing else) as an answer.
Goal: The Psychic‘s goal is to eliminate all players of the Evil Side by scanning them and then convincing the other players to lynch them. The physic is allowed to vote for lynchings him-/herself too, of course. The Physic should seek to keep his/her role secret, as he/she is a likely target for murders by the Evil Side. The rest of the Good Side should also try to protect the Psychic as much as possible. The Psychic wins with the Good Side even if he/she is dead when all Evil players are eliminated.

Doctor:
Ability: Protect one player every Night Phase, including him-/herself, but not the same player twice in a row.
Description: The Doctor sends the GM the name of one player each Night Phase to protect. A protected player cannot be killed by the Evil Side in this Night Phase. If a player is protected, nobody receives any further information than that nobody was killed in the next Day Phase.
Goal: The Doctor seeks to protect his own side, including him-/herself but especially the Psychic as the main player to figure out the alignment of other players. The Doctor is the main line of defence (except for subterfuge) for the Good Side.

Traitor:
Ability: Lives among the Evil Side and knows them. Basically, an undercover cop (which is the name this role has in most games.)
Description: The traitor works undercover with the Evil Side, being allowed to vote on who they want to kill during the Night Phase but secretly seeks to stir the Good Side towards lynching his or her supposed allies of the Evil Side. As this person is deep undercover, a scan by the Psychic would reveal him or her as Evil aligned. (Can you see that I want to confuse you all as much as possible ?;))
Goal: The Traitor is ultimately on the Good Side and therefore wins with the same conditions as all other Good aligned characters, but counts towards the Evil Side on all other occasions. (An example: A Night Phase ends with 1 Murderer, 1 Traitor and 2 General Population alive â€" the game would count as lost for the Good Side!)
(Using the Traitor would make it necessary to change the format of the GM's communication with the Murderers as the use of one Alpha would reveal additional information. As I might not say if we have a traitor in this round, there will be no Alpha role all. Kill orders will need to be send to me by every member oft the Murderers as well as to every member of their own team. It means a bit more work, but that shouldn't be a problem.)

Evil Side:

The players of the Evil Side know who the other members of their team are (while the Good Side has no such information about their own team). They will receive this information by PM alongside their own roles once they are chosen. It is recommended, and expected, that the Evil Side players communicate with each other outside this forum thread.

Murderer:
Ability: Participate in one kill during each Night Phase; knows all other players of the Evil Side.
Description: The Murderer decides on one person to kill each Night Phase, along with the other murderers.
Goal: The Murderer‘s goal is it to reduce the Good Side so that no majority lynch vote against the Evil Side is possible any longer, at which point the Evil Side would be able to pick the Good Side of one by one and the Evil Side has won. The Murderer should try to appear non-threatening and as innocent as possible, with the goal that Good Side players get lynched. Should the Traitor role be used, it should be noted that a majority kill vote against a member of the Murderers is possible.


Changes from the last rounds:

• a Psychic's last scan will automatically be added to their last words by the GM in case they get killed during the Night, as was discussed after the last game.
• added the Traitor role (see above for details) which leads to changes in the way the Murderers communicate their orders to the GM:
• there is no longer a Leader/Alpha role
• discussions as to who to kill should still be just among the Murderers
• but the final decision needs to be send to the GM by every Murderer individually. Also, these kill-votes needs to be also send to the other members of their team (cc) so that there is no confusion with that

Several people hinted or outright asked in out-of-character discussions to play a round without knowing what the used roles actually are. So far, I always told you that we had 1 Psychic and 1 Doctor and 2 General Population and so on. I'd love to play a round where you don't know this and you don't even know if I used all roles described above. I need a minimum of 10 players (12 or more would be better) for such a round, due to the fact that otherwise there is not enough variation as to what roles I can assign (there have to be at least 2 Murderers, because otherwise their ability is gone, there should be more people on the Good side than the Evil side and so on).

I'd really like to use the Traitor role, but I don't think it would work with roles “pre-revealed”. I would also like to add even more possible roles for a game with secret roles, just so that it is more difficult to figure out who is who and what roles even play. So, if you feel like it, write up a couple roles that could be used.

Also, like I did for the last round, I did not provide a setting yet and am open to suggestions again.


Final questions:

• Who wants to play? Register now.
• What setting would you like?
• Would you like a full role-playing game, a mixed one (that's what we had all previous rounds) or a purely tactical game (which might make it easier if we really keep it secret which roles are involved)?
• Are there other roles you would like to see?
• Will we play a secret round (I don't tell you which roles are used) or a pre-revealed one (as in the rounds before, you will know how many players are playing each role)? (A secret round requires ten or more players, I'd say.)

I hope I got everything, if not, just ask.

I think I'll keep registration open for a week or so, just so we have something like a schedule for this game and don't wait forever hoping for more people to register.

Sure, why not?
As for all the questions, whatever is fine...

IN!!!

(Still musing over questions)

Count me in again! ;-D

I like the sound of a secret round. I hope there'll be enough players to do that. As for the setting, maybe something like a Jack-the-Ripper-esque Victorian London?

I'm trying to get my head around the traitor role. So, the traitor is on the Evil team, but is actually playing for the good side without anyone else knowing? Is that right?

Jack the Ripper London? That might work, sure. I considered something a lot stranger, viruses against vaccines, for example, but that might turn out too strange. I'll go with whatver you all chose. I just wanted to let you know that it doesn't have to be human characters or even lifeforms. I'm currently binge-watching "The Americans" so I wouldn't be opposed to a nice little spy-thriller either.

Quote from: Riaise on Tue 09/07/2019 15:11:13
I'm trying to get my head around the traitor role. So, the traitor is on the Evil team, but is actually playing for the good side without anyone else knowing? Is that right?

