What do you expect from a good GUI?

[Skio]

I was wondering.
What makes a GUI good? I always thought functionality is the secret and I believe you will agree, but what does it mean?
I think of functionality as the minimization of necessary clicks and mouse movement. The LEC GUI, for example, was really versatile and thorough, but a bit uncomfortable. The SIERRA GUI (the default of AGS) is also a bit annoying since it requires a lot of right clicks (especially if you accidentaly pass the desired command).

If I took an example from AGS games, I think the GUI of 'Uncertainty Machine' was the best (I created and use a templatebased on this), with '7 days' following. On the other hand I found 'Devil's Shroud' very annoying.

Another thing: Do you think a status bar (you know, 'USE KEY ON DOOR') helps the player or just makes the game easier?

What's your opinion?
                                                                   Taking GUIs to the next level!

[Mr Jake]

one the best GUIs Ive used so far is the MI3, I liked that, Im working on a fully functioning template right now. I also seem to remember enjoying GK1 GUI, but I cant remember it X_X

[Grundislav]

Any GUI is instantly made 100% better with the addition of a "punch" verb.

Seriously, GK1's GUI was cool cause you had different icons like "open" and "move." They weren't really used to their full potential IMO, but they weren't useless like the smell and taste icons in SQ4/SQ1VGA.

There's a fine balance between having too few options and too many useless ones. Plenty of people find "interact" or "use" too broad a function, but also, how many times did you actually use the "turn on" and "turn off" verbs in The Secret of Monkey Island?

[edmundito]

I don't think that some things are necesarily made better with a different GUI itself because gui is just a graphical representation of what you can do.

I like a visible GUI, one that you can look at your inventory and commands at all times, and something that's not intrusive. That GUI in apprentice is kind of annoying, specially because the Herculean Effort thought it was a great idea to have various exit at the bottom of the screen, where the gui pops up!

Speaking of Interact and Punch, I believe that it needs to be a command that only does what you expect it to do. Like if you click on a door, then it will open the door. If you click on a switch, it will turn on/off the switch, and so on. If you want to punch the door (for some reason or another) then have a punch button.

I'll give you a better example. say you have a football in the ground and you want to "Interact" with it. I, as the player, expect my EGO to pick it up, right? What if he kicks it instead? well, that was unexpected. Wait, I wanted to use the ball to solve some other puzzle! Now what do I do... why did I kick the ball? If you had a kick button you could have been able to kick the ball and pick it up. What if you really needed to kick it? maybe there is a reason why you can't pick it up, like some kid doesn't let you leave the location with the ball or something (in other words, avoid "I can't pick that up!"... unless you're not able to not carry it in your pants, if you're making a physically correct game, and explain why you can't pick it up, please).

[Snarky]

Nice! I was just about to start a similar topic myself.

In his book 'Games Programming' (1984), Eric Solomon describes adventure games as games where the object of the game is to figure out the interface (discover the verbs that perform the desired actions). That was only ever true of the worst text adventures, and the adventure genre has come a long way since then. Still, that kind of thing is what bothers me most about some GUIs:

In my opinion, the primary goal of an adventure game interface should be that the interface is never the reason why the player is stuck.

So an interface should make it easy for people to do what they want to do. That means all features of the GUI should be readily apparent, and it should be clear what they all do (which I don't think was the case for 'The Uncertainty Machine'). If I can't bring up the options panel, or don't know that I can examine items in my inventory, that's not a good GUI. Some games use completely incomprehensible icons instead of command verbs (I seem to remember 'Flight of the Amazon Queen' as one). Very, very bad.

Minimizing number of clicks is less important, but still worthwhile. LEC-style interfaces should always, in my opinion, support keyboard shortcuts. Neat little features like that really smooth out the gaming experience. Here are some I wish were used more often:

* Double-click "walk to" on an exit, and the character goes immediately to the next room. (From 'The Dig')
* If the character is walking somewhere to perform an action, it can be interrupted by giving it a new command. (TSOMI)
* The ability toÃ,  change text speed and skip a line of text with any button and skip a whole conversation with ESC.
* Changing the walk speed. (Sierra)
*(For LEC-style games) Keyboard shortcuts. Default verbs on the right mouse button.
*Replay conversations. (Gabriel Knight)
*Hotspot indication. (Sierra games seem to rely on the absence of this feature to compensate for having fewer interaction modes. That, to me, is cheating. It only makes puzzles harder if players can't find the interactable objects, and hunt-the-pixel is not an interesting challenge.)

