Adventure Game Studio

So yeah.

I suppose I'm not the only one whose experience of the COVID-19 pandemic feels slightly surreal. Something we've been hearing about for months, but very far away, gradually spreading and coming nearer and nearer (I remember following the news over the last few weeks… OK, it's in Korea, on Tenerife, in Italy, in Finland, in Norway… in the local school), with people only slowly starting to take it seriously. Until things start to move very rapidly and we're all on lockdown.

The streets are so quiet now, with most people working from home and with restaurants, movie theaters, gyms, libraries and other public gathering places closed. Some store shelves are empty (though the panic-buying appears to have abated). So many little ways in which we take precautions. On buses, the space around the driver is cordoned off. People struggle to break habits to shake hands or hug. I stopped at a gas/charging station to charge my car, and an attendant was wiping down the charging handles and touch screens with disinfectant; inside, all the pastries were bagged up, and if you wanted a hot dog you couldn't help yourself to ketchup and mustard, they were placed behind the counter. Life goes on for most of us, but just not quite as normal.

I hope you're all staying healthy. If you're in isolation, quarantine or just "self-isolating," it's a good time to play some AGS games, eh?

Or create some AGS Games! :-D

But yes, you are right. I am one of those lucky bastards that can stay at home for long periods of time without worrying about if i can pay the bills or not..But still you got to get those groceries, i suppose :shocked:
You've buckled up those tincans?  :-\
So many "we are going to die" people on my facebook, keep bumping that one up. Was so long ago i ate that kind of food, but if there's any time for it. I guess it's now! (laugh)

I have been sent home from work for the next few weeks with the responsibility of keeping myself safe and well so I can come in to replace anyone who gets sick. I'm basically being paid to stay at home and shutter myself in. It's left me with a lot of free time, since I can't really go out socialising or anything like that. I will no doubt be using some of that time to practice developing with AGS, but I really wish it was under better circumstances.

I would urge people to use reputable news sources when it comes to gathering information on the virus, as I have seen a lot of misinformation being spread... especially on social media. It's very easy to see emotionally-targeted headlines or photos and start feeling the panic set in, so going to trusted news outlets to get accurate information from credible experts can help keep the facts straight in your head and certainly helps me feel less panicked. (I recommend the Reuters news service, they are an international news organisation which is not tied to any individual country or political ideology, they cross-reference everything they post and make multiple revisions on articles as the information changes, and they are consistently rated as the least-biased news source under independent review.)

My country has closed all schools, universities, and childcare facilities for the next two weeks, and it caused a sudden rush of crowds heading to the grocery stores to stockpile supplies. When I went to the shops after the announcement there were lots of empty shelves. At no point was it suggested that any food or supplies in general would become short, the only changes were that the education institutes would close, but people jumped to conclusions and raced out to buy far more than they need, depriving others of the essential items like bread, milk, eggs, toilet paper, etc. The supermarkets have plenty of supplies in the warehouses, the stores are all completely re-stocked already! No need for anyone to stockpile.

I could talk about this all day, but I'll finish up by saying that escapism is very important in situations like this. Sure, stay on top of the major announcements and events, but you need to switch off your brain too so that you don't get overwhelmed. So lose yourself in a good book, binge watch that series that you've been meaning to get around to, or dive into playing (or creating) a new game and follow another character's story for a while. This world is tough to handle at the moment, there's nothing wrong with wrapping yourself up in another one for a while.

I'm in Gran Canaria spending a few days with my mom and even though things here are really calm and under control, I've decided to cut my trip short and return to Berlin tomorrow morning in case of overnight border closings, flight restrictions, etc. My office is closed and we're to work from home for the next 15 days or so. I'm used to spending lots of time at home (introverts unite! But far from each other!) so this won't be an issue for me, but I'm concerned about all the asshole Hamsterkäufer leaving the rest of us without any supplies. Germany is reacting super slow though (Berlin clubs are being closed on Tuesday instead of right now because god forbid that people have their weekend ruined!), so let's see how this whole thing develops... (roll)

By the way, isn't "global pandemic" a pleonasm? :-D

It's the same over here JackPutter, they even decided to use the excuse to close the border today until then 13th april.  (roll) Of course, if you're a national or driving a truck in/out with supplies you still can cross the border... just turists can't. Considering that the 1st that tested positive here was a danish journalist that returned from a conference in Germany, I don't see how stopping tourists only will help anything. They're likely not the ones going to visit sick relatives in the hospital or the ones in a resting home.  (roll)

My husband was shopping this morning, like he does every Saturday morning, where we get milk and fresh bread. No fresh bread cause of the virus, and no milk cause of the hoarders... and then one other costumer was complaining about how bad it was that there was no milk and yadda yadda, and finished with "It's good I bought 15 liters yesterday!"  8-0 My husband felt like hitting him.  :-\

PS - This is not the pasteurized milk that can hold a month or more, but the kind that can hold about a week...

I think it's a good occasion for someone to write a new "Decameron" of XXI century.

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Sat 14/03/2020 15:51:25
I think it's a good occasion for someone to write a new "Decameron" of XXI century.

That would be awesome, but nowadays it would basically be a compilation of "the best 100 coronavirus tweets" or something :-D

Has anybody watched Buñuel's "The exterminating Angel"? I think I'm going to give it a re-watch one of these days. SO GOOD, and so fitting right now.

Italia is off-limits, how boring.

_

Welp, our Prime Minister just appeared on TV to announce a battery of measures to put Spain on lockdown, pretty much the same as Italy. Which country will be next?

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Sat 14/03/2020 15:51:25
I think it's a good occasion for someone to write a new "Decameron" of XXI century.

As gatherings are prohibited in Italy at the moment, it'll be difficult for the ten narrators to escape the city for the countryside this time, to pass the time with tales and games. ;)

QuoteWelp, our Prime Minister just appeared on TV to announce a battery of measures to put Spain on lockdown, pretty much the same as Italy. Which country will be next?

Poland has been in a complete lockdown for last couple of days. There were even attempts to lock down specific regions. Also, any public gatherings of more than 50 people are forbidden and cinemas, schools, unis, museums, shopping malls and the like are closed down. 

Everything is fine in Britain. Thanks to Brexit, we're too plucky and independent to be affected by things happening in the real world.

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sat 14/03/2020 13:33:28
I'm concerned about all the asshole Hamsterkäufer leaving the rest of us without any supplies.

Yes, that is annoying. Two days ago when I went to buy groceries, it was quite crowded and most of the people jam-packed their shopping carts. A few days before that I couldn't get any toiletpaper.

Quote
Germany is reacting super slow though (Berlin clubs are being closed on Tuesday instead of right now because god forbid that people have their weekend ruined!), so let's see how this whole thing develops... (roll)

Well, as of yesterday evening bars and clubs are being closed in Berlin and any event with more than 50 people is prohibited.

Lightly considering getting out of Japan and heading back to Australia at the moment. Very likely Japan will do a lockdown soon, and I'd rather be in a place with at least wide open spaces and nice scenery when society goes completely nuts.

Quote

QuoteI'm concerned about all the asshole Hamsterkäufer leaving the rest of us without any supplies.

Yes, that is annoying. Two days ago when I went to buy groceries, it was quite crowded and most of the people jam-packed their shopping carts. A few days before that I couldn't get any toiletpaper.

It's getting a little crazy here too. Friday the supermarket where I usually go was packed.

Nurseries, schools and universities are closed. All gatherings with more than 100 people are forbidden.

Quote from: Matti on Sun 15/03/2020 10:02:39

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sat 14/03/2020 13:33:28
I'm concerned about all the asshole Hamsterkäufer leaving the rest of us without any supplies.

Yes, that is annoying. Two days ago when I went to buy groceries, it was quite crowded and most of the people jam-packed their shopping carts. A few days before that I couldn't get any toiletpaper.

Quote
Germany is reacting super slow though (Berlin clubs are being closed on Tuesday instead of right now because god forbid that people have their weekend ruined!), so let's see how this whole thing develops... (roll)

Well, as of yesterday evening bars and clubs are being closed in Berlin and any event with more than 50 people is prohibited.

Yeah, and parks are still full of people and there has been no attempt whatsoever at keeping people at home, unless I've missed something in the last few hours. Self-isolation is still entirely optional as far as I know. And restaurants are still open.

I've also heard (and take this with a grain of salt, as with any through-the-grapevine info) that the number of deaths reported in Germany is so much lower than in other countries because it's considered that if you had a pre-existing condition and you catch coronavirus and die, your death is counted as being caused by your condition and not from the virus. Might be not be true, but seeing how little effort people around me are showing to even avoid contact with others, I don't really see many other reasons to explain the fact that out of over 5k reported cases and NO self isolation measures in place, somehow magically there have been only 9 deaths, especially considering Germany's massive senior population (senior care centers are still open and admitting visitors, right? Not 100% sure about that one.)

Something is going on here, and it smells like information manipulation at its finest.

Whatever the truth might be about the real numbers, I'd point out that people who are not actually in isolation (those who are sick or have a confirmed infection), but are either in quarantine (because they may have been exposed) or practicing "social distancing" don't have to stay indoors at home all the time.

As long as you can avoid coming in close contact with people you don't live with (ideally keeping a 2m distance) and you practice good hygiene (washing hands thoroughly before you go out and when you come back, avoid touching surfaces that others touch), it's fine to leave the house and for example go to the park.

Quote from: Snarky on Sun 15/03/2020 13:00:48
Whatever the truth might be about the real numbers, I'd point out that people who are not actually in isolation (those who are sick or have a confirmed infection), but are either in quarantine (because they may have been exposed) or practicing "social distancing" don't have to stay indoors at home all the time.

Maybe that's the case where you live, but in Spain, the State of Alert (a less restrictive version of the State of Emergency) was declared yesterday and among other things, staying at home is mandatory for the whole population with a few explicit exceptions. I'm not fucking around when I say "lockdown".

Full text here (https://www.boe.es/boe/dias/2020/03/14/pdfs/BOE-A-2020-3692.pdf), and relevant section here, if you can read Spanish:

QuoteArtículo 7. Limitación de la libertad de circulación de las personas.
1. Durante la vigencia del estado de alarma las personas únicamente podrán
circular por las vías de uso público para la realización de las siguientes actividades:
a) Adquisición de alimentos, productos farmacéuticos y de primera necesidad.
b) Asistencia a centros, servicios y establecimientos sanitarios.
c) Desplazamiento al lugar de trabajo para efectuar su prestación laboral,
profesional o empresarial.
d) Retorno al lugar de residencia habitual.
e) Asistencia y cuidado a mayores, menores, dependientes, personas con
discapacidad o personas especialmente vulnerables.
f) Desplazamiento a entidades financieras y de seguros.
g) Por causa de fuerza mayor o situación de necesidad.
h) Cualquier otra actividad de análoga naturaleza que habrá de hacerse
individualmente, salvo que se acompañe a personas con discapacidad o por otra causa
justificada.

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sun 15/03/2020 12:14:58
I've also heard (and take this with a grain of salt, as with any through-the-grapevine info) that the number of deaths reported in Germany is so much lower than in other countries because it's considered that if you had a pre-existing condition and you catch coronavirus and die, your death is counted as being caused by your condition and not from the virus.

I think it mainly depends on who is being tested and who isn't. In Italy there are a lot of post-mortem-tests and people who had the virus but also other (lethal) conditions have been counted as corona-related deaths. In Germany it's different and a lot more younger (living) people have been tested.

The mortality rate differs a lot between countries. In Germany it's quite low, in Italy it's very high. In China there's a big difference between Hubei (where the virus originated) and the rest of the country, which leads scientists to believe that the virus might have mutated, and that there's a more aggressive and a less aggressive one. But it's all speculation and there isn't enough data.

The estimated number of unreported cases of corona infections is totally unknown too and probably varies a lot between countries. I think it's more about the missing knowledge about the virus and the insufficiently and differently exercised testing of people, rather than misinformation.

Thanks Laura, I'd forgotten that. Lots of differences in approach between countries, it will be very interesting to compare the outcomes. At the very least, it seems likely that we'll learn a lot from this outbreak about how to stem any future pandemics.

Let's see how many of us are still alive and healthy in 6 months..

It's totally crazy here right now, almost a complete lockdown. From tomorrow on, you are only allowed to go shopping food, or to work, or on a walk if you are alone and it is really necessary (how do you define if a walk is necessary?). All shops (except supermarkets) and restaurants will be closed.

Some measures I think are okay, like isolating infected or exposed people, closing schools, no gatherings with more than 100 people, forbidding visitors in hospitals etc. I also have no problem working from home. But not allowing to go outside?
They lock down kindergartens but provide some emergency care if parents need to work but ask to use this only if really necessary. I would have agreed with that, but at the same time they close all playgrounds, with police patrol and fines and stuff. What shall I do with my kid? I will not accept such grave restrictions of basic rights and send her to emergency kindergarten (as long as this is still possible).

Worst thing is: they now say this is for two weeks, but realistically, what will be different in two weeks? There will still be no medicine or vaccine so what then? Shut down life till the end of the year?

I am not afraid of the virus (even though I'm in a special health situation myself now), but I'm afraid of turning into police state and loss of basic rights.

Here in UAE gov sector we're all at home. People are taking it seriously, but we're far from the panicky scenes you see in some other countries. I hate to say it because I know these times are trying for so many people, but I have really been enjoying the down time so far. I'm up at 5:00 most mornings and getting loads of work done on private projects I thought I wouldn't have time to touch in 2020, plus also spending lots of time with my wife and son. We catch a Netflix family movie together every afternoon. The running joke is whether dad (me) can stay awake through the whole movie. (laugh) Dinner is always an experimental affair as we try to use up whatever ingredients we have to limit trips to the supermarket. I can't remember when we last had so much time to do pretty much nothing together. It's been great!

My wife's Chinese, and we've been told the kids in her area of China are going to be back at school soon, so...I hope the wave of relief will slowly be making its way westward over the coming months.

Quote from: cat on Sun 15/03/2020 14:55:13
Worst thing is: they now say this is for two weeks, but realistically, what will be different in two weeks?

Here in Japan they are also saying "two weeks" for most closures, but also adding "unless an extension is needed"...

I think the government is doing a bit of psychology here where people won't panic too much if they think it's just two weeks, and then extend it two weeks at a time until people catch on and panic, and then it's National Guard time.

You know they keep throwing this death statistics and all, but I would like them to also mention how many people died of "normal" flu in the same period.  (roll) That would be some thing I could relate to and maybe get people to panic less and realize that, covid-19 or no covid-19, we should just keep certain rules to minimize spreading sickness to those that are already weak.
The gov today announced that they "may" forbid people from going out... if they do they'll just give the hoarders a reason to keep hoarding... as they'll be "Ah! Glad I bought all that stuff when I did and not listen to the gov."  (roll)

I'm just glad it's not Ebola, to be honest, the way it's going it would wipe the planet of people in a flash.  8-0

This virus is far deadlier than flu already and we haven't seen much of it yet as it has barely started spreading. The only reason why flu's death toll, in raw numbers, is higher is because flu is everywhere and has been for ages.

Quote from: cat on Sun 15/03/2020 14:55:13
Worst thing is: they now say this is for two weeks, but realistically, what will be different in two weeks? There will still be no medicine or vaccine so what then? Shut down life till the end of the year?

No, there will not be a cure in two weeks, but that's not the point. The whole point of the two-week quarantine is to slow down its growth, stagger the contagions and try to avoid everybody getting infected at the exact same time so that health services don't collapse, which is what's happened in Madrid or the north of Italy, for example. If you stay home then you're no longer a vector for contagion, and the avalanche will turn into a steady trickle that will be way more manageable. That is the most urgent objective right now.

This Washington Post article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/) has some nice simulations that you can run in your own browser and that show the rationale behind the lockdown. There isn't any (mandatory) paywall, but Europeans must jump through some stupid hoops because of GDPR.

That's true, Laura, but as far as I can tell it's also true that it will take a lot more than two weeks for that strategy to work. (And I'm seeing some talk that we might be in for months of this.)

If you keep the restrictions in place for two weeks and successfully stem the epidemic so that only a relatively small number of people are infected, then lift them and let things go back to normal, you're back pretty much where you started, and the epidemic will just begin to peak again. It doesn't solve the peak overload problem unless you keep it up until the peak has passed (or at least until a significant proportion of the population have already had the virus and recovered, becoming immune)â€"and since the whole point of the strategy is to slow it down, it also means it will take longer for that point to come.

Of course, buying time is not something to sneeze at (pandemic pun!): it lets you ramp up treatment capacity (though unlike China, we probably can't build new hospitals in ten days), maybe learn about better treatments, and might mean that healthcare workers who were infected can return to work, immune. (It also gives the people who are going to die a few weeks more to live, which is nice.) But maybe more importantly, in two weeks we will know a lot more: maybe COVID-19 is not as bad as we thought after all, and we can relax these measures. Or maybe it becomes clear that it is really bad, and the public is more prepared to accept some tough choices.

Quote from: cat on Sun 15/03/2020 14:55:13
I am not afraid of the virus (even though I'm in a special health situation myself now), but I'm afraid of turning into police state and loss of basic rights.

Same.  This is what really scares me.

Snarky, I definitely agree that the two week mark is not a magic bullet, but like you say, it might be what we need to gather our wits and resources and be better prepared to tackle whatever's in store ahead. It's not that I'm not concerned that we'll have to learn to live with these restrictions for say, another month or two, but right now I think a unity of purpose and a willingness to accept these sacrifices is really important for overall morale and to avoid descending into chaos. That's basically my rationale for supporting the imposition of stricter measures at first, rather than going with a more relaxed approach. But in the end, it's going to be a waiting game and like a body undergoing chemotherapy for cancer, we need to hope that the virus cracks before we do, if that makes sense.

Quote from: Snarky on Sun 15/03/2020 23:55:34
and might mean that healthcare workers who were infected can return to work, immune

Not just immune, but also in a better mental state... They're probably the ones having it worst of all right now and anything we can do to relieve their ordeal is incredibly important :(

I heard some news recently that more than thirty thousand American soldiers landed in Europe for a military exercise, they said that they are here "to defend Europe from a possible invasion". All of this is supposed to be called "Defender Europe 20". Now although that Europe is still an area of contagion, they have seen themselves disembarking without protective masks or any kind of protections. That is, we must use protective masks and stay at home as much as possible while there are soldiers throughout Europe doing their exercise. I think they are referring to the supposedly imminent invasion of Russia in Europe? Although our planet is really going through catastrophic times these people are still here waging war on each other.

EDIT: Here's (https://ilmanifesto.it/30mila-soldati-dagli-usa-in-europa-senza-mascherina/) where I read such news, it's a popular newspaper in Italy. I wouldn't like to spread any political conspiracy theories so if a moderator feels like I am braking some forum rules please feel free to delete this post.

Sounds real enough: https://www.eur.army.mil/DefenderEurope/

That they aren't wearing masks shouldn't be a problem as long as nobody of them has caught the virus.

Thanks for the link to the source, Vincent!

Well, this is a NATO exercise years in the planning that has been ongoing since Februaryâ€"it's going to be difficult to just cancel on a dime. (And BTW, this type of exercise is not in response to fears of "imminent invasion," but general strategic deterrence and training in the face of a perceived long-term threat.)

The US has announced (https://shape.nato.int/defender-europe/defender/newsroom/defendereurope-20-health-and-welfare-are-priority) that it will reduce the number of troops involved and are taking precautions to reduce risk of transmission. There are also reports that parts of the exercise involving troop movements have been canceled. I would be very surprised if the "free concerts" mentioned in the article go ahead, too. As countries' responses are evolving quickly, I would not assume that the plans from last week or the week before are still going to go ahead. Edit: If I were a military commander, I'd say that unexpected things and epidemics can happen in war, and you have to respond quickly. So turn that into a part of the exercise, a new success criterion: the goal is now to contain the spread of the disease while remaining operational.

One can of course debate whether the steps they're taking are enough given the situation, and be critical of military exercises in general (and it would almost be disappointing if il manifesto, quotidiano comunista didn't take that position), but it also appears that this narrative is being promoted in part by Russian propaganda outlets as a way to sow distrust of NATO.

I must pre-face this post with an apology, for it is quite long. Many of my reflections on the matter tumbled out as I sat down to write it.

Reporting from Sweden, I can say that it is quite odd. It is generally business as usual, but there are a lot less people out. There has been some scattered panic buying, but the shelves are filling back up at a re-assuring pace. The only thing I notice (besides the newspapers, of course) is a marked lack of customers at work.

Now, Swedish authorities seem to shadow Great Britain's herd immunity method, thus avoiding measures such as lock-downs and quarantines and closing borders. Schools remain mostly open, although under watch. This remain contentious, but it is done, we are assured, to ensure that disadvantaged children, with no-where else to go but school, are not left to fend for themselves, and to keep their parents at work. Everyone is, of course, urged to wash their hands, maintain a safe distance and self-isolate if necessary. Congragations exceeding five-hundred attendants are also forbidden; although sticking to 499 instead is considered rather poor form. Large sums of money are set aside to aid businesses affected by the outbreak. Indeed, a special forfeiture fee has been attatched, to ensure that the banks do spend this stimulus as intended.

This method is a very hard sell, as it were, in a world that seems at a state of total war upon the sickness. It most certainly was to me.

I thought it was merely complacency and inaction on the part of the authorities; people appointed to positions they are not fit for, who are more concerned to not threaten political sacred cows. 'They do not dare touch their precious open borders!', I sneered. 'They are obfuscating the numbers on purpose!', I huffed. 'Why is action anathema to these people, who are they working for!', I wondered.

I have since changed my mind. I have come to rather appreciate their stance, and their determination to keep everyday life in motion at almost any cost. In fact, I admire it. It is bold, calculated and cold as ice. It keeps a sense of proportion, that while it is a dangerous disease, it is not a death sentence. We are not at war. No one is being dug out of the rubble of a bombed house, no ships are going under in blazing oil slicks. Telephones work, water comes out of the tap, and that precious bog-roll is still rolling out of the factories.
There is, however, the question of honesty. What they are doing is taking a significant risks, partly for the sake of ideals. It is not the first time that Swedish authorities nor her political bodies do that, but it is greatly reflected now, in the Corona Scare.
To speak bluntly, people will die. Many of the likely victims are in geriatric and palliative care and thus already close to death, but quite a few who will die would have had more time in this world if measures against the epidemic had been stricter. While children that are known to be sick and weakly are no doubt quarantined as necessary by their parents, I am most certain that some children may become severely ill or die as a result of the decision to keep the schools open.
The authorities must consider these losses as acceptable. I wish they would dare say so. They seem prepared to do whatever it takes to maintain a sense of normality, and I admire that. However, they seem much less keen to taking responsibility for it. One shudders to imagine if they are wrong, if herd immunity will not work...

As for me? I remain vigilant, of course, for the sake of the infirm and the eldery as much as my own, but maintain an ordinary life. I have a war supply of provisions, but it remains untouched, and I doubt I will have to go hungry or cold or without tobacco. I put my life in God's hands every day, but I have done so for all my life, and I think that, on the whole, it is about as safe as it ever was.

Be safe, everyone. There will be a tomorrow, and we will make it through to see each other then.

EDIT: On the matter of the NATO exercise; Snarky is no doubt correct. It is difficult to cancel these appointments, and regular exercises are important. Indeed, maintaining the ordinary functions of the military in times of crisis is vital. An invasion or an attack, as utterly hypothetical such a beast is at the moment, would be quite catastrophic at a time like this. The military is one of those services that simply must work, epidemic or not, and I imagine the Pentagon would agree. Of course, soldiers are generally young and fit, and with the epidemic ongoing, I imagine that they are well supervised. Not to mention, having what appears to be a divison worth of troops prepared if civil order breaks down due to the epidemic would be very handy.

Today a medical appointment I was supposed to have this week was cancelled because they had to close the practice at least for the week. I was promised that I will get a new appointment as soon as they can open again. However, the examination should be done within the next two weeks and it is not sure that they will open by then.
The crazy thing is, at the moment, there are less than 300 infected people in our area with a population of about 3.5 million. Of course, infections will increase within the next weeks - will they then be allowed to open the practice again and do my examination?  :-\

Complete panic here at the moment...

I wonder if there is an (AGS) adventure game that would fit the current reported events.

I've seen a lot of people talk about how Shardlight basically predicted this situation.

Quote from: Ali on Sat 14/03/2020 23:24:05
Everything is fine in Britain. Thanks to Brexit, we're too plucky and independent to be affected by things happening in the real world.

I know right?
Everyone's been carrying on like normal here.
And it seems like the panic-buyers here think that supermarkets are the only stores that exist.
So it's been life as normal for me.

Quote from: dactylopus on Mon 16/03/2020 05:13:42

Quote from: cat on Sun 15/03/2020 14:55:13
I am not afraid of the virus (even though I'm in a special health situation myself now), but I'm afraid of turning into police state and loss of basic rights.

Same.  This is what really scares me.

What scares me is the potential death of my loved ones. I know more than a few people who are almost certainly going to die if they catch it.
I'll be fine (at least, I should be), my grandparents though...  that scares me.  :~(

This entire thing is just surreal. My city was hit by some tornadoes a few weeks ago. The schools were shut down for a few days as a result. We went back to work for all of three days before they closed the schools again due to pandemic panic. I'm into my second week off now. Fifteen minutes ago, the superintendent sent out a call to all the parents and employees saying that the schools are closed until April.

I've never seen anything like this. So strange.   :undecided:

For me as a semi-professional shut-in everything is the same as always.

Everything's locking down in NY state...just had the first confirmed case in my Onondaga County, and I'm nervous about my sore throat/exhaustion/headache, although it's probably stress based.

All my friends are equally freaked out and trying to stay calm and positive.  Mostly we're all just nervous about not being able to work and get paid.

The stores are spooky right now...so many things gone, Americans panic-buying toilet paper, canned goods, meds and water.  It feels...shameful?...when you shop, like even if you legitimately need something, you're depriving someone else.  People are scuttling around and not looking at each other.

On the plus side, like others said, more time to make AGS games! :)  And my DND nerd friends are planning to play by webcam since we can't get together.  I'm also exploring making a comedy podcast about a world repeatedly hit by apocalypses.

I hope you're all doing great, staying healthy and calm, and loving your neighbors from six feet or more.  :grin:

Quote from: PlayPretend on Mon 16/03/2020 22:48:05
I'm also exploring making a comedy podcast about a world repeatedly hit by apocalypses.

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/cdc-warns-against-starting-podcasts-while-quarantined/

“We ask all Americans to stay vigilant and resist the temptation to unleash something on our population much, much worse than the virus itself.”

Sorry, couldn't help it :-D

Finland just declared its first real actions yesterday, and we're enacting some emergency laws in the near future, for sake of readiness.

We're not testing people for the disease, so Finland is not reporting any meaningful numbers to indicate spread of the Wuhan virus at this time. Only people with severe symptoms will be tested to confirm a preliminary diagnosis, and all non-essential care in hospitals is being postponed.

Some of the measures decided by the Government, effective as of today, active until 14th of April unless new guidelines are set before then:

- Early childhood education and care units and the pre-primary education organised in connection with them will be kept in operation.
- The premises of schools will be closed down.
- Public gatherings are limited to no more than ten persons.
- Preparations will be launched for the closure of Finland’s borders without delay in accordance with international obligations.
- Passenger transport to Finland will be suspended as soon as possible, with the exception of the return of Finnish citizens and persons residing in Finland.
- Finnish citizens and persons residing in Finland must not travel abroad. Finnish tourists abroad are advised to return to Finland immediately.
- Finns and permanent residents in Finland returning from abroad will be placed in quarantine-like conditions for two weeks.
- Persons returning from abroad must agree on the date of their return to work after a two-week period of absence together with their employer

As for myself, I bought 3+ weeks of foodstuffs so I can comfortably wait out the first phase of all this. Got a bunch of flour, dry yeast, sugar and salt so I can make more bread as the store bought stuff will go bad or run out.
We got instructed to work from home anyway, so I'm holed up in my home now.

...which is pretty much the normal state of affairs for me anyway.

Lol, awesome. :) I already saw a couple spring up too, they're like mushrooms! 🍄☁️

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Tue 17/03/2020 07:13:20

Quote from: PlayPretend on Mon 16/03/2020 22:48:05
I'm also exploring making a comedy podcast about a world repeatedly hit by apocalypses.

https://thehardtimes.net/culture/cdc-warns-against-starting-podcasts-while-quarantined/

“We ask all Americans to stay vigilant and resist the temptation to unleash something on our population much, much worse than the virus itself.”

Sorry, couldn't help it :-D

Yeah, that's pretty funny. I particularly liked the end:

QuoteThe CDC concluded the address by reminding citizens that they have their own podcast where they break down pandemics throughout the centuries, and to use the promo code “CDC” to get 15% off a purchase of Casper Mattresses.

Is there any podcast with sponsoring that isn't sponsored by Casper?

As you might have seen in my working in progress thread (If anyone actually reads my posts there other than CassieBSG lol) you'll see I feel like I have an unknown deadline to finish my game. If something happens to me, it's going to languish on my hard drive or get delayed who knows how long. If I lose a loved one, I'm not going to be wanting to work on it at all. And I really could do with some money coming in, no matter how small!

I really don't get the logic behind this 500 people limit to gatherings.
If I go to an event with 100,000 people there are 500 people around me at any given time.
If I go to an event with 500 people there are 500 people around me at any given time.
There is pretty much no difference.

And those 500 people have another 500 people around them, and those 500 people also have 500 people around them. And so on.

Imagine a forest on fire, and then imagine a small park on fire, with the trees getting set on fire and spreading. Which one is going to be worse?

Yes, the likelihood of infection might not increase for any one person, but for a group of 100,000 it's got to be about 200 times higher than 500?

