Bush Dilemma

Started by TheYak, Sun 08/02/2004 08:31:26

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Ghormak

I live in political ignorance. I don't care about the politicians, and the politicians don't care about me. It works for me.
Achtung Franz! The comic

Minimi

Quote from: Squinky on Sun 08/02/2004 21:04:41
I'm sitting on the fence with this one....I can't put all the blame on bush for all the problems of today, becuase these things don't just pop up over night... I think the economy issue was begining to happen when Clinton was president, this is just when things started to come down....

As for all the other stuff, I can't blame it all on one guy...And I really don't think Bush is as stupid as everyone claims. How did he get to be president if he's so dumb? I don't get that part....

It's my belief that all this hatred for Bush started way back at the elections. Now, I watched (Didn't vote though) and what got me all mixed up was that the news channel was saying that Gore won states before they had %30 of the votes...what the hell was that about? So, in an hour or so, what happens? They have to correct themselfs and say that Bush won....So, then the re-counts happen, which everyone is mad about. Who started the Recount? Gore.

Now, I'm sure Gore wasn't the first guy to lose that way, but he was the first to be a big goddamned baby about it. I believe his actions caused a major rift right then and there, and a lot of people hated Bush right of the bat....Which seems silly, becuase the only one doing stupid crap (At least then) was Gore.

What worrys me the most though, is that I watch coverage of the Presidantial race going over here, and all the Democrats are saying "I don't care who gets into office, as long as it isn't Bush".Holy crap, thats scary! I'd like to think it should matter what the canidates views and history are, not just the fact that he isn't Bush!

Bah...politics suck...
I totally agree with Squinky!

shbaz

No comment on everything I said earlier?

Fact is, all of the Dem candidates are better alternatives to Bush.
Once I killed a man. His name was Mario, I think. His brother Luigi was upset at first, but adamant to continue on the adventure that they started together.

Ben

Quote from: Squinky on Sun 08/02/2004 21:04:41
What worrys me the most though, is that I watch coverage of the Presidantial race going over here, and all the Democrats are saying "I don't care who gets into office, as long as it isn't Bush".Holy crap, thats scary! I'd like to think it should matter what the canidates views and history are, not just the fact that he isn't Bush!

It's not that they don't care who gets elected. They just know that the democratic front-runners all have the potential to be good presidents.. They do care that they get a good president, it's just that they won't mind if it's not exactly the person they were looking for. A lot of Dean supporters would be perfectly happy with Kerry, because he's experienced, and cares about workers, troops, etc.. They care about credentials, but they're also willing to take the next best thing. That's the nature of democracy, like it or not.

Nacho

All the democrats who now heavy complain about having such a stupid president... Should´t be ashamed for loosing the previous elections in front of such a stupid man? ???

That is how democracy works... If you don´t like Bush, don´t vote him for the re-election...

I think it´s fucking easy, isn´t it?  :)
Are you guys ready? Let' s roll!

Peter Thomas

#25
Amen Ben.




As for earlier posts, it IS true that a lot of the economic problems were forming pro-Bush, but the man could've done a whole lot more to help slow it down (stop it?) as opposed to throwing it all into a war for oil and revenge.
Peter: "Being faggy isn't bad!"
AGA: "Shush, FAG!"

shbaz

Farlander, I attribute it to rich people and people who didn't know enough about him to merit giving their opinion, not that the Dem candidate was a poor choice. In that election I probably would have preferred a 3rd party actually. I recall my HS principal talking to one of the janitors about the election a long time ago, he'd give a reason why he liked Bush and she'd tell him how his policies would undermine that, and how bad he would be for the school, other misc. issues, and eventually he just said, "I'm just looking for a change." He couldn't defend any of his reasons to the janitor.

I think the change was for the worse, myself. I'm definately not voting for him.

Heh, and the guy I'm talking about just phoned my roomate.
Once I killed a man. His name was Mario, I think. His brother Luigi was upset at first, but adamant to continue on the adventure that they started together.

Nacho

It scares me the way you aim to the "Rich people" as an uniform mass of republican people without feelings... O_O
Are you guys ready? Let' s roll!