I'm undecided about a "show all hotspots" feature (Simon the Sorcerer). It solves the hunt-the-pixel problem, but it also ruins the illusion by showing visually how limited the interaction is.

I do think hotspots and objects should be labeled, though. Especially if the graphics aren't the most brilliant. A status bar doesn't really matter, it doesn't really make the game any more playable, nor does it ruin any puzzles.

Some general principles:

* If things in your inventory change on their own without direct interaction (e.g. ice melting when you walk through a reactor core), the game should explicitly tell you that. The same goes for things appearing in your inventory.
* If there are exceptions to how things work, a demonstration/example of the principle at the beginning of the game is required. (LSL7 with the text-entry.)

I can't think of anything else right now. I would like to hear about other small but important interface innovations.

[Hollister Man]

Also, if you do anything REALLY out of the ordinary, (like 5DaS's stupid right-click save menu) it should be optional.  It really wouldn't have been that hard to implement a minimal sierra OR lec GUI in that game, even if just to be less annoying.  Oh well, Yahtzee never visits anymore anyways.

[Ishmael]

* Double-click "walk to" on an exit, and the character goes immediately to the next room. (From 'The Dig')
* If the character is walking somewhere to perform an action, it can be interrupted by giving it a new command. (TSOMI)
* The ability toÃ,  change text speed and skip a line of text with any button and skip a whole conversation with ESC.

1st. Full Throttle also. I find this very usefull, in big dull rooms especially.
2nd. I'm working on this style, I find it really usefull too.
3rd. I have 1 and 2 in every game I have made, very usefull features as they are. About 3, I'm not sure if you can do this with dialogs which have options in AGS, but read-only dialogs can be skipped, if the author bothers to make it so. It's not hard.

* If there are exceptions to how things work, a demonstration/example of the principle at the beginning of the game is required. (LSL7 with the text-entry.)

Any relation to in-game help?

[Mephistophilis]

I think the Handiest GUI I've ever come across was Lure of the Temptress, Which was like a personalized Verbcoin you clicked on something and to the left up came a Menu with appropriate actions, It allowed you to do a lot more.

[Bagpuss]

Re: status bar

I think a status bar that just tells you what buttons you've pressed ("Use switch", "Use knife on wall") is mostly pointless, but when it has some variety ("Throw switch", "Carve name on wall") it can add to a game, even if only in comedy value (III Spy's "Fumble with locked door" is a favourite of mine).  Either way, it's an optional extra, rather than a necessity, unless your interact/inventory graphics are particularly incomprehensible. 

[Ali]

I think the Handiest GUI I've ever come across was Lure of the Temptress

I didn't like Lure of the Temptress's GUI at all I'm afraid it was over complicated. The only GUI worse than it was the one in that classic of classics Return to Zork. But that game allowed you to throw all of your inventory into a river.

I'm also not a particular fan of the status line except for comedy purposes, as Bagpuss pointed out.

And when Bagpuss goes to sleep ... All his friends take his stuff

I think the most important thing is to make the interface intuitive. A freeware game called TeenAgent has the right mouse button as activate/talk and it feels really unnatural.

[sean]

i think the best AGS interface i've seen so far is the one in 7 days a skeptic. almost every other AGS game i've played isn't anywhere near as good as this.

[Mephistophilis]

I thought not necessarily the actual GUI in LotT but the Idea of it, It had lots of potential to increase the amount of possible actions, Would be murder to script or everything though.

[Radiant]

One thing that I consider very important, is allowing the user to click through text. I remember that I deleted Cirque de Zale because it doesn't allow that, and it gets annoying really fast if you have to wait for the character to finish speaking every time.

Similarly, use StartCutScene whenever the player has to wait more than ten seconds for anything.

[Kinoko]

Huh? o_O Cirque de Zale DOES allow clicking through text.

[deadsuperhero]

I think the best GUI was in the QFG series, because you could sleep, cast spells, run, sneak, tell what time it is, and then all the basic ones like walk, do, look, and talk.
The second best would be the SQ4 GUI, becuase you could taste and smell.

