Can you identify this symbol?

[police brutality]

I'm sorry if this is out of place, but no one I know could answer this question.

This is the insignia of a Neo Nazi (I guess it could be called neo nazi, since it doesn't seem to be very traditional) group which operated in northern Buenos Aires until last Hallowen when it was disbanded (Rumors say it's leaders were attacked by the police, since the goverment got a bit worried about the emergence of a higly organized, "serious" nazi organization)  That's another story tough, and I can't really trust anyone on these "rumors" since almost every trace of this group has been erased, and I can't contact any ex members since they're all seem to be scared to death (One even said his phone conversations are under surveillance, others wouldn't even talk to me fearing I was a detective)

So enough with this freak show. I'm writing a story on this group for the school newspaper. And I wanted to know the name of the symbol they use.



Also, a short poem I got off one of their inside "pamphlets" which was EXTREMELY hard to find. Maybe you can tell me more about this "mythology"? Is it 100% original? If not, from where did they take it? Who are the characters?

What does it mean?

"If the Spirit prevails,
Leonidas will be re born, the
man will step down for the
New Man, for the HERO
and the light of the absolute Individual
will rip to pieces the veil of
darkness with it's noble
presence. Thor will crush
the serpent, Balder will be
re born, and will start a new
mankind."

Thanks for any help you can offer.

[EagerMind]

Google is a wonderful thing.

Check out this page (first result in the Google search).

As for the poem: Leonidas, Thor, and Balder. Once you identify the references, the meaning becomes quite clear.

[InCreator]

Well, it was really easy to guess: Most nazi symbols are black-white-red color.
Would be interesting article, though. Is it allowed to write about nazis in school paper?

[Boney]

the symbols are T and O written with runes http://aase.hoejgaard2.person.emu.dk/kursist/vinkinger/rune.htm
As you can read in eagerminds links Thor and Balder are norse gods and Leonidas was a greek king so the poem is most likely a mix of different stories.Ã,  the part about thor and balder is probably from this poem http://cybersamurai.net/Mythology/nordic_gods/LegendsSagas/Edda/PoeticEdda/Voluspo.htm about ragnarok...

[police brutality]

Thanks a lot for all the help.

I'm allowed to write about any extremist group, as long as I don't describe them as glorious or anything like that.

[Andail]

Just for the reference, norse gods are very closely connected to nationalist (often extremist) groups in scandinavia today. Sadly. If you would have a poster or a t-shirt with Tor, Oden or Balder on it, you'd be branded a racist immediately.
Arguably, fully equiped metalheads, with the typical long unwashed hair, black leather tights and a two tons of nails, shells and chains attached to their clothes can get away with such symbols and still pass as non-racists.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

That's rather sad that people tie mythology to a particular cause, but people are often very close-minded that way.  Does the same occur if people wear t-shirts with Marvel Comics' version of Thor on it?

[lo_res_man]

Just for the reference, norse gods are very closely connected to nationalist (often extremist) groups in scandinavia today. Sadly. If you would have a poster or a t-shirt with Tor, Oden or Balder on it, you'd be branded a racist immediately.

That sucks, Norse Gods are some of my favourite. Especially Loki, that guy is sweet. ;DSure he can be evil, but he is a trickster, creator and destroyer. On a similar note, the swastika, even in the  45 degree angle nazi-type  version, is much older then any of those freak jobs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
That symbol just looks a like an arrow, what it means to the group I don't have a clue.

[Steel Drummer]

I'm sorry if this is out of place, but no one I know could answer this question.

This is the insignia of a Neo Nazi (I guess it could be called neo nazi, since it doesn't seem to be very traditional) group which operated in northern Buenos Aires until last Hallowen when it was disbanded (Rumors say it's leaders were attacked by the police, since the goverment got a bit worried about the emergence of a higly organized, "serious" nazi organization)  That's another story tough, and I can't really trust anyone on these "rumors" since almost every trace of this group has been erased, and I can't contact any ex members since they're all seem to be scared to death (One even said his phone conversations are under surveillance, others wouldn't even talk to me fearing I was a detective)

So enough with this freak show. I'm writing a story on this group for the school newspaper. And I wanted to know the name of the symbol they use.



Also, a short poem I got off one of their inside "pamphlets" which was EXTREMELY hard to find. Maybe you can tell me more about this "mythology"? Is it 100% original? If not, from where did they take it? Who are the characters?

What does it mean?

"If the Spirit prevails,
Leonidas will be re born, the
man will step down for the
New Man, for the HERO
and the light of the absolute Individual
will rip to pieces the veil of
darkness with it's noble
presence. Thor will crush
the serpent, Balder will be
re born, and will start a new
mankind."

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Dude, you seem obsessed with Nazis. That sign is a rune.

[Andail]

Steel drummer, first of all, don't quote entire posts with pics and all if it's not necessary. Secondly, try to get into the topic of the conversation before posting.

[lo_res_man]

It looks like the T rune, sort of, so maybe that stands for... Tautonic?