Darth Mandarb

What cracks me up most about this whole issue is that in 5 years (when Bush is out of office after his second term) All the same crap will be drummed up about the new guy.

"You mean he actually campainged about shit he didn't live up to?  Oh my God the shock!"

Come ON people.  It's the same thing over and over and over again yet people are still suprised by this?

Presidential Candidates lie their way into the oval office.  It's as old as campaigning itself.

"Bush lied about the WMD!!"  You mean the president LIES??  You must joking.

I don't give a shit who is president.

The Road of the Presidency:
* Act like 10 year olds on the playground when campaigning with million dollar commercials that don't say what I'm going to do, just rip on my opponet.  Very adult.
* Get in office and don't live up my pre-election promises.
* Former supporters turn against me.
* Everybody rips on me ...

blah blah blah blah.

It's the same shit every time.

That, and with the antiquated and moronic electoral college, individual votes don't mean shit anyway.

Squinky

Yeah, I'd like to say that I'd like the electorial college thing gone, it seems like my vote dosen't mean crap here in Idaho...But there must be a good reason for it?

I personally, seriously, would like to see Bush no longer in office. My reasoning: I'm tired of the whole Bush hatred thing clouding up the waters, he's just got too much baggage now too be good for anything...

I'm not really into politics, but here in my region I'd say it's mostly republican, so I'm probably being influenced, but I also have some pretty liberal ideas too. So really, I'm not too interested in partys, I just want somebody in office that isn't hated or have sex with his interns.

We need somebody worthwhile really...

DGMacphee

#30
Quote from: Minimi on Sun 08/02/2004 19:31:34
You say that, because of your convinced you have the truth in hands. If you'd start listening to other opinions once, you might learn something

I did listen to your opinions.

But I found it an illogical argument and told you why.

How can I learn something if an argument is illogical?

Quote
So you do refer to Iraq, because you can't come up with anything else more foundated statements.

Fine -- I'll include more instances next time, like his lack of participation in the Kyoto protocol, or that the US economy has been the lowest in ages, or the fact he won't allow gay marriage, or the Patriot Act... Did you want more than that, cause I got loads!

QuoteI'd like to say this... You do not know what might have happened if Bush(and the whole parlement), decided to not attack and wait for Iraq. I'm not saying war was good, because I'm against any war, for whom or whatever, but sometimes there gotta be sacrifices made for the better good. All we (the public) get to hear are stories like oil, and saddam... but have you seen the confidential papers of the governments, and all the incoming and outgoing mail of the whitehouse, listened to the phonecalls, and all other background information? No! And neither did I, so you don't know the whole truth.

But the US government does and they now say they wouldn't invade Iraq knowing what they know now.

Colin Powell gave an interview to the Washington post about it while everyone was focused on Janet Jackson's tit.

QuoteI respect of course your opinion, I'm just saying it doesn't make anything better by flaming bush.

And praising him doesn't make anything better either.

QuoteI love you too  ;D

;)
ABRACADABRA YOUR SPELLS ARE OKAY

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shbaz

QuoteIt scares me the way you aim to the "Rich people" as an uniform mass of republican people without feelings... O_O

It scares me the way the uniform mass of republican people are stripping my rights away while wasting tax money and contributing to the ruin of the world.
Once I killed a man. His name was Mario, I think. His brother Luigi was upset at first, but adamant to continue on the adventure that they started together.

TheYak

Hmm..  posted this in the interest of humor but it's launched into a political debate of sorts.  So be it.  

Ghormak stated that he didn't worry about politics and politicians don't worry about him and he likes it that way.  That's precisely the way I felt about it for quite some time. If you knew my attitudes of a few years ago, you'd find it amazing and perhaps a bit disconcerting that Bush has done what none of our presidents have done in my lifetime. He made me give a shit.  In that way, I suppose, he was useful.

I am utterly confused as to how any non-US person could back Bush. There've been the previously mentioned issues, such as the patriot act.  By the way, the Patriot Act isn't what's scary, it's the fact that these things are being passed into law like they're going out of style.  It's the ammendments and the Patriot Act II that frighten me.  After reading through the Patriot Act, there isn't too much introduced that wasn't more or less in place already.  It's the additional laws that back it and allow for more exceptions and loopholes that make the PA a violation.  

