Adventure Game Studio

This is a plea to those who refer to CJ as Jesus, or Christ, or Christ Jesus, or the like.


Although this may be intended as a joke, it is not funny, but is, in fact, hurtful, and even harmful. Harmful to your own souls and to those who may read it. So I simply ask,

Can it please not be done anymore?


With Love,

WanderLady

could you not just keep your beliefs to yourself instead of trying to force them on everyone?
and how is it harmful to our souls?
see, this is one of the many hundreds of thousands and potentially millions of reasons i hate religion, and if CJ changed his name to jesus then he technically would be jesus, and in many religions there is no jesus and many gods, so just let people say what they want.
besides, do you actually have any proof that CJ isn't jesus? i mean, second coming and all that, hell, i could be jesus!

it's a simple plea and i hope people will respect it but it's also i believe too much to ask

it's all fine and good for you to ask and i'm not saying there's anything wrong with it

it's all fine and good for you not to like it and it's all fine and good for you not to partake in it but asking others to stop is too much, in my opinion

now i hope other people who post will be polite and not big jerks or i'll be forced to delete posts or lock this. not because i disagree with what wanderlady posted but because i don't want people being jerks

eric

Eric is right on the money.  I respect that it may not align with your beliefs but it's not really reasonable to expect others to stop either.

I'm sorry, but you seem to have misread some things. We do not refer to CJ as christ jesus, jesus, or christ.

He is Chris(t) Jones, and we see him as a being akin to Jesus, the sign of the second coming, if not the second coming itself. The link is obvious, given the similarities in the initials. CJ conducts his behavior in a manner Jesus would have, showing others love, kindness, and wisdom. He is generous, and encourages generosity from his followers. Surely, if that isn't Chris(t)-like behavior, I don't know what is.

I'm afraid I must also scold you for ignorantly belittling our faith. You would not have us call your mighty god false, and beg you to stop steering us to him. Those who follow Chris(t) Jones' example ultimately lead better, happy, more fulfilling lives than those who attend church and pray to Jesus. We learn to sharpen our minds through coding, and express ourselves through pixel art. We learn to show our souls to others, sharing our essence. This brings about peace and happiness, a feeling more profound than any currently established religion has inspired.

I think perhaps, instead of being afraid of the healing wisdom of Chris(t) Jones, you should embrace it. Surely it will lead to more security and happiness than you fell now. You are obviously very troubled. You must have very little faith in yourself, if you carry so little faith in your brothers.

Wanderlady,

I can see your point - to a certain degree. I think everybody is entitled to their own beliefs/religion. And I think you should always respect other peoples' convictions.
So if you had stated that (in jest) referring to CJ as Jesus, Christ, Mohammed or whatever would be harmful or hurtful to YOU I would have had no problems with your post. But you're suggesting that it's bad for everybody.
That's nonsense and presumptious - I've laughed at these jokes, and laughing is good for me.
As Boyd so "directly" put it: apply your religious guidelines to your own life, don't force them upon others. In return people will respect your convictions - I'm sure.  

Well, personally I don't really care much about this kind of things, I have no religious belief, and all I know is that people would know it is a joke if it is a joke, even religious people can have a good laugh, as these are nothing so serious, as long as they are faithful to their believes in their own hearts.

Note that there are many different regilions out there, and often times a joke may or may not be connected to one's belief, but I'll say that at least some of the people won't be annoyed, in that case why don't everyone view it open minded? Personally I think criticizing other non-believers of insulting one's own belief may not be a good thing, as the one who made the jokes may not really mean harm, only when someone got sensitive would make the condition worse, and turn potentially funny stuffs into overly serious debates. (I won't disagree that sometimes there are jokes which are too much over the limit, though.)

But it did strike me in my head whether CJ is Jesus, so I asked our most intelligent electronic tutor for it:

Quote
***Transcript of 11/12/2003... starting at 16:45
***Talking to: Gilbert
DAISY> fly!  
GILBERT> is cj short for christ jesus?
DAISY> is cj short for christ jesus?
GILBERT> i asked you.
DAISY> is cj short for christ jesus?
GILBERT> answer me.
DAISY> i don't know, so i asked you.
GILBERT> i don't know, but cj is saviour to us like jesus is saviour to those religious people.
DAISY> come on, i think you don't know, but cj is saviour to go today?
GILBERT> today? always! cj was saviour yesterday, is saviour today and will be saviour t0m0rr0w!
DAISY> i watch tv, but only when in rome, do you want a good mood.
GILBERT> don't change the topic.
DAISY> i am always making sense.
GILBERT> so, back to topic, is cj jesus?
DAISY> is cj short form of adventure game studio.
GILBERT> maybe, but what about jesus?
DAISY> corn job is cj short for words.
GILBERT> ah thanks, i have an answer now, corn job is jesus!
DAISY> yes, give me to have an answer now, corn dog.
GILBERT> corn dog! xaxaxaxa
DAISY> you have all i want is actually a corn dog.
GILBERT> yeah! mystery solved. now i can sleep.

Don't take it serious, it's just intended to be funny.

Well Wanderlady, I agree with you here. I don't really like people joking around with stuff about Jesus and that. It's not so bad if it is only minor and not very serious. Sure we can all have a joke sometimes... Lets just not go too overboard. I don't think the guys on here are too bad.

And BOYD, I don't like religion either, but I'm a christian... How can this be... Well Christianity isn't all rules and regulations and stuff, which is what religion is. Btw, I don't think we need a big religious arguement here, its been done before, and it doesn't really get anywhere.

Well, considering that the most probably name of Jesus was problably Emmanuel, being Jeoshua Christ just a "nickname", I can't see the harm of telling CJ JC.

In fact, it's been allways very confusing for me that Christ was crossified, while the Jewish punishment was the stone throwing. That makes me feel that Jesus was actually the leader of a a revolutionary movement, reason why he was killed by romans, and all the Sanhedrin stuff was invented  by Saint Paul for making the new religion more suitable for Romans standarts. The scrolls of the Dead Sea make me being more secure of what I say.

So... Can someone be hurt because we say CJ, JC; the nickname of a revolutionary who died 2000 years ago by his terrorist acts, and who became famous in a decandent Empire by the words of a lier like Saint Paul? Me not.

Another thing is that you believe that we're being offensive to everything "good" that that sorf of lies have became today. But we're not attacking the filosophy, we just feel suitable to make jokes about JC because the Byble story is IMHO ridiculous, full of incongruences, not only in the "supernatural aspects", but also about historycal matters.

Edit: Fixed broken characters.

Quote from: Farlander on Wed 12/11/2003 09:40:34
Well, considering that the most probably name of Jesus was problably Emmanuel, being Jeoshua Christ just a "nickname", I can´t see the harm of telling CJ JC.

In fact, it´s been allways very confusing for me that Christ was crossified, while the Jewish punishment was the stone throwing. That makes me feel that Jesus was actually the leader of a a revolutionary movement, reason why he was killed by romans, and all the Sanhedrín stuff was invented  by Saint Paul for making the new religion more suitable for Romans standarts. The scrolls of the Dead Sea make me being more secure of what I say.