That's the idea, yes. I'm not sure how good it would work. I never do before we actually try it out. Especially the "counting as Evil when it comes to win conditions" might not work out too well.
Technically, the Traitor is an information gatherer for the Good Side like the Psychic, but stronger because he knows all Evil aligned people immediately and at the same time weaker because he is counted in all other aspects for the Evil Side himself.

I'd also like to add more roles to the roster, especially if we do a secret round, so that it becomes part of the game to figure out which roles are actually playing. With the rather small number of roles we have right now, the setup would be easy to guess (and easier the less players we have). I would love to make the role setup random as well, but I think I need to keep control of this aspect.

Oh, spies could be good. The traitor role would fit well with a theme like that.

No more players? :(

That looks bad. There's no way to play a werewolf game with just three players. Let's hope for some last minute sign-ups.

You May or may not have noticed my absence here and in the previous game. I just found the last couple of games quite hard to keep on top of and keeping up with all the possibilities and permutations is really hard without more time to sit down and think things through undistracted.

That said, I'll give it another go. Sign me up.

I tried to wrap my head around a way to play with four people but I'm really not sure it would be fun. I'll start the game on Saturday, no matter what, and I'm not going to tell you how I set up the roles with just four players. It will be a short game, obviously. I'd love some last minute registrations (really last minute now). If no more players show up, the setting will be Riase's suggested Jack-the-Ripper-esque world (for a Spy story I'd need a bit more people) and it will be light on the role-playing aspect, simply because there won't be much time to "create" characters.

So that's the plan:
- game starts on Saturday (20. July) with a Day Phase
- secret game (you will not know the role setup; though logical thinking will tell you some things that are just necessary with so few players)
- mixed (role-playing and tactical)
- setting: Jack the Ripper

You can always disagree and I'll try to listen to you.

I wasn't planning on joining this round. Due to my schedule and time differences I tend to always be the last one to respond during the day phase conversations, which makes it look like I'm playing a strategy when in actuality I'm just late to the game. BUT, this secret aspect has me intrigued so I think I will give it a go regardless. :)

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 15/07/2019 16:11:31
That said, I'll give it another go. Sign me up.

Woooohooooo!!!

 ;-D ;-D ;-D

Blue Cup Harold

20. July 1889

New Developments in the Adventurer‘s Murders Case
from our correspondent WoF

The shocking case of the Adventurer‘s Murderer, that has hold our town in its grip for the last four weeks, may be close to a resolution, we learned from a knowledgeable source in the police department.

With one victim every third day in four weeks and another found just last night, the body count has reach double digits. The gruesome murders, all styled like stations in a scavenger hunt, have left countless families and friends screaming for justice in the streets.

So far, the performance by the local police force seemed rather unsuccessful and people even started to doubt they were actually working on the case. Constant rumours that the police themselves was somehow involved in the case could not be stopped, neither by cracking down on organized crime, nor by futile attempts to keep the public informed. We cannot deny, that we here at the Blue Cup Harold did not feel as informed as would be appropriate.

Therefore, our correspondent decided to seek unofficial sources to keep our readers informed and now we can tell you, that the police has, with reasonable certainty, narrowed down a list of suspects to just five people. Our source was not forthcoming as to the reason, but it seems that the list of potential perpetrators is also the list of potential next victims. We therefore see it as our duty, despite the insistence to the contrary from the police, to tell you the names of these people: VampireWombat, Mandle, Riaise, Stupot, josiah1225. Unfortunately, it was not possible to get further information on these individuals before our printing time, but we assure you that our reporters are hard at work and will have information ready for our next edition.

Please remember that the warnings of the police still apply for all inhabitants of Blue Cup: keep vigilant and do not get involved in activities that could reasonably be described as Adventure Games until the murders are solved.

-------------------------

As agreed, I will not tell you which roles are used in this round and therefore I cannot tell you when the game might end in any given round. So the game might end suddenly.

I can tell you that the following people play:

VampireWombat
Mandle
Riaise
Stupot
josiah1221


The first Day Phase starts now. You can discuss, argue and lynch. Remember to bold your lynch votes.

You can also send Last Words to me if you have anything to say.

Day Phase ends on Monday between 5 and 8 pm (forum time).

Let's go!

Alright, can we just save everyone a bit of time and the murderer just confess so the rest of us can move on with our lives? I have a wife and 6 kids to feed.

Obviously there has been a mistake. I am josiah1221 not josiah1225. I shouldn't be here, a case of mistaken identity! Who is responsible for this? I want answers!

Okay. Here's 3 answers. Good luck figuring out the questions. Twelve, goat, and Friday.

Quote from: josiah1221 on Sat 20/07/2019 21:50:03
Obviously there has been a mistake. I am josiah1221 not josiah1225. I shouldn't be here, a case of mistaken identity! Who is responsible for this? I want answers!

Maybe a bug fell into the printer as it was creating the list of suspects and caused the error. It's happened before but once the list starts its way through the bureaucracy it's extremely hard, if not impossible, to correct. I'm afraid you're stuck here.

Hang on, are we just sitting 'ere waiting for the murderer to confess? 'Cause that don't seem likely. And who's to say there ain't more than one of 'em? I mean, I'm a clever gal, I know it ain't likely given there's so few of us, but you never know, right?

I have no idea anything really. I just know that people are dead and all of us are suspects. Since I don't recognize any of you, I'd say it's safe to say I'm not working with any of you for anything. And it's been 6 years since I've been blackout drunk, so it's not like that could be used as an excuse.
All of you can confess as far as I'm concerned. All I want is to get back to my wife and kids before they resort to eating rats.

Well, time to get down to the game I guess.

With 5 players I suspect there is only one murderer.

There's probably one seer.

That means 3 people are probably just normal civilian population of the city.

Given that we don't know roles then, who to trust?

If anyone trusts me please PM me and we can talk.