People have mentioned Bush's stupidity. It's reknowned.  You can blame the press and say that other presidents made stupid statements & grammar/spelling mistakes as well. Of course. However, don't you think the press would jump on them to an equal extent if they had as poor a track record as Bush when it comes to thinking?

His financial policies have been mentioned. Don't forget that, as governor, he also did a record-breaking FUBAR job.

If nothing else, the non-US people backing him despite his environmental standpoint is amazing. The Clean Air act, initiated during the Nixon administration, forced corporations to clean up their acts somewhat. Bush's castration of this act, to give an example, allows corporations to divert waste water and toxic sewage to the same processing plants. He gave the finger to the Kyoto convention. He didn't even suggest a compromise or state that the nation would consider it after it'd resolved post 9-11 financial issues.  He basically just said, "Up yours, we'll just worry about the US, you guys worry about the world."  He signed off on the "Healthy Forests" initiative which allows massive forest-destruction in our nation's largest remaining national forest. I'm no tree-hugger, but this attitude seems to say,"Do what we want for now, let our grandchildren frolic in the ashes."  

Alright. If you don't care about stupidity, environmentalism, foreign policy, warmongering, double-talk, et al, maybe you care about cash? I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not wealthy by any description. We've slowly been making laws that seek to repair the condition the nation was in during the 1920's.  During that time-period and through the Great Depression the US had a very large gap between those with money and those with nothing.  In the past few decades, we've managed to establish a middle-class that's a little bit less broad in scope.  Currently, you can be considered middle-class and still barely above the poverty line, or nearly independantly wealthy.  Bush's administration has signed into law (or cancelled sections of existing laws) allowing corporations to keep more of their holdings while the lower-income people pay for it.  He introduces tax-cuts, announcing that it's easing the burden of all people. One such cut is of the estate tax. Alright, so people owning a lot of property or with many investments get a tax break.  This isn't a majority of the people, and certainly not a section of the populace that needs tax breaks.

I wasn't very fond of the Clinton administration.  However, he did at least work his ass off trying to fix things.  He introduced many excellent policies concerning foreign affairs, finance, and environmental concerns. The trouble with him was that he didn't make anything self-sustaining. As soon as his administration was out, his house of cards fell flat.  He wasn't perfect, by any means, and was (like most others) deceitful, manipulative & concerned primarily with his own self-interest.  He at least made some concessions.  Bush, on the other hand, seems to smugly remind the common man of his insignificance.  He doesn't care about the will of the people.  I don't agree than any candidate's better than Bush.  Lieberman, for example, would make for a frightening presidency.  However, that will be one of my goals come November - to vote for a candidate that I think will do a good job, and to get Bush out of office.  I'd love to seriously consider a 3rd party candidate but they only suck votes away from one of two parties that will win.  

Before I end my lengthy, monotonous post, I must scream, "Hell yeah, down with the electoral college!"

Peter Thomas

Clinton lost his support because he had an affair. Bush lost support because he lied about WMD, killed innocent civillians (indirectly, I know, and it's unavoidable) and looks like a monkey.

Not hard to see which one belongs in the whitehouse...

P.S. Yakspit - Despite the fact that I agree with your post, and everything you have to say is poignant, it does sort of hurt my eyes when I have to SCROLL DOWN to read ONE message... *I can't cope*
Peter: "Being faggy isn't bad!"
AGA: "Shush, FAG!"

Timosity

It seems inevitable that this would become a political debate, mention Bush in any form and it seems to stir people up.

So I won't continue as I've stated my thoughts in other threads and am pretty sick of it all. So I'll just mention things common in any world election.

As far as the US elections go I can't really comment cause I have no Idea of the candidates. But I agree with DM about how polititions put each other down rather than telling what they would actually do.

But I can also see why they do it, in reality they have no idea what they will do, and if they do they don't want the public to know about it, cause it won't help them in.