Stopped by to see if this thread had begun, worried for my old AGS friends. It’s good to read that most seem to be doing fine, very sad about Ghost late last year...
I live in Canada and things started getting a little panicky on Thursday the 12th. I work in a grocery store/supermarket and we got completely caught off guard by a wave of panic buying I’ve never seen in 23yrs doing this work, the shopping only intensified as the weekend went. We are asking everyone to work overtime, some of our team is falling sick (not to Corona though), I’ve been working 14hr days, it’s madness. People are all stocking up for an apocalypse and fear there is no supply, although we get deliveries every couple days we cannot keep up with the volume is all, perhaps in a week everyone will have there homes so jammed with groceries the can begin isolating. We finally got our first huge shipment (4x normal) yesterday, my feet hurt this morning  (laugh) the logistics are very strained, so the stock in the warehouses cannot get to the stores quickly enough. Our shelves are annihilated, but we will not be out of food by any stretch. The varied responses we get from customers regarding limiting purchases are very interesting, most understand when I say think of your neighbours, others flip out and describe some medical condition that requires more than 30 rolls of TP in three days  (wtf)
Schools are closed for the year in every province from what I understand, here you’re current grade is now your final grade. Gatherings of 50  are cancelled, any large event in the next three months is cancelled. Borders are closed to foreigners, except the US border which if closed would severely impact the supply chain etc. The PM is urging citizens to ‘social distance’ and stay home, not to buy more than you need and think of your neighbours (some people are...)
My wife and son will be off, I will have to work a lot in the near future as grocery stores are an essential service. Grocery store workers get exposed to so much sickness in normal times, part of me worries that my coworkers and I will all get sick as we overwork everyone and serve three times the normal customers! (We are cleaning and sanitizing as much as possible)
I hope all of you stay healthy, sorry for the wall of text. This is such a great and diverse community, it’s incredible to come here and read perspectives from around the world.

Quote from: ManicMatt on Wed 18/03/2020 09:24:14
And those 500 people have another 500 people around them, and those 500 people also have 500 people around them. And so on.

Imagine a forest on fire, and then imagine a small park on fire, with the trees getting set on fire and spreading. Which one is going to be worse?

True... I was trying to say that we shouldn't have a ridiculous number like 500 at the limit. It should be much lower.

Oh, I definitely agree with that, 500 is absurd.

Well, they started with 1000... a couple days past and they decided it should be 100... a couple days passed and we're down to 10... soon we'll have to break the families up, in their own house if they're more than 10.  (roll)

Just been to the shop to buy a few groceries, now they have added markings on the floor for the cue lines, 2m apart, that's 4m2 for each costumer. Also the cashier had gloves and they added a plexy glass in front of the cashier. Oh, forgot to buy TP...  (laugh)

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 17/03/2020 14:49:05
Yeah, that's pretty funny. I particularly liked the end:

QuoteThe CDC concluded the address by reminding citizens that they have their own podcast where they break down pandemics throughout the centuries, and to use the promo code “CDC” to get 15% off a purchase of Casper Mattresses.

Is there any podcast with sponsoring that isn't sponsored by Casper?

Yeah, no kidding ~ they seem to be  on every podcast these days. I wish they’d give it a rest. Deep, refreshing rest, in fact, the kind of rest you only get with a quality mattress like Casper.

Is anyone else starting to get jealous of the smug bastards who've already been through a mild case of corona, and are now free to run around anywhere, go to restaurants without worrying about a reservation, fly around the world cheaply, get coughed on by strangers, touch their face with abandon, lick doorknobs, do without toilet paper, turn 90, become immunocompromised and just generally have a blast without a care in the world?

Not really, cause they can't really do all that anyway. Everything is closed, they can't travel and all the restricting still apply to then as well, since they doubtfully get a doctor's attest saying they've had Corona and can't be free to do what they like.

But at least they, hopefully, don't have to worry about catching or infecting anyone with covid-19 any more and can claim they survived it... so a little jealous for that. Now they only have to worry about all the other tons of thousands sickness one can catch.  (laugh)

Quote from: Snarky on Wed 18/03/2020 21:10:52
Is anyone else starting to get jealous of the smug bastards who've already been through a mild case of corona, and are now free to run around anywhere, go to restaurants without worrying about a reservation, fly around the world cheaply, get coughed on by strangers, touch their face with abandon, lick doorknobs, do without toilet paper, turn 90, become immunocompromised and just generally have a blast without a care in the world?

Hahaha well, I'm immunocompromised myself so I try not to lick doorknobs (try) or have people cough on me (too often), but otherwise yeah! Bastards! The Government should conscript these people into becoming like, shabbos goyim, but for folks in quarantine/isolation: running errands, getting medicines, shopping for groceries... THAT would wipe that smug smile from their faces, hah.

Ireland's on the cusp of total lock-down. Everything that's non-essential will be off-limits. Pubs are already closed, theaters and cinemas too, with sporting events and concerts cancelled. Certain retail chains remain open, but this is expected to change fairly quickly. Social distancing is in effect, as well as precautions such as complimentary hand sanitizer and gloves are mandatory in some supermarkets and pharmacies. Public transport is also enforcing social distancing; being told a bus with ten people on it is full remains a strange experience.

Using these methods, we're hoping to slow infections to a manageable rate, rather than prevent infections altogether (which is nigh on impossible). We still haven't been hit with the worst of it, though, having under five hundred confirmed cases. This number is expected to skyrocket into the thousands by this time next week.

Strange times, indeed.

Stay safe, everyone! o/

...

Oh, and fuck those people stockpiling everything they can get their hands on. And double-fuck those profiteering bastards buying up hand sanitizer and reselling it at quadruple the price. :)

I must admit, I got a chuckle out of the news story of the company that makes Corona beer coincidentally launching their new line of drinks "Corona Hard Cider", right at this time with the ad campaign showing cargo boats shipping the stocks all over the world with the tag-line "Coming ashore soon".

Talk about bad timing.

Near lock-down here too (Byzantine Empire/Greece).

It's no fun, but since I actually was ill just before the coronavirus took off, it is in a way convenient for me so as to heal, and not working on some stuff I had to be doing. Though I suppose I'd heal faster if not in the midst of a pandemic  :=

Trouble is, you actually have to physically tie down each citizen into a chair or else they are going to gang up in Corona parties. Which is what has actually happened in Freiburg in Germany whilst only a few kilometres away in Mülhausen in France, ventilators are woefully lacking to fill the demand. So the city had to decree extensive curfews that are in force as of today.

You can't trust humanity to have a smithereen of common sense. Everyone would be able to enjoy a great sunny spring in nature if they wouldn't insist on ganging up when doing it.

Workplace just sent us a questionnaire, asking if we need help shipping stuff from the office to our homes.
We've been given permissions to take desks, laptops, monitors and such to our homes so we have everything we might need to continue working from home.

Good show!

Quote from: WHAM on Fri 20/03/2020 11:37:42
Workplace just sent us a questionnaire, asking if we need help shipping stuff from the office to our homes.
We've been given permissions to take desks, laptops, monitors and such to our homes so we have everything we might need to continue working from home.

Good show!

Wow that's really cool of them. Ship your whole desk home? Sounds like they are banking on this lasting a few months.

Quote from: fernewelten on Fri 20/03/2020 10:53:55
You can't trust humanity to have a smithereen of common sense.

Tell me about it! Police here have been raiding pubs that have been ignoring the government ban! Add this to the collage students arranging "Covid" parties, and it really makes you wonder whether we'd be better off just letting everything go to hell.

The problem isn't letting everyone go to hell, the problem is that they aren't the group at risk. They would likely just get sick for a while and be fine afterwards, but in the time frame infect a hole bunch of people that will possibly die of it.

I say throw them in a cell and let them stay there for 2 weeks. I'm sure that would teach them something... and if not...well, then they would have 2 weeks to "party".  (laugh)

Governments are being too weak. In many countries they have a ban on gatherings and unnecessary travel but no laws to enforce these bans. If there are no consequences then a lot of people are just going to do as they please, especially younger people who have little to fear, as Cassie just mentioned.

This is an important test-run for future, and much worse, pandemics so we should try to get it as correct as we can.

I guess we can also learn from horrible mistakes, but I'd rather not personally.

I think that in the UK they only closed pubs yesterday. That was meaningless - they should have been closed weeks ago. It's highly likely that the total population of infected there will rise faster than in Italy!

This is far dumber, though:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GdlFzfya8Q

Over here they did create fines, if you gather more than 10 you can get a fine for 1500dkk per person, if a business stays open even though they're ordered to stay close, it's 5000dkk fine.
I say these fines aren't high enough, specially for shops.

So far, they have closed and fine one pub, one hair saloon and one vapor coffee shop... in the vapor (sp?) shop they also fined 23 people that were in there...  :-\

This is nothing compared to what is coming....

Two whistle blowers silenced...

Be vigilant... and above all, become aware of the real agenda...

I already have boomer clients of mine talking like that, but yes slasher, please tell us in detail about what's coming. Be specific, or shut up.

The only good thing about talking out of your ass like that is that it will all fall completely apart in a few months when we're back at the regular hellworld. (But people like you will obviously have learned nothing.)

Edit: and get off Facebook!

I hope you are right Khris...

I want to be around in 6 months...

Until then everyone has there own ideas based around the media...and other people's anxiety.

Until the truth finally comes out we may be talking out of our arses (me included)

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 22/03/2020 10:22:47
This is nothing compared to what is coming....

Two whistle blowers silenced...

Be vigilant... and above all, become aware of the real agenda...

I just rolled my eyes so hard that I can see the inside of my head.

Few scientists seem to think it will all die out in the (northern hemisphere) hot season - eg in a couple of months. But if it doesn't... things will start collapsing anyway.

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 22/03/2020 10:33:30
Until the truth finally comes out we may be talking out of our arses (me included)

The truth ist that the real name is CORVID-19, short for CORVIDAE-19 and that it's not a virus, but a gang of 19 crows!

Quote from: Matti on Sun 22/03/2020 11:30:15

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 22/03/2020 10:33:30
Until the truth finally comes out we may be talking out of our arses (me included)

The truth ist that the real name is CORVID-19, short for CORVIDAE-19 and that it's not a virus, but a gang of 19 crows!

Hahaha. Korax flegm.

In upstate NY, so my job hours got slashed in half but at least I'm still allowed to work those few. :/ We're in "PAUSE", which is basically fancy rewording to avoid the fact that they promised repeatedly not to give a shelter in place order.  But we're now world leader in the virus, so duh, locking down makes sense.

On the plus side, a lot of extra time to finish my MAGS!

Well, they have that theory yes, but then we wouldn't be seeing a problem in hot areas.   (wtf)

I think, or hope for, that after Easter we might go back to a bit normality, but still be encouraged to hold social distancing and caution as much as possible. But maybe I'm wrong and we're in for a few more months of this.  8-0

Been gardening and playing with the kids, experimenting with inkscape too. School decided to close, they've gave us homework and some online stuff. Don't see how you can substitute 5 hours of professional teaching a day but we'll do our best.

Yeah, we're also getting some homework the teachers send for the day/week... guess some is still better than non.
Some schools (and/or higher grades?) though, have implemented video-conference classes and the kids are attending classes that way.

I'm in the US (Oregon state), and in our state just about everything is locked down. You can get groceries, and medicine, and restaurants can sell food, but only curb-side takeout or delivery. We even have weed delivery which.. I never thought I'd live to see the day.  :-D It's okay to go outside, as long as you distance yourself from others.
But it differs state to state, until we get a national law I guess.

I feel really scared for people who can't work.. I can't imagine the stress. I think, at least in the US, it's going to get worse for a couple months, and lockdowns will probably stay through summer. We don't have nearly enough testing yet, but maybe in a month the testing will ramp up. A lot of people still don't think it's a problem.

Oregon has had about 4 deaths, but not enough testing. Our governor is building two makeshift field hospitals, just in case. Which frankly makes me happy because it says she is taking it seriously. I don't want people to die, especially if they could have been saved if enough beds were available. The world has survived these things before, but this is not a ride anyone wants to be on. Stay safe everyone.

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 22/03/2020 10:22:47
Two whistle blowers silenced...

You don't need a whistleblower to get to the conclusion that the future is in peril of becoming very dire, very soon. You only need a pocket calculator.

Let's do this for Germany (where I'm currently based).

Day by day for more than a week or so, our confirmed Corona cases have increased to the tune of 25 % to 33 %. Per day. So a daily increase rate of ~30 % is what we actually seem to be able to achieve in reality and practice. Let's use that number.

10 days ago, there were only 7 % (that is, 1.3 to the power of -10) of the cases we have now. Experts say that those who need ventilators need them for around 10 days. So we can only rely on 7 % of the ventilators to be re-usable as the patients of 10 days ago now recover or die. And this extends into the future for the people that start needing the ventilators today. For all intents and purposes, we'll need all our ventilators at the same time. With that increase rate of ~30 %, we are failing completely to "flatten the curve".

Now let's check our capacity. We've got around 15,000 intensive care beds with ventilators that can be reserved for Corona. (There are 28,000 intensive care beds in Germany overall, but we can't reserve them all because others need them too, and not all the beds have a ventilator)  Experts say that about 1 Corona case out of 20 needs a ventilator, so we've got capacity for 300,000 Corona cases. That's it.

Two days ago, we passed the 5-digit mark and had 10,000 "confirmed" Corona cases in Germany.  Start then and repeatedly multiply by 1.3.
Just considering the "confirmed" cases we'll reach capacity in only eleven days. After that, it's triage time.

But the actual number or Corona patients will be higher than the "confirmed" illnesses: Our test capacity is limited (by manpower, not by money). That's why we only test those with symptoms that have come into contact with Corona patients or have been in risk areas. We can't "confirm" any of the cases that we don't test, so there's bound to be a hefty dark figure of Corona cases that we don't know about.

Go figure ....

Yes, but with the measures at hand, the chances are that on 11 days the number of people needing hospital care and ventilators will start dropping as all the closing measures, quarantine and social distance will start taking effect, but yes, it will still suck for those that do get sick during the peak as they may die while it could have been avoided otherwise.  :~(

Over here they have stopped testing people with non serious symptoms for like a week ago, and thrusday/friday medical personnel as well, unless they display serious symptoms... they are simply running out of test kits, and thus are saving them for the critic patients. So exactly what is the number of infected people in Denmark is a very big question mark. But a number I would like to see, but that no news bulletins seem to care to report, is of those infected how many have now recovered.

McDonalds is closing it's doors here (https://www.breakingnews.ie/business/mcdonalds-to-close-all-irish-restaurants-989467.html). Truly a sign of end times...

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Sun 22/03/2020 22:53:18
But a number I would like to see, but that no news bulletins seem to care to report, is of those infected how many have now recovered.

According to german news (https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/coronavirus-karte-101.html) almost 98.000 people recovered (marked in green, "genesene Patienten").

It is interesting that Germany has so few deaths reported as Coronavirus caused, when compared to other countries with similar numbers of cases. Any explanation?

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Eg, Germany having almost 25000 cases, but only 94 deaths, when Spain (28000 cases), France (16000) and USA (32000) have hundreds or thousands of dead.

The number of people being tested can dramatically affect the ratio. If you’re only testing critical cases you’re going to end up with a higher proportion of deaths but if you’re testing as many people as possible you’re going to catch a lot more mild cases and the proportion of deaths will be lower.

  The only person I know who has it, and is recovering, is in Germany.  He says it is like a moderately severe flu, and while he's resting a lot he is far from bedridden - within the confines of his house.

  Where I am these days (U.S. East Coast) things are a little weird of course, but people are being good at distancing and the stores aren't too ravaged outside of TP.

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 23/03/2020 03:04:32
The number of people being tested can dramatically affect the ratio. If you’re only testing critical cases you’re going to end up with a higher proportion of deaths but if you’re testing as many people as possible you’re going to catch a lot more mild cases and the proportion of deaths will be lower.

Seems likely, yes - also going by the number of those reported as "critical" there.

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Mon 23/03/2020 06:25:42

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 23/03/2020 03:04:32
The number of people being tested can dramatically affect the ratio. If you’re only testing critical cases you’re going to end up with a higher proportion of deaths but if you’re testing as many people as possible you’re going to catch a lot more mild cases and the proportion of deaths will be lower.

Seems likely, yes - also going by the number of those reported as "critical" there.

It's also lower if you don't implement a strict nation-wide protocol for post-mortem testing (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-puzzles-experts).

btw, we're finally on lockdown. Took them long enough...

And of course, the number of tests done, and the criteria for who gets tested, greatly affects the number of infections found, so we should be careful with calculations such as fernewelten's: an apparent explosion in cases could be a reflection of testing being ramped up, while a supposedly low rate could be because a lack of testing (or, in some cases, unreliable or insensitive tests). There are a lot of interesting data wrinkles for stats geeks to dig their teeth into.

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Mon 23/03/2020 07:00:36

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Mon 23/03/2020 06:25:42

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 23/03/2020 03:04:32
The number of people being tested can dramatically affect the ratio. If you’re only testing critical cases you’re going to end up with a higher proportion of deaths but if you’re testing as many people as possible you’re going to catch a lot more mild cases and the proportion of deaths will be lower.

Seems likely, yes - also going by the number of those reported as "critical" there.

It's also lower if you don't implement a strict nation-wide protocol for post-mortem testing (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-puzzles-experts).

btw, we're finally on lockdown. Took them long enough...

Yes, I heard something about that too. Would also help explain the strange difference.

Btw, since today we are on something like "official" house confinement mode. I doubt the system they set up with "get authorization by mobile text" is meant to do much other than dissuade the older people from leaving their house - we shall see. Also, seems unrealistic to have police check your id - handing it over when there is a virus doesn't seem very logical.

Quote from: Snarky on Mon 23/03/2020 07:13:41
And of course, the number of tests done, and the criteria for who gets tested, greatly affects the number of infections found, so we should be careful with calculations such as fernewelten's: an apparent explosion in cases could be a reflection of testing being ramped up, while a supposedly low rate could be because a lack of testing (or, in some cases, unreliable or insensitive tests). There are a lot of interesting data wrinkles for stats geeks to dig their teeth into.

THIS!!!

Yeah, I've seen states in the US reporting a number of deaths that's very close to the number of cases, which is extremely unlikely and must reflect the fact that people are only being tested if they're in a bad condition.

I went from a full time job to a no time job. I live in New York State and had to file for unemployment. Had this job as an engraver for 20 years. This really sucks.

^That sucks. I hope you find a new job soon :/

I mostly get money (these days) from my online literature seminar, so thankfully that is at the moment ok. But if this goes on for months it will be killed, obviously.

Damn. Sorry to hear that, Domino. Hope you get something new soon.

The other day I was imagining what it's going to be like about halfway through this thing, when half the people who are gonna get it have already had it and the other half are still terrified of getting it.

We are going to have two distinctly separate groups of people in the same society together. I wonder if we will see prejudice between these groups. Will "Immunies" or whatever we end up dubbing them, be treated with fear and suspicion by "Not-Yetters" because they might have an image of not being as careful anymore about their cleanliness?

I wonder if bars and cafes etc. will start putting signs out like "Welcome, but only if you've had it."

Things like that. We will see I suppose.

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 24/03/2020 05:17:50
The other day I was imagining what it's going to be like about halfway through this thing, when half the people who are gonna get it have already had it and the other half are still terrified of getting it.

We are going to have two distinctly separate groups of people in the same society together. I wonder if we will see prejudice between these groups. Will "Immunies" or whatever we end up dubbing them, be treated with fear and suspicion by "Not-Yetters" because they might have an image of not being as careful anymore about their cleanliness?

I wonder if bars and cafes etc. will start putting signs out like "Welcome, but only if you've had it."

Things like that. We will see I suppose.

Afaik it's not yet entirely known if one can get some new form back (ie if this mutates fast enough, while remaining lethal), so two groups wouldn't make sense in such a case.
What alarms me is how more draconian measures are taken regarding this, when compared to the first coronavirus or other such illnesses.

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 24/03/2020 06:19:41
Afaik it's not yet entirely known if one can get some new form back (ie if this mutates fast enough, while remaining lethal), so two groups wouldn't make sense in such a case.

Yeah, sorry, I meant if that turns out to be the case.

I actually had a dream last night that included turning people down when they tried to shake my hand.  :-\

Quote from: manannan on Wed 25/03/2020 10:45:31
I actually had a dream last night that included turning people down when they tried to shake my hand.  :-\

Shouldn't be a dream at this point  :-D

Quote from: manannan on Wed 25/03/2020 10:45:31
I actually had a dream last night that included turning people down when they tried to shake my hand.  :-\

Dreams are said to either be expressing a fear or a desire. I suppose it wasn't a desire  :=

I just want to stop for a moment and express the relief, finally my co-workers are turning down the habit of doing a handshake each time someone arrives to the office. No longer I have to be distracted by 10+ people wanting to shake my hand while I am trying to focus on my code.

Today our brilliant newly elected government decided they’re going to introduce legislation to allow tracking the movement of all citizens. Its not even a heightened state of emergency thing, it just could potentially help them be more effective with mapping progression of the virus. This is a country of 5 m with 219 positive cases, I think the severity of the situation is nowhere near what would excuse stripping us of most basic liberties. I’m still stunned.

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Wed 25/03/2020 15:14:23
I just want to stop for a moment and express the relief, finally my co-workers are turning down the habit of doing a handshake each time someone arrives to the office. No longer I have to be distracted by 10+ people wanting to shake my hand while I am trying to focus on my code.

Did people do that? Did you have to shake hands with people you worked with every day, every day?

I'm honestly asking because I have been here in Japan over half my life and that is just not a thing we do here. I can't remember ever shaking hands with my fellow workers even when I worked at a hotel back in Australia except when I met them the first time.

Or do you mean people you haven't met before?

EDIT: I reread your post and now think you might have meant new clients and the like. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 25/03/2020 15:49:01

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Wed 25/03/2020 15:14:23
I just want to stop for a moment and express the relief, finally my co-workers are turning down the habit of doing a handshake each time someone arrives to the office. No longer I have to be distracted by 10+ people wanting to shake my hand while I am trying to focus on my code.

Did people do that? Did you have to shake hands with people you worked with every day, every day?

<...>

EDIT: I reread your post and now think you might have meant new clients and the like. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No, I mean exactly the people who work there everyday. They shake hands on arrival, and shake hands again when going home. Drives me mad.

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Wed 25/03/2020 16:02:50

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 25/03/2020 15:49:01

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Wed 25/03/2020 15:14:23
I just want to stop for a moment and express the relief, finally my co-workers are turning down the habit of doing a handshake each time someone arrives to the office. No longer I have to be distracted by 10+ people wanting to shake my hand while I am trying to focus on my code.

Did people do that? Did you have to shake hands with people you worked with every day, every day?

<...>

EDIT: I reread your post and now think you might have meant new clients and the like. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No, I mean exactly the people who work there everyday. They shake hands on arrival, and shake hands again when going home. Drives me mad.

It's a cultural thing here (UAE), so I'm also shaking everyone's hand in the morning because that's courteous here, but...aren't you in the UK? What's up with that?

No, I am not in UK, and ... does not matter.

Prince Charles (uk) has tested positive for coronavirus.

https://youtu.be/e5-PftiIDd4

I didn't want to post this in it's own thread, but I felt it was important to post. I posted it in other sites and called the article/post; Reject a healthcare worker, reject hope. I Also called it at times "Reject a nurse, reject your hope".

Please read:

Last week I began my week being told that my hours would be reduced at work as a result of the Coronavirus. By Friday, 4 days later, I was furloughed before the reduced hours began as a result of the state I live in shutting down non-essential businesses.

My sister in law is a healthcare worker as well. She unknowingly contracted Coronavirus. Now her husband, my brother also has it. And my my mom.

During all this time, while we are dealing with the same stress that everyone in the world is probably facing(Such as having my two little girls at home home-schooling), my wife who happens to be a registered nurse in an hospital emergency room is working tirelessly to take care of patients with limited supplies and excessive patients. She had already exposed herself to multiple dangers at her hospital as a healthcare worker such as disease(Other than Covid-19), dangerous Psych patients that inappropriately touch her and threaten her, patients who are just plain old jerks that have no patience for wait time and that berate and accuse my wife constantly. Remember that car that crashed into the ER two years ago intentionally and then the person setting himself on fire? Well, that is where my wife works.. Right behind those same doors. You know your 8, 9 or 10 hour shift that you work at your office or job, well my wife works a 12 hour shift. If that wasn't enough... despite my wife having a to be exposed to this sickness, to this hatred and lack of appreciation, my wife also has the same 5 days of sick time that all of us get and God help her if she happens to be sick just one more day over that time period. She is bound by HIPPA laws, constantly threatened to be sued... It is not a glorious job.

Would you like to know what my wife has to encounter now with this Coronavirus? Imagine a fire fighter going in to a burning building but only having a face mask and fire hose. Not much protection because of the lack of supplies and face masks or coverings. You know what risks she takes? Like a fireman who puts himself at risk of death, my wife puts herself at risk of death too. From patients and illness. My wife caught both Flu A and Flu B this year from taking care of two different patients that forgot to tell her they had the flu. Yet, do you know one difference between a firefighter and a nurse? A firefighter does not bring back the fire to his home. My wife can and does at times.

Do you know what my two little daughters and I go through every day that my wife goes to work? We wait and hope that she comes home safe and that some patient who daily says he will shoot up the ER or stab her, etc.. Actually fails to fulfil that desire. You know what else? We have to wonder what we are going to catch this week or next week. With this Coronavirus my wife has practiced social distancing from us all and that means that I or my daughters haven't been able to properly hug, snuggle, hold or kiss my wife in weeks. My wife hasn't been able to visit her very sick dad who has Parkinsons disease or even be in the same room with her own 75 year old mother.

But you know the worst thing about all of this? Besides that my wife's husband(me) lost his job and she now has to be the sole provider until this all settles down, besides the fact that she exposes herself to all this and has to be apart from all of us and friends because she is a nurse??? It is the fact that my wife is not allowed to pump gas at a gas station without being harrassed, threatened or assaulted because she is recognized as a healthcare worker. Or she can't go into a store to get necessities that we as a family need because they know she is a nurse. What is really sad is that this has been happening to a large percentage of nurses and healthcare workers worldwide.

You know what? If you have done this to a healthcare worker, please realize something: You are not just a coward. You see, it is OK to be afraid. But It's NOT OK for your fear, though, to treat others badly. No, you instead are a jerk. You are denying giving people what they need just for risking their lives to help you. Next time, before you do something like that ever again, just think: It may be you with Coronavirus walking into a hospital possibly infecting the staff and other patients and... my wife.

If you are a healthcare worker, do not stand for this. Walk out of the store or gas station. Call the police. Shame the business on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram and Nextdoor.com and even report to your local news station. Do not stand for that injustice. It is OK to be afraid. It is even to an extent OK to be a coward. But it is not OK to turn people away when they are in need and it is far worse to assault them because you "Think" they are infected. Please Pass this message on!

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 25/03/2020 16:46:05
Prince Charles (uk) has tested positive for coronavirus.

https://youtu.be/e5-PftiIDd4

If prince Andrew also has it, young people are at risk  :=

Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on Wed 25/03/2020 18:06:32
Yet, do you know one difference between a firefighter and a nurse? A firefighter does not bring back the fire to his home.

Powerful words!

@Joseph DiPerla - That’s a tough situation to be in, man. I’m sure your family will all pull through this. I have to admit it’s the first Ive heard about healthcare workers being mistreated because people are scared they have the virus. It’s illogical. Anyone Could have it. It’s up to individuals to take precautions and wash their hands etc, not have a go at nurses who are the real soldiers in this war. Your wife is a hero.

+1 to Stupot
Nurses should be treated like heroes, especially now.

Joseph DiPerla

Many people act out of character when in a crises... Even so, they should show some respect.... One day they may need help from the people they mistreated..

@joseph, That was quite an emotional read. Sometimes you must stop and see the individual. I remember a few years ago when they were doing road construction work, there was a picture of a man, and maybe there was a child in the picture too but i fail to remember that. There was a text underneath the man's face "Drive carefully, my dad works here" to me at least it had a huge impact although i'm not a lunatic in trafic. I didn't see construction workers anymore. I saw people's  sons,brothers and fathers. People really need to think about that when they want to act out against someone. I hope you and your family will be safe :-) and to everyone else here of course as well. Stay safe!

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Wed 25/03/2020 16:35:59
No, I am not in UK, and ... does not matter.

Once, the British were very famous in the whole world for NOT doing any shake-hands ever. Except for the very first time they met, and that would be a very formal occasion where they went, "How do you do. â€" How do you do."

Times have changed, of course, but the concept of British workers constantly shaking hands is be still surprising. That was the reason for the question, I suppose.

Joseph that sucks.   :~(

It's not right to be blaming health care when they're doing everything humanly possible to help others at their own health risk! In fact they're the ones less likely to catch the virus, since they know and take every precaution against catching any sickness. They're trained to know what to do and how to keep clean. Unlike those idiots, who probably are the same thinking their immune and don't need to take precautions... 

Quote from: Stupot on Thu 26/03/2020 02:43:59
@Joseph DiPerla - That’s a tough situation to be in, man. I’m sure your family will all pull through this. I have to admit it’s the first Ive heard about healthcare workers being mistreated because people are scared they have the virus. It’s illogical. Anyone Could have it. It’s up to individuals to take precautions and wash their hands etc, not have a go at nurses who are the real soldiers in this war. Your wife is a hero.

I also haven't heard of healthcare workers being ostracised in this way. Reddit is expressing overwhelming praise for not only healthcare workers but also sanitation workers. Very sorry to hear your family is going through this, Joseph.

Unfortunately, I work in the television industry and my job is considered essential (although I can attest that my presence is not required for these television stations to continue to broadcast news and other important messaging).  I will have to continue going to work and putting myself at risk despite the counties in which I live and work issuing stay-at-home / shelter-in-place orders this weekend.