So... Can someone be hurt because we say CJ, JC; the nickname of a revolutionary who died 2000 years ago by his terrorist acts, and who became famous in a decandent Empire by the words of a lier like Saint Paul? Me not.

Another thing is that you believe that we´re being offensive to everything "good" that that sorf of lies have became today. But we´re not attacking the filosophy, we just feel suitable to make jokes about JC because the Byble story is IMHO ridiculous, full of incongruences, not only in the "supernatural aspects", but also about historycal matters.

*remixor runs to escape the enormous post avalance that will inevitably occur due to Farlander*

historically, the bible is correct farlander, no historian denies the existance or crusifiction of JC, but lets not get into that... (although I'm sure we will)

I don't think blaspheme really applies to non-christians, cause they're all going to hell anyways, and I don't think god would really get that upset about the whole CJ is JC thing anyway, as it's all in jest...
You really shouldnt be offended by people saying it though Wanderlady.  You should be strong enough in your faith that you won't feel compromised by what others say...

anywhoo, I'm going back under my rock...

Quote from: Duzz on Wed 12/11/2003 10:01:13
I don't think blaspheme really applies to non-christians, cause they're all going to hell anyways...

Wait... how can non-christians be sent to somewhere they don't beleive in?

well, assuming hell and god exist (which i was)... (pretty big assumption i know  ;D)

Whose this jesus guy you guys are going on about?

Jesus Chavez. Works at Taco Bell cleaning tables for $4.50 an hour.

At my local Jack in the Box, there is a Jesus who works behind the counter.  There's also a guy who has two tags that he wears on a rotating basis.  One says "Super Hernando" and the other says "Hernando the Great."  Also at that Jack in the Box there's a guy named Steven Seagal.  It is thte best restaurant in the world.

Actually there are many similarities between CJ and Christ that simply cannot be ignored. Namely:

1. They are both hot!!!!
2. They are both great lovers!!!!

I hope this helps resolve any issues you may have.

I don't know what all the fuss is about. CJ is obviously Quetzalcoatl: hence the "Aztec Man's friend" subtitle.

He also has an avatar, which makes him Vishnu...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/FX230FWNFG8S/qid=1068639560/sr=5-3/ref=sr_5_3/103-4498785-6054249

Amazon ListMania!, which lists many books that argue against Christianity and other religions. I've always wanted to read #5 on that list.

I'm pretty sure Jesus himself wouldn't mind people joking like that, since I've heard he was a very tolerable and open-minded person, not quick to make judgement.

Additionally, this forum is pretty non-conformist, and there'd be heck of a lot of things we couldn't say and do if we had to pay
respect to all differents religions out there.

I don't think Wanderlady has a point at all, and if people want to make that kind of warm-hearted well meant jokes I'd say let them.

I think the moral of this story is:

If someone offends your religion, keep quiet about it because if you complain, you'll be battered to a pulp by people defending freedom of speech.

Well, for right or wrong, I think SSH has definitely described the nature of this forum.  It may be wise to take his advice whether you agree with it or not.

I think that's a bit harsh. If people would post things like "Jesus sucks" or stuff like that, I'd be among the first to tell that person off, and referring to freedom of speech would not help.

My point is that we must try to be open-minded when it comes to whether we actually should be offended.

That, plus what I said in my previous post.

Whether I believe in Jesus or not (The pissed cunt [actually that be me]) he/she is trhem self and not CJ obviously, so hey jebus, how come you haven't frequented the forums lately??????????

As soon as Dmitri stopped posting, so did you, where art thou

Wel,, Wanderlady politely asked people not to offend him by saying things which he found blasphemous. His request had pretty much the opposite effect to which he desired. Some people replied saying "Well, I don't follow  a religion, but I don't think it's offensive", some said "I hate religion" or "here's a list of books that rubbish your faith" and others probably said things far more blasphemous than the original complaint.

So, based on the evidence, the moral of the story is:

If someone offends your religion, keep quiet about it because if you complain, you'll be battered to a pulp by people

OK, maybe they weren't defending freedom of speech, although plenty said "you have no right to force your beliefs on me". I don't see how someone saying

Quote
Can it please not be done anymore?

is forcing anything.

However, as Andail said, maybe WanderLady is being over-sensitive. Now, myself I am a Christian and I used to get upset about these things. However, I discovered at my own cost when a teenager that complaining about this simply makes people think that you're an idiot. I'd rather keep that secret! It certainly never achieves any reduction in blasphemy and it puts people off Christianity as it makes Christians seem prudish and killjoys. I try to avoid judging people's actions because I can't presume to speak for God.

So, in summary, those who have ranted bitterly about forcing beliefs are hypocritical, and those who get offended are counter-productive. I, on the othr hand, am perfect.
:P

EDIT: And Timosity is so drunk that he make less sence than usual  :-*

Now THIS post by SSH is one I can actually acree with, in addition to simply thinking makes sense.

Quote from: SSH on Wed 12/11/2003 14:41:39
I, on the othr hand, am perfect.

Quote from: remixor on Wed 12/11/2003 14:47:06
Now THIS post by SSH is one I can actually acree with, in addition to simply thinking makes sense.

At last, someone recognises it  ;D

Quote from: SSH on Wed 12/11/2003 14:50:07

Quote from: SSH on Wed 12/11/2003 14:41:39
I, on the othr hand, am a conceited arse.

Quote from: remixor on Wed 12/11/2003 14:47:06
Now THIS post by SSH is one I can actually acree with, in addition to simply thinking makes sense.

At last, someone recognises it  ;D

What, you mean the stuff you quoted?  Of course, it's totally obvious. ;)

Yes he IS!!!! ( tries to piss ppl off )

We have the right to joke about religion... WanderLady has as much right to ask us to stop. Freedom of speech doesn't mean you should never accept responsibility for what you say and who it offends.

Quote from: WanderLady on Wed 12/11/2003 08:24:25
Harmful to your own souls and to those who may read it. So I simply ask,

I'm not trying to take the piss or anything but if this is true why do people keep telling me God is benevolent, forgiving and loves everyone?

Surely "The Powers That Be" have a sense of humour or it wouldn't exist?

Wanderlady, I appreciate what you are asking but, I'm sure you understand it won't really happen. Perhaps your plea was a way of venting frustration. I think all of the replies have conveyed the general idea that we do not intend to hurt you or your religion with these statements. If it does hurt you personally, then we are all good, kind, and loving folk who do not want to hurt you. You should know that some of us, if not all, are sorry that we hurt another human beings feelings. I hope you can see that these comments are our attempts at humor and not to hurt you though. If not then I believe you need to rethink the situation.

Another thing I must point out: I believe you are failing to see a positive point to the situation. We are not trying to insult CJ. We love CJ and appreciate what he has given us. In our mass appreciation we jokingly equate him not to Allah, Jehova, Vishnu, but to YOUR savior, Jesus! We, a WORLD community recognize your religion first. I believe you should reevaluate your faith and how you view the world as a whole. For you to not see this positive point may in fact put your own faith, and more importantly the practice of, into question.

If my post offends you, I apologize, it is not the intention of it. It is simply my intention to encourage you to see the positive in life and not the negative.