Yeah, that's similar to what I was thinking. There could be both a psychic and a doctor, but I would think it's more likely that there's only one of them with so few players. So one murderer, one doctor or psychic, and three normals.

Not that it makes much difference at this stage. There's no way of knowing who to trust yet and I'm not about to go trusting just anyone. Not this time, anyway. :P

One murderer, a psychic/doctor and 3 civilians seems like the most likely set up. So I think we can all agree that lynching is out of the question on Day 1 considering how risky it would be with such a limited number of players.


ZPV DBO USVTU NF

I'll fairly sure at this point that the 3 non-power-role Town players are:

Myself,
VampireWombat,
josiah1221.

(I don't want to reveal the method I used to determine this just yet as new evidence may still come to light.)

So either Stupot or Riaise are the Scum (if there is only one Scum).

It doesn't really matter if we lynch the Seer by mistake at this point as we can just lynch the remaining person on Day 2.

I find Riaise suspicious for the same reason I can't mention just yet.

Vote To Lynch: Riaise

Thank you, I'm honoured. :P I'm not the murderer, but I'm pretty sure you must already know that.

I agree with Josiah, there's no reason to lynch anyone today. Despite Mandle's mystical method, there's a much higher chance of lynching an innocent player than finding the murderer. And, obviously, I don't want to be lynched, so...

Vote to lynch: None

Quote from: Riaise on Mon 22/07/2019 10:23:01
I'm not the murderer, but I'm pretty sure you must already know that.

I don't know that at all, but nice shade-throwing!  (laugh)

I'm sorry...

Vote To Lynch: Riaise

I'm also up for not lynching anyone this time.

I was actually wondering if none of us are the murderer, or even sinitrena herself, but that would be very devious. Good experiment though.

Vote to lynch: nobody.

That is a good point, Stupot. Kind of like the Sabrina the Teenage Witch episode where Sabrina's class goes to Salem and they're given role cards, with one supposed to be a witch. Then at the end the teacher who made the cards said there never was a witch card. It would be kind of fun(ny) if we lynched everyone and it turned out everyone was innocent...

Okay, here's the method I used to determine who were the normal townfolk:

I noticed, through my own role info, that the normal townfolk have the unusual title of "Civilian" so I threw that out there in my post in what I hoped was a subtle way guessing that anyone other than a normal townfolk didn't know that label yet:

Quote from: Mandle on Sun 21/07/2019 17:21:57
That means 3 people are probably just normal civilian population of the city.

Given that we don't know roles then, who to trust?

If anyone trusts me please PM me and we can talk.

I got a reply from Vampire Wombat mentioning the "Civilian" label in particular, meaning I could pretty much trust him.

Then Josiah122? posted this:

Quote from: josiah1221 on Mon 22/07/2019 05:12:09
One murderer, a psychic/doctor and 3 civilians seems like the most likely set up. So I think we can all agree that lynching is out of the question on Day 1 considering how risky it would be with such a limited number of players.


ZPV DBO USVTU NF

His code reads "YOU CAN TRUST ME", but that was beside the point. He mentioned the word "Civilian" which was enough for me.

So, either Riaise or Stupot are the Scum.

If we lynch one today and get it wrong we can lynch the other tomorrow and get it right.

Vote Riaise!

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 22/07/2019 13:37:22
I'm also up for not lynching anyone this time.

I was actually wondering if none of us are the murderer, or even sinitrena herself, but that would be very devious. Good experiment though.

Vote to lynch: nobody.

That's actually a very possible theory. Would be awesome! But I'm gonna play as if it's an actual game for now.

Blue Cup Harold

22. July 1889

Acknowledgements and Corrections

In our edition dated 20. July 1889 we mistakenly identified one of the suspects in the Adventurer's Murders case as one josiah1225. No such person exists. The suspect's name is josiah1221.

[…]


Adventurer's Murders: Police Releases Suspects

The five suspects in the Adventurer's Murders Case, who were suddenly arrested just the day before (see yesterday's edition) despite the police officially insisting up until that point that the Blue Cup Harold's information about these individuals was wrong, were released again just as suddenly.

This group of five people, who seem to have little in common on first glance (see page 12: Who are the Suspects?), still remain the only viable suspects, according to our sources. Hard evidence seems to connect each of these individuals with at least one of the crime scenes, though it was not possible for our reporters to gather the nature of this evidence. Nor were any official speakers for the police willing to comment on the reason of this sudden release.

[…]


Adventurer's Murders: Is the Police Failing the People?
An opinion piece by Ms. Eden

With the release of the five suspects, the police shows once again its incompetence. That should not be surprising by now, considering their apparent inability to stop the gruesome murders from taking place for four weeks by now.

Their real incompetence becomes clear once you look at the timetable of the murders: With one every three days, tonight will be the next one, and still they released the only suspects they have. Can we really trust the police to stop another murder from happening? Or do we, the people, need to take matters into our own hands? Mine is not the first voice to advocate a hands on approach from our civilian population.

[…]



----------------------------------------------------------------------------



We have two votes to lynch Riaise. This is not a majority vote, so the Day Phase ends without a lynching.

Night 1 starts now and all players with abilities should send me their orders. All players may send in Last Words. Also, should someone wish to die in a specific way, just add it to your Last Words and if you do get killed, I'll try to follow your request (the same if you want to kill someone in a specific way).

The Night Phase will last about 24 hours. There are no posts allowed here until the next Day Phase.

Players:

Spoiler

VampireWombat - alive
Mandle - alive
Riaise - alive
Stupot - alive
josiah1221 â€" alive

[close]

Current Phase: Night 1

Blue Cup Harold
23. July 1889

Adventurer's Murderer Strikes Again

The seemingly endless stream of murders that holds our city in its grip shows no sign of ceasing. Tonight, the murderer claimed his latest victim.

