debating with stupid people... :(

[Nikolas]

Ok.

I apologise in advance for this. I'm just highly pissed off right now :@...

There is this new guy over at cgempire (thread: http://www.cgempire.com/forum/showthread.php670), and he claims that he is a designer at high profile. so far so good. But he acts like the high prima done or something.

His claims are that designers are wronged, and are not heard and that his team, and potentially all teams ruin the dreams the designer has. Whis is not far from the truth sometimes. But his reactions, posts, answers, everything seem to indicate that he's a total arse. Almost in a trollish way. but acting more maturely so, he's not a troll (and not posting anywhere else really).

The debate has gone to page 4 and after I have him an honest, although harsh, critic he comes back like "so, now musicians talk as well?", or something.

I mean the guy obviously has commincation problems, but just is blind as well...

Or maybe I'm being an arse and crazy???

I always try to see what other people think about this, thus the new thread in AGS.
I dunno... you tell me...

(I can't quote the whole 4 pages for obvious reasons, so, sorry for sending you over there...)

Sorry for the rant...

[Radiant]

People like him are precisely why, almost without exception, you can't be a game designer unless you also have practical skills.

[SSH]

Don't worry, there are no stupid people on THESE forums

[voh]

Pardon the horribly wrong joke, but:

"Debating on the internet is like competing in the special olympics, even if you win, you're still a retard."

It's not worth it. Cut your losses and spend your time better

[EldKatt]

Let's make a rational analysis of the situation.

What potential gain could come out of a debate like this?

- You could convince him he's wrong about the stuff he's arguing for.
- You could convince him he's an ass.
- As a result of the above, he might thank you for showing him the light.

Potential loss?

- Undesirable frustration for you. (I think this is an actual loss at this point.)
- You're spending time doing things that cause the undesirable frustration (reading and writing in the debate) that you could've spent doing something else. (Presumably also already happening at this point.)

Now, how probable is it that any of the potential gain events would actually happen? How probable is it that the potential losses come true? Judge for yourself, and act accordingly.

(So, what I'm saying is basically voh's joke, but clad in fancy intellectual robes.)

[MillsJROSS]

I read through the posts, and as a programmer, I don't really think JeffDXA is being unreasonable. His problem is that he listed something that bothers him about programmers on a forum where most of the people who frequent there, are probably passionate about games. So really he's just not complaining to the right people. I like how everyone assumes he's a bad game designer just because he's stepping on toes on the forum. Just stop posting on that thread and it will go away.

-MillsJROSS

[Scorpiorus]

His claims are that designers are wronged, and are not heard and that his team, and potentially all teams ruin the dreams the designer has.

People like him are precisely why, almost without exception, you can't be a game designer unless you also have practical skills.

Yeah, taking for granted a designer must be an imaginative person in mind and need a way to express themselves and their ideas (say, through writing and drawing), and any game designer must also take care of the gameplay/interaction elements, a computer game designer is highly appreciated to have a certain level of knowledge in computer field and programming in particular (and it's actually a must for large commercial game developer companies). That's because a game might be described relatively easy from a mathematical point of view but the actual implementation for computer should also consider computer resources that are available, such as processing speed and available memory. And that's what a good computer game designer should always keep in mind and roughly plan out while working on their projects. One may come up with a very bright innovative idea for a game with all the design docs and specifications prepared, but unfortnately it won't necessarily work as a computer game because of certain technical limitations and other reasons of that kind. That's all about balancing which is up to the computer game designer, really.

Anyway, it seems a bit off topic with the thread name...

[Da_Elf]

all i can say is the world is ful of pompas asses. infact sometimes in my industry i need to be a bit pompas to get the clients. the internet is waaaay full of them though since anyone can claim to be someone they are not without having to fully back it up. heck, i know im decent in 3d and i might come off as being a "know it all" on this forum, but im only average at the most. you just got to take people with a "grain of salt" i guess. its more fun when your able to catch someone in a lie though. ive gone up against a competitor on a contract where he was showing some of my work to a client that i was also bidding on. atleast i was able to show the client who actually did the work. If this guy has been "wronged" for so long then it has to seriously say something about him. i kinda agree with voh that internet arguements are kinda pointless, however sometimes putting the frustration aside they can be so much fun in proving someone in the wrong, on the forum for the software i use called vray im a beta tester and minor tech support and i used to looooove cathing the guys logging on using a cracked version. i got pretty good at it. they kinda closed down the public part of the forum though due to the amount of cracked users we were finding logging on thoug

[zeblin]

Well, I'll say that reading halfway through his first post I can tell he's a jerk.  How can someone insult musicians right out of the gate.  Well, wait and see his first successful project without any music.  Not that it can't be done, but games play better with a good soundtrack.. As do movies, tv, etc...  Even fun games like JAPCA would have been better with music.  Sorry, I know there's a bigger picture to this post than that but I had to speak my mind here.

Anyway, I'm with you Nikolas, the guy is an Arse...  (can American's use that term?)

[Nikolas]

Thanks guys.

After posting here I didn't go back to the thread (to reply that is), but I see that the Jeff guy sort of said he's sorry for the way he talked to me... Either way, I do agree that debates are mostly pointless but sometimes you just can't help but answer back...

Big thanks to Vince XII for joining the discussion

And yes, Da_Elf sometimes you need to pump up yourself, but you do it with clients not o nthe random internet guy. And I also do that when pitching for a job, but I call it promotion, or selling myself and my skills... That's perfectly acceptable.

[Nine Toes]

Don't worry, there are no stupid people on THESE forums

How dare you say that I'm not stupid!

[Pumaman]

And yes, Da_Elf sometimes you need to pump up yourself, but you do it with clients not o nthe random internet guy. And I also do that when pitching for a job, but I call it promotion, or selling myself and my skills... That's perfectly acceptable.

Never underestimate me. You're fired.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Never let a musician make your parachute!

[Sam.]

I'd say a good start in your "industry" would be to learn how to spell, words like pompous. Punctuation might help too. Unless it is an entirely dance based industry, in which case, I apologise.

[Da_Elf]

yeah. my spelling always sucked. Thank goodness i work in a visual medium rather than text based