I believe that GOD is a loving entity. Non-believers, non-christians, and blasphemers alike may enjoy their place at his side if inside they are truly good souls. If you believe otherwise, perhaps you should ask whether or not your soul is worthy to sit next to him?

EDIT:

Bruised: LOL! I love you.

later,
-junc

EDIT:

I don't know if anyone read my post before I edited it... I lost my temper.  I hate religion and I hate it when people preach.  But my post was out of line, and maybe a little dramatic.  So pardon me while I step out side for a smoke.

juncmodule, I think you didn't read all the posts if you're saying that "the general idea that we do not intend to hurt you or your religion with these statements". Boyd, Bodyart, Terran and some others are obviously trying to do just that.

I totally agree with Peaceman, with all due respect to WanderLady. I think it's indeed fair for her to ask us not to do something that she finds offending. However, in this case, I think it's not so much of an offense than it might seem - it's just a joke. No one really thinks CJ is Jesus Christ. It's just a funny (in my opinion) coincidence - nothing more.

I don't think that is blasphemous. I mean, playing around with practically meaningless words and letters. Blasphemous would be assuming that God isn't intelligent enough to see we're only joking. Or something.

I think it's all good as long as they remain innocent like they have been so far.

Bodyart, how about being a bit more subtle?

Growing out of this burning desire to be controversial can sometimes take long.
But it's a normal stage of becoming an adult.
Once people do, they usually realize that it wasn't any wiser than blindly following the preachers.

Edit: this is about Bodyart etc., not Pessi. Pessi was a responsible adult the day he was born. "Good morning, doctor. Good morning, nurse. I hope I haven't caused you much trouble?"

I can stand a little religious element in a few members...
Bodyart, that's just blatant flamewar provocation. This is CJ's forum, so in the end it's his call, and he's never supported personal attacks like that.
Non-Christians should be as tolerant as they wish Christians would be. If you think WanderLady is annoying, look up Fred Phelps.

Seriously... I apologize for my post from before.

I'm not going to say anymore about this topic or religion, or anything...  I don't want to piss anyone off.  I'm just going to keep to myself like I usually do, and go and finish my cigarette.  

EDIT:
I wasn't trying to start a flamewar... just voicing my opinion like I always do.

Quote from: Pessi on Wed 12/11/2003 17:05:08
I don't think that is blasphemous. I mean, playing around with practically meaningless words and letters. Blasphemous would be assuming that God isn't intelligent enough to see we're only joking. Or something.

I know what you mean, Pessi, but on the other hand:

http://www.biblegateway.org/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=NIV&passage=Exodus+20%3A7

The problem, as I see it, is that people, still remembering crusades, witchhunts and what not, think that when attacking religion they oppose a cruel giant and defend right of speech of poor heretics, who burn on stakes.

The truth is, a religious person is a weaker person in modern society. Their beliefs are childishly easy to ridicule, because they're not based on material science - which is the basis of modern thinking. Their conduct is childishly easy to ridicule, because they try to follow some set rules, which are very unfashionable.

When attacking a religious person, you're not a hero. You're doing something which is one of the easiest things in the world. And you're certainly not defending anyone; rational et materialistic ideology does not need an advocate, it being what the world is set on these days.

QuoteBoyd, Bodyart, Terran and some others are obviously trying to do just that

Yeah, sorry, that was worded poorly. I only meant that MORE people were not trying to hurt her feelings, yet still disagreeing with her. I think a majority(? or at least the posts that stand out) of the people that posted were responding in a civil manner.

I just kind of try to ignore the CRAP posts.

EDIT: I just went back through and checked, of the 40 something posts so far only 4 or 5 are insensitive.

later,
-junc

Quote from: Goldmund on Wed 12/11/2003 17:24:45
When attacking a religious person, you're not a hero. You're doing something which is one of the easiest things in the world. And you're certainly not defending anyone; rational et materialistic ideology does not need an advocate, it being what the world is set on these days.

Except in the US, in which parts have laws against teaching Evolution (or at least strongly worded policy leading to firings), where the constitution is still under a very Christian God, where their motto is "in God we trust" and where most political leaders are dogmatic Christians who only rarely mascurade as open pan-theists.  Seeing how many people here come from the US, where bashing religion is sometimes actually dangerous (considering the rise of anti-abortion terrorists leading to over 80% abortion unavaibility, the fact that Bush regularly sites God in his speeches, the Ten commandments can now legally be put up by the administration in schools (but not communist literature, of course), where being gay is a crime in numerous states, etc), it isn't necessarily easy.

On the other hand, bashing religion light-heartedly is pretty easy on the anonymous net, which is probably why so many Americans vent anti-religious hostility here.  No-one wants to be murdered like gay people or shot at like abortionists, but here, with so many outsiders, people can laugh and join in, relatively safely.

Bspeers: I was unaware of that, in this case you might imagine you're fighting with an opression of some sort... still, even if this is the case in America, I believe my point stands where it comes to personal contacts.
In most european countries it's hard to be a religious person at the age of 18 and not be ridiculed by the majority of peers. And as this blind anger at mobs still burns in me, I tend to take side of the ridiculed minority, even though I'm not religious.

Quote from: bspeers1000 on Wed 12/11/2003 17:40:31
the Ten commandments can now legally be put up by the administration in schools

So why is some judge in the news today on trial for having the ten commandments in his court?

You are God, aren't you Wonderlady?

YES, I AM GOD

Cool! I knew it!  8)

** Edit **
I ran a check of our beloved CJ, and found out that he's a Pumaman now. I think that's a word for God... Oh my God! He has been upgraded!!!!! Holy Shit!

While we are at it, please do not refer to him as Moses, Abraham, Isaac and David either.
;)

Quote from: Duzz on Wed 12/11/2003 10:01:13
historically, the bible is correct farlander, no historian denies the existance or crusifiction of JC, but lets not get into that... (although I'm sure we will)

I don't think blaspheme really applies to non-christians, cause they're all going to hell anyways, and I don't think god would really get that upset about the whole CJ is JC thing anyway, as it's all in jest...
You really shouldnt be offended by people saying it though Wanderlady.  You should be strong enough in your faith that you won't feel compromised by what others say...

anywhoo, I'm going back under my rock...

I said: Cusification is a ROMAN punishement, for crimes against Rome, while the crimes against the Sanhedrin, the Jewish Church, should have been punished with lapidation. I've said that the historycal clues aim that Christ was a revolutionary. I haven't said nothing about he not being real.

[Edit: Fixed broken characters]

Religion is always a touchy subject, and if somebody says something truly offensive about your beliefs, you have every right to complain.

However, the "CJ/JC" joke is a bit of harmless fun, and really shouldn't offend anybody. I would agree that everybody should be more open minded and see that not everybody has the same beliefs.

What is and isn't offensive is of course a subjective thing, and varies from person to person. However, I'd highly recommend watching the first South Park Mr Hanky episode which deals nicely with just this question.

Holy crap, it's jesus!!!

EDIT: CJ, does this mean our child is celestial?

You just behaved like a rude simpleton, Yufster.

I resent you making fun of my lack of intelligence.

I must say - even though wisdom is wisdom and right is right at any age or sex - that I'm 23 and male, because references were made in some posts.  