[mätzyboy]

I think the best interface has few options. When you have identified the object you want to interact with you shouldn't need to try different verbs for something to happen. I'm pretty pleased with the GUI I made for my game, the Crypt. left MB = walk, right MB= look/examine and Doubleclick left MB = interact/use. What I could have done better would be to use a status bar indicating what objects were clickable and not instead of just making the pointer flash as I did.

The exit on double click is a sweet function, long transportation times between places sucks arse.

Can anyone explain the benefits of the verb coin GUI? I find it very annoying, atleast when it's made like in FT and MI3 when you have to hold the mouse button pressed. I remember slipping on the mouse button causing "talk to/eat" instead of "pick up/use" and so on. Is there any games using a verb coin that stays up until the mouse leaves the GUI area?

[Radiant]

Huh? o_O Cirque de Zale DOES allow clicking through text.

Oops, I must have meant some other game then. I downloaded about a dozen to try out, then deleted most of them, and am still playing Garfield and Larry Vales.

[Esseb]

mätzyboy, instead of having left click walk and double-left click interact, simply let single left click do both. If you click on nothing you walk, if you click on something you interact. This obviously means you must ditch pointless hotspots such as walls or chairs you can't do anything with anyway, and must provide a feedback so the player knows the mouse is over a hotspot.

Broken Sword 1 and 2 used this method and it works great.

[rtf]

A few related Peeves from me:

    -No Custom Cursors and Character art

No matter how good the rest of it may be, these things seperate it from a great game, and a game that didn't have a lot of effort put into it.

    -Like it's been said before, no-skip speech.

I read really fast.

     -(Big one) Having a long, non-skipable intro before you reach the "Load-Start" screen.

Aaackkk, now I know the real Perils of Poom!

mätzyboy, instead of having left click walk and double-left click interact, simply let single left click do both. If you click on nothing you walk, if you click on something you interact.

matzyboy:
If you want to do what Esseb said,  I made a script for someone that I still have.  I could give it to you if you are interested.

Oops, I must have meant some other game then. I downloaded about a dozen to try out, then deleted most of them, and am still playing Garfield and Larry Vales.

radiant:
Were you thinking of No-Action Jackson?

I think the best GUI is 7DAS.  I'm trying to figure the scripting out right now

[Esseb]

Probably not as you can click through text in it.

[rtf]

Yeah, but it was a little different than most of the games.  I kept on getting confused.  It could have turned off some people.

[mätzyboy]

Esseb: Now when you say it, the walk function is pretty useless. I think I should use left =walk/look, right = use/interact though, 'cause i think interacton should not be something you could make by mistake which would be the case with left click...

Releasethefrogs: Thanx for the nice offer, but the script I have is easily modified to do it, so I'll manage!

And, my verbcoin question still stands...

[Ishmael]

Is there any games using a verb coin that stays up until the mouse leaves the GUI area?

Yes. Try Escape From Lurrilous, and Mard's Personal Little Revenge (which are both based on same template, I have it nearly finished lying somewhere on a not-internet-connectable computer....)

[Hamelkart]

Look at, Walk to, Talk to, Use, Load, Save, Quit and Inventory.

I like simple ones, which, for example Broken Sword games have.

[Anym]

Can anyone explain the benefits of the verb coin GUI? I find it very annoying, atleast when it's made like in FT and MI3 when you have to hold the mouse button pressed. I remember slipping on the mouse button causing "talk to/eat" instead of "pick up/use" and so on. Is there any games using a verb coin that stays up until the mouse leaves the GUI area?

I never found holding down my mouse-button down difficult or annoying, but I see how it could be, especially for users of a touchpad or trackpoint, so I agree that it would probably be best to make verb coins like menus, using one click to bring it up a second click to select the action. Of course, with FT and CMI both being LucasArts games, what's the worst that can happen for using MOUTH instead of HAND?