[Esseb]

That's rather sad that people tie mythology to a particular cause, but people are often very close-minded that way.Ã,  Does the same occur if people wear t-shirts with Marvel Comics' version of Thor on it?

I think you've got the wrong impression. We wouldn't think someone wearing a t-shirt with a cartoon version of Thor on it were a neo-nazi. The neo-nazis are too serious for that. It's nothing like a Christian fundamentalist being upset by cartoon versions of the devil. The reason someone wearing a t-shirt with a (non-cartoon) version of Thor on it is considered to be a neo-nazi is simply because they're the only ones who aren't too ashamed to wear one. It's not a case of tying the mythology to a particular cause, more vice versa. The neo-nazis have embraced the norse mythology to such a degree that they've practically got a monopoly on it.

It's a bit sad really. The Greeks get to be proud of their old gods.

(Heavy, and other kinds of, Metal people excluded from the above. They're allowed to take norse mythology seriously)

[Snarky]

I think you're giving a pretty skewed impression of how Scandinavians feel about Norse mythology. I've never heard of anyone being ashamed of it at all. Rather, it's one of the proudest parts of our cultural heritage. It's taught in schools, there are retellings of the myths for children, there's a popular Danish comic book about the Norse gods, etc. You occasionally see women wear replica Viking jewelry (usually in silver) which had religious significance when it was originally worn. A lot of people have read some of the sagas. After all, almost everything we have preserved of the Norse beliefs was written down after the conversion to Christianity, so it is much closer to literature than it is to scripture: Snorre et al. were not believers.

If someone wore a T-shirt with a photo of a medieval statue of Thor, I doubt many people would think of that as a far-right statement. Or a modern art-style representation, or as you say, a cartoon picture. Really, you could get away with almost any kind of representation...

Except: There's a certain kind of realistic, idealized, almost cinematic school of painting that was much favored by the fascists, and a combination of this style with a Norse motif on a T-shirt or a poster (but probably not as an original painting) would raise some eyebrows, especially if combined with runic inscriptions. I wouldn't say the neo-nazis have a monopoly even on this narrow slice of mythology, though. You still see the same kind of illustrations on, say, the covers of books about the Norse gods. (Not to mention on fantasy paperbacks and in Conan comics.) And though runes are often associated with the neo-nazis, they have to share them with the metalheads and the "olde time"-y inns and tourist cabins. The Nazi obsession with "Germanic" mythology is a bit embarrassing, but not much more.

By the way, the symbol is most commonly known in English as the Tiewaz rune, after the German name of the god.

[EagerMind]

I think you're seeing exactly why the Nazis and their followers have adopted these symbols: as an attempt to legitimize their thuggery and butchery by trying to link their ideology (if you can call it that) to early cultural origins and mythology.

I don't know how Scandinavians feel about all this (other than the couple of posts below), but offhand I'd say if a legitimate form of expression is in danger of being co-opted by extremists, then it's all the more reason to use that form of expession: to show that the extremists' interpretation is not the correct one.

[Boney]

Actually in 2003 the old nordic beliefs was approved by the danish government to be a religion http://www.fornsidr.dk/index_uk.html

[Esseb]

I think you're giving a pretty skewed impression of how Scandinavians feel about Norse mythology.

Yeah, I'm slightly prone to exaggeration. It's my only flaw. It is, as you said, the romanticised depictions that are linked to the neo-nazis.

[Pet Terry]

Just for the reference, norse gods are very closely connected to nationalist (often extremist) groups in scandinavia today. Sadly. If you would have a poster or a t-shirt with Tor, Oden or Balder on it, you'd be branded a racist immediately.

I don't think this applies to Finland (but then again, Finland doesn't belong to Scandinavia). At least I find it hard to imagine that someone would think I'm a racist if I went about wearing a Norse mythology shirt. I have heard, however, that Finland shirts have been banned in some schools because they are thought to be racists. I don't know if it's true but if it is, it's super stupid. But so are people.

[Tuomas]

I agree with Pete. Though I've never heard of banning Finland t-shirts, but it must be if the school has a number of skinheads or so who all have the same t-shirt. Meaning, they've got a case of racists who keep those shirts as their logos or something, and that's why they're banned. I reckon that's basically what happened to the Thor things. Certain people start wearing them, and suddenly people gave them a second look.

[lo_res_man]

Maybe someone should infiltrate their secret headquarters, rise to the top and command all ye minions to wear Barbie-pink care-bear pyjama’s

[Helm]

In greece, people with t-shirts about GREECE, GREEK GODS and/or ancient greek on them usually are either tourists, or far-right extremists. Our metal bands don't deal much with greek mythology either, and when they do they do it very tastefully to not be branded some sort of National Socialist group or whatever.

Metalheads in general (and in greece we still have the olde type ones with the jackets and nails and whatnot) do wear a lot of stuff that is by bands that have norse runes or iconology or whatnot on their covers, therefore it cross-polinates. The black metal people especially since a lot of the original norwegian black metal is in well... norwegian.

Our neo-nazis intermingle greek myth, nordic, pagan, whatnot all in one big pot of stupid, as seems to be the case with the original poster's people as well.