Some answered with thoughtful posts, and I will endeavor to do so, also. With so many, forgive me if I respond in order.

eric: I understood that this would be so(-too much-), but hoped for a surprise where few are given. I am thankful this wasn't locked before some responses were made.

miez:Perhaps you could tell me where in my post that I forced anything on anyone. I did not say, "I believe in Jesus, so don't use his name." I asked - to all - if it would stop. **About being harmful, poseted below.**

Gilbot: As you have no belief, why post?

Duzz: Strength in faith....the strength in faith is that I actually posted knowing the opposition here, and it has been shown that the offence has been taken by my post.

SSH: Aren't those that are hypocritical the ones that are counter-productive?

Trapezoid: There is wisdom in your small post. But the question I pose to you is: Are you the joker, or the stopper?

Peaceman/miez: Those that tell you God is loving and forgiving are telling you the truth.
There are some things that one inherently knows as wrong. But because of one's professed 'openness', one is no longer able to discern that which is right and that which is wrong. This is harmful to one's soul, and to a lesser degree, one's body, mind, heart.

Bodyart: In a way, I would have liked to have read what you originally wrote, but I am glad you had second thoughts. If there is any surprise here, it is your apologizing. THAT is courageous.

Pessi: Is God's name to be joked with?

Goldmund: Your post, like Trapezoid's, has wisdom within as some of your words coincide with the Word of God. So I ask you the same question: Are you the joker or the stopper? You have taken a side, but for what purpose?

CJ: Your words bring to mind a quote as it has a semblance of wisdom, but it is not from the bible. It's from a well-known movie, said by a well-known actor.
The last line spoken by Al Pacino in 'Devil's Advocate':
(paraphrased) "Vanity...definitely my favorite sin."
A part of me actually thought that you would post in agreement, and the same part still believes you could, but....


Many posted about respect(of beliefs) and openness, but are you really either of those? Now that I seemingly stand alone on this topic, will you give me(and probably others) the respect spoken of by not posting the reference, or will you continue on hypocritically? I asked a question and only one seemed to give an answer, and even that was in jest. But like I said, it's what I expected when I started the topic, but not that which I hoped.


With Love,
WanderLady

Quote from: WanderLady on Wed 12/11/2003 22:14:34
Many posted about respect(of beliefs) and openness, but are you really either of those? Now that I seemingly stand alone on this topic, will you give me(and probably others) the respect spoken of by not posting the reference, or will you continue on hypocritically?

I don't believe there is any hypocricy in respecting  your opinion while continuing to exercise my own judgement.  

This thread is generally very mature. I'm rather wowed. Let me say: hurrah to everyone.

I'm glad that the off-the-cuff and rather easy reply of, "I have free speech NOW SHUTUP," has been mostly avoided.

Wanderlady: you've asked nicely, and please, please don't try to press the issue. You can give your fellow man the opportunity to make your life nicer. You're probably not going to be able to convince anyone who doesn't already take Jesus' name as something carrying a lot of weight. Religious/Philosophical debate simply doesn't do well (usually) on messageboards. Except when Helm and I went straight from debate into working on Crown of Gold. That was fun. Well, I guess that's all. Remember to be loving.

(http://store2.yimg.com/I/jsbstash_1754_954136)

I think WanderLady has a fair point, she did ask kindly. I'm sure that if someone were to jokingly call Cj (or another forum member) "nigga" [in the 'sup nigga'] constantly, or refer to him in this way I'm sure someone would possibly find it offensive, and I think that because it's a racial matter people would stop right away.

I don't understand why people don't judge religion in the same way. Religion is something that is fluent throughout the world and even if you don't believe in it, you have to accept its existence, and really I believe you shouldn't discriminate against it. If someone had a fairly resemblant name of the word (and I hate to be racist again) "Nigger", would you start calling him it? Probably not because you're well aware that you would offend a lot of people and racism isn't tolerated (especially not on the forums) and so why should something that affects someones beliefs be any more tolerable?

I'm not particularly religious but I'd be happy to stop calling him Jesus Chris or Christ Jones or what not if someone or some people find it offensive.

I agree that really an online forum isn't the best place to air your beliefs in the same way you wouldn't come online and say you're a pedophile or that you've recently come out of prison for murder or what not. BUT, as WanderLady is here and is being subjected to it - I think we should try and do as she asks.

If that didn't make any sense, it's because I don't know what I'm talking about.

:p
m0ds

I think its a bad thing when people have a knee-jerk reaction to any words.  It is said that racism is a learned/taught trait.  I think the same could be said for finding things offensive.  I think one makes a choice to be offended by something and I make the choice not to because I think productive comes out of it.

Mods, you seem to think it is racist to use the word "Nigger" in your post.  But the context was nothing of the sort.  

Context is important and the context of this "CJ as Christ" topic is a joke.

wanderlady...

Pessi: Is God's name to be joked with?

what if he doesn't believe in god? shouldn't you take that into question before asking the entire community to stop something that maybe no one else sees as insulting?

i understand that a hardcore belief in god requires one to be a bit myopic to others [i'm not trying to be insulting it's true, it's probably extremely hard to be a hardcore religious person and still be able to fathom someone just not believing in god, it's like someone telling my that there's no such thing as gravity] but again if you're going to choose to be a member of an online community, or any community, that involves a large mixed group of races, religions, beliefs, hair styles, you have to understand that not everyone is going to agree with you and a response to Pessi like the one you gave does not take that into account.

Quote from: WanderLady on Wed 12/11/2003 22:14:34
Bodyart: In a way, I would have liked to have read what you originally wrote, but I am glad you had second thoughts. If there is any surprise here, it is your apologizing. THAT is courageous.

Honestly, you wouldn't have wanted to read it... I made some pretty harsh statements about you, your religion, and religion in general.  After I posted it, I re-read it and realized that it's not my place to judge you just because of who you are or what church you follow.  I just kind of snapped because I am probably the least pious person you'll ever meet... I'm just an angry guy who sees no reason to beleive in any type of god or diety and think is stupid to do so... but I'm not going to rub this all in your face.  As long as you (and the rest of the forum) accept my apology, I've got nothing more to say about this topic.

m0ds: A very mature post. Thank you for the respect it gives. It, also, was a surprise.

Bodyart: Though angry you may be, your apologetic words lead me to believe that goodness dwells in you.

Talk is cheap. Free speech isn't.

okay I never post in topics about religion as a rule but i have something i need to say.

first off... WanderLady I now have great respect for you for standing up for something you believe. And to keep things happy around here i will not refer to CJ as JC.

But for the most part my reply is to the replys.
I understand that you guys have rights to say whatever the fuck you want to, but so does wanderlady. So first of all please dont be hippocritical and think that the rights of your own are stronger then the rights of Wanderlady's.

Second of all lets not get mad at someone for posting their views on a subject and asking people to be sensative to it....  I mean after all these forums for the most part are a comfortably accepting place and if somthing we do is makeing a member uncomfortable that reflects on us all.
Plus it takes alot of guts to ask what wander did because lets face it we all have a little asshole in us.

in the end i think the purpose of this post was to say if you demand that people respect your rights you better respect theirs.

I think cpage just about summed it all up.

Well, I was never into that CJ/JC thing, anyways. I wasn't really offended by it -- I merely shrugged it off.