Quote from: dactylopus on Sat 28/03/2020 03:59:39
Unfortunately, I work in the television industry and my job is considered essential (although I can attest that my presence is not required for these television stations to continue to broadcast news and other important messaging).  I will have to continue going to work and putting myself at risk despite the counties in which I live and work issuing stay-at-home / shelter-in-place orders this weekend.

Are you and other workers wearing protective gear like gloves and face masks?

I just had some guy knock my door and ask if i was ok and if i needed anything..

Some nice people about..  (nod)

Quote from: Slasher on Sat 28/03/2020 17:24:12
I just had some guy knock my door and ask if i was ok and if i needed anything..

Some nice people about..  (nod)

Hopefully his accomplice wasn't entering the apartment from the other side  :=

(let's hope this crisis ends in the near future...)

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Sun 29/03/2020 08:11:25
Hopefully his accomplice wasn't entering the apartment from the other side  :=

Wow. Cynical.

Quote from: Mandle on Sun 29/03/2020 09:51:58

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Sun 29/03/2020 08:11:25
Hopefully his accomplice wasn't entering the apartment from the other side  :=

Wow. Cynical.

I also thought that, to be honest. The German Police have warned of scams in which, for example, someone knocks at your door and claims to be testing door-to-door for Coronavirus and asking for a fee. And apparently they tend to target seniors, too (https://polizei.nrw/betrug-mit-dem-corona-virus). I guess it doesn't hurt to at least know about these things.

As it happens I recognized him from a ground floor flat on my block.... But one does have to be wary..

It was only a joke :)

But yes, if you don't know the person, caution is a good idea, sadly...

I live in South Korea. At first, it was only spreading in some countries including Korea, so I didn't worry about other countries. I'm very worried now.

In developing it as AGS, I wanted to have an event or meeting related to adventure abroad. However, the problem of racial discrimination intensified after Corona, causing the problem of assaulting Asians.
So I got scared to visit. :~(

South Korea quickly accepted and managed the seriousness of the situation in the early days of Korona, and the entire nation is cooperating to revive the situation.
I hope other countries will be stable as soon as possible and hate for race will decrease.

Quote from: ukz530 on Sun 29/03/2020 11:36:48
In developing it as AGS, I wanted to have an event or meeting related to adventure abroad. However, the problem of racial discrimination intensified after Corona, causing the problem of assaulting Asians.
So I got scared to visit. :~(

I am sorry that you feel that way, what's happening now is pretty awful :( And unfortunately, it's just getting worse, everywhere. In China, the same thing seems to be happening now (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/china-coronavirus-anti-foreigner-feeling-imported-cases), with foreigners being accused of "bringing back the virus". A couple friends of mine (she's Estonian, he's Austrian) were travelling through South America when this hit, and now they're stuck in Bumfuck, Argentina, quarantined "for their own safety", as there are reports of foreigners being violently assaulted and chased off towns just for looking like they're "not from there". I myself am starting to feel kind of wary about Germans starting to take out their frustration on people like me from, um, less civilized (please read with dripping sarcasm) countries. All it takes is a spark.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel like the world has gotten a lot smaller these last few weeks...  :(

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sun 29/03/2020 12:13:19

Quote from: ukz530 on Sun 29/03/2020 11:36:48
In developing it as AGS, I wanted to have an event or meeting related to adventure abroad. However, the problem of racial discrimination intensified after Corona, causing the problem of assaulting Asians.
So I got scared to visit. :~(

I am sorry that you feel that way, what's happening now is pretty awful :( And unfortunately, it's just getting worse, everywhere. In China, the same thing seems to be happening now (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/china-coronavirus-anti-foreigner-feeling-imported-cases), with foreigners being accused of "bringing back the virus". A couple friends of mine (she's Estonian, he's Austrian) were travelling through South America when this hit, and now they're stuck in Bumfuck, Argentina, quarantined "for their own safety", as there are reports of foreigners being violently assaulted and chased off towns just for looking like they're "not from there". I myself am starting to feel kind of wary about Germans starting to take out their frustration on people like me from, um, less civilized (please read with dripping sarcasm) countries. All it takes is a spark.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel like the world has gotten a lot smaller these last few weeks...  :(

Already saw how Germany reacted to plans to have the EU/european central bank help the population. Still only caring about "their" money.

I think that if this keeps up for months, things may change dramatically. Furthermore, some euro countries can't even feed their own population (rely on food imports).

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sun 29/03/2020 12:13:19

Quote from: ukz530 on Sun 29/03/2020 11:36:48
In developing it as AGS, I wanted to have an event or meeting related to adventure abroad. However, the problem of racial discrimination intensified after Corona, causing the problem of assaulting Asians.
So I got scared to visit. :~(

I am sorry that you feel that way, what's happening now is pretty awful :( And unfortunately, it's just getting worse, everywhere. In China, the same thing seems to be happening now (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/29/china-coronavirus-anti-foreigner-feeling-imported-cases), with foreigners being accused of "bringing back the virus". A couple friends of mine (she's Estonian, he's Austrian) were travelling through South America when this hit, and now they're stuck in Bumfuck, Argentina, quarantined "for their own safety", as there are reports of foreigners being violently assaulted and chased off towns just for looking like they're "not from there". I myself am starting to feel kind of wary about Germans starting to take out their frustration on people like me from, um, less civilized (please read with dripping sarcasm) countries. All it takes is a spark.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel like the world has gotten a lot smaller these last few weeks...  :(

Not only Asians but also other races seem to be suffering from aversion. Terrible. :~(

it may be a little abstract,We are born in different countries, but we share and respect information with each other around AGS and point-and-click adventure games.
We have respected each other like this. I believe that other people can respect each other more.

I hope everyone of various races and countries can overcome Corona wisely.

Quote from: manannan on Sat 28/03/2020 04:42:44
Are you and other workers wearing protective gear like gloves and face masks?

The company does not provide either, and both are hard to find in stores.  I do have a few boxes of my own gloves, and a single mask that I happened to have at home for woodworking.  The company was actually out of disinfecting wipes for all of last week as well.  Luckily I had some at home to use to wipe down my workstation.  Due to the way things are set up in my working area, social distancing of 6 feet is a joke.  At best, we are 3-4 feet apart.

I just hope that the Hazard Pay bill working its way through Congress will get approved to make this a little more worthwhile, but I think that will only include workers likely to be in direct contact with the virus.  I've considered staying home without pay, but I need a new AC unit and summer is coming!

I know this has been shared a lot as of late, but Bill Gates' 2015 TED talk is pretty interesting:

Just got back from Carrefour. Everyone wearing masks. You are now given plastic gloves and a spray of disinfectant on the way in, another spray on the way out. Still very orderly ~ I hope it stays that way.

I went shopping, and was the only person wearing a mask. The supermarket has complimentary gloves and hand sanitizer, though, along with perspex dividers to protect the workers at the checkouts, so hopefully people have been taking advantage of it.

...

Also, I'm pretty drunk at the mo'...I mean, fuck, what else is there to do!

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 31/03/2020 02:30:37
I went shopping, and was the only person wearing a mask.

They said it was okay to go shopping with only a mask and gloves... But when I got there everyone else was wearing clothes.

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 31/03/2020 03:42:23

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 31/03/2020 02:30:37
I went shopping, and was the only person wearing a mask.

They said it was okay to go shopping with only a mask and gloves... But when I got there everyone else was wearing clothes.

:=

Masks in supermarkets will be mandatory here from tomorrow. I really hope this is some kind of "educating people to wear masks" thing and if it works, they will open other shops as well when you wear a mask.

However, gloves are really pointless. I mean, does it really matter if you touch all things (including your nose) with a glove instead of your hand? Gloves are only useful if you constantly change them. Just wash your hands and you will be fine.

Quote from: cat on Tue 31/03/2020 08:22:03
However, gloves are really pointless. I mean, does it really matter if you touch all things (including your nose) with a glove instead of your hand? Gloves are only useful if you constantly change them. Just wash your hands and you will be fine.

Gloves are meant to protect others, not you. You might be infected without knowing it, and if you go around touching stuff at the grocery store, opening doors, or paying in cash (which we shouldn't be doing anyway, but sometimes it happens, like if you want to tip your grocery delivery person or whatever) then you're spreading it to others. Gloves help with that.

Most masks (certaintly "surgical" type masks) are also only for protecting others, though.

Which is why this is my mask:

(https://i7.pngguru.com/preview/245/574/390/black-death-plague-doctor-costume-bubonic-plague-others.jpg)

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Tue 31/03/2020 08:53:52
Gloves are meant to protect others, not you. You might be infected without knowing it, and if you go around touching stuff at the grocery store, opening doors, or paying in cash (which we shouldn't be doing anyway, but sometimes it happens, like if you want to tip your grocery delivery person or whatever) then you're spreading it to others. Gloves help with that.

No, it does not matter if I wear gloves or not. The virus will stick to gloves as well, just like on hands. In fact, wearing gloves makes it MORE likely to spread something, because people feel save with gloves and take less care about hygiene. You would have to constantly change them to be safe.

Quote from: cat on Tue 31/03/2020 09:19:11

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Tue 31/03/2020 08:53:52
Gloves are meant to protect others, not you. You might be infected without knowing it, and if you go around touching stuff at the grocery store, opening doors, or paying in cash (which we shouldn't be doing anyway, but sometimes it happens, like if you want to tip your grocery delivery person or whatever) then you're spreading it to others. Gloves help with that.

No, it does not matter if I wear gloves or not. The virus will stick to gloves as well, just like on hands. In fact, wearing gloves makes it MORE likely to spread something, because people feel save with gloves and take less care about hygiene. You would have to constantly change them to be safe.

I fail to see the problem here. Wash your hands, put on your gloves, go outside. Now the gloves are protecting surfaces and other people from your germs, since the latex/neoprene forms a relatively effective barrier to keep you from spreading crap. Get back home, throw the gloves in the trash, wash hands.

And the idea that it's more likely to spread stuff because you think you're safe wearing gloves also applies to bike helmets (people tend to act more imprudently when they're wearing them), but nobody's saying that they're useless or that we should ban helmets, but rather educate people on their use instead.

It is my understanding that the virus is spread through respiratory droplets (so coughing, sneezing, spitting, etc.), being breathed in, swallowed, entering the bloodstream, going into the eyes.
In that sense, I'm not sure wearing gloves (even for as short a time as going out to the market) really helps: You'd be touching door-knobs, shaking hands, patting(?), then touching your face and eyes and breathing in those droplets (or other people would be then touching their faces and breathing in YOUR droplets). Whether or not you wear gloves won't change this.

If everyone was wearing gloves, goggles and a face-mask when they go out, then when they come back in, throw away their gloves/mask and wash their goggles, it would make more sense.

If I'm wrong in this understanding, feel free to correct me.

EDIT: I suppose handing out disposable gloves at the supermarket would help in situations where you might be infected/have come into contact with the virus somewhere on your hands, you wear the gloves, do all your shopping, DON'T touch your eyes or cough into your gloves/wipe droplets with them/sneeze into them, interact with someone else who might have the virus, and then throw them away once done. So they're not useless, but I feel a better system should probably be put into place.

You are supposed to buy those (one use gloves), in a box. I use them, although I doubt it makes much of a difference - given the virus is airborne anyway.
Also, I have to suppose that I was already infected weeks ago, and in that case over it.

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 11:46:07
You are supposed to buy those (one use gloves), in a box. I use them, although I doubt it makes much of a difference - given the virus is airborne anyway.
Also, I have to suppose that I was already infected weeks ago, and in that case over it.

From what I understand, the virus isn't airborne, it is transferred through droplets. I mean, it COULD become airborne (e.g. someone sneezes into the air, and the thus aerosolises the virus, and then you breathe in that air before it settles on some surface), but that wouldn't be the usual way it would be transferred.

Quote from: Babar on Tue 31/03/2020 11:05:55
You'd be touching door-knobs, shaking hands, patting(?), then touching your face and eyes and breathing in those droplets (or other people would be then touching their faces and breathing in YOUR droplets). Whether or not you wear gloves won't change this.

Well yeah, but the point is for you to remember not to touch your face while you're out and about :-D In fact, wearing gloves simply could work as a reminder in many cases.

Quote from: Babar on Tue 31/03/2020 11:55:18

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 11:46:07
You are supposed to buy those (one use gloves), in a box. I use them, although I doubt it makes much of a difference - given the virus is airborne anyway.
Also, I have to suppose that I was already infected weeks ago, and in that case over it.

From what I understand, the virus isn't airborne, it is transferred through droplets. I mean, it COULD become airborne (e.g. someone sneezes into the air, and the thus aerosolises the virus, and then you breathe in that air before it settles on some surface), but that wouldn't be the usual way it would be transferred.

But see this is exactly why gloves and masks one EVERYONE is critical. The idea is that if everyone participates, those that are ill (perhaps unknowingly --it can take days for symptoms to develop) are less likely to pass it to others. The gloves and masks help keep the germs localised to the infected person.

Quote from: Babar on Tue 31/03/2020 11:55:18

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 11:46:07
You are supposed to buy those (one use gloves), in a box. I use them, although I doubt it makes much of a difference - given the virus is airborne anyway.
Also, I have to suppose that I was already infected weeks ago, and in that case over it.

From what I understand, the virus isn't airborne, it is transferred through droplets. I mean, it COULD become airborne (e.g. someone sneezes into the air, and the thus aerosolises the virus, and then you breathe in that air before it settles on some surface), but that wouldn't be the usual way it would be transferred.

I do not know - the local experts say that there are droplets in the air, so people should not go out unless they have a set thing to do. I assume they do not mean from someone having sneezed/coughed a short while ago (?).

Not that the ban is working that much here. It used to, when the weather was garbage, but for a couple of days it was hot so you see more people outside.

Quote from: manannan on Tue 31/03/2020 12:14:30

Quote from: Babar on Tue 31/03/2020 11:55:18

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 11:46:07
You are supposed to buy those (one use gloves), in a box. I use them, although I doubt it makes much of a difference - given the virus is airborne anyway.
Also, I have to suppose that I was already infected weeks ago, and in that case over it.

From what I understand, the virus isn't airborne, it is transferred through droplets. I mean, it COULD become airborne (e.g. someone sneezes into the air, and the thus aerosolises the virus, and then you breathe in that air before it settles on some surface), but that wouldn't be the usual way it would be transferred.

But see this is exactly why gloves and masks one EVERYONE is critical. The idea is that if everyone participates, those that are ill (perhaps unknowingly --it can take days for symptoms to develop) are less likely to pass it to others. The gloves and masks help keep the germs localised to the infected person.

But if I am wearing gloves and a mask, and go to the supermarket, rub my eyes, then touch a shopping cart, then someone does something similar in reverse, the gloves and masks haven't helped anything. I agree that they do help in terms of reminders, but if everyone just didn't touch their face, we'd all be good anyways.

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 12:42:24
I do not know - the local experts say that there are droplets in the air, so people should not go out unless they have a set thing to do. I assume they do not mean from someone having sneezed/coughed a short while ago (?).

Social Isolation isn't advocated for because outside is dangerous, it is because being around other people is dangerous.

^Yes, which is fine by me - I am very introverted anyway & get most of my pay from creating online seminars. Although I hear that the lock-downs etc happen mostly to prevent mass numbers of sick flooding the hospitals, which would just cause a lot more deaths.

A month ago I did get sick, and it was quite serious (I never got sick like that before). It may have been partly caused by coronavirus, but maybe not. At any rate, I am recovering. Sadly for me it is terrible to stay where I am, and was about to move to my apartment again when this virus crisis started.

It's not airborne.
If it was then keeping a distance of 1 to 2 meters from other wouldn't do anything. Plexiglass on the shops would do nothing also, since the virus would just float/fly around it. Opening the window would let it in. If it was airborne we would be in a lot deeper hole.  8-0

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Tue 31/03/2020 16:29:14
It's not airborne.
If it was then keeping a distance of 1 to 2 meters from other wouldn't do anything. Plexiglass on the shops would do nothing also, since the virus would just float/fly around it. Opening the window would let it in. If it was airborne we would be in a lot deeper hole.  8-0

Thanks for the info. I suppose the "droplets in the air" was about some trace left under specific weather conditions or similar (?).
Anyway, when I go out I do keep at least a 2 meter distance, though I noticed most others don't bother and will pass you within half a metre or such.

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 16:54:31
Thanks for the info. I suppose the "droplets in the air" was about some trace left under specific weather conditions or similar (?).
Anyway, when I go out I do keep at least a 2 meter distance, though I noticed most others don't bother and will pass you within half a metre or such.

Just start coughing. That should scare them away  :=

Quote from: Babar on Tue 31/03/2020 17:58:28

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 16:54:31
Thanks for the info. I suppose the "droplets in the air" was about some trace left under specific weather conditions or similar (?).
Anyway, when I go out I do keep at least a 2 meter distance, though I noticed most others don't bother and will pass you within half a metre or such.

Just start coughing. That should scare them away  :=

:=

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 31/03/2020 03:42:23
They said it was okay to go shopping with only a mask and gloves... But when I got there everyone else was wearing clothes.

I'd just like to point out that I posted this originally as a joke.

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 31/03/2020 22:13:12

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 31/03/2020 03:42:23
They said it was okay to go shopping with only a mask and gloves... But when I got there everyone else was wearing clothes.

I'd just like to point out that I posted this originally as a joke.

It's too late to hide your shame, Mandle!  :=

Quote from: Ponch on Wed 01/04/2020 04:08:45

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 31/03/2020 22:13:12

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 31/03/2020 03:42:23
They said it was okay to go shopping with only a mask and gloves... But when I got there everyone else was wearing clothes.

I'd just like to point out that I posted this originally as a joke.

It's too late to hide your shame, Mandle!  :=

(laugh) (laugh) (laugh)

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mh_9Sxp7hmg

check the video description for a message from cuterona!!!

[close]

So how is everyone keeping busy from home these days?

Quote from: manannan on Wed 01/04/2020 14:56:46
So how is everyone keeping busy from home these days?

Wait? I'm supposed to be doing things differently?  8-0

I'm in the lucky position of everything being the exact same. (I'm not even exaggerating.)
My biggest problem recently is keeping my dad sane, since he's used to being out all of the time. But that's about it really.

Oh wow, that is great (that you haven't had to change your lifestyle). I wish I could say I'm reading more or building/writing something cool, but a lot of the day involves working remotely and trying to keep my wife/son from going stir crazy. Lots of worksheets and little activities for my son. I'm trying to teach him some guitar here and there. Then family aerobics workout thing on YouTube (PE with Joe...anyone else watching? (laugh)) Then a few hours of studying or helping my wife cook pretty elaborate meals we normally wouldn't eat. We hang out on the balcony a lot too and barbecue a bit. My son and I play networked Minecraft games with each other once in a while, which is a lot of fun.

Quote from: manannan on Wed 01/04/2020 14:56:46
So how is everyone keeping busy from home these days?

Same as always  :=

(https://miro.medium.com/max/1012/1*tXjP8-C0qhngxmR4F9pBVQ.jpeg)

Yeah, my routine is the same, the only thing that changed is I'm more weary of touching stuff when going outside, so I keep my hands in my pockets and go about my life.

Where are you guys that haven't gone into lockdown? We've got police patrolling the streets after 8pm to ensure no one is outside after curfew (it's 7:50pm here now and we just got the loud emergency message to our smartphones reminding everyone they should now be home). Telecom companies now broadcast messages telling people to stay home every day. Literally nothing is open aside from large grocery chains and banks (on reduced hours).

We have some police patrolling here too. Weather became terrible and apparently will remain so for a week, so I suppose there won't be many trying to go out anyway.

Well thank God the weather is taking action. (laugh)

I'm in Denmark, police is patrooling, but just making sure that establishments are close and that people aren't gathering more than 10. Otherwise we're not in home arrest. We're just advised to stay home as much possible, and if you do go out keep distance from others, sanitize and careful.

But the reason why my day isn't changed that much is cause I'm not an out person, I much rather stay at home and we sorta have to "force" us to go out. We don't have a lot of RL friends to visit either. And my family lives 3000km away, so no visiting them on a whim either...

Quote from: manannan on Wed 01/04/2020 16:56:50
Well thank God the weather is taking action. (laugh)

Well, yes. It may even snow tomorrow (happened in April a few years ago too - climate has become notably changed). So there's no point in going for a nice walk  (laugh)

I'm actually spending way more time outside than usual. Normally I'd go from home to the office and back, do some shopping, and really only spend time outside on the weekend.

Now that I'm working from home, I get antsy, and since I can't go anywhere people gather I just go for these walks, usually for an hour or two each day. I'm really getting to know the nearby area.  :-D

If they implement some kind of curfew, or I'm suspected of infection and forced to self-isolate, I think I'd go mental.

I wish I could also say that corona did not change anything for me, but actually I´m really anxious about it. I live in germany and I think there are cases in every small city by now. Also I still have to go to work and so I worry all the time that I could infect someone by chance :( But I try not to overthink it, there is nothing more to be done than being careful.
I hope you all stay healthy!

Quote from: Racoon on Wed 01/04/2020 20:44:45
...I worry all the time that I could infect someone by chance :(

You contracted coronavirus?

Well, that's the damned thing: you don't know. You can be infected and completely asymptomatic, or just experience it as a "mild cold" â€" but still pass it on to another person who dies.

Quote from: manannan on Wed 01/04/2020 21:05:10

You contracted coronavirus?

Not that I know, but it is like Snarky said, you never now for sure when you´re not tested. And even though Germany tests a lot you can only get a test if you have serious symptoms and had contact with a person that tested positive or if you have traveled to a high risk area. There has been lots of cases where people infected others at work because they did not know they were sick. Is it easier to get tested where you live?

Edit:
To give some positive vibes after all, here a really cute article if someone needs to cheer up :)
https://www.boredpanda.com/quarantine-cats-twitter-trend/

Quote from: Babar on Tue 31/03/2020 17:58:28

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Tue 31/03/2020 16:54:31
Thanks for the info. I suppose the "droplets in the air" was about some trace left under specific weather conditions or similar (?).
Anyway, when I go out I do keep at least a 2 meter distance, though I noticed most others don't bother and will pass you within half a metre or such.

Just start coughing. That should scare them away  :=

Germany is now debating if intentionally coughing on others should be considered assault and battery (https://www.morgenpost.de/berlin/article228827125/Anhusten-koennte-als-Koerperverletzung-geahndet-werden.html) (link in German) due to brain-dead dipshits coughing or even spitting on police officers carrying out controls.

Seems pointless as well. I mean if they are into spitting onto others, why not ask for money so as not to do it?  :=

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Thu 02/04/2020 09:37:05
Seems pointless as well.

It's called a deterrent (https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Deterrence).

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Thu 02/04/2020 09:37:05I mean if they are into spitting onto others, why not ask for money so as not to do it?  :=

Junkies in the 80's would do exactly that, threatening you with bloody syringes and saying they had AIDS. I'm not exactly thrilled to see the same thing happening again.

Yes, I was trying to be funny. I'm told my brand of dark humour isn't very good  (wrong)

If some vaccine/cure is found, I suspect it won't be like with Polio, available for cheap for everyone and without a patent. Some people will try to get extremely rich overnight with this.
I wonder if things will slowly slide back to "before", or if there will be a progression of more crisis.
It does feel a bit like an interwar period, no? Then again, we are in the 20s  :=

If it was up to me, I would classify those offenses as terrorism, since that's what they're doing, causing you "terror".

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Thu 02/04/2020 17:36:48
If it was up to me, I would classify those offenses as terrorism, since that's what they're doing, causing you "terror".

I’m told some have been charged quite severely for this, think it was in US not here in Canada..
I’m still working a bunch in a grocery store but on one of my quiet days off I did some tinkering. Did you know the original Genesis/Mega Drive has great stereo sound and rgb picture locked away (sort of mildly so)? I already modded my old TV with a scart input previously but on Monday I rewired my genesis so that it outputs stereo through the 8? pin port on the back and rewiring my scart cable. A little switch will send either the original ugly composite signal to #2 or the right stereo channel which my cable sends to the tv. Yay! Played a game for 20 minutes after a couple hours of messing around, I feel accomplishment  (nod)

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Thu 02/04/2020 09:44:53Junkies in the 80's would do exactly that, threatening you with bloody syringes and saying they had AIDS. I'm not exactly thrilled to see the same thing happening again.

Afaik that's just an urban legend (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hiv-infected-needle-attacks/) :)

Quote from: Khris on Fri 03/04/2020 12:09:15

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Thu 02/04/2020 09:44:53Junkies in the 80's would do exactly that, threatening you with bloody syringes and saying they had AIDS. I'm not exactly thrilled to see the same thing happening again.

Afaik that's just an urban legend (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hiv-infected-needle-attacks/) :)

Yep.

Quote from: Matti on Fri 03/04/2020 12:27:54

Quote from: Khris on Fri 03/04/2020 12:09:15

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Thu 02/04/2020 09:44:53Junkies in the 80's would do exactly that, threatening you with bloody syringes and saying they had AIDS. I'm not exactly thrilled to see the same thing happening again.

Afaik that's just an urban legend (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hiv-infected-needle-attacks/) :)

Yep.

Errr that article has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I don't know about any urban legend concerning "madmen jamming needles into random people at public places", I'm talking about simple muggings in which a junkie would walk up to you and threaten you with a needle instead of a knife, which were extremely common in my city and I know it's not an "urban legend" because it literally happened to me and my mom. So yeah.


Edit: even the article points out that robberies like these did take place: "Robberies have been carried out by syringe-wielding robbers who claim to be armed with the AIDS virus and willing to stick anyone who gets in their way with the infected needle. It has to be stressed that though various robbers and muggers have claimed to have been so armed, thus far this has never proved out to be anything more than an empty threat. All syringes so employed have tested out as perfectly clean. Even so, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that claiming to be armed with an AIDS-tainted needle would generate a lot of cooperation from the people you’re trying to rob."

Oh, sorry, that's horrible! Maybe I should've read further :-[

Quote from: Khris on Fri 03/04/2020 14:57:48
Oh, sorry, that's horrible! Maybe I should've read further :-[

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/9MCLyrLS4Nrm8/source.gif)

:P ;)

Oh, I'm sorry too.

My Granddaughter Lexie (8) playing in the garden during the so-called 'Lockdown'

https://youtu.be/ScuJr57tn9o

LOL!!!! Hardly precocious at all!!!

(https://media.giphy.com/media/hc10gBL10d3Ko/giphy.gif)

Never in my adult life have I lost track of the day of the week, but here we are. Woke up and was unsure whether I should be getting ready for 'work' (Microsoft Teams) or not. Yep, was a workday. Logged in on time. Shirt and tie from the waist up. Was a 'normal' day.  :-\

Well I'm off to have my hundredth cup of coffee. Hope the rest of you are doing OK.

It's normal work day here, Thursday is a holiday.

Quote from: Mandle on Thu 09/04/2020 06:26:33
LOL!!!! Hardly precocious at all!!!

I spent her early years teaching her all aspects of life....even sums, words, shapes,puzzles, games and she has turned out very bright and imaginative and even performs her Lexie video shows we make with her singing, dancing and telling stories.. She is using Lockdown to be inventive..

Quote from: Slasher on Thu 09/04/2020 18:58:53

Quote from: Mandle on Thu 09/04/2020 06:26:33
LOL!!!! Hardly precocious at all!!!

I spent her early years teaching her all aspects of life...

You did an amazing job. What a charming and delightfully annoying little bright spark!!!

I predict her YouTube channel will explode and then you'll all have to deal with a precocious little lady who has millions of dollars and is able to handle her own investments. purchases, and taxes.

Forget about "Mummy, I want a pony!". It's gonna be "Oh, and Mammaas, just so you know, I made some purchases yesterday. My new driver will be by at 10 to take me to my new farm to ride my new ponies."

Well, that was some week...

This is the first time I've logged onto the forums since...last Wednesday? Thursday? Hell, this is the first time I've sat down at a computer since then!

I'll just say this: Never underestimate how quickly a stressful situation can snowball into a total shit-show.

Things seem to be back to normal now, or as normal as things can get at the moment.

...

:-\

I actually miss endless Brexit reporting.  :-X

Or, how Trump becoming president was like the end of world...
Wait... Maybe you can continue with that...

Quote from: Gilbert on Sat 11/04/2020 08:27:18
Or, how Trump becoming president was like the end of world...
Wait... Maybe you can continue with that...

(laugh)

I think the worst part of the whole situation is just who isolated one feels. I was already spending my days sitting at home by myself with my computer as company
for more than a year before this whole virus thing started, and I can tell you, you might do OK for a few weeks or months, but when it goes on for longer this sort of stuff really¨
does a number on your mental health, and your energy gets drained. I know many have criticized the Swedish policy for not shutting everything down and having straight up curfews,
but being able to go outside and doing something as simple as buying a treat from the store have been one of the few things that's helped me stay sane.

Anyone else worried we might see a spike in depression rates if this goes on for longer?

Quote from: Blondbraid on Sat 11/04/2020 10:16:51
I think the worst part of the whole situation is just who isolated one feels. I was already spending my days sitting at home by myself with my computer as company
for more than a year before this whole virus thing started, and I can tell you, you might do OK for a few weeks or months, but when it goes on for longer this sort of stuff really¨
does a number on your mental health, and your energy gets drained. I know many have criticized the Swedish policy for not shutting everything down and having straight up curfews,
but being able to go outside and doing something as simple as buying a treat from the store have been one of the few things that's helped me stay sane.

Anyone else worried we might see a spike in depression rates if this goes on for longer?

I've also been wondering about the long-term implications for societies if this carries on for the rest of 2020 and beyond. The problem is the likelihood of periodic states of re-quarantine (like we're seeing in parts of China at the moment). Those living in poverty or near poverty, and especially those in societies with little or no social safety net, are going to be increasingly unable to weather the storm (3 months? OK. 18 months on-off quarantine? Not so OK.) I don't mean to sound sensationalist, but it does remind me a bit of the narrative from 'The Purge', where essentially anyone who doesn't have the financial means to defend themselves is many times more likely to fall into desperation or victim to the virus --and society will largely grow to accept this as the new normal. Trump's complete cock-up of the US's response, particularly in NYC, is just a taster of what could be a much more widespread and society-defining phenomenon.