IMHO there are two main benefits from verb-coins (and related interfaces, like context-sensitive pop-up menus), the first one being speed (even if you selected MOUTH instead of HAND on a hotspot by accident, trying again with the correct action is only a matter of seconds, much faster than both a SIERRA interface, where it would require 3-5 right-clicks, with the risk of skipping the correct verb again, and a SCUMM bar, where you'd have to move you mouse down to the correct verb or find and hit the correct hotkey and then move back to the hotspot to click it), the other one being that it doesn't use much screen space (unlike the SCUMM bar which always consumes the lower 1/4 of the screen where it is locked in place or to a lesser extent the SIERRA interface where the upper 1/8 can be used for graphics, but not for hotspots, because that's where the SCI bar pops up). Basically, those are the same advantadges why Microsoft introduced right-click context-sensitive pop-up menus for nearly everything in Windows 95 and kept them in the following versions.

I also find verb coins to be intuitive, but maybe that's just me and the other common adventure interfaces are already intuitive as well anyway, so isn't that much of a benefit.

As for games "using a verb coin that stays up until the mouse leaves the GUI area", the only one that I can think of at the moment using a verb coin in a strict sense is 7 Days a Skeptic, which combines verbs and inventory into one verb coin (altough "verb box" would probably a better name in this case), the only other games with a "real" verb coin I can think of right now being the two mentioned above, however there are a few games with a pop-up menu that acts similar to that as well (and pop-up-menus are basically, the same as verb coins, only with words in a list instead of icons in a circle), for example Lure of the Temptress, Touché or LSL7 (where is it combined with an optional parser). With menus, most of the time, a second click is required to make the menu vanish again though (moving away from it isn't enough), just like in Windows.

[Bartimaeus]

I also liked the MI3 GUI. Basically, I think a GUI should be smart, as small as possible and cleverly placed. You see, in MI3 a right click brings up the GUI. At least then it doesn't get in the way. In games like 'Apprentice' (which was a really good game) the GUI pops up every time your cursor hovers over the bottom of the screen. This can get REALLY annoying and almost ruins the game for the player.
The GUI should be a well thought out factor in making a game because it can really add or take from the overall gameplay.

[Phemar]

i love the lec gui. eg foa, mi2, dott. it's just so practical and it works, mate.

[Bartimaeus]

Good point Zor,
I agree.
Um... lec?

[Phemar]

lucasarts entertainment company, n00b...

[Bartimaeus]

Bite me Zor.

[qptain Nemo]

IMHO, good gameplay MUST use keyboard. The great examples of old Legend games and Broken Sword 3 show how comfortable interface could be in absolutely different ways.

[Ubel]

Let's take Runaway for example. The cursor mode is always walk mode IF the cursor isn't over a hotspot when it turns to look, use or talk mode. And you can swich the mode only if the cursor is over a hotspot. This is pretty useful and easy. And, you don't need a gui!

[Abisso]

I think that every single semplification of the interaction system goes directly against the "what you want to do-what the games make you do".
The most precise is obviously the text parser, even if not all players (and not anymore, anyway) like it. The MI3 interface instead, is the most far from that one, preferring user-friendlyness to a more precise system.

Personally I think that a "what's under the cursor" gui is absolutely necessary in a cursor based game, otherwise you'll not be sure if you clicked in the right spot or not. Even adding crosshair isn't enough for me, but could be the only other solution to the problem.

Personally, I created this system:

just one cursor, left clicking to walk, right-clicking to pop up a window with the possible interactions (always the same for every hotspot, unluckily). I used the ProcessClick function to make it work properly.
This approach at least solves the problem of the screen-space occupied by the GUI, and the need to cicle every cursor with the right click.

I can also suggest (if you want to use the standard Sierra interface) to at least  enable mouse_wheel scrolling, adding the possibility to cycle it also backwards (it's a very simple script). This helps a lot.

[DanClarke]

As the old saying goes, 'the best technology is invisible', so a good GUI for me should be intuitive, simple, self explanatory, and functional over any style. I find that SamnMax's GUI is the best that i've used in an adventure in my opinion, its all of the things ive listed, with the added bonus of giving more on screen room. (ok so sierra did technically pioneer this one, but SamNMax did it how it should be done )

This is also the GUI type ill be using for TLOTLL.

[voh]

Am I the only one who really, really, REALLY dug the Beneath a Steel Sky interface? That GUI is my daddy and I will use it in whatever project I manage to create

I've got 2 one-room demo thingies ready with a working BASS-style interface, and I absolutely love it

[What a loser.]