Saying 'God' or synonyms is not bad. It's the attitude behind it.

Gilbot: As you have no belief, why post?


Why did you post because you have a belief?  This isn't a religion-based forum, and everyone is free to post.  When you posted a question, you left it there for anyone to answer as they pleased, because you were asking everyone to respect your belief.  I would think this is more relevant to atheists (because they are most likely to offend) than people who are religious. In fact, tons of christians adamantly tell me that atheism is a religion, because even though it doesn't have a god, it does rely heavily on some unproven concepts to disprove christianity. I think this is nonsense.. but whatever.

As an atheist, I see just as much ridicule and offence from the christian community, probably more than is given to them.  How often do you see someone on the corner screaming, "You're god is a farse! Give up your foolish beliefs!" As compared to people on the corner holding up biblical verses and screaming, "Gays are going to hell! Atheists must repent before the almighty lord! Turn to the lord and your sins will be forgiven!" Maybe it's just because I live in the bible belt. This bothers me for a lot of reasons:

1. Because I'm not now, nor am I ever going to be religious, for many reasons.
2. Because I've heard it all before.
3. Because it's annoying, I've heard it all before hundreds of times, in fact.

Fact is, they aren't going to stop. It's their belief that it's their mission from god to save souls. My mission is to have fun with life, and jokes are a big part of that. I'm not going to stop either.

Just learn to ignore it, I really don't believe that it offends you enough to merit an entire community of so many people to watch everything they say, for fear of it being blasphemous of a religion a lot of people don't care about. Your time would be better spend in the swingers chat at Yahoo, now those people need to change their ways.

And Chris isn't vain, he's defending our right to say what we want. At most, this is only mildly offensive. I've seen (and said) much worse.

EDIT:
Religion is Belief, not necessarily something that cannot be proven, to clarify.
I give up, this isn't going to go anywhere. I just wish people could go through life without being offended at every little thing.

Quote from: shbazjinkens on Thu 13/11/2003 01:21:27
In fact, tons of christians adamantly tell me that atheism is a religion, because even though it doesn't have a god, it does rely heavily on some unproven concepts to disprove christianity.

Is this what makes something a religion:  Believing what can not be proven?

shbazjinkens: You are right. In my zeal, I made a mistake in saying that to Gilbert.  

I'm sorry, Gilbert.

But as a furthur response, I did not ask anyone to believe in Jesus. I did not question anyone else's beliefs. I simply asked if it would not be done anymore.

It's nothing at all, don't mind that.

All I want to say is "get over it", jokes mean harm if people are sensitive (note I don't use "over-sensitive", as everyone has his/her own limits, and there sure are harsh jokes that can offend many) to it and be offended, even though it may not be teh original intention. And I think that the main purpose of most religions is to make people happy and live in harmony (sorry I make an assumption here again on something I'm not really familiar with), if someone becomes angry or sad because of his/her own belief, there may be something wrong with it. I personally don't like the fact that some people of different religious believes attacking one another just to defend for their own views, which I don't think is the original intention of any religions and I think most of the believers won't act like that, since if one thinks the religion he believes is the truth, believers of other religions have the same thought too, so they are all equal. Same applies to nonbelievers (like me), most of the time they don't believe in religions is just because they don't feel the need to, but not against the religions.

So even we have different beliefs (and values, etc., these are always different amongst persons), we are not necessarily against each other. So everyone would be happy then.

If one person makes a joke that may be connected to other religions and he doesn't really mean harm (there WERE jokes that MEAN harm), everyone should just get over it and not treat it so seriously, otherwise it would just make people unhappy and possibily filled with hatred, which I think is not the intention of religions.

I myself did sometimes make jokes on religions, some may even be quite offesive (dig up the thread of me battling Squinky!) and I'll say sorry to everybodies who might have been offended, but I hope that won't be causes of hatred and dislikeness.

Enough BS by me, get over and cheer up everybodies!

/me sacrifices a goat to CJ and prays for victory in his campaign against the mole men.

eric: what if he doesn't believe in god? shouldn't you take that into question before asking the entire community to stop something that maybe no one else sees as insulting?

I mostly responded to this already in other posts. I did take in to account the non-belief of others. But I say this to you.
One who doesn't believe may say, "I don't believe, so it's okay for me to do this." If so, then why is the reference still used in the deitical fashion?

cpage: Thank you for answering the question openly. It's appreciated.

Geoffkhan: The attitude used is one of jest for a name that requires seriousness.

Gilbert: I hoped, also, for no hatred and no dislike, but this is something I deem harmful, even if a joke.

Wanderlady, you ask the community to desist with the JC/CJ jokes.  Well, I would tell you that your blatant transgender homo-eroticism has caused me great offense for some time now.  I am not familiar with very many uses of the word, "Lady," that actually refer to a male.  The flower, "Lady Slipper," refers to the footwear of a lady.  The phrase "Lunch-Lady" refers to a lady that doles out excrement in the guise of food.  In the movie "Lady and the Tramp" the "Lady" does not refer to a human female, but at least a female.  Therefore, your blatant disregard for social decency leaves me with little or no respect for your request.  

Seriously now, if you had written a polite request then I would have been one of the first to acknowledge your offense and would've made sure I didn't commit this atrocious sin.  However, you stated that we were damaging our souls and insinuated that we would surely taste hellfire for our blasphemous statements and lack of belief.  You've stated time and time again that all you did was ask politely if we would stop.  That is not the case.  

When you first started participating in the forums, there were "Jesus this" and "Jesus that" statements in every message you posted.  When that started slacking off a bit, I believe that the community as a whole began to respect you.  I, personally, come from an extremely religious background and have left the church more light-hearted than I ever felt while attending.  Some of the most devout Christians I've known have been able to enjoy a bit of "Divine" humor without bleeding their sufferage about.  You insinuate that Chris not condemning these jokes is due to his pride and his wish to be likened unto Jesus Christ, a bit harsh, I think.  You also respond by saying that we shouldn't be mocking the name of the Lord.  Which name?  Every time we say Lord (even in reference to a social status in the UK) is it blasphemy?  Since beelzebub was known as the "Lord of the flies," then was the author of that description being blasphemous?  How then, can you say our playing with such common-place words as Jesus (a fairly common name in some countries and essentially the same name as Joshua is in Hebrew).  It's just a name, like any other. The Christ part only identifies one known as a savior, and except for the Church's insistence to the contrary, could be used toward any individual that has aided the common man.  

I, for one, will respect your request (though I do not believe the aforementioned sin is mine) and refrain from likening anyone on this forum to a Christian deity.  As for other deities, I believe they're fair-game since they are typically followed by less anal-retentive members and are more supportive of the human spirit and humor than a deity who's obsessed with the judgement of all things, even an innocent joke.  

Edit: Holy $hit (I mean... Really Special $hit), I was blathering, didn't realize it'd be this long.  Ah well, the thread'll be ignored or locked soon enough anyway..

I'm going to be perfectly honest.

Wanderlady, your views on everything annoy me. Homosexuality, requirements that need to be met to get in to heaven, other religions. Probably loads more stuff. I have learned from experience to dislike people with such strong religious beliefs as yourself, that feel the need to stuff it down others throats. We never get on. That doesn't go for people with strong religious beliefs who don't stuff it down peoples throats. We do. But man, Wanderlady... we just have to stop seeing each other.

