Star Wars Movies

Started by Matchew, Tue 22/02/2005 15:03:06

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Blackthorne

Larry Kasdan writes great dialogue.

Lucas writes good stories, not great screenplays.  I can agree that the dialogue is stilted in the prequels.

Bt
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DGMacphee

I would have prefered to see what would have happened to Lucas if he directed Apocalypse Now as he intended instead of following the Star Wars path.
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Blackthorne

Quote from: DGMacphee on Thu 24/02/2005 00:20:23
I would have prefered to see what would have happened to Lucas if he directed Apocalypse Now as he intended instead of following the Star Wars path.

Well, I know that Kurtz would have had the highest midichlorian count the US Army had ever seen.

Bt
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PaulSC

Quote from: DGMacphee on Thu 24/02/2005 00:20:23
I would have prefered to see what would have happened to Lucas if he directed Apocalypse Now as he intended instead of following the Star Wars path.

Me too. Based on everything I've read on the subject it would've ended up almost completely different - supposedly he was planning on filming the thing in a realistic documentary style, and was pretty disappointed when Coppola took over and made it all psychedelic and dreamlike. His vision was so different maybe that it might have been worth him tackling a war film of his own? Probably too late for that now, of course. His premature retirement really was quite a shame I think.

By the way, has anyone ever noticed that (as far as I can see) Lucas has never in his life been creatively involved a film that was set at the time it was made? That says quite a bit about the guy, I think, though i'm not sure whether or not what it says is good or bad.

Anarcho

I pretty much agree with most of the sentiments already discussed, I really dislike E1 and I kinda like E2, but neither can stand up to the originals. 

Problems with E1--pod racing?  What a waste of time.  C3P0 made by Anakin?  I agree, it was forced.  Bad acting--endemic!  Most of all---the CGI.  I just looks fake.  I remember the interviews on the "new" original trilogy vhs tapes and they talk about how they built ships out of model battleships and how much it sucked...but honestly, I still think it looks great.  Those opening shots of the star destroyers always gets me. 

Problems with E2--the writing.  It's just awful.  I feel like the dialogue for Anakin and Amidala was written for actors who speak with British accents...but when it's delivered by mediocre American actors it comes off as awful (ok, maybe Natalie Portman isn't mediocre, but she can be).  Again with the CGI...pretty awful at times.  Still, I think this is a much better movie.  The scene with Yoda in the end is classic, and Ewan McGregor is a really great actor and really carries the film. 

I'm definitely looking forward to the final prequel, but I've really been disappointed with the prequels so far.


Matchew

I'd like to add to blackthorne's conclusion that Lucas writes good stories and can't do screenplays, and that is that Lucas' directorial skills are not very good either, if you anylise ep 5 and 6 and, then compare them to the others, the interaction and banter between the characters is a lot better than the other films' poor contributions. I also agree with the point that the old (chemically based) sfx were more appealing,  as regardless of it's age, still looks better than any CGI sequence will ever look.
I would also like to add a very appropriate line to Ep1;
Padmé: You're a slave?
Anakin: I'm a person and my name's Anakin Skywalker, and i'm and American!
(please watch this scene again and it will make sense)
i really am ashamed of lucas for creating Jar Jar Binks, I mean what the hell was he thinking? Chewbacca never seemed to annoy the pants off of me, so why did lucas make jar jar so damn annoying? >:(

Now for some miscellaneous questions:

1 Why does anakin age but Padmé doesn't?

2 how come the Empire weren't taking control of the galaxy sooner?

3 What do the trade federation actually trade?

4 How come Bevel Lemelisk wasn't in ep 2?

5 What the hell had Jar Jar got to do with anything?
matchew has spoken.............. well sort of

Blade

For a starter, I like SW but I'm not a huge fan. I've seen OT inly two times. Phantom Menace - never and from what i heard i missed nothing. I've seen Ep2 at least two times and it wasn't as good as the prequels still it may not be such a bad movie. What is the biggest drawback of the proquels it's simply that they ARE prequels. If there was no OT or books then more than half of the accusations would not exist. Now don't think of me as a defender of the prequels. They are so much worse than the OT. And this is why the fans complain so much about them.
I'd like Episodes 7,8,9 to be made but I just can't see them without Ford or Hammil who are too old for it. Looking at the prequels I don't even think I'd like these ones done (and I know Lucas won't make them ever). 
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Darth Mandarb

Quote from: Matchew on Thu 24/02/2005 13:39:35
i really am ashamed of lucas for creating Jar Jar Binks, I mean what the hell was he thinking? Chewbacca never seemed to annoy the pants off of me, so why did lucas make jar jar so damn annoying? >:(
Should every single alien race/species/creature in the galaxy be cool and smooth?  Sit back and sip Colt45 with Lando?  That's not even conceivable ... I applaud him for making Jar Jar so annoying (to some).  It didn't really bother me that much. 

