The 'Emo' attitude as Neo-Romanticism?

police brutality · Thu 14/06/2007 05:00:32

hello,

I think I could use your help and opinions, since they were extremely useful when preparing my "Alice in Wonderland in popular culture" class.

I have to prepare a new class, this time I can show a little video and use up to 60 minutes (Last time I had 15) I want to describe how the current dominant waves of thinking/attitude known as 'emo', constitute the re discovery of romanticism: pessimism caused by the 11th sept. attacks and school shootings at the end of the 20th century, and a overall feeling of being surrounded by violence.

The question is, how?

Romanticism was known for these points:

* Emotions over reason
* Nationalism
* Liberalism
* Anti conformism
* The self as imperfect, unfinished and open, surrounded by the opposite
* Individualism
* Appeal to dark, obscure settings, like the night
* Sadness, solitude, melancholy

I'm sure these fit very well the emo attitude, except for nationalism. And I'm sure that emos do idealize the human body, thing that romantics didn't do.

The video I'll show is "Welcome to the Black Parade" by My chemical romance, as an anthem of these characteristics.

What do you think?

Also, how did romantics view fate and self determination? The same as emos?

deadsuperhero · Thu 14/06/2007 05:19:13

Interesting idea. And good choice of music, I love that song.
As somebody who hangs out with some messed up emo kids, let me talk about what I know.

-Nationalism: Like any American, some have it, some don't. They tend to hate the majority, and fear crowds. They wish they were understood, but shun comfort. Emos tend to have almost a "nationality" of their own. If they're alike, they tend to hang out.

-Idolizing the Human Body: Um, most people do this? It's called sexuality?
On an interesting note, though, emos tend to not like showing sexual characteristics sometimes, in order to APPEAR more sexual to their own kind. It's strange, but true. Some also crossdress, as is the case with my best friend.

Also, take note that not all emos are depressed. They're kind of a subculture, if you will. The ones I know seem pretty happy most of the time, but seem to get extremely depressed over breakups, family mishaps, etc. Although that sort of behavior is normal for anybody, emos tend to magnify that behavior a lot more.

That's all I have to say about that.

evenwolf · Thu 14/06/2007 08:52:01

How do you figure 9.11 was involved with the creation of emo?

http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/Spring03/Seawell/history.htm

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=the+EMO+Movement

Perhaps crowds of high school kids lept onto the phenomenon due to the attacks but I was curious if you interviewed emo kids about their reasons for their lifestyle choice.

voh · Thu 14/06/2007 10:24:02

Quote* Anti conformism

That one keeps cracking me up, whether it's referring to emos or any other subculture. Nobody is anti conformist, they're selectively conformist. Emos are conformist towards the emo 'style', punks are conformist to the punk 'style', metalheads are conformist to their own style.

I love it when people go "I am unique!". So's everyone else! Where's your uniqueness now?

Andail · Thu 14/06/2007 10:47:55

What about nature? Romanticism is very closely linked to the addressing of the sublime nature.

aussie · Thu 14/06/2007 12:43:44

Quote from: Andail on Thu 14/06/2007 10:47:55
What about nature? Romanticism is very closely linked to the addressing of the sublime nature.

I agree, it seems to be particularly concerned with nature unleashed, you know, storms, winds and so forth.

Hudders · Thu 14/06/2007 13:19:02

Where does Adam Ant come into this?

Hammerite · Thu 14/06/2007 14:25:59

To be honest, I hardly think that emos are individual.
They all care so much that EVERYONE ELSE THINKS they're individual, that it's just not individual at all.

Bohnito · Thu 14/06/2007 15:42:21

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XEJDGLF-e18

evenwolf · Thu 14/06/2007 16:09:24

This must be some sort of puzzle!

emos = "some" backwards. WHAT COULD IT MEAN?!?!?!