So in conclusion, I don't like you at all, and even though I never actually used the CJ JC thing.... from now on, I'm going to start. Just for you. Just because it shows disrespect for you in a special way that I never knew existed before.

I'm just being honest.

I don't really care about all this CJ/JC stuff -- I mean, my biggest contributuion to this thread was a picture of Buddy Jesus ('Nuff said, right?).

Also, I'm not a Christian -- used to be, but am not anymore.

However, I will say this: If Jesus were alive today, I'm sure he'd realise that refering to CJ as 'Jesus' or 'God' or whatever is just a joke.

I mean, Jesus loved hookers, taxmen, and even the people who crucified him -- The dude sounds pretty patient to me.

I'm sure he'd see it's all just one big elaborate joke, and understands that he's still respected by millions upon million of people.

However, to show non-discrimination for all religions, I propose we rotate Chris' deity name on a daily basis:

On Sunday: Jesus/God/Holy Spirit
On Monday: Buddha
On Tuesday: Gandhi
On Wednesday: Krishna
On Thursday: Yahweh
On Friday: Ganesha

Saturday will be our non-denominational day, to appease atheists and agnostics.


And while we're on religious matters:
(http://www.sylpher.com/DGMacphee/Photoshop/God1.jpg)

I don't think that WanderLady was rude or exactly mean in his request.  It's not like he wrote  "Now you all stop this evil before you are destroyed!!1!!1"  or anything.  

So since he is dealing with this in a mature way, maybe some of us should be a little more respectful. I agree with him, the CJ/God jokes aren't really neccesary.

QuoteAlthough this may be intended as a joke, it is not funny, but is, in fact, hurtful, and even harmful. Harmful to your own souls and to those who may read it. So I simply ask,

Can it please not be done anymore?

I think the overwhelming answer is apparenty no. While I do respect a man who'll throw in a please, to be courteous, I feel I can not comply with this request. What you are asking us to do is censorship, which I am strongly against. It would be like me requesting you not make a post of this very nature. I respect your right to give us an oppinion on a subject, just like you'll hopefully respect those and my right to make a joke.

BOYD

Quotecould you not just keep your beliefs to yourself instead of trying to force them on everyone?

Hypocritical, I need not explain further.

DUZZ

Quotehistorically, the bible is correct farlander, no historian denies the existance or crusifiction of JC, but lets not get into that... (although I'm sure we will)

I'm sure there are historians who deny the existence of Jesus as he is portrayed. But what does it matter what one man believes over another? They're either wrong or right, and unless they decide to use time travel, or in the event of the second comming, no one will ever truly know without a doubt.

SSH

QuoteI think the moral of this story is:
If someone offends your religion, keep quiet about it because if you complain, you'll be battered to a pulp by people defending freedom of speech

I don't agree. I think we've kept ourselves on a fairly mature level, most of us, and that the battering was few, and kind of worthless as most of it was hypocritical.

junc

QuoteAnother thing I must point out: I believe you are failing to see a positive point to the situation. We are not trying to insult CJ. We love CJ and appreciate what he has given us. In our mass appreciation we jokingly equate him not to Allah, Jehova, Vishnu, but to YOUR savior, Jesus! We, a WORLD community recognize your religion first. I believe you should reevaluate your faith and how you view the world as a whole. For you to not see this positive point may in fact put your own faith, and more importantly the practice of, into question.

I don't really agree with this. I, personally hold no attatchment to Jesus, love or hate. I think it's more of a matter of the fact that CJ is close to JC. If his name was Al, we might call him Allah.

m0ds

QuoteI don't understand why people don't judge religion in the same way. Religion is something that is fluent throughout the world and even if you don't believe in it, you have to accept its existence, and really I believe you shouldn't discriminate against it. If someone had a fairly resemblant name of the word (and I hate to be racist again) "Nigger", would you start calling him it? Probably not because you're well aware that you would offend a lot of people and racism isn't tolerated (especially not on the forums) and so why should something that affects someones beliefs be any more tolerable?

I think it's probably because you are born into a race, where as you hold no beliefs upon birth. Race isn't something we choose, so it can only hold that using racist comments serve no real purpose as, short of some serious operations, there is nothing to be done about it. Wheras religion is up to a person, and as that is the case, one can't live their life in fear of what people might react to a light-hearted joke, not meant to be offensive. I feel if one means to be offensive, one shouldn't have a right to their oppinion.

Yufster

QuoteSo in conclusion, I don't like you at all, and even though I never actually used the CJ JC thing.... from now on, I'm going to start. Just for you. Just because it shows disrespect for you in a special way that I never knew existed before.

I don't agree with this practice at all. Wanderlady has not viciously or purposefully intended to hurt your feelings, why should you attack him in such a way? I, personally, will at least think about a post next time I decide to make a JC post, because of Wanderlady. I do not wish to hurt anyone who has only expressed a view.

QuoteHowever, I will say this: If Jesus were alive today, I'm sure he'd realise that refering to CJ as 'Jesus' or 'God' or whatever is just a joke.

I completly agree with this. I think that most religions don't give their creator(s) enough credit.

I do not intend to stop CJ JC jokes, but I do wish you to know Wanderlady, that if I do make a joke, I do so without meaning to hurt your oppinions/beliefs in anyway. I don't do them often, though, so I'm not really too worried about it. And warning to the wise, this is a fairly long post.

-MillsJROSS

yufster stop acting like a 5 year old please, thank you

This is a very difficult one to call. I think you have to bear in mind that because of Christianity's dominance in the Western world, Jesus tends to be used as a reference point for a religious icon rather than any other god - this is not out of particular disrespect for your religion, rather the opposite.

Many people use "Jesus Christ!" and "Oh my God!" as expressions of shock, which you presumably also find offensive. However, they have been used for so long now that they have pretty much been absorbed into our culture.

Going by your thinking, if you were Hindu, for example, you might find Christmas offensive and request that nobody celebrate it. That would of course be your right to request, but it should not be taken as an insult if some people choose to celebrate it anyway.

Just remember that religion has been the cause of a large number of wars that this world has seen, and it would probably be a better place if everybody took their religion that little bit less seriously.

QuoteCJ: Your words bring to mind a quote as it has a semblance of wisdom, but it is not from the bible. It's from a well-known movie, said by a well-known actor.
The last line spoken by Al Pacino in 'Devil's Advocate':
(paraphrased) "Vanity...definitely my favorite sin."

I'm not sure what you're trying to say there, but if you're implying that my stance on this is because somehow I get off on being likened to Jesus, I take offense to that.

My stance on this comes from having devout Christians for parents, who used to get offended by me using terms like "Oh my God!" but have now decided to accept modern culture and get over it. It's what you believe in your heart that matters, and nothing anybody else says should be able to change that.

Many things very well put there, Pumaman.  I'd like to second that "Jesus Christ" used in the CJ context is more of a cultural iconization than a reference to a deity.  