Also wondering what the implications of the South Korean's patients that were declared healthy, now are back at being infected.  8-0 Seems like the virus took a nap and wasn't defeated at all. What does that mean for our society? Also cat can get infected, so there's another potential source of infection spreading right there.  :-\

And yes. I do think if this keeps on,  that we will start seeing increasing  depression and mental health problems in a lot of people, specially those that live alone but are very social in their normal day. 

For me the main issue is financial. I mostly get pay from online lit seminars, but if people don't have money, they won't pay for those...

I go out for a walk for 1-2 hours a day. Obviously can't meet anyone, but I am very introverted and even if things were normal I would keep away for some time due to getting ill just before all this started and healing.

Quote from: Blondbraid on Sat 11/04/2020 10:16:51
I know many have criticized the Swedish policy for not shutting everything down and having straight up curfews,
but being able to go outside and doing something as simple as buying a treat from the store have been one of the few things that's helped me stay sane.

There's a lot of room for a huge variety of measures between the almost-complete lockdown of Italy or Spain, and Sweden's "I dunno, just try, like, not to cough on anyone I guess (https://www.krisinformation.se/corona)?". Germany has imposed a series of restrictions but you can still go for a treat or a walk if you feel like it. And as someone with actual skin in this game (immunocompromised + chronic respiratory issues), I am far more terrifed of the restrictions being lifted too early (as they no doubt will) than of spending another month or two in this situation. It sucks to have to see my friends only on Skype, but if I die from this, then it's no more conversations, ever. People in my situation have every right in the world to criticize ableist policies that so blatantly disregard the lives of the vulnerable.

Germany already has over 2700 deaths (even in the way they count the dead), so they will likely not lift measures very soon.
In Greece, on the other hand, we have fewer than 100 deaths.

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sat 11/04/2020 17:57:39

Quote from: Blondbraid on Sat 11/04/2020 10:16:51
I know many have criticized the Swedish policy for not shutting everything down and having straight up curfews,
but being able to go outside and doing something as simple as buying a treat from the store have been one of the few things that's helped me stay sane.

There's a lot of room for a huge variety of measures between the almost-complete lockdown of Italy or Spain, and Sweden's "I dunno, just try, like, not to cough on anyone I guess (https://www.krisinformation.se/corona)?". Germany has imposed a series of restrictions but you can still go for a treat or a walk if you feel like it. And as someone with actual skin in this game (immunocompromised + chronic respiratory issues), I am far more terrifed of the restrictions being lifted too early (as they no doubt will) than of spending another month or two in this situation. It sucks to have to see my friends only on Skype, but if I die from this, then it's no more conversations, ever. People in my situation have every right in the world to criticize ableist policies that so blatantly disregard the lives of the vulnerable.

I can very much understand your feelings, while not in a risk group myself both my parents are, and my mom especially have worried greatly over getting infected.

Personally though, I don't feel a global lock down is a feasible or sustainable solution, and I feel that it would be better to focus entirely on protecting the risk groups rather than trying to make everyone isolate themselves,
especially since in Sweden at least, there's a shortage of proper masks, made worse by charlatans and otherwise healthy people hogging them all for themselves, when they should go to medical staff and people who
really are at risk. It just seems like a better strategy to try and give just the risk grops the most extensive protection possible rather than spreading it out to people who aren't at risk.

But this situation also highlights just how vulnerable a global society is, and there will always be risks for new pandemics, and there needs to be more solutions than just trying to put everything on pause like a Sims game.

It is sobering to think that, in America, the amount of people dying per day is getting close to the total amount that died on 9/11.

Meanwhile, back in the Eu, the crisis led to yet another forced loan to a lot of countries. Instead of a common euro bond.

I've spent the last 10 years alone...I like being by myself but i am not unsociable...

It has recently been reported that one teenager in the UK has already committed suicide through the isolation period, though he was unstable even before the outbreak..

Those that don't need constant attention and are happy being alone have no worry... They will get through this hokum of miss-information that is causing mass hysteria..

However it works out i really hope everyone gets on with their lives...

Hm, that is pretty unexpected, imo. I mean the isolation plan in the Uk has only been in force for... less than two weeks?
But yes, obviously it is good to be able to be by yourself now. It reminds me of Franz Kafka's note when ww1 started. He wrote that "now I am being rewarded for being as I am" etc.

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 12/04/2020 16:31:24
It has recently been reported that one teenager in the UK has already committed suicide through the isolation period, though he was unstable even before the outbreak..

I'm not surprised, take someone already suffering, and then add the massive stress factor about hearing about the pandemic killing people everywhere
combined with being unable to keep most of your daily routines and what little social life you have left...

Quote from: Blondbraid on Sun 12/04/2020 13:53:10
I can very much understand your feelings, while not in a risk group myself both my parents are, and my mom especially have worried greatly over getting infected.

Personally though, I don't feel a global lock down is a feasible or sustainable solution, and I feel that it would be better to focus entirely on protecting the risk groups rather than trying to make everyone isolate themselves,
especially since in Sweden at least, there's a shortage of proper masks, made worse by charlatans and otherwise healthy people hogging them all for themselves, when they should go to medical staff and people who
really are at risk. It just seems like a better strategy to try and give just the risk grops the most extensive protection possible rather than spreading it out to people who aren't at risk.

But this situation also highlights just how vulnerable a global society is, and there will always be risks for new pandemics, and there needs to be more solutions than just trying to put everything on pause like a Sims game.

It's not just about risk groups vs non-risk groups, because all the groups only have access to the same resources. So as a over-simplification, if a hypothetical country only has 10 hospital beds and 20 medicines, but a population of 100, of which 50 people are older and 'at risk', aside from all the spreading and such, even if one of the younger, not at risk people sick to the level that they need to go to the hospital, they're using resources others could have been using (and not just other people infected with the virus, but people who need to go to the hospital for other illneses, chronic conditions, accidents, etc.). The point of the social isolation is that along with attempting to stem the spread of the virus, it would slow it down and stagger the infection among the population.

Long term lockdown is indeed probably not sustainable, but something for a few weeks? We've never it done on such a scale before, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

I'm good at being anti social and not going out. Am I doing okay then? No, as mentioned, the stress and fear, and hearing of so much loss of life, is a real challenge on my mental health. I feel like im just waiting for the worst to happen, and I'm helpless to do anything.

I always thought in a time of crisis, I'd be proactively helping people. I'm the guy who doesn't hesitate to break up a fight between strangers, and so on. But the best thing I can do is stay at home. I live with 3 others, and nobody here is exactly what id call very low risk, so i wouldn't like to chance anything by going out unless i really have to.

I've not left the house (except for the garden) in 4 weeks now. Ugh.

Quote from: ManicMatt on Mon 13/04/2020 00:06:36
I've not left the house (except for the garden) in 4 weeks now. Ugh.

Well done! I'm coming up on 4 weeks of 99% staying at home. I have to go out now and then to the shop like 1 minute from my house, but am taking all precautions when I do so.

The worst thing I've found is that my sleep cycle is out of whack, but probably because I'm not enforcing the kind of discipline on it that I should be.

Quote from: Mandle on Mon 13/04/2020 02:43:20

The worst thing I've found is that my sleep cycle is out of whack

Ugh. This is so true. For years I would be in bed by about 10, even on weekends. Last night (a work night) I went to bed at midnight and got up at 4am (son needed a glass of water). Just decided to get some coffee and work, but I know this will lead a long nap in the afternoon (which I actually hate doing, but the flexibility in hours has me totally out of routine).

That's a point, I had that issue during my first ever period of unemployment. There was nowhere to be up for in the morning so why go to bed on time?

i went to bed later and later, until one day i went to sleep and woke up at 4pm.

that was a wake up call (sic) to start going to bed on time.

News from Italia: lockdown is extended until 3 May. Damn.

_

Luckily, small shops will open tomorrow here. I've been outside as much as possible in the last weeks, going to supermarkets, the post office, doing tours on my bike etc. Restaurants started to sell takeaway food again. However, schools, kindergartens and even playgrounds are still closed  :(

I hate the term social distancing. No, I will not do this! I keep a physical distance where necessary, but recently I've called more people than ever before - relatives, old friends,... so no social distance for me!

People at risk can (and maybe should?) lock themselves away as much as they want. However, the virus is going to be there for the next month and years, with a vaccine coming earliest in a year or so. I will not lock myself away until then.

Hmm, I don't entirely agree with your attitude there, cat.

For me there are two considerations that I think call for taking exceptional steps and enduring some isolation, even for an extended period. The first is the risk of infecting someone else who could fall very sick and potentially die. Personally I'm thinking mainly of family members, but of course it goes for anybody else as well. In the contact tracing they've done, they've identified people who only had mild symptoms (or no symptoms at all) who went on to infect scores of people and killing several directly â€" for example one person in Chicago who attended a wake and infected fifty people, three of whom died. That's not something I want on my conscience.

The other is that while the pandemic now appears to be under control in many places, it will only remain so as long as we keep the infection rate R0 below or close to 1. And because of how infectious this disease is, if everybody followed your example, that would probably not be the case, and we'd see renewed exponential growth once again threaten to overwhelm our health system. (And again in personal terms: I have a lot of family members who are health care workers and would bear the brunt of the crisis, and who stand a high risk of infection.)

And I know you dislike the term "social distancing", but I think it makes a certain amount of sense. Of course it doesn't apply to telecommunication, but we limit direct social contact (handshakes, hugs, etc.) and maintain physical distance in social settings. And to me it suggests that while a single individual can physically distance themselves, social distancing is something we, paradoxically, have to do together. It's an expression of solidarity.

Quote from: Babar on Sun 12/04/2020 16:46:09
Long term lockdown is indeed probably not sustainable, but something for a few weeks? We've never it done on such a scale before, but I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand.

A few weeks can be an infinitely long time for women and children trapped with their abusers (and there's been lots of news reports of an increase of domestic violence in the wake of the lockdown),
and for poor people with rent to pay who barely make ends meet in regular times and cannot work from home, nor afford to stay home from work. And what of the homeless who have no place to go?

I do the best I can to keep my hands to myself and keep them clean, and I avoid going near people in public, but you can't put all of human society on pause and expect said pause to outlast a virus.

Quote from: Blondbraid on Mon 13/04/2020 18:49:20
I do the best I can to keep my hands to myself and keep them clean, and I avoid going near people in public, but you can't put all of human society on pause and expect said pause to outlast a virus.

Exactly that.

I wonder if there is some genetic reason for some countries being affected more than others. Not that on the surface of things there would be that many common genetic similarities between (eg) italians and germans.
Anyway, maybe it is just that those countries which had closed schools/businesses etc sooner, had next to no deaths. Eg here schools and businesses closed pretty much when there were no deaths and only 2 cases of (known) infected, and the overall death toll is still just below 100 (99 afaik by today).

I think that the british government should be held accountable for doing next to nothing for so long, and even delaying closing pubs.

I don't think there are genetic reasons, but this is related to measures taken by the government (in Italy people with symptoms went to doctors or hospitals while in Austria they are advised to stay at home and call a special phone number with doctors coming and testing them), the general situation of the health system (from what I've heard very bad in Italy, almost collapsing every year with the regular flu), the living situation (elderly live on their own vs. together with the rest of the family),...

There are numbers that the average age of infected persons in Italy is above 60 while in Germany it is below 50. This suggests that only severe cases were tested in Italy and much more people were actually infected.
It also differs how deaths are counted - did they die because of Corona or having Corona (i.e. would they have died anyway).

What is interesting is the fact that significantly more men than women seem to die from it. Does anyone have any information regarding this? Is this because of genetic reasons, hormones or maybe social reasons (e.g. women living healthier lives, less smoking etc)

Don't know about that, but I've wondered why children seem to almost unaffected by this. My theory, which experts may prove or deny (since I can't possibly be the one one thinking this) is that maybe they are being "protected" by child vaccines, ones that the older you get the "weaker" their effect might be? But we do know that kids also test positive and few have died while infected (if they died of covid-19 or something else is another story). Did this kids had their vaccines? Are they the ones parents decided not to vaccine them?
I don't know, probably this is pure speculation on my part and there is absolutely no correlation with the two (but hope those experts that can check and are after a vaccine/treatment, explore this rute, even if only to dismiss it).

I don't think genetics has anything to do with this, the virus doesn't seem to care about it anyway. Unless some people are genetically more "immune" than others, since we do know that there's a big percentage of the population that is infected and has no symptoms whatsoever.

Every time I hear the recommendation of "if you are sick or have these ... symptoms stay at home until 48 hours after you are symptom free." makes me feel like laughing (or crying depending on the situation)... specially when we know that are people testing positive for over a month... I'm not sure 48 hours will do anything except giving us a false sense of security.  (wtf)

Quarantine means 40 days  :=

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Mon 13/04/2020 20:46:56
I wonder if there is some genetic reason for some countries being affected more than others. Not that on the surface of things there would be that many common genetic similarities between (eg) italians and germans.

Well, as far as I know less percentage of the population died from the black plague in Sweden and Norway than in the parts of Europe further south,
but there has been lots of population shifts since the middle ages and there are a great deal of cultural and lifestyle differences to account for besides the genetic.

As for men being more vulnerable to the virus, I bet it's lots of the same reasons men live shorter lives in general, because statistically more men smoke, eat more meat, more overweight, are less likely to seek medical help
and less likely to maintain closer relationships to friends and relatives (which would mean that they are less likely to have someone looking out for their wellbeing if they show signs of declining health).

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Mon 13/04/2020 22:08:00
Don't know about that, but I've wondered why children seem to almost unaffected by this. My theory, which experts may prove or deny (since I can't possibly be the one one thinking this) is that maybe they are being "protected" by child vaccines, ones that the older you get the "weaker" their effect might be? But we do know that kids also test positive and few have died while infected (if they died of covid-19 or something else is another story). Did this kids had their vaccines? Are they the ones parents decided not to vaccine them?
I don't know, probably this is pure speculation on my part and there is absolutely no correlation with the two (but hope those experts that can check and are after a vaccine/treatment, explore this rute, even if only to dismiss it).

I think it's because children's immune systems are still developing, so it's more sensitive and reacts quicker and stronger on some diseases.

Quote from: Blondbraid on Mon 13/04/2020 22:29:22
I think it's because children's immune systems are still developing, so it's more sensitive and reacts quicker and stronger on some diseases.

This seems to be one reason. Another one I've heard of is, that children have less of those cells/receptors/whatever where the virus enters the body but people who take certain medication (especially for heart conditions) have more or more sensitive ones. Some data suggests that children not only have less symptoms, but there also seem to be less positive tests for children that had close contact to infected people which means they are not very likely to spread the virus.

Btw, I've heard that in Denmark schools and kindergartens open today - this is great news!

I believe it is down to the immune system being either strong or weak.

Quote from: cat on Mon 13/04/2020 21:11:02
What is interesting is the fact that significantly more men than women seem to die from it. Does anyone have any information regarding this? Is this because of genetic reasons, hormones or maybe social reasons (e.g. women living healthier lives, less smoking etc)

Can't remember exactly where I saw it but I think this is due to a high percentage of Covid-19 related deaths being in patients with underlying cardiac conditions, which are more prevalent in men than women.

The genetic variation between populations is an explanation people love to reach for, but I think we imagine much bigger genetic differences between nations/ethnicites/races than there actually are. Inherited predispositions to diseases do exist, but it takes us down a very dodgy road to start speculating that Italy and New York might suffering particularly badly because of "Italian genes".  Especially when there are much simpler, less eugenic, explanations.

Afaik in NY non-causasian people are hit harder, and it seems to be about relative poverty and lack of state measures there (late enforcement of quarantine being apparently key).
Besides, Britain has been one of the worst cases.

Quote from: Ali on Wed 15/04/2020 15:10:13
The genetic variation between populations is an explanation people love to reach for, but I think we imagine much bigger genetic differences between nations/ethnicites/races than there actually are. Inherited predispositions to diseases do exist, but it takes us down a very dodgy road to start speculating that Italy and New York might suffering particularly badly because of "Italian genes".  Especially when there are much simpler, less eugenic, explanations.

Yeah, I think that with Italy especially, two big reasons are that they have a large percentage of older people in their population, plus many who smoke, both of which are risk factors,
but it also hit them at a time when many tourists were visiting the ski resorts in the alps, which would have contributed to the virus hitting Italy sooner than less popular tourist destinations.

At least in Sweden, some of the first confirmed cases of this virus came from people who'd been in ski resorts in Italy. Way too many people think it's OK to leave hygiene behind when they're being tourists.

Yes, Schools are opening, not all opened today and some are open in turns (like 0 and 1st classe, then 2nd and 3rd, and so on, to give the smaller kids a better change to grasp the rules).
Our School opened today and we were happy to send our son to school, finally! But it's not "same as usual", lots of new rules and social distancing (2 meters between each student, toilets to each class, doors to each classes and lots of lots of hand washing during the day).

But older kids will still have to wait for their schools to open. 

If you ever wanted to grow a mullet now you have an excuse! Originally when my hair started to get too long I suggested my mom take me to the barber, but she was worried about catching the CoronaVirus. Now that the whole state is locked down none of us could go out to get a haircut even if we wanted to.

**Children are dying alone in hospital without their mum / dad... it's beyond my comprehension and is insanity... And billions of people are sitting on their backsides allowing it to happen...

In a sad scene that is increasingly being played out across the country, in the early hours of Tuesday morning a patient with coronavirus was taken off a ventilator at a hospital in south-east London.

A matron told the Guardian (Newspaper): “It is heartbreaking that he died without his family being able to hold his hands or giving him a goodbye kiss but at least they saw him in his final moments via a video link.

My partner cut my hair two days ago and he did a great job!

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 19/04/2020 11:32:12
**Children are dying alone in hospital without their mum / dad... it's beyond my comprehension and is insanity... And billions of people are sitting on their backsides allowing it to happen...

In a sad scene that is increasingly being played out across the country, in the early hours of Tuesday morning a patient with coronavirus was taken off a ventilator at a hospital in south-east London.

A matron told the Guardian (Newspaper): “It is heartbreaking that he died without his family being able to hold his hands or giving him a goodbye kiss but at least they saw him in his final moments via a video link.

What? That's insane! I fully understand isolating people who are at risk but otherwise have a chance to go back to their lives once there is a vaccine, but forcing people to die alone and prohibiting their family from seeing them one last time because of corona is madness.
If my choice was between maybe getting a virus that would give me flu symptoms and force me to isolate myself for two weeks, or letting a loved one die without anyone close to them by their side, I know what I would choose.

Quote from: mkennedy on Sat 18/04/2020 21:12:19
If you ever wanted to grow a mullet now you have an excuse! Originally when my hair started to get too long I suggested my mom take me to the barber, but she was worried about catching the CoronaVirus. Now that the whole state is locked down none of us could go out to get a haircut even if we wanted to.

As for haircuts, I've never got what's the deal with them. As my username implies, I just save a ton of time and money by just letting it grow, keeping it tied into a braid so it don't get in the way, and simply cut off a decimeter or two one every year when it gets so long I accidentally sit on it. Easiest haircut in the world, AND people keep praising you for having such great dedication to keeping your hair long because they don't realize it's literally the easiest hairstyle in the world.

While the current projections are estimating 400,000 dead if social distancing isn't taken seriously here in Japan, I just had a TEPCO (Tokyo Electric Power) worker come to my door today to do the annual safety check of my house's wiring.

They have to come into the house to do so. I had to get out of the bath to hear what he was saying and I'm not sure if I heard correctly, but I think he was saying that, because of the risk of infection, I was supposed to leave the house before he came in to do the check.

I yelled that I couldn't hear him properly and also had to put some clothes on. He said something I didn't hear. By the time I was dressed he was next door so I went out on my bicycle on an isolated errand to avoid him.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't just a burglar/scammer. He looked legit. But I will be F'd if I'm gonna let someone who has been inside 100 or whatever houses today come into my house for any reason. The government is telling people to isolate and a branch of the same government is telling me they want to come into my house?

F THAT!!!

@Blondbraid: It totally depends on the type of hair. I've had long hair worn with a ponytail or without for like 20 years. But it actually didn't really suit me. When I finally got my hair cut I got so many compliments, even from people I don't know that well, because it just fit my hair and face much better.

Back to topic: Since today our kid is in "emergency kindergarten", i.e. only kids of people who work are allowed there. It is still a very small group because many people are afraid and keep their kids at home, but it is better than nothing.

I’m approaching the end of the 2nd week of my “lockdown”. It’s not so bad. As my boy is nearly 5 months old, I’ve been treating this “Tommy Time”, the paternity leave I never got the first time round.

We’ve been going out for a little walk around the block most days, but being sure to keep a safe distance away from anyone. I live in very a quiet area. Despite being technically in Tokyo, it’s actually considered basically countryside, so are few people out and about. But these past two weeks it has been notably busier out on the street than ever before. I think that instead of staying home, people are simply taking themselves out of the big crowded spots and coming to the “countryside” instead.

Well, at least 13 people signed up for the new circle of my online seminar, so that's some more euros for myself. Assuming rent price will fall (due to the crisis), it should mean I would have enough money to rent for a year, so that is some compensation.

Yes, the lockdown means you can spend more time with your children... which is a good thing...

I just hope that the predicted economic crash does not come because we will all be forced to stay at home rather more than we want...

I would like to know how everyone is doing through these tough times and if anyone knows someone that has proved positive for Covid-19 and the outcome.

This is part of my research that spans over 300 hours..

Yes, several people.

Two family friends who had it were in pretty poor shape, but didn't need to be hospitalized.

And sadly, a colleague who contracted it passed away recently.

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 28/04/2020 12:37:49
Yes, several people.

Two family friends who had it were in pretty poor shape, but didn't need to be hospitalized.

And sadly, a colleague who contracted it passed away recently.

Sad to hear about colleague passing away... Elderly? Existing health problems? Or young and very healthy?

Take it easy Snarky

Jeez. Sorry to hear about your colleague, Snarky. But glad your friends pulled through.

I don’t know anyone who has definitely had it but I know a few acquaintances who think or suspect they have had it, to varying degrees of severity, but without having been tested they’re not sure.

Quote from: Stupot on Tue 28/04/2020 12:47:35
Jeez. Sorry to hear about your colleague, Snarky. But glad your friends pulled through.

I don’t know anyone who has definitely had it but I know a few acquaintances who think or suspect they have had it, to varying degrees of severity, but without having been tested they’re not sure.

Just glad it all worked out for them..

In the UK if you have flu like symptoms you may have Covid-19 (so we are informed).

Hence we have Lockdown to stop any spread..

My findings/discoveries at the moment question all this chaos....

People may not agree with me but don't throw out the bath water until you have made sure the baby is out of the bath...

Sounds like you've studied at Youtube university like a true boomer again? Awesome. Please don't hold back with inane conspiracy bullshit, err, I mean, your "findings".
I'm trying to understand how the baby and the bathwater analogy applies to the point you're trying to make, because isn't easing the lockdown prematurely exactly as bad as throwing out the bathwater while the baby is still inside? Even though that analogy is usually used to illustrate something completely different?

The replication factor in Germany went from 0.7 back to above 1.0 since the regulations were relaxed. I wonder if there's a connection...?

I don't know anybody who died, but I do have a few cases in the "friend of a friend" category. And my girlfriend's boss, (who's predictably being a complete idiot about the entire crisis) seemed to only realize that this is all real when one of the other employees mentioned that her aunt had died of Covid.

H Khris,

glad you got your 2 penn'th in again ;)

I'm not saying take the Lockdown off.. I expect it to last quite a while yet...  though may be back on again later with an immediate Lockdown..  let's see...

I would be interested in knowing how you came to your assumptions about the whole crises.. Where do you get your information from and what do you know that I don't?

I'm as concerned as most people are about the whole darn issue.. My search for a truth should not be shunned..I am like a dog with a bone... Everyone has the right to believe what they want..  and if I am wrong I don't care... at least I looked into it and not sat on my butt accepting it all like a meek sheep..

The bathwater was relating to checking out other avenues before you are make a final conclusion..

What will we tell our children/grandchildren when they ask 'what did you do when this was all happening?'

Just agree to disagree and take the vaccine and so be it..

I wish you well and hope it all turns out ok in the end ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Tue 28/04/2020 12:54:26

Quote from: Stupot on Tue 28/04/2020 12:47:35
Jeez. Sorry to hear about your colleague, Snarky. But glad your friends pulled through.

I don’t know anyone who has definitely had it but I know a few acquaintances who think or suspect they have had it, to varying degrees of severity, but without having been tested they’re not sure.

In the UK if you have flu like symptoms you may have Covid-19 (so we are informed).

Really? From what I've heard in the news, they've been attributing every single symptom that's ever been reported in the history on of humanity, as being a symptom of Covid-19.
The most recent one was, and I kid you not... a rash.

I mean, I guess it might be possible. But it's equally possible that my computer could suddenly overheat and catch on fire. But it's so unlikely, it's not even worth mentioning.  :-\

Danvzare

I have recently received a Covid-19 advice leaflet from the government.. showing symptoms etc.

QuoteReally? From what I've heard in the news, they've been attributing every single symptom that's ever been reported in the history on of humanity, as being a symptom of Covid-19.

Why are they contributing a lot of deaths to Covid-19? Could $39,000 be the reason... and what is it based on?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

Make of it what you will...

Quote from: Slasher on Tue 28/04/2020 12:41:17
Sad to hear about colleague passing away... Elderly? Existing health problems? Or young and very healthy?

Middle-aged, seemed fit and perfectly healthy (but of course I do not know their full medical history). It was definitely COVID-19, confirmed by test and contact tracing.

It's certainly a good thing to inform yourself and think critically, but to believe that experts all the world around and the whole medical community are wrong or lying and that you will see through it is… bonkers. We can see for ourselves that there is a pandemic going on. Stats of deaths compared to an average year show that if anything, we're significantly underreporting the toll of COVID-19. And while I don't personally have medical expertise to vet any of the vast amount of research being done on the disease or the SARS-CoV-2 virus, I have family members who do, and they have no doubt whatsoever that this is real, and that the virus is responsible.

Conspiracy theories that contend that the disease is not real or not dangerous, or that the medical advice of experts should be ignored, are irrational and highly irresponsible.

Snarky,

There is a Corona virus and it is real and can make you ill...  just not Covid-19

It seems that Trump has rejected Bill Gates and Dr. Fauci 's predictive contagion model, and is now working with the real data, states Surgeon General Jerome Adams.

In crisis like this it is always a good thing to let off some steam by insulting someone who is wrong.

Quote from: blur on Tue 28/04/2020 17:14:06
In crisis like this it is always a good thing to let off some steam by insulting someone who is wrong.

That will only give you stress/HBP, lowering your immune system and leave you open.... Go ahead, SHOUT   (laugh)

blur: How do you really know who is right and who is wrong?

I sure hope that Trump isn't your "right"...  8-0

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Tue 28/04/2020 17:29:30
I sure hope that Trump isn't your "right"...  8-0

Ok.... I will sit back and we can all see how the next few months go... and just hope we can all be free and have a happy world ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Tue 28/04/2020 17:09:16

There is a Corona virus and it is real and can make you ill...  just not Covid-19

You realize that this makes zero sense, right? First of all, there is not just one coronavirus. Corona is a group of viruses, but the one we discuss right now is a new-found one. Second, and more important, COVID19 is, by definition, the illness that comes from this new-found variant of corona. Again, this is simple definition. To say that people get sick from corona but it is not COVID19 makes no sense.

I'm reminded of the old joke about how The Iliad and Odyssey were not written by Homer, but by another poet with the same name.

But it's not really a laughing matter. A person I knew (not well, but as an acquaintance) died, as have hundreds of thousands of others, having tested positive for SARS-CoV-2, the novel Coronavirus. While we don't know exactly what factors determine whether the illness ends up being mild or deadly, there is no question that the virus is responsible.

The new coronavirus did hit some countries hard. Some others almost had no deaths, though (100-300). In the US an original estimate by the head epidemiologist there was for around 150.000 dead, later revised to the 50.000-60000 we see now.
Anyway, let's hope nothing worse follows this.

I can't work out what the actual conspiracy is that you seem to be suggesting, Slasher. That Covid-19 doesn't exist?

It sounds like you've gone down a bit of a YouTube rabbit hole watching those "documentaries" like that Wayne Dupree one my mum sent me the other day claiming China caused the outbreak because... 5G... or something... and masts and Spain and Huawei. Those things serve up such a jumbled mix of fact, half-truths and downright fabrications to make something that might sort of seem legit that it's hard to know exactly what it is they're claiming (because the more specific they are the more easily they can be debunked). Throw in some pro-Trump propaganda for good measure (usually that HE knows the real truth and is not playing along with the lie).

The man that every time opens his mouth, I have to check the calendar to make sure it's not 1st April...  (wtf)

There is no doubt that very soon we will have a different world,  let's hope it is all good  (nod)

Don't shun me just because I'm asking questions, pushing the envelope and looking down the rabbit hole..

Well, it isn't out of the question that worse will follow. I mean the global situation wasn't exactly great even before the coronavirus.

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 11:54:10
Don't shun me just because I'm asking questions, pushing the envelope and looking down the rabbit hole...

Don't look down rabbit holes on the internet. They are NOT research nor will they ever lead you to any real truth.

If you can find a conspiracy theory on the internet then you can be guaranteed that it is nonsense and that somebody is profiting from the ignorance of the people who follow it.

If there was actually a grand conspiracy going on, the last place someone would whistle-blow it is on the fucking internet.

They would just go to the regular news outlets and divulge it there.

The internet is too full of bullshit for any kernel of truth about an actual conspiracy to have any chance of survival.