Quote1 Why does anakin age but Padmé doesn't?
Because Anakin was 9 in Phantom Menace, and 19 in Attack of the Clones.  Padme was 14-15 in Phantom, and 24-25 in Clones.  I do think she looks much older and more mature in Clones:
Episode I Padme
Episode II Padme
I think the better question would be; Why doesn't Padme look younger in Phantom?

Quote2 how come the Empire weren't taking control of the galaxy sooner?
Palpatine/Sidious (Sith Lord) conceived of a way to kill all the Jedi and take over the galaxy.   These things don't happen over night.

Quote3 What do the trade federation actually trade?
"The Trade Federation was a consortium of merchants and transportation providers that effectively controlled shipping throughout the galaxy." Source: Star Wars Databank

Think of 'trade' not as, "I'll give you this for that".  It's like this, " The people working in or associated with a business or industry:"  The people working in or associated with a business or industry: a textile-exporting publication for the trade. " : Source: Definition @ Dictionary.com

Quote4 How come Bevel Lemelisk wasn't in ep 2?
Bevel Lemelisk was conceived entirely in the EU.  He wasn't a creation of George Lucas.  Though the EU is sanctioned/approved by LucasFilm, George has said on several occasions that he's writing the prequels with no influence from the EU, and that he hasn't read most of it.  Personally I think he threw stuff into the prequels to debunk the EU, like Midichlorians, and Jango Fett.

Quote5 What the hell had Jar Jar got to do with anything?
Again, you really shouldn't question things like this until you've seen episode III.  A very clear reason for Jar Jar to exists might be revealed.   Personally I find it hilarious that Jar Jar, in a way, started the Clone Wars by granting Palpatine Emergency Powers.  I laughed my ass off about that one.  Gave all the whiny bashers something back.

TheYak

I'm in disagreement concerning Jar-jar.  He doesn't seem like an annoying character meant to flesh out the world.  Perhaps he will play some greater role but he seems deliberately inserted in order to appeal to the kiddies.  That's part of what I disliked about the prequels - ep. IV-VI were PG but seemed to cater to a PG-13/Adult audience.  Here, they've gone PG-13 (I'm a tad too lazy to verify this, maybe PG) and it seems like a PG movie.  I could easily imagine the whole thing in Disney-style animation without much loss of any of the courser elements of the movie. 

As for Lucas' directing, he did THX-1138 as a student film, found some backing/actors to jump it up a notch in prestige (Robert Duvall is quite good, even then) and found critical (though not audience) acclaim.  You can very much see how THX-1138 influenced the first Star Wars films.  Later, he directed American Grafitti, which is as close to 'present time' as he got and it found wide audience acceptance, partially due to exploration of America's culture (and filmed a decent portion in my home town).  He came up with a good story for a pop-culture Sci-fi (could've taken place in any era, really, it's a space opera mostly), had some help and churned out wildly successful movies.  He made sci-fi palatable to the US audiences who hadn't had much indoctrination to sci-fi and were ready for something a bit different (the 70's weren't the most interesting of movie times). 

He got lucky and had good success with his franchise, even gathering a lot of youth support for Ewok Adventures (significantly darker than any of the prequels), the Ewok cartoons, and - of course - toys and t-shirts galore (I've since lost my glow-in-the-dark r2d2 pajamas).  Now, he relies upon the franchise in order to stay involved in the movie business.  He's got film re-releases out the yin-yang and jumps with both feet back into the Star Wars universe.  Hell, the man lives out at Skywalker Ranch in Lucas Valley and has company 4th of July parties out at Ewok lake (ego-stroking much?).  His company continues to be involved in gaming, and movie special effects (check the ILM website, you'd be surprised how many current films Lucas is involved in SFX-wise), while any failure or shortcoming causes the company as a whole to revert to "safe" territory - the Star Wars franchise.  Critique Lucas all you want (hell, I have) but he takes very good care of his employees (around 2,500 or so) and has kept Lucasfilm privately-held while doing so - that's damned amazing in this day and age.

Hollowman

I have very mixed feelings about the prequels so far. I have no knowledge of the EU at all so I'm not biased towards things fitting into the whole mythology except perhaps fitting into the OT. I actually enjoyed the two prequels the first time I saw them, but they lost their appeal with later viewings, mainly because of some patchy elements which really seemed to stand out as being out of place or forced. One thing that really struck me was the fact that Jar-Jar was pretty much missing from the second movie. This almost seemed as though Lucas was doing what the fans wanted (since almost everybody hated the character) and making it up as he went along.

Personally, I actually liked Jar-Jar. Yes, he was annoying sometimes, but he grew on me and he had his moments. And I enjoyed the Pod racing. I thought that was one of the better segments of the movie.