I, for one, try to avoid using (in frustration or anger or whatnot) phrases like "Jesus Christ!", "My God!","God-DAmn-it" etc.  I figure there's no reason to use them if one doesn't believe in them and that if one does believe in them, it's probably best not to use them.  

Either way, I think the best way to handle the situation is with a polite request (which was handled somewhat passably) and to leave it at that.  Let those who wish to show respect for their fellow-AGS'er at least make some attempt at avoiding offense.  I would also suggest that it be made a fair trade, however.  If the rest of the community is going to bend to WanderLady's request, I don't see why we should have statements and phrases concerning Christianity directed at us. (I'm not talking about the signature but rather religiously-oriented posts or parts of posts).  

Ah, to hell with it.. this discussion's been interesting but hasn't it gone on long enough?

Quote from: MillsJROSS on Thu 13/11/2003 08:07:37
BOYD

Quotecould you not just keep your beliefs to yourself instead of trying to force them on everyone?

Hypocritical, I need not explain further.

that would only be hypocritical if i actually had any beliefs, and you read wanderlady's original post you'll notice he never said it offended him personally, he said it was harmful to our souls and that is HIS belief, so perhaps you actually do need to explain further.

But isn't it wrong to reffer to Jesus Christ as Chris Jones? And isn't it written in the good book of "Bob the programmer" that Jesus was for christianity, what Chris Jones is for AGS?

Our local priest often says that "when Jesus preached on the Sina mountain, the people looked upon, and admired him as if he just released a new Beta for AGS"

Isn't that blasphemus?

I mean Jesus can't code that well!

Quotethat would only be hypocritical if i actually had any beliefs, and you read wanderlady's original post you'll notice he never said it offended him personally, he said it was harmful to our souls and that is HIS belief, so perhaps you actually do need to explain further.

If you didn't carry any beliefs, then WanderLady's first post woulnd't have offended you. You can't live life without beliefs, whether that be the belief in a creator or not. And so you in your statement "could you not just keep your beliefs to yourself instead of trying to force them on everyone?" are expressing a belief that WanderLady shouldn't force her beliefs on people. You, obviously, think that his forcing of his beliefs is wrong, but it's okay for you to force him not to force his beliefs (Say that sentence five times fast!).

Hell! It's even hypocritical of me to say that what your doing is hypocritical, because I'm expressing a belief by saying that your belief is hypocritical and thus void. It's hard to express a view or a belief without being hypocritical. But now I'm just blabbing. The bottom line is, why should your total lack of beliefs be any more important than WanderLady's?

And as always, any post I make is made without intent to offend, so don't take anything personal, anyone.

-MillsJROSS

Quotethe Byble story is IMHO ridiculous

That was enough. I am a Christian myself and I don't mind if you are blaspheming Jesus, as you are not hurting him or me, but you are hurting yourself. Go on and do that. It's you people who are acting offencively, as you are actually naming us religious people as idiots who can't express their own opinions.

I am not offended by you calling CJ Jesus, but I am offended by the whole threat. I mean, you are calling me an idiot. What would you do if I called *you* an idiot who doesn't *want* to believe in Jesus because if christianity is true indeed then he goes to hell?

Really, atheists have no idea what being a christian is like. And I am talking about a *real* christian, not a christian who goes to church every sunday while his behaviour is not acceptable by christianity. Crusades did not happen because of christianity, but they happened because of the people who created them. Doing the crusades in the name of christianity was their mistake and they are blasphemic more than you guys.

If you think that church or the Pope or whatever are sometimes against christianity, then fine; that's what I think too. I don't recognise any human authority and I don't remember Jesus ever said anything that we should. I only recognise God's authority and I am only obeying to some stupid laws on earth because I have to and not because I recognise them. So, people who do evil things in the name of religion are obviously sinners and blasphemers, as I am sure God doesn't accept their actions.

And if you wanna know, christianity says that all of us are sinners. So, what does this mean? Everybody goes to hell? No. You don't have to stop doing everything you like to go to heaven, but that doesn't mean that you should do it as often as you like either. Just try to avoid it and when you do it, be sorry; really sorry. God will forgive you if He thinks that He should.

I am not saying that all of you people are offending to me, so I am sorry if I sounded like it. I know there are people who respect my beliefs, but most of you are completely mocking me. I am sorry if I offended somebody of my beliefs. I was a bit offending to Catholics or people who respect the church. I didn't say that church is completely stupid or anything, I just said that you don't really have to go there, but if you can then why not?

Note that I haven't read all of the posts yet so I am sorry if I have mentioned something that has been said before.

Now, I am more of an evolutionist than a Christian, but I really resent the fact that if there is a heaven, and I don't practice praying much, *I would think that God would get tired of us asking for things all the time, if he has a plan for everything ,then what good would it do to pray for things* but I am a very good guy. I dont drink or smoke, I donate blood, I give money and food to homeless people, help out at soup kitchen type places, build houses with my church and help fix up others, and most of all, I don't lie, cheat or steal.  Now, I'm not trying to get praise for what I do, I do it because it needs to be done. I can't wait to have enough money to help get people off the streets for good.  I feel I'm here on Earth to do good and to help people.  I get deep pains seeing other people suffering from worldly things that can be solved. I don't want to be part of a religion that won't accept me as the way I am.  Being made in Gods likeness, he made us this way, and then he goes on to test us?

Some religions (not trying to be mean here) will have you praying five times a day to God.  That seems a bit egotistical of God to me.

Anyways, I was born a Christian, I want to believe in God, but if he also can not take this joke of Jesus Chris, then thats really sad.

And I don't remember reading about Dinosaurs in the Bible.  Could that be that the people who wrote it didn't know that they once existed?

Scummbuddy touched upon what I wanted to say with the comment of an "egotistical"  god.

Isn't Vanity one of the deadly sins?  And Blasphemy is against one of the 10 Commandents.  It seems rather vain to me that God would establish laws to protect his own image.

IMHO...

I think a sentence to sum up religion is:
"The only true beliefs are your own."

Which means, no matter what anyone tries to force onto you, only what YOU think is right IS right. Same with anyone else. When you die, what you truly believe will happen will happen. I believe that when you die, you are reborn again, and again, and again, until you finally have a balance of good and evil. Other people may believe different beliefs, and theirs are also right. Nobody is wrong. But the reason people preach is because they want others to share their true beliefs, cause they believe that their beliefs are right. Which they are. But about as equally right as the preachee. AAagh! I'm so confused! Anyway...

Religion has a lot of strange things in it. Calling someone Jesus Christ is NOT blasphemous, it is in fact a complement. Some people might say: "They're the next *insert celebrity here*". Is the celebrity in question supposed to be INSULTED? Is Jesus Christ different from anyone else, anyone famous or non famous, just because his father is God? Did he really come from Heaven, and do all these things and got killed? Why would God sacrifice his own son so he can prove his own power? All these questions have no answers other than your own.

(I don't mean to be insulting, I'm sorry. But I feel that people who try and say: "You're only hurting yourself! You'll go to hell just for typing a certain thing! Your soul is in danger by complimenting someone in comparing them (on a much smaller scale) to Jesus!"
Believe what you wish. Let others believe what they wish. You're all correct in your thinking.)