Hi Mandle.

Who controls and has funded the mainstream media that you so believe in?

Doctors and scientist that have questioned were told to 'Shut up'..

Take it easy ;)

Quote from: blur on Tue 28/04/2020 17:14:06
In crisis like this it is always a good thing to let off some steam by insulting someone who is wrong.

Indeed (https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=54351.msg636578022#msg636578022).

slasher:
Since you apparently believe pretty much anything you read or hear online, make sure you also give this (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/2019-20_COVID-19_outbreak) a read, in order to get a fuller picture. Note that like in other reputable wikis, everything you'll read there is fully sourced (contrary to many BS-spreading outlets).

(Also, an this should go without saying: people who are skeptical about random online BS do not necessarily believe anything they read in mainstream media. In fact, most people who have learned not to trust random online BS apply the same critical thinking to any claim/source.)

Quote from: Khris on Wed 29/04/2020 13:24:35

Quote from: blur on Tue 28/04/2020 17:14:06
In crisis like this it is always a good thing to let off some steam by insulting someone who is wrong.

Indeed (https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=54351.msg636578022#msg636578022).

(laugh)

Going back to our original topic...

During this Lockdown I am reading a book (first in ages).. It's called Medusa (fiction) by Clive Cussler... I am up to page 60 of 517.. Hopefully keep me engrossed for a while ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 11:54:10
There is no doubt that very soon we will have a different world,  let's hope it is all good  (nod)

Don't shun me just because I'm asking questions, pushing the envelope and looking down the rabbit hole..

Actually, I'd like you to stop being coy and just come out and say what you mean. Make a testable prediction: What is going to happen in the next few months that the media doesn't want us to know about?

And then we'll see, by the end of the year or whatever, whether you were right.

'Cause I'm sick of what has become the MO of so much conspiracy theory-mongering: insinuate, "ask questions", but never outright say what it is you're suggesting, probably because that way (1) it would become evident just how batshit the theory is, and (2) what you say could be disproved. If you're going to insult us by calling us sheep and wondering what we'll say when our grandchildren ask what we did "when this was all happening," you at least should have the courage to stand by your theory about what is happening.

Hi Snarky,

Thanks Snarky for your frank response..

Whatever I say or predict here would not be believed as many believe in what is happening to be as per governments / mainstream media and believe the figures of reported deaths from a virus to be true, indeed a virus does exist in itself but the figures are not the true figures.

If you want candid, straight talk I will do it only by PM... Not here..

Thanks Snarky... Take it easy..

I am on page 120 of the book i'm reading ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 16:32:30
If you want candid, straight talk I will do it only by PM... Not here..

Fine, if that's how you want it.

As for lockdown activities, I've succumbed to the peer pressure and done some baking. (Had a yearning for skolebrød, and since I'm not going to the bakery…) Except the stores are out of yeast, so first I had to grow my own (following the instructions making the rounds on Twitter etc.: mix fruit juice and flour and let ferment). It worked, but it took six hours for the dough to rise. Glad I started in the morning.

Baking?

I must buy you an apron  (laugh)

Yarr, watching dough rise is no fun  ;)

Hope the taste is worth it  ;)

Still, keeps you busy and out of trouble (laugh)

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 16:32:30
Whatever I say or predict here would not be believed as many believe in what is happening to be as per governments / mainstream media and believe the figures of reported deaths from a virus to be true, indeed a virus does exist in itself but the figures are not the true figures.

Is it the plot to keep everyone inside while 5G is installed? Or maybe the one where the asteroid is going to hit the Earth (possibly today) and we all die from that, and the governments all decided we should stay with our families for the short remaining time we have left?

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 29/04/2020 18:45:06

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 16:32:30
Whatever I say or predict here would not be believed as many believe in what is happening to be as per governments / mainstream media and believe the figures of reported deaths from a virus to be true, indeed a virus does exist in itself but the figures are not the true figures.

Is it the plot to keep everyone inside while 5G is installed? Or maybe the one where the asteroid is going to hit the Earth (possibly today) and we all die from that, and the governments all decided we should stay with our families for the short remaining time we have left?

I sense sarcasm

You're the one with the big theories...  tell me, Prof. Mandle 8-0

I have a more pragmatic conspiracy theory: it's a plot by the food delivery companies to conquer the market.

Quote from: Snarky on Wed 29/04/2020 17:54:08

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 16:32:30
If you want candid, straight talk I will do it only by PM... Not here..

Fine, if that's how you want it.

As for lockdown activities, I've succumbed to the peer pressure and done some baking. (Had a yearning for skolebrød, and since I'm not going to the bakery…) Except the stores are out of yeast, so first I had to grow my own (following the instructions making the rounds on Twitter etc.: mix fruit juice and flour and let ferment). It worked, but it took six hours for the dough to rise. Glad I started in the morning.

I've tried making some simple cakes recently, this one in particular (http://matochmera.se/recepie.php?recepie_id=14093), though I haven't found an English version of it to share yet.
More people stuck indoors could try learning to make new things.

What a lovely cake. Yummy ;)

Well, those home food deliveries are in their elements ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 18:56:53

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 29/04/2020 18:45:06

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 29/04/2020 16:32:30
Whatever I say or predict here would not be believed as many believe in what is happening to be as per governments / mainstream media and believe the figures of reported deaths from a virus to be true, indeed a virus does exist in itself but the figures are not the true figures.

Is it the plot to keep everyone inside while 5G is installed? Or maybe the one where the asteroid is going to hit the Earth (possibly today) and we all die from that, and the governments all decided we should stay with our families for the short remaining time we have left?

I sense sarcasm

You're the one with the big theories...  tell me, Prof. Mandle 8-0

It wasn't sarcasm, and they aren't my theories. They are just the main ones I've heard being bandied around on the internet.

There's also the one that this is a deliberate attempt at population control by some shady behind-the-scenes Illuminati and several more versions of the 5G insanity.

None of these are viable in reality though. The virus IS related to the overpopulation issue though, but that's just a natural consequence of overpopulation. The same thing happens in the animal kingdom when one species overpopulates. They either starve or get hit with a sickness that whacks their numbers back down. It's just a natural result of overcrowding.

@Snarky
I just looked up skolebrød and it looks delicious. How did yours turn out?
I think watching dough rise is amazing, a bit like putting seeds in soil and waiting for the plant to grow.
Is yeast the new toilet paper? It's also not available here as well, but just the regular small packs. You can get 500g packs or the supermarket will sell cut up slices of those packs.
I still buy bread and pastries at local bakeries because I want to support them (they are already suffering since they can't deliver to restaurants etc atm) and I still love to eat nice stuff.

@Blondbraid
Sounds delicious! I don't eat chocolate, but maybe I should make some kanelbullar next weekend. You usually don't get them here (and IKEA is closed as well)

Luckily, next week the rest of the stores + shopping centers are going to open here. I'm looking much forward to it, because I need some important stuff and had some bad experience with mail order recently. Also restaurants will finally open mid May.

Is Britain set to become #2 in deaths? I hadn't followed the news there for a week, and was alarmed by the current number of dead.
Boris sure botched everything up - it's what you get for voting in this clown...

As many have noticed, Sweden is taking a very different route here.
I don't want to be another hobby epidemiologist, so I'll just try to convey what the Swedish authorities are doing and saying.

1. We don't think this is a hoax, or exaggerated. We all believe it's very real. We don't congregate and rally to protest the restrictions, like the American rednecks. A vast majority of Swedes actually take a lot of distancing measures.
2. Tegnell isn't a manic street preacher. He's the spokesperson of the national health agency. It has hundreds of scientists and experts.
3. The fundamental idea, based on their simulations and models, is that voluntary social distancing works pretty much as effectively as a hard lockdown. Whether this will turn out true or false is impossible to say at this early phase, but the numbers are quite alarming.
4. A complete lockdown has a number of bad side effects, like increased domestic abuse, children removed from the safety net of society, isolation fatigue and depressions, etc. Can you say it's worth it? Hard to know at this point. But we Swedes have a strong belief in the system.
5. We're doing much worse than our Nordic neighbours, but quite average in a larger perspective. We're not in the top ten when it comes to deaths per capita. We've also reported more deaths than most countries, and Sweden is one of few nations that haven't underreported our deaths.
6. I'm personally a bit divided, and I definitely think there are some areas where restrictions could be much harsher.

While the deaths here have been negligible (120 or something, in a population of 11 million), it may change with the influx of tourists from heavily hit countries. Usually small hotel owners are elderly.

Quote from: cat on Thu 30/04/2020 07:55:10
@Blondbraid
Sounds delicious! I don't eat chocolate, but maybe I should make some kanelbullar next weekend. You usually don't get them here (and IKEA is closed as well)

Luckily, next week the rest of the stores + shopping centers are going to open here. I'm looking much forward to it, because I need some important stuff and had some bad experience with mail order recently. Also restaurants will finally open mid May.

You should definitively bake your own kanelbullar if you have the time for it, I've never found a store-bought one that could match fresh homemade ones, plus it's a great activity to do with your kids!

Quote from: Andail on Thu 30/04/2020 09:10:15
As many have noticed, Sweden is taking a very different route here.
I don't want to be another hobby epidemiologist, so I'll just try to convey what the Swedish authorities are doing and saying.

1. We don't think this is a hoax, or exaggerated. We all believe it's very real. We don't congregate and rally to protest the restrictions, like the American rednecks. A vast majority of Swedes actually take a lot of distancing measures.
2. Tegnell isn't a manic street preacher. He's the spokesperson of the national health agency. It has hundreds of scientists and experts.
3. The fundamental idea, based on their simulations and models, is that voluntary social distancing works pretty much as effectively as a hard lockdown. Whether this will turn out true or false is impossible to say at this early phase, but the numbers are quite alarming.
4. A complete lockdown has a number of bad side effects, like increased domestic abuse, children removed from the safety net of society, isolation fatigue and depressions, etc. Can you say it's worth it? Hard to know at this point. But we Swedes have a strong belief in the system.
5. We're doing much worse than our Nordic neighbours, but quite average in a larger perspective. We're not in the top ten when it comes to deaths per capita. We've also reported more deaths than most countries, and Sweden is one of few nations that haven't underreported our deaths.
6. I'm personally a bit divided, and I definitely think there are some areas where restrictions could be much harsher.

As a fellow Swede, I can confirm all of this. Too many people seem to think Sweden have done no measures at all, which isn't true, and while there are less restrictions, everyone in the news and on the streets alike are still talking about the virus and many commercial signs have been replaced with reminders to keep one's distance and keep one's hands clean, so you can't miss that the corona situation is still ongoing.

Sweden (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/) is a country of 10 million people. Ireland (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/ireland/) is roughly half that. One is in "total" lockdown, the other is taking a more voluntary approach.

Both have around 20k cases (Sweden has double the confirmed deaths).

What does this prove? Dunno. :-\

It lends credence to the claim, though, that lockdowns and social-distancing generally work to slow the spread of the virus, either separately or in tandem, and that people who are ignoring one or the other (or both) are a danger to themselves and to others.

Quote from: Andail on Thu 30/04/2020 09:10:15
As many have noticed, Sweden is taking a very different route here.
I don't want to be another hobby epidemiologist, so I'll just try to convey what the Swedish authorities are doing and saying.

1. We don't think this is a hoax, or exaggerated. We all believe it's very real. We don't congregate and rally to protest the restrictions, like the American rednecks. A vast majority of Swedes actually take a lot of distancing measures.
2. Tegnell isn't a manic street preacher. He's the spokesperson of the national health agency. It has hundreds of scientists and experts.
3. The fundamental idea, based on their simulations and models, is that voluntary social distancing works pretty much as effectively as a hard lockdown. Whether this will turn out true or false is impossible to say at this early phase, but the numbers are quite alarming.
4. A complete lockdown has a number of bad side effects, like increased domestic abuse, children removed from the safety net of society, isolation fatigue and depressions, etc. Can you say it's worth it? Hard to know at this point. But we Swedes have a strong belief in the system.
5. We're doing much worse than our Nordic neighbours, but quite average in a larger perspective. We're not in the top ten when it comes to deaths per capita. We've also reported more deaths than most countries, and Sweden is one of few nations that haven't underreported our deaths.
6. I'm personally a bit divided, and I definitely think there are some areas where restrictions could be much harsher.

If only there weren't so many idiots.  I would rather voluntary social distancing and self isolation be the way here, but there would not be enough volunteers to make it work.  I hate the idea of giving up liberty for safety.  If they were only going to hurt themselves, I'd say to hell with them, but they spread the disease to others and make for a very dangerous situation.  Some people need laws and orders to keep them from doing dumb and hazardous things.  They're kind of like those people who say the only thing that keeps them from murder is their god saying "Thou shalt not kill."  They need to have some morality and rationality of their own.  Common sense is not very common.

So, in the meantime, I'm glad that there are lockdown orders in place (for now), because the threat is very real and people are literally dying in large numbers that can be significantly mitigated by such measures.  It just sets a deadly precedent for what the government is capable of, so I'm wary.

Quote from: cat on Thu 30/04/2020 07:55:10
@Snarky
I just looked up skolebrød and it looks delicious. How did yours turn out?

OK, which I consider a disappointment. A well-made one should be delicious (and I'm usually pretty good at making them). But I just reheated one, and accidentally lightly toasted the coconut flakes: that actually made it better!

I don't think I've made kanelbullar (cinnamon rolls) in at least twenty years. Maybe I should go for that next. I bought some licorice powder for baking that I've never found a use for, but I've seen kanelbulle recipes that call for it.

A third voice from the Cinnamon Kingdom.

Quote from: Andail on Thu 30/04/2020 09:10:15
As many have noticed, Sweden is taking a very different route here.
I don't want to be another hobby epidemiologist, so I'll just try to convey what the Swedish authorities are doing and saying.

1. We don't think this is a hoax, or exaggerated. We all believe it's very real. We don't congregate and rally to protest the restrictions, like the American rednecks. A vast majority of Swedes actually take a lot of distancing measures.
2. Tegnell isn't a manic street preacher. He's the spokesperson of the national health agency. It has hundreds of scientists and experts.
3. The fundamental idea, based on their simulations and models, is that voluntary social distancing works pretty much as effectively as a hard lockdown. Whether this will turn out true or false is impossible to say at this early phase, but the numbers are quite alarming.
4. A complete lockdown has a number of bad side effects, like increased domestic abuse, children removed from the safety net of society, isolation fatigue and depressions, etc. Can you say it's worth it? Hard to know at this point. But we Swedes have a strong belief in the system.
5. We're doing much worse than our Nordic neighbours, but quite average in a larger perspective. We're not in the top ten when it comes to deaths per capita. We've also reported more deaths than most countries, and Sweden is one of few nations that haven't underreported our deaths.
6. I'm personally a bit divided, and I definitely think there are some areas where restrictions could be much harsher.

All very good points, indeed. I fear that we simply cannot tell how this will all end until the immediate danger is over, and we can tally the costs.

As for me, I cannot say that I am particularly pleased with the response and the measures in place. I think it would have been better to batter down the hatches earlier, and taken decisive measures when it would have mattered. Nonetheless, the chief words are 'would have'. It is too late, and the route has been chosen. There is nothing for it, but to obey the restrictions and hope for the best. It is as it is, and I think it is better to save the shouting for when it is over. Although, I must admit that the tactic is working better than I would have thought. Keeping most people mostly safe most of the time, as it were. For all its faults, this lockdown-light method is at least reasonably substainable, in the long term. Some seem to not give a fig for distancing or isolation at all, but if most people do, most of the time... Well.

The chief problem was that the infection rather quickly wormed itself into care homes for the eldery, where a lot of the casualties seem to stem. If it was a calculated risk or a failing of the system, I cannot say. I expect the answer will be thrashed out when the counting begins.

All of this is terribly easy for me to say, however. Although a lot of appointments I had in mind for this year are cancelled, my life is mostly normal. I cannot work from home, so it is business as usual. The shops are open, and with the initial panic gone, nothing in particular is missing - yet. It is a risk to calculate, to go out and support local businesses or to stay away. Many pubs and restaurants are open (since they cannot afford otherwise, and the authorities would rather not make them close and pay the difference), and you are at once encouraged to support them and to keep yourself at home. Calculated risks, all around.

I am not fond of the chosen path, but it is the one we have now, and even if they did implement the response I would have liked to see at the start of this dreary business, it is too late now. It is no less than my duty to comply, and hope for the best. One day, it will all be over bar the shouting.

It's also worth noting that most of the foreign news articles showing pictures of Swedes sitting in crowded cafés is completely misleading, weather intentionally or not (seriously, some of those pictures clearly look like stock images taken in the middle of summer), and I can say from personal experience that while people are moving out in the streets, virtually all restaurants and Cafés are empty and most people buy take-away if they get something at all. Wherever they get all crowded restaurant photos from, I have no idea, but I haven't seen any such sights this year where I live in Stockholm.

Quote from: Blondbraid on Fri 01/05/2020 22:51:42
(seriously, some of those pictures clearly look like stock images taken in the middle of summer)

So, the media gets a story about crowded restaurants in Sweden but have no pictures so they google "crowded Swedish restaurants" and use one of the stock photos for their article?
Sounds sleazy enough to be true.

Kanelbullar turned out fantastic!

Quote from: cat on Sat 02/05/2020 09:00:04
Kanelbullar turned out fantastic!

Aww... very delicious.. where's mine (laugh)

Now I want to bake... its a great way to spend time alone  ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Sat 02/05/2020 10:05:47
Now I want to bake... its a great way to spend time alone  ;)

Don't you mean "get baked"?  (laugh)

Hey, it's good to skim this thread and see everyone is alive. :)

Finally, things are slowly returning to normal here. Last weekend, I finally got a proper haircut, went to a restaurant and had a barbecue with friends.

You still have to wear a mask in shops and stuff, but at least people seem to get fed up by it and complain, which makes me happy (You have to know that people in my country love to complain. At the beginning of this whole shit, people were so scared that they would accept anything the government said. This made me more afraid than the virus itself)

Quote from: cat on Wed 20/05/2020 09:06:56
Finally, things are slowly returning to normal here. Last weekend, I finally got a proper haircut, went to a restaurant and had a barbecue with friends.

You still have to wear a mask in shops and stuff, but at least people seem to get fed up by it and complain, which makes me happy (You have to know that people in my country love to complain. At the beginning of this whole shit, people were so scared that they would accept anything the government said. This made me more afraid than the virus itself)

Yes, that's what's worried me about the whole lockdown, I've heard some scary stories of several leaders using it as an excuse to indefinitely implement more authoritarian laws, and paired with people straight up cheering on things like apps that trace the movements of the infected, all the ingredients for a dystopia is right there in the making.

For all the criticism the Swedish policy has garnered, I still think it was the right decision.

Hope everyone's well and keeping busy..

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 20/05/2020 10:28:37
Hope everyone's well and keeping busy..

Yep! Making games over here!

I've been working during lockdown, so it wasn't much of a lockdown I guess.  Rent's paid, things are the same as they have been, really.   Not too many people here in Vegas seem to be taking the virus seriously, which I think is a mistake.  I don't worry because I literally go to the office, work on games, come home, work on games.  I never went out before! ha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY6fzOorQKg

I would have wanted someone else as head of Labour than Starmer, but come on, Boris looks and sounds like a complete fraud.

Well, I'm sorry to say this guys, but it seems to me that the human race is
well and truly screwed. Nature has been fighting back, of late, culminating
in coronavirus. If, as some of the experts suggest, we will never be free of
this disease, homo sapiens could be wiped off the face of the Earth and it
will be no great loss. The damage caused by us will soon be healed. The
planet will be reborn in its former glory where flora and fauna can flourish.

Maybe we also were just the flora and fauna, until the previous species messed up ^_^

I am not sure if BarbWire is serious...

EDIT: maybe that was a joke... I don't know. nevermind.

Quote from: BarbWire on Wed 20/05/2020 16:14:40

Well, I'm sorry to say this guys, but it seems to me that the human race is
well and truly screwed. Nature has been fighting back, of late, culminating
in coronavirus. If, as some of the experts suggest, we will never be free of
this disease, homo sapiens could be wiped off the face of the Earth and it
will be no great loss. The damage caused by us will soon be healed. The
planet will be reborn in its former glory where flora and fauna can flourish.

Are you secretly Poison Ivy?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/cd/46/1ecd46c3372c73ba9437355bbbdab42c.jpg)

Oh, no! I have been unmasked. Blondbraid has discovered my true identity. :shocked:

I will have to change my Avatar now.  :grin:

Done!... The likeness is uncanny. :grin:

Quote from: BarbWire on Wed 20/05/2020 21:22:25
Oh, no! I have been unmasked. Blondbraid has discovered my true identity. :shocked:

I will have to change my Avatar now.  :grin:

Done!... The likeness is uncanny. :grin:

I knew it!  (laugh)

Glad none of you have lost your sense of humor ;)

We were talking a few pages back about whether we knew anyone who has had/got covid-19. Well my sister seems to have it. She works in the care sector and was coughed on by a man elderly patient who had already tested positive. There was a cockup and she wasn’t fully protected before being bunged in the same room as him, then he coughed in her face. That was about two weeks ago and she said three days later her symptoms started. She only told me the other day and she’s already been through all the symptoms but now just has a lingering cough that she can’t shift. She’s said she’s pretty sure she’s over the worst of it but is staying careful.

I said “seems” above because the strange thing is that she has had two coronavirus tests and they both came back negative. But the doctor herself said the test is only about 70% accurate and basically told her to assume it is Covid-19 and isolate accordingly.

So, if it wasn’t for those darned negative tests, I’d be able to honestly say I know someone who’s had/got it. And I’m talking about my own twin sister, not some friend-of-an-uncle’s-dog’s-mother-in-law’. I’m in little doubt it was coronavirus. Get’s coughed on by known patient, gets Terrible symptoms days later.

Yes, those damn false negatives are very annoying. 14 patients and health personal were recently infected in a hospital, even though both all personnel and new patients were tested a few days earlier and were all negative.  :-\

Just proves that you should treat all as infected (as in takes your preventive safety procedures and stuff) , no matter what the test says.

Best wished to your sister, Stupot.

Just this day I read an articles about having trained dogs do the tests by smell, and considering they've already had dogs successfully determine weather a patient has cancer by smell alone I'm surprised no one's thought of this sooner.

At this point I'd probably trust a trained dog more than all the haphazard cotton swab tests that's been done.

Hope your sister gets well soon, Stupot.

It's been at least a month since I heard they were going to train dogs for that effect. just not sure how long it takes to train a dog to sniff a virus...

Yes, I'd heard about them using dogs... ability to sniff out one V from trillions we already have... Let's see where that goes...

Stay safe and keep your immune system as good as you can...

Estimates for the number of viruses are about 320,000 total, and we know of 219 that infect humans.
These dogs don't smell the virus obviously, they smell very subtle changes in body odor which occur due to the infection. Especially in connection with respiratory diseases.

Quote from: Khris on Fri 22/05/2020 09:07:58
Estimates for the number of viruses are about 320,000 total, and we know of 219 that infect humans.
These dogs don't smell the virus obviously, they smell very subtle changes in body odor which occur due to the infection. Especially in connection with respiratory diseases.

Yeah, their sense of smell is incredibly powerful, there's even dogs that's been able to find things at the bottom of large bodies of water by scent alone.

Things are going crazy near where I live in the UK... Thieves are out on the pinch even more... even stealing someone's hot tub and 3 piece suite... and someone even took an outdoor fish pond  (roll)

It was reported that drones were flying over the borough...

They even took the kitchen sink. Absolute bedlam.

Italia is open again! 

...except for Greece and Austria.

_

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 31/05/2020 18:20:56
Things are going crazy near where I live in the UK... Thieves are out on the pinch even more... even stealing someone's hot tub and 3 piece suite... and someone even took an outdoor fish pond  (roll)

It was reported that drones were flying over the borough...

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 01/06/2020 01:09:18
They even took the kitchen sink. Absolute bedlam.

What have I missed?  ???

Quote from: Blondbraid on Mon 01/06/2020 22:50:59

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 31/05/2020 18:20:56
Things are going crazy near where I live in the UK... Thieves are out on the pinch even more... even stealing someone's hot tub and 3 piece suite... and someone even took an outdoor fish pond  (roll)

It was reported that drones were flying over the borough...

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 01/06/2020 01:09:18
They even took the kitchen sink. Absolute bedlam.

What have I missed?  ???

That's the thing - you go one day without reading the news and come back to some completely new chapter of our global clownshow.

Quote from: milkanannan on Tue 02/06/2020 12:13:58
...you go one day...

What's a "day"? I forgot what that word means.

Quote from: milkanannan on Tue 02/06/2020 12:13:58

Quote from: Blondbraid on Mon 01/06/2020 22:50:59

Quote from: Slasher on Sun 31/05/2020 18:20:56
Things are going crazy near where I live in the UK... Thieves are out on the pinch even more... even stealing someone's hot tub and 3 piece suite... and someone even took an outdoor fish pond  (roll)

It was reported that drones were flying over the borough...

Quote from: Stupot on Mon 01/06/2020 01:09:18
They even took the kitchen sink. Absolute bedlam.

What have I missed?  ???

That's the thing - you go one day without reading the news and come back to some completely new chapter of our global clownshow.

Exactly!!!

Read this today....  UK: Nookie with someone from a different household is illegal from today under new Lockdown rules...

Is this really true?  It appears so....

To slightly misquote the poet, Robert Browning - 'Oh to be in England now
coronavirus is here.'

A large percentage of the population have turned into complete morons.

Thieves, as Slasher pointed out, are stealing anything they can get their
hands on while fly tippers, are out in force, ruining the countryside.

Day trippers, who normally would be invading every other country at this
time of year (you have my sympathy) are now swarming over our resorts,
leaving unmentionable packages in their wake, because very few public
toilets are open, and are now fighting on the beaches. ( Sounds like the
second world war, though certainly not as honorable) I just despair.  :angry:  :sad:

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 02/06/2020 12:45:05

Quote from: milkanannan on Tue 02/06/2020 12:13:58
...you go one day...

What's a "day"? I forgot what that word means.

Lol so true. I sort of feel like the last two months have been one long, unending 'day'.

From the 17th June in the UK everyone will need to wear a mask before they can get on public transport..   I'm still waiting for more ease on the lock down..

Are you aware that the UK currently has more daily cases/deaths than the 27 EU members combined?
You should be glad that the clowns and wingnuts that run your country are buckling under the pressure of reality and slowly coming to their senses.

Quote from: Slasher on Mon 08/06/2020 15:06:56
From the 17th June in the UK everyone will need to wear a mask before they can get on public transport..

I wish my government would put something similar in place here, but they seem determined never to go beyond "recommending" people wear them.

We entered what they're calling "Phase Two" of beginning to lift our lockdown today, and all retail outlets with street-level storefronts re-opened for business (shopping centers will re-open next week). While social-distancing rules will stay in effect (limiting customer numbers, browsing, etc), and shops will be outfitted with hand-sanitizer stations and whatnot, masks are not universally required (though a lot of shops are outfitting staff with face guards and such).

I was pretty disappointed with the low number of mask-wearing members of the public I could see, especially among the 18-30ish age group. :-\

Personally, I'll be wearing one for the foreseeable future.

It’s funny that people wait until they’re told they haveto do something that they already know might be good for them.

Do the masks really help on regular basis? I'm still in big doubts in regards to their efficiency. Supposedly you get into contact with the virus, it may end up anywhere on your face including parts not covered with mask, and your hair. Don't think people disinfect these places when coming home. I am not even talking about the rest of the body, clothes etc.
Also, what happens when a person lowers the mask down to their chin (and I've seen many do when they are in the open area)? Again, supposedly the virus ended up on the mask's tissue surface, would not a blow of a wind or a simply an inhale potentially get it on your exposed nose/mouth?

I also have a breathing problem with the mask, idk how others do, but I have a chronic nose condition (rinithis it's called?), and when wearing mask especially in a building I soon start to feel not well.

Actually, my skepticism towards this self-quaranteen mostly comes from how loosely and undecisively it's implemented in my country. Basically, country goverment just said "each region decides for itself". So I heard there are some ultra-strict laws in Moscow which frankly shocked me when I heard about them (things like you need some registration paper or card to move in certain areas, and these are actually checked by police or subway security). Where I live city administration issued a regulation around early May, saying that people must wear masks and gloves when going to a store, transport, or another crowded place. Many people, including me (not going to lie), just wear masks before entering the store, and put them of on the street. And frankly, I've never seen a single person in gloves yet. But I work from home and don't use public transport, so idk how things are there.
From my personal observation, where I live like 1/3 of people are wearing masks on streets, but this varies, sometimes you see a lot, and sometimes none.

Masks are less to protect the person wearing them from the virus other people could give them, but the other way around. They are to keep the virus in the person who already has it. When you breath or talk, spit and air leaves your body and with it the virus. The masks stop this. By wearing a mask, you mainly protect others and to a small amount yourself.

Which should make all of us pretty angry when we see people not wearing masks properly (as in, only over their mouth but not their nose, pulling it down to speak or something, ...)

Unless we're talking about special protective masks, the basic ones you're supposed to wear in public don't protect you but other people from you.
They work exactly like the ones surgeons wear: they protect the outside (in this case the insides) from droplets emitted by the person wearing the mask.

Got ninja'd by Sinitrena, so I'll use this post for the pee meme:

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/11/66/67/19361245/3/rawImage.png)

Quote from: Sinitrena on Tue 09/06/2020 00:14:52
Masks are less to protect the person wearing them from the virus other people could give them, but the other way around. They are to keep the virus in the person who already has it. When you breath or talk, spit and air leaves your body and with it the virus. The masks stop this. By wearing a mask, you mainly protect others and to a small amount yourself.

Yes, this is the only good explanation I see.

My general impression still is that because all this was implemented so loosely, this virus is likely near everywhere already...