Vampire Wombat, who we identified as both a potential perpetrator as well as potential victim in our edition of 20. July, was found in the early hours of the morning. Following a report of a loud noise from the old fortress on Monkey-Island-Street, the police arrived on the scene of the crime at 5.03 am. The body of Mr. Wombat was found half inside one of the old cannons on the balustrade of the fortress. Both his legs and arms were bound. A speaker of the police confirmed that Mr. Wombat was stuffed into the bore and then the cannon was fired, resulting in yet another gruesome and absurd death.

The method alone confirms the connection of this death to the other Adventurer's Murders.

At the time of the printing of this newspaper, the other four suspects were still free. The police was not forthcoming as to their next steps. Therefore, we urge our readers to keep vigilant and on the lookout for anything suspicious.


----------------

Who shoots people out of cannons? Your lovely host does.  ;)

VampireWombat is dead. He had no special role and offered no last words.

Players:

Spoiler

VampireWombat â€" shot out of a cannon in Night 1
Mandle - alive
Riaise - alive
Stupot - alive
josiah1221 â€" alive

[close]

Day 2 begins now and the thread is open for discussions and lynchings for all our players except the killed ones.

It will end on Thursday, between 5 and 8 pm.

Current Phase: Day 2

Poor Wombat. What a gruesome way to go. 8-0

Anyway, on with the game. Mandle's suspicions are partly correct. I am not a normal civilian, I am a psychic and because Mandle worked out who the normal civilians were, last night I scanned Stupot and he is, indeed, the murderer. So now it's up to Mandle and Josiah to decide whether they believe me. Which brings me to the interesting conclusion that I should have lynched myself yesterday, because then they could be certain of who the murderer is. But I didn't think far enough ahead and assumed that my role was too important to throw away, so apologies.

Vote to lynch: Stupot

Hmmm, who to trust... Mandle figured out the "civilians". Now Riaise comes out as the psychic, all while Stupot has been pretty quiet...

Well, we have lost one civilian, so that only leaves me and one other, plus the psychic (if there is one) and the murderer.

So either Riaise is the murderer, which is why she has suddenly come out as the psychic trying to turn the attention away from herself, but if that was the case it seems she would have more than likely voted for Mandle since he drew first blood. Or she is the psychic and did indeed scan Stupot, and in turn, found out he is the murder.

At this point it's pretty obvious that myself and Mandle are indeed civilians.

So either Riaise or Stupot are the murderer.

I am curious to hear what Stupot has to say before I decide on who to vote for.

Quote from: Riaise on Tue 23/07/2019 19:52:01
Poor Wombat. What a gruesome way to go. 8-0

Anyway, on with the game. Mandle's suspicions are partly correct. I am not a normal civilian, I am a psychic and because Mandle worked out who the normal civilians were, last night I scanned Stupot and he is, indeed, the murderer. So now it's up to Mandle and Josiah to decide whether they believe me. Which brings me to the interesting conclusion that I should have lynched myself yesterday, because then they could be certain of who the murderer is. But I didn't think far enough ahead and assumed that my role was too important to throw away, so apologies.

Vote to lynch: Stupot

Reply In Case You Are Telling The Truth: Well played! And, naw, you shouldn't have lynched yourself because what if I was the Murderer and had also been privy in my intro PM to the fact that Town players were called Civilians? This was an option I kind didn't mention on purpose yesterday and I'm kind of surprised no one else brought it up. Anyway, I knew it wasn't the case for me but it could also have been the case for VW and Josiah. However, seeing as there was no third player mentioning the term "Civilian" in PM or ingame post I figured we were pretty safe.

Reply In Case You Are Lying: Well played, you sneaky so-and-so!  (nod)

Well, an interesting choice now, and if we choose wrong that's game over.

All we really have to go on is the murder of Vampire Wombat.

If Riaise really is the Seer then Stupot killed VW. Why would he do this when he would be 99% sure that Riaise is the Seer? He would have killed her, knowing that she would scan him, to prevent his role being busted. Wouldn't he?

If Stupot is the Seer then Riaise killed VW. She wouldn't have been able to kill Stupot as that would have revealed his Seer role and she would be the obvious lynch today. This would have been an auto-lose for her. She would have figured out, quite cleverly, that the only chance she stood was to keep the Seer role in doubt and claim it for herself ASAP in this day phase and then it would be her word against Stupot's, giving her at least a 50/50 chance of a win.

So, for now:

Vote To Lynch: Riaise

Damn. Poor Wombie.

I am not the murderer. I'm the psychic. I scanned Mandle because I thought he was the murderer. But I can confirm Mandle has no special role. Riaise is surely the murderer! My thinking was that Mandle was playing some mind games when he said about Josiah and Wombat both saying ‘civilian' but I noticed that Wombat never actually said that word, so it didn't really make sense to me. That's why I scanned him.

I thought for sure Riaise would kill me because if she believed Mandle's theory was correct then she'd know I'm the psychic. Still not sure why she left me alive. Perhaps killing me would mean she was the only ‘non civilian' left so she would just be lynched anyway. I dunno. All I know is that regardless of the ‘civilian' question, the fact that Riaise is claiming me to be the murderer means that SHE is the murderer.

Vote to lynch: Riaise

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 00:40:37
Damn. Poor Wombie.

I am not the murderer. I'm the psychic. I scanned Mandle because I thought he was the murderer. But I can confirm Mandle has no special role. Riaise is surely the murderer! My thinking was that Mandle was playing some mind games when he said about Josiah and Wombat both saying ‘civilian' but I noticed that Wombat never actually said that word, so it didn't really make sense to me. That's why I scanned him.

I thought for sure Riaise would kill me because if she believed Mandle's theory was correct then she'd know I'm the psychic. Still not sure why she left me alive. Perhaps killing me would mean she was the only ‘non civilian' left so she would just be lynched anyway. I dunno. All I know is that regardless of the ‘civilian' question, the fact that Riaise is claiming me to be the murderer means that SHE is the murderer.