Gabriel Knight 1 had good GUIs? What? Those GUIs were horrible required too much thinking and too many clicks to try and get the right one. I think Monkey Island 3 has an amazing GUI. I like the  Quest for Glory 3/4 GUIs too they were perfect for the game and I loved them because they didnt require too much of trying all kings of clicks.

[=The=Brat=]

Yeh, i like BASS's stle. Anyone here played Lure Of The Tempress. Great GUI

[PsychicHeart]

it has to have a "Go back to Main Menu" option*1. And without a save/load game option, it's pretty crap*2. I dunno, but if it's a mind game than it probably should have a Hints thing for idiots. And finally, a Quit Game*3.

*1: Unless the game doesn't have one.
*2: Unless the game is Arcade or only has about two or three rooms.
*3: Unless a Main Menu option is there, and the Main Menu has a Quit Game object.

[AlbinoPanther]

when we look on the older games BASS is our choice(left click right clict realy do the trick) . And Discworld with animated speech icons, that is realy funny, and it is in the spirit of Pratchet books.
When we mention a spirit, we mean that every game(GUI for it) need to be in same mood(a lausy GUI can ruin a grate game).

Nowdays Black mirror is realy good example of an excelent GUI.

But on the other hand LEC GUI is pure with spirit that we mention, is DOTT true DOTT without a LEC GUI, NO it is not.

GUI and GAME in the same style and mood that is what we need.

[Lordhoban]

For the GUI I put together, I made sure to seperate the Interact from Pick-Up options, but for the most part, it is akin to the sierra interface except that all the pointers animate over hotspots (and of course, all the cursors are custom). I hate games that don't do this, forcing you many times to click all over the screen just to find something. On that note, I hate pixel hunting.

I remember the BASS interface being straight forward and to  the point, along with the Grim Fandango interface. And I also really like the 7 Days GUI, so that's one more vote for it.

I think what the GUI offers should be dependent on the game, but redundant options should be cut down unless they serve a consistent purpose (the Lucasarts verb games, for example. You could easily combine TURN ON/OFF into one). While I liked having options, I think the Lucasarts verb interface gave too many. There's always a balance to be maintained as well as logic. Otherwise, it can get frustrating.

And yes, after playing Space Quest 2 recently, I have reaffirmed how much I dislike text parsers. You either have to be on the same wavelength as the designer, or be able to read their minds. It seems like a good idea, but in practice, it leaves for way too many options open ended.

[SmootH]

Good GUIs are like ninjas. They can execute complex commands in a few key strokes and there's no mucking about. They do the job and then they leave.

the best GUI would be one that you don't even notice is there.

Personally the GUIs in most games take away from the expereince because their either invasive,  counter-intuitive and sloppy.

[an AGS rookie]

I Think a good GUI should reflect the mood and atmosphere of the game. The GUI in MI3 is a good example which had a skull-and cross icon for looking and a parrot head for talking, keeping in touch with the pirate-theme. It should also allow you to try at least a few different commands on each hotspot as it increases the feeling for the player that he/she can do what they want and not simply what the game wants them to do. This also opens for possibilities to let the player try some crazy/inapproriate actions (such as talk to toilet or pick up elephant) and then reward them with a funny comment or animation. (in a game where it,s appropriate to try such actions of course) Of course the GUI must also be easy and fast to handle.

....I can also suggest (if you want to use the standard Sierra interface) to at least  enable mouse_wheel scrolling, adding the possibility to cycle it also backwards (it's a very simple script). This helps a lot.

Actually that very same idea has crossed my mind. It would be a really handy feature i think. 

IMHO, good gameplay MUST use keyboard. The great examples of old Legend games and Broken Sword 3 show how comfortable interface could be in absolutely different ways.

Not necesarilly i think but i would probably be a god idea to make keyboard-hotkeys for an adventure-game


And about the statusbar, i think it helps to at least display a name of the hotspot the cursor currently is over. Those names can also sometimes be amusing and even change during the game(for example you use TALK on SALESMAN and find him to be a very annoying person, that hotspot could then change to VERY ANNOYING SALESMAN) which adds yet another little touch. For those players that think a statusbar makes the game to easy they could always be given the possibility to toggle it on/off.