If they told us their policies rather than what the other guy did wrong, wonder if it would help that person, It would make me more interested in what they had to say. wonder if this has ever been done, sure they announce some little boring things they'd do, but to predominantly do it, would be interesting, mature and intelligent (the opposite of a politician)

It's interesting that when it comes round to an election, a topic out of the blue is the thing most focussed upon by both sides, usually something that takes the focus off all the other important things, yet gets blown out of proportion, and then when the election is over, you don't even hear about it.

They really think that everyone else is so beneath them, to think they can trick us with these dodgey campaigns, well they're right really cause the common public fall for it everytime. Most peoples votes are already decided by the way they were brought up anyway, there needs to be more swinging voters, people with a brain in their own head to make their own decisions.


The Scarey thing is with the way the economy is in the USA, is that Australia is trying to follow in it's footsteps by privatising everthing, selling off all their major assets to private companies.

Once these things are sold there's no going back and it makes it seem like (temporarily) the government has wiped out the debt, but in reality they have just gotten rid of solid assets that could've establish the future. but now if a new govt. gets in, they have no assets to sell if they get into a bit of debt. It's just really misleading, but I'm sure it will be used in elections further down the track.

Also the thing that gets me so angry is that the govt is following the US in terms of college education fees. All these politicians had a free/cheap education to get where they are, they could buy nice houses on the water affordably and had not much fighting for places at uni. They had it fucking easy (they still may have worked hard, but only a handful get the chance now)

Now they expect the kids of today to have it tough, except the people that can afford it, their kids are more important, they must be smarter.

It's all down hill from now on and if you look into the future you can see it fail, but not in the rich's eyes, cause all they see is more money for them and their families.

and fuck Paris Hilton is an Ugly Bitch, a bad lay too

TheYak

I'm a little hopeful after recent polling results.  However, people tend to become a little bit more conservative (personally, not politically) as voting time nears.  It's a bit depressing that half the country (about) still supports him.  And I raise my imaginary mug o' beer in salute to Timosity for his insightful (and quite accurate) comments concerning Ms. Hilton.  Which brings me to another frightening thought. Due to the difficulty of spelling my last name, I've received much mail addressed to Mr. Hilton.  Makes me shudder.

DMonkey

Let's hope the half of the country that votes realizes what Bush is doing.
Who cares what the catch is, it's the flying car!

MillsJROSS

Just would like to say, I live in Florida, and Gore requesting for a revote, didn't seem so babyish at the time. There were a lot of things that were fishy with the first count, and there still remains some fishiness on that issue (I mean look at who's governor of Florida, Jeb Bush). The numbers were sooo close, and Florida was so important, I can understand the mans intentions. And who wouldn't want all their votes to be counted?

As to the original post, I think I'd honestly save Bush. And, politcally I hate the man. I don't know, I couldn't bring myself not to save him, not that I wouldn't think of it, but it's still almost killing a person if you can prevent their death with no harm to yourself. That would bother me.

As to hatred of Bush, I just watched an interview with him today on Meet the Press. Now think of the economy in the U.S.. And guess what he proposes to do about it? Lower taxes...yay! Oh wait, that doesn't really help the economy at all, as taxes will be taken out in other places when Bush realised he needs money to run a government. This is what I hate. How can you ignore common sense?

As to using Iraq as a reason for hatred of Bush. Why does this argument suddenly become void of it's importance? Because it's in the news all the time? If that was his only mistake, that mistake would be enough for me to hate him. He spent my money on a war most people never desired or were partial to, and it turns out he did it for no good reason. Thousands of Iraqi's died.

Hey, but in the end that's what's great about this country, and many other countries now. We can say, "The president sucks" and I won't be gassed tomorrow/shot down/improsoned. We have the right to an oppinion, whether it be against our country/president.

-MillsJROSS

shbaz

#38
Bush is ANYTHING but a conservative.
Once I killed a man. His name was Mario, I think. His brother Luigi was upset at first, but adamant to continue on the adventure that they started together.

DGMacphee

Quote from: Jackhammer on Mon 09/02/2004 06:53:03
Bush is ANYTHING but a conservative.

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ABRACADABRA YOUR SPELLS ARE OKAY

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