Windows windows windows.

[Khris]

Here's my take on putting glass in there:


(Constructed reflections using guesstimated vanishing points. The picture looks fine but the perspective isn't 100% correct.)

Btw, the picture you posted was resized to something like 197%; not sure what you did there. Just take the 320 original and resize it by putting "width=640" into the IMG tag.

Regarding the second picture:
You're using a straight one point-perspective. If the people are on the same height level as the doorway base, the doorway is too low.



As you can see, only a doorway above or below the horizon can obscure the head or the feet.

[Monsieur OUXX]

@Ali, @Markbilly : As I wrote, the way I recommended to draw the stripes does not reflect reality. It's just a set of cheap tricks that always help glass looking good. But you might have exagerated the perspective a little bit, Markbilly, that's why the stripes on the ceiling windows look a bit weird. I think a perspective between that you draw and no perspective at all would look good

However, if you want to go realistic, then you must do it the way Khris described. It's more work though. It's up to you.

[Monsieur OUXX]

@Markbilly: There's something you can easily fix on the picture with the vertical windows :

If you assume the sun is up in the sky (which would make sense, lol), then it's casting its light down, and therefore the small horizontal plane at the bottom of each window should have a lighter color than :
- the wall
- the vertical planes on each sides of the windows*

VERTICAL PLANES -->  WALL    ---> HORIZONTAL PLANES
    DARKER          -->  MEDIUM   -->     LIGHTER


* The fact that those planes are darker than the rest is a personal choice, not necessarily realistic, but that looks good 90% of the time.

[markbilly]

I've tried to incorporate what everyone has said:



I really HATE this background. At least with the other one it still looks pretty good, regardless how 'wrong' it is.

P.S. @Khris it is an in-game screenshot and I was playing at 3x nearest-neighbour - so I just resized it 66% in PSP, which cocks it up a little.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Why don't you try drawing it from a complete different perspective?  Something more revealing and dynamic?

For instance, you could try angling the visibility of the room to focus on the entrance, like this:




I made this edit rather quickly and it's certainly not optimal but it gives you an idea of the things you can do to spice up the presentation of a room even before you add details.  You could, for example, give the hall a gradual curve as it moves away from the viewer, or you could remove the section of the wall where the windows are for a clear look at the hallway, or you could angle it in the opposite direction with the player looking on the windows from the inside; the possibilities are as endless as your imagination.  Two-point perspective could even provide ADDITIONAL shape and value to what is otherwise a plain hall, so don't be afraid to play around a bit with perspective lines and angles until you settle on a room presentation that really brings out the details you want to present. 

Even 'filler' rooms like this can have some personality injected just by using a clever angle to present them!

[markbilly]

I think the problem is that all the other rooms in the game are based on one-point perspective. It would be odd for one room to suddenly be in two-point.

I'm going to sit down and sketch some ideas, though. Thanks, everyone.

[Monsieur OUXX]

To be honest I like you simple perspectives, color schemes and compositions.
But if you don't fix that lighting effect on the horizontal part of the windws, I'll spill petrol on myself and light a match.

[InCreator]

incredibly sloppy edit (cannot draw on laptop) but here's 2 techniques I use



1) Reflection. I basically copied whole room into new layer, flipped upside down (or not), then using skew transform in photoshop, fitted to glass area. Finally, Reduced layer opacity to around 15-10%.

It doesn't really matter what's reflected really if the opacity is low enough. Also, you can go over reflection layer and play with hue & saturation - for tinted glass, for example.

And despite book of perspective written into this thread, my version is very unrealistic. Important is that if used properly, it simply looks good!

What I couldn't do properly was to remove reflections from between window.

2) Dim - although you're strictly not using soft brushes, here's also what works: I cover glass area with pure white, lower opacity to 3-10%, and using soft eraser, erase most of the white layer, leaving only glass edges.

Good technique to imitate old or dirty glass. Some monochromatic noise doubles the effect.

As for current image, those are only ideas and I'm not sure if neither of them does any good.

[Khris]

I'm sorry but I have to say how very wrong I think it is to do a reflection that way. Even if it's barely visible, the lighter parts still show pretty clearly and it simply looks horribly off.
The world of advertising is full with wrong reflections, please lets not teach methods that contribute to this sad state even more.
Also, why on earth would you skew the layer to fit the glass area? That doesn't make any sense even within the generous limits of that sloppy method.

While we're at it though, there are a couple of things wrong with the picture:
-the shading of the right wall doesn't make sense at all
-the beams are leaning to the right (their vp is further to the left than the one of the doorway)
-the structure to the left is pretty close to the angled back wall, yet they don't seem to meet at the top

Don't get me wrong, I really like the background. It has so much potential, and getting it to look good will take some work but the end result will well be worth it.

[markbilly]

There are a lot of minor inconsistencies and slight errors with the perspective in the background, but development on TLG is so far down the line now that I'll never be able to improve the art enough to be completely satisfied, without pushing it back a year or so.

I'm using the last few months of development to brush up on some of the major problems, like any background that is dull, or doesn't do its job. I'm also using the time to improve the storytelling and dialogue - which is frankly more important.

I'm having a go at re-drawing the corridor background to mirror the other corridor better, but I will have to leave the first background how it is.

I'll post up what I have when I've one a bit more on it. Thanks again!

[Jim Reed]

I tried my hand at this gordian problem of light. I'm not 100% sure if it's mathematically correct, but it looks more realistic to me. Ah, well, the only sure way would be to draw it in 3d and raycast the light...but that would be too much bother.

[Monsieur OUXX]

On that note : THIS is what I meant about the horiontal plane below the glasses. Simple and big enhancement. (takes exactly 2 seconds to fix)

[markbilly]

Firstly @Monsieur OUXX I will definitely be adding that when I do the galss again, don't worry! You are completely right about it.

@Jim I like that, I was getting stuck in a rut of having the windows indefinitely high. Which was silly.

Right, an explanation of the limitations I have in the design of this room can only be explained with another screenshot, so I hope not too many people read this thread - I'm revealing more and more of the game!

OK, so this is the corridor on the other side of the building, which mirrors this background.


In this vein, I've drawn the background again, taking into account some of the features:


And this is it with the foreground windows (which may not be necessary, in fact).

[markbilly]

What do you reckon then, people? Is this latest design nicer to look at?

[Jim Reed]

Well, it looks okay to me. You could maybe add some texture to the outside walls, and make that bench look less like it's painted on the wall.
So, a nice low opacity noise on the walls, and a shadow beneath that bench would make it look more real. Ofcourse, I can keep finding flaws, and you'll never finish the game that way =).

[markbilly]

Oh, actually there's something I hadn't noticed on the benches - I've covered the edges over with the walls. A shadow, and the ability to see the edges should stop the "painted on" illusion.

Thanks Jim.

[subspark]

This is a fantastic looking game, dude.
Fav'd, bookmarked and cataloged.

Happy 2011, markbilly.
Sparky.

[markbilly]

@subspark

Aw, cheers! That brightened up my day, especially after staring at these same few backgrounds for weeks!

Happy New Year, everyone!