I hate Change - "New AGS's"

[Snake]

My "new AGS" gripe.
Let me start by saying that I don't really have any REAL problems with the new AGS. It still slaps the cat's ass and it's still the best thing since sliced bread. It keeps getting more and more advanced, the community is growing larger every day - a little beyond comfortable limits if you ask me (I hate crowds) - and for the love of God, people out there are making there OWN goddamn commands to put in. That MODULE shit rocks.

I'm calling it the "New AGS" because I haven't used any other version of AGS since v2.56 until v2.71. And the only reason for me downloading this version was so that I could use SSH's module for PixlePerfectCollisionDetecting.
For one, I just hate change. I get used to something where I'm comfortable and it turns around and bites me in the left ass cheak.

This reminds me of the time I posted about not liking WinAGS because it confused the hell out of me and as luck would have it, I had finally got used to RoomEdit and all of a sudden... it's history

Now it's happening to me again:
Right when I'm finally used to using AGS (again - there's been quite the long pause in AGS usage) and I know where everything is and I'm incredibly confortable and the scripting is getting easier for me to understand because I'm actually GETTING IT - BANG! New style scripting, commands being obsolete, buttons disapearing from where they've always conveniently been and being put in the toolbar!... BLARGH!!!

Believe me, I'm trying to learn the new scripting, it's a little confusing, and I'm dissapointed that everything is obsolete, but I can also see where it's easier to understand.
Here's an example:
Say I want to turn a GUI on, now I have to do this:
gCs1.Visible=true;
What the hell's wrong with this - GuiOn(1);
Eh?


Alright, I gotta go, late for work again.
I just wanted to know if there was anyone else out there who shares the same feelings as I.


--Snake

[2ma2]

Indeed, the sudden move of buttons might be a pain in the arse, but as scripting go, I see only a trend moving closer to forwards core programming and that makes our life even easier, even if we do not know it. Yes, it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks, and I am only 21 for crying out loud but we've been through harsch changes before and survived. However, the "new" AGS is trickier to get into; and we might scare newcomers with the now more complex and rigid scripting, and the GUI just does not feel as straightforward as it used to. Hell, roomedit, that was the schizzle fo' rizzle..

Is AGS becoming to flexible and complex for its own good?

[Vel]

You just get used to it. And finish Leitor's Edge!

[Gord10]

Well, the only thing doesn't change is the changing itself (hope I wrote correct in English ^^).
I felt difficulty to transing into the new version; lots of things were different. Though now I got used to use the new GUI system, etc.; I still use the old type of scripting. [ GUIOn(2); , NewRoomEx(2,120,160); etc.]
I don't think the complexity would be harmful. It's benefits (new possibilities for making new stuff) are more than its harms (newbies finding it hard).

[Squinky]

Yeah, I have had the same problems.

Although it is more the fact that I took a break from ags programming than the new stuff. I'm sure if I would have kept my head in the tech forums I would have kept up. AGS can do so much now that I am kind of intimadated by it, and have no idea where to start with converting over.

That said, it's good to see you working on games Snake.

[Radiant]

If you don't want your change, can I have it? Alms for the poor!

[Gregjazz]

Here's a secret of mine, Snake. I still use the old style of scripting in the new AGS... you just have to make sure the setting is on to allow you to do this.

But every once and a while there's some command that only the newer style of scripting can do, so I use that.

[Snake]

Thanks for the replies
Well, holy ol' jesus, there's a option to use the old scripting? WOOT!
I can't reply right now, I'm kinda tied up.

You know what I mean

Oh yeah.


Hopefully I'll be able to reply tomorrow.


--Snake

[Pet Terry]

Snake, you old horse's ass. How's it going?

Yes, there indeed is an option that allows the usage of the old style scripting ("Enforce object-based scripting" tickbox in the game's general settings), but trust me, I started learning the new scripting and I don't want to go back to the old anymore, it's really easy and useful!

Also, the newer version of AGS obviously has so many new and sweet features that it would be silly to use an older version anyways.

!!!11

[Snake]

Hey, Pete It's going pretty good. This new game I got going is pretty cool and would get better if I could actually work on it... work sucks and it'll only get longer during the summer
Don't worry (if only you were), LE is still around. I'm still writing shit down and I'm currently waiting for a reply from Rincewind. He's seemed to have dissapeared.