Erenan · Thu 14/06/2007 17:08:44

I believe that this whole Romanticism/Classicism thing can, in the broadest sense, be seen kind of like a pendulum that swings back and forth. And I further believe that in general we are currently in a Romantic period. So I'd suggest that, yes, these kids dubbing themselves "EMO!!!11LOL" are a part of the current Romantic phase, but certainly not the whole of it.

Sam. · Thu 14/06/2007 17:28:19

This discussion is slightly ridiculous...

I listen to some music that could be called emo (MCR/Dashboard Conffesional) But i don't share any of these character traits that are being chucked about.

I also like other music as well

On a side not, the Smiths were the first and greatest emos.

ManicMatt · Thu 14/06/2007 23:08:01

Indeed, I listen to Clipse (hip-hop), Paradise Lost (Gothic metal), Clor (Electronic pop), Athlete (Indie), Roni Size Reprazents (Drum n bass), Kathryn Williams (Folk), MCR (Emo), Pitchshifter (Industrial) and Face To Face (Punk.)

So I must be an urban goth emo indie chav hippy punk.

evenwolf · Thu 14/06/2007 23:13:06

Something about a band named after a John Milton book just seems... bologna.

police brutality · Thu 14/06/2007 23:13:56

why did this get moved to general discussion? this isn't meant to be a discussion! i was just asking for help in preparing my class...

anyway thanks a lot. You can't imagine how useful all these stuff is.

Quote-Nationalism: Like any American, some have it, some don't. Emos tend to have almost a "nationality" of their own. If they're alike, they tend to hang out.

You're right- i should have noticed this earlier: they do label themselves emo, after all.

Quote-Idolizing the Human Body: Um, most people do this? It's called sexuality?
On an interesting note, though, emos tend to not like showing sexual characteristics sometimes, in order to APPEAR more sexual to their own kind. It's strange, but true. Some also crossdress, as is the case with my best friend.

True, thanks. I don't think it's important if they cross dress, it's just part of the fashion that emos use, and fashions can be anything. Just for the record I myself wear black tights often.

QuoteHow do you figure 9.11 was involved with the creation of emo?

I haven't asked any emos "why are you emo", because I'm not going to get an answer like "9/11 made me realize the futility of life". The reason for why they see the world the way the do is, in my opinion, sub conscious, and only comes out with the lyrics of their music, that they identify with.

I don't really know how it started (I'm talking about the sub culture; not the music. I know there was a music sub genre at the end of the 80's called "emo" I think they're completely different phenomenons) but since 9/11 made Gerard Way start My Chemical romance, I figure that's 1 reason. I mean, he couldn't be the only one who was affected like that.

By the way were you the author of that Urban Dictionary article? It's great. I'm going to use that. thanks

QuoteThat one keeps cracking me up, whether it's referring to emos or any other subculture. Nobody is anti conformist, they're selectively conformist. Emos are conformist towards the emo 'style', punks are conformist to the punk 'style', metalheads are conformist to their own style.

Yes you're right, but I want to analyze what they stand for and where does it come from.

QuoteI agree, it seems to be particularly concerned with nature unleashed, you know, storms, winds and so forth.

What about emos? do you see any of that in the emo culture?

Quotebelieve that this whole Romanticism/Classicism thing can, in the broadest sense, be seen kind of like a pendulum that swings back and forth. And I further believe that in general we are currently in a Romantic period. So I'd suggest that, yes, these kids dubbing themselves "EMO!!!11LOL" are a part of the current Romantic phase, but certainly not the whole of it.

That's true. I liked the way that sounds, I'm going to copy and paste that and keep it, my closing statement has to be something like that.

Just wondering, what would be "the rest of it"?

QuoteI listen to some music that could be called emo (MCR/Dashboard Conffesional) But i don't share any of these character traits that are being chucked about.

Then you're not part of the emo culture.

ManicMatt · Thu 14/06/2007 23:23:42

Quote from: evenwolf on Thu 14/06/2007 23:13:06
Something about a band named after a John Milton book just seems... bologna.