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Tue 09/06/2020 00:02:50
Do the masks really help on regular basis? I'm still in big doubts in regards to their efficiency. Supposedly you get into contact with the virus, it may end up anywhere on your face including parts not covered with mask, and your hair. Don't think people disinfect these places when coming home. I am not even talking about the rest of the body, clothes etc.
Also, what happens when a person lowers the mask down to their chin (and I've seen many do when they are in the open area)? Again, supposedly the virus ended up on the mask's tissue surface, would not a blow of a wind or a simply an inhale potentially get it on your exposed nose/mouth?

In addition to what Sinitrena and Khris say, it's also about probabilities. A mask is not 100%. Nobody said it was. But if it can cut your risk of being infected even just by say 20%, that still seems worth it to me.

The virus can really only infect you if it gets inside your respiratory system â€" so: via your nose and mouth. (Some say the eyes as well, but that sounds very much like a "we haven't 100% ruled it out" proposition to me.) If the mask stops you from inhaling some virus droplets, that means those droplets haven't (yet) had a chance of infecting you.

If the droplet are still stuck in the mask (conceivably they might be blown away again when you exhale), or on your body or clothes, then sure, there's a chance you may transfer them into your nose or mouth later on. But only a chance. The virus can't reproduce outside our body, and each droplet only contains a few viruses (this article (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flu-cough/whats-in-a-cough-20000-viruses-idUSTRE54B16F20090512) suggests that there might be about 7 viruses per droplet, if similar to flu or cold), so it's not like it will spread everywhere. And it doesn't last forever. (The numbers given for how long it can "survive" on surfaces or in the air doesn't mean it always does last that long. Again, probabilities.)

When this was all kicking off, I was one of the people saying “masks don’t do nuffink” almost sneeringly at the people around me. But you only have to look at the numbers. I was certain that Japan was going to follow behind the UK in terms of numbers but it just didn’t happen. Even if you take into account some inevitable manipulation of the data, the numbers have still been really low. So it’s hard to believe that the mask-wearing culture hasn’t had some influence. I now wear a mask on the train and at work, but I still allow myself a little sneer at people who still wear masks when they are alone, miles from anyone.

It must be said that the Japanese tend to have a lot of weird beliefs when it comes to health. My company is making us wear this “Virus Away” blocker which has been banned in multiple countries and is clearly a scam, but they refuse to check anything, especially if it’s “MADE IN JAPAN”
(https://shop.r10s.jp/s-plaza/cabinet/w1/w-4/imgrc0075034421.jpg)

Stu, the "Virus Away" actually works.
It visually alerts the people around the wearer that he or she is a gullible dumbass which discourages people from wanting to approach and speak with the wearer, thus cutting down the rate of spread of the virus.

Haha. Well I’m flat out refusing to wear a bleach necklace. My company has bought these magic poison necklaces and told our students via the website (before telling us) that they’d be making us teachers wear them. Oh and despite presumably spending money on these they still expect us to provide our own masks.

Oh, the shane of it all. THE SHANE!!!

Public transport is one of the few occasions where masks could be useful. If I understand correctly, our government is finally making the mask wearing rules less strict next week or so. You then only have to wear a mask in public transport, at the doctor's or in pharmacies, but not in regular supermarkets or shops.
I have to get some stuff from a local shopping center, but I'm waiting until mask rules are lifted there. Not being able to take off the mask when leaving a store makes me really uncomfortable.

And I also sneer at people who wear masks outside when walking their dogs or driving in their car alone.

I wear one anytime I’m outside my home, even when I go jogging. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. There are times you inadvertently are around other humans (passing by other joggers, people passing as they get in/out an elevator, etc). If everyone’s in a mask, we’re keeping our droplets to ourselves. I scowl at those that still (STILL?!) refuse to admit masks make a significant difference.

The reason I wear masks alone in my car is because once I put it on my face I don't touch my face unless I have returned home and properly cleaned my hands and then I remove the mask. So yeah, if I am going to get groceries, since I need to put a mask to get to my car - all the way from apartment to the garage where the car is located where I meet multiple people - I will keep it on until I am back.

I have never been able to touch much of my face since it would result in my acne getting worse, so I am used to not touching it since I was a kid. The reason I am mentioning is because I noticed for some people not touching your face is apparently something hard for some reason.

Most people I interacted are ok with everyone using a mask.

Quote from: eri0o on Tue 09/06/2020 14:48:29
The reason I wear masks alone in my car is because once I put it on my face I don't touch my face unless I have returned home and properly cleaned my hands and then I remove the mask.

Yeah absolutely. I think people don't realise just how much you end up touching your face in a given day without really thinking about it.

Being in a country (Denmark) were masks aren't mandatory and aren't even recommended (as long as you hold the distance, cough into your arm and sanitize your hands regularly), I'm not wearing one, not even when shopping. The numbers seems to indicate that masks aren't really essential (or the entire country just been  lucky). I would likely wear them if I was in a place with a lot of people and distancing was a problem.

I do get the "idea" behind the masks though.

Yesterday there was one of those BLM demonstrations in Copenhagen with thousands of people gathered... only about 5-10% wore face masks...  8-0 I now expect the numbers of infected, death and in hospital (that have been dropping since we started opening up the society about 1,5 month ago) to get up again in about 1 to 2 weeks...  :-\

A study on the efficiency of masks, comparing Jena (a city where mask wearing was made compulsary earlier than in other cities in Germany) from the university in Mainz:

https://download.uni-mainz.de/RePEc/pdf/Discussion_Paper_2016.pdf

Edit: Who wants to read a thirty pages research paper? Sorry. Quote from the conclusion:

QuoteWe set out by analyzing the city of Jena. The introduction of face masks on 6 April reduced the number of new infections over the next 20 days by almost 25% relative to the synthetic control group. This corresponds to a reduction in the average daily growth rate of the total number of reported infections by 1.32 percentage points. Comparing the daily growth rate in the synthetic control group with the observed daily growth rate in Jena, the latter shrinks by around 60% due to  the  introduction  of  face  masks.  This  is  a  sizeable  effect.  Wearing  face  masks  apparently  helped considerably in reducing the spread of Covid-19.

Yeah, I have no lingering doubt that wearing masks (when in close proximity to other people) has a positive effect on the prevention of the spread of the disease.

I do maintain that you’re very unlikely to catch or transmit the disease by running past a lone jogger, especially if you’re both probably going to try to allow a bit of distance between you anyway. So I will continue to take my mask off when walking around my quiet neighbourhood, if you don’t mind.

The point about masks helping to prevent face-touching is a good one though, I’ll concede that. Especially if you’re in a situation where you’re touching stuff and can’t easily sanitize your hands. But when I’m walking in my neighbourhood I’m not touching anything else and coronavirus doesn’t just magically appear on your hand when you step outside.

Excluding those who can't wear them, for physical or medical reasons, the "masks don't really work" excuse is usually the fallback argument for people who just don't want to wear them. Regardless of how effective they are, they are somewhat effective in stopping people from spreading the disease. We can argue percentages, but, even if the end percentage is only a single digit, doesn't it still make sense to wear them? Despite our governments fence-sitting over masks, some private companies here (such as airlines (https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-says-passengers-must-wear-face-masks-1.4258222) and a number of retail outlets) are insisting customers wear them. Because, along with social-distancing and proper sanitizing, they're another weapon we can utilize against Covid-19.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 09/06/2020 22:52:52
Excluding those who can't wear them, for physical or medical reasons, the "masks don't really work" excuse is usually the fallback argument for people who just don't want to wear them.

Yeah, it's classic cognitive dissonance.

Brain: I am not a bad person.

Brain: I don't want to wear a mask because it's uncomfortable and inconvenient.

Conflict: But these measures are meant to protect the vulnerable and help prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths, so not doing it makes me a bad person.

Solution: mAsKs dOn'T dO aNyTHinG AnYwaY

Whether masks work or not we still have to abide by the rules even if we think they're a waste of time. People who are scared would want you to wear one.

As many may know, I don't completely buy into the whole fiasco but again we must observe others wishes who wish to wear a mask...

I don't doubt that masks can help to avoid spreading the virus, I just doubt if it is necessary. In my district with 100.000+ inhabitants there have been 2 new cases confirmed within the last 7 days. Just compare that to how many people get the flu every year (or multi-resistant bacteria, for example). We could also all drive our cars at 20km/h to avoid traffic accidents. The question is not what can be done but what is reasonable.

How do you know that it's not precisely the masks that made the number of new cases drop?
This is like going on a diet, losing 20 pounds, then immediately going back to your old eating habits because you're thin now.

The cases in Brazil are growing exponentially, guess what Bolzonaro thinks about implementing mask rules?

The problem with masks though, is that while they can prevent infected from spreading the disease by coughing, there have been lots of problems with people having to adjust their masks,
making them touch their faces more than they would otherwise, which in turn increases the risk of the virus getting on their hands and contaminating even more surfaces. It's a double edged sword.

This discussion about masks in here in starting to turn into a Facebook-type discussion where people just post all kind of opinions, nobody has all the facts or data, and it turns into a complete mess of people getting butt-hurt over being contradicted.

Maybe the thread should just go back to the original informative topic of how people are dealing with the current situation, and what is happening in their part of the world,  instead of a useless back-and-forth about what people "should" be doing?

Mandle: I agree to some point but it is good to know how people are dealing with this issue..

Regarding facts and data: There is plenty, but censorship stops them becoming m/stream... Even ags has implemented new algorithms..

At the moment I am doing day to day stuff ok.. My mind is clearer and i'v caught up with some reading... So all good  (nod)

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 10/06/2020 14:27:43
Mandle: I agree to some point but it is good to know how people are dealing with this issue..

Yeah, I agree, but the whole "I have this opinion to say or this data to present that shows your opinion and/or data is/could be wrong." downspiral is the way Facebook conversations more than often end up, and we here at AGS are better than that.

My statements are based on a recent study from Germany. I don't have a personal opinion about the efficiency of masks that goes beyond the current scientific consensus, that would be ridiculous.

Slasher, I love facts and data, can you link me to those censored sources?
And what are these new AGS algorithms? That's the first time I'm hearing of this.

Quote from: Khris on Wed 10/06/2020 16:40:02
My statements are based on a recent study from Germany. I don't have a personal opinion about the efficiency of masks that goes beyond the current scientific consensus, that would be ridiculous.

Slasher, I love facts and data, can you link me to those censored sources?
And what are these new AGS algorithms? That's the first time I'm hearing of this.

Khris, I'd e love to show you some data/info but very little point as you would not accept them due to your belief.

i mentioned about cri-ses in Chi-na which was factual and got warned that i could get banned from a non-reply PM..

Meanwhile, keep well and free..

Quote from: Slasher on Wed 10/06/2020 17:00:00

Quote from: Khris on Wed 10/06/2020 16:40:02
And what are these new AGS algorithms? That's the first time I'm hearing of this.

i mentioned about cri-ses in Chi-na which was factual and got warned that i could get banned from a non-reply PM..

Slasher, there's no automatic algorithms on AGS site from what I know, that PM was likely sent to you by one of actual human moderators (Snarky, LimpingFish or someone else) who read this thread. I know because I have some mod rights and read their discussion on this.

Well, it was misleading in its origins.. but still censorship.. Anyhow, I was warned by X... enough said...

Quote from: Khris on Wed 10/06/2020 16:40:02
My statements are based on a recent study from Germany. I don't have a personal opinion about the efficiency of masks that goes beyond the current scientific consensus, that would be ridiculous.

Khris, my comments were not aimed specifically at anyone. My point was just that the thread was originally intended to just kind of check in on members of the AGS community that could post here and talk about how they were doing and what was happening in their part of the world. Then it turned into a back-and-forth about personal opinions about masks that is most likely going to go in circles, quite likely circles spiraling downwards. I see this all the time on Facebook (for example).

My point was that I didn't want to see a topic that was started with a caring sentiment turn into that kind of bickering. Maybe my worries were unfounded but I just wanted to speak up and remind people that we are AGS, one of the few friendly places left on this shitty internet.

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 10/06/2020 22:54:41

Quote from: Khris on Wed 10/06/2020 16:40:02
My statements are based on a recent study from Germany. I don't have a personal opinion about the efficiency of masks that goes beyond the current scientific consensus, that would be ridiculous.

Khris, my comments were not aimed specifically at anyone. My point was just that the thread was originally intended to just kind of check in on members of the AGS community that could post here and talk about how they were doing and what was happening in their part of the world. Then it turned into a back-and-forth about personal opinions about masks that is most likely going to go in circles, quite likely circles spiraling downwards. I see this all the time on Facebook (for example).

My point was that I didn't want to see a topic that was started with a caring sentiment turn into that kind of bickering. Maybe my worries were unfounded but I just wanted to speak up and remind people that we are AGS, one of the few friendly places left on this shitty internet.

That is so true, and I'm quite frustrated at seeing several people I used to respect at various sites devolve into near panicked rants dead set in painting Corona as literally as bad as the black plague, ignoring the facts and risk assessments by real scientists.

Here in Sweden, the latest number on how many have died from the virus is about 4 800 dead, out of a 10 million population. Here is my source: https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/3Jgxj9/senaste-nytt-om-coronaviruset

Quote from: Khris on Wed 10/06/2020 16:40:02
And what are these new AGS algorithms? That's the first time I'm hearing of this.

Yeah, that's not a thing.  :)

All our moderators are of the flesh-'n-blood variety, and we make decisions the old fashioned way:

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Magic_8_Ball_-_Instrument_Of_Evil%3F_%282426454804%29.jpg)

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 10/06/2020 22:54:41
Maybe my worries were unfounded but I just wanted to speak up and remind people that we are AGS, one of the few friendly places left on this shitty internet.

I understand your concern, but the Covid situation is changing from day to day, and I think it's healthy for people to highlight how they are coping with new developments as restrictions start to be eased. Right now, here in Ireland, the news is dominated by mask talk, so it's at the forefront of my own thoughts as I venture outside again. It's largely unavoidable that discussing this is going to involve opinions and personal feelings, or comparing one countries plans to another. While it would be nice if we could ensure things are kept friendly, sometimes the conversation might get a little heated.

But I agree, a few more supportive posts might keep us all a little saner.

I was hoping for some more comments about being expected to wear the poison bleach necklace. (Although I don’t wear it. My compromise is I’ll hang it in my room but I’m not putting it around my neck).

Quote from: Stupot on Tue 09/06/2020 02:40:26My company is making us wear this “Virus Away” blocker which has been banned in multiple countries and is clearly a scam, but they refuse to check anything, especially if it’s “MADE IN JAPAN”
(https://shop.r10s.jp/s-plaza/cabinet/w1/w-4/imgrc0075034421.jpg)

I think I lurked around this thread to see if forum members that had vanished would eventually respond, saying that they are alright (or not, but alive!), just were not making games... Or coding or writing or drawing or composing something to share in the forums for whatever reason...

I don't see AGS forums as an echo chamber of personal opinions on complex problems that can affect each local communities differently. I know we can't even agree on Verbcoins!

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 10/06/2020 22:54:41
My point was that I didn't want to see a topic that was started with a caring sentiment turn into that kind of bickering. Maybe my worries were unfounded but I just wanted to speak up and remind people that we are AGS, one of the few friendly places left on this shitty internet.

This right here. Also this is your fault for not doing a good job as the Hog keeper. It's kinda suspect that just after you stopped feeding it we all got caught into this. (https://youtu.be/cbCtgEMEcKo)

Also here's pay what you want bundle for 1k+ games including also gamedev resources -> https://itch.io/b/520/bundle-for-racial-justice-and-equality

Quote from: eri0o on Thu 11/06/2020 02:10:09
Also this is your fault for not doing a good job as the Hog keeper. It's kinda suspect that just after you stopped feeding it we all got caught into this

OMG You literally saw me feed her! There's been another couple of dozen marks on my tally wall since then!

She is so big now her sides are pressing up against the walls of the bunker. I can only get to 3-4 teats for my own feeding! Her stomach is bulging so much... I wonder if she's pregnant somehow... I didn't think that was possible so I didn't wear protection. Oh dear... I smell a sequel brewing!!!

Quote from: Mandle on Thu 11/06/2020 03:21:21

Quote from: eri0o on Thu 11/06/2020 02:10:09
Also this is your fault for not doing a good job as the Hog keeper. It's kinda suspect that just after you stopped feeding it we all got caught into this

OMG You literally saw me feed her! There's been another couple of dozen marks on my tally wall since then!

She is so big now her sides are pressing up against the walls of the bunker. I can only get to 3-4 teats for my own feeding! Her stomach is bulging so much... I wonder if she's pregnant somehow... I didn't think that was possible so I didn't wear protection. Oh dear... I smell a sequel brewing!!!

What the heck did I just walk in on!  8-0

Quote from: Danvzare on Thu 11/06/2020 12:04:17
What the heck did I just walk in on!  8-0

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbCtgEMEcKo

Part 2 coming soon!

Quote from: Mandle on Wed 10/06/2020 14:19:44
This discussion about masks in here in starting to turn into a Facebook-type discussion where people just post all kind of opinions, nobody has all the facts or data

I have an objective fact: masks look badass as heck.

(https://img.itch.zone/aW1hZ2UvNjY5OTg4LzM2NDM3MjguanBlZw==/347x500/PaomCa.jpeg)

It would be super cool if everybody who feels like it posted pics of themselves in their covid regalia here, so we can immortalize and look back on this unique historical moment when it's all over ;-D

Did you make that mask yourself, Laura? That is pretty badass, but I think it’s partly to do with the wearer.

Case in point: here is me wearing a mask on the train looking decidedly un-badass.

(https://i.imgur.com/6ojRQLQ_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

Fun fact: I had only worn a face mask once before the coronavirus outbreak. I wore it as a joke about 5 or 6 years ago and used a picture of my steamed up glasses as my Twitter avatar for a while. These days my Twitter avatar is a version of the same picture made for by our very own AnasAbdin. You should all follow Anas on Twitter and get Abdinified.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/537910086773919744/tRmttG8V_400x400.jpeg)

Quote from: Stupot on Fri 12/06/2020 13:44:20
Did you make that mask yourself, Laura? That is pretty badass, but I think it’s partly to do with the wearer.

Haha thanks but no, my manual skills couldn't be worse if I had ten thumbs. I got it from an Asian flower shop in my hood, but they have them everywhere now. I was fed up of throwing money away on the disposable models, and as soon as these washable ones started showing up, I was like ok, if this is going to be the New Normal ^tm, then let's class the apocalypse up a bit at least.

QuoteFun fact: I had only worn a face mask once before the coronavirus outbreak. I wore it as a joke about 5 or 6 years ago and used a picture of my steamed up glasses as my Twitter avatar for a while.

Ah yes, another excuse for me to never wear my glasses :D

Laura, I wanted to write "A Room Without You In It" but then I realised it's not the "name the game" thread ;)

Me and my wife (who actually looks cool in her mask but told me to remove her from the pic). I guess it is me and my arm stump then. (laugh)

(https://i.imgur.com/2S6SZOm.jpg)

Soaping up literally everything that comes in the house. :-\

(https://i.imgur.com/eKLQIjc.jpg)

Quote from: Stupot on Thu 11/06/2020 02:08:52
I was hoping for some more comments about being expected to wear the poison bleach necklace.

I think we're starting to get immune to idiocy and weirdness... but after hearing Trump suggest bleach injections and reading on the newspaper, the other day, that the US washes their chickens with bleach I'm no longer surprised at much.  :-X

Quote from: Pogwizd on Fri 12/06/2020 16:29:47
Laura, I wanted to write "A Room Without You In It" but then I realised it's not the "name the game" thread ;)

Hahahaha "hey, I think I've played this ga... oh wait" (laugh)

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 16:41:46Me and my wife (who actually looks cool in her mask but told me to remove her from the pic). I guess it is me and my arm stump then. (laugh)

Don't even ask me how my brain works, but you kind of look like Ryan Gosling with that on. We should make a "Hey girl" meme with that pic. Nice neighborhood btw!

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 16:48:39Soaping up literally everything that comes in the house. :-\

Ah yes, priorities, I see.

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Fri 12/06/2020 17:45:13

Quote from: Stupot on Thu 11/06/2020 02:08:52
I was hoping for some more comments about being expected to wear the poison bleach necklace.

I think we're starting to get immune to idiocy and weirdness... but after hearing Trump suggest bleach injections and reading on the newspaper, the other day, that the US washes their chickens with bleach I'm no longer surprised at much.  :-X

I met a guy today in an expats group I'm in that's an actual flat earther. They apparently really do exist.  :-\

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Fri 12/06/2020 18:03:11

...you kind of look like Ryan Gosling with that on.

The whole covering my entire face makes me look like Ryan Gosling? Gee thanks! (laugh)

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 18:49:49

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Fri 12/06/2020 18:03:11

...you kind of look like Ryan Gosling with that on.

The whole covering my entire face makes me look like Ryan Gosling? Gee thanks! (laugh)

lol, I... I didn't mean to... look, I said don't ask, didn't I :-D

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 16:48:39
Soaping up literally everything that comes in the house. :-\

(https://i.imgur.com/eKLQIjc.jpg)

I think if you drink all that it will kill the virus for sure!  ;)

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 18:49:49
The whole covering my entire face makes me look like Ryan Gosling? Gee thanks! (laugh)

It's the eyes. There's a touch of the Gos' around the eyes.

...

Or maybe it's just a case of pareidolia...like when you see Jesus in a piece of toast.  :-\

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 16:48:39
Soaping up literally everything that comes in the house. :-\

Weirdly, even as a chronic OCD sufferer since my teens, I can't bring myself to clean my groceries.

But I'm definitely on board with drinking the virus to death.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Sat 13/06/2020 00:16:01
But I'm definitely on board with drinking the virus to death.

I'm not sure if they were referring to drinking the virus to death.  :P

Quote from: Mandle on Sat 13/06/2020 00:18:16
I'm not sure if they were referring to drinking the virus to death.  :P

All that matters is that drinking is involved and I get to kill something. >:(

Quote from: Retro Wolf on Fri 12/06/2020 20:33:24
I think if you drink all that it will kill the virus for sure!  ;)

Lol can I just point out that where we live (UAE) you sort of have to buy booze in bulk. It's not hard to get, but it is a hassle because it has to be covered up and brought home discreetly (and then given a bath). I swear we're not a bunch of booze hounds over here! :-D

Quote from: LimpingFish on Sat 13/06/2020 00:16:01
Weirdly, even as a chronic OCD sufferer since my teens, I can't bring myself to clean my groceries.

I found it weird too until you started to see those published pieces explaining that the outside of each coronavirus cell is made up of lipids, hence why soap and hand sanitizer are capable of breaking the cells up and/or detaching them from surfaces. It's probably overkill, but as I posted to a different thread we're pretty sure the virus is circulating our building at the moment.  :(

In the UK, Well, in my local hospital at least, no one (visitors) are allowed near the wards whatsoever (even with protection).. My father, aged 92 recently had a bad fall and taken to Medway hospital where we were told we would not be able to see him.. so he has been unable to see his 'boys' and knowing my dad he will be in bits... This is what this has all come to...

Sorry to hear about that Slasher, I've had a similar issue with my grandmother recently, due to dementia she had trouble understanding why people couldn't come inside to see her.

One good thing about this lockdown is that I've been seeing more nature, walks and bicycle rides, I've been discovering new nature trails near to me that I didn't know existed and I've lived here my whole life. It costs nothing and is a bit of an adventure.

Though the last bike ride I was on I came across a drunk fellow on his bike shouting "YOUR MONEY OR YOUR LIFE!", I had no choice but to stop and talk to him since It was along a canal and he was all over the place. He asked if I had a light which for some reason is always the question whenever I'm stopped by a drunk person. I don't smoke which disappointed the man, he then offered me a beer though not the unopened one in his shopping bag, the one he had been drinking while cycling one handed.
He seemed to be unaware of social distancing, and sprayed on my face when he slurred his speech, hopefully he's not infected!! Luckily a couple of people distracted him so I did a 180 and got out of there fast!

Quote from: Retro Wolf on Sat 13/06/2020 20:17:51
One good thing about this lockdown is that I've been seeing more nature, walks and bicycle rides, I've been discovering new nature trails near to me that I didn't know existed and I've lived here my whole life. It costs nothing and is a bit of an adventure.

Same for me!  ;-D I discovered quite a few new places in the vicinity.

Quote from: Retro Wolf on Sat 13/06/2020 20:17:51
hopefully he's not infected!!

Not as far as I know. Sorry for the spray!

(Also found some nice country trails around my place for cycling.)

Quote from: Retro Wolf on Sat 13/06/2020 20:17:51
Though the last bike ride I was on I came across a drunk fellow on his bike shouting "YOUR MONEY OR YOUR LIFE!", I had no choice but to stop and talk to him since It was along a canal and he was all over the place. He asked if I had a light which for some reason is always the question whenever I'm stopped by a drunk person. I don't smoke which disappointed the man, he then offered me a beer though not the unopened one in his shopping bag, the one he had been drinking while cycling one handed.
He seemed to be unaware of social distancing, and sprayed on my face when he slurred his speech, hopefully he's not infected!! Luckily a couple of people distracted him so I did a 180 and got out of there fast!

Ugh, jesus, hope it's nothing. A few days ago as I was crossing the street, a 50-ish-year old guy crossing from the opposite sidewalk leaned towards me and grunted "masks off!" as he walked past. He wasn't drunk or anything, just your average braindead Berliner. Luckily he didn't engage further, but the abruptness and aggressiveness of the whole thing left me shaken for a while...

For the first time in three months I went out with my wife and we ate out at a local (little bit trendy) eatery.
I had their excellent curry-rice and I ate up every last bit of it.
It was so delicious and was made by a professional cook just for me and I almost cried while eating it and looking around at decorations in the place I would have never noticed before.

I will sleep well tonight.

That must have been so nice Mandle for you and your wife...  Curry and all... my favourite...

Everyone should cherish the moments of beautiful time they have... Hope you have many more to come..

As places start unlocking I encourage everyone to take advantage of the fact with open arms. We have a wonderful, beautiful world, despite all that is going on..

Quote from: Stupot on Thu 11/06/2020 02:08:52
I was hoping for some more comments about being expected to wear the poison bleach necklace.

I think the ridiculousness of it stands for itself, no need to add more comments  :-D

Quote from: milkanannan on Fri 12/06/2020 16:48:39
Soaping up literally everything that comes in the house. :-\

(https://i.imgur.com/eKLQIjc.jpg)

This reminds me of my student days' parties - of course we did not put the booze in the bathtub to clean it, but to keep it cool when there was no space in the fridge left. Ah, good times  ;)


@Slasher Sorry to hear about your dad. I hope he will get well soon!

My brother has signed, on behalf of my father a 'Do not resuscitate' form...  We just hope he pulls through.. 

Lockdowns in the UK are coming off slowly though masks must be worn on public transport..

That's a hard form to sign, man.

Yesterday was the first day where no masks are required in shops (except for pharmacies). I went to a shopping center because I had to make a complaint and it was packed (considering it was Monday noon!). Out of all the customers maybe 10 or so were still wearing a mask. Also most shop assistants were not wearing masks anymore.

Quote from: cat on Tue 16/06/2020 08:40:27
Yesterday was the first day where no masks are required in shops (except for pharmacies). I went to a shopping center because I had to make a complaint and it was packed (considering it was Monday noon!). Out of all the customers maybe 10 or so were still wearing a mask. Also most shop assistants were not wearing masks anymore.

Must be nice that things are thawing there for you guys. Do you feel confident the timing is right where you are for people to loosen their precautions in public spaces?

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Sun 14/06/2020 10:42:16

Quote from: Retro Wolf on Sat 13/06/2020 20:17:51
Though the last bike ride I was on I came across a drunk fellow on his bike shouting "YOUR MONEY OR YOUR LIFE!", I had no choice but to stop and talk to him since It was along a canal and he was all over the place. He asked if I had a light which for some reason is always the question whenever I'm stopped by a drunk person. I don't smoke which disappointed the man, he then offered me a beer though not the unopened one in his shopping bag, the one he had been drinking while cycling one handed.
He seemed to be unaware of social distancing, and sprayed on my face when he slurred his speech, hopefully he's not infected!! Luckily a couple of people distracted him so I did a 180 and got out of there fast!

Ugh, jesus, hope it's nothing. A few days ago as I was crossing the street, a 50-ish-year old guy crossing from the opposite sidewalk leaned towards me and grunted "masks off!" as he walked past. He wasn't drunk or anything, just your average braindead Berliner. Luckily he didn't engage further, but the abruptness and aggressiveness of the whole thing left me shaken for a while...

Seriously, what prompts people to act like such prickholes? For all he knows, you could be a recent Covid recovery story. Very sorry to hear you went through this.

Quote from: milkanannan on Tue 16/06/2020 09:42:03
Seriously, what prompts people to act like such prickholes? For all he knows, you could be a recent Covid recovery story. Very sorry to hear you went through this.

Thanks. Unfortunately things like these are extremely common in this city, as Berliners are a bunch of dumb, aggressive morons. One morning I was on my way to the subway (when I still had a job lol), when another middle-aged dude walked past me from behind and bumped my shoulder because apparently I wasn't walking fast enough for him. I let out a surprised "dafuq?" and he STOPPED, turned around, puffed his chest, and literally started grunting at me "ungh? ungh? ungh?". When he was satisfied that he had successfully intimidated this small woman whom he had ran into in the first place, he turned around again and kept barreling on ahead, still bumping into anybody who wouldn't move aside. And I could go on!

Sounds like you had an encounter with the legendary "GROSSER FUSS".

Quote from: Mandle on Tue 16/06/2020 15:33:31
Sounds like you had an encounter with the legendary "GROSSER FUSS".

Haha nah it was probably his cousin, the slightly less legendary ARSCH LOCH.

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Tue 16/06/2020 12:26:31
Thanks. Unfortunately things like these are extremely common in this city, as Berliners are a bunch of dumb, aggressive morons.