Vote to lynch: Riaise

Hmmmm, I did say in my post:

Quote from: Mandle on Mon 22/07/2019 16:45:47

Quote from: Mandle on Sun 21/07/2019 17:21:57
That means 3 people are probably just normal civilian population of the city.

Given that we don't know roles then, who to trust?

If anyone trusts me please PM me and we can talk.

I got a reply from Vampire Wombat mentioning the "Civilian" label in particular, meaning I could pretty much trust him.

Then Josiah122? posted this:

Quote from: josiah1221 on Mon 22/07/2019 05:12:09
One murderer, a psychic/doctor and 3 civilians seems like the most likely set up. So I think we can all agree that lynching is out of the question on Day 1 considering how risky it would be with such a limited number of players.


ZPV DBO USVTU NF

This makes it kind of clear that VW PMed me but I guess this could have been misconstrued if you were quickly scanning the post and not paying too much attention.

But these words of yours concern me:

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 00:40:37
I thought for sure Riaise would kill me because if she believed Mandle's theory was correct then she'd know I'm the psychic.

You have contradicted yourself.

You said you scanned me because you thought I was the scum player, and yet you were worried about Riaise killing you during the night?

If you were so worried about that, surely you would have scanned Riaise and not me? Explain please.

One other thing that gives me pause (either way) :

You say:

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 00:40:37
I can confirm Mandle has no special role.

This is indeed the exact term that Sinitrena used in her last post concerning VW, but you also knew that. You could just be using this term (and bolding it) to play into my mindset of looking for hints in the language being used by players.

Very concerning and confusing at the same time.

Oh, and I realized that my logic of why Riaise wouldn't have killed the Seer also applies to Stupot so that was faulty thinking on my part.

I'm waiting on something and then might be changing my vote.

Actually, this is damning enough for me:

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 00:40:37
I scanned Mandle because I thought he was the murderer...

and then later in the same post:

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 00:40:37
I thought for sure Riaise would kill me...

Vote To Lynch: Stupot

My vote stands until Stupot can try to explain this apparent self-contradiction.

@Mandle. What I mean is that IF your theory was correct the Riaise would definitely be the killer so it would have been a waste to scan her as she would have killed me anyway (although it turned out she didn't). So I was playing with my idea that you were the murderer. If you were, there was still a chance you wouldn't have killed me and I would know whether or not you were the murderer.

Also, that ‘no special role' thing is just copy and pasted. I bolded it to show that's exactly how she presented it in my PM.

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 01:24:07
@Mandle. What I mean is that IF your theory was correct the Riaise would definitely be the killer so it would have been a waste to scan her as she would have killed me anyway (although it turned out she didn't). So I was playing with my idea that you were the murderer. If you were, there was still a chance you wouldn't have killed me and I would know whether or not you were the murderer.

Also, that ‘no special role' thing is just copy and pasted. I bolded it to show that's exactly how she presented it in my PM.

Makes sense to me!

And, as I know Riaise is much sneakier at these kind of things than Stupot (hopefully)...

Vote To Lynch: Riaise

With what has recently been said and revealed I feel that Riaise is most likely the murderer, rather than Stupot, just because of how it has played out thus far.

Let's hope we are right, otherwise we're good as dead!

Vote to lynch: Riaise

Quote from: josiah1221 on Wed 24/07/2019 02:43:58
With what has recently been said and revealed I feel that Riaise is most likely the murderer, rather than Stupot, just because of how it has played out thus far.

Let's hope we are right, otherwise we're good as dead!

Vote to lynch: Riaise

If we are wrong, and Stupot fooled us then it's okay because I live only a short while from him and will go around and... congratulate him and buy him a beer, not punch him in the nose at all.

Hey, no threats against the real life personas of other players, not even in jest. (I don't believe for a second you were serious, that's just where I draw the line.)

Quote from: Sinitrena on Wed 24/07/2019 06:02:42
Hey, no threats against the real life personas of other players, not even in jest. (I don't believe for a second you were serious, that's just where I draw the line.)

Okay, withdrawn. I will never punch Stupot in the nose ever again.

Well, reading through these posts has been a rollercoaster! (laugh)

Firstly, let me reply to/comment on the previous posts:

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 24/07/2019 00:18:24
Reply In Case You Are Telling The Truth: Well played! And, naw, you shouldn't have lynched yourself because what if I was the Murderer and had also been privy in my intro PM to the fact that Town players were called Civilians? This was an option I kind didn't mention on purpose yesterday and I'm kind of surprised no one else brought it up.

It didn't even occur to me that the murderer may have been privy to that info. Why would they? My own role info literally just stated my role and nothing else (other than Sinitrena saying that the game would start shortly), so why would the murderer get extra information? That's why, once you'd revealed your method, I was certain that you must have been telling the truth. In my mind, there's no way you'd have known that Sinitrena used the term "civilian" if you weren't one yourself.

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 24/07/2019 00:31:54
If Stupot is the Seer then Riaise killed VW. She wouldn't have been able to kill Stupot as that would have revealed his Seer role and she would be the obvious lynch today. This would have been an auto-lose for her. She would have figured out, quite cleverly, that the only chance she stood was to keep the Seer role in doubt and claim it for herself ASAP in this day phase and then it would be her word against Stupot's, giving her at least a 50/50 chance of a win.

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 24/07/2019 01:09:20
Oh, and I realized that my logic of why Riaise wouldn't have killed the Seer also applies to Stupot so that was faulty thinking on my part.

Please keep this in mind. The logic is absolutely correct, you've just applied it the wrong way around in the first instance.

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 24/07/2019 01:06:06

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 00:40:37
I thought for sure Riaise would kill me because if she believed Mandle's theory was correct then she'd know I'm the psychic.

You have contradicted yourself.

