An Innocent Man

[Hudders]

Is the protagonist of your game a good guy? We perhaps prefer to play games that cast us as the good guy because it's somebody we can relate to - everybody's the hero in their own story, nobody really wants to be the villain. When a character is a bad guy, they tend to err on the comical side or have redeeming qualities that let us overlook the out-and-out evil aspects.

Even when a character is depicted as a convicted criminal, half the time they are portrayed as a loveable rogue and the other half innocent of everything they're convicted of. If they are guilty, it's for something petty or at least a justifiable crime, or maybe he's fully repentant of everything he's done.

So why do we hardly ever see a character in a game who is not only evil but a criminal, who has no remorse for his unjustifiable crimes? Is it because an audience can't relate beyond a certain level of malice? Where is that line drawn? Frequently we see games where the protagonist is a robber or a murderer... but what about a rapist or paedophile?

Are there any adventure games where the protagonist is genuinely and seriously evil without any justification for his actions? I can't imagine this is an avenue nobody has been down before.

[Tabata]

Maybe a game like Lucius?      


Edit:
I found the site I was searching for: http://lucius.shivergames.com/

[Hudders]

That looks like a bit of a farce...

There are plenty of games where you go around murdering people, but I'm mainly asking about games where the consequences are treated seriously, where you're asked to play a character who is repulsive and amoral without any redeeming qualities.

[Radiant]

Is this what you mean?

[an Urpney]

Nimdok in "I have no mouth and I must scream" maybe? Quite evil and quite serious if you ask me.

[Fitz]

Nimdok in "I have no mouth and I must scream" maybe? Quite evil and quite serious if you ask me.

Ha! He was the first one I thought of, too! Another that comes to mind is Tommy Vercetti of GTA: Vice City (not an adventure game, I know) - was there anything genuinely good about that guy? He worked with whoever he thought was useful at the time, even of rivaling gangs, like Cubans and Haitians, and all he ever cared for was money and power. Ok, so you could go on vigilante missions - but in order to do that, you had to steal a cop car, which in itself was a crime. And it WAS fun running around shooting and destroying everything, until you had SWAT and tanks chasing you. But of course, this was just pure, mindless fun without much psychology to it.

Back to adventure games, though, think of characters like Malcolm of The Legend of Kyrandia: Book Three. I think silly evil is more fun than just plain good. Some minor flaw of character - be it evil inclinations or, say, clumsiness - makes a character more relatable, because it makes them more human. Because really, is everyone - or anyone - of us average folks crystal clear and perfect? This one time, I talked about Gray (the lovable alien in my game) with Sephiroth (my assistant coder, not the emanation mentioned in Kabbalah), and I said Gray is just me on a bad day, multiplied by ten He's a geek, a smartass, with all sorts of allergies, phobias and manias. He's short-tempered, opinionated and snide. It's all tongue in cheek, and half the time he's a walking cliche - but writing lines for this character is pure fun. Much more than writing a character who's all good, nice and kind.

Also, I think most games leave little space for introspection. Most of the time you just go places and talk to people, and the only chance the character has to redeem themselves in your eyes is through actions, not flashbacks or confessions. I think morally dubious characters are more common in movies/tv. Dexter - a serial killer. T-Bag (of Prison Break) - a paedophile, murderer, con-man, etc. Especially T-Bag is the kind of guy you just love to hate (so much so that actor received multiple letters from people who hated, scorned or even pitied him for what he is). But my favorite bad guy would have to be Cley - the main protagonist of "Physiognomy", by Jeffrey Ford. He's arrogant, self-centered, conceited, disrespectful, sadistic, prone to addictions, etc etc etc. Reading the story as told by him was a guilty pleasure - I felt for the people that had to deal with him, but at the same marvelled at just how twisted  he was. Through the course of the novel he gets the chance to repent and reflect on his life - and he changes. And you know what? He becomes so bland that the two subsequent novels, with him being more and more of a goodie-goodie grow boring. The second one is still quite fun, but the third one's just uhhh...

[Anian]

So why do we hardly ever see a character in a game who is not only evil but a criminal, who has no remorse for his unjustifiable crimes? Is it because an audience can't relate beyond a certain level of malice? Where is that line drawn? Frequently we see games where the protagonist is a robber or a murderer... but what about a rapist or pedophile?

Are there any adventure games where the protagonist is genuinely and seriously evil without any justification for his actions? I can't imagine this is an avenue nobody has been down before.

What you are describing is a psychopath - no remorse for your crimes means you have no morals and you sick in the head. You basically steal and lie all the time in adventure games, usually for a good cause. In 99% of other cases, people usually don't see themselves as the bad guy, especially in their own life, psychopaths on the other hand know what they're doing is wrong but still do it without any remorse...so basically players may never feel the same as the character and thus it would be very hard to stay interested in that game and it would be very hard to do stuff in the game (like solving puzzles) when you don't think like a psychopath.

Besides, how would we not root for the antagonist, since the antagonist would be the police or some brave detective or any kind of hero. Even if you play a serial killer (like in Manhunt) the antagonist is somebody even more evil than you and in the end you are the "good" guy.

[WHAM]

Nothing too constructive, but I just wanted to share this mental image:

"Hannibal Lecter - the adventure game"

Just let that sink in for a while.

[Victor6]

Since good and evil are defined by personal perspective, ultimately everything comes down to the player.

If someone was to make a highly inappropriate game called 'Pedo-adventure', in which you drive around suburban neighbourhoods in an ice-cream van luring unattended kiddies into the back (insert some graphic molestation scenes if you really want to). Ignoring the possibility that this game has been solely created to offend people and attract attention;-

Most people would find it sick, hate the central character, and not play. Some people would find it allows them to live out their dreams and love the central character, turning him from villian to hero.

[Anian]

Nothing too constructive, but I just wanted to share this mental image:

"Hannibal Lecter - the adventure game"

Just let that sink in for a while.

Again, you're not really the ultra bad person (I haven't read the book, but I'll assume you're talking about the 2nd movie, Hannibal, I think that one has the most Hannibal as an active character). You're basically fighting against an even eviler person and corrupted cops etc. Many of the kills in the movie are actually "justified".

Also, as Victor said, it's not very appealing for a lot of people to play a game where you're a pedophile etc.

[an Urpney]

In Grim's Downfall you play as a very disturbed person, but

Spoiler

most of his evil deeds comes from his delusions.

[close]

Harvester makes you play as a person who's

Spoiler

trained to become a serial killer

[close]

Hitman series puts you in role of an assassin. Sure, most of people he's killing are evil (probably because nobody gives a crap about paying lots of money for killing ordinary guys), but there are some innocent people you have to kill for, as example, their clothes to be used as a disguise.