Christ, I'm glad I don't have to put up with that. I gotta say I rarely experience anyone being malicious around here. Most people seem to have completely abandoned any efforts to slow the spread of coronavirus, but nobody seems to mind if you wear a mask or try to maintain physical distance.

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Tue 16/06/2020 12:26:31(when I still had a job lol)

:(

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 16/06/2020 17:37:51

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Tue 16/06/2020 12:26:31(when I still had a job lol)

:(

Yeah... I worked in the travel industry. It's been a bloodbath.

It'll pick up again, question is when.

Can't seem to get this video to embed (it's Vimeo), but it is a very interesting look at the macroeconomic and cultural changes we can expect to face post-Covid. It's about 30 min: https://vimeo.com/427912671

QuoteYeah... I worked in the travel industry. It's been a bloodbath.

For the travel industry or for people who dared to fire you?

Thanks to the COVID, I now have my very own cosplay of the Sanitarium guy:

(http://creamy.r.c.f.unblog.fr/files/2020/06/img_20200616_202752.jpg)

Quote from: Creamy on Tue 16/06/2020 19:37:41

QuoteYeah... I worked in the travel industry. It's been a bloodbath.

For the travel industry or for people who dared to fire you?

Shhh. We don't talk about that here.

Quote from: Creamy on Tue 16/06/2020 19:37:41
Thanks to the COVID, I now have my very own cosplay of the Sanitarium guy:

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FavoriteNecessaryFoxterrier-small.gif)

(Off-topic: Sanitarium is one of the few games I remember with real nostalgia. What a ride that was.)

Quote from: cat on Tue 16/06/2020 08:40:27
Yesterday was the first day where no masks are required in shops (except for pharmacies). I went to a shopping center because I had to make a complaint and it was packed (considering it was Monday noon!). Out of all the customers maybe 10 or so were still wearing a mask. Also most shop assistants were not wearing masks anymore.

One of our biggest department stores opened yesterday, and the queues were insane. The police actually had to ask the shop to open earlier than planned because of the amount of people that showed up. Some had been waiting, with small children in tow, since 4am! It wasn't like some fantastic sale was on, either. No masks, minimal social-distancing, though at least the store was outfitted with hand-sanitizer and such. But...

A friend who manages a store for a fashion brand, one that has supplied staff with face shields and perspex dividers at checkouts, and has a compulsory hand-sanitizer rule for all customers, told me about two particular customers who, when stopped at the door, asked if the hand-sanitizer was indeed compulsory. Upon being informed that yes it was, they looked at each other, smiled and said "Thanks, but we won't bother then." And they turned around and left.

I just don't understand.

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 16/06/2020 17:37:51
I gotta say I rarely experience anyone being malicious around here.

Yeah, same here. At the start of the pandemic, we had idiots thinking it was funny to cough on people, and we had the odd headcase losing it on a public street, but, all in all, people are allowed to deal with the situation in peace.

I'm still not entirely comfortable being out in public. The safeguards that retail outlets, public transport, and people in general are observing vary so drastically. It can be confusing and somewhat disorientating. :-\

...

In other news, I'm thinking about trying to find an outlet that will print a picture of the lower-half of my face onto a surgical mask...

Quote from: milkanannan on Tue 16/06/2020 09:38:07
Must be nice that things are thawing there for you guys. Do you feel confident the timing is right where you are for people to loosen their precautions in public spaces?

Yes, I do think so. Numbers are really low at the moment. In autumn they might rise again when people are more inside which means measures could become more strict again. So I think it's a good idea to loosen them now to relax the situation.

@Creamy *lol*

According to a recent graph (from Google) it appears in the UK that the graph has dropped quite a lot from the high peaks back in April/May.. This is great news...

We all know that Autumn/Winter brings coughs and sneezes which hits a lot of people.. We all want/need to relax from the crises while we can. Hopefully it's not the calm before the storm.... keep our immune systems good and finger's crossed...

I am also one of those that nothing change that much since I work from home.

In the UK Boris Johnson has started even more easing off the Lock down so more businesses can reopen, like pubs.. Some say it's too soon..

Well, I think Texas might be the state with the highest number of new cases now. And yesterday there was some kind of change in plans of opening stuff. I didn't pay much attention since I rarely go out anyway, but I do know that the city one of my cousins lives in is openly ignoring these changes. And yesterday was the first time I actually did go anywhere in 2 or 3 weeks, and literally the first thing I heard when I got inside was a woman aggressively saying she hated people wearing masks. So... yeah.

Quote from: VampireWombat on Sat 27/06/2020 12:55:36
and literally the first thing I heard when I got inside was a woman aggressively saying she hated people wearing masks. So... yeah.

(https://i.imgur.com/1gyoWu5.jpg)

Day and night here are different as ... day and night.

We were required to work in the office again since middle-June, so I had to use subway and was wearing a mask when on the route. My estimation still is that about 1/3 people wear masks.
Yesterday I left office late in the evening and decided to take a long walk home by foot. While passing the city center, I got into *huge* crowd of people, taking queues to the opened bars and cafes, talking and eating/drinking right on the pavewalk (since bars still do not let visitors to enter the building itself). Not a single person wearing mask. :)

Quote from: Slasher on Sat 27/06/2020 07:52:49
In the UK Boris Johnson has started even more easing off the Lock down so more businesses can reopen, like pubs.. Some say it's too soon..

There'll be limited spaces and too many people who can't wait to get pissed.

They're allowed to open from the 4th July in the UK. I'm certainly going to be waiting until at least a couple of weeks after that before I go to any, let all the people without the self-control to social distance catch it off each other first so they're no longer contagious by the time I get there.

Worth bearing in mind that alcohol is terrible for your immune system, especially for those already in one of the ‘at-risk’ groups. Just because pubs are open doesn’t mean they’re recommended. Drink responsibly, guys.

Quote from: Stupot on Sun 28/06/2020 04:25:02
Drink responsibly, guys.

Or wear the  “Virus Away” necklace while drinking!  :-D

In Sweden there's a massive heatwave right now and all the beaches and outdoor areas are packed, virus be damned. I've been staying indoors with a fan, but I feel like I'm the only one doing that.

We just had the first real summer weekend here (weather in May and June so far has been disappointing) and I went to the public pool and on a small hike in the woods with friends. There were lots of people, of course, but it was not a problem to keep some distance, if desired.
Sweden has some great outdoors, I'd be surprised if there isn't a place that is less crowded where you can safely spend a few hours outside.

In South Korea, the number of confirmed cases is increasing around the Seoul metropolitan area.

But Still, everyone lives their daily lives using masks and disinfectants.

I work a high public contact point at a main government building in upstate New York.  It's been effing nuts watching the idiot Karens and Kens overrun the U.S, denying masks, denying the virus is real.

Our building posted signs all around the main lobby requiring everyone to wear masks and social distance in public spaces.  But privately, the people running the building tell everyone, it's up to you, it's not mandatory.

And in my area, they posted an informal sign saying "masks aren't mandatory, but gloves are" - which makes even less sense, because one pair of gloves all day is the same as not wearing gloves at all.

I'm the only one on my team who wears a mask every day as I interact with the public.  My supervisor is a "damn government is just trying to control me, f*** Cuomo" guy.

The entire housekeeping staff pull masks on below their chins to fake compliance, and every day give me passive-aggressive jabs about "masks give you cancer!" and "masks kill you with carbon dioxide poisoning!" and other BS they don't understand the real science of.

Worst of all - the BUILDING NURSE is a mask denier.  She actively discourages people from masking up.

My wife has the same problem - she works in a non-medical-care department for a major hospital nearby.  Her whole department, including the bosses, tries to hide that they don't wear masks, even AFTER a couple COVID infections, one in their department, one in the child daycare on the floor below.  When inspectors come through, the bosses pretend they'll comply, then tell everyone to just wear them for the day and take them off again tomorrow.

My wife wears one, but her coworkers try to shame her daily into taking it off.

I'm at the point - if anyone coughs on me on purpose, I'll treat it as attempted murder and defend accordingly.  Anyone spits on me, they'll be spitting teeth.

@PlayPretend that's totally nuts. Very bizarre how some of these people think. So sorry to hear you and your family are having to deal daily with such clowns.

I am working in the office again since mid-June and no one wears masks here, except few people get them on when going through the lobby.

The employees in stores and various public service workers are probably only ones I've seen regularily wearing masks (but not at all times).

As an introvert who works at home, moves around on bike and does shopping no more than once a week I must say the fist weeks of lockdown was a best time of my life. No annoying guests or invitation to boring parties and being one of maybe 5 people in big mall was a memorable experience :)

I create kids animation so my branch wasn't hurt at all and even peaked a bit (we are badly wounded because of unfamous change of YouTube policy but that's a different story). I also bought more vinyl records than ever before - I just said I have to support local small entreprenours :D

Now I look at crowded malls, gathering (presidential election in Poland) and public transportation and see the most of people without masks. It will blow soon in our faces....

Possible we will see more of these viruses in the future, perhaps viruses that are by design. It’s clearly a tactic through which to disrupt the western world. (Sorry, I know that makes me sound like I need a tinfoil hat, but it just such an obvious tool China might want to explore down the road.)

Can only see terrorists thinking it's a good idea.
Unless you can design it so that your own population is immune, this disrupts as much the western world as the eastern and northern and southern... So all lands in the globe are having a hard time dealing with it and a serious economic bash.

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Thu 02/07/2020 20:18:58
So all lands in the globe are having a hard time dealing with it and a serious economic bash.

Everyone's is having (or had) a hard time, true, but China's mobile infrastructure and experience with pandemics like this have allowed it to fare phenomenally better than the west (or anywhere else for that matter). I mean, Chinese people didn't even have to be told to put masks on when the news broke; they just did it. This coupled with their cashless society and ability to track the health status and GPS location of every single person in the country via WeChat has meant disruption to daily life was much less affected than in the US (as one of many non-China examples), where Covid is going to linger for years.

So, today is the first day of Texas being to mandatory mask wearing. I knew better, but I looked on Facebook anyway. Someone I knew from High School posted a link about it and 3/4 of the responses were anti-mask. I wonder how these same people feel about washing hands...

We hear so much about wearing face masks or face coverings as they are now known as... wear them, don't where them... wash a few times a day thoroughly or wash as usual.. no wonder people are confused when venturing out of the house... All i can say is: don't live in fear...enjoy life...

If it was merely a matter of confusion, I wouldn't be upset with these people. But these are people who are against it mainly on the concept that being told to wear a mask in public imposes on their freedom.

Quote from: VampireWombat on Fri 03/07/2020 14:52:42
If it was merely a matter of confusion, I wouldn't be upset with these people. But these are people who are against it mainly on the concept that being told to wear a mask in public imposes on their freedom.

There's much more to it than that apparently and I for one tend to enjoy my days left ;)

There was some inconsistent and confusing advice on mask use early on in the pandemic, and of course we learn more as the crisis goes on, which causes reevaluation of some points (and there's always a tradeoff between maximum safety and what you can reasonably expect people to follow), but the best medical advice has been pretty clear and consistent for the last couple of months, and it's not all that complicated:

(https://www.who.int/images/default-source/health-topics/coronavirus/clothing-masks-infographic---(web)-logo-who.png?sfvrsn=b15e3742_16)

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/when-and-how-to-use-masks
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51205344

Small victory update: the Mayor of my area stopped by our building, saw all the people without masks, and had the Governor's office call to tell everyone to mask the f*** up. Some are still being children about it but a much higher percentage are complying now.

Which is good, 'cause Wednesday the US topped 50K new cases in a day.

Quote from: VampireWombat on Fri 03/07/2020 14:52:42
If it was merely a matter of confusion, I wouldn't be upset with these people. But these are people who are against it mainly on the concept that being told to wear a mask in public imposes on their freedom.

Ask them how they feel about old ladies walking around with their breasts out or men with their penis. After all, mandating that they wear clothes imposes on their freedom, doesn't it? Somehow, I don't think they would agree.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but I honestly can't wrap my head around this. How does wearing a mask has anything to do with freedom? If anything, it's the other way around - by not wearing a mask, people seriously impede the freedom of other people, mainly the freedom (or right) to stay alive!

Quote from: Sinitrena on Fri 03/07/2020 17:13:46
Ask them how they feel about old ladies walking around with their breasts out or men with their penis. After all, mandating that they wear clothes imposes on their freedom, doesn't it? Somehow, I don't think they would agree.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but I honestly can't wrap my head around this. How does wearing a mask has anything to do with freedom? If anything, it's the other way around - by not wearing a mask, people seriously impede the freedom of other people, mainly the freedom (or right) to stay alive!

I honestly have no idea where people like this draw the line. All I know is that there are certain Americans who simply think being told to wear a mask makes them defiant. One of the people said they'd have to put him in jail.

Thinking about it, the best comparison I can some up with is drunk driving. But I'd prefer not to ask their views on that subject either...

I thought this was a decent analogy:

(https://i.imgur.com/EmmlnTD.jpeg)

(Thread continues (http://[url=https://imgur.com/gallery/peWqBBq), but you get the gist.)

The "thread continues" just opens a blank tab for me. I had to quote you and use the link directly.

(https://i.imgur.com/UG2ntFf.jpg)

1/10

Quote
I mean, Chinese people didn't even have to be told to put masks on when the news broke; they just did it.

They (and other Asiatic lands) have been living with face masks since the "bird (H5) and swine (H1N1) flu" outbreaks some 10-11 years ago, some just adopted it as normal and others have them as backup for when these virus show up again. It's normal for them. Just like around 2009 and due to the possibility of it reaching us in Europe (or Denmark in particular) my then work place adopted the Ethanol hand sanitizing as normal procedure. We should sanitize when getting to work and into production, then when we went to the toilet or cantina/pause, again when we went back into production. Candy and stuff was no longer allowed to free "take", only wrapped food that you could take and so on... but we never did got an outbreak of these here... but procedure stayed in place (though it got slapped along the years and it was often that the ethanol containers were empty and took them a few days to replace - I assume they aren't now!)
Also Chinese people are used to be told what to do with little to no complain. We're not... and some people just don't accept the obvious.   (roll)

I still don't believe that their numbers are so low as they report. But that's just what I believe, I have no proof either way.

@PlayPretend, that really sucks!   :( If people want to be sick it's their right, but their rights stop where yours start! And you have the right to be healthy and not sick because of some idiots.

Thanks for the support, it's appreciated.  I think since NY was the first US epicenter and we largely flattened the curve, everyone's inappropriately relaxing.

It's like watching an inflated balloon - we pushed a finger down on NY, so the lazy people are ignoring that the balloon is inflating everywhere else with increased pressure.

It's like watching pincers close back around us.

Soon in the UK wearing masks will be mandatory in all shops...  Why am I not surprised.. People are fighting and arguing over masks and it's like watching a comedy spectacle from pure observation.. Let's see what's up next.. You could not make this up ;)

Quote from: Slasher on Sat 11/07/2020 13:27:04
Soon in the UK wearing masks will be mandatory in all shops...  Why am I not surprised.. People are fighting and arguing over masks and it's like watching a comedy spectacle from pure observation.. Let's see what's up next.. You could not make this up ;)

Heh, like that will be enforced.  (laugh)
You're supposed to wear a mask whenever you go on any public transport, but only about half of them do. At least where I live.

Two types of DIY coronavirus masks:

1) Stupid

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/62/45/bb/6245bbe37f0bd95450d3ea6d7031c523.png)

2) Awesome

(https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/coronavirus-masks2.jpg)

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Mon 13/07/2020 08:50:34

(https://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/coronavirus-masks2.jpg)

Is that a mask...inside a mask?

(https://i.imgur.com/NBobTon.jpg)

(https://scontent-nrt1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/118846914_4009896935693020_4821506718214100737_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=wORhEX-4qLoAX8Cv8uL&_nc_oc=AQkEGKA-zTZxp_pZETtdmL-pX9QsnuzAdU3DVMGAfS6rTlN6a5Vqjjf4Y9_op53k-GQ&_nc_ht=scontent-nrt1-1.xx&oh=0bb1168b7bf8e4c3a24aeb77919e858a&oe=5F793796)

TFW you are a U.S. police officer and don't wear protective gear

(https://i.imgur.com/2wu6bUd.png)
source (https://www.odmp.org/search/year/2020)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh_wFrJUwAAahQE?format=jpg)

This one was wasted on Twitter. I have almost zero reach.

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 16/09/2020 01:31:30
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eh_wFrJUwAAahQE?format=jpg)

This one was wasted on Twitter. I have almost zero reach.

I'm guessing the "Stan" reference is key, but I don't get it actually. Is that Sting's or someone else's real name?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stan (now also used as a verb, see def. 2)

I guess I get the joke, but I feel it doesn't quite hit because the shift in meaning from the original isn't big enough.

Well, I guess you guys aren’t my target audience either.  :cry:

Hopefully, I’ll get a better response over on Mumsnet.

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 16/09/2020 14:28:17
Well, I guess you guys aren’t my target audience either.  :cry:

Hopefully, I’ll get a better response over on Mumsnet.

Well, I learnt the new-to-me term of "Stan" as describing a devoted or over-zealous fan...

But, yeah, even Gary Larson had his "Cow Tools" debacle so you are in the company of comedy legends.

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 16/09/2020 14:28:17
Well, I guess you guys aren’t my target audience either.  :cry:

Hopefully, I’ll get a better response over on Mumsnet.

You know, if Snarky had found it funnier, he would have had to move it over to the funny pics thread.  :P

I liked the reference to the Sting song, but didn't know the Stan slang term. Shows my age, probably.

UK   Massive rally in Trafalgar sq....

Totally crazy~

Quote"Outnumbered officers were pushed back by the huge crowd, which began cheering and chanting 'freedom' while organisers of the Resist And Act For Freedom rally sold T-shirts bearing 5G conspiracy theories."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750505/Anti-mask-mayhem-Trafalgar-Square-Conspiracy-theorists-clash-police.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750505/Anti-mask-mayhem-Trafalgar-Square-Conspiracy-theorists-clash-police.html)

Hey why not make a buck while fighting the system, man! (laugh)

Quote from: milkanannan on Sat 19/09/2020 14:29:44
Totally crazy~

Quote"Outnumbered officers were pushed back by the huge crowd, which began cheering and chanting 'freedom' while organisers of the Resist And Act For Freedom rally sold T-shirts bearing 5G conspiracy theories."

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750505/Anti-mask-mayhem-Trafalgar-Square-Conspiracy-theorists-clash-police.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8750505/Anti-mask-mayhem-Trafalgar-Square-Conspiracy-theorists-clash-police.html)

Hey why not make a buck while fighting the system, man! (laugh)

I'm watching it live.... there are no yellow jacket protesters  i can see mate. I'll carry on watching and see what happens...

It's easy to dig into conspiracy theories and say idiotic stuff like "Plandemic" and "Scam", especially when you are watching your own small business go into bankruptcy because of something that feels like it is out of your control.

Of course people want to take out their frustrations and claim that the government is orchestrating the whole thing just to crush them.

But this is not what is actually going on.

What is actually going on is that an "arriving pretty much on schedule" pandemic has happened. The governments were not prepared for this, because we, as humans, just ignore things until it becomes a bother for us and then it's too late sometimes.

And we are even playing this level on "Easy" mode where the virus doesn't kill friggin' everyone within a month.

So, yes, I feel sorry for the frustrated people who are losing their livelihoods and are blaming the government for having planned this whole thing out in some insane world where governments actually are able to do that without a single moral-minded whistle-blower coming out, but rioting is not the answer and just increases the spread of the virus.

I have no answer for the people who have lost their entire financial savings over this, however. The government is not prepared to fund everyone. We are going to have to go through a period of financial blues.

But please, to these people, please don't go out and take out your frustrations on others.

Britain survived daily bombings during WW2 by banding together and just helping each other out.

A virus is not as obvious or visible threat as a Nazi bomb or soldier, but the same spirit should be happening.

Someone I know went back to China recently. This is what you go through on arrival (and if you don’t like it you literally cannot enter the country):

Quote@trivial dudeâ€...I did two sets of testing for Covid. One set on my first day of quarantine and one set on my last full day of quarantine. They did a blood test, and a throat swab. Two nurses in hazmat suites took my temperature twice a day, in the morning and the evening. A lady in a hazmat suit would come in with a disinfecting sprayer and spray down my toilet every morning. Otherwise there was no interactions. Food and deliveries were left on the floor outside our doors 3 times a day and they would ring the door bell when it was there. They made me sign loads of paperwork on the first day too, saying I was there of my own volition, that I wouldn’t leave the room, and authorizations to have them notify the Canadian embassy for me (and they did).

I think the problem is that we've been creating a "me" culture for quite some time now.
Whenever I see someone claim "My body, my choice" in relation to wearing a mask, I sigh and think "me, me, me... it all handles about "me"... fk everybody else".  :~(

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Sat 19/09/2020 21:25:51
I think the problem is that we've been creating a "me" culture for quite some time now.
Whenever I see someone claim "My body, my choice" in relation to wearing a mask, I sigh and think "me, me, me... it all handles about "me"... fk everybody else".  :~(

Well said!!! And then even one step further below those people we have the pandemic deniers, most of whom are also either flat-earthers or Qanon or anti-vaxxers or anti-5Gers or, in many cases, all of the above.

On that note I'll recommend this podcast: https://soundcloud.com/qanonanonymous/
Which is very depressing but also very entertaining. What I like especially is that they focus their ire on the asshole grifters as opposed to the hapless victims of the scam.

Should fit here, also time to revive this thread I guess, given the current numbers and shutdowns everywhere.



I had never heard of this outbreak, not even in conjunction with the infamous earthquake.
Also, again, we have learnt nothing. Nothing.

Quote from: Mandle on Sun 20/09/2020 01:11:33

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Sat 19/09/2020 21:25:51
I think the problem is that we've been creating a "me" culture for quite some time now.
Whenever I see someone claim "My body, my choice" in relation to wearing a mask, I sigh and think "me, me, me... it all handles about "me"... fk everybody else".  :~(

Well said!!! And then even one step further below those people we have the pandemic deniers, most of whom are also either flat-earthers or Qanon or anti-vaxxers or anti-5Gers or, in many cases, all of the above.

This!

Well we're in lockdown here in Slovenia too. I was just recently in contact with my mother in law that is positive for covid and I'm pretty sure I got it. It's not pleasant
But untill things really go downhill I'll selfisolate.

We already started working from home in my company. But to be honest me and the mrs. are starting to go a bit stir crazy.

The situation here isn't pleasant. We're also a very "me" centric country and there are a lot of protests on the streets. Restaurants and cafes are closing down and going out of business, even I lost a perfect job opportunity because of covid. Then there are the mask deniers that plain out don't wear masks because they don't work anyway and are "actually" bad for you. I hate it but we'll have to tough it out.

Sorry to hear that, and hope you get well soon!

Quote from: viktor on Mon 30/11/2020 09:21:14
Well we're in lockdown here in Slovenia too. I was just recently in contact with my mother in law that is positive for covid and I'm pretty sure I got it. It's not pleasant
But untill things really go downhill I'll selfisolate.

Get well soon.

Quote from: Snarky on Mon 30/11/2020 21:40:52
Sorry to hear that, and hope you get well soon!

Quote from: Danvzare on Tue 01/12/2020 15:49:20

Quote from: viktor on Mon 30/11/2020 09:21:14
Well we're in lockdown here in Slovenia too. I was just recently in contact with my mother in law that is positive for covid and I'm pretty sure I got it. It's not pleasant
But untill things really go downhill I'll selfisolate.

Get well soon.

Thank you. Health isn't so bad to be honest but the whole situation is frustrating to no end.

After a period with masks inside commercial and public places, and continued infection increasing (and deaths), we're now going in for a new lockdown. Big commercial centers will be closed from tomorrow already, from monday a few more stuff will be closed (including schools and free-time activities) and from 25th Dec. everything, except supermarkets and pharmacies, will be closed until 3rd Januar.

LOL, our government in it's infinite wisdom opened certain shops for a week then closed them down again. For 2 months we are already limited to our own municipalities and are not allowed to travel around the country. That doesn't sound to irritating but the thing is Slovenia is known for being one of the countries that has the most municipalities for it's size. So basically any small town with a post office can be it's own municipality. I basically can't go anywhere. My municipality has one small grocery store and a post office :P. And now they are lifting the travel ban for Christmas and New Year as if the virus will take time off for the holidays.

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Wed 16/12/2020 17:49:41
After a period with masks inside commercial and public places, and continued infection increasing (and deaths), we're now going in for a new lockdown. Big commercial centers will be closed from tomorrow already, from monday a few more stuff will be closed (including schools and free-time activities) and from 25th Dec. everything, except supermarkets and pharmacies, will be closed until 3rd January.

That's pretty much what's happening here, too. The plan was for the relaxation of rules for the Christmas period to last until into early January, but now it's back to total lock-down on the December 26th.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Thu 24/12/2020 00:19:21

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Wed 16/12/2020 17:49:41
After a period with masks inside commercial and public places, and continued infection increasing (and deaths), we're now going in for a new lockdown. Big commercial centers will be closed from tomorrow already, from monday a few more stuff will be closed (including schools and free-time activities) and from 25th Dec. everything, except supermarkets and pharmacies, will be closed until 3rd January.

That's pretty much what's happening here, too. The plan was for the relaxation of rules for the Christmas period to last until into early January, but now it's back to total lock-down on the December 26th.

It's almost as though no one has any idea of what to do.  ???

Quote from: Danvzare on Thu 24/12/2020 17:48:02

Quote from: LimpingFish on Thu 24/12/2020 00:19:21

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Wed 16/12/2020 17:49:41
After a period with masks inside commercial and public places, and continued infection increasing (and deaths), we're now going in for a new lockdown. Big commercial centers will be closed from tomorrow already, from monday a few more stuff will be closed (including schools and free-time activities) and from 25th Dec. everything, except supermarkets and pharmacies, will be closed until 3rd January.

That's pretty much what's happening here, too. The plan was for the relaxation of rules for the Christmas period to last until into early January, but now it's back to total lock-down on the December 26th.

It's almost as though no one has any idea of what to do.  ???

What this reminds me is one of those games where you have to keep number of meters up by keep working at one at a time, while others fall down, so you keep switching between them.
First people who are afraid of virus yell at government to impose a lockdown, then people who are tired of lockdown want it cancelled, then people who are afraid of virus are back, then other people say "but we want Christmas holidays!!" and this goes in circles.

Here we have a lockdown and also mandatory wearing of masks Outside as well - which is really annoying and likely pointless if not counter-productive (eg for people with breathing problems).

You'll have far more people with "breathing problems" if you don't do it. A mask is preferrable to a tube down your throat.

Wearing a mask while outside only makes sense if you're in a crowded area; otherwise all you're doing is decreasing its effectiveness by making it damp.
I feel terrible when I see old people on the sidewalk with their masks on even though there's no one around.

edit: typo

Here in Japan I've noticed that most people are wearing masks even when walking alone down an empty street. I suspect it's more out of a fear of being judged by others than that they feel an actual need for it. Like "I'm doing my part" kinda thing.
Disturbingly, I also see the hand sanitizers that are everywhere now for free public use, going ignored. Masks are a much smaller (but still important) part of the solution than is just disinfecting your hands constantly IMO. I'd say that if a study was possible that it would show that 80% or more of people get infected by picking up the virus on their hands and transmitting it to their face than catch it through airborne transmission.

Here's a great article about air transmission: https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-room-a-bar-and-a-class-how-the-coronavirus-is-spread-through-the-air.html

Still, using hand sanitizers is definitely also important. A woman on the radio here in Germany used a funny but very apt analogy: it's like slices of Swiss cheese; each slice has holes in it, but if you stack several of them, the holes are gone.

New cases are going down in Germany right now, but that's probably due to the restrictions having gotten more severe two weeks ago. There's going to be a major uptick in the first half of January, and we already have a mortuary running out of space in the region with the most victims of right-wing propaganda.

Quote from: Khris on Thu 24/12/2020 23:32:33
Wearing a mask while outside only makes sense if you're in a crowded area; otherwise all you're doing is decreasing its effectiveness by making it damp.
I feel terrible when I see old people on the sidewalk with their masks on even though there's no one around.

edit: typo

Wearing masks indoors - eg in supermarkets - is something I never had a problem with. But being ordered to wear a mask outside, even if there is no one else within 300 metres of you, doesn't seem to do anything.
People have been fined 300 euros for not wearing them. During the first lockdown (back in March) masks outside weren't part of the rules, so no one wore them. Back then supposedly the government handled everything great and we had next to no deaths (less than 200 for the first 6 months), but apparently it just was lucky and did nothing right, much like now it still does nothing right but luck run out and the dead are over 4000.
Nothing to do with luck in the latter case anyway - the country has too few special covid-19 emergency hospital beds.

Britain termed "Plague Island" - challenges, but also opportunities  :=



(https://i.imgur.com/hgWnZSx.png)


Maybe people can do like in the plague of 1666, and move to the countryside where an apple falling on their head reading Kepler's laws and using their generalized binomial theorem leads them to come up with a new theory of mechanics.

Cases are rising (well, everywhere, but) in NY again, and it's finally blowing up in the government building where I work.

There's a parole office fifty feet from my desk, and it's the main source of cases.  Half the officers in there are mask deniers, virus hoaxers, etc., so not surprising.  Even after 8 cases in the past few weeks, some of them still walk around without masks on, going back and forth by my desk.  One of the officers kept coming to my desk last Friday to tell my boss how much infection they have.  Then sounded angry and panicky yesterday about it - and then IMMEDIATELY launches into how skeptical he still is that it exists or it's dangerous, because "our Governor is probably just trying to cause riots so he can play hero and be a king and sell another book".

A few other cases have hit on higher floors, and the housekeepers sanitizing those floors tend to go clean, then come downstairs, take off their mask and walk around chatting.