Yes, he has. So would you rather trust someone who has contradicted themselves and had to come up with an explanation later, or someone who has not contradicted themselves at all?

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 24/07/2019 01:24:07
@Mandle. What I mean is that IF your theory was correct the Riaise would definitely be the killer so it would have been a waste to scan her as she would have killed me anyway (although it turned out she didn't). So I was playing with my idea that you were the murderer. If you were, there was still a chance you wouldn't have killed me and I would know whether or not you were the murderer.

So, if I was the murderer then I would definitely kill you, but if Mandle was the murderer then he probably wouldn't? What? Also, if the psychic is killed then their last scan is revealed anyway, so no scan is wasted. Surely this is something that the psychic should know? ;)

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 24/07/2019 01:38:13
And, as I know Riaise is much sneakier at these kind of things than Stupot (hopefully)...

You have vastly overestimated my sneakiness. (laugh)

And lastly, let me just mention one more thing. After Mandle set his idea in motion, my first post was this:

Quote from: Riaise on Sun 21/07/2019 20:22:45
Yeah, that's similar to what I was thinking. There could be both a psychic and a doctor, but I would think it's more likely that there's only one of them with so few players. So one murderer, one doctor or psychic, and three normals.

Not that it makes much difference at this stage. There's no way of knowing who to trust yet and I'm not about to go trusting just anyone. Not this time, anyway. :P

Note how I try to distract from the psychic role by introducing the idea of there could be a doctor instead (very subtly, I admit). It's not much, but it was the best I could do to try and keep my role hidden for as long as possible. Now, here's Stu's post:

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 22/07/2019 13:37:22
I'm also up for not lynching anyone this time.

I was actually wondering if none of us are the murderer, or even sinitrena herself, but that would be very devious. Good experiment though.

Vote to lynch: nobody.

He does exactly the same thing but trying to distance himself from the role of murderer.

So, yeah, I think that's all. If it hasn't convinced you, then I don't know what else I've got. All I can say for definite is that if I get lynched then we have lost the game.

Sorry Riaise, your case is very compelling but I feel thou dost protest too much.

Those last two examples of yours and Stupot's posts just feel desperate to me. Either one could mean anything.

At the end of the day (pun intended) we have no real way to know but my gut suspects you more than Stu (rhyme intended).

May God have mercy on my soul if I am wrong.

(I SOOOO WANT TO KNOW RIGHT NOW WHICH IT IS!!! That's the "fun" of the game though.)

Fair enough. If you've already made up your mind then I'm already in a no-win situation. If I don't put forward any arguments why I'm telling the truth then I won't convince you, and if I do then you think I'm protesting too much. I suppose it's karma for what happened in the last game. (laugh)

Can I ask why you found me more suspicious than Stupot from this post (https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=57306.msg636608432#msg636608432) onwards? Because I'm not sure what I did other than not use the word "civilian".

I'm pretty sure that the Psychic doesn't get a chance to reveal their scan if they were killed that night under Sinitrena's rules.

You, Riaise, claiming that the "Psychic" should have known they would get that chance kind of sealed it for me.

Quote from: Sinitrena on Mon 08/07/2019 17:46:45
Day Phase:

[...]

A lynched player may no longer post in this thread. Every player is allowed to keep a „journal“ that the other players „find“ when they are killed. Every player is allowed to send a PM to the GM every Phase (Day and Night) with information he or she wants revealed in case of his/her death. The information does not have to be accurate or true. The GM will not censor this in any way or form. I will only look at the last PM from any killed player that has „Journal“ in the title. Please keep such PM‘s short and remember that I need them before the player is killed because the reveal of the journal happens at the same time as the reveal of the death. The only exception to all this is that a Psychic‘s last scan will be added by the GM to the last words should the Psychic be killed in a Night Phase.

First post, under "Day Phase", bolded for emphasis by me.

Well, that's a game changer for me:

Vote To Lynch: Stupot

Well, let's hope that Josiah agrees! :-D

Oh. I genuinely didn't realise that the psychic's scan is revealed when they are murdered. I assumed it wasn't. To be fair that is a big block of text in the first post and it's easy to miss a detail like that (I mean you did miss it too, Mandle, and until two posts ago you also assumed it wasn't revealed, as I did).

As the psychic I know should have checked that but it didn't occur to me.

Sorry Stu, but not only have you contradicted yourself but you have also missed a key feature to your "supposed" (and very important) role! Also, Riaise hasn't slipped an inch as far as I can tell.

I do understand how overwhelming these games can become so it's easy to miss information or trip over your own words. But normally if you are telling the truth 9 times out of 10 you won't slip or trip.

Vote to lynch: Stupot



(If Riaise turns out to be the murderer then she deserves the MVP award for pulling the wool over our eyes, especially Mandle's) (If Mandle ends up being the murderer then we should all just retire from WW games, lol.)

Oh, and another reason I changed my vote to Stupot was because I feel if he really was the psychic then he would have made sure to read over the role just to make sure he completely understood his position. At least that's what I would have done. Or then again maybe it was just an honest oversight, but this is a game where oversights and mistakes can and will cost lives. So my vote stands unless proven otherwise.

My only crime here is not rereading that massive wall of text with a fine-tooth comb after being given my role. If you lynch me tonight, it's game over for all of us. Other than that, I don't know what to say. I already explained the apparent contradiction and given you my whole thought process in minute detail.

Sorry, Stu... I do have a bad feeling about this choice but I would have a bad feeling about the other choice too.

This just seems (barely) more plausible to me. It's kind of impossible to tell one way or the other.

Blue Cup Harold
25. July 1889

Adventurer's Murders: Latest Victim Found
Police confident: Killer Identified

It is with greatest sadness that we must confirm the murder of our very own correspondent WoF. WoF disappeared two days ago at the same time as the gruesome murder of Mr. Wombat, the then thought to be latest victim of the Adventurer's Murderer was found (we reported in our editions of 23. July and 24. July).