Eep long post. If you wish to kill me for what I type, please don't. I'm just another person expressing their opinion. Don't bother trying to hack my ramblings apart! I make no sense anyway.

Quote from: WanderLady on Wed 12/11/2003 08:24:25...So I simply ask,

Can it please not be done anymore?

Hello forum. I am a gamer/designer who has only recently shown interest in AGS, and, while I think it is a wonderfully versatile piece of software, I have decided that I do not feel that this forum will be of any help to me in my processes of learning anything about the studio or any of its designing systems.

I believe that the post that started this thread was very minimal as far as the level of understanding required to interpret it was concerned, and the actions of the people who took the occasion to jump all over the individual who asked such as simple a question as "please stop this action because it offends me" simply infuriated and disgusted me.

If as simple a request cannot be honored, or for that matter, understood for what it was (not an authoritative command, nor a put-down, nor anything of any sort other than what the author initially described it as being: a respectful “plea”), how am I to assume that the members of this forum would behave if I asked such as simple a question at some point in time? Such a thought scares me.

It appears to me that, upon asking a simple question or making a simple, respectful request, I could be attacked by enormously vicious individuals, predisposed and in actuality quite arrogant (not to mention egotistic), who think that their opinion is perfectly accurate 100% of the time, and who believe that they are exclusively correct in any matter, even that of spiritual issues, which, as far as is my understanding at least, no human can truly understand.

Because this seems logically equivalent to the level of "help" I would receive by becoming a permanent member of this forum, you may count me out of it completely, since I wish to have no part in commuting with such people who are so self-centered that they will totally ignore the thought that maybe, just maybe, somebody else is right about something, and that perhaps, just perhaps, they are wrong in some way.

I wish NOT to associate with people who are so vain that they take a simple plea and make it into a religion-bashing people-bashing idea-bashing moral-bashing thread that only genuine misanthropes would take any part in at all.

However, I will not forget to acknowledge the select few who come onto the scene quietly, in a civilized, insightful manner, intent on respecting everybody's attributes, even if they don't agree with them---or even if they know for a fact that certain beliefs/practices/traditions are totally false.

For who truly knows if religion at all holds any legitimacy? Certainly people who believe *themselves* to be the singular authority over all matters (and based on WHAT principles, anyway?) ought to know better than those who are quiet, studious, thoughtful...and perhaps, those who really choose to want to know about such things...right?

Of course, THAT is the real choice; we all know, in our spirits, that there IS a God. Now, to admit it or not; that's your choice, and eventually the consequences of whatever you choose will catch up with you, as do any and all actions performed in life itself (it’s a law of the universe). So, speaking exclusively for myself, I'm not afraid to admit that I believe in God...

But I'll leave you merely with that thought; if I said any more I would probably succeed in locking the forum. ;)

Guest



Btw, if you need a translation, just ask and I’ll informalize the whole thing. :)

QuoteI do not feel that this forum will be of any help to me in my processes of learning anything about the studio or any of its designing systems.

No, that would be correct. Try the technical help forum.

I'm gonna go ahead and say this thread has worn out its welcome. I can't imagine anything useful being added.

It's such a shame to lose such a thoughtful person over this. :(

But as you put it, Guest, it does reflect the way of this forum like that. Nonetheless, as a defense, I'd like to say that it has always been this way with threads dealing with religion. It's not the way it's supposed to be but I suppose no one is perfect. I personally haven't found this kind of atmosphere in practically any other kind of threads. If you ever come across problems, check out the Techical Discussion forum or the Critic's Lounge. They're bound to be helpful as personal issues don't get to limit anyone's good will.

I think it was the soul hurt part that got people mad, by the way.

And Scavenger, I think you have a really good point. I also think there are basically as many religions as there are people.

Thank you, Guest, whoever you are  ;D

Just an addition to what I have said above. This is a reply to many posts I haven't read before I posted my previous post.

I used to be a "fake" christian. You know, I didn't really believe to God but I was doing so because I was raised by christian family. I was simply afraid to stand up for my self. After I grew up, I was sure about it; I was an atheist. I mean, I had the same views on anything with most of you atheist guys and I was so sure that christianity was fake and nothing could prove the opposite.

About half a year ago, I met some great person who spoke to me about God and all that. That person made me rethink everything and I finally believed in God. That guy did not brainwash me, but said to me what was necessary. He planted the seed and now look at me... I finally really believe.

So, I know and fully understand the way you think, because I used to think exactly like that. I know that it seems christianity is completely redicilous to you. Well, it is not if you truly believe. There are answers to every question you asked there, though I am too lazy to post them (at least now).

I am sorry for the guy I used to be. That's all I can say for now and I hope you are given a new chance in the future, like what happened to me.

Oh guest, you're posting in the General forum, no AGS questions get answered here. In fact, this is the waste dump for the people who want to be offensive and impose their non-AGS views on other people. It shouldn't happen in the other forums, and if it does, it gets moved here.

Saying that we all "know" there is a god deep inside us is ridiculous. It's just as ridiculous as any other "ignorant" post that was made here. I can personally assure you I have never had such a feeling, and when I was 12 or so and I could finally get away with not going to church, I stopped, because it was faking that I had some sort of belief. I don't think you christians really know what it's like to be an atheist, because no matter how much we insist that we don't care and never will, you insist upon telling us damnation awaits us unless we find your ways. Our view toward you is much different, it's pretty much summed up in three words. "Don't bother me." That applies to a lot of other people as well, not just Atheists. Might explain why so much crap was made over this. I appreciate the christians here who share my "Don't bother me" philosophy. You are a unique group who I hope will dominate the christian community. The world will then become enveloped in a, "Hey, don't bother us, and we won't bother you," blanket, and no one will get offended by harmless comments as have been freely said before. No one likes an extremist of any sort but their own.

Guest, I think you are making false accusations. most people here are far from "vicious" or "self-centred". In fact, I can safely say that this the friendliest forum I've ever seen. I can't recall one time that a debate became vulgar because one person disagreed with the other. If you post a request, especially about tech stuff, people are most likely to very helpful.

I think you are wrong to judge people according to debate about such a topic. Yes, some people went too far - but it's still a very long way from everybody being "arrogant" and "egoistic". Please, check other threads, even the heated war threads, before reaching such conclusions.

QuoteOf course, THAT is the real choice; we all know, in our spirits, that there IS a God. Now, to admit it or not; that's your choice, and eventually the consequences of whatever you choose will catch up with you, as do any and all actions performed in life itself (it’s a law of the universe). So, speaking exclusively for myself, I'm not afraid to admit that I believe in God...

So basically Athiests are people who know there's a god and choose not to follow it.

Man am I glad you were just a guest.

I'm out of this thread now because it's just causing me to be rude and annoying and immature, and I'm usually not. At least, you know, try not to be. I hate to hit and run, so PM me if you have any serious issues.

Ciao, or something.


EDIT: This thread is uncharacteristic of me. It's a bad example of AGS too. As Barcik said, it's a friendly place. In fact, I'm often overwhelmed by just how helpful and friendly people can be here. Usually I am a much nicer person than this, I swear to god. Oops, I mean, vishnu.

Ok, I think that's enough for this thread.

Actually, I have to say it was a rather calm debate, compared to what can happen when religion is the topic ;)