Riiiight. Well it's a film now as well! Infact, I was wearing a Paradise Lost band t-shirt the other day and a customer in my store asked me if I'd seen the film yet. Grr. Maybe I'll pretend I'm a big fan of Milton's eh!

Erenan · Fri 15/06/2007 00:12:18

Quote from: police brutality on Thu 14/06/2007 23:13:56
Quote from: Erenanbelieve that this whole Romanticism/Classicism thing can, in the broadest sense, be seen kind of like a pendulum that swings back and forth. And I further believe that in general we are currently in a Romantic period. So I'd suggest that, yes, these kids dubbing themselves "EMO!!!11LOL" are a part of the current Romantic phase, but certainly not the whole of it.

That's true. I liked the way that sounds, I'm going to copy and paste that and keep it, my closing statement has to be something like that.

Just wondering, what would be "the rest of it"?

Well, first of all, I'm not really sure it's so simple as a true pendulum. My understanding of Romanticism is pretty strictly focused on the arts, and especially music, so I'll focus on that for the sake of avoiding bullshit as much as I can. Back in the day it appears to me that Romanticism was the dominant approach to the arts. It was a strong majority. Currently, however, although I do believe that contemporary artistry is predominantly Romantic in nature, we've reached a point in the development of art as a social function that there may not be any present majority in terms of a simply defined -ism. Many have attempted to dub the present age as Pluralism, but I think it won't be clear until we view it in retrospect.

As for the "rest of it," it might include anything from George Crumb's music to Stephen King's fiction to movies by directors such as Stanley Kubrick or Darren Aronofsky.

Concerning Emo's origins, I'm sure it's possible that current events, including what happened on September 11th, might have had an influence on the development of the Emo subculture, if indeed we can call it a subculture. World War I had an enormous effect on the thinking of the general public. The general attitude before the war was that humankind had unlimited potential, and everyone was excited to see what wonders man would come up with. Then the war broke out and this attitude was shattered. Dadaism was one notable result. It seems reasonable to me that 9/11 would... affect, if not shatter, the attitude of contemporary Americans, and Emo could very well be in part a direct or indirect result of that effect (probably indirect, if you ask me). But it does appear to be a direct growth from earlier subcultures. In any case, social development is a complicated thing, and I don't think it will be remotely clear until a few decades have passed and we can look back at it to get some perspective.

And if you're going to copy and paste what I wrote, then please paraphrase it. At the very least, don't put "EMO!!!11LOL" in your assignment. And be warned! I even suspect my own post of being bullshit. At least... partially...

lo_res_man · Fri 15/06/2007 00:36:07

We technically can be still be said to be in the romantic era anyway. In fact it was the romantics who started the whole artists free expression and control over there own work idea. Not to mention the " Crazy artists are the most expressive" idea

Mr Flibble · Fri 15/06/2007 00:45:45

Romance is based on passion, irrational love, and something quite noble which I can't put my finger on.

Emo is based on being single, having long hair, and a lot of hormones.

Whilst I can see what you're going for, romanticism is decent and respectable, but emo-ism is often just silly and self-perpetuating. It's like a middle class form of "depression".

I'd be quite interested if you could reconcile the two ideas successfully.

To me, romanticism is something to be respected, possibly admired. It's about love, culture, passion, and a lot of the other things you'd list if you were trying to work out what made mankind worthwhile. Emo seems to be based on people who have a varying degree of association with a type of music which reflects their current negative emotions. And they have long hair.

Personally, if you try to compare the two you're going to struggle. You're actually romanticising emo, making it out to be a much more important thing than it is. Ah, irony.

lo_res_man · Fri 15/06/2007 00:58:42

I didn't say that, I just said that we are still IN the romantic era, and therefore how can emo be Neo-romantic? like classicism and neoclassicism were separated by ( I think) baroque and rococo. From what I know yes, emo is silly. and not in a good way. its like those middle class white hip hop fans. I'm not saying white guys can't rap its just ir seems to all a bunch of well, posing. there is no real. but was there ever?