Yesterday, several unmasked people stopped to chat from three feet away with my unmasked supervisor, one of them from Parole.  A few days ago I had to stop an unmasked coworker from walking one foot away from me to show me something on his phone that I didn't even want or need to see.  He got all pissed and huffy and yanked his mask up but didn't back away until I told him to again.

Fortunately, the masks-make-you-sick building manager is retiring in a couple weeks, fingers crossed his replacement actually believes in virus safety.  I think it's time to report the whole building to our Mayor and Governor and see if they can do anything.

In this same week, I've also had blow-up arguments with my mom and brother, who are both using the "I'm smart and careful, so it's okay for *me* to"...go out to lunch at a restaurant, find out they got exposed but not isolate from their wife and baby because "ahhh, no point, if I have it they have it by now anyways, probably".

I hate, HATE that I might get sick and die, or kill my wife, because of all these fucking idiots.  The sheer amount of people whose last words must be, "But I didn't!" know, believe, think, etc., as the virus eats them alive.  The thought that I might die and some asshole will go, "But - but - I didn't MEAN to -"  It's worse, somehow, than getting intentionally murdered.  Death by "oops, oh well".

Sorry to hear that you still have to deal with all those idiots.  :~(

Thanks Cassie. :(

Quote from: PlayPretend on Fri 25/12/2020 11:39:38
Death by "oops, oh well".

I read your whole post and maybe the media should start asking dying Covid patients if they would like their final moments to be recorded and broadcasted in the event that they pass away from the virus.

And then the news should play those clips.

I think too many of the hard-core virus deniers are probably such because they haven't seen anyone die from the virus themselves... I also haven't seen that but I'm not a crazy conspiracy theorist and believe the numbers we are being told.

But, for those who think it's a hoax or over-exaggerated... Maybe some news reports showing people actually dying in their last moments may convince them.

Bah, who am I kidding? I know these people. They will just double-down and say the clips were staged and that the dying person was an actor and that their family, screaming with grief outside, were all actors.

I always want to be understanding to people, but ugh.  My job basically involves telling grown adults not to do stupid things that can hurt people - and it's killing me that I'm locked in a situation where I don't have the authority to officially tell these coworkers to stop being dangerous, it just devolves into childish reasoning and bullshit fake-science arguments.  And the people who do have that authority to control them are part of the problem.

Update - the parole officer who kept coming over to tell us about all the infections - bedridden for three days, has now tested positive.

Other update - my brother is now forced to isolate because his nearby officemate has tested positive - officemate only masks up half the time - was leaning over my brother's shoulder to read stuff all yesterday - and, surprising no one, voted for the Tyrant.

I honestly don't get all the panic and lockdown. Why is it less dangerous to go to a supermarket than to a book store? Why is it okay to go skiing but not to a zoo? Why can you use crowded public transport to get to work in a small office with other people but not meet your best friend together together with your family?
I know a few people who got infected (all variants: from no symptoms over short fever to still not fully recovered after months) but none of them got it in a shop or at the zoo but either at work or when meeting other people inside.

If you are afraid of the virus, just buy a proper mask (FFP2). I have one and I use it in certain situations (e.g. when going to the doctor). There was a shortage in spring, but now they are easily available everywhere.

I've heard that half of the people who died of it in my country lived in retirement homes. They made lots of stupid regulations for shops and restaurants and who you can meet or not, but I know first hand that some staff in retirement homes doesn't even wear a simple mask.

PlayPretend:
That sounds like a total nightmare, I hope you get through this unharmed.

cat:
It's about reducing transmission wherever possible, so when something isn't essential (unlike supermarkets or public transport), it gets closed down. Also, if shops, libraries, zoos, etc. are closed, less people are outside traveling there. The main goal is still to get people to stay at home.
To be specific: you're allowed to go to work but not meet your friend because if you catch the virus in the office, you don't spread it to your friend. It's really that simple.

I'm glad that I don't have to worry about being questioned by the police when I'm outside during the day, but I still think it's kind of insane that we don't have an actual lockdown what with all the idiots and deniers keeping the numbers here at around 25,000 new infections per day currently.

Our lockdown (Denmark) has now been extended til the 17th Jan, since the numbers is infections hasn't gone down yet. Still they have decided to allow fireworks and such for new year (but no gatherings of more than 10 and many popular gathering places will be lockdown)... Sigh, if it was up to me they should have locked down back in early Nov when it was clear the numbers were going up, instead of adding shy "random" restrictions that don't work anyway (not in the big picture anyway IMHO).

Annndd...Ireland is back to full lockdown.

Wasn't much of a surprise, as positive cases have more than quadrupled in the last couple of days (from 300 to almost 2000 per day). Vaccine rollout has started, but it's going to be a slow process.

I'll be staying in mask mode for the foreseeable future.

I agree with Khris, when he says that idiots and denyers are exacerbating the coronavirus problem. After the first lockdown there was a significant improvement,
but as soon as the harsher restrictions were lifted, the morons took this to mean that they could do as they pleased.  Governments are doing their best to keep
people safe and keep economies running. The public need to take responsibility and heed the warnings.

Also what is it with the need to take endless holidays. One a year used to suffice. All I hear is constant whingeing because travel plans have been disrupted.
Boo hoo! my heart bleeds for them. Sod holidays, let's just stay in our own countries until when, and if, the coronavirus has been brought under control.

Stay safe and healthy everyone.

Update: Four more positive cases today in the department near mine.  It turns out they've been lying about the numbers to avoid paying $1500 per cleaning, because the cleaner is a lazy idiot who just walks through lightly spraying each office once and doesn't do any real cleaning.  Fortunately my boss put the pieces together and we're trying to get the upper management on board to put a stop to this nonsense.  And I finally got vocal to the people walking by maskless to chat with my boss.

cat: I'm just advocating dealing with the reality of the virus.  I'm not sure where you live, maybe it hasn't been as bad there.  Around here it's horrifying.

Anyone, of any age or health condition, can get it.  And it's not the flu - if you survive, you can still suffer for months, or be permanently damaged.  Lose teeth, lose hair, brain damage, vascular damage, breathe at 80% lung capacity for the rest of your life, etc.  You can have it, think you've recovered, then drop dead weeks or months later.  It's a crazy lottery of terrifying stuff.

The U.S. has a 3% death rate, which is a nice way of saying over 300,000 have died since March, 3-4K new deaths per day right now, 250K new infections per day.  Some countries are at 9-10% death rates.  And our 3% depends on our hospital infrastructure not getting overwhelmed - which it's currently heading for.

And masks are good and should always be used, but they're not magical shields.  They're a last defense.

The U.S. sooort of tried inconsistent lockdowns - which is why we're drowning in COVID now.  We should have locked down hard for a month or two and killed it, like other countries did.  But idiots in power politicized it, got the lazy, selfish and childish citizens on board, and here we are.

PlayPretend: The situation is not as terrible where I live, people are mostly considerate regarding wearing a mask. But you are in a bad situation and worried, so I strongly suggest you get a PROPER mask - I am talking about a FFP2/KN95 mask, not those paper/cloth masks. They filter a huge amount of particles and with Corona virus, the number of virus that enters your body does matter. You will not be 100% safe when you wear it, but very unlikely to get severely sick or even infected at all.


Khris: I think it's ridiculous to say it's okay to get infected at work but you are not allowed to meet someone in private to make sure you don't spread it. It should be the other way round. When you have a dangerous job, like working on roofs or something, you have to use equipment to protect you from falling (enforced by work safely laws). On the other hand, when you enjoy climbing as your hobby, you can skip all ropes if you want, because you make your own decisions. The same should apply for Corona - you should be safe at work (i.e. your employer lets you work from home or provide you with protective equipment), but if you choose to meet someone in private, it is your and your friends decision to do so.

As I said before, dangerous places are where lots of people are close to each other inside for a longer time, i.e. your workplace or when meeting with friends. If it was dangerous to be in a shop where all people wear masks anyway, all supermarket employees would have been infected by now, which is not the case.


Anyway, I'm not in a mood to argue anymore, so I'll leave the discussion.

I completely forgot about this: deaths and cases are spiking in Germany currently, three weeks after Christmas and two weeks after New Year's Eve.

So good news bad news - our anti-masker building manager finally retired. I finally reported all the other anti-maskers and virus-hoaxers in our building.

And then nearly got fired.

We got an email reminding us all that it's law - you have to wear a mask in public spaces like lobbies, restrooms, etc. Not just recommended, actual law.

I responded, asking how to approach hardcore anti-maskers, thinking the person who sent the email was a low level employee like me.

Turned out they were about as high as you could go in our chain of command, AND hardcore pro-mask, so they opened up a can on the people running our building about getting their employees in line.

So the kneejerk reaction of those lower managers was to consider firing me for "jumping the chain of command" and getting them in trouble. They heard me out and I kept my job, although of course several people are still really pissed at me.

Still a couple folks for them to deal with, including a coworker from my front desk who heard what I'd done and decided to double down on being even more anti-mask? I had to politely ask him to remask, which made him blow up at me but eventually comply.

Oh well. The variants are starting to sweep our area, so we can't afford the lazy, angry and selfish children anymore.

Lol how can any office worker still beat the anti-mask drum. It’s truly baffling.

Our former building manager was in the "masks make you sick" camp. My desk co-worker believes masks do nothing, so he takes his off, then points a big fan across himself directly at me, removing all social distance. And the other guy down the hall they need to talk to thinks it's a government plot to control everyone, masks are a means of mental subjugation.

Haha. Sorry you have to go through that, PlayPretend. It’s amazing they have to make it law and people still refuse. In Japan mask-wearing is only a recommendation, yet pretty everyone is wearing them. Yesterday: 1570 new recorded infections, nationwide.

Japan still stubbornly think there’s going to be an Olympics this year. I can’t see it happening. We haven’t even started vaccinating yet. There’s talk of having it behind closed doors but what would be the point?

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 10/02/2021 02:12:01
Japan still stubbornly think there’s going to be an Olympics this year. I can’t see it happening. We haven’t even started vaccinating yet. There’s talk of having it behind closed doors but what would be the point?

TV rights and money, I'd guess.
The 2020 Hockey World Championships were insured, so the organizers got a hefty paycheck when the competition was cancelled. Maybe the Olympics, with special infrastructure projects and vastly greater investment, is in an opposite situation and a lot of people stand to lose a lot of money if the contest isn't held? Even if the contest is held behind closed doors, in a stump version of itself, at least the organizers can say they held it and fulfil a contractual obligation. Or maybe it's just a matter of pride for them.

As for my own pandemic experience, it's turned out quite well up here in Finland. Maybe a third of people wear masks in public places, though social distancing and inviolable personal space were core concepts of Finnish culture well before the pandemic (in Finnish culture it is generally considered rude to stand within stabbing distance of other people), so that might have helped restrict spread. My office of 100+ workers currently has maybe 3 to 5 people present at any given time, and I myself go there once or twice a week just to get out of my home for a bit. Almost everyone works from home if their job allows it. Grocery store food delivery service industry is booming as people avoid going to the shops.

Government has set a goal to vaccinate 70% of the country by July, which most people consider "a tad optimistic". Currently less than 4% vaccinated. Daily new infection rate in a country of about 5 million people is around 400.

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 10/02/2021 02:12:01
Japan still stubbornly think there’s going to be an Olympics this year. I can’t see it happening. We haven’t even started vaccinating yet. There’s talk of having it behind closed doors but what would be the point?

Do you think we're going to get a "Mario and Sonic at the 2021 Tokyo Olympic Games" if it does happen this year?  (laugh)

Quote from: Danvzare on Thu 11/02/2021 16:25:23

Quote from: Stupot on Wed 10/02/2021 02:12:01
Japan still stubbornly think there’s going to be an Olympics this year. I can’t see it happening. We haven’t even started vaccinating yet. There’s talk of having it behind closed doors but what would be the point?

Do you think we're going to get a "Mario and Sonic at the 2021 Tokyo Olympic Games" if it does happen this year?  (laugh)

I’d love to see some sort of nod to those games. There have been some Mario 35th anniversary things going on but it’s been quite low-key, and they opened Super Nintendo Land recently, so that’s all good.

There are anti-lockdown demonstrations in various european countries. I think that it's not sustainable to have a lockdown for much longer, at least in the less hit countries - and when all this finally ends, you can expect tens or in some countries hundreds of thousands of people being without a job.

As Ireland prepares to exit lockdown (or at least ease a total lockdown), I'd just like to point out that I will kind of miss it. It's given me a new appreciation of various things, as I've struggled to occupy the seemingly endless empty hours, including music, movies, games, and new and interesting alcoholic beverages.

When one has spent almost eighteen months in a kind of nebulus limbo, and come to accept it as normality, it may be something of a shock to return to "reality".

/takes another drink

To quote Groucho Marx, "I do not care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members."

...

Or maybe I really am the walrus.

Coo Coo Cachoo.

Oh man, just reread parts of this thread. Early days of COVID feel like a lifetime ago!

What's everyone's scene now? Here (UAE) new cases are down to a few hundred a day and masking is no longer required unless a business requests it. Most people still wear their mask anyway, including me.

Here, Denmark, we're back to "normal".
Masks aren't required anywhere (except maybe hospitals). Few people still wear them, test centers have mostly closed, there's only one left where I live now (for PCR test). Quick tests have also been dropped, you can now buy them in the pharmacy if you want to test yourself.
Only thing left is the hand sanitizer at the shops door, they're still providing it and recommending you to use it.

In Germany many restrictions will be removed tomorrow, but it'll be different between the federal states and up to them to decide what will change.

Meanwhile the numbers are on an all time high, with 260,000 new infections today and a 7 day incidence rate of 1,800. Hospitalization rate and covid deaths are rather low though.

Quote from: milkanannan on Sat 19/03/2022 03:14:06
Oh man, just reread parts of this thread. Early days of COVID feel like a lifetime ago!

So true!

260,000 new infections in a day is insane. Are you sure you didn’t put an extra zero?

Either way, best in mind that those number only count the people who tested positive. And these days with symptoms much milder, you can guarantee there are many many more people who didn’t bother testing even if they felt symptoms.

Quote from: Stupot on Sun 20/03/2022 00:12:51
260,000 new infections in a day is insane. Are you sure you didn’t put an extra zero?

No, it's true. Last winter was nothing compared to what's happening right now. This is a graphic that shows the 7 day incidence over the last two years. The numbers go up since the beginning of the year and went through the roof.


(https://i.imgur.com/FCo4TD0.png)

In Austria we currently have a 7 day incidence rate of 3500, which is about twice as much as Germany. From the numbers published so far, I'd estimate that somewhere between 25%-30% of population have been infected with Omicron already. I think the sooner everyone got it, the better. Sadly, because of the high numbers, they now decided to have more mask wearing again from mid of next week (which of course means I'll go to office and shopping before this).

Covid was not pleasant, but so was the common cold I got a week afterwards. I was mostly worried about organisational stuff, like getting a certificate of recovery for my kids (we had problems getting the tests work for them) and getting them back to kindergarten as soon as possible.

Yeah we went from essentially knowing one or two people that had had earlier covid variants to essentially EVERYONE we know (including us) getting omni. I mean, it’s kind of rare now to meet someone that hasn’t yet had it!

I'm from the UK and as of yet I have not have any Covid infections or Positive results...I'm 66 and apart from the usual aches and pains I'm fine...

Quote from: Slasher on Mon 21/03/2022 11:15:32
I'm from the UK and as of yet I have not have any Covid infections or Positive results...I'm 66 and apart from the usual aches and pains I'm fine...

Same goes for me, my dad, my brother, and my mother.
My sister's had it though, and so has her boyfriend. As a matter of fact, they've had it at least twice!  ???

I still have no idea how my dad never caught it though, considering his lifestyle.

Quote from: cat on Sun 20/03/2022 15:19:49
In Austria we currently have a 7 day incidence rate of 3500...they now decided to have more mask wearing again.

The numbers are only going to go up, unfortunately, with this new BA2 variant. We had 25,000 new cases in the last 24hrs, a huge jump from the 1500+ average we were registering each day since all restrictions were lifted. I'm still masking up in indoor public areas and on public transport, and I'll continue to do so, but plenty of people are choosing not to, which is currently their choice (officials have said there are no plans right now to re-introduce compulsory mask wearing). I'm just glad that BA2, though more virulent, doesn't seem to be any more dangerous than Omicron.

Quote from: Slasher on Mon 21/03/2022 11:15:32
I'm from the UK and as of yet I have not have any Covid infections or Positive results...

Have you been regularly testing with antigen or PCR tests? Omicron hit every member of my immediate family (tested and verified), including an older person who wasn't vaccinated, and it was really no worse than a bad cold or light flu. If we hadn't been testing, we probably wouldn't have noticed it was Covid, and not something else. I'm sure there are many instances of people, who aren't testing themselves, thinking they just have a head cold or some such.

Ahem. Here's something I said in another thread, back in 2021:

Quote from: Danvzare on Fri 15/01/2021 16:15:59

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Thu 14/01/2021 23:45:05
So far these mutations seem to just be "more infectious"... just think if it mutates to "more deadly"? or "more infectious & more deadly"?  8-0

Here's something to think about. If it was equally as infectious, but less deadly, it would appear to be more infectious as more people would walk around without realizing that they have it, and therefore infect more people. And keep in mind that if you come down really bad or even die for that matter, you're less likely to pass it onto someone else as you'll stay in bed. So it stands to reason that mutations that are less deadly, will also be more likely to spread. Meaning as time goes by, a very infectious virus should in theory become increasingly less deadly. Or at the very least, have a longer incubation period.
Also don't forget that your body starts to build up a tolerance to it (or at the very least, those who don't die are already likely to continue to survive).

In other words. There's a reason why the common cold was so deadly to anywhere we brought it to, yet it's now considered harmless everywhere. Not to mention how plagues in the past just kind of... disappeared.

Once again though, please take all of this with a pinch of salt. And if possible, I'd rather be corrected then continue to be wrong.  :-D

Now compare this to what LimpingFish just said.

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 22/03/2022 19:08:34
Have you been regularly testing with antigen or PCR tests? Omicron hit every member of my immediate family (tested and verified), including an older person who wasn't vaccinated, and it was really no worse than a bad cold or light flu. If we hadn't been testing, we probably wouldn't have noticed it was Covid, and not something else. I'm sure there are many instances of people, who aren't testing themselves, thinking they just have a head cold or some such.

I just want to proudly say that I managed to successfully predict that Covid would become more infectious and less deadly with each passing mutation.  :-D
Sorry, I just want to bask in getting something right for once.



Also for the record, my dad tests himself with a lateral flow test every time he gets a cold. If he caught it, I'd know. If anyone I knew caught it, I would've caught and then passed it to him, and then know. The only thing I can think of is that most of my family are asymptomatic. Which makes me feel sorry for my sister.  :-\

What's "a lateral flow test"??  ???

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Tue 22/03/2022 20:43:18
What's "a lateral flow test"??  ???

It's the common rapid DIY tests where you swab in nostrils and/or throat and drip it on a reader to check if you have one or two lines visible.

Quote from: Danvzare on Tue 22/03/2022 19:58:43
Also for the record, my dad tests himself with a lateral flow test every time he gets a cold. If he caught it, I'd know. If anyone I knew caught it, I would've caught and then passed it to him, and then know. The only thing I can think of is that most of my family are asymptomatic. Which makes me feel sorry for my sister.  :-\

I test myself whenever I get a "scare" or I feel some symptoms, and have been negative so far. Since omicron, all my colleagues in my department have had it now, and whenever they return, they eye me suspiciously as the only person who claims to have not had it yet  :grin:. I wonder if I HAVE had it, and just randomly got negative tests, though- I have seen that happen, at least 2 people I know were testing themselves and always showed negative, but then eventually for some reason had to do a PCR test, and were positive.

Hey Slasher! Glad to hear you are ok :)

Quote from: eri0o on Wed 23/03/2022 13:27:28
Hey Slasher! Glad to hear you are ok :)

Thank you my friend.... I needed the time off....With God on my side I'll be back  (laugh)

Cheers

Slasher

Ah, those known as "anti-gen test"...  :) I read that those, depending on the brand, can be as liable to correctly detect Covid-19 from 2% to +80%...

So I guess, if you using one of the brands that is in the lower end, you might have had it and the test say you haven't...  :-\

The brand we used was actually pretty accurate. Also the thickness of the line correlated nicely with PCR results. What we figured out, however, is that where and how you do the swab is most important. When they did it in the mouth for our kids, PCR returned negative although the self-test from the nose was clearly positive. We tried a set of self-tests on the same person at the same time, one from the mouth and one from the nose. The nose-test was highly positive, the mouth-test was negative.

I've only ever used the nasal technique, myself, which is also the only technique I've even heard anyone talk about or seen anyone else get.  I can't see how an oral swab would be as effective, unless mucus (ew!) had gathered at the back of the throat.

Either way, I can attest to the variable accuracy of antigen tests, having had both negative and positive results alternating within a very short time. :-\

It really can be down to the amount and viscosity of the mucus (ew!) you manage to get on the swab.

This is a graph showing the 7 day average of new cases in Munich, Germany over the last two weeks.

(https://i.imgur.com/m0WZWr0.png)

Just from looking at this, you can tell exactly when they dropped the mask mandate.
We're living in the dumbest timeline, but soon it won't matter anyway because we will not start reducing carbon emissions by 2025 so we'll all have got bigger problems soon anyway.

Illustration below.

Spoiler

(https://i.imgur.com/AhmYC6I.png)

[close]

Hey, my friend here is really bad at reading graphs. Things are going down instead of up there, down is good right?

In South Korea, many regulations due to Covid19 are being lifted. The number of confirmed cases is also decreasing.

Originally, there were social distancing and restrictions on the number of people in meetings. As it enters the endemic, it is changing its policy to be with COVID-19.

And right away, people around me started to get infected with Covid19.

There were people with severe aftereffects. I'm a little afraid because I've also had a lung disease. It is hopeful that Covid-19 is heading for an endemic. Still, South Korea seems to be positive about covdi19.

Quote from: Khris on Tue 12/04/2022 12:07:48
Just from looking at this, you can tell exactly when they dropped the mask mandate.

It looks about right to me. I'd be willing to bet that it would look the exact same with or without the mask mandate. But I guess we'll never know. (Personally, I'm of the opinion that keeping a 2-meter distance is more effective than reusing a single-use mask that's made to prevent the spread of bacteria during surgery, and that the masks simply made people relax on the whole distance thing. But that's just my humble opinion.)
I'd love to have some sort of graph to compare, where one country never implemented mask mandates, while another enforced it throughout the pandemic.  :-D

Quote from: Khris on Tue 12/04/2022 12:07:48
We're living in the dumbest timeline, but soon it won't matter anyway because we will not start reducing carbon emissions by 2025 so we'll all have got bigger problems soon anyway.

Now THAT is the real terrifying prospect!  8-0
What's worse, is that I'm pretty sure everyone is so greedy that they're actively making things worse while saying they're making it better. Public transport where I live has been slowly getting destroyed during the pandemic! Like seriously! Shouldn't we be investing in public transport! It's certainly a better alternative to electric cars I think, which they seem intent on pushing. I can't imagine the problems those will eventually create. Even if we produced all of our energy using nuclear salt-reactors (which we don't), there's still the problem with lithium.
The future is scary indeed. And that's just the transport systems. Don't get me started on the trend of leaving all of your electronics on at all times (turning off a modern console is hidden away behind several menus now), having electric billboards everywhere, putting everything in plastic bottles, etc.
I'm very worried for the future.
...
Sorry about that... I just had to get that off my chest.

I've got to say I disagree with you there, Khris.

First of all, the graph shows infections, not deaths, so the "triangle of death" label is rather misleading. Nor is it a given that the curve would follow a linear trend to zero. An exponential effect, gradually flattening to reach some stable level, seems more plausible in the case of non-intervention, all things being equal. Nevertheless, it is no doubt true that lifting the mask mandate leads to more infected people, and that a few of those people die.

However…

The virus has become endemic: we will never get rid of it. In particular, the Omicron variant was so virulent that it could not be contained by any reasonable measures, they would just slow down the spread ("flatten the curve," remember that?). So there will never be a point where we can lift mask mandates and other restrictions because we have "beaten the virus."

This leaves us with a choice: adopt mask mandates and other restrictions permanently, or say that we have done all we can: we have vaccines, we have a milder version of the virus, and it no longer threatens to overwhelm our healthcare system. Therefore, now is as good a time as any to end the restrictions. A stable rate of infections may in fact be preferable, because it provides a degree of herd immunity that means sudden spikes and outbreaks of new variants will hopefully be less dramatic. (Dropping the mandate also makes it possible to re-impose it if it should become necessary, while the alternative is probably increasing non-compliance that makes it unavailable for future use.)

Early on, idiots were saying that COVID-19 was no worse than the flu, and citing numbers that ignored (a) that the pandemic was just getting started, and (b) that those were the number of people dying even given the lockdowns and social distancing. But those objections are no longer the case, and now it can be fairly said that as long as people get vaccinated, COVID is comparable to the flu. Yes, some people will die of it, but it's no longer one of the great problems facing our society.

Of course, this doesn't mean that the precautions we learned during the pandemic should not be practiced, particularly isolation for people who are sick.

I don't know how other countries are, but if everyone is vaccinated, then it's as good time as any to lift the mask mandates, but it should be alright too to wear one if you want, some public spaces are really constrained and a good pff2 mask is pretty useful in those - mainly in transportation.

I don't think herd immunity is a thing though with this disease in particular since it seems people can get reinfected, better to just at least yearly reapply the vaccines and go on.

I like the new remote work opportunities that appeared though, I think this allows some people at least to be able to move around more freely and not necessarily live in the big centers.

Japan have pretty much lifted all restrictions. Numbers were starting to come down but have recently begun to stabilize, much like in Khris’s graph.

The difference is that in Japan people are still wearing masks in pretty much every situation except for in their homes and in bars/restaurants (even then masks are worn until to get to the table and start eating/drinking).

The other difference is (I’ve said this before but it bears repeating): there NEVER was a mask mandate in Japan. People just did. And still do. My only worry is that I can foresee Japanese people simple adopting the mask as standard and that means people with a bit more common sense will never again be able to take their masks off in public without being made to feel ashamed about it.

One of my observations earlier in this thread was about people wearing masks even when they were walking alone in a non-crowded open space, and how ridiculous that seemed to me (I will often pull my mask off when I’m not near people because frankly cars and hedges can’t catch covid-19. But even now, even after the rest of the world has made mask-wearing a LEGAL requirement, and then lifted those requirements, I’m still seeing practically everyone, no matter how much personal space and fresh air they have around them, wearing a mask.

Nobody wants to be the first to take it off and admit they don’t always need it.

This is a common thing in Japan. You may have heard that people here will always wait for the green man at a pedestrian crossing, even when it is clearly safe to cross. Maybe this is to be admired, but here’s an interesting observation.

Whenever you have a group of people at a crossing. The man is red, but there are no cars coming, it’s a narrow road and everybody knows they could all cross and no one is going to even see a car, let alone get hit by one. But… *IF* one person does break the rule and start crossing, then others will usually follow. Like the just needed permission from the strangers around them that they’re not going to be judged badly for breaking this rule.

I think it’s the same with masks. People are just waiting to see when other people around them stop wearing masks… but nobody wants to be first. And it doesn’t count if I do it because I’m a foreigner. If I break a social rule (or pedestrian code) then that’s because I’m a stupid gaijin.

Sorry for the rant, but I’m basically going to be stuck wearing masks forever unless I move my family out of this country, so it’s kind of a pain in the arse.

Quote from: eri0o on Wed 13/04/2022 00:49:09
I don't think herd immunity is a thing though with this disease in particular since it seems people can get reinfected, better to just at least yearly reapply the vaccines and go on.

Apparently epidemiologists dislike the term "herd immunity," but it was just shorthand for the documented fact that having had COVID does give you a degree of resistance to reinfection (though not 100%) at least in the near term, and this in turn makes it harder for the virus to spread in a population that has previously been exposed. It absolutely doesn't mean people shouldn't be vaccinated and boosted regularly, especially as the resistance appears to be cumulative.

This also reminds me that it's probably time for some of my family members to get another booster.

Yeah, I was exaggerating a bit to illustrate my point.

Here's an update:
(https://i.imgur.com/ZKlJlPo.png)

You can clearly see the plateau right after the mask mandate was dropped, but the numbers are going down so all is fine I guess. Except for the 10% to 15% percent who will be permanently or at least long-time affected by long covid.

Not wearing a mask in a crowded indoor space is idiotic to me no matter how tired we all are or how "mild" the infection is going to be. People are still wearing helmets on construction sites afaik, we didn't drop this because only some die, right? To quote the first search result, "3.5 out of every 100,000 construction workers will die every year. In 2019, the United States saw 5,333 deaths". That's much lower than covid, but let's all just stop wearing masks while grocery shopping, right?
Masks are extremely cheap and very effective. So why do we get rid of them? Because it reminds the people that the pandemic is real. And some just can't deal with that.

Well, the Corona finally got me (presumably Omicron BA.2). I'm on day 3 after positive test now, and feeling generally shitty but not more so than for a flu. Wish I could have gotten a fourth booster dose beforehand, but I suppose this will boost my resistance for the rest of the year.

Ahh damn. Unlucky, man. Hope you get well quickly.

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 16/06/2022 14:01:18
Well, the Corona finally got me (presumably Omicron BA.2).

Hey, you held it off for an admirable length of time. I was a dosed-up, masked-up, gel-covered, social-distancing freak, and I still got Omicron as soon as it started becoming the dominant strain.

Get well soon. :)

It inevitably gets us all. I'm glad it hasn't hit you as hard as it's hit some people.
Get well soon.

Get well soon, Snarky! I'm not sure a booster would have helped - current vaccines don't seem to be very effective against Omicron anyway (I will only get my booster once the new vacs are there). At least, now you got your Omicron update.

We got it back in feb. Good luck and get well soon!