WoF, who took it upon herself to follow one of the suspects in this infamous case, was last seen alive just hours before the events that lead to the discovery of Mr. Wombat's body.

Late last night, WoF herself was found. While the murder had no element of fanciness and flourish the murderer is known for by now, but was instead just stabbed to death, the police were still able to discover a connection. The knowledge of who WoF followed that fateful night left no doubt of the identity of the killer.

After a chase through the city, the police was finally able to arrest Mr. Stupot in the early hours of the morning.

A spokesperson of the police confirmed that irrefutable, mostly in the form of weird games and paraphernalia was found in Mr. Stupot's house.

At the loss of one of our own, we can give the public the all-clear: the Adventurer's Murderer is finally caught.


--------------------

Votes:

Riaise: Stupot
Mandle: Riaise Stupot Riaise Stupot
Stupot: Riaise
josiah1221: Riaise Stupot

This is a 3 to 1 vote against Stupot, who is thereby lynched. Congratulations, he was the Murderer.

Players:

Spoiler

VampireWombat â€" shot out of a cannon in Night 1 (Civilian)
Mandle - survived (Civilian)
Riaise - survived (Psychic)
Stupot - arrested (Murderer)
josiah1221 â€" survived (Civilian)

[close]

The game ends with a win for the Good Side. Well done.

First, Mandle and everyone, you have no idea how annoyed I am with myself: Mandle was correct with the whole Civilian thing. I messed up. The name change was supposed to be in the start post for Day 1 but I edited stuff and it disappeared. Once I realized this, it was already too late to remedy the situation. I could either stop and restart the game or let it run with an unintentional disadvantage for the bad side. I hope it was an interesting game nonetheless.

----------

The information that a Psychics last scan is revealed is not just in the wall text with all the rules, it is also in the Changes from the last rounds section, which should be read by absolutely everyone, even people who have played in all games before. To quote myself:

Quotea Psychic's last scan will automatically be added to their last words by the GM in case they get killed during the Night, as was discussed after the last game.

Please read the rules carefully. And even if you skip most of the rule post, the Changes section is essential.

----------

Quote from: StupotI was actually wondering if none of us are the murderer, or even sinitrena herself, but that would be very devious. Good experiment though.

I considered this option when I set the game up. I operate under the condition that everyone is allowed to lie in this games with one exception: The Game Master. So unfortunately, that prevented me from doing this little experiment.

----------

Interest in the game seems to be dwindling. I probably won't start a new game anytime soon.

Good played.  (nod) (laugh)

Thanks for the game, Sinitrena! I liked how the opening/closing phases were in the form of newspaper articles, that was a nice touch. And don't worry about the civilian thing. It all worked out in the end. ;-D

Well, there you have it. I'm not nearly as sneaky as everyone seemed to give me credit for. (laugh) I'm glad Mandle and Josiah believed me in the end, I'm not sure what else I could have done if they hadn't changed their minds.

Good game everyone. I'm actually a little relieved Riaise caught me out on the ‘psychics last scan' thing. When it was looking like Josiah and Mandle might lynch her, I was feeling quite guilty rather than happy. I think because I'd had the advantage of the time difference to twist their minds before she woke up. When I managed to explain my contradiction and get them to change their votes I actually emailed Sinitrena “I am going to hell” but in the end justice won out.

Regarding why I chose to kill Wombat, it wasn't so much a choice as a pained realization that I was screwed whatever happened.
(I live-streamed my pained thoughts into my PM to poor Sinitrena who couldn't do anything with it. )

Spoiler

Quote from: Stupot on Tue 23/07/2019 16:39:21
I seriously have no idea who to kill. If Mandle is right about his ‘civilian' theory then Riaise must be the doctor or psychic. I could kill her so they lose that power but then I would just get lynched the next day. And if she is the psychic then she probably already chose to scan me based on Mandle's theory. So basically I'm screwed before it's even begun. If she's the doctor she'll probably protect/heal Mandle because he's been the most vociferous.

As you said I could just not kill anyone tonight, but I seriously think it's already game over. I could take out Mandle, as there's really no reason to take out Josiah and VW as they've not given anything away. That said, Mandle's vocal theorizing could be interpreted as trying to stir things up so perhaps there's the off chance that he could be suspected as being the killer if I left him alive.

Hmmm hmmm I think it's game over but I'm going to go out in a blaze of gory. I will take out....

Man, this is hard... okay. Perhaps taking out Jo or VW would be the most random and least predictable... so...

VampireWombat sorry dude.

[close]

As you can see I really didn't put any thought into how I was going to deal with Day 2, just trying to keep as much element of doubt  as humanly possible (which wasn't much).

Also, in my defense I did actually read the rules, but in the heat of the moment I wasn't really thinking about that when I said I thought scanning Riaise would be a waste of a scan. Remember I wasn't actually the psychic after all. So nice catch Riaise. You deserve the victory for staying cool especially after I threw you under the bus while you were asleep.

Wooohooo!!! I've been so nervously awaiting the outcome and when I saw we were right it was a great feeling!

As for the "Civilian" thing. For me it added a bit of spice to the round to be honest. It was fun to come up with the plan, see others catch onto what I was saying (well spotted VW and Josiah!), and for it to turn out to be correct. I actually didn't know, only suspected, that we Civilians were in only ones who knew what we were called.

I can see why this would annoy Sinitrena, and she was probably cursing me for what I did, but it wasn't a game-killer so I'm glad you didn't stop the round.

If Day One had resulted in the Murderer getting lynched, though, I was going to suggest we just reshuffle roles and restart: No real harm done.

In the end, though, it kind of worked out nicely:

It sped the round up, sure, but it still came down to an agonizing choice on Day Two which was very exciting and terrifying.