Yeah, I'm going to use the new scripting until I think I can't take it anymore. But I'm sure I'll get used to it.

I can't stand the fact, though, of the "import background" in the room editor being in the toolbar! How INconvenient is that? Just a click away turns into a cluster fuck


--Snake

[Pet Terry]

I can't stand the fact, though, of the "import background" in the room editor being in the toolbar! How INconvenient is that? Just a click away turns into a cluster fuck

Haha, well I agree with you on that! It took me ages to find out how to import a background after updating to the version of AGS where that was changed!

Also, hooray for LE (!!!11) and boo for working sucky hours in the summer!

[Pumaman]

I hate change too, but sometimes you have to accept that it's for the better and go with it.

The new scripting should be much easier for newbies to learn than the old one. Rather than having to do:

SetGUIObjectEnabled(3, 5, 1);

you can now do:

lstSaveGames.Enabled = true;

and the advantages should be obvious.
While of course there will be a few commands that become slightly more long-winded this way (such as gui.Visible rather than GUIOn) overall I still believe it's a huge improvement on the old system and much easier to get to grips with.

As for the buttons being moved to the "Room" menu, it was done to allow you to access the commands whilst in the Areas and Objects modes, but the jury's still out on that one

[Snake]

As for the buttons being moved to the "Room" menu, it was done to allow you to access the commands whilst in the Areas and Objects modes, but the jury's still out on that one

Haha Yeah, it's a little pain in the ass, but I see your point. Maybe have one still where it used to be as well - or maybe a floating toolbar...?

Me feeling "foot-loose and fancy free" with the new scripting will eventually come in time. Like I said, it's just a matter of getting used to it after already being used to it a different way.

Pete: Yeah, summers suck. Winter's pretty much the best season to have time off enough to actually make a noticable amount of progress.


--Snake

[Dave Gilbert]

I know of what you speak, Mr. Snake.  I have encountered many folk like you who don't like change - even if the change is beneficial. 

This reminds me of an old job I used to have.  I worked at the finance desk at a news station, and their computers had this ancient DOS system where you had to enter in long, complicated commands to do anything.  For many, this was no problem.  They'd been there long enough that the lengthy commands were no problem.  Then the I/S department put in a newfangled windows version.  It was sleek, easy to use, and much more stable. 

Everyone hated it.

That said, I had trouble with the new object oriented system at first, but it's become second nature to me now.  In a way, it allows me to do error checking as I program, because if the command list doesn't appear when I his period, I know I'm doing something wrong.

OO is FOON!

[jetxl]

I still use 2.6something. I tried version 2.7something twice.
The first time I was biased because of my negative experience with OOP, and I removed it 5 minutes later.
The second try was a fair shot, because those floats and cosinus do look snazzy. But it just felt wierd, maybe not Innsmouth weird, more like from Windows to Linux weird. I didn't touch it again, and two moths later it was dragged and dropped in the waste bin.

...
As for the buttons being moved to the "Room" menu, it was done to allow you to access the commands whilst in the Areas and Objects modes, but the jury's still out on that one

Call me daffy, but why not have both buttons?

[InCreator]

If anything sucks then it's AGS manual & double scripting when needed together.

It's just.... somewhat unorganized... manual by itsself is fine, but if you need it to figure out functions, things get really messy.

For example, in the past, I needed lots of help on some built-in variables, such as character[].something, and it was always a long search, because they are listed under some other paragraph.

Manual needs better examples also, I studied 3 days how struct works and never got it to work... despite extremely simple example in manual!

I'm sure that my game has both new and old style scripts and I actually can't tell which are which! Probably because I never learned one style entirely -- I didn't know everything before new scripting style came out.

If support for old functions goes away in some release, I couldn't switch due lots of reworking my game would require then.

[m0ds]

Some of the new AGS scripting is really good, but it really has gotten far to programmery for me. I liked the Americanised scripting language, it really was simple to master. Like you say Snake, it is a bit annoying when you think you've finally got something down and it all changes. My main problem is time, something I really don't have like I did three years ago. What's done is done though, and you can't not love AGS!

Still, I seriously hope CJ brings back the "import background" buttons!