Overall, I'm not looking forward to EP3 as much as I was looking forward to EP1 but I will still go and watch it, and I'll probably enjoy it :)

Las Naranjas

As for basing stuff in his own time period, note that most of his films are heavily immersed in the "homage" ethic. I won't go into the good/bads of making that kind of film, but if you're basing the best part of your work on something else, [for example Buck Rogers, Dune and Foundation in Star Wars' case or the film serials and comic books from the 1930's through  to the early 50's in Indiana Jones' case], you'd probably need a time machine to pay homage to something happening right now.

But hey, Tarantino's "homages" are all present day.
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[delete}

#31

Han Solo Adventures

Darth Mandarb

I'm less surprised by the necropost than I am by my defense of the prequels in this thread.

Oh how times have changed!

Mandle

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 18/04/2015 22:50:25
I'm less surprised by the necropost than I am by my defense of the prequels in this thread.

Oh how times have changed!

HAHAHAHA!!! Yeah...the magic wore off fairly fast eh?

I was the same way...It's like I brainwashed myself into having fun when I saw the movies at the theater, maybe watched them again once on DVD, and haven't felt the urge to watch them ever again really...

My mates and I have the same plan probably many people have this year to sit down and do a ep.1 through to ep.6 marathon, having never watched the entire series in that order, and I'm kinda dreading the first 9 hours or however long it takes to watch the extended versions of ep.1 ~ ep.3...

But at least I know the second half of the screening will be fun...

Joseph DiPerla

#34
I have been waiting for Star Wars games for years from AGS. Darth Mandarb, I still remember Rebel Spy... Also there was that Shadows of the Empire game too... I hope with the new movies and series, someone gets the jrge to revive these...

Dont forget this one either:http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/game/1181/
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Monsieur OUXX

Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on Sun 19/04/2015 01:28:32
Dont forget this one either:http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/game/1181/
Hahaha! Shaila is that one game maker who always finishes her games! Bless her, she's so productive.

I'm actually surprised that there haven't been more star Wars games made with AGS along the years. Seriously : nerd/geek + video games + star wars = star wars AGS games. Yet, there are more harry potter games than star wars games ;) Maybe if Lucasarts had released a successful SW point n' click game back in the days, then there would be plenty of fam games nowadays, just like there are Indy fangames flourishing. Maybe SW is stuck in the arcade/action genre for no reason other than historical.
 

Ibispi

@Monsieur OUXX, I really wanted to make a Star Wars game once, but I thought I couldn't be able to do it because I don't have any rights on Star Wars and that you can get sued by LucasArts/Disney if you do something like that... Or was I wrong? Is it possible to make a fan Star Wars game without getting into any trouble?

Snarky

Actually, Star Wars is (or at least used to be, before it got bought by Disney), one of the few big media franchises that condoned fan works, as long as it was strictly non-commercial and clearly marked as non-official. You'd be less likely to a cease & desist order for a Star Wars fan game than for almost any other universe.

Darth Mandarb

Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on Sun 19/04/2015 01:28:32I have been waiting for Star Wars games for years from AGS. Darth Mandarb, I still remember Rebel Spy...

I have always intended to revisit Rebel Spy.

Interestingly enough; I recently became aware of an official spin-off film Disney will be making, entitled Rogue One, which is all about how the Rebel Spies procured the Death Star plans and delivered them to the Rebellion. 

If you read up on it, and then read my Rebel Spy GiP thread (from way back in 2003)... well I think somebody at Disney might just have read my production thread.  I'm not making any accusations of course, it could be coincidence.

However I'm not really anxious to tackle the subject anymore now that LucasFilm has ripped my idea off :D.

Quote from: Snarky on Sun 19/04/2015 11:22:25Actually, Star Wars is (or at least used to be, before it got bought by Disney), one of the few big media franchises that condoned fan works, as long as it was strictly non-commercial and clearly marked as non-official.

Yeah I'm really curious to see how Disney handles the fan-made stuff.  Disney protects their IP pretty aggressively.

Misj'

#39
Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Mon 20/04/2015 15:19:01Yeah I'm really curious to see how Disney handles the fan-made stuff.  Disney protects their IP pretty aggressively.
Actually, in my experience, Disney is one of the more lenient when it comes to their IP (within certain limits of course). When I look - for example - at cake decoration, then they tend to allow (or possibly 'not care') about people making cakes of their characters, even when these cakes are sold. You are also not likely to get into any trouble when you give a (paid) workshop* on how to create such characters.

Of course these are all small-scale examples, but so is most fan-art (games, etc.) So I really don't expect any problems on that front (for the time being).


* of course if you put it in a book, or sell the workshop online, then I expect things to be quite different.


EDIT: of course it will probably also depend on whether it's a market they themselves are in or want to enter.

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