A very memorable round I feel!

Long live the Civilians!

Thank you Sinitrena for being, as always, a sensible and professional host! The newspaper articles were awesome!

I guess I won't haunt Stupot or something...

As for the civilian thing, I didn't even think about it when I said I was just a powerless civilian. There's probably about an equal chance I could have said peon, servant, or something else suggesting no power. So it's good to note the significance of details, even if you don't know you're giving a detail.

Oh wow, great game guys! That really was a nerve racking Day 2  8-0 As for Mandle catching on to "civilian". When I first used the word in my post I had forgotten this was a secret round and that the others wouldn't have known what we were really called. So good catch Mandle, but as you said even still the choice between Riaise and Stupot in the end was a tough one. I came very close to changing my vote back to Riaise, good thing I didn't second guess myself. Last time I did that I got Stupot killed... Well... I got him killed again anyway. But at least this time he was guilty!  (laugh) As always thank you Sinitrena! You always make these rounds so much more interesting and entertaining with your amazing story telling. I hate that more people aren't interested. I'm already ready for another round! ;)

Great game guys! Very exciting, even from a spectator's point of view. Well played :)

A little something I wanted to comment on, but obviously couldn't while the game was still in progress:

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 24/07/2019 15:38:39
Sorry Riaise, your case is very compelling but I feel thou dost protest too much.

Says the person who beat the forum post per minute record last time they were innocently accused :D

Hahahaha! True that!

Ha, I'd forgotten about that! (laugh)

Kastchey and Cassie and other spectators. I'm interested to know whether you guys had any opinions about who was the murderer or psychic while the game was ongoing? Did anyone think I was innocent or were you all shouting at your monitors for them to lynch me?

Interesting question. How do outsiders see all this. Because I know all the roles at all times, I never quiet get which impression people leave with their posts.

I can tell you that I was screaming in my head at you, Stupot, during the Night Phase not to kill Riaise because then you would have had basically no chance to win.

And I kind of hoped for a split vote on Day 2, which would have meant no lynching and then it would have become a really nerve-racking game...

Quote from: Sinitrena on Sat 27/07/2019 14:10:04
And I kind of hoped for a split vote on Day 2, which would have meant no lynching and then it would have become a really nerve-racking game...

I was considering actually trying to cause that to happen at the last moment, but kind of forgot and the timing of RL also didn't allow it.

But that could have been awesome!

I wonder who I would have killed if it had gone to a 2nd night. I hadn't thought that far ahead. I was too busy trying to convince even myself that I was the psychic.

Quote from: Stupot on Sat 27/07/2019 14:52:37
I wonder who I would have killed if it had gone to a 2nd night. I hadn't thought that far ahead. I was too busy trying to convince even myself that I was the psychic.

Me, I'd say.

Quote from: Stupot on Sat 27/07/2019 13:56:18
Kastchey and Cassie and other spectators. I'm interested to know whether you guys had any opinions about who was the murderer or psychic while the game was ongoing? Did anyone think I was innocent or were you all shouting at your monitors for them to lynch me?

Sorry for being slow with responding, busy time...
(which is mainly why I decided not to join this round)
(other than being a chicken)

It wasn't obvious at all. There were moments when I too thought that Riaise was being a sneaky murderer. However when I looked at how you worded your post in this round, Stu, and it struck me as closer to how you were acting two rounds back when we both were on the scum team than three rounds back when you were in innocently accused seer. As a murderer, you seem to tend to use more thought-out sentences, less brief than usual and I think less emotional, too.

Of course, this wasn't much as there were only two games to study so this could have as well been a coincidence. And you got out of the self-contradiction trap pretty well, it was believable. Plus I haven't seen Riaise in scum role before. As a non-participant I cannot tell for certain what my lynch vote would have been had I participated, it always looks more simple in hindsight...

By the way, I too can understand why Sini thinks she had messed up with that civilian thing and how it tipped the balanced in the good team's favour but overall it played out REALLY well :) Super interesting and very unusual.

Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 25/07/2019 17:13:36

Quote from: StupotI was actually wondering if none of us are the murderer, or even sinitrena herself, but that would be very devious. Good experiment though.

I considered this option when I set the game up. I operate under the condition that everyone is allowed to lie in this games with one exception: The Game Master. So unfortunately, that prevented me from doing this little experiment.

The way I see it is that you would not technically lie. The only thing you explicitly said was that the roles were unknown and would not be revealed during the course of the game. Unless I'm missing something, that would have been a valid move ;) Somewhat evil perhaps, but still.

Quote from: Kastchey on Tue 30/07/2019 21:04:19

Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 25/07/2019 17:13:36

Quote from: StupotI was actually wondering if none of us are the murderer, or even sinitrena herself, but that would be very devious. Good experiment though.

I considered this option when I set the game up. I operate under the condition that everyone is allowed to lie in this games with one exception: The Game Master. So unfortunately, that prevented me from doing this little experiment.

The way I see it is that you would not technically lie. The only thing you explicitly said was that the roles were unknown and would not be revealed during the course of the game. Unless I'm missing something, that would have been a valid move ;) Somewhat evil perhaps, but still.

The problem with that are the win condition set out in the very first post:

QuoteThe Good Side wins when all Evil players are dead.
The Evil Side wins when it is no longer possible to get a majority lynch vote against them.

Without an actual (player-)murderer, it is either in immediated default win for the Good Side (at the start of the game all Evil Players are already dead) or impossible for them to win (the Evil Player is also the GM, but the GM cannot be lynched). So, to allow the game to run with an "Evil GM" would make the win conditions a lie.

oh, I missed Stupots post entirely.  :-[

Well, I had no idea who was actually the murder, but don't I would have been convinced by your explanation for the contradictions. I as an spectator, I hadn't caught the "civilian" thing either, so I didn't get why anyone would not claim to be civilian.  (laugh)